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Oiling the wheels of power in Iraq



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Published Date: 20 June 2008
FOUR western oil companies are in the final stages of negotiating contracts that will return them to Iraq – 36 years after losing their oil concession to nationalisation under Saddam Hussein.
Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP – the original partners in the Iraq Petroleum Company, which had a virtual monopoly on all oil exploration in Iraq from 1925 to 1961 – are in talks with Iraq's oil ministry.

Along with Chevron and a number of smaller oil companies, they are seeking no-bid contracts to service Iraq's largest fields.

The deals, expected to be announced on 30 June, lay the foundation for the first commercial work for the major companies in Iraq since the invasion in 2003.

The no-bid contracts are unusual for the industry, and the firms are preferred to 40 other contractors from Russia, China and India.

It was an article of faith for many in the Arab world and among the British and American public that the United States – with the UK in tow – had gone to war in Iraq precisely to secure the oil wealth these contracts seek to extract.

In one memorable incident from the invasion, heavily armed US forces surrounded the oil ministry in Baghdad as a primary objective – yet the country's national museum went unprotected and many of its treasures were subsequently looted.

Sensitive to the impression that they were profiting from the war and already under pressure because of record high oil prices, senior officials from two of the companies, speaking only on the condition that they were not identified, said they were helping Iraq rebuild its decrepit oil industry.

The Iraqi government's stated goal in inviting back the major companies is to increase oil production by half a million barrels per day by attracting modern technology and expertise to the oilfields.

The revenue would be used for reconstruction, although the Iraqi government has had trouble spending the billions of dollars in oil revenues it now has, in part because of bureaucratic inefficiency.

Marnie Funk, a Shell spokeswoman, hinted at the kind of work the companies might be engaged in saying: "We can confirm that we have submitted a conceptual proposal to the Iraqi authorities to minimise current and future gas flaring in the south through gas gathering and utilisation.

"The contents of the proposal are confidential."

While small, the deals hold great promise for the companies.

"The bigger prize everybody is waiting for is development of the giant new fields," Leila Benali, an authority on Middle East oil at Cambridge Energy Research Associates, said.

The current contracts, she added, were a "foothold" in Iraq for companies striving for these longer-term deals.

The no-bid deals are structured as service contracts. The companies will be paid for their work, rather than offered a licence to the oil deposits. As such, they do not require the passage of an oil law setting out terms for competitive bidding. The legislation has been stalled by disputes between Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish parties over revenue sharing and other conditions.

"These are not actually service contracts," Benali said. "They were designed to bring western companies with experience managing large projects into Iraq."

Assem Jihad, the oil ministry spokesman, said the ministry chose companies it was comfortable working with under the charitable memorandum of understanding agreements, and for their technical prowess. "Because of that, they got the priority," he said.

In all cases but one, the same company that had provided free advice to the ministry for work on a specific field was offered the technical support contract for that field, one of the companies' officials said.

The exception is the Russian company Lukoil, claims a Saddam-era contract for the field and had been providing free training to Iraqi engineers, but a consortium of Chevron and Total, a French company, was offered the contract.

Industry tainted by colonialism

THE INVOLVEMENT of Western oil companies in Iraq remains a highly sensitive one, bringing as it does a baggage of colonialism and exploitation.

The Iraq Petroleum Company – until 1929 called Turkish Petroleum Company – was an oil company jointly owned by some of the world's largest oil companies, including Anglo-Persian Oil Company, the forerunner of BP, Royal Dutch/Shell, the American giant Standard Oil and the French company CFP, now Total.

The Iraq Petroleum Company had virtual monopoly on all oil exploration in Iraq from 1925 to 1961.

It has originally been proposed that Iraqis should be allowed to own up to 20 per cent of the business, and to their credit the British government lobbied for this, yet the oil companies themselves were against such an idea and successfully fought it off.

IPC retained its monopoly of exploration and development in Iraq until 1961, when the revolutionary government of General Qassem nationalised 99.5 per cent of its concession areas.

In 1971, the Iraqi government nationalised the remaining interests into the Iraq National Oil Company.

This resulted in major increases in revenues for the Baath party government under Saddam Hussein.

Given the current fears about oil production and reserves, Iraq remains an attractive country for large Western companies. David Fyfe, a Middle East analyst at the International Energy Agency, a Paris-based group that monitors oil production for the developed countries, said he believed that Iraq's output could increase from its current 2.5 million barrels a day to about three million, though it would probably take longer than the six months the oil ministry currently estimates.

Mr Fyfe's organisation estimated that repair work on existing fields could bring Iraq's output up to roughly four million barrels per day within several years. After new fields are tapped, Iraq is expected to reach a plateau of about six million barrels per day, Mr Fyfe said, which could suppress current world oil prices.

The full article contains 970 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 June 2008 10:25 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Iraq
 
1

Caratacus,

West Britain 20/06/2008 15:01:04
!
2

Caratacus,

West Britain 20/06/2008 15:01:42
Ah!The pay off!
3

bill2,

20/06/2008 15:13:43
Mission accomplished. (G.W. Bush)
4

mike - across the pond,

payoff? 20/06/2008 15:39:49
can you read?

"The no-bid deals are structured as service contracts. The companies will be paid for their work, rather than offered a licence to the oil deposits."

or did you just choose to ignore... so the "payoff"... well I guess not, eh?
5

Gere,

Scotland 20/06/2008 15:47:52
The Iraqis are going to be cheated once more by the American colonisers once they sign away their oil!
6

Caratacus,

West Britain 20/06/2008 16:04:10
#4
My apologies, mike-across the pond! So this is a not-for-profit deal, huh?
7

Linus,

at arm's length 20/06/2008 16:19:22
Neither the Iraqi citisens nor we the general public will benefit from any of this.
8

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 20/06/2008 16:46:46
4# Yeah right! Try reding this from todays Guardian..

"The deals, known as service contracts, are unusual, said Greg Mutitt, co-director of Platform, an oil industry research group. "Normally such service contracts are carried out by specialist companies ... The majors are not normally interested in such deals, preferring to invest in projects that give them a stake in ownership of extracted oil and the potential for large profits. The explanation is that they see them as a stepping stone..."

He said the companies' lawyers had been insisting "on extension rights under which each company would get first preference on any future contract for the field on which it has worked".
9

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 20/06/2008 17:44:25
Gere...name our colonies please. I'm at a loss..
The US has not colonized; as I said before..the only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those who did not return.
10

mike - across the pond,

caratacus.... 20/06/2008 18:50:48
you gone dopey pal?

did anybody say these contracts wouldnt turn a profit?

what they SAID was that they would be paid for their services (and by any business model I have ever seen) that "paid" includes a profit...

please get a clue...
11

mike - across the pond,

methalions 20/06/2008 18:54:39
well if you are all about giving lands back to original inhabitants...

being that you are a neandertal, you should immediately go to your local government and demand they immediately vacate YOUR ancestral lands...

native americans LOST... get over it
12

Encarta,

20/06/2008 19:07:22
Hell's teeth! Lager price inflation is running about 33% a month!

36 cans of Tennants was £15 last time I looked - today it's 18 for a tenner!

It's out of control, I tell you!
13

57Nomad,

california 20/06/2008 19:26:19
#10 Methalions

Meth said:

"Native Americans"

Meth, how dare you use such an insensitive and Eurocentric name. You have got your nerve coming on this forum and hurling out these racist comments. As you well know the name "America" is a tribute to Christopher Columbus' cartographer, the Italian, Amerigo Vespucci. This is your smarmy and ignorant response to Lynne's question? I've got news for you, Jasper, the Indians all know about Christopher Columbus and Amerigo. Here's some advice should you ever visit this country. Don't talk to any Indians because you will surely say something as condescending and offensive to them as you have on this forum. It won't go well for you. And speaking of Indians, whose empire was India part of?

This is your show of moral superiority? Do you have a passport? I doubt it. You certainly aren't very knowledgeable about life out side your little thatched roof village. Now, show us our empire please? Unless you can do that then you and the gerbil lover should apologize to Lynne. Empire, indeed! Native Americans, indeed!
14

James Donald,

Newbridge 20/06/2008 19:33:50
#9 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - "The US has not colonized" - In 1776 he USA consisted of 13 states - it colonised ost of the other 37 states between then and 1959.
The USA also has de facto colonies such as Guam, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. A full list of US controlled territories is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States#Incorporated_organized_territories_2
Very different from your clap trap:
"the only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those who did not return".
15

57Nomad,

california 20/06/2008 19:34:45
#2 Cara

Cara said:

"Ah!The pay off!"

If that's how you want to view it, that's cool. Everyone is entitled to his opinion and should be able to express with as much passion as they can muster and do so with no fear of reprisal by the government.

I find your comments puzzling for that very reason. The Iraqis now have a freely elected civil society where they recently lived in fear of their lives for uttering so much as a single uncomplimentary word about the late dictator. Why do you think you're entitled to these rights but others, such as our brothers and sisters in Iraq are not? Why are you so special?

The "payoff" my friend is that millions of our brothers and sisters have been liberated.
16

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 21/06/2008 00:12:32
#17

"The "payoff" my friend is that millions of our brothers and sisters have been liberated".

...OF THEIR LIVES!
17

Dáithí,

San Jose 21/06/2008 00:31:56
57Nomad -

Anti-interventionists speak freely and never utter so much as a single uncomplimentary word about the late dictator either!

- They only speak uncomplimentary words of those that removed him so that Iraqi oil could be produced, shipped, refined and sold - and those 'profits' could shared among the Iraqi people instead of Uday, Qusay, and pals.

Socialists sure have a funny way of looking at things.
18

Nancy "Stretch" Pelosi,

San Francisco 21/06/2008 01:28:23
#3 bill2 the terrorist apologist

I see you are still a terrorist appeaser and derelict. Yes Bush did tell the crew on the Navy Carrier that was returning to California that their mission was accomplished. Idiots misconstrue the meaning all the time to try to help the terrorists.
19

57Nomad,

california 21/06/2008 02:13:46
#18 lh

lh said:

"The "payoff" my friend is that millions of our brothers and sisters have been liberated".
...OF THEIR LIVES!"

Here LHTT states his priorities. Life first, liberty when convenient. There is a contrary view.

"Live free or die" The official state motto of New Hampshire. Here is yet another way of saying it and I hope that even those who are on the other side would take a look at.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?noframes;read=121128

Don't miss.
20

57Nomad,

21/06/2008 02:23:18
go to the video window and hit the play button
21

57Nomad,

21/06/2008 02:23:19
go to the video window and hit the play button
22

Dáithí,

San Jose 21/06/2008 04:00:20
So many things have changed, 57Nomad.

It used to be: "Better Dead than Red"

Now it's - 'Better Red than gainfully employed'

It used to be: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"

Todays response - "HUH?? ARE YOU KIDDING?? WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME??"
23

Linus,

atvarm's length 21/06/2008 07:44:55
#9 Lynne,
You must be either a mental patient or work on a mental ward, for you're obviously delusional due to some kind of drug administered to you. James Donald at post #16 set you straight but I see that you haven't come back and corrected him, therefore he must be right.

57Nomad,
You are the biggest loser on this planet, and your sister Lynne isn't far behind. It's the likes of you that give all Americans such a bad name, we call that guilty by association. You 57Nomad, try to sound educated, where in fact it is obvious that you have no clue about anything, and you better talk to your dealer and tell him that you want your money back. Those drugs have turned you into the babbling idiot that you are, and all here will testify to that.
24

bill2,

21/06/2008 09:42:21
20
Nancy "Stretch" Pelosi

USA Empire extended
Fortresses built for further campaigns
Oil secured
Millions of opponents murdered
Former friend Saddam silenced
Megabucks for construction and armament companies
Blair rewarded
Neocon dream fulfilled

Mission accomplished!
25

Lord Killwillie,

Killwillie Castle 21/06/2008 11:25:18
#26

What world do you live in?
26

Ardanaiseig,

Argyll 21/06/2008 13:27:14
25 Linus

You socialists and terrorists always show your true colours when you are loosing an argument.
27

Linus,

at arm's length 21/06/2008 13:55:40
#28 Ardanaiseig,
Listen you two bit moron. You and the rest of the Bush supporters are the true terrorists, that and the fact that you condone torture, that is enough for me to label you as a moron. It is pretty sad when you and the likes of you support an illegal invasion and brag about all the damage and suffering you have caused the innocent citisens of Iraq. But you don't care, for you have all your luxuries, modern day conveniences, and you get to hide behind the bullies better known as the US, and that makes you a two bit moron. Time for you to get a life as well, jerk.
28

Biker,

Ayr 21/06/2008 14:50:23
57 Nomad. Persumably you are talking avbout the thousands of Iraqis who have lost their lives since this fiasco started. Not to mention the millions of dollars given to Haliburton and the rest of the trough grubbers for the supposed rebuilding of the country.
As for thefreely elected "puppet" government, who really pulls the strings I wonder?
29

Regina,

NH, USA 21/06/2008 15:01:19
28 Ardanaiseig

Yes, Linus is an A-Hole.
30

Linus,

at arm's length 21/06/2008 15:45:46
#31 Regina,
Like the saying goes, "It takes one to know one".
31

Hemingway,

Ayr 21/06/2008 16:58:01
31 Regina,NH, USA

On other threads Linus only attacks us and the USA and defends Saddam's regime. It tells you a lot about Linus.
32

Linus,

at arm's length 21/06/2008 17:19:46
#33 Hemingway,
You're a liar. Nowhere have I defended Saddam, and you know it. Why is it that you haven't got the balls to address me directly you coward?
Our government along with the Bush Administration are ruthless war criminals, especially Bush who condones and justifies torture, and that's what gets me. You and your useless co-commentators here that support that, are the real terrorist appeasers, and you know that you are, but are hiding in the safety of your rooms and just accuse the real concerned citisens like me. Time for you to get a life as well you useless moron.
33

Gere,

Scotland 21/06/2008 17:48:26
Post #18
Lets have the truth, Queensland

You could also add to your list of what the Americans liberated the Iraqis from and wil do in the future: they will also be liberated from all those burdensome barrels of oil simply spoiling under the Iraqi soil.

America has already liberated them from having a government that does not meet with American approval or endorsement, they have been liberated from the bothersome issue of sovereignty.

American Mercenaries such as Blackwater in addition to American military personnel are able to murder Iraqis with impunity, the Iraqis have been relieved of the onerous task of having jurisdiction over the small and insignificant issue of the murder of innocent, unarmed civilian Iraqi citizens of the American colony of Iraq. Of course American militery personnel always tell the world they have killed "Suspected Iraqi Militants"

The world is gullible enough to believe these pronouncements!
34

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 21/06/2008 18:22:06
Linus...or whichever one of your damn aliases...I do go to bed and I do work in my husband's office from time to time..
he didn't set me straight..these are territories that were either ceded to us or bought.
I haven't had the time to check his link yet, but he mentioned Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, and Guam.
35

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 21/06/2008 18:25:30
Linus

I have little or nothing to do with James Donald..and he knows it..
As far as you are concerned...keep up the name calling..that's all you know..

You are probably one of the 47% of Scots who are going thru dementia.
36

James Donald,

Newbridge 21/06/2008 18:53:10
#37 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - The story from the Scotsman was:
"ALMOST half of Scots are affected by dementia. A study found that 47 per cent of people north of the Border – about 2.4 million – have a close friend, family member or someone else who is affected"
Rather different from the rubbish you post as a smear:
"You are probably one of the 47% of Scots who are going thru dementia".
Only a moral degenerate would use something like this as a put down, but then since you seldom have a coherent or sane argument you often resort to such disgusting tactics.
37

bill2,

21/06/2008 19:21:20
Lord Killwillie,
Killwillie Castle 21/06/2008 11:25:18
#26

"What world do you live in?"

The real one.
38

57Nomad,

california 21/06/2008 23:38:23
#25 Minus

Minus said:

"You are the biggest loser on this planet, and your sister Lynne isn't far behind. It's the likes of you that give all Americans such a bad name, we call that guilty by association. You 57Nomad, try to sound educated, where in fact it is obvious that you have no clue about anything, and you better talk to your dealer and tell him that you want your money back. Those drugs have turned you into the babbling idiot that you are, and all here will testify to that."



Linus, you say, " try to sound educated, where in fact it is obvious that you have no clue about anything."

Now, Linus, I'm going to explain how this works to you again. Try to keep up. I don't mind you slagging me, and I don't care what names you call me. But you are missing something vital in your posts. Because of this not only are you making a fool out of yourself, you are boring everyone to death.

If you want to call someone names, e.g., "it is obvious that you have no clue about anything," then it is your responsibility to call attention to the part of my post that supports your allegations. Otherwise, it's just your goofball opinion and nothing more, you see.

Let me give you an example. I believe you are the same person that claimed that Roman Catholics were responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus, and I thank you for leading with your chin, by the way.

I may be mistaken, and if I am, mea culpa, but if I'm not, then you are the same guy who said that Jesus was crucified by Roman Catholics. You then dissembled, saying something along the lines of "no one knows what happened 2000 years ago." And so, both your contentions, Roman Catholics responsible for crucifixion of Jesus, Sheeeesh! And you also uttered this memorable phrase, "no one knows what went on two thousand years ago." As it turns out, both of your assertions are in violent contradiction to the facts. Of course, simpleton, it was the Roman PAGANS, not Catholics, that crucified Jesus.
39

57Nomad,

22/06/2008 00:57:40
#40 contd.

Linus, do you see the strength of my position now? I addressed a substantive issue in your post and responded to it, the issue, not to you personally, but now I can.

L O S E R ! ! !
40

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 22/06/2008 01:05:23
#38...everytime you post you prove the point I made.
You have NOTHING to say but insults.
41

Linus,

At arm's length 22/06/2008 03:16:11
57Nomad,
And yet more babbling, you keep proving the point I was making, and I'm sure you will continue to do so.
42

Linus,

at arm's length 22/06/2008 03:21:18
Lynne,
It's beginning to look like this certain James Donald has your number. What's the matter, did he snub you in the past, and now you're trying to get even?
He made a factual point about your American history of colonising, but you claim not to have had the time to look at it. It sounds to me that you have far more issues than what you'd like for us to know.
43

Deuchars,

Edinburgh 22/06/2008 05:20:26
#43 Linus

Good morning communist. Maybe 2 or 3 other communists might agree with you only to make the UK look bad.
44

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 22/06/2008 05:22:08
Linus, I just won't be bothered anymore by someone who does nothing but insult. He has no points to make..just insults..it's not worth my time or trouble.
I no longer answer him and he knows it. It's a waste of his time to address anything to me..
45

Linus,

at arm's length 22/06/2008 05:46:58
#46 Lynne,
I personally have never seen this James Donald post here before, so maybe it's something private between the two of you. He did point you toward a good site though to back up the fact that your country is guilty of colonising, and that seemed to have been the point brought up by you, that America is not guilty of colonising, and James Donald proved you wrong. Other than that, whatever beef you have with him, I'll let you sort that out.
46

Linus,

at arm's length 22/06/2008 07:27:59
#45 Deuchars,
If you labelling me as a Communist makes your day, knock yourself out, doesn't bother me one bit. I'd much rather be labeled a Communist than a supporter of the Bush regime, or the Brown regime for that matter. Both regimes are guilty of an illegal invasion of Iraq, the Bush Administration is guilty of torture, they have admitted as much and pledged to keep torturing, to 'protect' their homeland. If you condone that as well, then you are a terrorist appeaser, and have no right to condemn me of anything. I strongly am opposed to any kind of torture, I also don't want to see out country get invaded, and if it did get invaded, I too would do whatever possible to get the enemy out. Try to think before you start calling me names, when push comes to shove, I'd be the one you'd want in the trenches along side of you to fight the enemy. I would be the one protecting your back, not the one shooting you in the back.
47

James Donald,

Newbridge 22/06/2008 08:50:57
#42 Lynne,Palm Beach Gardens - "everytime you post you prove the point I made.
You have NOTHING to say but insults" - Just to remind you that your post #37 ended thus:
"You are probably one of the 47% of Scots who are going thru dementia" - Not only inaccurate but a truely disgusting smear from a sick individual.
48

Cerberus,

Hades 22/06/2008 12:13:13
"If you want to rule the world, does it follow that everyone else welcomes enslavement?"
-- Caractacus

Excellent quote from a true freedom fighter (or terrorist if you are empire).

The Memorandum of Understanding is interesting: the US of A is is allowed to dispense with the notion of open contract bidding (while they insist that other countries allow US companies to bid on their projects). This is a highly socialist way of doing things.

If this wasn't "pay off", why did the Iraqis not put the contracts out on the open market?

A million Iraqi lives lost and John (nomad) Wayne says - "The "payoff" my friend is that millions of our brothers and sisters have been liberated".-No, they have been enslaved by a new generation of US control. The old generation installed Saddam until he started to develop Arab empathy after seeing how the US used him and the Iraqi people in the Iraq/Iran war and their response to the Kuwait invasion.

It is not just dumb, Herr Wayne, to say that; it is crass in the extreme. But, that is another symptom of ego issues.

I URGE you all to listen to the following link when reading any of Nomads comments. It really helps you understand the mentality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SFnvLC83ew

L-Y-N-N-E

Says repeatedly- "You are probably one of the 47% of Scots who are going thru dementia" while in full possession of the facts. This is disturbing. Here is a women who repeatedly makes disparaging remarks about a nations people that she knows to be false.

What other nations and people does she disparage while knowing full well that what she writes is false?

I urge you all to read Lynnes comments with a humorous German accent (an admittedly negative stereotype, but....). They actually begin to make some sense when read in this way.
49

summershoe,

22/06/2008 12:16:07
57Gonad has already made it clear what an idiot he is, but I just can't resist going back to one of his first statements.
Insulting native Americans by using that title? Because it's Eurocentric and related to Christopher Columbus? Before you start hurling insults at others why don't you learn your own history? It was Columbus who called the people in America "Indians" because he thought he had landed in India. Read up. And when you're done go get your own passport and start traveling.You'll be amazed at how nice people are all over the world, even in countries that we've sh!t on over the course of this decade.
50

,

22/06/2008 12:35:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
51

Moreen,

Scotsdale, AZ 22/06/2008 13:48:01
51 summershoe

Another FH troll ID?
52

Moreen,

Scotsdale, AZ 22/06/2008 13:50:44
#48 Linus

A terrorist supporter wrote "I'd much rather be labeled a Communist than a supporter of the Bush regime, or the Brown regime for that matter"

We already knew that, we can tell by your hate speech.
53

Linus,

at arm's length 22/06/2008 14:22:18
Moreen,
I notice that you are very selective as to which ones of my quotes you use, can't show the balanced things I show now, it doesn't fit in with your hatred towards me and the people that see things the way we do.
Oh and Blair, he was and still is a selfserving corrupted individual that took the UK for all that he could, and is still raping the citisens of the UK, but now he's doing it as a citisen, not as a politician. He is also a terrorist, who backed your government, and that's why you are in such awe of him, and makes you out for the terrorist appeaser that you are. It's too bad that Brown is more of a brown-noser, and afraid to tell your madman Bush to go screw himself.
54

Ballindarroch,

Highlands 22/06/2008 15:03:23
#54 Moreen

Something tells me Linus is a paid propagandist for Iran or the Taliban.
55

Linus,

at arm's length 22/06/2008 15:20:33
#56 Ballindarroch,
Everything tells me that you're an idiot and a coward, can't even say what's on that moronic mind of yours without going through somebody else. I do not back any terrorists or terrorist organisations, whether it's Iraq, Iran, the Taliban, or the Bush Administration and our own government. Anybody that supports Bush, supports torture, and if that's what you are proud of you dimwit, that speaks volumes about what a twit you are. Now if you got something to say to me, then say it to me, don't hide behind somebody else.
56

Vote SNP !!! !!!,

Kilbarchan 22/06/2008 18:05:39
56 Ballindarroch

Don't give that troll Linus the pleasure of dealing with it directly.
57

Biker,

Ayr 22/06/2008 20:27:26
Linus. Where does it say that if you dont back Bush then you are a commie sympathiser. It is possible to dislike both!!!
58

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 22/06/2008 21:37:02
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm

here is a link with much info in it about the oil in Iraq issue. For years the US & UK have been trying to achieve in Iraq a situation where US & UK oil companies are favored. They're trying to set up a bureaucracy that is sheltered from the influence of elected officials in Iraq that will be able to favor certain companies and give them guaranteed higher-than-normal profit margins based on a percentage of revenue. These contracts the article above talks about likely give these companies a percentage of the take, its not a normal service contract I'd bet. but the article said the terms of the contract are private, so we don't know. Contracts like this should not be private, they should be publicly disclosed. this happens in many countries where the governments are corrupted and then give special deals to the big corporations. The big oil companies have pioneered & mastered this model. I know that mercenary military forces were employed by big US oil companies 20-30 years ago.
59

Wally,

By The rivers Of Babylon (USA) 22/06/2008 21:49:56
I think some of the American posters who defend the bush regime (like Nomad, datey & Lynne) are behaving a bit insanely. They and many Americans are under a huge delusion.

Someone compared 1 of them to John Wayne. I would defend John Wayne from this slur. he died in 1979 so we don't know what his politics would be today. he was very intelligent and I doubt if he'd be a bush supporter.

Someone also put up that Youtube link to the 'rawhide' tv show intro & music and said it explained Nomad's mentality. I don't know why Europeans like to give the American cowboys the negative connotation in that manner. its well known that we Americans have a tremendous history with our continent being developed in a short period of time as it was. The American cowboys I defend. My grandfather worked as a cowboy in the early 1900's. We Americans like the cowboys and don't know why they're negatively portrayed.

Whatever American doesn't think the American Indians were mis-treated is a fool. They had a tv-movie on recently in America about the history of how Geronimo was captured. My great-great grandfather was a member of the very military unit that captured Geronimo in the 1880's. The movie which tried to show the history accurately portrayed the way the Indians were treated as being very bad. and that is true. The Indians were badly mistreated. There was a lot of violence over a long period of time and that violence went both ways, from the Indians to the whites and from the whites to the Indians. In the end the whites won and abused their power over the Indians. Any American who doesn't know the Indians were badly mis-treated is a fool.

Even my great-great grandfather acknowledged they were mistreated in letters he wrote. He was one of the people killing them sometimes unjustly as well, but he said it was only orders from above that caused this. just like today it is orders from above that cause the Americans to do bad things in Iraq & elsewhere.
60

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 22/06/2008 22:01:52
as some above spoke of American mis-deeds in the past, let me offer this following link.

http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=1593

And also see the links inside that link. It is about the death camps set up in Germany by the Americans after WW2. Why did they set these up? because it was a priority of American leadership. Just as today, the things the americans do they are led to do by their leaders. and we can see on this thread how people stubbornly defend those leaders no matter what.

Isn't it funny how we have a tendency to blame the people for the things that their leaders get them to do. Just as after WW2 there was great hatred of the Germans and it seems some were murdered in death camps as a result. Why blame the germans and seek such revenge? After all, it was their leaders who led them to it. The people of all the nations are like sheep and they fall in line below their leaders. America's democracy system is a fraud. The will of the Americans, nor the welfare or interests of the Americans is not represented in the government of the US.
61

Linus,

at arm's length 22/06/2008 23:19:48
#59 Biker,
It doesn't say that anywhere, but some people, as Deuchars, have accused me of that. Please ask Deuchars what he or she is implying with his/her statement.
62

right of center,

Chicago 23/06/2008 00:23:09
#63 Linus

LOL, nice attempt of spinning. I see Biker is helping you spin also.
63

57Nomad,

california 23/06/2008 20:00:10
#25 linus
Linus said:

"You 57Nomad, try to sound educated, where in fact it is obvious that you have no clue about anything."

Maybe, maybe not. I know this, I know what you said in defense of the "Catholics Killed Christ," thesis you courageously advanced just a few days ago. You said you were sure it was the catholics, and then just a sentence or two later you stated that 'nobody knows' what happened 2000 years ago. Well, which is it? You can't say that you know and that nobody knows. A thing cannot be itself and not itself at the same time and in the same way.

Linus I have told you repeatedly about the flaw in the way that you format your posts. An entirely ad hominem approach may, you feel, add power to your argument. It does nothing of the kind. If, peabrain, this gets through to you, simply work a little harder before you post, add substance by referencing ideas or views on events, etc., because, as of now, you've got nothing but personal attacks.

Furthermore, those you attack are laughing at you. To be slagged by the guy who thought Catholics killed Jesus is about as glowing a recommendation as can be had anywhere.
64

Biker,

Ayr 24/06/2008 23:00:11
Actually Right of Centre the last thing I would do is help Linus spin. I simply asked the question of him which I still have no answer. Linus is perfectly capable of hanging himself.
65

Caratacus,

West Britain 27/06/2008 12:06:10
#49
You spelt the name wrong!
And 'Caractacus' wasn't so enamoured of freedom that he didn't welcome being pensioned off to a suburb in Rome once he'd been defeated!

 

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