Cheney backs CIA interrogations

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22/04/2009 01:35:51

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Let's have the truth,

Australia 22/04/2009 02:11:21

Of course Cheney backs the CIA torture, he's the one who instigated it.

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bikewoman,

22/04/2009 03:53:15

#8

LOL, your tunnel vision is very funny!

You left out the fact Saddam brought on the war himself by not keeping his end of the deal when it came to all of those UN resolutions he kept violating when he lost the war after he invaded Kuiwait to steal land and rape their people.

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bikewoman,

22/04/2009 03:53:57

#10 was meant for the idiot at #9, not #8.

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22/04/2009 08:22:17

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billengland,

22/04/2009 08:44:24

""I know what the consequences were for the country," Mr Cheney said."

So do we all. Bushco wrecked the USA.

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Annals Ya Scorer,

Edinburgh 22/04/2009 09:19:37

So now the people that the USA are fighting can torture US and UK troops while citing the same rationale.

USA is a defacto Outlaw Terror State.

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Alec in Chicago,

Chicago 22/04/2009 10:27:51

Regina

How do you know who gave up what information?

Torture is not just immoral, but it is a notoriously ineffectual means of getting valid information.

Immoral and ineffectual: that pretty well sums up the Bush-Cheney administration - barring their two main areas of endeavor. They were very effective at war-mongering and turning the republic into a fascist state.

If you can describe waterboarding as having a little water squirted up the nose, you are as vile as your heroes. Try being waterboarded. My associates who've undergone it would highly recommend you do so.

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22/04/2009 12:10:57

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Carolyn 1,

22/04/2009 12:20:53

Interesting that my comment @ #4 was deleted- I put up a quote from the New York Times and one from Obama's Intelligence Director that states that the interrogation helped stop an attack.... and the comment is deleted.
Yup. That's what progressives do, delete whatever facts could hurt their agenda. No news there.

reports are out that there was a planned second wave of attacks in Los Angeles but the harsh interrogation of Shiek Mohamed resulted in information that they were able to stop the LA attacks.
If this evidence is true, it justifies the interrogation using water for 20 seconds on one terrorist to save the lives of thousands of innocent.

President Bush, Cheney and the CIA chose to protect thousands of innocent citizens. The question is, will Obama do the same or play politics?

From the Drudge Report:
updated 10:21 p.m. ET, Tues., April 21, 2009

WASHINGTON - President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a *private memo* last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation...

*Private memo*
I'd like to know what is in the *private" memo. Rather than politically vilify the former administration, we need to know if the memo and classified reports in fact vindicate the CIA.
too much is at stake to play politics-

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Carolyn 1,

22/04/2009 13:22:42

@19
Please consider a history book, so you don't humiliate yourself with incorrect chronology.
The Trade Towers attack was in 2001.
The planned but prevented attack on Los Angeles evidently was a second wave.
Iraq was much later, although the United Nations wanted "Saddam Hussein dealt with" under the Clinton administration. (Their words, not mine)

Furthermore, here in the United States we do consider all residents of Los Angeles to be innocent.

Next, you need to understand what a promise is, what a president's responsibility entails:
Of great importance, under the Oath of the Office of the President of the United States, the president is required to protect the people.
He did.

At some point Obama is going to be nothing more than a political has-been if he doesn't get these facts out about the attack on LA

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Carolyn 1,

22/04/2009 13:31:24

The oath of office of the President of the United States is an oath or affirmation required by the United States Constitution before the President begins the execution of the office.
The wording is specified in Article Two, Section One, Clause Eight:

"I do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Like I said earlier, let's hope Obama keeps this promise and does not "nuance" his answer, vote present or play politics with American lives.

New Yorkers are still dieing from the effects of the attacks at Ground Zero, if Edinburgh had a huge empty pit, a Ground Zero in the center of its business sector, I should hope they would not appease the attackers but would come to understand what the word terrorist attack means

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Carolyn 1,

22/04/2009 13:44:57

@23 Another new name for the resident communist and paid poster-
(a three foot long neck proved him wrong.
Swing Bush, swing.)

Perfect!
Saddam was held accountable in a court of law, by his peers and by the free citizens of his country, and under the laws of courts, he was allowed to present evidence.
Let's put Bush on trial.
That way we can see once and for all details of the attacks that were planned against the country and how successful he and the CIA were in keeping us safe, and if he did in fact, uphold his promise under oath to, "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

If he did not keep that promise, he should be jailed. Likewise, every president in the past, and every president in the future, should also stand trial as to whether or not he protected and defended the people against attacks.

Liberals can't have it both ways. If Bush hangs, Clinton must also hang because the planning for the attacks were under his command, which he did nothing to prevent.

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Carolyn 1,

22/04/2009 14:48:41

@Paid Comminist troll @28
"(occupying Iraq illegally whilst his merry band of troops go around raping, torturing and murdering innocent Iraqi citizens,)

Wow! What a shocker!
But as always, untrue.
You need to stop believing all that Chinese bullshiit the commies disseminate.

Luckily, for the Iraqi, a paid troll in a communist country has no authority to tell the sovereign country of Iraq what it should or should not do, can and can not do.

It is the decision of the Iraqi people and their elected officials to decide who hangs and who does not. Not China. Not Scotland. Not France. Iraq decides. If the Iraqi people want Bush hung for raping the people and occupying the country why are they ordering our troops to stay?

Get a grip. Your communist-imposed ignorance is oozing worse than puss.

#18
Oh, let me take a wild guess: my post was deleted because you pushed the little button.

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Let's have the truth,

Australia 22/04/2009 14:55:06

#30

"If the Iraqi people want Bush hung for raping the people and occupying the country why are they ordering our troops to stay?"

Ordering???? If you didn't know, the Iraqi government is a puppet of the USA. They want US troops to stay to perpetuate their tenure.

It is amazing how blinkered some people are to the truth.

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22/04/2009 15:05:21

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22/04/2009 15:08:01

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Carolyn 1,

22/04/2009 15:20:20

I realize being in China you have restrictions to accurate information. But here's a couple of clues about reliable news sources.

1. Sources should not include the term dicks.
Polidics means political dicks, and dicks are not reliable but they do have an agenda

2. Proper use of Words: In case you missed it, TROOPS does not mean one person. Duh.
Really, when are you going to tell us how much you get paid for this bullshiit and how thick the book is where you look up the answers you can post?

I'm off to work.

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Carolyn 1,

22/04/2009 15:21:55

the CIA report includes details of the capture of the terrorist "Garuba cell" a 17-member Jemaah Islamiyah who planned the‘Second Wave, proves the information received in the interrogation was valuable and not fairy-tale.

Why doesn't the Obama clan want the people to know these facts?

“..the interrogation of Shiek Mohammed—once enhanced techniques were employed—led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles,” ..

“..that information obtained led to Hambali, and the discover of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemaah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave,’” reads the memo. “More specifically, we understand that KSM admitted that he had [redaction] large sum of money to an al Qaeda associate [redaction] … Khan subsequently identified the associate (Zubair), who was then captured. Zubair, in turn, provided information that led to the arrest of Hambali. The information acquired from these captures allowed CIA interrogators to pose more specific questions to KSM, which led the CIA to Hambali’s brother, al Hadi. Using information obtained from multiple sources, al-Hadi was captured, and he subsequently identified the Garuba cell. With the aid of this additional information, interrogations of Hambali confirmed much of what was learned from KS"

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mike - across the pond,

lets have the truth 22/04/2009 16:13:26

first question... would your name imply that you are actually SEEKING the truth...

second question... would you recognize the truth if you actually FOUND it???

third question... would you accept the truth once you found it???

somehow I think your answer to these questions would be emphatic no, NO and 4377 NO!!!!

if your BDS renders you incapable of understanding what happened... just say it... its OK...

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mike - across the pond,

as far as trials 22/04/2009 16:42:34

you may not LIKE the US constitution... but you should take a couple hours and READ it... you might find it rather interesting...

W and Cheney are US citizens... and by the 11th ammendment to our constitution, will not stand trial under foreign courts, or jurisdictions... period... end of discussion... you will have to invade and overthow our government for that to happen... good luck on that front pals... just last year our supreme court ruled that pesky 2nd ammendment (you know the one about FIRE ARMS) pertained to ALL us citizens...

if you cannot accept that in 2002 Iraq was in violation of UN resolutions and in material breach of the very cease fire treaty that stopped the first Gulf War... I dont know what to say... you are simply choosing to ignore the FACTS...

I would like you to point out where W or the US government said ANYTHING linking Iraq directly to 9-11... the entire linking of Iraq was via Hans Blix (not a US citizen btw, VERY european, and no fan of US actions) depiction of Iran's refusal to comply with their agreements.... the implications of that defiance... and even Blix knew what was coming... an A-League slap down... which was delivered... on que

as far as Iraq being a puppet regime.. the Iraqi people elected their government... um... TWICE now... and appear well on their way to the first secular arab democracy... which probably scares the BAJEEBERS out of ALL of their neighbors... and may well be a VERY significant factor in the Iraqi government asking 50k us support troops to stay in country....

you know a couple more of those Iraqi elections, and you may find it hard to justify your BDS... roflmao..

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Proximaking,

Aberdeen 22/04/2009 18:05:28

What your constitution says and what it has the power to deliver are two very different things Mike. Would you know the truth if you saw it or heard it? We all know what the 2nd ammendment meant because we read the whole sentence but it seems some people don't know sentences end at a full stop and not a comma. Hans Blix said he was horrified at what the USA was doing and that he saw WMD and non-compliance with the nuclear inspectorate as a convenient cover story for Bush to do as he pleased, which he did. As for electing a government well in that at last you may be correct, for now, though I can't see it lasting any longer than the stay of the American troops. And quite what a Batchellor of Dental Surgery (BDS) has to do with any of this I'm not sure at all.

Incidentally if you are looking for the truth and can recognise it when it speaks directly to you Mike you should have a look at this site, now this is about a weapon of mass destruction, .... it is called a brain, something sadly lacking in the States it would seem. Who is as blind as my servant or as deaf, ..... Mike? http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2008/01/06/crackpot-or-genius-has-a-shell-boffin-stumbled-on-a-scientific-breakthrough

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mike - across the pond,

ah proxi 22/04/2009 19:06:26

what we have the power to deliver... you ARE funny

please tell me exactly what it is we DONT have the power to deliver... especially where it concerns the governance of our own... we've been thumbing our noses at you guys for 233 years now... you may not LIKE it... but exactly WHO is it you've turned to over the last century whenver you've found your bacon in the fire?

and remind me whose mess this is we are cleaning up now? oh yeah that would be YOURS.... AGAIN...

on hans blix... you DID step in it, didnt you... there was never much real concern with Iraq, nuclear weaponry, and the IEC... (The IEC IS where Blix came from, but that is entirely another matter...) Blix was entreated BY THE UN to verify the disarmament (of both conventional and WMD) of Iraq... which Hussein had adroitly refused to allow the verification of compliance... and the "blix warnings" were to Hussein that if he WAS in compliance that he had better let him verify it so the US would NOT have that excuse... hussein didnt comply... Blix threw up his hands walked away... and the US started "Shock & Awe"... hussein stretched a rope... Iraq has a fledgling democracy on their hands...

BDS... you brits KILL me... rofl... you brits let those with BACCELOREATTE degrees perform dental surgery... ROFLMAO.... guess that explains your bad teeth... here in the US it's DDS.. DOCTORATE of Dental Surgery... but then again with that health care plan you've got maybe you cant afford to KEEP your doctors at home... (was that off topic?)

BDS = BUSH DERANGEMENT SYNDROME you know that yammering & frothing at the mouth feeling YOU get whenever you hear the mere mention of W... Cheney... or anyone not bashing the US... roflmao...

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Alec in Chicago,

Chicago 22/04/2009 21:00:58

17 "Jack Murtha"

My associates were not supposed to be in danger: they were water-boarded by the military (not the CIA!) as part of their military training.

Funny the assumption made.

None of my associates agrees with your idiotic bumper stickers. And experts have all agreed that torture does not garner reliable information.

Pehaps you are seeking vengeance. But do you know how many absoluely innocent people were totured in the thirst for vengeance?

It's an idiotic thing to compare unrelated people/events: Our innocent are dead, those are "only" tortured. That's sick.

By the way, got the latest on all the dead and maimed on all sides, just for Bush-Cheney lies?

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mike - across the pond,

hey alec.... 22/04/2009 21:09:56

just remembering your allegances.... liberal if I am not mistaken

all your "statistics" you are keeping for amunition...

how did you gather those... being that the "insurgents" gather up their wounded (and dead) for the purpose of not allowing those statistics to be gathered....

you get those from aliens?

or those who are bent on using statistics to prove their point... of course you will acknowledge that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.... rofl

guess theres a big hole in your ammo box.... eh?

I do have one question for you... how do you feel about BO's "the day I take office I will shut down Gitmo" promise... or his "I will pull all troops from Iraq" promise.... feelin good about those... or just a wee little bit slimey?

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Alec in Chicago,

Chicago 22/04/2009 21:10:05

Moreen

You are the one in need of history lessons.

Bush: "Weapons of mass destruction."

Cheney and Rice: "mushroom cloud on the horizon."

If Saddam Hussein wasn't abiding by UN resolutions, why did UN weapons inspectors have to be withdrawn to avoid being caught up in Bush's war of choice?

There might not ave been a 9/11 attack, if Bush hadn't ignored that early August warning - but he was already intent upon attacking Iraq.

Sorry, "the liberals" were right. They've a much better track record than the neocons. (If you trusted the liberal economists, you saved your retirement funds; if not, enjoy your losses!)

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mike - across the pond,

and alec 22/04/2009 21:53:13

on fascism... you probably should understand what fascism IS before you go throwing that term around...

Hillary Clinton... declaring herself "I'm a Teddy Roosevelt Progressive"... excuse me... a Teddy Roosevelt Progressive... do you KNOW what that was... other than just some politically "romantic cliche"... Progressives of that era proudly alligned themselves with European Fascists... just as the Kennedies of the 1920's & early 30's alligned themselves with the German Nazis

I found you a definition for Fascists...

"A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion." [Robert O. Paxton, "The Anatomy of Fascism," 2004]

it seems by THAT definition YOUR liberals are the closest thing the US has seen to fascism in the last century...

"preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults "... gay rights... the whole Politically Correct movement... NARAL...

"compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites"... again NARAL... NAACP.... those obsessed with appologizing for slights and insults of the distant past...

"abandon democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence"... what is it you liberals want to do with the 2nd ammendment????

who is the fascist? those who proudly proclaim themselves that way, leaving no room for other belief structures?

so you calling others Fascist... would that be calling them "one of your own"?

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Alec in Chicago,

Chicago 22/04/2009 21:55:55

To what statistics do you refer? Ge off the floor and look for your a$$: you'll need it for thinking.

I don't feel any slimier with Obama in office than I did with Bush: I backed *neither.* Funny, the assumptions Bush fans make. (Are you related to the troll that has to use someone else's name?)

Obama is what those of us who looked at his voting record knew him to be: a sleazy corporatist-militarist, who will do anything to advance his cause: himself and his own rise to power. He's always been untrustworthy and he always will be.

You, at least, should take some consolation in Obama's presidency: he's continuing the Bush-Paulson Wall Street Giveaway, he's bombed Pakistan, wants to escalate in Afghanistan, and I zipped past an item that I wish I had bookmarked: his first signing statement or his first statement in support of signing statements. (As I said, I zipped past it and neglected to bookmark it.)

No, Mike, you've got hold of the wrong end of the stick - again.

Going to delete this latest mis-aimed comment, too, just like a certain previous one. (That was most amusing.) You should be slower to jump to conclusions.

My allegiance is to the Constitution, just as it is supposed to be. (Too bad Bush's wasn't.)

In fact, for most of my life I was what was once considered a moderate - until the lunatic neocons pushed politics so far right that even Richard Nixon would be tagged a liberal. But, like Ben Franklin, I am drifting farther to the left as I get older.
Poor Mike: he can't keep his adversaries straight.

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Taz,

The Land of the Free. 22/04/2009 22:15:36

Water boarding is not torture. US Seals are water boarded as part of their training.I guess we did strip em starkers and have dogs woof at them. If you want to understand torture, educate yourselves on what the UK in their concentration camps did to Kenyans by the thousand in the 50's.

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Alec in Chicago,

Chicago 22/04/2009 22:57:51

Mike, what is it with you?

First you say that I am using statistics, then that I am using using the term "fascist."

I have re-read my comments, and can't see where I have done either.

You ought to be careful, when making statements about Nazi sympathizers: you do know which American was one of the strongest supporters of Nazi Germany, don't you? (For those who don't: Prescott Bush, grandfather of George W.) I'd be interested in your source on "the Kennedies [sic]" - as I have never bought into the Kennedy mystique in general or the myth of John Kennedy in particular. I've heard of Joseph P.'s ties to bootlegging and the illegal importation of alcohol during Prohibition, as well as having heard that his dabbles into the film industry were not always the most ethical.

I don't know what gay rights or NARAL have to do with fascism or with restricting the rights of others - or with anything currently under discussion. Why you bring them in mystifies me.

You always try to drag in Democrats when responding to me. Can you not get it into your head that I am not a Democrat?

Nor am I PC. I have locked horns with many a liberal on a number of issues, such as "immigration reform" (legalizing illegal aliens) - of which your hero Bush is in favor, by the way.

I can speak only for myself: I want to defend the 2nd Amendment just as mch as any other part fo the Constitution - or that "god-damned piece of paper," as it was known in the bush White House. (But what do neocons say about the "well-regulated militia" aspect of it? I never hear that spoken of.) Liberals seem to be very much divided on issues involving gun ownership/gun control, as they are on many issues. It is the neocons who tend to speak with a single voice and march in locked step.

Who are "my liberals"? You mentioned Hillary Clinton - but she is neither "mine" nor a liberal.

Still don't know who you're addressing, do you, Mike?

I believe in the greatest possible fr

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mike - across the pond,

spanking poor alec 23/04/2009 14:45:36

so you didnt wield the term fascist? care to look at post 16 again? it bore your tag line...

let me guess you are looking at your shoes... kicking a piece of dust.... and is that a bunch of mumbling I hear from you...

CHIN UP LIBERAL... LOOK ME IN THE EYE....

and dont get TOO wrapped up in Franklin being liberal... he wasnt... a 17th century libertarian maybe... but NONE of our founding fathers would be any part of today's liberalism movement... not even Adams...

let me quote you Churchill.. if you are age 20 and not a liberal, you have no heart... if by 30 you are not a conservative, you have no brain...

being that you have proudly proclaimed you left the conservativism of your youth and are now liberal... one must only draw the conclusion you quite possibly have no heart AND no brain... I'm sorry if your condition prevents you from logical progression...

as far as tarring you with the democrat brush... you claim you are liberal... now I understand that the "smart" democrats have run from that label in favor of "progressive"... but you, like they, are not fooling ANYONE... oh wait... smart... no brain... I understand you havent noticed they all changed the sign on the door...

I do find it rather interesting that you claim yourself liberal... but oppose things like immigration.... pray tell smart boy... how are you gonna pay for social security... or the coming Medicaid/Medicare bill.... even if YOU are not counting on it for yourself... any REALIST worth his weight in water will tell you that we NEED a larger working base to pay for those... hint... those immigrants... THEY ARE WORKERS!!!! GIVE EM GREEN CARDS... TAX EM...

and just exactly what kind of liberal is going to turn their backs on the aging???

oh I forgot... liberal.... over 30.... no brain... you physically cant DO the math... now can you???

mean old me... picking on the handicapped.... ROFL

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mike - across the pond,

alec... and statistics... 23/04/2009 15:04:03

I'm sorry if your condition prevents you from remembering what you post...

but your post at #42 sure is steeped in "statistics"

and I know... you didnt say anything about statistics... did you

is your condition more closely related to ADD, alzhiemers, or do you just have a bad case of liberal rectal encephalitis?

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23/04/2009 15:11:40

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mike - across the pond,

ah kingpin 23/04/2009 15:29:26

lets just for one moment say...

your wife goes to work one day and some terrorist blows up the building she works in...

what would you do to get the information to stop that terrorist?

what would you do to get the information to stop that terrorist from killing your childrens mother?

now I know that your wife deserves whatever fate that terrorist bestows upon her...

so why have police...

or firemen...

or a military...

just let the natural order of things take place...

right???

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23/04/2009 15:33:42

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mike - across the pond,

ah kingpin 23/04/2009 19:06:14

I think you're being obtuse...

you see some Mr & Mrs Smith thing going on in my life? I can only respond to that by saying "I wish"... lol

so you maintain that none of these guys we grabbed had ANYTHING to do with any bad actions?

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed... please just Wiki the guy... see what the internet at large has to say about him...

are you claiming that these were all just a bunch of "choir boys" hangin out waiting for choir practice...

even the "cab driver"... well he wasnt actually a cab driver.. in REALITY he was the personal chauffer for one of the high ranking mucky mucks... and I dont believe that he was ever waterboarded...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

the POINT was... no matter who it was, you would rather do nothing and let nature run its course than do whatever it takes to keep your loved ones safe? are your loved ones aware of your cavalier laissez-faire attitudes regarding their safety?

does that go for guys who want to disregard traffic signals?
speed limits?
drinking & driving?
dumping toxic waste wherever they like?

where does it stop?

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23/04/2009 19:46:09

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Alec in Chicago,

Chicago 23/04/2009 19:47:39

# 50 Hey, Moreen

If my post was so silly, why didn't you let it stand?

No, I don't think you were lauging.

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Barry Brock,

USA 24/04/2009 04:24:40

I just love this comment by John McCain's daughter Meghan about Dick Cheney, “You had your eight years,” Ms. McCain declared. “Go away.”

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Alec in Chicago,

Chicago 24/04/2009 18:24:32

What's the matter, Mike?

Had to delete my comments?

Whatever happened to your supposed belief in American ideals? I believe you'll find that free speech is one of them. (It's covered in the Constitutional Amendment that comes before the only one neocons truly believe in.)

Cowardice: a personality trait of neoconservatives.

Hypocrisy: a requirement for becoming a neocon.

Once again, you prove yourself for just what you are, Mike.

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mike - across the pond,

,

,

mike - across the pond,

,

Alec in Chicago,

,

Barry Brock,

Alec in Chicago,

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