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Brown faces Commons with 'profound' regret



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Published Date:
22 November 2007
GORDON Brown has "profoundly" apologised for the loss of personal details of almost half the population as it transpired that teenagers could be left vulnerable to identity theft for years.
The Prime Minister said he regretted the "inconvenience" that has left 25 million people exposed to potential fraud after an HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) official copied the sensitive details to computer discs which were then lost in transit.

Facing the Commons for the first time since the scandal broke, he promised security checks on all government departments.

Mr Brown told MPs: "I profoundly regret and apologise for the inconvenience and worries that have been caused to millions of families who receive child benefits."

The government would do "everything in our power to make sure data is safe" and there was "no excuse" for the breach of security procedures which caused the current crisis.

He has given Richard Thomas, the Information Commissioner, new powers to conduct spot checks on how Whitehall departments keep data.

Mr Brown's apology came as a credit reference agency warned that what was being cast as a bureaucratic blunder could pose long-term danger for those qualifying for child benefit.

Children whose details had been lost, particularly those aged between 15 and 17, were also at risk, because once they turned 18, fraudsters would start applying for credit in their names, Experian warned.

Helen Lord, compliance director at the credit reference agency, said: "The fraudsters will wait until they turn 18 and start applying for loans, credit cards, mobile phone contracts and other credit products in their names.

"That could have a catastrophic effect on their ability to get on the housing ladder, rent a flat, obtain their first credit card, obtain a loan for their first car, even open a bank account."

Mr Brown was further challenged on government claims that no-one else other than a junior official was involved in trying to obtain the information for the National Audit Office (NAO).

The NAO has since said that it dealt with senior officials at the HMRC to request less comprehensive information, but was told that it was less burdensome to receive the entire database.

Edward Leigh, the Conservative MP and chairman of the Commons committee overseeing the work of the NAO, pointed to a briefing note written by NAO head Sir John Bourn for the Chancellor. It indicated that senior HMRC officials authorised the release of sensitive information.

The note states that the NAO requested data on child benefit claimants in a "desensitised" form, with bank accounts and other personal data removed, in March.

Mr Brown's insistence that the error was not down to systemic errors was met with derision by David Cameron, the Conservative leader.

"The government has failed in its first duty to protect the public," he said during a stormy Prime Minister's questions.

"What people want from their Prime Minister on a day like this is for you to stand up, show some broad shoulders, be the big man, take some responsibility."

The Conservatives made clear that they plan to blame Mr Brown, not Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, for the crisis.

Mr Brown has insisted that his Chancellor will not step down, although the HMRC falls under the Treasury's remit.

On Tuesday, Paul Gray, the chairman of the HMRC, had resigned over the affair. But it was revealed last night that he was signed off on full pay until the government worked out an early- retirement package for the £190,000-a-year civil servant.

The controversy has shaken back-benchers' confidence in the Prime Minister and his policies. Even normally loyal Labour MPs started to question whether the government's identity card scheme should go ahead.

Karen Buck, a former Home Office minister who once endorsed the policy said: "The real fall-out from this has got to be confidence."

Meanwhile, the junior official - who has not yet been named - at the centre of the row was believed to be in a "safe house". The IT specialist, who worked in HMRC's office in Tyne and Wear, was reportedly in a hotel with a 24-hour minder.

The government will be keen to avoid a David Kelly-style "witch hunt" for the individual.

Yesterday, the Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS) confirmed it was providing support to the employee involved and described the mistake as "inevitable" because of restructuring and job cuts demanded by the government.

Mr Darling earlier had admitted that the crisis had rocked his self-confidence.

In a round of media appearances, Mr Darling apologised "unreservedly", but added: "I am not going to start running away from things when things get difficult. It is difficult, it is unwelcome in every respect and I am determined to see it through."

Meanwhile the Information Commissioner said it was "almost certain" HMRC had broken the Data Protection Act when an official had been able to copy an entire database.

The act does allow victims to sue HMRC and the Chancellor for compensation - but ultimately it will be taxpayers picking up the tab.

It also emerged that in August, the Lords science and technology committee had called for a security breach notification law and for the Information Commissioner be given new powers to conduct random audits of organisations' security measures.

The government's response at the time was that this was not necessary.

A slip so serious that no-one is even calling for resignations


ANALYSIS

WHEN the career of a government minister looks shaky, it is often the result of a political row that is little understood by those outside the Westminster village - a conflict of interest, perhaps, or inadvertently misleading another politicians.

This time it is different.

Neither the Chancellor nor the Prime Minister were personally responsible for the string of clerical blunders within Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC).

But with half of Britain's citizens now exposed to fraud and identity theft - a risk about which Whitehall agencies have spent years lecturing citizens - the government is now battling to keep the trust of the people.

And all for the sake of a missing CD. The names, dates of birth and National Insurance numbers of millions of Britons have probably fallen behind a desk. But the political damage has been done.

Even if millions of bank accounts remain uncompromised, the drama is already in place for the public to perceive this as a crisis.

The weekend's opinion polls will be nail-biting reading for the government.

It must have been excruciating for Gordon Brown to be lectured by the much less experienced David Cameron on the need to show "broad shoulders". It must have been equally painful to apologise for what was supposedly an error by a single junior IT specialist.

Information has already come to light that more than one official at HMRC was involved in deciding what information to give the National Audit Office, posing a serious challenge to the government's initial explanations.

Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, yesterday admitted the blunder had rocked his self-confidence.

But the public's confidence has also been shaken in the government's ability to manage its information systems.

At stake is the progress of key government policies; critics of the identity card scheme have seized on this crisis as evidence that the whole scheme is doomed. Even loyal Labour MPs have called for a moratorium on identity cards.

Mr Brown's insistence that the government's entire child benefit database was sent in "error" by a single, junior official will do little to ease anxiety for the 25 million citizens at risk from identity fraud.

The Prime Minister was trying to convince us it was not a systemic failure - a bid to avoid the fate of home secretaries Charles Clarke and John Reid who found themselves having to admit that the department over which they presided was out of control.

But what he inadvertently did was highlight the ease with which such sensitive information could be lost. And thanks to his decision to shed staff at the newly formed HMRC, union bosses are now calling for a freeze on job cuts.

No-one has called for Mr Brown or Mr Darling to resign. This is bad news: it suggests the situation is so serious that one or both of them might have to go even without the intervention of the opposition.

ANGER AT CHARGES FOR LOST DATA HELPLINE CALLS


HM REVENUE and Customs came under further attack yesterday for charging millions of people whose personal data it lost to call a helpline for advice.

The Taxpayers' Alliance, which campaigns for lower taxes, said the use of an 0845 number was "rubbing salt into the wounds" of claimants.

High demand would also result in callers being put on hold, it predicted, increasing a total bill it estimated could run into millions of pounds.

Campaign director Mark Wallace said: "It is absolutely disgraceful that, having incompetently put 25 million people at risk of fraud and identity theft, HMRC now expects those affected to pay to phone the helpline.

"This scandalous failure has caused a lot of anxiety and could yet cost people a great deal of money. Making people pay for advice on securing personal data that should have been safe in the first place just rubs salt into the wound."

But HMRC defended its decision to use an existing paid-for helpline and said anyone concerned about the cost could give their number and be called back.

A spokesman also insisted there was surplus capacity available to deal with increased call volumes.

"We do not operate any free lines; it's a local rate number. If they are concerned about the cost we will take their number and call them back," he said.

An Ofcom spokeswoman said calling an 0845 number from a BT Option 1 Together package would cost around 3p per minute, which is the same as dialling an 02 or 01 number. But calls to 0845 numbers from mobile phones may be more expensive than calling a landline, depending on which tariff is being used.

Calls to 0845 numbers may generate revenue for the recipient if the organisation takes up that option. An HMRC spokeswoman said its 0845 number was the existing child benefit number which was charged at local rate and was not revenue-sharing.

The Ofcom spokeswoman said the telecoms regulator supported the use of 03 numbers by public bodies because these had the same charges for calls from both landlines and mobile phones and did not have a revenue-sharing option.

Banks say tidal wave of concern fails to materialise


BANKS reported a higher rate of calls from the public anxious about the security of their accounts yesterday, but not the tidal wave many expected following the government's loss of the personal details of 25 million people.

The number of callers to banks spiked yesterday morning, but by mid afternoon had returned to normal, according to the British Bankers Association.

Customers who receive child benefit were advised that security checks were being carried out on accounts and to keep a close eye on transactions for abnormal activity.

HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) said its child benefit helpline, which people worried about the security breach have been instructed to call, was slightly busier than normal.

A spokesman for Halifax Bank of Scotland said it had not seen any significant rise in call levels. "We have offered guidance to those who have called with concerns, as well as urging them to look at the HMRC's website for all the relevant information."

A spokesman for the Royal Bank of Scotland said there had been a minor increase in the number of calls.

An HSBC spokesman said: "We did see some increase, particularly after the 6pm news broadcast (on Monday night). The number of calls was easily managed. Most customers were simply looking for reassurance that we had increased security, which we have done."

Britain's banks were notified there was a problem on Friday, but it took the weekend for the Association of Payment Clearing Services to sort the personal details into "bundles" for each relevant bank. Since then, the banks' computer technology has examined each account to check for any irregular activity. However, none has yet been discovered.

The banks added that security had been increased and the lost data on its own was not enough to enable a fraudster to access people's bank accounts.

STEPHEN MCGINTY

The full article contains 2067 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

An inconveinent truth 22/11/2007 01:47:44

From the Times


It was revealed last night that the official responsible for Britain’s biggest breach of personal security was a 23-year-old junior at the Child Benefit Agency who could have been paid as little as £13,000 a year.

Whitehall sources said that the male IT worker had been authorised by senior managers at HM Revenue & Customs to copy and dispatch the files on two CDs in a blatant breach of all documented data security procedures.

The managers had been asked to send strictly protected information about Child Benefit claimants to the National Audit Office but reportedly refused to do so because editing the database would have been a costly exercise and they were under pressure from the Treasury to slash expenditure

2

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

They even lied 22/11/2007 01:54:09

They even lied about Paul Grays' resignation

"On Tuesday, Paul Gray, the chairman of the HMRC, had resigned over the affair. But it was revealed last night that he was signed off on full pay until the government worked out an early- retirement package for the £190,000-a-year civil servant."

I'm lovin it

Sort code 229011
A/c No. 057891254

Nat Insurance No. BX 001568400D

Better think about start selling your flat. In about the next three years, the credit ratings of would be first time buyers, will not be worthy of the debt that they actually try and arrange.

Time to invest in Lagos

3

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

22/11/2007 02:03:38

At Midday, if everyone could, wherever you are, stand up and clap in appreciation of our government.

The people of the UK would like to thank the security in Whitehall, the Government in Westminster and all those who will detract blame from themselves for making this happen.

Hooraaaaaaaaaaaaah

4

,

22/11/2007 02:08:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1164087, Article id was mapped to record!
5

Mad King Bambo,

Roon at Flabskin's bit 22/11/2007 02:11:14

"Yesterday, the Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS) ...described the mistake as "inevitable" because of restructuring and job cuts..."

I'm sick and tired of this pseudo-marxist drivel. What the effing hell could this problem have to do with 'restructuring and job cuts'?

It stems from the ethos that permeates the public sector at every level:

"Do as you please. Treat the public with contempt. Incompetence, however monumental, carries no consequence. Failure does not even exist as a concept..."

6

Toots - Sheila,

Canada 22/11/2007 02:11:51

Now will the Treasury Committee called the Money Laundering Advisory Committee believe me when I say that ALL of the financial criminals and fraudsters are IN the UK and NOT those consumers NOT IN the UK!!

7

.Haggis The Great.,

Dunfermline 22/11/2007 02:18:23

Oh happy days..............

8

Mad King Bambo,

Roon at Flabskin's bit 22/11/2007 02:22:12

Q.E.D.

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1836002007

Spend money on a few sensible simple measures to protect the public's security? No chance.

Shovel money down the drain on fatuous, pointless foreign junkets for public officials and their mates?
Baggy me first!

9

Big Alan,

22/11/2007 02:39:03

Boon and Darling should be sorry.

Their details are on the disk!

10

TommyKaye,

UK 22/11/2007 02:46:13

Haggis The Great:

You are wrong about having to listen watch etc because......Well of course if England had been there we would have beat them and then them and then well we would have won it in fact should have won it..........I know because I have heard it all before........
However this has nothing ot do with the complete dumbing down of UK society and the loss of two discs with 25 million family details. Ithink it may be time ot call in the Crack Portuguese Police Squad or better still the crack team that blew that young Brazillian away they don't mess around.

11

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

Already 12 days have passed - I didn't know that 22/11/2007 02:51:46

From the Times

"Mr Darling was first informed about the crisis on November 10, but did not tell bankers until November 16. A further two days passed before banking industry bodies were allowed to pass details to individual banks."

Angela Knight, chief executive of the British Bankers’ Association, implied that the banks would expect the Government to pay if fraud occurred in the wake of the security breach. She said: “This isn’t a bank responsibility. The banks didn’t lose the data.”

The taxpayer picking up what could be a very big bill indeed and for a very long time.

Why 6 days before he informed the banks?

No chance of it being found now then.


Bye bye darling

But where there is a gloomy outlook comes a sprig of fresh air for the investors - expect a boom

http://www.nigeriapropertiesonline.com/

12

Castaway,

22/11/2007 02:54:39

Data loss official put in ‘safe house’ with bodyguard
The junior official at the centre of Britain's biggest data security scandal is being protected in a "safe house", it was claimed last night.
As Scotland Yard detectives continued their search for the confidential details of 25 million people, reports suggested the computer specialist had been given a 24-hour "minder" to shield him from media scrutiny and was being put up in a hotel in the North-east of England at taxpayers' expense.

The Herald - November 22 2007

13

An Australian of Scottish Ancestry,

22/11/2007 03:19:10

What would happen to an ordinary citizen who knowingly or unknowingly divulged sensitive government documents or national secrets to a foreign power or an offshore "rogue" ideological faction?

The first person who has their bank account raided or their details used to set up fake passports overseas should sue the arse off Broony to the last penny!

14

An Australian of Scottish Ancestry,

22/11/2007 03:28:35

The expression on Broon's complicit, unionist face [above] hardly conveys the 'profound regret' that we are expected to believe he has! It would be akin to suggesting that George Derble-ya Bush is sorry for invading Iraq!

Believe that and you'll believe anything.

15

Navvy,

22/11/2007 03:50:01

What is the point is calling HMRC? You will only, eventually, get a very junior clerk and official line stonewalling. Save your money and blood pressure, only call if you really feel like venting your spleen on the aforementioned clerk

16

Mad King Bambo,

Roon at Flabskin's bit 22/11/2007 04:10:31

#15 Good point. I mean, what are they going to tell you?

"Yes, we've lost all your details. Yes, we're very sorry. No, it's nobody's fault. No, nobody's going to pay any consequences, apart from one guy who's going to be allowed to retire ten years earlier than everybody else in the country, with a lump sum and a full index-linked pension..."

17

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

Like Gordon Brown 22/11/2007 04:25:47

Like Gordon Brown I profoundly apologise for voting for these people

18

Castaway,

22/11/2007 05:44:04

Those very important and highly sensitive data disks which the Home Office has lost, well here they are here:
Lost HMRC discs pop up on eBay.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/21/hmarc_ebay_auction/

19

Pilrig.,

Livingston 22/11/2007 06:14:44

How about apologising for ripping off the pensions.
Yer team got beat last night, Gordon but never mind.

20

Boy Wonder,

22/11/2007 06:22:34

I'm profoundly sorry I ever voted for this lot in past elections.

I'm NOT profoundly sorry I tore up my Labour Membership card and voted SNP instead!

21

Guga II,

Rockall 22/11/2007 06:30:30

Password protected discs. That should take the average high school kid about three minutes to crack.

Maggie Broon = Incompetent
his Darling = Incompetent
New Labour Numpty Party = Incompetent

22

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

22/11/2007 06:40:49

I profoundly apologise for everything I have done and things not yet in the public domain.

Tell that to the country with the worst life expectancy, standard of living ya bass

23

Ubi,

Edinburgh 22/11/2007 06:43:59

Not even this mea culpa could be accomplished without the spin of a planted question to manage proceedings at PMQs.

24

Disgrunted Ebardonian,

Edinburgh 22/11/2007 07:09:47

If the shoe was on the other foot so to speak25 Million families would be hauled up to court our feet would'nt touch the ground and jailed for life. But where the government is concerned Mr Brown gives a public apoligy "oops we made a cock-up please except our apoligy" end of story.

25

Disgrunted Ebardonian,

Edinburgh 22/11/2007 07:25:52

Does this mean we won't get our £10 Christmas Bonus??????

26

Murray in Canada,

Out here 22/11/2007 07:56:58

1 Paisley - who are these unnamed "senior managers" who gave the hapless underling instructions in "blatant breach" of security regs?? They should be named, and fired. Actually there's quite a few down there who should be drummed out of town. But no................

27

Roy,

22/11/2007 07:58:31

His 'apology' sounded like one of those meaningless announcements that you get at railway stations about train delays - with the word 'profoundly' inserted to try to make us believe that he was being... what?... profound perhaps?

28

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Don't follow any leader with GB initials. 22/11/2007 07:59:40

I'm glad he's sorry. We should all now kiss and make up and move on.

29

paulr,

22/11/2007 08:10:21

No surprises that a junior official is being used as a scapegoat and the government ( brown and Darling) are lying through their teeth to try and cover up the real story and protect the senior ratbags, err i mean officials.

30

Mercutio,

Falkirk 22/11/2007 08:21:51

It looks like we have purveyors of "terminological inexactitudes" in charge at Westminster and Holyrood.

31

jdships,

22/11/2007 08:22:54

Serious question !
" In whom we trust " What government CAN we trust ?
Is SNP administration any better than this pathetic lot ?
Time will tell

32

Cadgers,

Perth 22/11/2007 08:24:18

Westminster government? Farcical.
Where oh where is AM2 and his ilk telling us it's just a wee hiccup in the smooth running of the union? Quiet in here, innit?

33

Colin G,

Edinburgh 22/11/2007 08:53:20

This disgusting man thinks that he proved his 'competence' with the foot and mouth outbreak caused by his Government. That would be the one which has led to farmers across the country suffering financial crisis and widespread animal distress. He thinks that he proved his 'competence' with a photo opportunity where a river burst its banks.

He has been a disastrous Chancellor and so far has been an absymal Prime Minister. A war monger. A liar on the European Constitution. Creator of a credit crunch. Creator of the mess of the constitution particularly relating to Scotland.

Brown's only regret is that he may no longer be able to control the lives of people in this country if he is deservedly kicked out.

34

Dennis,

North Isles 22/11/2007 08:54:20

This is the government which wants to make us divulge everything about ourselves including our biometrics (and probably DNA profile) - to make a huge database for their use and 'safekeeping'.

Probably put Steve McLaren in charge - after all he will have the time and he is probably a safer pair of hands than the current bunch of incompetents.

The proposed new runway at heathrow will be completed just in time for all the people to fly out of here!

35

Jambo-ree,

22/11/2007 09:06:08

OK, leave aside the issue that it should not have been done sent in this way but how come TNT's part in this is not being highlighted? As the carrier, are they to escape censure totally?

Too many people trying to use this to attack the senior members of the government and too few the people actually involved.

36

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/11/2007 09:09:25

#5 Totally agree MKB - this is symtomatic of management throughout the public sector - I positive it would have happened whether or not restructuring had taken place.

37

Njal,

Edinburgh 22/11/2007 09:11:08

Can you actually get the files for 25 million people on two CDs? I think not.
If so, better check out eBay . . .

38

Bob Christie,

Fiefdom of Broon 22/11/2007 09:13:36

I am reminded of Macavity, TS Eliot's Mystery Cat

Macavity, Macavity, there's no one like Macavity
There never was a Cat of such deceitfulness and suavity.
He always has an alibi, and one or two to spare
At whatever time the deed took place - MACAVITY WASN'T THERE!

If Broon, Darling etc had any sense of decency they would take a leaf from their beloved England football team and EXIT!

39

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/11/2007 09:25:18

Anyone who thinks this is a one-off needs a reality check - and it's not just the public sector that loses data. Yesterday I did a quick check to find out companies and organisations worldwide that had lost personal data. I only went back a couple of years and the results were staggering - here's some of the examples I found:

* 31 July 2004 - Intuit loses personal data on 47000 customers
* 28 February 2005 - Bank of America loses data on 1.2m government credit cards
* 30 March 2005 - Mizuho Bank loses data on 270,000 clients
* 22 May 2006 - Thieves steal personal data of 26.5M US veterans
* 7 June 2005 - Citigroup loses data on 3.9m customers
* 30 December 2005 - Marriott loses data on 200,000 customers
* 24 February, 2006 - Deloitte and Touche lose data on 6,000 McAfee employees
* 1 June 2006 - Texas Guaranteed Student Loan Corp (USA) loses data on 1.3 million customers
* 6 November 2006 - Starbucks loses data on 60,000 staff
* 14 December 2006 - Boeing loses laptop with data on 382,000 employees
* 19 January 2007 - The Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC) reports a lost a backup drive containing information on approximately 470,000 clients
* 22 February 2007 - the FBI admits it lost 160 laptops in the previous 44 months
* 21 March 2007 - King's Mill Hospital in Sutton-in-Ashfield loses data on all children up to 8 years-old in the area
* 24 April 2007 - Neiman Marcus (USA) loses data on 160,000 employees
* 4 June 2007 - Bank of Scotland loses details of 62,000 mortgage customers in the post
* 7 August 2007 - Merrill Lynch ID theft affecting 33,000 employees
* 3 October 2007 - GAP loses data on 800,000 job applicants
* 17 October 2007 - Administaff Inc loses data on 159,000 current and former employees
* 1 November 2007 - Ohio Department of Insurance loses records of 9700 customers
* 6 November 2007 - HMRC admits to losing 15,000 people’s personal data

40

Jings Crivens,

Paisley 22/11/2007 09:31:18

Never in the field of Scotsman postrooms
Has so much rubbish and bigotry
Been posted by few

41

Homo Sapiens,

22/11/2007 09:31:34

When the safety and security of every child in this country, and the personal details, and financial security of every other person in the country is forever compromised, using words such as "inconvenience" and "profound apologies" is risible.

Had a similar mark of collosal catastrophic incompetence, mismanagement, and flauting of "customer" safety and personal details had occured in the Private Sector, the CEO and Board, as well as senior management would have had to go. Probably a "Care taker" management team would have been brought in to re-assure the clients that those who are responsible for the debacle can no longer cover their tracks, whitewash, and continue to play with the lives and "accounts" of their clients. This is the least we should expect of those in public office.

On a day when a football coach is paying with his job because 11 other highly paid men failed to win a game (of little consequence to anyone's life), we see that an wholly unfit for purpose government that has ruled incompetently for 11 years is holding on to power, is closing ranks, and is protecting its "coach", and insist that they will continue in developing the derided ID scheme in spite of public opposition. Since when have the Public and Civil Servants become the masters over the population which now clearly has lost its confidence in this bunch of incompetent corrupt party apparachicks?

42

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/11/2007 09:33:11

There has been a lot of talk about the information being misused - my own thoughts are that it won't be. How many of us have lost house keys or car keys but not had our house broken into or car stolen - lots I bet. It's the same here - anyone coming across the disks would need to know that it was the HMRC's disks in the first place. Unless they have been stolen to order I don't think we should be overly worried.

That is not complacency by the way - I still believe that people should be vigilant against anything untoward - not so much their bank accounts but getting a poor credit rating through ID theft.

43

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/11/2007 09:34:34

#42 It happens in the private sector all the time - see my list - no CEO of the organisations listed resigned over a data theft issue.

44

David MacVicar,

web 22/11/2007 09:49:10

We have went from a culture of blame to a culture of blameless.

This is like the election fiasco, many thousands or in this case millions of people impacted due to failures at multiple levels and nobody at the top held to account.

As things stand Blair should have said _ it wasnt me and denied all responsibility for Iraq.

Funny that the same names / circumstances keep appearing in these total screwups.

One isolated incident could be chance and a simple failure of procedure. Now we have had Scottish election fiasco, Northern rock, govenment institues causing disease outbreaks then not paying up and now this.

It is a shambles, a complete lack of prudency and good management and probably a desire to remain in power is at the heart of it all. The common denominator is the Nu Labour leadership every single time.

Yet they are blameless, well they can always be held to account at the ballot box, if its not been rigged that is.

45

Calum10,

22/11/2007 09:49:28

Gazza Broon has been exposed as an IDIOT.

46

rodm,

Durham 22/11/2007 09:49:58

10# have you noticed that the Met ARE the people investigating the missing discs, stand by postman pat meeting a horrible end!!

47

cjrc,

uk 22/11/2007 09:54:24

If ,I as a small business man said to the inland revenue or hmrc that I had lost some of my records they would hang me out to dry . and pursue me regardless of the cost or time involved .

48

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 22/11/2007 10:03:50

Lets put this in perspective.

As #43 says, its not the end of the world and it doesn't necessarily follow that everyone on the disk will suffer problems. There is also the scaremongering about breaking into bank accounts. That is not possible with the information contained on these disks.

However, goodbye gordon.

49

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 22/11/2007 10:11:09

This is the third time that data has been sent between these offices. What happened to the disks used for the earlier transfers ? Were they filed, binned, reused ?

50

wellwood,

ayr 22/11/2007 10:17:22

Hang your head in DISGRACE Mr Brown.
You and your whole cabinet are bereft of a single shred of Honour.
This CABAL called New Labour has wrecked a Proud party with a noble social- history.
The time has now come for the electorate to cast- out this bunch of chancers, before they totally wreck our society.

51

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/11/2007 10:18:13

#50 With the information they can only pay into your bank account - the biggest danger is that ID thiefs can add to information they already have to steal your identity.

But as I have pointed out elsewhere there are bigger dangers to ID theft such as data miners, spybots and phishing e-mails.

52

Homo Sapiens,

22/11/2007 10:21:28

The Federalist (40,43,44) - You must be a government apologist. You fail to consider the following:

1) The scale of the security breach. With 50% of the UK population exposed, a comparable debacle would be if the USA'a IRS (the equivalent of the Inland Revenue) would release the details of 160 MILLION PEOPLE. None of the cases you list comes even close in its proportion of the security breach to that of the HMRC/Treasury, not by a long shot. I doubt you have examined closely the outcomes on all the security breaches you list, and can comment about how many people lost their jobs over it (or their level in the organisation).

2) the fact the people who lose their keys don't get their house burgled is primarily because their name and address (as well as other details) are not attached to their keys making it impossible for a thief to find the location. But of course you are missing the point aren't you? The fact that data which is supposed to be held and protected with the highest degree of security, is so open, and easily accessible that a $13,000 a year 23 year old can access it and download it, in its entirety, without the data even being missed or detected as missing (the alarm was raised by the NAO who have not received the data they were expecting). This is a mark of grave and very serious disregard to the most private personal details of the people of this country.

Can you in your wisdom (and great research) tell me how many people in government who earn $13,000 and above have access to my personal details, and have the ability to sell this information to anyone offering them a tenner for it? Can you tell me how many times a day this personal information of every UK resident is being accessed for ilegal or "unofficial" reasons?

You obviously fail to understand the value of this information to petty criminals and to "big" organised crime, as you fail to understand the damage it does, and potential for dama

53

Flying Saltire,

Dunbar 22/11/2007 10:27:39

Keep up the good work "one eyed gunner!" You haven't a clue!
The deeper in the mire you drag the pseudo psocies, the simpler for the Scottish electorate to realise independence is well and truly a must from this and all Westminster idiocy!

54

Doh,

22/11/2007 10:29:50

#2

It does seem incredible that a top civil servant is paid £170K a year, resigns then expects an early retirement package.

This is a real story that the government can actually do something about.

Civil servants should retire at 65. If they retire before 65 they should get no more that one quarter of their pension until they reach 65.

This would just be an intermediate step, All new public sector employees should enjoy the benefit of a money purchase pension plan. Surely they want that? Much better than an inflation proof government pension surely? I would imagine the unions will demand this as a matter of fairness.

How many other employees get early retirements deals when they resign. I would have thought if you resigned, or were sacked as this guy should have been, you would not be rewarded for it.

Fat cat culture strikes again.

55

Doh,

22/11/2007 10:32:26

#20

You should be profoundly sorry,

But now our are lettign history repeat itself and are compouding your mistake.

More fool you.

56

conservative,

Fife 22/11/2007 10:38:45

You would have thought that any attempt to copy the whole database or access a large section of it should have been arranged to trigger an alarm to a senior person for authorisation.

I just can't understand the primitive level of security that seems to have been implemented.

57

Remember 1820,

Glasgow 22/11/2007 10:48:49

Let's get real here.

We are talking about millions of peoples personal identity here, and their bank security, etc, etc. In other words their lives, for as long as they live.
It is very serious indeed !.

And it's not only Mr Darling who should resign, it is also Mr Gordon Brown as he is the man in charge, and was involved in setting up the systems and giving it the ok.

This appears to be run by the same company who ran the election in May.

It appears that the DWP asked for people’s names and National Insurance Numbers ONLY, and was given the COMPLETE data on millions of people. Seemingly this was cheaper than filtering the data, which they should have done.

Very few people should have access to this information, and should not be able to access it, and remove it, without the highest security authority.

It really is basic computer security and Government must take their responsibilities seriously.

This could cost the Government, ie. you and me Billions of pounds.

And these are the same people who want to make it mandatory for people to give them all of their personal data, in the form of a Biological ID Card.

In the old system it is possible that you could eventually get a new account and password when things go wrong.

In the new Biological ID Card system, how is it possible to go out and get a new set of eyes or fingerprints if things go wrong.

Think about it !.

We haven't heard the last of this one yet.

.

58

Publius,

London 22/11/2007 10:49:02

I'm beginning to think that Cameron won't be the next PM. It may be Balls or Milliband - and before the general election too.

59

George Mackay,

Dundee 22/11/2007 10:52:10

I saw some bairns using CDs as frisbees the other day near a kirk in Broughty Ferry and there was a TNT van parked nearby.

60

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 22/11/2007 10:52:27

there's been a lot of irresponsible reporting on this, the tv only seeming interested in the worst case scenario, with only occasional mentions of "admittedly, there's no actual evidence that your details have been stolen by neo-nazi child pornographing drug barons, who are going to do some islamist bombings that you will get blamed for..."

61

GP,

22/11/2007 10:54:30

A lot of people are missing one big point here.
I cringe at the thought of the National AUDIT Office actually asking for this data and accepting it's receipt in such an out of date insecure way.
The NAO is not fit for purpose either. It should have dictated the rules governing the sending of private data. It should have dictated the methodology.
As for HMRC - if this guy can access all the data then there is a major flaw in theur system designs and access rights. At 23 he is certainly not an IT Specialist as described.
The cost issue is an intersting angle. I believe HMRC has outsourced to EDS for some years now.
EDS as part of their contract should have not allowed this level of access nor the downloading or copying of such data without very senior authority underwritten processes in place.
TNT - a courier should never be used for sending data. There is adequate very highly secure data sending software available that would have been quicker, encrypted and managed.
I got a quote for this and was pleasantly surprised at the low costs involved.
I would suggest that both the HMRC and NAO install this asap.

https://www.stonebranch.com/stonebranch_com/about-us/solu...

Anyone else worried should contact the above to secure their data.

62

McNasty,

Edinburgh 22/11/2007 11:04:03

Has GB, MP and PM of GB had his DNA taken yet?

This is a PM in the death throes of his premiership. Let us hope he stays until the bitter end until he takes his party with him to hell.

63

TONYVGLIDER,

ALICANTE SPAIN 22/11/2007 11:23:09

YET ANOTHER REASON TO DESPISE THIS GHASTLY LOT OF SOCIALIST INCOMPETENTS WHO ONLY KNOW HOW TO LINE THEIR OWN POCKETS, TAX US TO RUIN AND THEN BLOW THE PROCEEDS ON HUGELY INNEFICIENT EXERCISES....SO GLAD I NO LONGER LIVE HERE....

64

gwp,

Lockerbie 22/11/2007 11:24:31

Meanwhile, the junior official - who has not yet been named - at the centre of the row was believed to be in a "safe house".

Could the poor IT guy who is carrying the can be in 'protective' custody to prevent him telling the truth to the media?

The failure here is the management - The NAO requested sanitised data at a high level and the managers have made the descision to give it all away - doesn't it just fill you with confidence in all the restrictive security measures the 'mad broon' wants to impose on all of us!

65

kimba,

22/11/2007 11:31:42

Inconvenience is when you miss the bus home,I think this goes way past a "Inconvenience" for these poor peaple.

66

Charlie Dog,

Lincolnshire 22/11/2007 11:37:24

Reading through the post each morning. It's certainly comes across that there is a majority of Poster's have a dislike and in some cases a hate of anything English. I would like to remind these people that the bumbling baffoons in in power in this great country of ours is lead by Scotsmen. Not exactly a good advertisment for your great and proud people

67

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/11/2007 11:41:12

#54 Sorry but you are so wrong - did you know you can access the data that the disks held on certain paid-for internet sites?

What fekks me off are sc remongeringh fekkwits like you blowing this out of all proportion about what can and can't be done with the information.

I repeat - NO ONE CAN ACCESS YOUR BANK ACCOUNT WITH THE INFORMATION!!

Oh and by the way - my name and wife and children's names will be in the data - so I have no reason to be an apologist as you so bluntly put it. What I do have is a sense of proportion about the information - which is more than a moron like you seems to have.

68

Ayrshire Scot™,

22/11/2007 11:45:56

65 Good grief, I agree with Kimba, again. Imust be looking at this wrong

69

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/11/2007 11:54:10

#54 To add for a simpleton like you - the biggest threat to anyone's personal data (in no particular order):

* shop assistants (or other service providers - restaurants abroad being a favourite) taking note of your credit card details when you are not paying attention
* data miners and spybots sending back information from your PC to ID thiefs
* people registering details at websites that do not have Transport Layer Security
* sophisticated phishing scams - not your normal Nigerian e-mails but ones that are supposedly security updates but in fact install data miners and spybots

A short article from PC Pro highlighted the issue (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/110472/whos-the-biggest-t...). A few extracts:

"Yet the stark reality of ID theft is even more alarming. Take a (not so) anonymous colleague of ours here at Dennis Publishing, who was approached out of the blue by a "data miner" with a huge dossier of information about him including his home address, journey to work, job, salary and intimate personal details of his life. All of it dredged from the internet without much effort.

The amount of personal information we voluntarily place online without any apparent thought for the security consequences is shocking. This was highlighted by Infosecurity Europe research last year, when commuters at London's Victoria station were asked to part with personal information for the chance to win a chocolate egg. Every single respondent gave their address and postcode, 90% home telephone number, 82% date of birth, 80% mother's maiden name, and 86% their pet's name. On social networking sites, people don't even need the chocolate incentive to part with sensitive details.

Companies can use this data to conduct checks on potential employees, criminals can use it for ID fraud, the mentally unbalance

70

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/11/2007 11:57:38

(continued)

Then there are the social network spies:

'The advent of sites such as MySpace, LinkedIn, Friends Reunited, Bebo and millions of deeply personal blogs has seen people inadvertently putting huge amounts of personal data online that can be collated into disturbingly detailed profiles. Spend half a day following your own trail on these sites and you'll soon realise that it's ridiculously easy for anyone to garner your date of birth, interests, names of friends and family, occupation, education, home and business address, names and ages of your children...

"As we grow up, we're told not to trust strangers, but Web 2.0 is all about meeting strangers, building relationships and sharing experiences," says Greg Day, security analyst at McAfee and member of the Cyber Security Industry Alliance (CSIA). "Many of us are over-willing to post information about ourselves, and the technology excites us into sharing this online." A dangerous thrill when you consider that in recent weeks the McAfee Avert Labs (www.mcafee.com/us/threat_center) has seen information, such as MySpace data, being openly sold on the dark underbelly of the web.

While this is disturbing, it's worth remembering that much of the information found on social networking sites is what's known as "second tier", meaning it can be used to gain confidence, but not to validate identity on its own. Gather enough pieces together, though, and "a competent social engineer could easily validate the information and use it to gain more valuable information," warns Steven Cox, principal security consultant with Computer Associates.

Wandering around multiple online communities gathering information might be the modus operandi for the cyber-stalker or occasional background checker, but it would be highly unproductive for the professional identity criminal. So what techniques do

71

Mad King Bambo,

Roon at Flabskin's bit 22/11/2007 11:57:41

#67 Federalist

AS one of the 'scaremongers', I'm deeply impressed by your sang-froid.

Could you put your money where your mouth is, and post the following information on this thread for yourself, your wife, and your child: your name, date of birth, national insurance number, bank name, sort code and account number.

Unless you would rather not, of course.

72

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/11/2007 12:01:44

#72 MKB - you've probably not read #70 & #70 yet so I'll keep this brief - my own view is that whilst this breach of personal data security is unacceptable we should be aware that there are bigger breaches than this that go on day to day with our full co-operation.

73

Gorgon,

Glasgow 22/11/2007 12:03:04

#49

Believe it or not I once attended a commissioners meeting re a tax appeal and was informed that correspondence, which I maintained had not reached me, must have been delivered to me as there is a 'return to sender address' on the envelope in case if non delivery, and it had not been returned to the Inland Revenue. The commissioners decided this to be fact and found against me.

Therefore, I expect the missing discs to be returned shortly. Aye,,,right.

74

Doh,

22/11/2007 12:13:18

Since i am now being censored by the Scotsman I would just like
to say farewell and wish you all the best.

AM2 and that Nats as well.

Farewell.

75

The Master,

22/11/2007 12:20:01

The quality of journalism on display in this article is quite frankly lamentable.

Exhibit 1:
“The weekend's opinion polls will be nail-biting reading for the government.”

The grasp of political theory here is practically non existent. Does the writer really think that short term “blips” in opinion polls as a result of an admittedly catastrophic bureaucratic mishap can affect long term trends in public opinion? To compare this to the Tories’ “Black Wednesday” is to blow the whole issue out of all proportion, because the Tories’ misfortune were the result of policy failure, whereas this problem has more to do with procedural issues.

Exhibit 2:
“No-one has called for Mr Brown or Mr Darling to resign. This is bad news: it suggests the situation is so serious that one or both of them might have to go even without the intervention of the opposition.”

The writer seems to think that he’s being extremely insightful here, but in actual fact he’s making a fool of himself. Granted, Darling is going to have to formulate his policy towards Northern Rock with great care, but this is hardly in the same league.
I bought “the Times” today (mainly, I admit, for London the film reviews), but I am also becoming increasingly contemptuous of the journalistic standards in this rag. Expect circulation of this regional broadsheet, which has unfulfilled ambitions to brand itself “national” in a Scottish context, to continue to fall.

76

Mad King Bambo,

Roon at Flabskin's bit 22/11/2007 12:29:24

#73

So are you going to post the data or not?

77

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/11/2007 12:38:13

#76 So my employers know I'm in here?

#You've got to be joking!!!

On a serious point MKB - have you any comment about the other threats to personal data?

Also there is a positive from this whole affair - the proposed National Identity Card scheme is now for all intents and purposes (despite Darlings protestations) dead in the water.

78

Methspaña,

22/11/2007 12:48:00

77. pehman, sussex / 12:34pm 22 Nov 2007

"I've just heard that there has been another leak from a government department-- Foot and mouth again !"

G Brown only opens his mouth to change feet.

79

connaughtboy,

22/11/2007 12:57:32

Bye bye Broon!!

80

kimba,

22/11/2007 13:09:18

We are surrounded by incompedent baffoons,why don't the opposition parties have a no confidence vote on this truly awful government.

81

Mad King Bambo,

Roon at Flabskin's bit 22/11/2007 13:14:18

#78

"On a serious point MKB - have you any comment about the other threats to personal data?"

I haven't been through them all, but in principle - no. Reason being that there are three categories of critical personal data threat:

1. Stuff that's within my control
2. Stuff that's within the control of a private individual or organisation who can be held legally responsible for any leak and be made to compensate for any damage done.
3. Stuff that's held by governmental agencies, who in the case of any leak will offer 'a profound apology for the incovenience caused'

Would you like to even hazard a guess as to how many tens of thousand of public sector jobsworths could download information that could be used to compromise your identity and burn it onto a CD, without anybody giving a flying f*ck?

I haven't a clue. And I'll tell you who