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Independence takes a back seat



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Published Date: 03 January 2008
HAROLD WILSON famously said a week is a long time in politics – so how about a year? Twelve months ago, everyone knew there was going to be a Scottish Parliament election in May, but not many thought it would lead to Scotland's first SNP government. Who knows what the next 12 months will hold?
This time last year, even many senior Nationalists did not dream they were about to see the end of Labour's half-century dominance of Scottish politics and Alex Salmond installed in Bute House.

The margin of victory was small – the SNP secured jus
t one seat more than Labour and its lead in the constituency vote was less than one per cent.

But that does not alter the fact it was a dramatic and historic change – and ironically achieved during the 300th anniversary of the Union between Scotland and England.

Mr Salmond has played the result for all it's worth, hailing the SNP's election win along with Scottish football victories and the successful Commonwealth Games as all reflecting what he likes to call "the mood of optimism sweeping the country".

And his government has made an impressive start, with big announcements – scrapping tolls on the Forth Road Bridge, promising to abolish the graduate endowment fee, phasing out prescription charges and more.

But Mr Salmond and his colleagues know they are in power not because people voted for independence, but because they voted for a change of government.

And persuading people to back the SNP's main objective of a go-it-alone Scotland presents a major challenge.

Mr Salmond's declared intention is to show the SNP can govern well under devolution and then put the case for Scotland gaining the same powers as other nations – but if he does too good a job, he risks voters concluding that the present arrangements are quite satisfactory.

When the Nationalists took up the reins of power, many predicted they would not last long. Some crucial issue – or even not a particularly crucial one – would lead to a vote of confidence and Mr Salmond would be forced into an early election or coalition talks with the Liberal Democrats or making way for Labour and the Lib Dems to resume control.

Well, that hasn't happened and it doesn't look like it's going to. Indeed, some pundits now predict another, improved SNP victory at the next Scottish Parliament elections in 2011.

Labour is currently in no shape to take over the helm. After the election result, it was inevitable that Jack McConnell would stand down – there could be no attraction for him in serving as leader of the opposition after five and a half years as First Minister. But his successor Wendy Alexander has struggled to make an impact in admittedly difficult circumstances – Labour MSPs have found it extremely hard to accept the fact they are no longer in power.

She also suffered the embarrassment of having two spin doctors resign after just weeks in the job.

Then she was hit by the row over the illegal donation to her leadership campaign from a Jersey-based businessman.

The heat has gone out of that row for the moment, while the Electoral Commission investigates, but it has damaged a party which was already badly bruised.

The Lib Dems were less used to power, having been on the margins of Scottish politics until devolution catapulted them into coalition. But they too have found it difficult to adjust to being in opposition.

The Tories, on the other hand, are delighted with the change of power because it allows them to prove their previously unconvincing thesis that it's not necessary to be in government to influence policy at Holyrood. They find SNP ministers much more accessible than the Labour and Lib Dem ones they replaced. And while making sure they keep up public criticism of Mr Salmond and his regime, the Tories have established good relations behind the scenes.

The Greens went into the May elections confident of increasing their seven-strong contingent of MSPs, but ended up being reduced to just two.

At least they have maintained a foothold – unlike the Scottish Socialists and Solidarity, who lost all their seats.

And the tight arithmetic in the parliament means their votes can be crucial – but so far there have been few opportunities for demanding major concessions as a price for their support.

The SNP minority government has survived well so far and apart from questions over his role in the controversial Donald Trump golf course plan, Mr Salmond's performance as First Minister has been impressive. The state of the Labour Party and the Tories' eagerness to stay on good terms with the government means a united opposition front is unlikely on most issues.

But if Mr Salmond brings forward legislation for an independence referendum, he may well find it's a different story.

The irony of the SNP's position is that while people appear happy to see it running the country, there still seems no majority – among MSPs or the voters – for the policy which is its raison d'etre.



The full article contains 845 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 January 2008 11:43 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Ian Swanson
 
1

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA GU BRATH 03/01/2008 09:47:42
Do try and catch up. Your information is 6 months out of date. If a general election were called toemorrow the SNP could hold the balance of power in the UK and decimate the Unionist vote. The freedom express is rolling and can only gain momentum with journalism like this thanks.


ALBA GU BRATH.


2

Grahamski,

Falkirk 03/01/2008 10:02:11
Alba Gu Brath? What on earth does that mean?
3

JimC,

Kilmarnock 03/01/2008 10:04:07
Sounds like a round up to end the year, seems everyone is doing it, but the story title is a little short sighted. Next thing you know the Scotsman will be saying the SNP did not deliver all its manifesto promises in the first 100 days. This newspapers anti-independence stance will come back and bite them, that's my prediction for the next few years, circulation will continue to fall, online news and blogs will dominate in a society that demands immediate access to news and the ability to interact with those reporting the stories of the day.
4

mr angry,

ayrshire 03/01/2008 10:06:47
#2 Scotland for Ever
5

Grahamski,

falkirk 03/01/2008 10:14:17
What language - Klingon?
6

Methalions,

03/01/2008 10:25:32
Are Klingons the same as piles?
7

,

03/01/2008 10:29:18
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8

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 03/01/2008 10:33:40
# 5 Grahamski - Where is the name from, Russia?

No need to insult your native language, assuming you are Scottish. Anyway Klingon is nothing like Gaelic.
9

Grahamski,

Falkirk 03/01/2008 10:39:18
Ken Mac,
Like the overwhelming majority of Scots my native language is English. I've never spoken gaelic nor have my ancesters, I have no interest in speaking it and challenge anybody who suggests it is 'Scotland's' language. Who called Scotland Alba by the way and why would a modern Scot call their country Alba?
More dodgy history and petty nationalism from the lunatic fringe.
10

,

03/01/2008 10:47:30
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11

Grahamski,

Falkirk 03/01/2008 10:49:59
It doesn't?
12

Methalions,

03/01/2008 11:08:16
No.
13

Grahamski,

Falkirk 03/01/2008 11:11:22
Oh well maybe somebody can cut and paste it into the Herald thread then....
14

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 03/01/2008 11:17:06
#9 Grahamski - Gaelic was spoken by most Scots at one time. What language did your ancestors speak? Mine certainly spoke Gaelic. 'why would a modern Scot call their country Alba?' Why do the Irish call Ireland, Eire when they all speak English? English may be the modern tongue of most Scots but it isn't their native tongue. Nothing dodgy about the history, no petty nationalism. Only loony here is you.
15

Grahamski,

Falkirk 03/01/2008 11:21:38
Ken Mac,
Don't know what history books you're reading but Gaelic was never spoken in large swathes of Scotland. It is not and never was my native tongue nor the native tongue of most Scots. To suggest otherwise is just plain wrong. It does however, fit in with a romanticised idea of a Scottish past that lives only in the imagination of the deluded or Hollywood film producers.
16

JohnMcDonald,

London 03/01/2008 11:21:46
#9
If you are from Falkirk then you may be interested to know (but probably not given your temperament) that gaelic was spoken there - albeit a few hundred years ago - and if you actually listen to how people speak in the High Street you will hear its influence still.

Heated political debate is one thing but to deny one's past will only lead you to the therapist's couch.

17

,

03/01/2008 11:24:20
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18

Methalions,

03/01/2008 11:28:50
Grahamski

**************MOD 2008***********

Falkirk Council and the local Falkirk Branch of An Comunn Gaidhealach are currently co-ordinating arrangements for MOD 2008 FALKIRK.

“THE MOD IS COMING HOME”
To some 'The Mod is coming home' might seem a curious slogan to use as the Mod has never been held in Falkirk before however the slogan arises from the annual Trysts that were held in Falkirk over the centuries where drovers and cattle dealers from all over the Highlands and Islands would converge on the town to buy and sell their livestock. The Mod is Coming Home because the whole concept of the Highland Gathering had originated in Falkirk.

Read all about your local history on

http://www.mod2008falkirk.org/
19

Methalions,

03/01/2008 11:30:16
or if you prefer...

“Tha Am MOD a’Tighinn Dhachaigh” (The MOD is coming home)

Tha Comhairle na h-Eaglais Brice is Meur Ionadail na h-Eaglaise Brice den Chomunn Ghaidhealach a’ cur air bhonn phlanaichean a cho-eagrachadh reitichean airson Mod na h-Eaglaise Brice 2008

Faodaidh cuid a bhith den bheachd gur e shluagh-ghairm neonach a tha ga chleachdadh on nach robh am Mod riamh roimhe san Eaglais Bhric. Ge-ta, tha an sluagh-ghairm ag eirigh bho Feilltean bhliadhnail a bha air an cumail san Eaglais Bhric thar na linntean far am biodh drobhairean is fir-mhalairt chruidh as gach cearn den Ghaidhealtachd is as na h-Eileanan a’ co-aomadh air a’bhaile a cheannach is a reic an cuid stuic. Tha am Mod A’Tighinn Dhachaigh a chionn gum b’ ann san Eaglais Bhric a thainig bun-bheachd a’ Chruinneachaidh Ghaidhealaich am bith.
20

Methalions,

03/01/2008 11:39:04
Ach. Grahamski's on the Herald as Graham spouting the same tripe.
21

Grahamski,

Falkirk 03/01/2008 11:42:54
Thank you to all you googlers out there. I may live in Falkirk but I and my ancestors are from the North East where gaelic was not spoken. As regards hearing echoes of gaelic in Falkirk High Street, I suspect I would hear more Latin and Greek than Gaelic. It is interesting however how gaelic, a minority language which is dead is being resurrected and forced upon an unwilling and uninterested public by zealots who would distort history to their own political ends.
22

,

03/01/2008 11:45:45
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23

Methalions,

03/01/2008 11:52:02
Ah Grahamski....

I wonder if I know you. I worked and lived in Falkirk for 26 years. (I've never been to a MOD though).

Arab Strap no?
24

Ken Mac,

Glasgow. 03/01/2008 11:53:22
Well Grahamski looks like your wrong again according to the other posters. I've been to Falkirk you know, dont remember hearing any Greek or Latin. Anyway enjoy the Mod. You still haven't told us what language your ancestors did speak.
25

Grahamski,

Falkirk 03/01/2008 11:53:31
I agree totally and we may as well include Urdu, Mandarin and Polish too.
26

Grahamski,

Falkirk 03/01/2008 12:04:01
Ken Mac,
Wrong again according to the lunatic fringe? I'm glad to be wrong, belive me. In the meantime back in the real world of normal Scots, how long before the huge majority are put off the cause of independence by this nonsense? It's like making Moira Anderson compulsory! Bring it on, the sooner the better and we can see what lurks behind Mr Salmond et al's (that's Latin, Ken, in Falkirk too) mask of responsibility.
27

,

03/01/2008 12:18:09
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,

03/01/2008 12:19:48
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29

Grahamski,

Falkirk 03/01/2008 12:21:39
I wouldn't teach gaelic in schools, no. I'd rather my kids were taught to speak a language that is relevant to them (ie any modern European or Asian language). In fact if they were to be taught a dead language I would prefer they studied Latin or Greek as it would be more useful to them.
30

druidh,

edinburgh 03/01/2008 12:49:08
The Unionist parties missed their big opportunity. They should have pushed for an immediate referendum on Independence in May. The Scottish electorate would have baulked at the idea and it would have been parked for a while. However, as support for the SNP Govt increases, a Yes vote becomes more likely.

Were they really THAT scared??
31

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 03/01/2008 12:50:36
Facts are chiels: all indigenous Britons spoke Britonic from Land's End to Muckle Flugga (or megalithic equivalent). Gaelic indeed carries the memory of that language. Many local dialects, of course, but shared roots. True Brits share Brit genes. This excludes invading aliens such as Saxons, Scotti, Normans, and all the post WW2 invasion.
32

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03/01/2008 12:54:21
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33

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 12:55:55
Grahamski - any thoughts on the points in the article?

"it was a dramatic and historic change "

"And his government has made an impressive start, with big announcements – scrapping tolls on the Forth Road Bridge, promising to abolish the graduate endowment fee, phasing out prescription charges and more."

"Labour is currently in no shape to take over the helm"
34

Peter,

Looking over the heads of Unionist dwarfs 03/01/2008 13:05:15
I like the idea that the Electoral Commission has 'taken the heat out' of Wendy's criminal actions.

Given their Chief Advisor is a Labour make weight are we surprised that she has not been nicked yet - you or me would have been in front of the beaks a month ago for a committal hearing.

Simply because the Hootsmon has stopped reporting on the issue does not mean the heat has been taken out of it. It is just one of many skeletons falling out of Labour in Scotland's closets and as more councils fall from Labour control I do not doubt that there are more Tammany Hall exposes to come!
35

,

03/01/2008 13:10:15
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36

bill-alba,

fife 03/01/2008 13:29:57
Grahamski...you can keep your head buried under the sand for as long as you want...but gaelic is coming to a location near you whether you like it or not...and sorry but you are wrong gaelic was spoken everywhere in scotland albeit a long time ago
37

,

03/01/2008 13:37:15
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38

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 13:38:18
37 Chairman Gordon arrogantly opined, on the assumption he knows what every voter thought...(as usual)

Chairman's G observation no doubt explains why the SNP is the largest party in local government, with more councillors than any other party, and why they won the Scottish election and continue to surge in the polls. All down to two disgruntled smokers the Chairman G met outside his local.
39

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 13:39:09
39 Chairman Gordon arrogantly opined, taking it upon himself to speak for everyone he doesn't know (as usual)
40

,

03/01/2008 13:41:37
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41

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 13:45:00
45 How do you know I don't? I may have relatives, friends etc in Stirling....

So, are we to believe the SNP won the Scottish election and councils the length and breadth of Scotland due to disgruntled smokers? And why do you make yourself sound so pompous and arrogant by disclaiming on behalf of everyone you don't know (e.g no normal person wants Gaelic taught, everyone voted in your ward on smoking issue.....?)
42

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 13:45:51
44 I never diclaim my opinion and attribute it to every other voter in Scotland. I am not a Brit Nat unionist like you.....
43

,

03/01/2008 13:47:30
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44

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 13:47:36
43 There he goes again. Speaking for the "vast majority" - how very unionist of him. One wonders why we even need elections - we could just get Chairman Gordon to disclaim the thinking of the "vast majority" on any given issue and save alot of time and expense.
45

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 13:49:51
50 There you again again, imagining yourself to be the centre of all thinking. Now you just sound like a silly-old-billy (as usual). My comments above on the thread predate the arrival of your Socratic and weighty contributions, summarising as they do the thinking of the "vast majority".

What do you think of these points:
"it was a dramatic and historic change "

"And his government has made an impressive start, with big announcements – scrapping tolls on the Forth Road Bridge, promising to abolish the graduate endowment fee, phasing out prescription charges and more."

"Labour is currently in no shape to take over the helm"
46

,

03/01/2008 13:49:56
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47

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 13:51:05
43 CG

if it isn't a "major issue" for the "vast majority" that you speak for, why did the unionists set up their commission?
48

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 13:53:10
56 CG says "However, I know what people have been openly saying since."

Are these people whom you have over-heard the "vast majority" that you mentioned before?

You could hardly know what people had been saying secretly now could you? Unless you have been spying on them?
49

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 13:54:32
59 CG "It isn't a major issue for the vast majority of the electorate."

Weird that they elected the SNP. And that Unionists have formed a commission. If only they knew that you had a Delphic facility, a telepathic hot-line and opinion summary service, they could have asked you what everyone thought?
50

,

03/01/2008 13:55:34
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51

Miss Jean Brodie,

03/01/2008 14:13:52
Unlike the Scotsman Scarepaper - I have been to the future and their was no United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - I don’t want to ruin it for everyone - so I won’t tell you all what I found !
52

Alex,

Ayr 03/01/2008 14:27:48
Chairman..lie down son...yir heid's nearly through yir neebors ceiling
53

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 14:28:32
65 It is through his neighbour's ceiling. That is how he knows what everyone is saying.
54

,

03/01/2008 14:33:41
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55

,

03/01/2008 14:36:35
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Methalions,

03/01/2008 14:46:32
Chairman

I leave the thread for a lunch and I come back to see you & Ayrshire squabbling again. Tsk tsk.

Apropos not receiving a choice for O grades, I couldn't have chosen Gaelic as it wasn't on offer in my school. For some weird reason I ended up doing Latin, French & Greek.
57

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03/01/2008 14:53:15
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58

Methalions,

03/01/2008 14:53:34
Chairman

Hmm..but you'll be a bit stuck once we have the Gaelic Uprising.

;-)
59

Methalions,

03/01/2008 14:55:52
Latin & Greek helped my becoming excellent at English.

ps...if your fight with Ayrshire continues, I'll hauderim if you heiderim.
60

,

03/01/2008 14:57:14
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61

Methalions,

03/01/2008 14:57:26
Has this got anything to do with the article?
62

,

03/01/2008 14:58:35
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,

03/01/2008 14:59:24
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64

,

03/01/2008 15:03:35
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65

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 15:08:37
80 Let people speak for themselves you say Chairman Gordon? How about starting with the "vast majority" you keep citing in your contributions?
66

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03/01/2008 15:10:55
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67

Methalions,

03/01/2008 15:10:56
Aargh.

The last school I worked in used to offer Latin, German & French. Each year the numbers for Latin dropped and eventually it wasn't viable to offer it. We then offered Spanish. Everyone wanted it and after the first year we had to employ another Spanish teacher.

Upshot? No-one in the school now studies German. Supply & demand.
68

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03/01/2008 15:16:20
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69

revsween,

03/01/2008 15:21:31
I thought the language of the Scots up to the 11th century was what we now call welsh ?
70

,

03/01/2008 15:22:26
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 15:23:07
85 Gordy Babey

I have never claimed " a vast majority" support independence. I am not so presumptious as to claim to know what millions of people think. I just pointed out the SNP got the most votes in the parliament and lcoal government elections in 2007 making them the biggest party.

I support a referendum on independence to let the people speak for themselves. Do you?
72

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 15:28:27
96 Gordy dude

I don't think so. All democrats would accept the result of a free and fair referendum. Anyone who wouldn't isn't a democrat and shouldn't be engaged in political coversation.
73

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03/01/2008 15:33:08
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 15:34:25
99 Gordy babey

the web blogs are self selecting and there are lunactics and obscurantists on both sides (you may be familiar with Kimba and her ilk) - letting them frame the terms of reference of discussion, as you seem to be doing, seems to serve their purposes?
75

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 15:37:25
103.Ah, but surely it for the majority (vast or otherwise) who live here to decide what powers are exercised by which of their elected bodies?
76

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03/01/2008 15:37:43
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 15:37:51
104 I wasn't patronising.
78

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03/01/2008 15:39:13
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Methalions,

03/01/2008 15:39:29
100
Chairman Gordon,

"Is Meth topping up his wine glass or summat?"

In the words of another poster, "How very dare you?"

I've been checking the Herald. Another story (prescription charges) was hijacked into a Gaelic thing.
Apparently I am good at annoying anyone on any thread. What's UP with me? Yesterday I was standing up for smokers' rights then WHAM....attacked by he health fascists.
80

Methalions,

03/01/2008 15:41:42
103
Chairman Gordon,

"A bit like the Swiss Cantons, if you like."

I don't suppose that was the European spin-off of "The Waltons?" Thought not.

Tum-te-tum...whom to annoy...whom to annoy...so many posters..so little time.
81

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 15:43:41
111 I agree.
82

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 15:43:54
112. I agree
83

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03/01/2008 15:46:35
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 15:46:59
115. Could be your habit of speaking on behalf of "vast majorities"? Just a thought... :-)
85

pehman,

sussex 03/01/2008 15:50:18
From the article;-

When the Nationalists took up the reins of power, many predicted they would not last long. Some crucial issue – or even not a particularly crucial one – would lead to a vote of confidence and Mr Salmond would be forced into an early election or coalition talks with the Liberal Democrats or making way for Labour and the Lib Dems to resume control.
-------------------
So Mr Swansong you admit labour arrogance and conciet not to mention petulence, but then you come up with this-----

Mr Salmond's declared intention is to show the SNP can govern well under devolution and then put the case for Scotland gaining the same powers as other nations –

[nothing wrong here but the best is yet to come]

but if he does too good a job, he risks voters concluding that the present arrangements are quite satisfactory.

HA HA hope springs eternal, maybe the SNP should take a leaf out of wee joke's book and try to do less better. And wee joke did less, better than anyone

86

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03/01/2008 15:52:56
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Rob - Honest Toun,

Musselburgh 03/01/2008 15:53:33
Scots an Gaelic are baith Scotland's vernacular languages. Scottish Standard English wis imposed aroond 1845 when government schuil inspectors wis sent roond tae mak siccar baith teachers an bairns juist spake English in the clessroom. This wis follaed in 1872 wi the Liberal government's Education Act that laid doon English as the only leid alloued tae be spoken in aw Scottish schuils. Fowk speaks English noo cause Liberal politicians said this wis hou it wis gaun tae be. Falkirk comes frae the Scots Fawkirk meanin a mony coloured church.
88

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03/01/2008 15:56:05
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89

Methalions,

03/01/2008 16:05:47
124, 125 & 126

He can sometimes be rather pleasant.
90

 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 16:06:28
127 Was my charm wot did it
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03/01/2008 16:16:23
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03/01/2008 16:22:26
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Andrew D,

03/01/2008 16:48:51
(Speaking of Wendy Alexander's admission of criminal act) "The heat has gone out of that row for the moment"

Aye and why would that be? Oh yeah, because you and the rest of the press are towing the party line and keeping schtum on it.

Mustn't talk about a Labour leader publically admitting doing a criminal act. (But she didn't mean it you know)

Oh and fellows and fellettes, those dozen or two posts to and fro on Gaelic is just freakin weird.
94

Methalions,

03/01/2008 17:14:29
131

Did you get my Cornish, or was that on the Herald?

;-)

ps....why the name changes?
95

Methalions,

03/01/2008 17:15:00
Chairman Gordon

He possibly went to Bannockburn High.
96

Andrew Allan,

03/01/2008 18:43:08
Grahamski.
Your people may of been from the north-east, but you didn't say what country you were talking about. Gaelic has been spoken in the north-east of Scotland, which took the place of a type of welsh language which the picts spoke. The reason most of us speak english is because our Scottish royalty wished to get close to the english so pressed forward with english.
The name we go by, being Scotland, is a kind of a very old joke, as it stands for the land of the pirates, from the name the romans gave to some of us.
97

morris,

edinburgh 03/01/2008 19:27:30
15


Scots Gaelic was as far as can be determined, the language of the ancient Celts of Europe, and unlike all other branches and derivatives of this ancient language,(and there are many) here it has survived unchanged for centuries ,and is as far as can be determined, pretty much as it was spoken by the earliest Celts in Central Europe. It was introduced by the "Scoti" who were traders from Ulster and settled in Argyle ,(extending the Kingdom of Dal Riata)and became the dominant language and culture, and the official language of ALBA ,and was at one time(much later) spoken as far south as Dun Eideann (Edinburgh),albeit for one generation only, when it quickly receeded North again.
This is part of our history whether you ever attended school or not!
I am by no measure knowledgeable on this,but even I know what you are saying is complete garbage.
Its one thing to be unaware of this,but to declare it is not so ,flies in the face of history.Just what one accomplishes by declaring one knows absolutely nothing about ones history I cannot fathom.Look it up if you want to know,but Im fairly confident I am not far wrong.
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morris,

Edinburgh 03/01/2008 19:44:33
99
Irrespective of whether your comment deserves to be taken seriously or not,the simple fact is SCOTLAND cannot leave the UK unless a majority wish it to be so, and that must be unequivocally declared.How many of anything frequent these forums ,will make no difference to the fact, that the democratically declared wishes of the majority will be upheld ,just as we do currently and remain in the Union at the moment therefore.
Your only "problem "would appear to be that the majority will decide, and you are a majority who may soon become a minority. I don't see this as a problem. I see this as democracy.
Your use of the "prats posing as nationalists" is quite insulting .You may not agree with us, but we have a right to express our opinions, and we fully intend to.
99

Pilrig,

Livingston 03/01/2008 19:55:23
31 - rules get yer facts right, Brits are Celts as are Scotti
100

Pilrig,

Livingston 03/01/2008 20:00:09
71 - a philistine
101

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03/01/2008 20:03:14
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Conan the Librarian™,

03/01/2008 20:04:30
AM2
You like your polls...
http://www.constitutionalcommission.org/index.php?option=com_poll&task=results&id=14

Of course its quite old.

And meaningless.
103

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03/01/2008 20:09:22
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03/01/2008 20:10:12
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105

Karin M,

03/01/2008 20:11:20
Re the gaelic argument. s'Math sinn. Anyone who has ever said smashin is speaking gaelic thats where it comes from. Most of the place names in scotland are gaelic. I am learning gaelic and no im not a teuchter. My faither worked in the yards as a burner.

And i didnt vote as a protest or as against the smoking ban i voted for one thing independence. However i like the rest of what im getting. And AM2 a whole year further on and your still cherry picking surveys. I Thank the big fella your not a scientist.

by the way happy new year everyone.
right away again cos i still hate the site.
106

Pilrig,

Livingston 03/01/2008 20:11:33
Chairman Gordon 94 - the ruling class and the their domineering culture in East Lothian may have been Anglian (not Saxon) BUT the vast majority of the inhabitants were of Celtic stock (P Celt or Brythonic). Likewise Prof Bryan Sykes has shown that no fewer of 64% indigneous English males are also of Celtic stock. The Angles, Saxons and Normans were just a small albeit aggressive bunch of troublemakers, who foisted their culture on the native Celts.
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03/01/2008 20:18:12
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Conan the Librarian™,

03/01/2008 20:22:59
142
Evening Wardog.
Go to Word,Ctrl Alt t.Cut and paste.
AM2
Most polls are taken from to shallow a database.
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03/01/2008 20:27:00
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03/01/2008 20:28:06
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03/01/2008 20:30:01
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 20:32:27
146 AM2

"they understand the stakes". What stakes?
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Conan the Librarian™,

03/01/2008 20:32:41
151
HeHe.
Argh...just noticed my spelling mistake.:o(
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 20:36:19
152 Indeed. AM2's polls at 150 seem to suggest that people are in favour of something undefined. I am in favour of the future, and things developing, and progress, generally. AM2 will now tranmutate these views into one of his poll numbers...
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Conan the Librarian™,

03/01/2008 20:36:57
154
The favourite "Wee Eck"

30-1 "Wee widelipped Wendy

100-1 "Some libdem t**t.

200-1 "Auntie Annabelle"
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 20:37:50
156 People expressing a preference for something undefinded?

Tell me AM2, do you forsee unforseeable difficulties with Devoltion Mk II?
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03/01/2008 20:39:12
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Conan the Librarian™,

03/01/2008 20:40:59
156
So, are you for Federalism now AM2?
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03/01/2008 20:41:18
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03/01/2008 20:42:38
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 20:42:46
161 AM2, so you are in fact saying that the stakes are high i.e that independence is likely, imminent or in some other way that you choose to parse a statement, a near event?
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 20:45:00
166 AM2

I am in favour of "greater Scotland-level decision making withing the UK" - who isn't. What a meaningless statement.

I'd suggest that the options are not exclusive, thus highlighting the meaningless nature of the polls you quoted.

I am all in favour of "greater Scotland level" whatever. Another step....
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Conan the Librarian™,

03/01/2008 20:46:30
166
So by that reasoning...Federalism?
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 20:49:14
168 AM2

indeed. You said the stakes were high. You said that a unionist grand confabulation is necessary to see off independence and such an agreement is nowhere in sight. Your logic is easy to follow - independence is likley and Unionist parties are in a panic to cobble together a position, not based on any principles that they hold, to outflank the SNP.
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03/01/2008 20:50:22
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 Ayrshire Scot™,

03/01/2008 20:50:48
170 But they are not exclusive. Ask me I favour greater Scotland level decision making - YES i do. ASk me if I favour independence - Yes I do.

I suggest your polls were weak in all manner of ways, no