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What a fiasco

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Published Date:
04 May 2007
THE Scottish Parliament elections descended into chaos today as an estimated one in ten votes were lost to spoiled ballot papers and counts were abandoned following technical problems.
The count in Edinburgh was called off early this morning, with only two of the city's six constituency seats declared, after the new electronic counting system failed. Counting resumed shortly after midday.

Changes to the design of the Holyrood ballot papers and the fact the national poll was run on the same day as local council elections - which were using the Single Transferable Vote system for the first time - were blamed for widespread confusion. Around 100,000 ballot papers - roughly eight times the figure for the last Holyrood elections - are thought to have been declared spoiled.

In some constituencies, the number of spoiled papers was greater than the winning majority, casting inevitable doubts over the validity of the result.

The Electoral Reform Society said around ten per cent of the votes cast yesterday could be invalid because the ballot papers were not filled in correctly.

The failure of the £4.3 million electronic counting system being used across the country for the first time meant several counts were called off early this morning. Huge delays in processing the papers meant counts across the country were postponed and restarted this afternoon.

West Lothian was among the areas affected, with the counting of votes for the Livingston and Linlithgow seats abandoned until this afternoon.


The problems meant only 81 out of 129 MSPs had been announced by midday. There was widespread anger among candidates and commentators about the fiasco.

The Scotland Office announced an investigation into the problems would be launched "as a matter of urgency".

The independent Electoral Commission will carry out a statutory review into the election, alongside an internal review ordered by DRS Data Services Ltd, the company behind the vote-counting technology.

The Scotland Office spokesman said: "It is important that they (the Electoral Commission) look as a matter of urgency into delays in postal ballots, the high number of spoiled ballot papers, and the performance of the electronic counting machines."

The problems besetting the election became apparent within an hour of counting beginning at 10pm last night. Large numbers of potentially spoiled ballot papers which the computer could not read starting piling up at the Edinburgh count at Ingliston.

Amid growing unease among city council and DRS staff, the rejected papers were put under a special magnifying screen to be analysed more closely.

Then DRS broke the news to Edinburgh returning officer Tom Aitchison that many had been dreading. The master central document software which was supposed to process and display the spreadsheet results had failed.

Without it there was no way of knowing the outcome of the voting in each constituency and on the regional list.

Candidates and party activists watched big screens in eager anticipation of seeing the first results, but they remained blank.

News of the computer failure was broken to Mr Aitchison by DRS officials at about 1.30am after he asked for a progress report.

"It soon became clear that time was getting on and we were approaching 2am it wasn't getting fixed and people were becoming anxious and getting angry.

"I told DRS, 'You need to tell me whether you can fix this in a reasonable time, or I will have to consider calling the count off'. It was like trying to run a major operation not quite blind, but without proper management control."

Mr Aitchison was able to announce the results for Edinburgh Central and Edinburgh Pentlands at about 6am, but ordered the counts for the other four city seats stop to resume at midday.

A DRS spokeswoman described the fault in Edinburgh as a "temporary interruption". It is understood that data from all the papers that could be scanned was successfully collected, but the problems arose in processing it.

"There was a known issue at a small number of count sites with the consolidation of data for some individual constituencies," the DRS spokeswoman said.

"We can confirm that all data is secure but consolidating it has taken longer than anticipated and it is required to resolve this issue to allow the returning officer to make the declarations.

"Counting and adjudicating is happening as normal at all constituencies and we are working at resolving this issue as matter of urgency.

"The system remains secure and robust and all the information put out has been legitimate."

Candidates and their aides attending the Edinburgh count at the Royal Highland Centre at Ingliston had become increasingly frustrated as the delays lengthened in the early hours of the morning.

Jim Sillars, former MP and husband of Independent candidate Margo MacDonald said: "If this is the doing of the electoral Commission they should all be sacked. I fought my first election as a professional agent in 1961 and I have never seen a shambles like this."

Former Scottish Tory leader David McLetchie said there had to be an investigation into what had gone wrong. He said: "I'm not a technical expert but it is clearly not a satisfactory situation. We need an investigation into why electronic counting has failed to deliver."

SNP candidate Kenny MacAskill said there was a huge sense of frustration, which was no doubt shared by staff operating the system as well as the party activists. He said: "Lessons have to be learnt. This is becoming a perennial problem at counts in Edinburgh. It is unedifying and we have got to do better."

And Liberal Democrat councillor Phil Wheeler said: "Unfortunately it's business as usual at the Edinburgh count. I have been coming to counts since 1970 and I have never known one which produced results on time. Despite the wonderful technology we didn't get them this time either."

Former council Leader Donald Anderson, Labour candidate in Edinburgh South, said: "There is no doubt that technically tonight has been a disaster. The computer system clearly has not worked and there needs to be a full inquiry into what has gone wrong."

Iain Whyte, Tory group leader on Edinburgh council, said the situation was "hugely disappointing" for candidates and their supporters and "frustrating and embarrassing" for the returning officer and his staff.

He said: "I'm not at all clear on what has gone wrong but it's clearly very serious. I think it has been a major mistake to have the parliamentary elections and the council elections on the same day when a new system for the council elections was being brought in."

Senior Lib Dem Fred Mackintosh was a member of a cross-party electoral consultative group set up after the fiasco of 1999 when the list count in Lothian had to be abandoned and thousands of votes were later found to have gone missing.

He said: "Council officers seem to have been professional and performed their task well. There doesn't seem to have been any difficulty putting the ballot papers into the scanners. The problem has been more bringing the results together in the computer."

And he questioned why there had been problems in Edinburgh when counts in other places seemed to be trouble-free.

He said: "Jack McConnell's result was declared almost instantly. Questions will have to be asked about how the count was conducted in Edinburgh."

Edinburgh West Lib Dem candidate Margaret Smith said: "This is totally appalling. It was bad enough when people didn't get their postal votes on time but to have so many spoilt ballot papers - it seems to be about 1000 per constituency across Scotland - is absolutely ludicrous."

The Electoral Commission promised "a full, independent review" of the elections in Scotland. In particular, it will be focusing on the reasons for the high number of rejected ballots, the electronic counting process and the arrangements for postal voting," said the commission.

"The commission is an independent body. It does not itself run elections, but reports on all major elections."

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 04 May 2007 12:06 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Holyrood Elections
 
1

Iain fae Elgin,

London 04/05/2007 11:02:21

Why not just count them by hand?. Despite what people think, computers aren't the answer to every problem.

2

AdamKC666,

Edinburgh South 04/05/2007 11:03:01

If someone found it hard to vote properly they must have a melon for a head. Seriously folks...read the instructions or ask for for help if having difficulty....oh sorry I forgot you have a melon for a head.

3

James2122,

04/05/2007 11:03:32

ha ha I don't care anyway!

4

The Facts,

04/05/2007 11:04:20

And we send observers to supervise elections in Third Word countries?

Maybe educating our own voters in a simple process may be more beneficial.

5

Mani,

Franchise for sale 04/05/2007 11:09:36

Democracy is overrated.

6

Bob The Beggar,

04/05/2007 11:22:41

I'm tellin ye

It's all just a ploy, so we don't get independence.

Seriously though it would be interesting to see a comparison of the constituencies most affected and the ones that were not.


Bob

7

Daft Old Git,

04/05/2007 11:30:29

Agree with 2. If folk are too stupid to fill in the paper they shouldn't be allowed to vote (or to even be a MSP for that matter)

8

James2122,

04/05/2007 11:31:10

So caviar all round as Sturgeon swims up the Clyde behind Salmon whoohoo!!

9

Road Raga,

04/05/2007 11:33:15

All the ballot papers were clearly marked DO NOT FOLD and yet some people still folded them. Still, can't be helped I suppose.

10

James2122,

04/05/2007 11:35:02

Seriously though... good for Nicola, politics is borin but she's a bit of alright whahey!!! whooohoooo!!

11

Bored,

04/05/2007 11:35:48

It is my understanding that the majority of spoilt papers were for the council elections. People put an X (or rather their signature) instead of a number. After all the instructions were written on their polling card which they had plenty of time to read before going to the polling station.

12

John Knox for First Meenister,

High St, Embra 04/05/2007 11:36:35

There atre two classes of stupid people
1) people too stupid to fill in their votes correctly
2) people who are too stupid to realise how easily some people (including the elderly) get confused.
They may have tested the technology to distraction, but a trial run with a sample of voters would have shown that it wasn't going to work for a sizeable number of people. You dinna do IT projects without including the users.

13

John Knox for First Meenister,

High St, Embra 04/05/2007 11:38:26

#11 that's not so - the spoiled papers declared so far are just for the parley. Last time you'd get maybees 100 spoiled, this time it was 10 times that.

14

Arnie,

Newington 04/05/2007 11:46:09

Can our politicians get anything right?

15

James2122,

04/05/2007 11:47:32

Absolutely correct no 12, They should have tested the full process including the users!
I can only assume they didn't otherwise the user errors would have occurred and been noticed.

This is completely fundamental.
That IT company should be sued and put out of business. Then the person(s) that hired them should be fired for not checking what they were doing!!

haha sack him, sack her, sack him and give me a big fat pay rise haha.

16

Rickee,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 11:47:42

My mother in law worked at the polls. They were given a two hour training session. She thought is was to help advise people on how to vote.
It was to show them how to set up the new polling booths and stands.

Brilliant meh

17

Skip McClendon,

On the line 04/05/2007 11:49:14

10. James2122 / 12:35pm 4 May 2007 Seriously though... good for Nicola, politics is borin but she's a bit of alright whahey!!! whooohoooo!!

James...may I suggest a trip to the opticians? Wee nippy Nicola may be many things - a dedicated politician and a good parliamentary performer for example - but a bit of top Parliamentary totty she is not!

18

True Jambo,

04/05/2007 11:50:00

#14 no and you'll find in life that NOTHING EVER WORKS.

My computer is constantly crashing at work and home, cable tv etc.... Lots of things that should work never do. The more advanced the tech the more of a disaster it is when it goes wrong.

19

Road Raga,

04/05/2007 11:52:39

rubbish #16. the training included how to vote.
What is so difficult about marking a 'X' and then 1 for your first choice, 2 for your 2nd etc ?
Anyone not sure where told to ask for any help they needed. To blame the Council for this is wrong, and remember it was a private company doing the count !

20

Zoobee,

edinburgh 04/05/2007 11:55:54

# 2&7 I agree. If you too dumb to understand the difference between a cross and a number you really shouldn't be allowed to make decisions on who should be running this country.

Is this why Tommy S lost out as none of the people who vote for him could understand what was going on?
if anything they should make it more complicated, labour will probably object as none of their councillors will ever be elected again.

21

,

04/05/2007 11:57:52
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

Voice of reason,

04/05/2007 11:59:40

Well well , the abuse I took for saying the scots were numpties and could not organise anything !!
Where are the abusers now ?
Still , they cam blame London - HA HA HA !!

23

Voice of reason,

04/05/2007 12:03:41

IndepenDUNCE fur Schkoatlin noo 1!

24

Jen,

Fife 04/05/2007 12:03:45

#19 "What is so difficult about marking a 'X' and then 1 for your first choice, 2 for your 2nd etc ?"
I agree, people should have more faith in the voters of Scotland. Does no one else think that there could be more to this whole fiasco?

25

Tam,

04/05/2007 12:08:26

LET'S DO IT AGAIN PLEASE.

26

picti,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 12:09:04

To all those who found the ballot papers confusing - you are pullin ma puddin! . . . As an experiment in reasonable intelligence I just jave the simple voting instructions to my nine year old daughter - as printed on the ballot papers. Interesting the only bit she didn't understand was the difference between Constituancy and Regional. ROFL - and shame on all those who got confused - I'm of the view that if you couldn't work it out you could give my daughter the vote insted LOL.

27

cynicalm,

04/05/2007 12:10:58

Any numpty who was unable to understand the clear instructions on the ballot papers doesn't deserve to have a vote!
What is much more worrying is that nearly 50% of the electorate couldn't be bothered to cast a vote and presumably have not interest in what the parliament or councils do in the next 4 years.

28

Ticcychick,

Morningside 04/05/2007 12:11:29

Glad i didnt bother

29

Paul Voltaire,

04/05/2007 12:18:26

The game's a bogey!!
Let's do it again and get Rosie Kane back.

30

James2122,

04/05/2007 12:18:57

No 17 - I beg to differ.

You can keep your J-Los and your Beyonces, your angelina jolies and your eva longorias.

Nicky Stugeon is a wee stoater!! And she's clever too.

31

x marks the spot,

edinburgh 04/05/2007 12:22:18

I am afraid to admit that I was one such 'x' voter.. having read the instructions on the leaflet at home I was prepared to number my preference on the council paper but I must say that this is the first time I have ever stood in a polling booth faced by such an array of choice. When it came to the white vote habit took over. . simple as that.
To have a numbering system on one paper and crosses on another seems bizarre!

32

Paul Voltaire,

04/05/2007 12:25:18

#31
It's not rocket science.

33

Ayeright!!!,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 12:29:57

What a farce, did we really expect anything different. When i was in the polling place last night several people in there were asking for help or getting flustered about folding or not folding the ballot paper. While i agree that it wasn't complicated it was more complicated than it needed to be. To claim all those who were confused were in the wrong or should be denied a vote, interesting..... and you claim they are stupid.....

34

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

Newington 04/05/2007 12:40:17

News Just In: due to mistakes made on ballot papers, Pat Buchanan is now First Minister.

35

Darren, Edinburgh,

04/05/2007 12:42:14

What an embarrassment for Scotland - the phrase unable to organise a sandcastle competition on beach springs to mind! Then again, it's not that difficult, voters must accept some of the blame - it was not difficult. With the changes to the system though, it may have been prevalent to hold the Council elections at another time.

36

Darren, Edinburgh,

04/05/2007 12:45:49

.....and further, 50% chose not to vote. Those 50% have no right to complain about any decision made locally or by the Scottish Parliament in the next 4 years.

37

Proximo,

04/05/2007 12:47:11

Surely this puts to rest the question of whether we could leave the Union and run our own country?

Unable to design a workable ballot paper, machines unable to count results, 100 000 people too stupid to vote correctly!

Thank god for London eh, phew!

38

florence f,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 12:48:07

Oh, for heaven's sake. It wasn't hard, as long as you read the instructions, and at least it made you think about what you were doing instead of just scribbling the x in the usual place. And to all those who are so sorry for 'the elderly' - it can't be said too often that BEING OLD DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE A PERSON STUPID!! If you've been dumb all your life, you aren't going to suddenly add 30 IQ points at the age of 65, sure enough. But equally you don't suddenly lose all your intellectual abilities at that age either. It's not like it's the first time we've been asked to vote on a paper that requires something different from one x. Or perhaps this is all the people who haven't bothered to vote the last few times finally stirring themselves and finding things have changed slightly?

39

TonyBLiar,

behind Jack McConnell 04/05/2007 12:51:05

Fiasco send for Lord Fraser

13.49 Bookies make SNP 1/2 FAV to win most seats!

40

Young Gordon,

The Shore 04/05/2007 12:53:40

Who did I vote for?
a) Lunatic Labour
b) Toff Tory
c) Sleazy Sheridan
d) Greedy Green
e) Lazy Liberal
f) No one - can't trust any of them not to line their own pockets whilst talking bollocks.

Who should I have voted for?
a) The Big plus
b) Carol Vorderman
c) Skillstrain
d) My maths teacher
e) Open University
f) Telephoning Pizza Hut - You know they guarantee a delivery, every time!

41

pofi,

Edinburgh Pentlands 04/05/2007 12:56:23

Rickee, 16- your mother in law is pulling your leg! I attended the same training session as a Presiding Officer and at no point were we given instructions on setting up booths, that is a janitorial duty! The sessions covered every aspect of the electoral process, dealing with the paperwork and advising voters fully on the procedures involved. I and my two polling clerks devoted ourselves throughout the day to ensuring every voter was given full instructions- there were numerous posters on display and the polling cards also had instructions. Having two elections with different voting procedures on the same day was confusing but the electoral staff and voters did do their best under the circumstances. Let's not take democracy for granted, more people should exercise their right to vote.

42

Responsable Parent,

edinburgh 04/05/2007 12:59:38

Maybe in future everyone should be issued with a unique id code on their polling card, then simply log on to an election website to cast vote . i dont know a huge amount about computers so maybe not feasible but seems a logical idea to me. those who dont have access to a computer could vote by post giving them more time in their own home to fill the ballot papers in which may cause less mistakes.

43

Steve98,

The buck stops here 04/05/2007 13:02:55
44

Raymie,

Saratoga NY 04/05/2007 13:09:18

The world is looking ,I hope not.

What does this tell us about ability. You just don't have the people to pull it off .You need truly capable people to make things go smoothly. I can see the computer geeks talking now, "well that was your department, "no ma job"

Scotland needs to undertsand what true leadership is, what it intails and who has it. They have to pursue those people to become leaders.From the other side of the Atlantic it looks like everyone wants to to play leader not actually take ownership and be accountable as one.

Get out the sand box Scotland and grow up.

45

doublescotch,

USA 04/05/2007 13:11:42

Is this a case of hanging chads:)

46

Andy Pandy,

Sunny Glasgow 04/05/2007 13:14:57

Seriously now, if this was an election in a developing country, the cries of fraud and the like would reverberate around the globe. Sadly, us Scottish voters will probably stand back with arms folded and let whoever with the biggest mouth take over. Really what needs to happen is for someone to take responsibility for this fiasco. How difficult is it for an automated machine to count? ATM's do it with cash - this isn't rocket science. It's a disgrace (stands back with arms folded)

47

IC,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 13:23:20

Any truth to the rumour that the voting system was designed by the same MSPs who built the Scottish parliament building?

48

Jim Lahey,

04/05/2007 13:40:39

A couple people called me a "mince-talker" in the ciliv-service walkout article. Public-sector performance in this country is on par with the third world. This just proves my point.

49

Andrew Wilson,

Not too stupid 04/05/2007 13:44:48

The problems on the ballot papers were not with the council elections but the parliamentary elections.

It appears that most spoiled ballot papers in the pariamentary elections were because people who voted for a minority party on the lists, didn't want to vote for anyone in the constituency list as there were very few minority parties standing as constituency MSPs (due to the expense).

Anyone that did that, had both votes discounted despite the fact that at the last election both papers were separate and you could only use one if you wished.

50

Thomas the Tank,

EmbraToon 04/05/2007 13:45:06

STOP PRESS - Former council Leader Donald Anderson, Labour candidate in Edinburgh South FAILED to unseat that nice man, Mike Pringle, by a majority of 1,929. Another failure for Donald to add to his record of spectacular failures. So the system cann'ae be THAT bad!!

51

K c,

04/05/2007 13:57:10

That's our election now on a par with a third world country....or USA.

It wasn't that difficult to understand. If people couldn't understand how to vote, why should they have any say in how a country is run?

52

Dox,

Rio Grande Valley, Texas 04/05/2007 14:02:35

I feel for you. The US was given the same runaround when we tried to oust Bush. It sounds like Florida without the hanging chads. :(

53

tomias,

south side 04/05/2007 14:08:22

reminds me of that old old adage- vote early and vote often!
very odd that where that originates was in N I and who was in Edinburgh yesterday?
Why the two adversaries them selves.
The cynics,( modern version not the ancient Greek) might go so far as to suggest that they heard the rustling of brown envelopes

54

diver476,

Dunfermline 04/05/2007 14:10:43

I only voted for ONE person on the ridiculous multi choice paper! What's the point of picking second, third, and forth?? I would never vote for them anyway! I only hope my ballot was not marked as a spoiled paper.

55

bobwmac,

Stirlingshire 04/05/2007 14:11:01

Embarrassed.

56

JIM IN USA,

florida 04/05/2007 14:11:55

Makes me feel better florida is not alone. but please dont elect a mental case to run the country like we did,its no fun believe me.

57

SweetMike,

On the eighth day God made Texas 04/05/2007 14:21:02

This may shut ther faces for a while about hanging chads in Florida, but I doubt it.

58

Gregb,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 14:22:48

Recount?

30 needs a visit to specsavers...I'd vote 4 Rosie though.

59

SweetMike,

On the eighth day God made Texas 04/05/2007 14:23:49

Jim, that mental case made his first million by the time he was 30. He graduated an Ivy League University and was an officer in the National Guard. He has also been twice elected to the highest office on the planet. I may add he doesn't come into foreign forums to bad mouth his country.

60

elizabeth veldon,

Glasgow 04/05/2007 14:25:34

spoiled papers at 5% of votes ()up around 1000%), postal votes never deliverd, the return envelopes for postal votes too small and therefore the need to fold the papers resulted in spoiled papers, people in some arias being told to fold their papers...

the election has to be re-run.

61

Optimistic Keith,

Lasswade 04/05/2007 14:26:25

maybe a lack of 'education education education' could be to blame for us stupid Scots making a mess of our election. That would be a Labour failure (one of many) and yet another argument to elect Mr Salmond...

London knows very well that the SNPs lower corp. tax would drag a lot of investment away from the south and thats why they have brought in the same election spoiling machines that kept Bush in power in the states. I for one thought Tony sounded a bit complacent the other day given how bad the polls were looking for labour.

Conspiracy theories aside, why would anyone vote Labour?? Who are these people that are making this a close contest?

62

Optimistic Keith,

Lasswade 04/05/2007 14:29:31

SWEETMIKE - as a representative of Scotland he is VERY welcome to bad mouth Bush in our forum.

63

SweetMike,

On the eighth day God made Texas 04/05/2007 14:29:34

What a nation of numpties. Scotland the Numpty Nation. There is even one guy blaming the English already LMAO.

64

Optimistic Keith,

Lasswade 04/05/2007 14:32:19

Numpty?? Me?! You just advocated George Bush in public! Get back to your goats.

65

SweetMike,

On the eighth day God made Texas 04/05/2007 14:33:48

Optimistic Keith, mea culpa. I was under the impression Jim in Florida was in a place named America. I bet you are one of those that voted with an X.

66

SweetMike,

On the eighth day God made Texas 04/05/2007 14:34:49

a Texas goat would make more sense than your posts

67

Road Raga,

04/05/2007 14:36:45

This must be a British or Scottish thing that the press loooove to exagerate and gloat when things go wrong.
There were some teething problems with SOME of the machines, resulting in a delayed count, hardly the end of the world. The results will be known at some point today, so who cares ?
I personally find it a big embarrasment that some Scots are apparently so stupid that they can't even vote properly and follow SIMPLE instructions like 'Do not fold'. Are we Scots really so thick ?

68

SweetMike,

On the eighth day God made Texas 04/05/2007 14:38:56

How can you people run a country if you can’t do something this simple? Y'aal best continue letting the English rip off your natural resources and taking you through life by the hand. The whole world is laughing at y'aal. LMAO

69

Optimistic Keith,

Lasswade 04/05/2007 14:43:40

...more sense to you maybe, I suspect you get on rather well together..

I bet your goats voted in the last presidential election, that could explain the result. Bush is either stupid or evil.

You do know your in the minority dont you?

70

mooseloose,

edinburgh 04/05/2007 14:56:14

Totally agree with Darren 36.
The fact that 50% could not be a**** to vote is a disgrace. They will be the ones whinging tho when council tax goes up again!!!!
My five year old son could have sussed out the ballot papers easy enough. Scotland should be ashamed.

71

Joe Kerr,

04/05/2007 14:57:42

Looks like the Labour party having been taking tips from the American Republicans on how to rig an election with dodgy reading machines, missing postal votes, broken down ships/helicopters and probably a premature victory cry from the media before counting has been confirmed.
.............but what did we expect.

72

Optimistic Keith,

Lasswade 04/05/2007 15:02:21

I just heard that the ballot paper said 'you have 2 votes' with an arrow pointing down only one column, that could explain a few things...

73

Who's been drinking from my pint eh!,

04/05/2007 15:04:44

Looks like the Labour party having been taking tips from the American Republicans on how to rig an election with dodgy reading machines, missing postal votes, broken down ships/helicopters and probably a premature victory cry from the media before counting has been confirmed.
.............but what did we expect.

74

Cabguyken,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 15:07:30

An independent Scotland??? We couldn't run a whelk stall, so bad is the Scottish Public Sector.

75

Disgusted Mark,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 15:12:18

£4.3 million to implement the electronic voting system?? For such a price, I'd expect full testing to have been done, but such failures usually end up due to lack of testing, or outsourcing work to Eastern Europe, India and the likes. I've been working in IT for years and can see when a project has been done on the cheap. When I say cheap, I don't mean cheap as in what was paid for the project, more so as to the actual IT company directors taking the money as profit and being cheap as possible cutting corners and outsourcing to save as much money as possible, whilst not caring about quality. I've worked in 2 reasonable sized IT companies in Scotland before and both have used this approach! (not surprisingly one no longer exists!!)

76

loosing the will to live,

04/05/2007 15:17:54

I think this voting system is a good thing.

I mean, let's face it, we should all have to sit an IQ test before we get to vote. This voting method was just a kind of test, and not even a hard one, it was a foundation level test in Admin. Srap the wasted votes from the numpties who are no cleverer than morons (or just plain senile).

As for the automated counting system, well it just proves what a skilled workforce Scotland has. Yea, we could really go it alone. We sure do have the technology and brainpower...............................

77

Scot from across the North Sea,

04/05/2007 15:22:11

Rigged!

What a complete scandal. It's all an obvious sham...

Cue the comments like "We could'nt run a whelk stall" - all has gone to plan it seems, so far.

Really, Scottish people should not accept this.

78

James2122,

04/05/2007 15:27:49

No. 68 SweetMike

That wasn't a very nice input. I'd rather the world was laughing at us than hating us the way so many hate the USA.

Anyway You've not got the wee stoater Nicky Sturgeon, we have.

Mind you, you got condi she's nice lookin.

79

James2122,

04/05/2007 15:32:53

anyone seen my glasses?

80

Jock MacSprog,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 15:33:21

P*ss up and Brewery comes to mind. And this is a region that wants to become a nation ? You must be joking. There are apparently at least 100,000 people in Scotland too stupid to tick a box correctly. Actually with that level of intellect, the SNP probably has a very good chance !

81

jennyman,

04/05/2007 15:37:39

What a mess to untangle - a red face for all.

82

jennyman,

04/05/2007 15:41:22

Why is everybody blaming the SNP for the muddle - try blaming labour - they organised it! and don't blame the auld yins - the young yins canny read or never bother to read anything before signing!

83

Andrew Wilson,

Not too stupid 04/05/2007 15:52:56

[quote]... Scrap the wasted votes from the numpties who are no cleverer than morons (or just plain senile). ...[/quote]

Some people intentionally didn't vote on the second part of the parliamentary ballot paper as they didn't see anybody to vote for.

Both of their votes were dismissed as spoiled despite the fact that could do the same last time and only hand back the one they voted in.

They were not numpties.

The problem is not with the new local government voting system it is the fact that the two parliamentary votes were linked and you had to vote in both or not at all.

84

jayceebee,

04/05/2007 15:56:06

I truly expected this. The election is now forever tainted ... the latest example of democracy failing itself.

85

woodentop,

Jase's place 04/05/2007 16:15:07

I hesitate to become involved in this debate, since I had no-one to vote for and consequently didn't bother... but isn't the level of confusion required to make a mess of filling in a simple ballot paper enough to invalidate one's opinion in the first place?

Perhaps this is the dawn of the old pass-an-IQ-test-before-you-vote concept?

Just a fleeting, and perhaps incoherent, thought...

86

Tom More,

Canada 04/05/2007 16:16:13

Dox from Texas: The Florida Hanging Chads incident wasn't really about 'ousting Bush.' Bush wasn't president. He was competing with Gore in 2000 for the presidency. And Americans reelected Bush four years later without electoral problems. It was the will of the American people. Don't blame it all on those poor hanging chads!

87

Goskun,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 16:22:46

I agree with most of your comments (too many to quote ). This just goes to show The, "Sunday Post" , "It's oor oil", "Culloden" "we've goat the best Education system" "Tartan shortbread", mentality
that is rife in Scotland. Unfortunatley we are unable to fill out a voting form correctly, or have a system in place to cope with it. Even tho' I'm Scottish I am no longer proud of the fact. We couldnae run a bath.
How much do people get paid to run such a shambles ?

88

woodentop,

Jason's shed - it's huge! 04/05/2007 16:25:43

#85 Tom - I tend to agree. That was just the sour grapes and whingeing you expect from a disappointed and frustrated left-wing party.

And just as well Bush won: can you imagine Gore's response to 9/11 (fructifying during Mr Clinton's presidency it should be remembered)? An immediate clamp down on CO2 emissions given all that uncontrolled burning in New York?

Still - the 'best little country in the world' has now given the world a chance to laugh at how rubbish it is! Hilarious.

89

Boyce,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 17:03:59

Just found out that Neil Kinnock is a director of DRS the company responsible for the voting system in Scotland. Still believe in coincidences?

90

Andrew Allan,

04/05/2007 17:11:14

There is a good chance the election was rigged, but it was done not to win the election, but to stop a referendum, and it will.

91

Jim A,

04/05/2007 17:13:31

#68 SweetMike, before you criticise others take a look back at your last two elections, really well run wern't they? All the crap that went on in Ohio and Florida. Y'ALL can kiss my ass

92

Conan,

HERE 04/05/2007 17:16:00

NEVER AGAIN IN THESE PAGES DO I EVER WANT TO SEE ANY MORE SNEERING, SANCTAMONIOUS COMMENTARY ABOUT THE US ELECTORAL SYSTEM OR PROCESS.

SCOTLAND's ELECTIONS SYSTEM APPEARS TO BE IN NO POSITION TO LECURE ANYONE ABOUT ANYTHING TO DO WITH HOW ELECTIONS ARE MANAGED ANYWHERE. ON THE OTHER HAND, IT HAS SHOWN ITSELF TO BE WORLD CLASS IN TERMS OF HOW TO GET IT WRONG IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE ..... SO, EVIDENTLY THERE IS SOME DEGREE OF EXPERTISE AFTER ALL THESE CENTURIES OF ELECTIONS.

THIS WAS A TOTAL DISGRACE AND THOSE ACCOUNTABLE (IF ANY) NEED TO BE FIRED.

Anyway, well done SNP - let's have the referendum for an INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND 'ASAP' so we gan get our sleeves rolled-up and start sorting out our own mess, ourselves.

93

SwampFox,

Tampa Bay 04/05/2007 17:24:03

Careful #68. Many of your fellow countrymen are of Scottish desent, myself included, and regardless of party affiliation, don't like to see Scotland bashed, even if I don't agree with what might be going on.

I for one don't understand the attempts to end the Union. The world as we know it today is a better place because of the UK and its people, Scotts, Welsh, and English. I can name just one Scottsman without who's efforts and leadership, all of Europe would now be speaking German. Does Air Chief Marshal Hugh Caswell Tremenheere Dowding, 1st Baron Dowding GCB GCVO CMG sound familiar to anyone?

94

Andrew Allan,

04/05/2007 17:25:38

The are already commentators saying many Scots look like they had a case of the wobbly pencil, which is an euphemism for being cowardly at the last second, this is the message which is going to travel back with the journalists to their countries around the world. Scotland won’t have a chance in hell when it comes to negotiations for now on.

95

Andrew Allan,

04/05/2007 17:29:39

SwampFox., #92.
If you had signed an agreement which gave you certain things which then disappeared, then for the last fifty years all you have had was a section of the UK kicking your people in the head, how long would it take before you would say enough is enough.

96

izzie,

dundee 04/05/2007 17:31:02

well done shona and joe but what a disgrace
my Canadian relatives e mailed me in absolute
disbelief this is so embarrassing

97

Paul....,

watching from Shanghai but Leith is home 04/05/2007 17:31:06

so, woodentop... you're proud of an election process that has an inbuilt mechanism to "invalidate one's opinion"

think about it for a minute... what exactly is a democracy? This is serious.

it seems your thoughts are indeed incoherent and you don't need to look far to find a "level of confusion" on this board.

woodentop? how apt.

98

Andrew Allan,

04/05/2007 17:35:29

Paul..., #98.
Invalidating one's vote is bad enough, but it has made around 100,000 of out peole look stupid at the same time.

99

woodentop,

Edinburgh, 1781. 04/05/2007 17:42:20

#98 - Paul - I think you miss my point. I'm not proud at all. It's a frickin' national embarrassment. Read my post again but this time with a Leith level of irony.

But I like your comment on 'woodentop'! How novel!

100

Andrew Allan,

04/05/2007 17:45:43

Goskun., #86.
No a system was created to make the people of our country look stupid for the rest of the world to see.

101

Goskun,

Edinburgh 04/05/2007 18:13:45

#103....I think 101 has myth-ed the point !
Anyway, I think we all agree it is still (was ?) a shambles. Not meaning to upset anyone. Just embarrassed for ourselves..anyway, bored wi this.

102

brettgallacher,

04/05/2007 18:23:30

dont know what i sent in messages for no chance of getting them printed in the anti scottish een

103

SwampFox,

Tampa Bay 04/05/2007 18:28:33

#96 Allan, we have the same problems here. States with large populations, and therefore more congresscretins grab more from the federal money bag than they pay into it.

104

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 04/05/2007 18:59:28

This is an article on the Telegraph about Labour's handling of the election.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007...

Two quotes:

"When the Scottish Secretary, Douglas Alexander, announced the new system of two lists on one ballot paper for yesterday’s elections, he justified the change by saying it would “make things easier” for the public.

The fact that it did the complete opposite symbolises Labour’s administrative incompetence, and how out of touch those who make such decisions are from their consequences."

and

"Labour has merely enhanced its reputation for incompetence, and for a determination to interfere in the electoral system not to promote ease of voting, but to try and manipulate arrangements to get as many of its own natural supporters to vote as possible." (This last bit is referring to postal voting).

105

woodentop,

Edinburgh, 1783 04/05/2007 19:07:20

Wini - you made that post up without bothering with facts or anything, right? Some spoilt votes? Try again: 100,000 spoilt, it's a mockery - or depending on your point of view, an unfortunate public display of the stupidity of the voting public up here in the 'best small country in the world'.

I favour the latter interpretation - but what else can the ruling party do when they dumb down the populace to the point where they are unable to vote for them? It's a bit of a problem.

106

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 04/05/2007 19:13:24

Here's a link to Robert F. Kennedy Jr's article on electronic voting fraud in the U.S.A. that should prove precient: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11717105/rober...

107

,

04/05/2007 19:25:24
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108

,

04/05/2007 19:25:53
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109

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 04/05/2007 19:26:17

"I think it has been a major mistake to have the parliamentary elections and the council elections on the same day when a new system for the council elections was being brought in." Well, the mistake was the "new system" not the turnout-boosting election consolidation. There should be NO tampering with voting procedures without thorough human-factors analysis and focus-group input. Think Florida-2004 elections. I suspect that you are suffering from a Labour plot to deny and/or taint SNP win. I love you, SNP, and thanks!

110

agro,

Brazil 04/05/2007 19:34:03

E-Voting Machine - A Travesty for Silent Voters

It is unbeliveable that the Scottish people have used e-voting technology in election. I do not know if this technology is similar to the one used in Brazil. If it is, you are using a kind of travesty technology that is very much appropriate for fraud and corruption. This is a kind of technology for people that have no citizenship. Most of the Brazilian voters are the poor living under the poverty line and democracy for them is what the perverse political elite design for them. In short, e-voting technology in Brazil is a tool for corruption not for democracy. Last year, during the last election, corruption and voting buying have increased and vote turnout declined.

111

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 04/05/2007 19:34:35

68. SweetMike: "How can you people run a country if you can’t do something this simple? Y'aal best continue letting the English rip off your natural resources and taking you through life by the hand. The whole world is laughing at y'aal. LMAO". What evidence do you have that this was done by Scots? What about the election fraud in America in 2002 and 2004 thanks to the Bush Crime Family? Nae, we laugh at you.

PS: God damn Texas, its felonious fleecing of California energy consumers in 2002, and its contribution of villains to the White House and world imperialism.

112

Paula,

04/05/2007 19:40:44

Well all these "spoiled" ballots, Labour had to try and win didn't they? Why not make the process so stupid, even if it wasn't as difficult to grasp as made out it was a farce.

113

woodentop,

Counting House 04/05/2007 20:02:00

#119 Wini - you are perfectly correct, we don't yet know the absolute scale of the debacle, but the Electoral Commission is 'investigating -
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6623287.stm).

This is a new one on me: we don't usually have to worry about chicanery in Scottish elections, given the system is so biased in favour of Labour it's not normally an issue.

Your final sentence would, therefore, tend to be undermined by the (admittedly sketchy) information we have.

Otherwise - top post!

114

john from the brig,

los angeles 04/05/2007 20:02:10

ladies and gentlemen , i do hope , that after all is said and done pertaining to the embarrassment of the election, scotland looks seriously at trying to go on its own. bearing in mind that scotland gets a substantial slice of the british pie,( check out per capita!) this would result in the social benefits being devastatingly cut, and where are the hard industries that would provide the revenue to fill this massive shortfall, please dont use the oil argument ! as the bulk of the north shore money goes offshore and is dwindling as we speak. dont let the clever poloticians lull you into the rhetoric of a bottomless pit of oil money, with which braveheart supporters will cheer and herald a new scottish age.
at the end of the day its numbers that count , and i am afraid that my beloved scotland will end up the laughing stock of its detractors.

115

Gilbie's Boy,

04/05/2007 20:05:01

Good grief - where to start!

116 agro - not e-voting; e-counting therefore the remainder of your post is irrelevant.

22 - Voice of reason - no I don't blame London, I blame the companies whose products screwed up.

Proximo - see 22 above.

48 Jim Lahey - see below

60 - elizabeth veldon - postal votes were opened, unfolded then "e-counted" so you are simply wrong.

73 - see below

I was at a count. The "public sector staff" were simply MAGNIFICENT. It was the "private sector" equipment/software that kept the staff waiting, spending hours last night waiting to do their jobs when the "private sector" software packed in. The Parliament count resatrted today and was finished once the private sector bugs were ironed out.

It was the private sector companies who balls-ed up the issue of the postal votes, leaving the public sector staff in the local councils to try to manually re-issue the papers to those who had not received them.

If you have criticisms to raise, then raise them with the private sector companies involved, or with the Labour/Lib Dem Scottish Executive who thought that two elections with completely different voting systems could be held on the same day.

LEAVE THE COUNCIL STAFF ALONE - THEY DID THEIR JOB WELL AGAINST ALL THE BEST EFFORTS OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR WHO SIMPLY COULD NOT MATCH THE APPLICATION AND DEDICATION OF THEIR PUBLIC SECTOR COUNTERPARTS!

Off for a large malt!

GB

116

woodentop,

Malt Shovel 04/05/2007 20:30:13

#123 Wini - glad to be of assistance, however limited.

117

Helena,

Michigan 04/05/2007 20:31:03

Shades of Gore- Bush ballot shambles and look who we ended up with...... thought y'all could organize a menage ( sp?) better than this!

118

woodentop,

Malt Shovel 04/05/2007 20:34:33

#125 - Helena, you didn't end up with Al! Be thankful!

119

Gilbie's Boy,

04/05/2007 20:37:49

Just noticed on teletext that the SNP also have more councillors across Scotland than Labour - 363 to 348. Bet the Lib dems are SOOOOOOO glad they introduced PR to local government!

GB

120

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 04/05/2007 20:37:56

87. woodentop: Blockhead? Don't deceive the Scots. The "left-wing party" was and is the majority party. Gore won Florida except by technicality; that's a fact. Bush brought us 9/11 through incompetence at best and has ruined our country. 9% Hartless Dick Cheney deserves accomplice status. The U.S.A. has been seriously harmed by the jihadist recruiting opportunities, massive debt, international shame, and massive outsourcing. Sound familiar, Scots?


"#85 Tom - I tend to agree. That was just the sour grapes and whingeing you expect from a disappointed and frustrated left-wing party. And just as well Bush won: can you imagine Gore's response to 9/11 (fructifying during Mr Clinton's presidency it should be remembered)? An immediate clamp down on CO2 emissions given all that uncontrolled burning in New York?"

121

Helena,

Michigan 04/05/2007 20:38:52

You are a woodentop.. no offence....

122

C41,

Los Angeles 04/05/2007 20:44:14

From this perspective, the technical aspects of your election are to blame, not the general public's IQ. Ballots can be just as confusing over here. I get to vote in a Boy Scout den that is straight out of the 1950s with a paper ballot, in this, the state of Silicon Valley. Go figure.

The SNP's take of an additional chunk of parliamentary seats sure makes things interesting, though. Gordon Brown will have his hands full - dare I predict a coalition government?

123

C41,

Los Angeles 04/05/2007 20:49:01

...and I'm curious about something: I've read that only a fourth of Scotland cares about Scottish independence. Is that true? I'm not lobbying for either side of the issue.

124

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 04/05/2007 20:49:07

120. woodentop, this reminds me of my Gàidhlig instructor's comment last night that the Scots are treated by the English like the Mexicans are treated by the Americans. How dare you insinuate that Scots are stupid and cannot vote as competently as anyone else"?

125

C41,

Los Angeles 04/05/2007 20:55:22

I don't think most people will perceive Scotland as a Nation of the Retarded. That perception is exclusive only to the U.S., and we like the title way too much to give up the Idiot's Crown to Scotland. Just look at who was elected to the Presidency - <i>twice<i>.

126

John Knox for First Meenister,

High St, Embra 04/05/2007 20:56:02

131 - aye, tis troo! and a fourth don't care at all and a fourth care a wee bit and a fourth stay and home and the fifth fourth are aff tae the boozer or drinking at hame

127

C41,

Los Angeles 04/05/2007 21:00:12

John Knox - *LOL*. But cannae be troo 'bout the rest of the lot, staying and getting p*ssed at hame.

128

C41,

Los Angeles 04/05/2007 21:07:55

I'd better get my American *ss back to work. Love to all from across The Pond - and don't worry. It could be worse; it could be raining!

129

woodentop,

The Doric Bar 04/05/2007 21:18:34

#'s of you having simple fun with my 'woodentop' name - you mischievous scamps (especially you Helena)!

#132, Rabbie: 'How dare you insinuate that Scots are stupid and cannot vote as competently as anyone else"?'

Erm, cos I am one and I'm thankfully still allowed an opinion (just)?

Great poems by the way Mr Burns! How's the tuberculosis coming along?

130

Breezy,

Argyll 04/05/2007 21:23:01

As stated the voting papers were'nt rocket science, but what people do here is instinctively fold the paper after voting as they have done for many, many years. It is after all meant to be one of the last things left that is sacred and privately done, rightly so, without big brother watching. But no, lo and behold, with the machine right in front of the polling station staff's desk, we were told to put the papers into the box for them all to see face upward. On the way out we could distinctly hear the chattering staff telling the rest of their pals across the room, ' Another two for the SNP.' No way to run an election.

131

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 04/05/2007 21:36:42

#137: "Great poems by the way Mr Burns! How's the tuberculosis coming along?" That was an heart condition.........amazingly I didn't need Viagra.

132

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XL,

R'dam 04/05/2007 22:33:43

So the SNP won the elections on the basis of spoiled ballot papers and failing computers ...?

Doesn't that remind me of some other elections ...

I'd say its time to declare war on some sort of axis of evil, why not London?

134

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 04/05/2007 22:40:27

#141 (XL), my sense is that SNP won DESPITE the spoiled ballot papers and that the computer glitches will only delay the ballot counting. Even the English have the good sense that we in the U.S.A. don't, to have paper ballots.

135

"Suck"-=-McCrunchie,

Dont vote it just encourages them 04/05/2007 23:26:52

I feel I can comment on this quite impartially as I didn't want labour or SNP to win (or conservatives/bible thumpers/weirdos etc), so lets face it - personally I was unlikely to be happy with the result.

However, when the outcome is as close as it was, and after watching the senile gent that someone else posted about stating he voted Labour as he always voted Labour and his dad voted Labout....

I think its more the senile old types like this who unintentionally trashed their papers, so would guess had the system worked Labour would still be in the lead.

In saying this - I am glad McConnell has gone. His interview on TV after his result which eventually summarised to "the side with the most seats will win" although extremely messily put, was the truest and most fitting reply he had given in months. His entire campaign was against others and distancing himself from his own UK party.

However, i suspect we escaped McConnell's frying pan for Salmonds fire. But they were the only two options that were available (and hence my header).

Personally I would be amazed if there is not an SNP scandal by Christmas, but obviously that is just my opinion and we'll have to wait to see.

But the saddest point by far is democracy is the enfranchisement of the people, and by corrupting access to a shown 10% of that poplus (in addition to those who did manage to complete a form, but without reflecting their intentions, or whose postal papers never arrived, or the council declining to send out helpers to fill in papers for those unable to see well enough to read...) not only makes the country look incompetent, but makes the result a lottery, with two losers as the prize.

Calling them such may seem harsh, but in winning an election you should be the winner beyond doubt - not the person who came first out of a random selection of between 80and 90% of those who had attempted to vote, and then to oversee a country with an election proc

136

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 04/05/2007 23:57:02

#143, well put.

137

woodentop,

Scandic Crown - just a swift one though 04/05/2007 23:57:17

#143 - your sentiments match mine. Sadly it's not possible for both NL and SNP to lose in Scotland (yet) and the choice amongst the rest was frankly dire.

At least this result means NL get it in the kegs, and the SNP are on the spot now. Scandal perhaps, but their dubious popularity will soon be exposed for what it is - a protest vote.

Perhaps in the near future we'll actually be offered a choice rather than left, lefter, further left or loony left (splitters!).

138

shacks,

a 05/05/2007 01:08:14

it was an english plot. bring back willie wallace and thump the s*** out of them

139

weechico,

05/05/2007 02:11:58

Not a word about events in Scotland here in the U.S.A. Lots of boring news about Queen Elizabeth's visit here. This attitude of indifference towards Scotland is obviously going to continue as long as so many people back in Scotland remain in a state of apathy. Why should the world care if half of the people of Scotland don't care enough to vote.

140

LA,

Los Angeles 05/05/2007 06:19:58

148 - WEECHICO

You're wong on both counts of indifference. But then, for decades the Scots tried to tell people they did not control their own press and media.

141

LA,

Los Angeles 05/05/2007 06:26:47

143 - McCRunchie

Redo what?

You didn't want either party to win. A negative. You wanted McConnell out. A negative. The election was fiasco. A negative. You want it redone. A negative.

Could you be addicted to negativity by any chance?

There is an enquiry into the way some aspects were not competent. The whole world does NOT think Scotland incompetent. You thinking it does draws attention your analytical incomptence.

Harsh?

142

LA,

Los Angeles 05/05/2007 06:33:07

119 - WINNI

You are quite right.

I have no idea which mischievious newspaper calculated that "perhaps as many as 100,000 ballot papers were spoiled" for until that moment a few constituencies complained of useless votes, and only a few thousand.

The enquiry will show 100,000 to be erroneous, the last ditch attempt by the enemies of democracy in Scotland to impune the integrity of the voter.

LA

143

LA,

Los Angeles 05/05/2007 06:35:13

Bob the Balloon is still posting bilge.

144

THEalan,

Dumfries 05/05/2007 07:49:12

A combination of poorly tested technology and thick voters which will keep the Labour vote down, lets do it again!

145

LA,

Los Angeles 05/05/2007 08:58:49

LOL

146

pofi,

Edinburgh Pentlands 05/05/2007 09:21:59

138, Breezy, doh!!! That wasn't a "machine" in front of the staff, it was a ballot box. The boxes had to be near the Presiding Officer to ensure that the papers went into the correct boxes FACE DOWNWARDS.
I would send a formal letter of complaint to the Electoral Registatrion Officer in Argyll IF a. you were told to place them in face upwards and b. the polling staff were discussing your votes, which they shouldn't have seen anyway and you and they had followed the instructions correctly!

147

Boswall,

Morrison St 05/05/2007 09:31:46

Relatively speaking - this was a good result.

A couple of days ago I predictred that the separation loons would only get about 40% of the vote. In fact they didn't even get that - they got about 36%.

This was the absolute best scenario the SNP could take into the polls and they were miles off getting any sort of mandate for separation.

Wouldn't hold your breath on them getting their coalition either.

So here's another prediction - 4 years of ineffective minority government then they get kicked out in 2011.

148

,

05/05/2007 11:29:04
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05/05/2007 11:32:00
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Voldemort,

Edinburgh 05/05/2007 21:01:23

What's the betting that these 100,000 spoiled papers didn't have the corrupt Labour party at the top of the list !?

Heads should roll for this - alot of them!

151

Los Angeles,

Los Angeles 05/05/2007 22:47:46

156 - BOSWALL

I don't think you realise how clever the SNP have conducted their campaign, how radical they will be in governance, and if blocked by other parties will let the elecorate speak again BEFORE their term is up.


 

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