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Good news: You'll get NHS dentist for toothache agony. Bad news: You're 6,836th on waiting list

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Published Date: 17 March 2008
WHEN Caroline Dollemore-Hunt urgently needed a dentist to treat a painful problem with her teeth, she thought the NHS would provide one.
But after being told she is 6,836th on the waiting list merely to be registered with an NHS dentist, she has become resigned to her teeth crumbling and falling out before she can get help.

Unable to afford expensive private treatment, Mrs Dollemore-Hunt and her husband, John, who also needs dental attention, are left helpless like tens of thousands of patients living in rural areas of Scotland where NHS dentists are in short supply. In total, almost 35,000 people have been put on NHS Highland's waiting list after contacting them for help finding a dentist.

It is a situation mirrored in other rural areas of Scotland, including Grampian, where less than 30 per cent of adults are registered with an NHS dentist. In the Borders, 38 per cent of adults have an NHS dentist and in Orkney it falls to 34 per cent.

Dentists have blamed a growing burden, created by having to comply with health and safety legislation and general regulations, and a lack of allowances from the Scottish Government, meaning they are forced to take on more private patients to pay their bills. A shortage of dentists – especially those willing to work in rural areas – has also added to a growing crisis in dentistry hitting those in remote areas the hardest.

Mrs Dollemore-Hunt's position on the waiting list came to light after the couple – who have recently moved to Lybster, Caithness, to take on a croft – contacted their MSP Jamie Stone.

Mr Stone, Lib Dem MSP for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross, wrote to NHS Highland asking when a dentist would be available. In a letter back, the board's chairman, Garry Coutts, revealed that Mrs Dollemore-Hunt had been placed on the waiting list for an NHS place and was currently 6,836th in the list for the Caithness area. Mr Coutts explained that, last year, 1,400 patients were taken off the waiting list and offered places with salaried dentists – those who only work for the NHS.

But Mr Dollemore-Hunt said this meant they could wait more than five years before an NHS place was available for them. He said: "It could be even longer, as vulnerable patients such as children and those with learning disabilities are given priority."

Mrs Dollemore-Hunt, who needs treatment after a filling fell out of a tooth on which she had root canal treatment several years ago, described the situation as "an absolute disgrace".

"I am so cross I can hardly speak about it," the 47-year-old said. "I have heard so many stories from so many people about problems getting an NHS dentist. But I always thought if I really needed one, then I would be able to get one."

Mr Dollemore-Hunt, who also needs treatment for two other aching fillings, said: "I believe that if we wait as long as the health board are suggesting it will take to access NHS dentistry, then our teeth will be lost forever.

"Private treatment is not an option because we just can't afford it. All the money we have got has to go into running the croft and feeding the animals. We are now just living with the pain; we take aspirin and other painkillers from the chemist. That is all we can do."

NHS Highland has a list of more than 8,600 people wanting to be registered with an NHS dentist in the Caithness and Sutherland region – almost a quarter of the 39,000-strong population. But waiting lists are even longer in other parts of the Highlands. In the south-east area, 14,827 people are awaiting NHS registration – from a total population of 89,000. In the mid-Highland area, providing services to 93,400 people, the NHS dental waiting list is 11,827.

NHS Grampian also said it had a waiting list of 28,776 people waiting to be registered with a salaried dentist. Many of these, the board said, may already have NHS or private provision but wanted to access the salaried service.

An spokeswoman for NHS Highland said it recognised that access to NHS dentistry was an issue and was creating new facilities to try to meet demand.

Dr Andrew Lamb, British Dental Association director for Scotland, said he knew of patients travelling from Inverness to Glasgow to access NHS dental care. He said the problem came down to a shortage of dentists, the costs of running a practice now and the difficulties attracting dentists to work in rural areas.

Dr Nigel Carter, chief executive of the British Dental Health Foundation, said as well as having implications for people's dental health, not seeing a dentist could impact on other areas of people's wellbeing: "There is increasing evidence now of the link between dental health and systemic health. There are implications for things like heart disease, stroke, low birth-weights and diabetes."

Shona Robison, public health minister, said: "A number of financial recruitment and retention measures are in place to attract dentists to work in the NHS and remain in Scotland."

THE TOOTH HURTS

Percentage of adults registered with NHS dentist

Greater Glasgow & Clyde 58%
Ayrshire & Arran5 6%
Lanarkshire 55%
Tayside 54%
Forth Valley 52%
Lothian 51%
Western Isles 44%
Shetland 43%
Dumfries & Galloway 41%
Fife4 0%
Borders 38%
Orkney 34%
Highland 29%
Grampian 29%
Scotland 49%

THE ALTERNATIVE

A selection of prices private dentists charge for treatment:

Check up £20 to £40
Hygienist appointment £20 to £45
Filling £20 to £60
Root canal £100 to £300
Crown £200 to £400

BLAME THE GOVERNMENT, NOT THE HARD-WORKING DENTISTS

DENTISTS are running businesses and as such have to pay for their premises, their staff and other costs.

We are paid fees for treating NHS patients and can also qualify for extra allowances from the Scottish Government by meeting certain criteria.

The problem has been how the Scottish Government defines NHS commitment.

To qualify for these extra payments to maintain our practices, worth tens of thousands of pounds, high-street dentists have to have at least 500 NHS registered patients.

Of these, 100 must be fee-paying NHS patients – those not exempt from charges altogether.

Dentists must also gross at least £50,000 a year from their NHS patients.

Currently, of the 38 high-street dental practices in the Highlands, 27, including myself, are deemed not to be committed to the NHS, meaning we do not qualify for this extra money.

Across Scotland, 273 practices are said not to be NHS-committed, while there are 600 that are committed.

A lot of dentists are very angry when they are sent the letter telling them they are not committed. Many practices are treating thousands of NHS patients but may not meet all or any of the criteria to receive the allowances.

As dentists, we have to fund our practices from our own incomes. If the Scottish Government won't give us the funding, we have to get it from patients.

It is unfortunate, but that is business.

Dentists also face extra costs from new guidelines for decontamination procedures, which are due to come into force in 2009. This means we will have capital costs of £25,000 to £40,000 to bring equipment up to the new required standards, plus ongoing maintenance costs.

The NHS is spending huge sums of money increasing the number of salaried practices, with dentists employed directly by health boards.

They are only seeing around 20 per cent of the NHS patients. I believe the money spent on creating salaried dental surgeries could have been better spent on high-street dentistry.

• Robert Donald is a dentist in Nairn and secretary of Highland local dental committee.


The full article contains 1318 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 17 March 2008 12:04 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: NHS Dentistry
 
1

,

17/03/2008 00:14:57
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,

17/03/2008 00:20:34
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 00:26:00
'Aye' ain't it just fun being a Nation of,

'Bug's Bunnies'!!

"Suffering suckatash"..need a Dentist!

"Whats up Doc"...need a Dentist!
4

,

17/03/2008 00:27:42
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,

17/03/2008 00:31:48
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,

17/03/2008 00:36:55
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,

17/03/2008 00:37:44
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8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 00:40:56
Scott Webb @#6,

She looks like the person in the picture above, but the glasses are out of place!

Dinny see any carrots though! :-)
9

Matt there,

somewhere 17/03/2008 01:26:32
Gosh. So the plans of the Labour government both for Scotland and England/Wales worked REALLY well, didn't they?

Curiously enough the private charges shown are what, broadly, you can expect to pay for NHS treatment!

I paid £41 for a filling and will have to pay £197 for a crown to be fitted.
10

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 17/03/2008 05:18:05


Hey Dudes
#3
IS NOT the Galactic Cannibal of Murrieta, CA

And Dudes, the costs below are very reasonable compared with dental service costs, in the US.

So why all the squawking. If U lose Ur teeth u will revert to soft foods or baby foods.

Happy St. Patrick's Day

GC
11

Scottabroad,

Ardross 17/03/2008 05:50:53
If all the elderly patients who required dental treatment were encouraged to travel to the Glasgow area, where there is no problem accessing NHS dentists, using their free bus travel, then this would free up the stretched resources in other parts of the country. OK not much of a day trip to have your gob worked on, but surely it would help.

BTW - do you notice every time the Scotsman uses the word "private" it precedes it with the word "expensive".

Go to the States or Canada and discover what expensive dentistry really is.
12

fife runner,

17/03/2008 06:45:08
this all came about at the inception of the NHS. Doctors were incoporated but dentists were not and have always been private but did NHS work for payment.
13

Old Siggy,

Dunbar 17/03/2008 08:19:35
A selection of prices private dentists charge for treatment:

Check up £20 to £40
Hygienist appointment £20 to £45
Filling £20 to £60
Root canal £100 to £300
Crown £200 to £400

Are you serious?? My wife needed a crown fitted and her private dentist wanted £900!!
14

Tracy C,

Aberdeen 17/03/2008 08:25:59
The important bit there is "selection", its obvious yoru wife's dentist wasn't in there.

I do have sympathy with the lady but perhaps if she'd been registered with a dentist all her life then the problems would have been spotted earlier and action taken while they were less expensive to treat.

Even if the lady does find a dentist she still has to pay although at a level lower than a private patient.
15

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 08:33:59
'Aye' as above few posts, unless you are "Rockefeller"
you may aswell forget the 'Thong' and stick a carrot in your Gob!
16

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 08:36:36
OH BTW foget the 'babes' also!

Who would go out Mr 'Goofy',? :-))
17

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 08:39:47
Babeless, Thongless and Toothless!!
18

Annlass,

Toronto, ON 17/03/2008 08:57:09
This is a horror story I find incredible! Not to belittle this situation but it is well known that the Scots are neglectful of Dental Hygene and the by-product of bad teeth should guarantee a surplus of Dentists, not this sorry state. Posts here have alluded to Canada and the costs of Dental Procedures and it is true that nothing is cheap but nevertheless the average Canadian has six-month check ups and all Dentistry is private. The costs posted in this article are certainly inexpensive if one converts Sterling to Dollars but we know that alone is an inaccurate methology. Most Canadians purchase private insurance policies and most Trade Unions bargain these policies for their members at Contract negotiting time and I can honestly say that bad or unclean teeth is very rare among Canadians and would provide cause to remark.Recently my husband had an implant for a tooth broken while playing hockey with the guys and this proved to be expensive but he received immediate same day care and was given a temporary tooth while waiting for the implant to fully set. I have never heard of anyone who had to wait longer than a day in an emergency. I cannot understand why the Scots accept this medevil system of Dentistry.
19

Proud2Be,

Perth 17/03/2008 08:59:13
I am experiencing the same problem as the lady featured in this article. Having been without a dentist for some years now my teeth are in a dreadful state!!

We have an emergency dentistry service who will treat you if you are in pain! After 6+ years of being without preventative care when I last had to make use of the emergency dentist service they told me I would be as well having all my teeth taken out!

The dentist informed me that brushing my teeth was now have a detrimental effect on my teeth and causing them to crumble further!!

When I wrote to the Chair of the local NHS Board to complain I recieved a response 3 months later from their complaints team to advise me they could do nothing and I would just have to put my name on the exceptionally large waiting list for treatment!!

Alas I fear that by the time my turn comes for treatment I will have no teeth to treat!! At only 25 years old I am severly disappointed to find that the "Cradle to the Grave" theory has become a myth!!!
20

techpunk,

17/03/2008 09:22:12
a selection of private dental costs:

£16 a month for basic dental plan.

approx 90% of dental costs covered, twice a year.

no excuses!
21

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 17/03/2008 09:30:31
Effectively anyone whose dentist has switched to private practice is telling their patients "forget the NHS" as we have found in this area. Which means we are more or less forced to go private. What is really galling is all the platitudes issued by politicians of the Labour persuasion that they have ploughed even more (of our) money into the NHS, never been better etc. The truth of course is that those who cannot afford to pay fo private treatment just go without like the couple in this story and at some point will end up requiring even more work done medically or dentally. At least we should be compensated for tax paid for this service allegedly free (although it wasn't) at point of need. A huge con and well deserving of a vote placed anywhere but near Labour.
22

Miss H,

17/03/2008 09:43:58
15 That is the problem. We need to have more salsried dentists working only for the NHS but that's not going to happen overnight unfortunately.
23

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 17/03/2008 10:07:00
But Tony Bliar PROMISED us that everyone would be able to access an NHS dentist within 24 hours - I saw and heard him on TV 0 and that was 5 years ago. Maybe his chum Gordon has some lovely surprise for us all?
24

Clive Hamblin,

South Coast 17/03/2008 10:17:45
Makes you wonder why we paid NI doesn't it ?

It's not much better in Sussex.

When I was first issued with my NI No 45 years ago, I was assured that what I paid into the Fund for the rest of my working life would ensure that I never had to pay for any Medical/Dentistry treatment and that I'd have a 'Good Pension!'

Almost makes you laugh, doesn't it ?
25

Slasher McGurk,

My Private Dental clinics waiting room 17/03/2008 11:10:49
"I am so cross I can hardly speak about it,"

Maybe you should not speak, you may cause more damage to yer nashers.
26

JT,

17/03/2008 12:32:04
Poor old dentists, dont make me laugh! there is no such thing as a poor dentist, just as there is no such thing as a poor doctor or consultant. Im lucky I have relatively good teeth and a NHS dentist, however I didnt have one for 10 years as I couldnt get one.I think as tax payers who pay towards the cost of educating dental students they should sign a contract for NHS work only for the first 5 years of practice, otherwise they are not allowed to practice at all. This may seem draconian but why should we pay for dental students to learn how to be greedy.
27

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 12:40:19
A flagship of privatisation. Now can anybody please expain to me the benefits of privatisation to the average punter in the street? The advantages are obvious for the entreprenuer.
New Labour and the Tories will continue down this vein until the entire NHS is private and run on the same model as the US. Privatisation and its slimey cousin PFI are the biggest national cons we have had to suffer. And it will only get worse with continuous right wing Governments.
28

driller,

north 17/03/2008 13:02:37
Does JT think we should have poor dentists? They study for 5 years as undergraduates, follow this with 1 or 2 years of Vocational training. I think they deserve what they can earn. They are trained to be dentists by the State through our Universities, not through the NHS, and can work how they like in the same way as lawyers,teachers etc can. The real problem is the diversion of funds to a mediocre Salaried Service (20-30% of the efficiency of General Dental Practitioners)to suit political dogma rather than funding dentists with realistic fees for the service they provide nowadays.
29

ldopas,

17/03/2008 13:16:04
30 Foulkes Off the CyberNat,Edinburgh 17/03/2008 12:40:19
A flagship of privatisation. Now can anybody please expain to me the benefits of privatisation to the average punter in the street? The advantages are obvious for the entreprenuer.


Yes, easy.

The whole point of a private company is to make profit. A dirty word for socialists who dont live in the real world and who think cash just appears from thin air, to be poured into failing public services.

That profit enables expansion and reinvestment. Yes some also goes to the people who run the company and shareholders. But what is your problem? They are the ones who have risked their homes and families by putting money into the company. You've risked nothing. So exactly what is your problem with an entrepreneur making money from it?

The downside is that if they dont make profit and are not efficient customers will go elsewhere and the company will be liquidated. Meaning the riskers lose everthing, and having first hand experience I can tell you it is everything.

Public sector run services on the other hand, have no such incentives. It isnt even their money they are using. Therefore fat can creep into the organisation and huge inefficiencies. Oh I know some can be efficient, but its not the norm.

Without that constant kick up the butt, and government trowelling tax money in to cover up inefficiences, other things come into play. Whereas private industry has no choice but be as efficient as it can or die, public industry goes the other way. Encouraged by government with lots of rules, methods and operating pratices that are overcomplex and cumbersome.

Does that help? For further reading see the nationalised Rail Service records and any nationalised company circa 1960-1980.
30

Chenamoose,

Camp Hill 17/03/2008 14:27:48
Hope you are enjoying the benefits of the system you asked for.
Reaping the fruits of purring the government in charge.
At least the dentists haen't just tossed the older records as the doctors did to make themselves look good.
Dentistry for all equally. Nobody being served.
31

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 16:07:59
32

What a f*cking crock of sh*t that was like I said it is obvious what the benefits are to entrepreneurs and that post only supports what I said.
People now have to pay whatever the dentist decides to charge if they go private and ALL Dentists are charging ridiculous prices for the time involved for the treatment in some cases up to 500 pounds an hour.
Its f*cking extortion and you know it.
And the same goes for BT, British rail,Electicity Gas and water. Every single privatised industry has raped the population in the name of personal profit and continues to do so and PFI is worse PFI was actually designed to screw over the tax payer DELIBERATELY!!!
A clause in the fundamental set up of PFI actually screws the tax payer out of profits gained from any PFI project.
People in this country dont realise the extent of the corruption and theft perpetrated at a national level on their taxation by succesive governments.

A profit for who and at whos expense??? I am old enough to remember when I could go to any dentist and be treated on the NHS why on earth that had to change I have no idea I am now paying 20 times more in taxation so it cant be because of funding maybe you can explain it?????
32

Amparo de Glasgow,

17/03/2008 16:52:24
Dentistry represents all that is wrong with the British NHS ...!!
New LayBore have consistently refused to rein in the excesses of dentists.
33

ldopas,

17/03/2008 17:04:43
33 Buckpool Loon,Cheshire

Are you in business? I am, whether you believe me or not.

So tell me how it is a myth?

Your post is, as usual, a scattergun of points that dont in any way address the central issue.

Foulkes asked someone to define private v public. Thats what I did. Ok, his reply after shows me he is just a ranting angry Daily Mail reader, but I tried.

But what is your central thread? You post as if you have some financial nous, but your point is what?

Are you doubting that if I start a company, mortgage my house, get loans and then work 7 days a week no holidays and make something of it, I should give it all to Darling?

Or are you saying that its a myth that private companies need to make a profit? Because they do.

Where did I say the public sector need to make profit, as you seem to imply? Because I never said that.

Are you saying, as you again seem to be, that throwing billions into the NHS os some sort of ploy to undermine it. Jeezuz, that is one far fetched conspiracy. "lets demolish the NHS by funding it"?!?

Im all for the NHS. Luckily, touch wood, I rarely need it. Dentistry should still be in the NHS.

People like you seem to think its an either/or where things like the NHS and private business are concerned. I do not.

34

ldopas,

17/03/2008 17:07:59
35 Foulkes Off the CyberNat,Edinburgh 17/03/2008

You asked - "Now can anybody please expain to me the benefits of privatisation to the average punter in the street?"

I answered that.

So why the ridiculous rant?

Where did I say anything about the NHS. I like the NHS and dont like it when government take services out of it. I also like the private sector. Its not an either/or.

You need to take some proxac and lie down in a dark room to calm down or you'll be needing the NHS soon!
35

Miss H,

17/03/2008 18:34:54
29 Well that is the point I was making. We should have salaried NHS dentists to provide the basics. If people want cosmetic dentistry they can go private but we should all be able to access core dentistry services. That means dentists who do NHS work and nothing but NHS work. If others want to work in the private sector then fine, cheerio, but let's make sure taxpayers money goes to provide for what the taxpayers want not what the dentists want.
36

fritigern,

Inverness 17/03/2008 19:18:54
Last year in an area of South London with a large immigrant population I passed a dental practice with a huge sign ouside touting for NHS patients. It would be interesting to compare the percentages of the indigeneous white population and of the immigrant population refused access to NHD dentistry. (And I bet every single illegal benefit, sorry asylum, seeker has access to immediate NHS dentistry.) The Race Relations Board, or whatever it is now called, could look into this (joke!!).
37

Paul Voltiare,

17/03/2008 19:29:28
Another example of a hyphenated name clogging up the NHS.
38

Snowman,

Whistler,BC 17/03/2008 19:33:15
#21.Annlass. I totally agree that this is an incredible horroe story! Canadians reading this story and planning a visit to Scotland will no doubt include literature on Dental Hygene as a prerequisite, to circulate among their friends and hosts. Canadians would have their MP's and MLA's on the rolls of the unemployed if such a state of inefficiency was prevalent in their Country or Province. Dissgraceful!!
39

ACS,

St Andrews 17/03/2008 19:57:22
Paying for NHS dental treatment is not exactly a new issue is it? Dentists are no different from nursery or care home providers. Government insists they provide the services but then doesn't give them enough funding to cover their costs. Personally I have just paid £9.76 for a NHS 6-monthly check-up, scrape and polish. At the same consultation the dentist and I discussed potential non-NHS cosmetic dentistry that would stop me cracking mirrors with my smile. An excellent service and excellent value for money from a dedicated professional. Perversely, my partner who is the lower wage earner is a private patient with the same dentist.
40

JT,

17/03/2008 21:11:01
#31 Im not saying that they shouldnt get fair pay, however after being subsidised by tax payers they should give a little back then if they so wish go and practice privately then do so but only after being the NHS for a nominal period of time. However I stand by my statement you never see a poor dentist!
41

celtickeep,

Washington State, USA 17/03/2008 21:33:54
I pray to the Lord that the idiot Liberals don't get control of our government and try to force socialized medicine on us, as they are threatening. In theory, it sounds wonderful; but whenever the government gets involved in anything, it will invariably be a train wreck. People need to take responsibility for themselves and get their own insurance. Privatization is great! You are somewhat in charge of your own care. The govt' needs to ensure there are caps so that the insurance industry pays a fair amount to the doctors and keeps rates at an affordable rate. The insurance companies have become an out of control machine that needs to be knocked down a few notches, but otherwise, I refuse to sacrifice my health or that of my family to bureaocrats who don't know me or care a thing about me. You guys deserve no less.
42

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 21:34:48
38

No you didnt you posted the benefits to entreprenuers and business interests. Now try again what are the benefits to the average gadgie in the street and dont forget their kids and their dental treatments?
43

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 21:43:31
45

Total P*sh. You have no control over pricing or cost in fact nobody but the dentist does. They can charge whatever they like and they do.
And if youre in pain you are literally held to ransom.
Its just yet another national disgrace. People are actually finding it cheaper to go over to India for dental and medical treatment even though that is private as well. Parents are actually pulling their own kids teeth because they cant afford to take them to the dentist. That is the direct result of privatisation. Profit first profit second and profit last. TWO TIER HEALTH!! the very principle the NHS was formed to prevent.
44

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 21:47:05
43

The government are far too busy spending the NHS budget on PFI projects such as hospital buildings which will never see any staff nor equipment because their isnt enough money left over to recruit or equipt them.
45

Andean Bogtrotter,

Thurso 17/03/2008 22:18:16
"the couple who have recently moved to Lybster to take up a croft" From where might we ask? Perhaps from somewhere where there are plenty of NHS dentists. Maybe they should have stayed there and the waiting list in Caithness would be two less.
46

Ex-Blootooner,

Halifax, Canada. 17/03/2008 22:32:54
Don't employers offer dental insurance coverage like employers in canada?
My memories of nhs dentists is they'd rather pull teeth than fix them.
In and out the seat pronto.
47

Kitti Kat,

17/03/2008 23:00:40
When gov't runs things, they are sure to be messed up. Perhaps one of those who run the NHS need to have a serious toothache and be told to "wait". This has convinved me even more that a national health plan is not working and that all people are not treated in a timely fashion. And to thinnk the Dems in the US want to do the same thing. God help us!
No wonder comedians make fun of people's teeth.
48

,

17/03/2008 23:06:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
49

Albina,

Harrogate 17/03/2008 23:13:51
I wonder how many people can't afford dental treatment but still have money to waste on booze and fags?

Albina
50

carrottop,

Dumfries 18/03/2008 09:34:56
If the moaning faced gets who go on about the youth of today all the time got off their backs and encouraged our young to succeed in life then we would have enough of our own dentists qualifying to fill all the gaps (cavities).
Scotland is a cant do culture, its about time for another period of enlightenment and a can do mentality.

 

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