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SNP Budget backed by MSPs at second attempt

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Published Date: 04 February 2009
THE Scottish Government's £33 billion budget was passed at the second time of asking in a vote at Holyrood today.
MSPs voted overwhelmingly in favour of the spending plan, exactly a week after it was rejected amid angry scenes in the Scottish Parliament.

The minority SNP administration struck deals with Labour and the Liberal Democrats to secure their support for the Bill today, after both parties voted against it last week.

The Tories again supported the plans.

In the crucial vote MSPs voted by 123-to-two in favour of the budget, with only the Greens opposing the budget.

SNP finance secretary John Swinney hailed the result as a "significant step forward", but stressed ministers now had to deliver.

He said: "This is a budget for economic recovery. Securing parliamentary approval is a significant step forward, but it is only the start of our task.

"Now we must drive forward the plans and ensure they deliver for the whole of Scotland."

Labour voted with the Scottish Government after ministers agreed to an extra 7,800 apprenticeships next year, along with a summit for all those involved in providing apprenticeships.

That falls well short of Labour's original demands for 7,800 apprenticeships to be created every year for the next three years.

However party leaders stressed other factors, such as a town centre regeneration fund and money for retraining unemployed people, were key reasons why they now backed the budget.

The Liberal Democrats had originally demanded a 2p cut in income tax, but voted with the Government after it made a number of concessions to them.

These will see the SNP administration make a submission to the Calman Commission – the Westminster-backed body examining devolution – making the case for Holyrood to have borrowing powers.

This is unlikely to give First Minister Alex Salmond sleepless nights, but may be portrayed by the Liberal Democrats as them persuading the SNP to engage more closely with the Commission.

Other concessions to the Lib Dems include a jobs task force for Scotland's struggling financial sector, the creation of a cross-party body to study public spending, and a commitment to commission school projects this year along with the promise of future funds to support them.

The Greens voted against the budget for the second time, claiming the Government had produced an "inadequate response" to their calls for a home insulation package.

But Mr Swinney said: "The budget will support our economic recovery plan and includes vital measures such as the removal of business rates for tens of thousands of small businesses, the resources to enable councils to freeze council tax and a massive infrastructure investment programme which we will deliver working with our local government partners.

"We have also been able to take steps to invest crucial money in our town centres and in the skills of our workforce through increased modern apprenticeships.

"In the longer term we have agreed to take forward a Finance Sector Jobs Task Force within the context of the Financial Services Advisory Board, press the case for borrowing powers for Scotland for investment, and conduct a joint strategic review of public spending in Scotland – all important measures for the long term health of our economy."

Andy Kerr, Labour's Holyrood finance spokesman said Mr Swinney had made "important and substantial changes" to the budget.

He said: "As a result of Labour discussion and Labour negotiation there will be those extra 7,800 Scots who have the opportunity to take up an apprenticeship."

But he said: "Whilst we have recognised and welcomed the steps the Government has taken today, we can not kid ourselves into believing that as a result of our actions today our troubles are over.

"So we will continue to chase the Government and monitor the Government's action in response to the challenges we face."

Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Tavish Scott said his party had worked to secure a recovery plan at a time when the economy is in a "desperate state" .

He said: "We know from these figures that Scotland is likely now to be in both a deeper and longer recession than the rest of the UK.

"That is why Liberal Democrats worked constructively to secure an economic recovery plan with long term benefits."

Meanwhile Scottish Tory leader Annabel Goldie said: "For the second year running, the Scottish Conservatives have led the way and made the budget better.

"Our total gains of nearly a quarter of a billion pounds have made this a budget for the high street which will help Scotland to weather the worst of Labour's recession and address some of the key issues in Scotland today.

"That is why we voted for the budget last week, and this week. Not for us the petty posturing of Labour and the Lib Dems."

HOW THEY VOTED

MSPs tonight backed, by 123 votes to 2, the third and final stage of the Budget (Scotland) Bill.


• For all the very latest gossip and analysis from Holyrood, visit The Steamie, our political blog

The full article contains 842 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 04/02/2009 12:15:17
Could we be looking at an unprecedented 100% yes vote for a minority government's budget? Wow, the SNP really have got the rest of the parties over a barrel, haven't they?
2

alanh,

ek 04/02/2009 12:29:14
were there any provisions for apprenticeships in the original budget proposals?
3

Arfur,

04/02/2009 12:35:53
Fantastic news. No doubt the unionist trolls like smee and AM2 will be on shortly to try and spin this somehow into the SNP bowing down to the other parties but the facts of the matter are thus and they are undisputable:

(1) The budget will be passed with very little changed.
(2) For the first time all parties will agree the budget
(3) Salmond now has a hold over the other parties re spending
(4) Salmond now has a clear shot at discrediting Calman
(5) SNP support is up
(6) 91% of Scotland support the SNP over the budget
(7) Labour and Lib Dem support is down
(8) Labour and Lib Dem look foolish and frightened of a GE
(9) Labour look now to be voting against a budget for the sake of it

SNP have out manoeuvred Labour and Lib Dems yet again. I think Annabelle realises that if she works with the SNP that Tory support will go up, she will get more into the budget (as seems to be the case) and all she needs to do is sit back while Labour and Lib Dems go into self destruct caused by their hatred of the SNP.
4

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 04/02/2009 12:45:53
#3 Yes, there were.
5

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 04/02/2009 12:51:32
#1 yes - could be John Swinney's finest hour.

Let's wait and see.
6

alanh,

ek 04/02/2009 12:53:44
#5 Rev, how many were originally planned in the first draught of the budget?
7

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 04/02/2009 12:55:31
A pleasant dearth of unionist trolling on this thread so far. No doubt the usual suspects will be on shortly. They must be busy working overtime right now, trying in vain to produce a little Labour spin, any spin, on this one. Ha Ha.
8

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 04/02/2009 12:56:19
#7 I'm sure you're as capable of going and looking it up as I am.
9

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 04/02/2009 13:02:05
Looking for a headline, editor? Here's a few that I dare you to use:

GRAY EATS HUMBLE PIE

SCOTT BENDS OVER

HARDIE PICKS UP HIS RATTLE

SWINNEY'S FINEST HOUR

Take your pick.
10

alanh,

ek 04/02/2009 13:04:34
#9 rev,

sorry I'm not too computer literate can you direct me to where to look?
11

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 04/02/2009 13:08:27
It's funny more apprentices for non existent jobs at the end...They should include free flights to Australia for all newly qualified tradesmen.
12

Astonished,

Inverclyde 04/02/2009 13:17:32
2.ploughman's and 10 luigiana - Thanks for the laughs.


An excellent result for Scotland. Well done Mr Swinney !
13

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 13:20:25
#11 alanh
From the Times 04/02/09
“Labour were offered the same deal on apprenticeships last week before the crucial vote by John Swinney, the First Minister but opted to reject it.
However, with momentum now building up at Holyrood for all-party backing for the Budget, Labour may find it difficult to maintain that position, given that another ‘No’ could effectively isolate them.”
14

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 04/02/2009 13:25:33
#14 Cheers. Seems that alanh thinks we're his PAs...
15

Shave,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 13:26:17
#10 Luigiana - "HARDIE PICKS UP HIS RATTLE"

Hardie! I don't think the editor will be seeking your help.
16

alanh,

ek 04/02/2009 13:32:45
sorry you take that attitude rev.

i tried the govt site and have been unable to find anyone able/unwilling to give the answer to the number of apprenticeships that were already on the table despite asking quite a few times.

I knew that there were some already offerred but find it strange that the nu lie-bore, north brittian dept, are claiming thru their tame media to have won an increase in the actual numbers and being able to get away with that claim

Ta for your answer bully wee alba
17

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 04/02/2009 13:34:05
#17 I apologise if I took you mistakenly for another Unionist troll. There are a lot of them around today asking questions they don't really want the answers to.
18

salmondella,

Uk 04/02/2009 13:44:10
The NATS are living in cloud cukoo land if they think that this budget will make any differenece to the lives of the people of Scotland. It won't and I will bet my pension on it... and that goes the same for any other budget produced by any other party.

We need a total and fundemental change in the way that society organises itself and this budget goes nowhere near that.

The SNP have produced another run of the mill budget to reflect their run of the mill policies.
19

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 04/02/2009 13:49:19
#19 "The NATS are living in cloud cukoo land if they think that this budget will make any differenece to the lives of the people of Scotland. It won't and I will bet my pension on it..."

Wager accepted! What are the criteria by which you wish to judge the outcome?
20

alanh,

ek 04/02/2009 13:52:34
#18

no probs rev
21

,

04/02/2009 14:11:32
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22

Elethiomel,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 14:18:18
It strikes me that the Lib Dems have done rather well out of this.
23

,

04/02/2009 14:32:15
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24

,

04/02/2009 14:33:27
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25

,

04/02/2009 14:34:18
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26

AJ Fife,

04/02/2009 14:40:02
Once again, Mr Salmond emerges triumphant despite the pitfalls of a minority government. Bringing together the whole parliament is a feat only matched by Winston Churchill in the bleak summer of 1940 at Westminster.

Even the most rabid unionist must recognise Mr Salmond's statesman-like qualities!
27

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 04/02/2009 14:45:26
#30 You're funny. This budget is, to the last penny, the same one the Lib Dems and Labour rejected. So who was wasting Scotland's time?
28

Jimmy Le Pie,

04/02/2009 14:51:22
#28 AJ

Very good post.
29

,

04/02/2009 14:51:41
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30

Billiam Wallace,

04/02/2009 15:15:09
#32 Faake Traqueer Troll: "Why Iain Gray bailed out a fool like Swinney we will never know.

All I can say is Iain Gray is a Statesman who put his country before his party."

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! A statesman!
OH, Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha
Sorry, great laugh, thanks for that. I'm sorry but to be a statesman you have to be able to make a STATEMENT. Mumbling incomprehensible gibberish and failing miserably to explain one's position is more the condition of a village idiot than a statesman. If only all the MSP were fools like Mr. Swinney and Mr. Salmond perhaps the level of debate in Holyrood wouldn't be so cringeworthy and embarrassing
31

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/02/2009 15:17:14
15 Rev

Uncalled for.
32

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/02/2009 15:18:47
19 That's easy to refute as there will be another freeze on CT this year.
33

BillyC,

Paisley 04/02/2009 15:19:17
#32 : Traqueer, Alba

How can he put his country before his party when his party is not even Scottish but is financed from England. Surely he would need to be in a Scottish party first?
www.paisleyexpressions.blogspot.com
34

Time to Show Courage,

04/02/2009 15:19:28
Ha ha ha ha ha.

"Mr Gray added: "If you are asking me have we compromised – yes, we have"

This is priceless. Let's go over the sequence of events, (at least as far as I understand them).

Labour's original demand was for 7800 apprenticeships over each of the next 3 years.
Last week, they were offered 7800 for two years with a promise to look at a third year.
And what have they settled for? Wait for it, drum rol.......7800 over one year. You couldn't make it up. Mr Grey a statesman? I wouldn't let him negotiate the price of a stamp!

Mr Salmond is dancing a Scottish jig all of them.
35

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/02/2009 15:21:02
22 Jwil

Not so far as I can see. Have I missed the article?
36

Time to Show Courage,

04/02/2009 15:23:58
Sorry. Should have been "around all of them".
37

W Smith,

Middle East 04/02/2009 15:29:07
So the snivelling SNP will be looking forward to the 21st February 2009 then, eh?

SNP politicians will be once again joining hands with communist Kate Hudson (CND) and communist Lyndsey German (Stop The War Coalition) at the next Stop the War Coalition rally at Glasgow University.

According to Nicola Strugeon there is a "strength of feeling" in Scotland for the Palestinians.

AS IF THE COMMIES AND THESE 'ASIANS' SPEAK FOR THE REST OF US SCOTS, EH NICOLA?

BTW
The SNP's Osama Saeed will also be there representing those particluar 'asians' that Salmond likes to suck up to.

http://stopwar.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1049&Itemid=144
38

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/02/2009 15:30:27
28 AJ Fife

Not only has Salmond energed triumphant, but Labour have emerged significantly damaged. An excellent result all round. Also, could we be witnessing a coming together of the SNP and the Libdems?
39

Jimmy Le Pie,

04/02/2009 15:30:45
I've just been watching TV coverage of the Scottish Parliament.

Ian Gray looked suitably humiliated again.

I'm sure the knives are being sharpened for plunging into Gray's back.

Well done John Swinney.
40

W Smith,

Middle East 04/02/2009 15:31:16
Its not just Special Branch who are on to you know Salmond.
41

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/02/2009 15:32:40
40 W Smith

I see you are quite rattled by all of this.
42

Jimmy Le Pie,

04/02/2009 15:32:53
W Smith

Do you never tire of posting utter drivel?

We're certainly all tiring of reading it!
43

Rasco,

04/02/2009 15:33:40
What I would like to know who is going to employ these 8000 apprentices that Lab say they have won from the SNP and who pays.I'm afraid Kerr and Purvis have no credibility left after seeing them on TV today.
44

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/02/2009 15:33:50
43 Under the influence perchance?
45

Number 6,

Germany 04/02/2009 15:34:04
Gray has at least realised he and his London controlled detatchment are out of their depth
when they try to go head to head with the SNP.

Co-operation Vs Humiliation. Even for that lot, it's a no brainer.Amazing what the threat of an election does
to concentrate the minds of the trough dwellers.

I wonder how long it will take them vsee how the SNP are riding them bare-back around Parliment.

Brilliant stuff !!.
46

Time to Show Courage,

04/02/2009 15:35:07
W Smith

Take a break. Go have your afternoon nap. You'll feel better after it.

Well done Swinney, Salmond & the SNP. Another masterclass in politics.
47

Nevsky;,

Moscow 04/02/2009 15:35:33
43 Smith#

Another unionist with a brain the consistency of corned beef; keep up the entertainment!

Where are these nutters coming from?
48

Nevsky;,

Moscow 04/02/2009 15:37:23
49 Number 6#

Any bets on UK Labour splitting in the next year or eighteen months?

Scottish Labour influence within the UK party is finished and the piggies need to find another trough!
49

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 04/02/2009 15:39:14
#34 Already apologised for.
50

Time to Show Courage,

04/02/2009 15:46:17
Labour vote AGAINST a budget last week, then, this week, vote FOR a budget where they get even less than they wanted when they voted against it.

Lib Dems vote against the budget because their 2p tax variation was laughed at by everyone. Then they come back demanding that the SNP concede to two things that they already had made clear they were doing anyway.

Greens last week voted against the budget even though they were offered the full amount for their proposal. This week they end up likely with nothing.

What school did all of these clowns go to?

Stroll on SNP. Men against boys.
What school did these clowns go to
51

Davie08,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 15:48:20
Collective noun for Labour MSPs - an ineptitude
52

Number 6,

Germany 04/02/2009 15:50:10
#51 Nevsky : Labour splitting over the next 18 months IS a possibility. There will be nothing but political wreckage left after the next election.

I suppose it will depend how many of them manage to jump aboard the Euro Gravy train. That's if Prescott does not block Brown's Bairns .

As a political force, they will be as relevant as the Fib-dems after the GE so it would be the bright thing to do.

Wether any of Scotland's unionistas have the moral fibre to "Go it alone" and sever the London umbilical cord remains to be seen.
53

Esox Hunter,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 15:50:29
Good grief where do the nats get this rentamob from ? I've never heard so much drivel in my life.
54

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 04/02/2009 15:56:49
If Brian Taylor is correct, the Greens will be offered £15m + £15m, which is less than was on offer last week.

They have gambled and lost. They have also lost credibility!
55

Time to Show Courage,

04/02/2009 15:59:29
59 connaughtboy

"They have gambled and lost. They have also lost credibility!"

All 3 parties have.
56

Davie08,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 15:59:46
#58 Possibly because you are attempting to use anothers moniker? Very sad.
57

Davie08,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 16:02:28
A more honest headline would have been Labour caves in over budget.
58

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 04/02/2009 16:13:26
Shame that all the Labour/Unionists can do is try and fake names. Yet these same people say that it is ridiculous to say dirty tricks were played at Glenrothes. You know people by their actions - we know the Labour Party in Scotland and its supporters by the corruption which is endemic from party workers in constituencies right to the House of Lords. What we see them doing on these forums are just another form of their corruption and desperate attempts to hold onto power.
59

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 16:15:43
The situation reminds me a bit of the Wall in Berlin the first bricks are beginning to tumble, the tremors continue to weaken the Dry Stane Walls of Labour's 50 year rule.

Broon the plasterer wil hae his work cut oot here
60

steve52,

Kinfauns 04/02/2009 16:22:22
Maddox and Hammish Mc will be scurring around looking for excuses.

I would have to agree with those that say the Grey man was made to look like a total fool....buts whats new there?

The Libliars, well they got it right up the rear end did they not.

Good for Annie, she stuck to her guns and I can see her Tories making moves in Scotland. Just a great pity they wont break ranks with that lot down south.
61

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 04/02/2009 16:25:30
Simple thing is Sir Ek called their bluff, and Gray and Wee Tavish had to go off and change their underwear.

Well done Sir Ek. make them vote for the Budget, and then lets see them complain about it.
62

Davie08,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 16:30:47
#65 Maddox is doing his best to accuse the Sunday Herald of sabotaging Lord Foulkes in the Edinburgh Uni rectorial election. See his blog. Explains a lot though. He has obviously never outgrown student politics.
63

It's life but not as we know it,

The Oort Clouds 04/02/2009 16:39:21
Bottom line is that the SNP can't win independence. That's the only reason they exist. They can't even keep people like me on board who used to vote for them. They should just wind up.
64

steve52,

Kinfauns 04/02/2009 16:40:10
I would think that the good poncing Lord would be ideal for that position....he is always talking a load of stuff that sound as if it came out of his rectorial passage way.

I heard he was keen on the position after finding out the booze was cheaper in the uni bar and the gutters not as high as those in that there London.
65

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 16:51:47
#68

Live long and prosper - in an Independent Scotland
66

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 16:58:34
2 votes against, budget passes
67

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 04/02/2009 16:59:06
#68 So what exactly is the purpose of the Scottish Labour Party then?

Please don't tell me it exists to create a fairer society and improve the lives of ordinary, working class people.

They had 50 years to do that, mate, and here we are in 2009, are worse off than ever. Thanks.
68

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 04/02/2009 17:00:29
#71 Two squirming little green votes, perhaps?

A pair of numpties.
69

Brahann,

Fife 04/02/2009 17:01:57
Labour should et a new motto something like

"Why Shoot for the stars when you can shoot for the foot? Your Own!"

or maybe do Britney Karaoke " Oops we did it again!"

Honestly where have all the politicians of integrity and intelligent gone?

Oh Yes that's the SNP! ROFL
70

Walter Ego,

Durness 04/02/2009 17:05:30
Shame on Scottish Labour. The opposition's role is to oppose - not to go along with narrow minded nationalists. Scotland deserves better.
71

Alasdair mac Alasdair Mór Mac an Righ,,

04/02/2009 17:08:45
Well another day and it seems like the SNP are walking all over the unionist parties.

To be fair on the unionists it cannot be very easy to make policies that will not work and never have worked into a political vote winner.

If they put the people in Scotland first then maybe we would have more than one party to choose from.

#68 - Who do you suggest we should vote for. Labour / Torries / Lib Dems ?

By fighting for Scotland relentlessly the SNP have acheived more than the Unionist parties ever did or ever seemed to want.

All labour needed from Scotland was additional votes.
72

The west awake,

Argyll 04/02/2009 17:10:55
68 - "They can't even keep people like me on board who used to vote for them"

If you used to vote for the SNP you presumably did so on the basis they stand for Independence, since you say yourself that is clearly what they stand for. Therefore either you are no longer a Nationalist (have become a Unionist), or you still are but now don't like the SNP (in which case who do you vote for?).
Can I ask which and why?
It follows that either you
73

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 04/02/2009 17:11:30
#75. Indeed. However, you don't just oppose for the sake of it. When 90% of the people appeared to approve of the budget, there was no sense in opposing it. With a minority governmnet in power, pragmatism is the name of the game. Save the bulldozers for Westminster.
74

Useful Idiot,

Glasgow 04/02/2009 17:11:32
W Smith, Middle East. I suggest you go and see your GP.
75

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 17:24:22
I never thought I'd see the day, Salmond AND wins in the same sentence in the Scotsman.

The time's they are a changing


76

,

04/02/2009 17:30:03
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77

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 17:32:55
#81 RE: Health Damage

As did 50 years of Labour neglect, lowest life expectancy in Europe, but things are looking up under SNP

At least there is hope for the future...
78

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 17:33:59
SALMOND WINS LABOUR BACKING

Get used to it......
79

,

04/02/2009 17:41:29
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80

weh,

04/02/2009 17:42:52
Any bets on UK Labour splitting in the next year or eighteen months?

Scottish Labour influence within the UK party is finished and the piggies need to find another trough!"

Nevsky-Will NOT happen! Scotslabs realise they are just BOYS playing political games, and have not a CLUE what to do!

These cretins have been ordered by Bean to approve budget-Bean does NOT want Scots elections just now (which would show the rest of the UK just what WE think of them!)

Solved?
81

,

04/02/2009 17:43:06
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82

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 17:43:59
#19

What pension?

Unless you're a civil servant?
83

,

04/02/2009 17:49:15
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84

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 17:50:15
#86

I reffered to Alex Salmond winning

Independence is now a matter of time, as Labour have now officially backed the SNP

Not ON your Nelly..

I have never been in a Nellie

ROFL
85

Brahann,

Fife 04/02/2009 17:51:42
#86 "Independence...Count me out."

I'm sure cross border migration will be allowed!

Baidh!
86

McNic,

Symington 04/02/2009 17:55:50
I cant wait for Newsnicht, I hope its Brewer to watch how he goes from last weeks comments to what is undoubtedly the last thing he wanted.
In fact all the journos have got some extreme back-tracking to do.
Fantastic result from Our Govt.
87

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 17:57:16
A masterclass from Messrs Swinney & Salmond.

The threat of a general election fairly concentrated the lab/lib dum minds, and they could not wait to make up for their error of judgement last week.

It was however, curious behaviour from the Greens, who even having on offer the largest housing insulation programme Scotland has ever had, still managed to vote against the budget.
88

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 17:58:28
Who was Nelly Duff?
89

,

04/02/2009 17:58:53
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90

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 18:05:37
Dod Broon fae London toon
Said Boom or Bust?
Nae mair loon
Ye micht as weel fly tae the moon

Today he says the world's in depression
An I've a sair heid fae the budget session
Fa wud hae thocht it wid come tae this
Economics? A hit or a miss




91

Wardog™,

04/02/2009 18:05:53


86. Smee

"..Independence...Count me out....."

Are you seriously advocating that the Uk hand over all Sovereignty to the EU?

Your surprise me Smee.

Is there a 'catch' with your apparent willingness to surrender independence?



92

Nevsky;,

Moscow 04/02/2009 18:06:53
sm753#

England is a great place, no question. Any country that mocks Scottish Unionists trying who are desperate to be English has to be admired!
93

Arfur,

04/02/2009 18:07:30
86 sm753,

"Get used to it......Not in your Nellie.

Independence...Count me out."

Yet another benefit of independence. Scared little north british men who vote for Labour - ehh corrs ma daddy did it, will all move south.
94

Nevsky;,

Moscow 04/02/2009 18:07:56
sm753#

Can't believe you will be leaving Scotland when independence comes..where will you go...will you give up Scottish citizenship?
95

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 18:11:26
#94

Out of the same curiosity why do you spell Nats with a z?

I know for a fact that some people in England don't like the Germans, (Ive seen them at football matches) but they don't spell Germans with a z.


96

Brahann,

Fife 04/02/2009 18:12:02
#94 "Out of curiosity - Why do you Uber-Natz, hate England so?"

Being of German decent I grossly disapprove of this particularly racist remark.

I find drawing parallels between the SNP and the National Socialists particularly distasteful.

Racism at it's worst
97

Wardog™,

04/02/2009 18:12:27


81. Keeping snippets Smee, very ' AM2'
98

Wardog™,

04/02/2009 18:12:44

100 Hooray!
99

Wardog™,

04/02/2009 18:14:05

94. Smee

"... Why do you Uber-Natz, hate England so?..."

Yawn.

Why do the English hate Europe so much?



100

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 04/02/2009 18:14:06
#92 "It was however, curious behaviour from the Greens, who even having on offer the largest housing insulation programme Scotland has ever had, still managed to vote against the budget."

They have just voted themselves to oblivion. What a silly, odious little creep, Patrick Harvie is.
101

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04/02/2009 18:15:20
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102

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04/02/2009 18:18:06
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103

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 04/02/2009 18:18:08
Who will Annabel Goldie replace in Salmond's cabinet? MacAskill or Swinney?
104

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04/02/2009 18:20:59
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105

Nevsky;,

Moscow 04/02/2009 18:22:11
107 sm#

But aren't you forgetting that Scotland is already a nobody inernationally...no embassies..no representation and considered part of England.

Scotland is a non-entity within the UK....independence affords the opportunity for full participation in the world and to carve out own route...at the moment and internationally Scotland does not exist!

Send us a e-card from Surrey old boy!
106

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 18:23:30
#110

Auntie Bella is in line to be appointed as Leader of the Opposition, as the current incumbent has proven to be worse than useless.
107

Nevsky;,

Moscow 04/02/2009 18:23:51
110 Patrick#

No idea but Cameron is sure to replace Brown as PM soon...a unionists dream..true unionists in Westminster to look after you!
108

Brahann,

Fife 04/02/2009 18:25:31
#111 "What did you do in the war...?"

Nothing I wasn't born until after my father was released from a POW camp in Hawick in the 1950's but he was in the Luftwaffe!

Racism is as Rascism does..........

109

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 18:26:08
#111

You are one sad moron
110

Daveunderwater,

Briton 04/02/2009 18:26:10
Another drawback of being part of the union,

Britons have been labelled the world's worst holidaymakers in a survey of tourist boards around the globe.
Research by online travel service Expedia suggests Brits abroad are the least well-regarded by foreigners.

They are the rudest, meanest, worst-behaved, most linguistically incompetent and least adventurous holidaymakers, the study published on Friday claims.
111

Wardog™,

04/02/2009 18:30:20



107. Your a telegraph reader eh smee.

Didn't see you views on the foreign workers strikes.

Do you have a view on this?

112

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04/02/2009 18:30:50
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113

,

04/02/2009 18:32:33
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114

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04/02/2009 18:36:10
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115

Daveunderwater,

04/02/2009 18:37:16
Haggis n Neep an a drap o the craitur beckon
116

Wardog™,

04/02/2009 18:37:17

120. That's quite a statement Smee.

I knew you had a cringe but I didn't think it was that big.

Are you standing by that or do you want to moderate it.

You are saying that Scotland's history pre1914 is worthless.

Breathtaking

117

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04/02/2009 18:41:53
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118

Nevsky;,

Moscow 04/02/2009 18:43:46
120 sm753#

Rubbish as usual from you. Scotland has 1 person representing business for the whole country in Russia...you have not the faintest idea of what you are talking about!

Scotland has no representation whatsoever, virtually no political dialogue, no development, basically no business development, NO poltitcal input...NONE..ZILCH!

Not ever considered a country i am afraid...England is what is talked about when people mean Britain...stop deluding yourself...you are second rate within the UK and always have/will be.

Face the facts!
119

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 04/02/2009 18:46:25
#102 Brahann,

I agree with you. My girlfriend is German and I get sick of these kind of remarks, often from people who no doubt consider themselves socialists. My girlfriend's grandfather was a G.I. Both her parents were born after the war. The attitude of many anti-Europeans towards young Germans is ridiculous. It's as if being born in Germany marks you with some kind of original sin. As for branding SNP voters nazis, it seems particularly ironic, given that the Nazis branded non-practising Jews as 'Jews' and therefore all the same. It's the same tactic, even if they think they're doing it in the name of liberal/socialist values. They are, however, simply idiots.
120

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04/02/2009 18:49:17
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121

Wardog™,

04/02/2009 18:54:17

118. I agree that a trade war or protectionism is the last thing we need at the moment, however I'd still condemn Brown for even engaging in that rhetoric, he knew i the connotations when he said it and he dabbled with fire, he's now burnt his fingers.

From what I can see, the Italian subcontractor is wholly within their rights.

What was very interesting on newsnight a few days back was that the union rep confirmed that if a firm came down from Scotland and only used Scottish workers, they'd have the same issue.

A particularly local case I think., no wonder the fascist BNP are all over it.



123

Was England's history until 1914 also 'unimportant'?




122

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04/02/2009 18:57:37
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123

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 18:59:28
#128 Racist Moron

“Eyties”

Who exactly might they be?
124

Brahann,

Fife 04/02/2009 19:00:50
#126 Gregor Addison

Thanks!

125

Brahann,

Fife 04/02/2009 19:02:38
#128

“Eyties”

Q.E.D. !
126

Wardog™,

04/02/2009 19:05:42


133. I like your name

127

Wardog™,

04/02/2009 19:07:32


131. ha ha ha, aye I think Cochrane grows every more impressed with the SNP with each passing day, just a shame the old self proclaimed 'black hearted unionist' can't bring himself to even consider independence seriously.



128

Wardog™,

04/02/2009 19:08:02


133. Please read 131
129

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04/02/2009 19:09:37
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130

Boab1,

04/02/2009 19:14:31
The bottom line is that, after the public outrage at the hissy-fits thrown by Labour and the Greens especially, no party could afford to vote against the budget. To have done so would leave you politically isolated.

You know it must be a victory for the SNP when even the normally mocking Telegraph can't come up with anything and have to admit:

'Alex Salmond's £33billion Budget was passed overwhelmingly at Holyrood on Wednesday night despite being almost identical to the version rejected by MSPs a week before."
131

Gdgy,

04/02/2009 19:17:24
Well done the Libs, Lab and Tories for showing the new boys how it is done!

Sometimes a small step backWards gets you further forward in politics!!
Maybe Samrt Alec will learn?
132

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04/02/2009 19:18:04
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133

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 19:26:22
#140 Moron
“After the fall of the Roman Empire prior to WWI England's History was the Worlds History”


That comment is so imbecilic it does not deserve a reply.
134

Observer,,

Glasgow 04/02/2009 19:30:14
140 LOL ! And you claim to have studied history ! Are you going to take your comedy act to the Fringe this year Smee?
135

Jaimeson,

Scotland 04/02/2009 19:32:49
131 Traquir
Do you mean The Daily Bellylaugh?
136

BillyC,

Paisley 04/02/2009 19:34:20
All those familiar with the Paisley village idiot Councillor Terry Kelly should have a look at his latest blog on the SSPCA.

www.councillorterrykelly.blogspot.com

Care in the community has a lot to answer for these poor derranged unionists wandering around gibbering everywhere.
www.paisleyexpressions.blogspot.com
137

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04/02/2009 19:35:26
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138

Rosscobhoy,

04/02/2009 19:38:46
The result of todays vote does very little to dispel the view held by many that the Scottish Parliament is no more than an overgrown town hall. Petty squabbles for the sake of having them. Labour and the Liberals have both come out of it far worse than they really should have(wouldn't have taken a lot of thought to see what would happen) but the thing that annoys me most is it causes even more voter apathy as more and more people can no longer be bothered paying attention to it. Possibly the best thing that could happen for the Independence movement mind you, as most Nationalists i know are paying more attention and are far keener to vote when they get the chance at the next election.
139

Jaimeson,

Scotland 04/02/2009 19:45:08
No 152 Rosscobhoy
What you describe sounds very like the UK parliament.
140

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 04/02/2009 19:53:53
Iain Gray, earlier today:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=txqiwrbYGrs
141

Rosscobhoy,

04/02/2009 19:55:10
#153 In terms of voter apathy i think the UK as a whole is pretty much the same. Sadly too many people think voting for the X Factor Christmas number 1 means they have had some sort of great input in the future of the country.

Apathy is the biggest danger that we face in my opinion. Look at where it has taken the economy already when people are no longer concerned about who made what decisions and why. Sad thing is, when you get incidents like the "British jobs for British workers" it means anyone looking to discredit them has a far easier job.

Politics and how we can affect our futures should be part of our education system from an early age. I'm not advocating brainwashing kids into believing one viewpoint but we should be teaching people how to make their minds up and how important it is to play a part. At the current rate there will be a one world order or single eurozone bloc before we know it, and that will be far worse than being that bit just above England.
142

Scottish 'N British,

04/02/2009 20:09:38
117

Doh!!

Explain how withdrawing from The Union would mean automatic raising in standards, numbnuts!!

Hello? Anyone In?
143

Nevsky;,

Moscow 04/02/2009 20:13:50
156 Brit#

Wouldn't be any unionsists left. I would call that a raising of Scottish standards!

Worth billions!
144

Scottish 'N British,

04/02/2009 20:16:04
155

Good post.

145

radge dug,

04/02/2009 20:20:59
Dissapointed at the Greens. Have voted for them before but i doubt if who they have now are up for politics. Their petulant 'stand' now means they get nothing rather than something.

Would be a shame if the Greens were to fade into oblivion like the squabbling Socialists. One of the strengths of our parliament is it's reflection of more than just the main Unionist parties.
146

radge dug,

04/02/2009 20:22:50
#156 - well for a start we wouldn't have to bother with spending numerous £billions on Trident, a new fleet of warships and illegal wars/occupations in Iraq and Afganistan.

Surely that would free up some much needed capital for schools, hospitals and public transport?
147

Rosscobhoy,

04/02/2009 20:23:19
#159

Problem with the smaller parties in Scotland is that it only takes a few votes to get them out as fast as they came in. It's definitely beneficial having as many viewpoints being put across, although not so if the viewpoint being given is just to spite someone elses.
148

radge dug,

04/02/2009 20:24:14
Add to that a good few £billion from oil, whisky and tourism.
149

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04/02/2009 20:26:13
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150

Scottish 'N British,

04/02/2009 20:32:38
157

hehehe

OK, let's have a quick look at this utterly stupid and preposterous idea, which I can only presume was cobbled together through a haze of cannabis.

Question:

Explain to me how losing the manpower, and talents, of something like half the population, could possibly help raise standards?

From your cheery assertion I can only conclude that a village, somewhere, has lost its idiot.

Some drooling unfortunate whoggoes by the name of Nevsky.

Thanks for the laugh, though...
151

Jimmy Le Pie,

04/02/2009 20:44:27
I hear smee is fleeing the country(if he was ever here in the first place!)?

Its been a good day. Alex wiping the floor with the Sleaze Party halfwits and all the onionists being humiliated again on these boards, and smee fleeing the country.

Aye, another good day.
152

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04/02/2009 20:49:04
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153

Nevsky;,

Moscow 04/02/2009 20:50:28
164 Scot#

Thought you were all going to leave Scotland following a yes vote for the parliament?

Unionists will have no problem turning their coats again...that's what they do..today British...tomorrow Scottish..so it won't be a problem for you really., cheer up :-)

154

Scottish 'N British,

04/02/2009 20:51:16
I have English friends and distant-ish relatives who happily spend heaps of money here as tourists and who like millions of others in England, happily bank with the so-called Scottish banks and invest through Edinburgh and Dundee (RBSS, HBOS, Scottish Widows, Standars Life, Alliance Trust, etc).

Without exception, they say that if the countries split, what they describe as their "financial loyalties" would also change.

In effect, they would remove their dosh and reinvest in, quote "our own country."

Eighty pc of Edinburgh's financial sector depends on non-Scottish investors, a huge proportion of which are English. If any significant proportion followed through on that threat the basis of much of Edinburgh's wealth would disappear overnight.

Or did you honestly (naively) think the English would keep things as they were?

155

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 04/02/2009 20:54:52
#156

Our withdrawal from the union would of course not automatically lead to better behaviour from our English neighbours whilst abroad on holiday.

It would however help to reinforce the perception that we are not the same people as they are, and have (for the most part) different values, views and morals from them.

No-one in this country (apart from the moronic, neo fascist, racist Smee) actually supports the concept of a Scottish Tory government, whereas opinion polls in England suggest that the electorate there are enthusiastically embracing such a dreadful proposition.

We are fortunate in Scotland in having a popular Government dedicated to improving the lot of all Scottish citizens.

More power to all of their elbows.

156

Jimmy Le Pie,

04/02/2009 20:59:58
168

So we give up independence just because your 'mates' will pull their money out of Scotland because we want our freedom???

Sound a right bunch of clowns, a bit like yourself.

Tell you what though, you can send them the Trident subs that are littering the Clyde down to London and park them on the Thames, and they can use them as big piggy banks.

157

brownlie,

04/02/2009 21:20:27
168

Do you think you're the only one with English friends but you've obviously got very quaint friends.

Most of the ones I spoke to were quite indifferent whereas some thought it would be beneficial for both nations to have governments who would address their specific needs. Not one of them said that they would change banks or stop visiting Scotland. As most of them come to Scotland for things they find attractive about Scotland why on earth should they stop visiting.
158

arc of insolvency,

04/02/2009 21:53:42
Salmond, Swinney and co not as smug as they were after last years budget. I could get used to that........
159

Thomas1,

// 04/02/2009 22:02:25
Lets just face facts the whole world is fecked.
160

Rufus-T-Firefly,

04/02/2009 22:22:07
Nevsky, did you get banned again?

What have you been up to this time?
161

Tris,

04/02/2009 22:22:51
#163. Traquir.

OH how I agree with that. Did you see they head boy Milliband, pleased as a kind with a new lolly that he was the first foreign minister to meet Mrs Clinton. How demeaning and pathetic.

Specially when she fed him the nuts about the special relationship. She must have thought it was a good day's work. "That will the Brits on board for any more dirty work we want done Barack", she said when she called the White House.
162

Andy Mac,

G20 04/02/2009 22:26:58
#172 arc of insolvency,

who said he'd saved the world:

A) "smug" Salmond ?
B) Gordon Brown ?

The Nordic Council is assisting Iceland, a country that has and will continue to have a higher standard of living than the UK (and we all know what the IMF are saying about the UK).

Iceland looks after itself instead of obsessing about power and US favour, and while it's nice to see her neighbours assist, it's depressing to see the UK borg brit nats continue to follow Westminster's lead in putting her down.

Swinney's budget was designed for Scotland. The same cannot be said for any UK budget.
163

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04/02/2009 22:38:43
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