Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


Scotland over a barrel

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the Scotland On Sunday site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 27 April 2008
THE Grangemouth oil crisis escalated dramatically last night after workers refused to unload a tanker carrying 120,000 tonnes of fuel destined for forecourts.
Unions claimed the Astro Arcturus, berthed in the Forth, was attempting to break the strike and not, as agreed with refinery owner Ineos, delivering supplies to the emergency services.

Although several tankers have unloaded in recent days, continued shipments from the Netherlands and Sweden are crucial to keeping Scotland moving in the weeks ahead.

Last night, the Scottish Government revealed that seven more tankers, carrying a further 65,000 tonnes of fuel, were expected in the Firth of Forth this week, but union officials set a collision course by saying there was no agreement to unload them.

The extra cost of shipping fuel across the North Sea is likely to be passed directly to motorists and could mean prices hit £1.50 a litre during the dispute, it was claimed last night.

Meanwhile, the strike is set to cause serious economic damage if, as expected, the BP Forties pipeline is shut early this morning, cutting off £50m a day in oil company revenue and depriving the Treasury of £30m a day in tax.

But despite the mounting crisis, motorists appeared to be holding their nerve yesterday as most garages reported they still had stocks of fuel and there was little sign of the panic buying seen towards the end of last week, despite fuel prices hitting £1.23p-a-litre for unleaded in Shetland.

Some shortages were, however, reported yesterday in the north-west and north-east of Scotland. The political row over the dispute was also escalating last night. Prime Minister Gordon Brown came under pressure from political opponents to intervene, and was accused of failing to realise the seriousness of the crisis.

The oil and gas industry has also urged the Government to intervene. Chief executive of Oil & Gas UK, Malcolm Webb, said: "We appeal to the Government to intervene urgently with Unite and Ineos to stop the industrial action at Grangemouth from spilling over and hitting offshore production. This is now affecting some 80 companies and their operations which are in no way connected to or involved in this dispute."

The Grangemouth row centres on planned changes to pension plans for the plant's workforce and has led to staff beginning a 48-hour strike this morning. Last night, officials at Unite, the union representing the employees, said they could not rule out further action. Spokesman Pat Rafferty said: "We will evaluate the situation after the strike."

The refusal to unload the Greek-registered Astro Arcturus came after the vessel docked at Hound Point near Grangemouth yesterday.

Unite had agreed to allow a 'skeleton staff' on to the jetty where it was moored, but had not reached agreement with the company over unloading its cargo. As a result, the cargo was last night still on board.

A spokesman said: "We have pleaded with them to provide the cover needed to offload those cargoes. There is an agreement for providing fuel for key workers and emergency services. The point is around offloading for other uses. We are bringing in

as many (tankers] as we can from all over Europe."

The new convoys may also face similar problems in offloading their shipments from Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Gothenburg. A union spokesman said that its members would not unload any vessels that docked at or near Grangemouth.

He said: "Our members will make the jetties safe and that's it. We will unload only to supply island areas and emergency services."

On an average day, Scotland consumes about 6,000 tonnes of diesel, so these additional imports represent nearly 10 days of normal supply, ministers said.

First Minister Alex Salmond said:

"From across Europe, unprecedented supplies of additional fuel are arriving in and heading for the Forth over the coming days to make up for the loss of production at Grangemouth.

"That's good news for the country and is tangible evidence of the advice we have had for some days from the industry – that we will have ample fuel supplies to see Scotland through this dispute and well into May."

Ineos has tried to circumvent the Grangemouth refinery strike by importing fuel – "millions of dollars' worth a day", according to industry insiders – from the continent.

But as it has been forced to pay 20% extra for the cargo, it is virtually certain that the hike will be passed on to motorists.

According to an industry insider, Ineos is paying $1,108 per ton of refined fuel, compared with the normal rate of crude, which last week was $819. Instead of selling its own fuel to wholesalers at around 32p-a-litre, Ineos is currently having to spend 50p-a-litre on foreign fuel and that means the 17p price difference will invariably get picked up by the consumer, meaning a potential £1.50p for a litre of diesel.

He said: "They are spending literally millions of dollars a day buying fuel from around the world to bring into the UK to keep the country running."

Petrol and diesel prices showed wide variations across Scotland yesterday as the impact of the fuel strike continued to bite.

Glasgow appeared to be the most expensive city in which to buy a litre of either fuel, with motorists paying up to £1.19 a litre for unleaded petrol and £1.28 for diesel.

In Edinburgh, average prices were around the £1.11 mark, but were slightly cheaper in Aberdeen and Dundee. Glenrothes, in Fife, had the highest prices for diesel at £1.30 a litre.

Prices went up across the board by about 6p last week, also reflecting the record prices of oil on the international markets. However, analysts said they are expected to escalate further over the next few days as oil companies attempt to recoup the additional cost of importing oil to make up for shortages caused by the closure of the Forties pipeline.

Yesterday, panic buying of petrol appeared to ease from its height on Thursday and Friday as motorists had either stocked up or heeded Government warnings not to rush out to needlessly fill their tanks.

Although a few garages reported shortages, it was mainly due to a lack of tanker drivers to deliver fuel stocks to forecourts. As a result, some garages were still operating rationing systems.

But the overall picture from around the country was that shortages had eased. At the Morrisons petrol station on Ferry Road in Edinburgh, a spokeswoman said: "At times it has been very, very crowded with a lot of people waiting, but at other times there are no queues at all."

In Glasgow, the Government's assurances seemed to have paid off as it was business as normal at the pumps. There were shortages of diesel and petrol in places, but assistants said this was down to panic buying early last week.

In Dundee, forecourts appeared eerily quiet for a Saturday, with garage owners claiming any panic was over.


The full article contains 1170 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Angus Ogg,

26/04/2008 22:00:40
1. Well we followed the advice not to panic buy.

2. As a result two of our works vehicles have not been able to work through fuel shortage for 3 days now.

3. If this continues, two employees will be laid off.

4. Is this the result our "brothers & sisters" of the Unite union want ?

Solidarity my a r s e.

Highly militant and relatively im potent hard left wing union leaders have invaded a local dispute and riled up the workers to a fever point. This is a dispute manufactured by far left wing s cousers who want to build up some muscle for their failing union at any cost.

The cost is now for fellow workers to lose their jobs, and for a nation to become economically crippled.

All for prehistoric political dogma.

There is a balance in all things. Too far on the right with greedy employers is bad, and so too is too far on the left.

It is about time some politician of any political colour took a lead and sorted this appalling mess out.
2

bill2,

27/04/2008 00:24:40
This is just the beginning,
3

Trotskyite,

West Lothian 27/04/2008 00:30:12
Gentlemen of the Press, the Astro Acturus is a crude oil tanker and will not be carrying refined product to or from anywhere. Hound Point is the terminal from which Forties crude oil is exported and is owned and operated by BP. As such it is not within the scope of the dispute at the Ineos refinery up river. This story is sensationalist, inflammatory and factually inaccurate and not what I'd expect from your hitherto high quality newspaper. The refinery is still exporting fuel by road to keep forecourts supplied.
4

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/04/2008 00:36:37
4 reporters and none of them can tell you that it was £1.20 per litre in Grangemouth of all places.

5

Hmm ...,

27/04/2008 00:40:02
... an effect of this fag-end government is that the far left sees the chance to stir up industrial relations - tough on the workers now on strike. But that's OK so long as the Trots have the chance to flex their muscles and see what damage they can do.

And what is the strike about? Future recruits' pensions. Get real, stop making yourselves pariahs and get back to work, you dummies!
6

Jock Tamson,

Putting reporters on the spot 27/04/2008 00:41:14
Hey, Scotsman stable reporters, get on your horses and go to the scene. Be on the spot for a change. Instead of being put on the spot.
7

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/04/2008 00:48:34
I take it Ross Chemicals @ Grangemouth(Q8) is not affected by the Ineos/Unite dispute? Don't they unload from tankers anyway? That was the case when I worked on the new overhead gantries for filling the petrol tankers at the Forth side of the mollasses tanks about 15 years ago.
8

,

27/04/2008 00:49:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
9

,

27/04/2008 00:55:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 01:56:32
Its all becoming a, 'Conspiracy' in this Paper Anyhow!

Yesterday the article about paying £6.00 per Gallon completely disappeared after 3hours on being on here!

'WHY'

BTW, the Scotsman may think is deleted, but it is NOT as Google catches all!

Put,..£6 per Gallon Scotsman News, into Google, and see the article!

Yes the Secret Service, is now starting a 'Cover Up'!

As is this News Paper!
11

,

27/04/2008 02:09:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

claire voyant,

borders 27/04/2008 02:09:47
Jim Ratcliffe, the owner of Ineos bought the former ICI site at runcorn. He then demanded 300 million from the government, otherwise he would close the site. He got 50 million. I see a pattern developing. Hes already mentioned that the Grangemouth site needs 750 million spent on it. It doesn't take a genius to work out whats coming next. Someone had better explain it to messrs Salmond and Brown.
13

Charles MN,

27/04/2008 02:25:55
You are quite correct Claire this has nothing to do with pensions. So what is the ulterior motive? Every time you see a Ineos spokesman on TV they talk about investing £750m. This is all about getting Government grants to pay for updating the plant. Obviously the £380 million a year they make isn't enough.
14

Alan Reid,

NZ 27/04/2008 03:28:03
"Scotland over a barrel" For once a true headline. Although it's missing something, it should read Scotland tied into this Union is over a barrel!
15

W Smith,

Middle East 27/04/2008 04:04:24
Where is muscovy duck breeding Salmond?

This is his James Callaghan moment - "crisis, what crisis?".

Salmond is too left wing to condemn this strike and the party activist are on line already telling us that everything will be different after independence.

RUBBISH!

Salmond has always been a leftie and now the militant tendency in the SNP is coming to the surface.

If Scotland becomes independent within a year the STUC communists will want to govern the nation throught the back door.

Salmond is clearly not up to it and, in fairness to our Alex, neither is Wendy Alexander.

So its up to the Tories to sort this out!

16

Shhh... you know who,

27/04/2008 05:18:02
This hoo-hah is the doing of an uncoordinated bunch of bored rabble-rousers and NOT, as some commentators have wrongly claimed, the start of the Summer of Discontent. That will come later, just as soon as the EU orders it. Its objective will be to undermine and discredit national government(s), so as to encourage a disillusioned electorate to assume that things could only get better under... the EU regime.

Do not make the naive mistake of assuming that meaningful political power resides anywhere in the UK these days. It doesn't.
17

Alan Reid,

Aberdeen 27/04/2008 05:29:04
W Smith: It's Mrs Salmond who breeds the ducks d1ckhead, try and keep up.

What gets me is all this money coming from Scotlands North sea oil. And yet for years the UK goverment tried to keep a lid on this.

The UK government has known for more than 30 years that Scotland does support itself financially.

For example, Professor Gavin McCrone, Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, advised the UK government in 1975 of the truth about Scotland’s finances. As Chief Economic Adviser to the Secretary of State for Scotland, he prepared a report, “The Economics of Nationalism Re-examined”. His report advised the UK government that an independent Scotland would have a massive budget surplus. It was promptly classified "Secret" and suppressed. It came to light only in 2005, when the UK government was forced by law to release it.

The UK government’s ‘Government Expenditure and Revenue in Scotland (GERS) report provides another example of the UK government’s duplicity. This was finally exposed by forensic accountant Niall Aslen's analysis of the 2005 GERS report. The analysis (available at http://tinyurl.com/y

p7osx) was based entirely on the UK government’s own figures, with one exception for which UK government figures were not available. Mr Aslen documented the sources of all the figures.

Mr Aslen's analysis exposed the UK government’s egregious misallocation – to Scotland’s serious disadvantage – of revenues (not just oil revenues) and costs. If a private firm cooked its books half as seriously as the UK government's GERS report, its directors would be in jail.

Mr Aslen's analysis convincingly demolished the assertions that Scotland was being subsidised by the rest of the UK. But the British press ignored or suppressed it. Luckily, enough people saw it on the internet before the 2007 election to discredit Labour’s claims that Scotland was running a £11.2-billion deficit. Mr Aslen’s analysis showed that Scotland actually had a £9.6-billion surplu
18

Alan Reid,

Aberdeen 27/04/2008 05:30:48
So W Smith, since your the expert on Scottish matters give us the low down on that last post.
19

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 27/04/2008 06:26:43
And fat Alex fiddles while Scotland burns.
20

M Perth Oz,

WA 27/04/2008 06:41:25
#12 You pathetic green eyed cretin, if your that jealous get off your fat toosh and do something about it.

The refinery workers are a highly skilled and sought after workforce, trust me on this I now work in oil and gas in WA, the INEOS workforce are highly regarded all over the world, have you noticed that large intenational oil company's advertise in the Falkirk Herald ?.

They are well payed, but it is the industry standard, without the money the complex brings in and distributed around the central region, especially Falkirk, the area would rapidly go down hill.
Ineos have done nothing but lie and break promises since they bought the facility.This generation of workers have to look out for the next lot.

Maybe it was time all you whingin yellowbellys on this site should start standing up to your employers,maybe then you'd get better conditions,pay and pensions.

Good on you the Ineos employees, the whole of Scotland should be behind you, and follow your lead.
21

Cretan,

Some where in Greece 27/04/2008 07:12:52
Roll on independance
22

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 07:29:19
22 Cretan-"Roll on Independence" Eh?
Wrong forum shurely?
23

1745,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 07:34:05
Is this somewhat reminiscent of the Miners strike? Maybe Broon should ask Maggie's advice ?
24

jaw,

edinburgh 27/04/2008 07:50:13
To M Perth oz, I agree in some of what you say, people should be behind them, but if No 12 is correct that they get between £40,000 and £60,000 a year, surely a final salary pension for them is silly. OK they are fighting for future people coming in, haven't all companies now had to rethink pensions.
Look at the local goverment, if they haven't money to pay pensions they have to put the council tax up, it's just a knock on effect all over, so come on, get with the plan.
25

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 07:54:39
This is unfortunately a reserved matter and the Scottish Government have no power to do anything. So far their main contribution was the offer of assistance from the head of the Faculty of Actuaries in Scotland. Why this was refused has not been made clear as yet.
Gordon Brown has as usual gone to ground and has been issuing statements about the election in Zimbabwe, a great help to those sitting in forecourt queues in the coming weeks. His numerous ministers appear on TV and seem to be powerless to do anything except maybe make the situation worse by their "Corporal Jones" attitude which is encouraging panic buying.
26

steve 1511,

aberdeen 27/04/2008 07:55:14
well happy english,since it is the responsibility of the british government at westminister to maintain fuel supplies and NOT the scottish parliaments,how will the english be bailing out british citizens ,it is a british government that will supply fuel to scotland and its british citizens not an english government you do not have an english government, like most enlishmen you have a big gob and a small brain that does not have a clue what is going on in scotland,
27

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 07:57:29
#27. Agree. All companies rethinking unsustainable pensions and mostly employees inderstand this and are now so greedy as these people.

Emotive 'spin' words like 'protecting future generations rights' are total bo11ox.

The unions arrogance here is staggering, bring a country to this so much self interest. No wonder there is no symathy apart from the old far left nutters and those with self interest.

This from an ex shop steward too!
28

Sonare,

27/04/2008 07:58:57
I reckon that the likely difference in income to an employee earning £50,000 currently in a Final Salary Scheme; compared to a future employee seeking to match any current benefits through a proposed Money Purchase Scheme; will be a reduction of approx. £40 per week in spendable income. For standard rate taxpayers just below the higher rate tax band, the net loss will be similar.

This means many members joining a new scheme will have to plan for some £40 a week outlay coming from their own resources should they wish to improve on, or have similar pension benefits to those that exist through final salary.

As most of the folk whose cause we are supporting haven't been born yet, it helps to remember that they may accept or decline any employers future employment conditions, as compared to other opportunities on offer at the time.
29

Argyll on line,

Argyll 27/04/2008 08:09:52
Time to get tough with those greedy bustarts.
30

puskas,

East kilbride 27/04/2008 08:13:25
Brown has been an expert in deceiving pension fund holders for 10 years or since he made his first budget..
Kept secret until a fortnight before the Holyrood elections last year ..
Ineos have a previous close history with this NuLiebour government and nothing would surprise me if manipulation between both to cause this dispute has taken place.
This Westminster government full of parasites would after all as we know stop at nothing to try to win support from an electorate that are about to send them into oblivion....
A nice manipulated dispute and attempting to appear strong will not win them votes next week.
Or in Scotland in the future. Liebour have been found out once to often during their long spell in government.

Nothing more is worth fighting for than a pension fund that all employees have been happy with.. And why not for future new starts .

Ineos are making millions / billions and any re-investment can be dealt with at no expense from capitulation of the work force...

I and many others have been screwed in the past by companies and none more so than Brown in his first budget..
Lets say I'm suspicious of all parties in this dispute.
The shop floor workers are quite possibly being used as pawns in a despicable political game.
31

School Inspector,

27/04/2008 08:13:35
Tell those lazy sods to get back to work.
32

School Inspector,

27/04/2008 08:14:10
Tell those lazy sods to get back to work - or ask the Poles / Lithuanians to step in and run the country.
33

jacabite view,

27/04/2008 08:19:42
This strike is good news.

Rotterdam oil processes are looking at increased processing orders, employment experts are ready to sign 'post-employment' training schemes and the SNP are ready to blame the labour party. I should think the owners of the plant are also counting the cash from facility sales and why not, oil prices are rich.

Its cash out time for managers and union leaders.

Stikes like this always create money for some one.
34

Newt,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 08:20:18
It's been interesting to hear the teachers in England being villified by the public for asking for a pay rise in line with inflation when they earn £34,000 or less (£34k is top of the payscale) and have the nations future in their hands while this is the first time I've heard negative comments about workers on an average of £40k striking over ther removal of a NON-CONTRIBUTARY pension (anyone else got one of those?) for folk not even working yet. Yes, teachers get good holidays, but they don't just work 9-3 - more like 8-6 in most cases I know, plus a large proportion of their weekends and holidays - and there's no pay for the overtime and little or no sympathy or recompense for the stresses suffered in many schools (physical and verbal abuse from children & parents alike). There is an ignorance all round about what other people's jobs involve and a over-readiness assume - we've all been to school so we THINK we know what teachers do, though few other professions suffer this assumption from the public. A bit off topic, possibly, but it's interesting to see the differences cast into light by these two strikes.
35

Non!!,

East Britain 27/04/2008 08:31:07
What do you bet the "workers" will turn up for work when the two day strike is over, the plant will be shut and the pipeline too. They won't be able / willing to perform their normal duties or any tasks of which they do not approve, but they'll want to be paid just the same."It's their 'uman rights ennit." How would Russia, the home of communism and solidarity, deal with this mess d'ye think.
36

scorchio,

West of the Pecos 27/04/2008 08:38:05
From what I understand, the company will not offer final salary linked pensions to future employees, and the Trot/Marxist dinosaurs have decided they will decide what is paid to whoever, not the employer.
Sounds like the old commies are still around, and able to manipulate/intimidate, as they liked to in times past.
I for one hope Ineos take them on.
37

Alan Reid,

NZ 27/04/2008 08:51:21
20 Patrick O'Reilly, What has Mr Salmond go to do with it you pr!ck. This is the responsibility of the british government.
If you half wits don't want to bail us out, which you wrongly claim to do, then why don't you vote for independance?
38

Mikey,

27/04/2008 08:53:33
I know this question will be anathems to all the union jocks on this rag, but since energy is 'reserved,' what is London doing to halt the crisis?

Do you think that if the refinery in question had been on the Isle of Grain that it would have gone this far?

Some 'honest' union jocks will attempt to answer the questions while the rest of the brain dead unionist weirdos will probably just vilify me for asking!
39

,

27/04/2008 08:55:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
40

gus1940,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 08:55:32
Even if the tanker was carrying refined products does anybody other than idiot SoS journalists imagine that they would be fit to be put in car petrol tanks after having been pumped through pipelines that have been used to carry crude oil for 20 odd years.
41

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 08:59:54
44 Mikey-one could also ask-what would Holyrood do if energy was NOT reserved? It would be nice to debate an issue such as this without bringing the "Eternal Conflict" into everything. If Scotland were Independent its politicians would have their successes and failures like everyone else.Independence and Alex are not a panacea for everything!
42

mrsbruce,

Livingston 27/04/2008 09:05:08
In reply to message 32.

You're not quite grasping it are you.

The British government has the control of this situation (allegedly).

The British government are the one's who have to sort it out.

No-one else apart from the employer and the union can legally do that.

All the Scottish government can do is suggest everyone talk. The power still lies with the British government.

Is that clear enough for you?
43

puskas,

East kilbride 27/04/2008 09:06:41
Westminster has a dirty hand in this dispute.
44

mrsbruce,

Livingston 27/04/2008 09:10:37
In reply to message 47.

I agree, it would be good to debate that point properly, but almost impossible without the knives coming out.

I also agree with your last sentence, all governments balls up. I once heard a quote from an American General which I believe applies to governments too, "Winning a war is based on who makes the least mistakes". Paraphrased of course.
45

jdships,

27/04/2008 09:16:04
Intersting thought over the past year that a pattern is emerging .
If the political news is good it is all down to the "Scottish Government"
If the political news is bad it is all down to the "British Government"
As a "don't know" voter who do I believe because I don't trust Salmond or Brown - ah michty me whit dae ah dae ?
46

Big Smoke,

27/04/2008 09:25:31
I've heard that the union rep had a great deal put in front of him from bosses and hid it from the workers, story goes is that he views a great career in unite and this is a great way to make a name for himself.

My opinion though, the workers are greedy s**ts, good paid job and they want to save the pension for future workers, p*ss off!
47

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 09:29:15
44 ...Well as the Government know that there is enough fuel in store to cope with this and it is the Motorists who are Panicking .We Pedestrians are Chilled about it ..It is just another lot of Greedy B`s wanting a bigger share of the Rip Off Pot ....I wonder how many of the Panic Merchants ( Car Drivers ) in this are are coping with the duplicity of being "Eco Friendly" and Petrol Hungry at the same time ..another thing there is a lesson here.. The next time you hear the Comment about " They are only after the Oil" about whichever Government ...Look at the State of the Motorists over this ..Total Panic Merchants ..did they say ...I`ll just use Public Transport for a couple of days till this blows over ...No!! they all starting freaking out and burning up the fuel they had looking for more ..So ...Just Imagine if all the Oil dried up what a sorry state we all would be in ...The Oil Junkies couldnt handle it ...
48

carrottop,

Dumfries 27/04/2008 09:32:10
Unions are trying to go back to the 'good old days'.
Next to nobody other than the lefty brigade, who think everyone owes them a living, want this. I hope the Grangemouth mob are not allowed back to work until the system is up and running again as they are the cause of the down time. DO NOT pay them to sit on their backsides and smirk while the pipelines are made operational again.
Another great blunder by the socialists and a few more points in the SNP bag.
49

Willie,

27/04/2008 09:36:06
Scotland on Sunday should be ashamed of itself!!
Article is another crude attempt to get the Scottish Public to panic. Typical Tory Rag!!
Read the comments of #3
Hound Point doesn't have an import pipe line so how are they going to get the petrol ashore. Its an Export Facility.
Then theres the bilge about £1.50 a litre.
Every hour of every day petrol tankers are at sea around the UK and Europe delivering product to ports everywhere. Buying on the spot market doesn't increase the price to the degree claimed.
Its sad that a once great newspaper is now so much c***.
Mays you think if their preferred party get back into power what will happen then?
50

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 09:39:37
51 ..Mrs " Now you seeme ..Now you Dont " Salmond is on the Job ...Under the Guise of a Breeder of Ducks that is a cover up as she has been beavering away and is now in the final stages of her Duck Oil experiments although she is keeping the results close to her chest ...she will not reveal how many Ducks it takes to fill a can as she fears reprisals by the Animal Liberation Army ...but not too Worry ..Alec eats all the evidence...
51

Indyman,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 09:40:35
Surely the figures being released through this dispute dispell the myth of Scotland being subsidised by the rest of the UK.

If the closing down of the pipeline from the Fortes field is costing the UK Treasury £30million a day, just how much does Scotland subsidise the UK?
52

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 09:44:15
As Wee Eck was in the Socialist Republic Org the 79 Group it is his underlying beliefs we should worry more about.. after all he is a Marxist.....
53

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 09:49:23
50 mrsbruce-thanks for ur comment.
51jdships-"I dont trust Salmond or Brown" Well theres always the LibDems in Scotland-not much difference in their policies and those of the SNP and NuLabour if politically that is broadly your home.For Westminster theres wee Cameron-comes across as a bit smarmy but at least the Tories would be fresh faces in government and, come to think of it,theres not much to distinguish them from NuLabour,Libdems,and...oh I dont know jd!
54

Pilrig.,

Livingston 27/04/2008 10:07:58
24 - she'd tell him to close doon the Grangemooth refinery
55

Quo Vadis,

27/04/2008 10:09:18
If there was refined fuel being imported it could come into the Finnart Ocean terminal on Loch Long. There is a pipeline directly between the facility and Grangemouth. I used to work at the site from time to time. Originally it was used to berth VLCC (very large crude carriers) which offloaded to a huge tank farm and was then piped to Grangemouth. It waslater converted to allow refined product to be pumped from Grangemouth to small tankers which supplied the west coast and Ireland. I don't see a problem in reversing this unless the plant is Ineos owned. It used to be BP.
There are also quite a few MoD/NATO terminals at Ardyne,Gairloch etc which could be pressed into service in the Scottish national interest.
56

Pilrig.,

Livingston 27/04/2008 10:11:46
51 Boudica, Queen and Iceni tories - "now you see me - now you don't" Surely you must be referring to our PM Macavity Broon. Well known for hiding when the going gets tough.
Plus it was Broon's "Robert Maxwellesque" raid on company and private pensions when he was Chancellor which laid the ground for this dispute
57

Pilrig.,

Livingston 27/04/2008 10:15:05
42 Senator Joe lives !
58

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 10:40:25
Pilrig ....Tory me ? ...My boys will have a good laugh at the one ...as for GB ..some see him as a ditherer ..me I see him as cautious ...and everyone shouts Uturn when he does something the Public wants..I call it listening ... .I dont think he is has media savvy as TB or AS but that is a good thing as far as I am concerned " Celebrity Politics" is what got TB the Big E ..and the UK Public are seriously P off with that style of Politics .But some dont learn that lesson ...Salmond is another one who fails to take note of that ....and as for the SNP tactics ...very iffy ...the cash for honours fiasco ..that was down to an SNP MP reporting it wanting it researched back to 1925 .....and Scotland isnt very fond of "Grasses "...He didnt do it for the Good of the Country ..he did for his own and his parties agenda ...so that shows what stuff the SNP politicians are made off ....so notjhing to boast about there ...and you can bet there will be more SNP sh-t hitting the fan in the near future ...
59

R. Maclean,

cumbernauld 27/04/2008 10:46:28
The workers at Grangemouth are well paid and do not have to pay into their pension scheme which is almost unheard of now. The company are asking for a 1% contribution which is not unfair in the pension world of to-day. Most companies now do not allow new entrants to enter their existing schemes so they should wise up to the real world
60

Senga Jean,

Scotland 27/04/2008 10:49:59
Dearest Boudica...what these events remind Scotland of is the fact that we send huge revenues to our neighbour and beg for just a little in return. The generous Scots have the highest poverty levels along with the HIGHEST FUEL PRICES of not just oil producing nations but ALL nations. What Boudican spell have you cast on the Scots. When they wake they will be INDEPENDENT.
61

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 27/04/2008 10:50:45
To those who think otherwise an Export pipeline can be used for importing it just means closing and opening a few different valves although you dont need a pipeline to load road tankers they can be loaded direct from the ship,
also Ido know there are plans inthought of closing Grangemouth refinery and dismantling it and moving the refining section to immingham. eventially releasing the land for future developement if scotland wants to be carbon free it will have to give up all its oil products and move to greener stuff but I dont think the government is genuine on green issues. and no the mod terminals cannot be used we are closingthem anyway and moving all military south
62

Publius,

London 27/04/2008 10:58:19
#56 Willie

You write "Every hour of every day petrol tankers are at sea around the UK and Europe delivering product to ports everywhere. Buying on the spot market doesn't increase the price to the degree claimed."

Right on. And for what it's worth there is less diesel aboutthan unleaded. In recent times the the UK has been a net importer of refined diesel and a net exporter of refined unleaded. (The fashion for diesel cars came later to the UK than to the continent, because diesel doesn't have the same tax break here. So we never built enough diesel refining capacity.)

For Alex Salmond to claim that extra ships are coming from Europe and to imply that it is his doing is absurd pretentiousness. He does not say - cannot say -whether they are carrying crude, diesel, unleaded or aviation spirit. He can't say whether they would have come anyway. He can't say whether they are following a UK government plan to replenish stocks (a lot of plans were made after 2000). He can't say whether it is simply the market responding to shortages in one place and surpluses in another.
63

Publius,

London 27/04/2008 11:00:16
#68 Senga Jean

I thought that Norway had higher petrol prices than the UK - and Norway has even more oil.
64

zorba,

airdrie 27/04/2008 11:17:26
£1.50 a gallon! they are telling us that they have 70 days supply of fuel and not to panic buy, can someone then explain why the price has to increase. This labour government is a shambles, and a bunch of liars.
65

,

27/04/2008 11:25:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
66

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 11:25:34
Senga ..for a child not to have a Bike is deemed deprivation in the UK or have you even looked into what relates to Poverty in the UK ? ..I agree that some could do with lessons on how to live with what you have ...till you can get what you need to change it....further Education etc ..it is all out there and it has benefited Scotland ..that is one of the reasons Scotland has been doing so well in the last 6 yrs ...and why ? because it was a Labour Government in Westminster that got us this far ...Not the SNP ...You act like the SNP are the calavary and have come into rescue a "Poor Deprived Subjicated Scotland " ....I dont know were you came from in Scotland ..but I was brought up to be Proud of Scotland and what we had already done and were going to do ..I had Grandfathers and Uncles that gave their Lifes so we in the UK could have the freedom we have ....Tell me when those men and women came back to Scotland after the War ...How many of them started to shout for " Scotlands Independence" I`ll tell you very few if any ...the reason being ? look into SNP History ..you`ll get your answer there and the Party of the 40`s isnt any different from the Party nowadays in its core beliefs ...Oh! and another thing ...Why is Alec so quiet on Mugabe ? ...I thought he wanted Scotland to have a Voice on the International stage ...So let me get it ...Alec will only speak on the International stage against the USA and the UK but will keep his opinion to himself when regarding his penpals ..Yep he will do Scotlands Repution no damage at all will he...
67

Pilrig.,

Livingston 27/04/2008 11:26:43
65 Boudica, Queen of the NU Lab Iceni - thanks to Broon's little escapade with company and private pensions, me and quite of of other blue-collared working class types will have to work beyond the age of 65. Add to that, we're ripped off big style with fuel prices: some Saudi princling catches the cold and up go the prices. And of course the Dick Turpins in UK treasury do their bit with the excessive tax on fuel. The occupant of No. 11 Downing St, is due to hike fuel duty even higher come October.
Maybe these jokers think the ordinary working man and woman is undeserving of driving a car, or having a holiday aboad, who knows ? but please spare me any cattle manure about this measures being essential to saving the planet (yawn).
68

boudica,

Glasgow 27/04/2008 11:29:09
Zorba ...because the all Petrol Pump owners are Greedy b`s...it is called Profiteering .....
69

Pilrig.,

27/04/2008 11:38:39
77 Boudica - add to that the UK treasury.
Anyway I'm off, driving doon to Melrose in a wee while. Oh what a sin - me using up the planet's and country's precious resource ! : )
70

Phil C,

27/04/2008 11:39:37
Groundhog Day. Both barrels should be pointing at disUnite. Selish, greedy, ignorant, thick, pig-headed b's.
71

b.allan,

lothians 27/04/2008 11:43:54
oil and pensions are reserved matters. Mr "north britain" began creating the current pensions situation many budgets ago, as part of his steal from the poor to make the rich wealthier philosophy. Still they pretend to be a socialist party. Shame on them. The SNP government has done all they can as i repeat this is a reserved matter. Meanwhile Mr Broon appears to prefer to talk about Zimbabwe...
72

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 11:50:41
68 Senga Jean-the UK has amongst the highest petrol price at the pumps yes, but as to the Scots having the highest poverty levels amongst ALL nations!!?! This simply isn't true-not even remotely true.
73

Dileas,

27/04/2008 11:56:35
I think that everyone is being unkind to happyenglish - it is understandable for any English people to confuse the Westminster government with England. Even the PM manages to confuse the two. Add to that the peculiar English arrogance and perception that their local area within England is the centre of the universe and it would be difficult to see it otherwise. Westminster is as foreign to them as Brussels is to the rest of us.

IN my youth I had a job interview with Westinghouse, a major US corporation. The interviewer said that they liked recruiting Scots - the British spoke their language and had a good professional standard but the Scots fitted in better - get three Englishmen together and they form a colony. His exact words!
74

Black Five,

edinburgh 27/04/2008 12:04:08
This just gets worse.These commies from Grangemouth are holding the country to ransom.
75

Mensa George,

Washington, DC 27/04/2008 12:06:51
Just fire the strikers and hire new folks. Duh?
76

boudica,

Glasgow .. 27/04/2008 12:28:22
82 ..Leave Senga alone she is living in that 4th Dimension Scotland ..Ypu know the one were it is a 3rd World County but has the Potential. to be 3rd Richest Country in the World .....and of Course Geoff ...Scotland will be in a better position To take over the World ...Fred the Shred in Charge of the Finances for this endeavour.....
77

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 12:36:30
86 Boudica-:)
83 Dileas-I think you are unfair to my friend happyenglish-after all the English are the only Home Nation not to have an assembly of their very own and have to use the British Union Parliament as an ad hoc English forum. NuLabours halfbaked devolution settlement has left the English, and many others understandably confused.
78

subrosa,

27/04/2008 12:41:51
I have concerns about both parties in this dispute but I do not think it's very wise to keep pillorying the owner of Ineos for being a multi-millionaire. So what? The man is obviously a risk taker and it's paid off.

As for the leader of Unite he's dreadful and does nothing for his members except appear to whip them up into a frenzy. I noticed on TV this morning there were no other unions at Grangemouth supporting them. They're staying out of it and ought to do too.

Hopefully this will concentrate political minds to ensure that our utilities are kept under national control and not in the hands of one private individual and a union whose leader thinks he's making himself king.
79

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 12:41:52
85 Mensa george-Just fire the strikers and hire new folks.Duh? Ah Mensa,Mensa were it that easy. the rest of the world is not as in the States. I love(sometimes_ as an employer, watching american movies in which the boss calls in a worker and says "You're fired! Clear your desk in half an hour!" Here in south Africa-modelled on our Commonwealth partner Britain, we have to issue endless warnings and go thru interminable hearings even for serious offences, before we can fire anybody.
80

Dileas,

27/04/2008 12:44:24
Geoff (87) said "NuLabours halfbaked devolution settlement has left the English, and many others understandably confused."

Sorry Geoff - they have been confused all my life. They just couldn't tell the difference between "England" and "Britain", seeing them as synonymous - until recent years when devolution made them realise the difference - as you say, they have grasped that Westminster is British rather than English. Never mind that it is still overwhelmingly pro-England; they see a lack of advantage to England, which is really what matters to them. When the Scottish parliament introduced benefits available from its existing budget, they realised that Scotland now had benefits that they didn't and that just wasn't good enough. Hence this moaning from happyenglish.
81

Angus Ogg,

27/04/2008 12:56:16
#10

Commenting before midnight is no great thing.

Anyone with half a brain can do so if they wish.

You just have to think laterally and go via a different route.

I ain't going to spell it out. But a reasonable clue is...

"Back To The Future".

That and using your copy and paste function.

It suits me to comment early because I need to go to work early. That is when there is any fuel about.
82

Angus Ogg,

27/04/2008 13:01:29
#9,

Manure. Very good.

If you want to be rude, go do it in the privacy of your bathroom. If you want a debate, fine, I am up for it.

Please explain to me, how you would tell a guy whose wife has just had a new baby that he is out of a job?

Why, because two dogmatic political opponents, one on the far right and one on the far left have been firing up some hapless local union official so that "his" workers go on strike to paralyse a whole nation and cost good, decent, working people their jobs?

Answer me that and I will have some respect for you.

Twins? Perhaps Not.
83

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 13:36:54
90 Dileas-you're absolutely right about the English/British confusion from the south britons. A kind interpretation would be ignorance altho some would be justified in saying arrogance. What I can't get my head around is how the worlds media constantly reinforces the ignorance talking of "Englands Queen Elizabeth" and Englands support for america etc..
84

Robert Mason,

Larkhall 27/04/2008 13:40:01
Have just seen John Swinney on TV. Now I remember why the SNP ditched him as leader.
85

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 13:40:25
92 Angus Ogg-interesting comment. In general strike action is such a sad way of handling disputes-lose-lose is guaranteed! Surely there has to be a better way?
86

Knapdarlich,

27/04/2008 13:47:11
#52 - If its true that one of the joint conveners fancies himself as a branch secretary or whatever this may be getting in the way of his guidance to ordinary members. The other convener would have to be his puppet/ muppet and the ordinary members his Pandys for them not to see this. Surely not?? Always hardest to see the things right in front of your nose.

#56 - a distressed buyer in bulk has to pay whatever the market can screw out of them. Since any demand ex Grangemouth is pure incremental demand over and above normal I would expect INEOS to be being royally done over in the market. This will be reflected at the pump.

Thanks boys.
87

Charles MN,

27/04/2008 13:53:55
#92 If diesel is so important to your business would it not be worthwhile keeping a wee stock of it. I don't know where you are based but there is no shortage of fuel around here.
88

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 13:55:50
Meths-100 for the Union?
89

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 13:57:00
100 for the Union
90

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 13:59:08
Thats the UNION not the union by the way chaps!
On the way out Meths-will look at tinyurl on my return!
Bated breath!
91

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 14:05:29
Have just seen the main protagonists on the Politics Show. Firstly, Nicol Stephen, what a ninny. Alex Salmond doing what he should be doing - being constructive, that MP for Falkirk, doing what he should be doing - standing up for his constituents. Union rep from Manchester, measured and nicely explained. Guy from Ineos, PR spinner for a major company, nothing unexpected, emotion not clarity.
Why do companies who play with industrial relations like this have leave to own strategic concerns like this one - I'm not sure that free market fundamentalism is really an answer to this.
If this strike fails then they will expect us all to work for nothing.
92

Knapdarlich,

27/04/2008 14:08:54
How can the refusal to off-load fuel cargoes from shipping into Grangemouth be in anyone's interests? The union have gone mad with this - this must be a huge political mistake.

They're saying "There's fuel at Grangemouth buy YOU can't have it". I've no doubt that they would consider themselves to be "essential services" and will likely demand fuel prioritisation for themselves if things get really sticky, and also demand that they be subsidised if fuel prices go through the roof - because, of course, none of this is their fault.....

Its hard to grasp the extent of conceptual and idealogical disconnect that these people have from the rest of us.
93

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 14:11:27
GBscot
Arrest the owners better, for sabotage motivated by greed in their pursuit of the third world in the developed world.
94

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 14:12:26
Knapdarlich 105
It's not true, the story is false.
95

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 14:16:06
I note with some interest that the organisation responsible for this disruption is actually a major contributor to the funds of the Labour Party.

This is of course is the same Labour Party who successfully raided the pension funds of millions of working class workers across Scotland and our immediate neighbours.

This would explain the silence upon this subject from “Red” Wendy and her moronic acolytes.

After all, how can they possibly defend an industrial dispute relating to pensions, when they are responsible for the greatest raid upon pension funds in history?
96

Willie,

27/04/2008 14:18:58
Irrespective of the serious issues in this debate it is sad that the media can't get their facts right.
There are more holes in this story than a string vest. Most of it is basically untrue, so why waste any more time on it.
I hope the reporters are not getting large salaries or significant pensions for this fairy story.
Off course like MPs they're different!!
97

Willie,

27/04/2008 14:30:00
96
Understand where you are coming from but Scotland's needs compared with the rest of Europe are miniscule. Petrol on the spot market cant and wont reach £1.50 based on this minor pinprick.
105
Story is rubbish. You can't discharge from Hound Point, no import pipeline!! Hound Point built as Export facility only for North Sea Oil. Astro Acturus is a Crude oil Carrier not a refined oil carrier. So if you can't discharge why do you need workers to unload it. Press Complaints here we come!!!!!
98

Knapdarlich,

27/04/2008 14:36:31
#107/#110 - so what is the story?

Fuel could, of course, be imported via Finnart. Ah - but that's owned and operated by INEOS too isn't it, and the union are refusing to off-load cargoes there too?

Union has made a colossal mistake here. Dig, dig, dig - try as you might your hole will only get deeper.
99

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 27/04/2008 14:36:39
I saw the Politics Scotland programme and was impressed by both Hutton and Salmond who seem to be trying to avoid making a drama out of a crisis and ensure that fuel is going to where it is needed. The problems began a week ago and I think the public began to panic before the politicians had a chance to take control of matters. The oil industry has moved as fast as it could in getting supplies from the continent. I don't think they could have acted much faster.

The governments at Westminster and Holyrood have both acted responsibly as they know the electorate will not look favourably on those who grandstand and make political footballs of the present problem.

I think both Ineos and Unite should agree to have an independent enquiry into the whole background of the BP sale, the employment conditions, the pension arrangements,the upgrade of infrastructure, the running costs and profitability, the pay scales and pensions of competitors and in similar industries.

The president of the Society of Actuaries might be a suitable person to do the review, to report back to the employers and unions to discuss. The employers could hold back on their August deadline until the report is considered. All existing employees, including apprentices, would be eligible for the existing arrangements until a new deal can be struck.
100

westview,

looking at the unions red & white St. George looka 27/04/2008 14:40:41
May I suggest that the picket line lads be supplied with blow up Weird Wendy plastic dolls. Just to amuse them at 4am in the cold dark mornings. I am old enough to remember being on picket line duty through the long dark hours of the night and having to burn bits of wood pallets to keep warm. I am also old enough to have learned that both employers AND unions lie to the workers.
101

Mcavity1uk,

Stirling 27/04/2008 14:40:46
The root cause of all this is the ANNUAL raid on pension schemes introduced by Gordon Brown in his first budget 10 years ago. More should be made of this in the media.
This is why final salary pension schemes are now deemed unviable by employers.
For those who do still have them, however, those who do not currently contribute, like all civil servants, should be made to do so in every case.
102

Sambo,

The deep south 27/04/2008 14:48:58
This crippling of a nation by a few is being watched around the industrial world. It is little wonder that companies would be reluctant to build plants in Scotland.
103

Knapdarlich,

27/04/2008 14:52:34
#115 - including INEOS
104

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 14:54:02
115
Give me a break. What would you suggest then. Ban strikes in case it upsets someone. Workers are not slaves, neither to their companies nor to the nation, and they have the right not to get screwed over, particularly if they have a direct stake in the industry.
105

Geoff,

sa 27/04/2008 15:11:26
Meths-Fcuk!! got the time mixed up! Dont tell me the score-let me suffer till the rebroadcast!
106

Van (not white) Diesel,

27/04/2008 15:24:59
A price hike to £1.50/litre, attributable solely to additional transport costs, is unadulterated piffle. Find me a transport operator (road or sea) who is able to negotiate an EXTRA 30-odd pence PER LITRE freight rate, and I shall be on the blower first thing tomorrow morning to invest all available cash in shares of said operators.
107

Van (not white) Diesel,

27/04/2008 15:32:46
Oops - I have just given the game away!
108

Sambo,

The deep south 27/04/2008 15:43:10
#117 Wee Fifer
The workers are averaging 30,000 pounds a year. They are walking out for the benefits of future hires . If future hires cannot have the foresight to save from a good salary 10% of their income for their retirement then god help them.
Nobody owes anyone a living, so get used to it.
Scotland has had some really smart people in the last hundred years however most had to leave the country to better themselves. I believe it was called "the brain drain".
109

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 15:59:03
121:
I have to disagree. Aren't they worht more if they work in an industry of strategic necessity? Also, the point of a union is solidarity, it's the basic principle that a union should operate on. Why shouldn't they have good terms and conditions? They do the work after all - and look what happens when they don't, thus proving the point adequately that they are worth good terms and conditions. The fact that they still understand that solidarity with future generations is an important principle is also to be commended.
110

INEOS Union Member,

Grangemouth 27/04/2008 16:12:13
As a worker directly involved in this fight, I find it interesting the discussion that is going on on this board, with the full facts not known, it's akin to the prize board on the TV game-show Catchphrase. People are saying what they are seeing, and if the had the full facts then maybe, they may just change their opinion.

The facts are that:

-The pension scheme is being run very well by a board of independent Trustees whose area of expertise is the administration of a well funded pension scheme.

-The scheme is currently in surplus at 120% funding(July 2007 in money terms ~£39 million) with negligible liabilities, even AFTER INEOS' contributions were reduced last year due to the funding surplus.

-The sum of money that the company would save from the contributions from employees is around £1.5 million p.a. not much more, so can it be justifiably be believed that the massive £750 million investment for the Grangemouth site would pivot around sum a small sum of money?

Please believe me SoS readers, this is about much more than business economics or modernising pensions.

If our pension scheme was in a severe state of health we could understand the need for change and not so strongly resist this attack, we are all realistic in our expectations!

We are not asking for anything MORE remember, we are simply defending a well funded and sustainable scheme that does not have to be touched!!

I will leave you with this comment that was recently broadcast on a radio interview with an INEOS spokesman.

When asked by the interviewer about how much money was involved in the dispute i.e. what was it worth in savings to the company if the employees started contributing 6% p.a., the reply was:

"This is not about the money!"

I hope that this honest account of the situation will help you all understand our fight.

Thank you for your continued support.

Regards,

an INEOS Unite Union member
111

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 16:16:17
123:
You have the support of many people, and will have the support of many more as the full facts come to light.
112

,

27/04/2008 16:16:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
113

Lady Muck,

27/04/2008 16:22:47
Well said the Ineos Union member. Sambo you are talking rubbish. It is Ineos who are trying to blackmail the workforce into taking a deal that is worse than the one they have. There is plenty of money in their pension fund this man is trying to raid it by the back door so he can do some more venture capitalising. It is not their fault they work in an oil refinery. They still have rights. We should ALL support them.
114

Robbierunciman,

Romney Marsh 27/04/2008 16:23:44
It would be one thing for the company to wind up the scheme and then RAISE the salary of the workers to make up for the loss of benefit the workers are recieving and for them to fund alternatives - but they are not doing that are they?

The right wing numpties on this site who do the old tory practice of 'blaming the workers' are the sort of people who in Victorian times would have blamed miners who died in gas explosions for the disaster and not the company for not providing a safe working environment.

You do not have to be left wing (an I am not) to see what is going on here, a company that probably pays less tax that it should is trying to duck out of a social committment. Yet, to make money, it relies on a decent well ordered society - which can only happen if taxes are paid and workers recieve honest pension plans. If a union cannot strike to defend the rights or workers and future workers whats the point of democracy - lets roll back a century of progress and do what the right wing contributors to this site want send those children up chimneys again, it might mean lower taxes!

I would be interested in knowing what kind of scheme the directors and senior management of the company have for themselves?

On the conspiracy theory side, remember the rather odd strike a few years ago by 'hauliers and farmers' that resulted in petrol pumps drying up. Is this a mark two version because when the same crowd tried their earlier tactic this year, it failed! I had always thought that the 'hauliers and farmers' who 'organized' the fuel strike in TB's premiership were proxies for larger better connected beasts- are we here again - big business putting the squeeze on democracy and civil society?

115

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 16:27:02
125:
I think you should focus on the real blackmailers here. The workers here have a right to protect their interests. It's as clear as a blue sky. Muddying the waters by accusing them of being responsible for the fate of pensioners is ludicrous, and funny you should use pensioners as a rallying cry, given that's what the strike is all about. That's the Labour government's job anyway, to make pensioners choose between eating and heating, not the humble workers, who incidentally are on the same side as the pensioners (i.e. on the opposite side to the fat industrialists).
116

,

27/04/2008 16:27:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
117

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 16:31:21
126 and 127
Excellent posts.
Yes, the workers do have a right to protect their interests, they are citizens not slaves. Secondly, private companies do not operate in a vacuum, democratic society allows them the privilege of making money - in return for the benefots they get from that, we ask them to play by the rules. This bunch are not playing by the rules.
118

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 27/04/2008 16:33:31
Did anyone see John Swinney on TV at lunchtime? I think he's lost it.
119

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 27/04/2008 16:34:27
128/130

Wee Fifer, you are spot on.
120

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 27/04/2008 16:36:10
From the contributions on this forum, it appears that Thatcherism is alive and well, and flourishing in Salmond's Scotland.
121

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 16:39:56
Thanks Merchant, it's a bit annoying all these right wing posts don't see the context. Business doesn't run democratic society for the sake of business, society allows business to operate for the sake of society. We all need to remember this. If a company needlessly tries to screw its workers the response should not be 'the workers need to roll over' but 'why is this company doing this, and is it still fit to run a strategic industry like this'.
122

NBJT,

North Berwick 27/04/2008 16:52:50
INEOS strikers must be the greediest and most selfish workers ever.

Good luck to the management. Do not let their bullying of the scottish people win.

Have they just woken up from the 70's!!!!!
123

Money Makes The World Go Around,

27/04/2008 17:00:42
It would appear the workers were after a long weekend by starting a strike on a sunday and ending it on a tuesday so the company have hit back by winding down operations on the grounds of safety and the union have allowed a number of strikers to be employed as firefighters on safety grounds....ffs you couldnae make it up.

After trawling through all the pro diatribe posts in favour of the workers and the union reps let's get one thing straight here. THERE IS NO LAW THAT SAYS A COMPANY MUST PROVIDE A NON CONTRIBUTORY PENSION SCHEME TO ITS WORKFORCE.

It has been stated on a number of occasions that all present employees will remain on that pension scheme so the strike is not about them it's about folk who are not even employed yet, again you couldnae make it up.

The obvious solution is for the company to provide future employees with a contributory pension scheme and if the union lackys don't like it then tough shoite.
124

NYScott,

Accross the pond 27/04/2008 17:02:11
How about a 90 day cooling off period with Binding Arbitration - note report of what's said on both sides at this arbitration in the News every day. Who will disagree?
125

westview,

Half way down the stairs 27/04/2008 17:03:53
Just read that INEOS is negotiating to be involved with the new nuclear plants that Brown is pushing for. Wonder what games are being played here behind the scenes?
126

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 17:06:18
137:
And there is 'no law' that says that the workers have to accept whatever unreasonable stuff the company comes up with.
The days of unregulated capitalism are over.
127

Phil C,

27/04/2008 17:07:17
#123 Ineos Union Sheep

You are either very stupid or very blinkered, and I don't believe you're stupid. Tell your union to get lost before you lose your job!

You've been offered a pension that's better than most people are offered. Most have been changed to contributory money purchase schemes, which should be sustainable, if not guaranteed. You seem set on a 'protect my pension' against all common sense route. Even if it is over-funded now it is unaffordable in the long-run. You are causing far too much damage and I haven't seen one valid argument from your union. They seem stuck in a 70's time-warp and all I've seen is a greedy and selfish intransigence which will cause you more hardship in the long-run as your pension scheme falls apart, as it is bound to do in it's current state.

Would you accept pay rises of 1% over National Average Earnings Index (and not a penny more!) for 6 years to cover the proposed 1% per year contribution increases? Has that been offered?

As things stand you have no support here and all you can expect is the backing of some dumb-nut lefties; those who label normal thinking people right-wing. How you can let your union damage your future as they are now is beyond comprehension.
128

Sambo,

The deep south 27/04/2008 17:15:38
In a socialist country such as Scotland I am surprised that the Grangemouth refinery hasn't been nationalized by this time. Then again if it was like the NHS I'm sure there would be even longer lines for petrol.
129

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 17:20:10
141:
I don't think you can just label people who argue for proper regulation of important industries 'dumb-nut lefties'. It's just a question of who runs whom. Do we accept corporate governance now in place of democratic control of society including the economy? I don't think so.
The primary responsibility of workers in this dispute is to themselves, and they are right to stand up to their employers.
130

ThePeter,

Glasgae 27/04/2008 17:20:57
Labour raided the pension pots of all the private companies when they came into power making them unsustainable.
However, this money goes to the likes of councils, BBC, Government etc, so THEY can have final salary schemed (ex BBC employee with £4MILLION pension pot is a disgrace, it's partly MY MONEY)
So do not blame the company - they can not afford it.
Do not blame the Union, they are rightly trying to fight for what they have
Yip it's that man from Fife's fault - step forward Gordon Brown...
A scot screwing Scotland, but then the Scottish Nazis (SNP) are no better.....
131

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 17:22:05
142:
I have to agree Sambo, maybe nationalisation would be a good idea since this company can't manage an important industry like this sensibly. Well said.
132

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 17:24:43
144:
What a monumentally intelligent contribution, good how you slipped in the point about the Scottish Nazis - where do you get that from? You have no idea what the Nazis were about if you can come out with with a stupid comparison like that. Try reading up a bit. I'll pass on the opportunity to defend Brown though.
133

INEOS Union Member,

Falkirk 27/04/2008 17:31:09
129,

I am intrigued by your response and would appreciate it if you could expand on how WE as a union are holding the country to ransom?

All that we have done is to withdraw out labour in protest at the erosion of our pension scheme, which we are perfectly and legally entitled to do.

It is not us as a union who have told people that fuel supplies would run out. Nor was it us as an organisation who designed the infrastructure so that the Forties pipeline was tied into the Power Station owned by INEOS.

Let it be clear, our battle is with INEOS and that company alone.

Furthermore, I would be extremely interested to understand how we cannot win this dispute, and look forward to debating this matter further.

As they say, the truth WILL out!!




134

Stevie. G,

Las Vegas 27/04/2008 17:34:36
Well said # 21, Stand up to the employer,they are making billions ever week,but they are disputing a pension.
It's high bloody time Scotland stood up and fought for it's self (( ONCE AGAIN )) WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO SCOTTISH PRIDE.
135

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 17:47:50
I think we can all see what's coming every time now that someone stands up to big business or tries to legally to defend themselves from wild capitalism - an organized propaganda onslaught. It takes the same form, there is a ready-prepared script that goes something like this: - the workers; the councillor/local community (insert perpetrator as required) is greedy/selfish/crazy/stupid/evil (nsert even a combination) for not lying down and taking it what is obviously a good thing, and is holding 'the nation' to ransom.
136

Sambo,

The deep south 27/04/2008 17:52:24
I am aware that INEOS is a private company. One question, why shall we say for solidarity, doesn't the other refineries around the UK do a stoppage?
137

Phil C,

27/04/2008 17:59:28
#147

You can't win this dispute because, with the 99% climbdown by your employer, you will still have an unsustainable pension scheme in the medium to long-term. You're doomed if you 'win'!

#149 Wee Toerag - Ho Ho Ho. Happy Christmas Dumb-nut!!
138

INEOS Union Member,

Falkirk 27/04/2008 18:03:52
Sambo(150),

We would never ask another Refinery to carry out a stoppage, remember our aim is not to cripple the entire British economy which is what an all out refinery stoppage would do, nor to cripple any economy.

Our aim is to make INEOS realise that they are unnecessarily attacking an area of our T&C's that is not necessary and make them realise how futile this dispute really is.

I would ask you in return, do you believe that that approach would be beneficial to the fight and increase the public support for our cause and likelihood of our success?I personally don't believe it would.

Regards,

INEOS Union worker
139

indune1,

Canada 27/04/2008 18:06:26

Potential investors in Scotland must have pursed lips.
140

johnwg711,

London 27/04/2008 18:07:56
Why O Why did they not class the power/steam supplies to the Forties pipeline as an "emergency" requirement. There could be a great deal of difficulty in re-starting the pipeline and that will lead to far more chaos.
And what are the management of Ineos doing to keep the essentials running?
141

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 18:09:31
151:
Your argument doesn't make sense, and the dumb nut thing doesn't bother either. An insult in place of an argument means you've conceded the argument.
150:
A logical possibility, if it was the company that was striking.
142

Sambo,

The deep south 27/04/2008 18:21:27
#152
Thank you for your response, although I disagree with what you are doing and think that in the long run it will be detrimental both for the country and you're present pension scheme.
I worked on the Clyde and saw the unions destroy the industry.
They had their purpose earlier in the Industrial Revolution to fight against the exploitation of the worker. Today as workers conditions and pay are much better strike action defeats it's intended purpose. When this starts to erode the general public's quality of life, you will find that they are not in you're corner.
143

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/04/2008 18:43:19
152, Ineos Union Member.

Sorry, pal, I disagree with you totally and also with all your brothers who seem to have an inflated sense of your worth.

Surely your correct log-in name should be Unite Union Member?

If you cannot even get that right then why should I believe anything you say? All I care about (and it aint you) is whether I can get petrol to go and pick up my son next week and how much the petrol is going to cost.

144

Ed's everywhere,

Europe 27/04/2008 18:55:09
How many oil crises does it take? The business suited 'owners' of our oil interests will always try to squeeze3 more from us as workers and as consumers. Whether they are suited in Westminster or in their glass-fronted tower offices, the same is true, they want more power and they use our labour and our money to horde it. While in most of Europe we always seek a balance between savage capitalism and overpowering unionism, there's has never really been proper union representation in scotland's oil and gas industries. Now perhaps is the beginning of real negotiation between the workers and the players. Resolution must be reached.
I still ask, can you begin to develop lifestyles without cars in your cities?
There will be more oil crises and there will be higher prices for real essentials, like wheat and rice.
145

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 18:58:29
Jock Tamson 157:
Exactly who has an inflated sense of self-worth here? First of all, if you don't care about him (152) or his brothers then why should he care about you collecting your son and how much your petrol costs? Because that is what is being asked of him implicitly by your message - to ignore his own self-interest in favour of yours, and for what in return?
146

,

27/04/2008 19:03:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
147

Sambo,

The deep south 27/04/2008 19:04:32
Striking refinery workers are not rocket scientists, they could be replaced. The union has to inform the company of any further strike action after seven days.
What happens if the strikers extend the walkout if INEOS does not comply with their demand?
148

,

27/04/2008 19:18:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
149

Mick Jagger,

Grangemouth Scotland 27/04/2008 19:18:45
Scotland’s toxic town ... has anyone looked at the Cancer rates of this town or local areas to this site.

Keep the plant shut and get our bikes out, do us a all a favour and our FUTURE children and grand children .. never mind your silly pensions ..

Gordon Brown do the Environmental a favour eh !!! This is 2008 and we are ment to be Environment friendly ...

The black cloud that looms over Boness and Grangemouth has lifted for the first time in fifty years today ..

Mick

150

Boggle fey the Bog,

27/04/2008 19:18:57
I don't know if any one else picked up on the comment in the article, that the Government would lose £20 million a day in tax revenue if the 'pipeline' closed, well the pipeline supplies 30% of UK oil needs, so the UK Gov makes £36.5 Billion per annum on Tax from German Ocean (North Sea to the non knowers) Oil, Scotland gets £30 billion under Barnett, and I've not even added in Taxation, NI, CT and Crown Estates revenue.

So we are subsidised are we?
No the subsidy junkies are all below the Solway-Coldstream Line

One word Rowlocks, Time we got out of this corrupt, illegal Onion.
151

Boggle fey the Bog,

27/04/2008 19:30:19
160 Ciderman 542000,Forres 27/04/2008 19:03:35

No!
If he has any sense, and I believe he has, he would take a leaf out of the Tories* book and Nationalise the Oil and Energy producing sites in an independent Scotland.

He could then 'invite' the former owners to bid for the 'franchise' to extract, transport, process and deliver the goods in a usable form, and at a 'socially responsible price'.

*(History 101:- Sir Winston Spencer Churchill, when 1st Sea Lord, 'nationalised several small British oil companies, to create British Petroleum [BP], this was to safegaurd fuel supplies for the Royal Navy, whose new ships were mostly oil fired)
152

,

27/04/2008 19:33:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
153

SeriouslyAmused,

Ayr 27/04/2008 19:42:21
This report is nonsense. The Astro Arcturus is a crude oil tanker with crude oil and has nothing to do with "supplying to forecourts". Will the newspaper correct this please!

How the rest of the story was extrapolated from this I have no idea. Presumably it was fed in whole to the reporters who simply repeated it?

154

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/04/2008 19:43:58
159, Wee Fifer, take it any way you want it. He doesn't care about me, so why should I care about him?

I care about my family and do not come out with spin to cover up my journey for a hidden reason.
155

,

27/04/2008 19:46:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
156

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/04/2008 19:48:54
167, Waspy 100. I see my son once a month and he lives in another town.

I will pick him up any way I want to as long as it is legal. And anyway, how can I pick him up when I'm working?

If you want to support the strike then do so but do not make side swipes in a direct opposition of self-interest between me and that striker.

157

Money Makes The World Go Around,

27/04/2008 19:55:39
*140 Wee Fifer,you are typing shoite sonny....Tell me what is unreasonable about the company choosing not to have a "non contributory" pension scheme for any future employees?

I did mention that the company should offer a contributory scheme for new employees which is what most other workers have available to them.
158

Money Makes The World Go Around,

27/04/2008 19:59:22
*160 That would be a good idea to build another refinery but at what cost? I notice the pipeline is not too far away from Aberdeen,perhaps they would welcome the jobs up there if it were to be built?
159

,

27/04/2008 19:59:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
160

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/04/2008 20:00:31
And another thing Waspy, as long as those strikers still have jobs I'll be driving my car. I'll probably be driving my car when the oil runs out and they are out of work.

You see, personal transport can be run on other fuels. When the oil runs out they will be redundant.

My heart bleeds - not.
161

Jambo-ree,

27/04/2008 20:02:58
#160 Ciderman - "The whole SNP bid for independence is predicated upon the control of Scotland's oil reserves and the rewards that emanate from that control."

As indeed is the Unite strike. But tell me this - what reserves? How long will they last for now? The game's a bogey for independence floated on North Sea oil I'm afraid.

And as for the Ineos workers striking for the benefit of colleagues to come - if 20-year-old starts next week it will be 40+ years before he can start to draw his gold plated pension. The oil, and the refinery, will have gone long before then so tell me agian why it's SO important to preserve pension rights for potential recruits?
162

,

27/04/2008 20:03:35
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
163

Mick Jagger,

Grangemouth Scotland UK 27/04/2008 20:13:37
post 177 Ciderman ..

Golf Resort ...

How Silly Was That ...

You Never Know Maybe Trumpet Would Have Had Pipline Into His Golf Resort By Now If He Had His Way .. and he could have supplied fuel to Scotland for free ...

The black cloud that looms over Boness and Grangemouth has lifted for the first time in fifty years today ..

Mick




164

The Strategist,

27/04/2008 20:17:14
Strange... We were motor racing at Knockhill all weekend... Nobody claimed to have run into problems getting fuel..

Great day by the way... weather was fantastic... results very satisfying..
165

,

27/04/2008 20:17:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
166

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/04/2008 20:20:13
Ciderman 180
Well said.
How many of the right wingers on here are sudden appearances paid for by the company like Trump's bloggers did, posing as concerned citizens and insulting everyone?
167

Jambo-ree,

27/04/2008 20:28:05
#180 - Scarcely short changed with salaries and pension the CURRENT workforve are on. The issue is about people who not even work at the plant and who might in the future. The answer is simple - if they don't like the terms then don't apply.

Don't get me wrong - I do not like venture capitalists but am long enough in the tooth to know that if you took all Scotland's wealth and redistributed it evenly then in a few years time we would be back to having millionaires and the impoverished with all levels in between. If people like Ratcliffe were not successful at what they do then many of us would have jobs?

Now, having answered your points, perhaps you'd be good enough to answer mine?

#181 - Just for the record I never have and never will vote Tory.
168

,

27/04/2008 20:32:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
169

,

27/04/2008 20:36:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
170

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/04/2008 20:36:44
Does anyone know the names of the Unite instigators? You know, these guys who stir it all up with dodgy spin.
171

,

27/04/2008 20:38:29
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
172

Jambo-ree,

27/04/2008 20:39:05
#185 - I know what I call them.....
173

Jambo-ree,

27/04/2008 20:40:34
#186 - OK I'll rise to the bait and say it - "right up the workers" (well those particular ones anyway seeing as how I'm working class my self).
174

Scotish Exile,

27/04/2008 20:44:50
Where's a politician like Thetcher when you need one....she would sort these guys out. Who de have...calamity broon...nuff said.
#182, you are correct, these are pension rights for future employees, I wish I didn't have to contribute to my pension scheme, but I have to give 5% of my salary each and evry month, and I don't have any sort of guarantee to what I will get when the time comes for me to retire, I could get very well get less than what I paid in...oh to have the luxury of a non contriburaty pension scheme, these guys are not living in the real world
175

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 27/04/2008 20:48:51
Oh listen, I hear the Unite song,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABy_06p4bFI
176

,

27/04/2008 20:49:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
177

,

27/04/2008 20:50:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
178

Bravetart,

27/04/2008 20:51:11
Why it is almost like Gordon Brown allowed this to happen to ensure Scotland was reminded who is in charge and that they are not happy the (teeny) majority kicked them out of power. Well that will show us won't it. Conspiracy theories I have 'em.

McCavity Brown, I understand the nickname now.
179

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 27/04/2008 20:52:15
CONSERVATIVE peer and Tory fund-raiser Lord Irvine Laidlaw has confessed to being a secret sex addict and has announced plans to donate £1m to an addiction charity.

Just thought i'd add this. See what the rich get up to while they sack the plebes and fk about with their pensions...
180

Ciderman 542000,,

Forres 27/04/2008 20:52:31
#191

and historical fields.

The pre-Columbian theory holds that syphilis symptoms are described by Hippocrates in Classical Greece in its venereal/tertiary form. There are other suspected syphilis findings for pre-contact Europe, including at a 13–14th century Augustinian friary in the northeastern English port of Kingston upon Hull


181

Ciderman 542000,,

Forres 27/04/2008 20:53:53
Erec tile dysfunction (ED) or impotence as it is often called, affects men of all ages. There was a time when treatments were few and success of treatment was rare. That was before the ED drug everyone has heard of. That was before "the little blue pill." That was before Viagra
182

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 27/04/2008 20:54:04
Seriously though. We should nationalise our oil industry. Let the huge profits pay for good schools, hospitals and public transport.

Just like Norway does.

But then again, a wee nation like Norway could never be independent. They're obviously just racist against the Danes. Those small-minded Norse...
183

Thistledhu,

Fife 27/04/2008 20:54:19
From what i know of grangemouth most workers are in there for there profesional life to get a job there it is very much filling dead mans shoes.
so basicly the whole of the uk is being held to ransome faceing economic ruin over additonal add on benifit package for a handfull of employees who as of yet do not exist.

This is justifiable?

Beggars beleif!!!!!
184

Calum Crubag,

Dùn Eideann 27/04/2008 20:55:21
Ciderman - you saying yon Tory sex addict has syphillis?
185

Ciderman 542000,,

Forres 27/04/2008 20:55:23
Viagra (sildenafil) belongs to a group of medicines that delay the enzymes called phosphodiesterase from working too quickly. By controlling phosphodiesterase, sildenafil helps to maintain an erection that is produced when the penis is physically stimulated. We have all heard of the popularity of Viagra. In fact, men of all ages are finding a new found sexual youth because of the little blue pill. But like any prescription medication, Viagra is not without its pitfalls and problems however.
186

Ciderman 542000,,

Forres 27/04/2008 20:57:23
#200 Calum

Yes i am and he caught this terrible terrible disease of me when we both had intercourse
187

,

27/04/2008 20:59:37
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
188

taylormade,

Longniddry 27/04/2008 22:11:46
I hope the local petrol stations in Grangemouth put up signs "Unite not welcome here" - no doubt these workers are making sure they still get fuel.

Is there a lawyer out there who can tell us if the small businesses who will suffer or go bust if fuel shortages occur or even the oil giants can sue Unite or the Grangemouth workers for loss of business.

Is it not a terrorist act to hold a county to ransom to satify your own greed ?

189

,

27/04/2008 22:13:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
190

Boggle fey the Bog,

27/04/2008 22:16:34
166 Ciderman 542000,Forres 27/04/2008 19:33:26 & again at
170 Ciderman 542000,Forres 27/04/2008 19:46:29

On your first response, of course the UK gov 'only make money on German Ocean oil by taxing it', so why presume that in an Independent Scotland, the Scottish Government wouldn't tax this resource.
Of course they would and make no secret of it.

Westminster hijacking of Scottish oil revenues, has been one of the underlying triggers for the current march towards Independence.
The fact that Scotland would be the third richest country in Europe if it had full control over it's oil revenues, has now been proven beyond a 'shadow of doubt'.

We are not the alleged 'basket case' that the Onionists would have you believe we are.

On your second response:- This makes no apparent sense.

The UK gov have control of oil in Scotland, not Jim Radcliffe, although he is IMHO, not a nice person, the problem is that spineless weasel who masquerades as a Prime Minister, hasn't got the bottle to tell Radcliffe to honour his agreement or be Nationalised, without compensation.

In an independent Scotland energy resources would come under the direct control of the Scottish government, whereas at the moment it is under the 'Direct Control' of the Westminster Government.
191

,

27/04/2008 22:30:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
192

Pilrig.,

Livingston 27/04/2008 22:34:21
142 - yeahh, at last somebody's hit the bullseye - nationalise the f***in'place !

BTW the Crotty fellow bears a sinister resemblance to David "Daffy" Duff.
193

Pilrig.,

Livignston 27/04/2008 22:37:39
200 the super rich tory has the "John Knox" ? surely he could afford a condom ?
194

theleftwing,

27/04/2008 23:30:00
i always thought that a quality publication such as the scotsman/sos would only ever report the facts.
the reporter could then give his/her slant on the issue depending on their political leanings as they saw fit.

but to write a complete fabrication on this issue is deplorable.

you should leave this fictional rubbish to the sunday people, news of the world. etc...

hang your heads in shame!!!!
195

A Voice From Scotland,

27/04/2008 23:57:55
This forum is now haunted by the saddest bunch of dumb fuks on planet earth, go and get a life you inbred dog chuggers and motherfukers.
196

Trade-wind,

USA 28/04/2008 04:55:04
#1 well this is what I'd expect. Crying! yes crying!
If they beat the union out there and take away a pension that was hard won by others back when. You will be next!!! Cry about a little sacrifice you have to make
to support these workers. This is not about them they won't get anything out of it. This is for new hires. Maybe your son or daughter or grandchild will get that job. You have yours so pis* on the next generation is that your view. Here in the states they have beaten the union up and found the chink in the armor. Our unions are not strong anymore and it shows. People are living less well. If you do not back every union effort to hold the line on take aways, Scots will be poorer in ten years. You think this hurts you? Wait until you make less money because you have to pay for the things once provided through a union contract. It is happening here every day. They have been taking away pensions and health insurance. Cutting wages is only the start, they done that thirty years ago, and then it was insurance and now it is pensions here as well. Our unions are not strong and you can't get anyone to stand with our union members any more. It shows to because the tide of change was so outright and obvious that companies now think nothing of taking away some benifit that was contracted for years ago. Wages increases were foregone
years ago by our fathers and grandfathers to get these benifits. Now they are wiped away. Yours will be to if you don't stand united behind others who are fighting to keep the future secure and your wages and benifits at levels that will let you live a decent life.
If for some reason you think this doesn't pertain to you then you are sorely mistaken. You will no doubt scoff at this explaination, as, by the sound of your writing you apparently think asking to retain a pension for future workers is going to far. I tell you quite clearly that these men are right to resist the company taking away anything. If you do not help them by supp
197

Pilrig.,

Livingston 28/04/2008 06:19:41
213 - "well, ye know yersel"
198

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 28/04/2008 09:32:42
#53 Change the record would you. Your repetitive rantings are just boring.
199

HughB,

Edinburgh 28/04/2008 10:27:42
The headline should be "Grangemouth Strike threatens London 2012 Olympics Budget", or "Grangemouth Strike threatens London Cross Link Project", or any of the other big projects that they are using our money for.
200

geekpie,

forfar 28/04/2008 15:59:27
I'm pretty indifferent to motorists running out, but I hope buses and trains can get all the fuel they need.
201

Ineos worker,

Falkirk 28/04/2008 16:48:59
Must have been a slow news day.
Your story is made up, as several people have pointed out.

Please start reporting news and stop trying to scare people that know nothing of the Industry. As for our pension being all about the new people. The chages were taken off the table for EIGHT WEEKS ONLY. Not of the table for good.

There is tankers on route with fuel and will be unloaded buy the 'gready worker' when the arrive.
The massive fuel sortage was another made up story.
The crude units could be up and running in 4 days, with fuel out. Only units that will take weeks are the ones that make Ineos the £1 Mill a day profit.
As for the 20% hike in gas price. If you think it was the north sea shuting down your are thicker than the reporter who made the above story up.
Get real everybody, look into things before you comment, especialy the reporters (put a bit of work into your stories, or did Ineos give you cash to put this out?).
202

bluehead,

edinburgh 29/04/2008 10:57:37
all these people who are condemming the workers for
defending their pensions are a sorry lot.
the workers should be supported in this fight for what is their's.,it is not only this useless goverment that is sinking in to the bog but many of the people too.
this country is past it's 'sell by date,it is owned by so many foreigners,that the name britain will soon be removed from the map
203

dunnoony,

02/05/2008 10:51:57
your newspaper article got the prices for Germany wrong. unlike in Britain, diesel is cheaper than petrol there and both stand at current: petrol: £1.14, diesel: £1.10.

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 


Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.