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Glenrothes aftermath: So where stands the project?

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Published Date: 08 November 2008
DEEP in the recesses of SNP headquarters in Edinburgh, party strategists have a private but well-structured grid setting out the vital steps on the road to independence. The targets are clear: secure power at Holyrood; win by-elections; establish credibility in government; gather support for independence; push referendum bill through parliament; win referendum.
Until this week, the plan was an undeniable success. But for the first time, that apparently seamless progression has been interrupted. A black mark has appeared on the grid.

Labour's victory in the Glenrothes by-election has halted the SNP's electoral march through Scotland and raised questions about the party's ability to deliver its ultimate goal of Scottish independence.

Critics, inside and outside the party, have started asking, if the Nationalists cannot win over the voters of Glenrothes, what chance do they have of convincing those same people to back the big question of independence?

The Glenrothes result was unexpected and the way the election developed, particularly late on, was extremely unusual.

An hour-and-a-half after the polls closed on Thursday night, a divide appeared between the bright lights of the television cameras on the balcony and the ballot counters, smart and uniform in black polo shirts, flicking through voting papers in the sports hall below.

TV commentators told viewers the SNP was on course to win, but in the background the piles of papers marked for Labour's Lindsay Roy were stacking up.

Word started to spread around the hall that Labour might just win. Rumours of a 1,000 majority circulated, then 2,000, then 5,000, but no-one even suggested such a comprehensive margin as a majority of nearly 7,000.

By the time Mr Roy arrived, shortly after midnight, the SNP had already conceded defeat.

Mr Roy and his wife, Irene, were greeted with raucous cheers from Labour activists while SNP tacticians huddled in a corner over a laptop, some in tears, some just looking grey, tired and defeated.

Their fight was over. That much was clear when Peter Grant, the SNP candidate, arrived soon after Mr Roy to silence. No-one from the Nationalist camp had the energy or the will to cheer him in.

One SNP insider argued that the Nationalists believed about 13,500 votes would be enough to win the contest. The party got 13,209, not far off this target, but it was good enough only for a distant second place.

The Labour total of 19,946 was far more than the SNP expected Labour to get – and far more than Labour expected Labour to get.

"These were voters who came from under the radar. Neither party expected them to vote, or in such numbers," one SNP analyst said.

So the simple political truth is that while Labour and the SNP both got their voters out, the Labour vote was harder, stronger and more solid than that of the Nationalists.

Labour also benefited from the collapse of Tory and Liberal Democrat support – both parties lost their deposits.

Peter Lynch, a senior lecturer in politics at Stirling University, said: "This has left the SNP's plans up in the air. The Glenrothes result was a real wake-up call, but it might do them some good.

"Alex Salmond might have to stop looking so arrogant and he might have to be more responsive to the party, and they might have to focus on the fact that they are now in local government, presiding over a whole series of public spending cuts."

Mr Lynch said many factors would influence the progression towards an independence referendum in 2010, not least the next general election, but the SNP would have been "knocked back" by the Glenrothes result.

But what were the reasons behind Labour's success?

Mr Salmond was adamant yesterday that independence had nothing to do with his party's defeat, nor did he share the widely held view that Gordon Brown's revival as an economic statesman was instrumental.

He said: "Any by-election can further accelerate or slow up the cause of independence, but the cause of independence will be progressed nonetheless.

"We will move on to the next argument, the next political debate, and progress that cause."

Instead, the SNP leader blamed Labour's decision to campaign long and hard on the decision by SNP-led Fife Council to introduce income-based charges for home care.

Mr Salmond said this was the real reason for Labour's advance and he took full blame for the SNP's failure to counter it.

"The failure is of the campaign leadership, which is me, effectively, for not recognising we should have changed to face down a scaremongering campaign," Mr Salmond said.

"That's my fault for not having my finger on the political temperature in the constituency."

Mr Salmond was right, but only in part. Labour did run a focused, local, negative campaign against Fife Council, exploiting the Nationalists' decision to make the council leader their candidate for the by-election. But there were other factors.

It may be an unpalatable political reality for the First Minister, but, by coming to the constituency to campaign, Mr Brown turned Glenrothes into a straight fight between the UK Prime Minister and the Scottish First Minister – and the Prime Minister emerged victorious.

That is not something Mr Salmond would like to admit, nor was he willing yesterday to acknowledge a "Brown bounce".

Labour ran an oppositionist campaign, attacking the SNP at local and Scottish level, forcing the Nationalists for the first time to defend their record in office.

Labour also had a Prime Minister who was local and willing to risk his political reputation by campaigning in the constituency. This helped, as well as his burgeoning image as an economic statesman.

While the people of Glenrothes were swayed by home care charges, by loyalty to their Prime Minister and by a sense of unity in the face of economic turbulence, their decision to back Labour will have a knock-on effect on the cause of independence, whether Mr Salmond likes it or not.

As for the First Minister himself, he insisted yesterday Glenrothes was merely a "setback".

He declared: "While it's certainly true that we had virtually untrammelled political success for 18 months, nothing in politics or life continues in that vein forever.

"The job of confronting a setback is to learn lessons, to overcome it and come back stronger. That's what we intend to do."

Everyone involved in Scottish politics knew the point would come when life suddenly became tough for the Scottish Government, but no-one knew when it would happen. As of 12:45am yesterday, that was no longer a mystery.

What happens now, though, depends on the SNP and how it reacts to this defeat. The party's future, and probably Scotland's too, rests on its response.

He shoulders blame and pledges to 'learn lessons'

ALEX Salmond yesterday took personal responsibility for the SNP's defeat in the by-election, insisting that he was to blame for the unsuccessful direction and strategy of his party's campaign.

Labour won the contest convincingly in the early hours of yesterday morning, retaining the seat with a majority of more than 6,700 over the Nationalists.

SNP managers had been confident of victory right up until the close of polls on Thursday night and the scale of their defeat left many in the party confused as to where they had gone wrong.

But Mr Salmond made it clear yesterday that he believed Labour had won because it had developed a local, "negative" campaign and the SNP had not been quick enough in responding to it.

He added: "Our mistake in my view, and it's a mistake I take responsibility for as leader, was that we should have recognised the threat … and moved to a rapid rebuttal strategy earlier in the campaign."

Despite having visited the area a dozen times in the course of the campaign, Mr Salmond said he wished he had spent more time on the doorsteps to gauge grassroots feeling.

A central feature of Labour candidate Lindsay Roy's campaign had been concerns over an increase in local home-care charges from £4 a month to £11 an hour.

Nationalist candidate Peter Grant is the current leader of Fife Council, which introduced the new charges.

The First Minister had predicted as recently as last weekend that the Nationalists would capture the seat but admitted yesterday he had spoken prematurely.

"I was wrong about the by-election," Mr Salmond said. "We're disappointed with the result. However, we're not disappointed with the campaign we fought. A campaign fought by Labour was a scaremongering and negative campaign but was successful.

"There are lessons to be learned and we will learn them, but Peter Grant and the SNP will be back to beat that sort of campaign in Glenrothes and in other contests across the country."

The issue of home-care charges was not a central concern of voters a month ago, according to Mr Salmond, who said it emerged as a priority in the minds of the public only late on in the campaign.

Gordon Brown took a very different view of the by-election, claiming the win was a vote of confidence for the UK government's response to economic turmoil.

"What I have learned from this by-election is that people are prepared to support governments that will help people through the downturn and offer real help to people," the Prime Minister said.

"They are less willing to support people who have no idea about how to solve the problems we have got."

Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary, described the win as a "very strong personal endorsement" of Mr Brown.

Although Labour's majority was down one-third on its 10,660 margin in 2005, Roy increased the party's share of the vote.

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1

Rasco,

08/11/2008 00:09:11
Mr Roy attacked the charges for care going from £4 a month to £11 per hour but no one asked him about Glasgow Labour Council charging £16.50 per hour I believe it is any answers please.
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 00:14:24


NO POINT THE TEARS NOW!

I told you all this would happen as soon as the SNP started to attack our young,,'OF-COURSE' Salmond lost Soo many Votes.

Cant purchase 'Alcohol' unless your over 21, crazy or what?

Cant show the 'Fags' (cigarettes) in Shops, crazy or what?

Well! Our Young are NOT Crazy, their "votes" proved that, and they will NEVER vote SNP, ever again!

3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 00:21:39

I mean to Say!

You tell an 18year old, that they can "VOTE" for the "SNP" at the same time, You tell them they cannot puchase a,...'Can Of Larger'!

DO THINK WE ALL CAME FROM, 'CLOUD CUCKOO LAND' or something?


4

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 08/11/2008 00:29:02
Labour increased their vote at Glenrothes. And the SNP increased their vote. So Labour has a bounce and the SNP are the beneficiaries of a 5% swing from - not the 2005 election but the election last year. So, since last year, the SNP have increased their vote in Glenrothes by 5%

Deep in the recesses of Scotsman and Labour headquarters... well, we know the rest.

5

,

08/11/2008 00:29:33
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6

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 08/11/2008 00:35:02
I remain convinced that Labour, Iain Gray and his cronies, are not the party who deserve to be running our country. I would like to see Lindsay Roy come into his own as an MP and not be just another Labour clone. Time will tell.
7

,

08/11/2008 00:35:44
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8

Castaway™ ,

08/11/2008 00:38:11
Glenrothes aftermath:So where stands the project?
Latest opinion poll (Oct) from TNS System Three.
TNS Polls: Using the same format as the SNP is proposing to put in a referendum which is to ask the Scots whether they agree or disagree that the administration should "negotiate a settlement with the government of the United Kingdom so that Scotland becomes an independent state".
Oct 2008:agree 35%:not agree 43%:DK 22%
Jun 2008:agree 39%:not agree 41%:DK 21%
Mar 2008:agree 41%:not agree 40%:DK 19%
Nov 2007:agree 40%:not agree 44%:DK 16%
Aug 2007:agree 35%:not agree 50%:DK 15%
Avg-agree 38%:not agree 43.5%:DK 18.5%
DK=Don't know, who have shown a steady increase.
9

Marky Bhoy,

Dont Tread On Me 08/11/2008 00:42:15

Sam

Not Dead yet and as long as God gives me life I will oppose your corrupt British state
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 00:46:48

Marky ~5,

"DON'T TREAD ON ME"

WELL! That's what the SNP have done to all the 18-30year old voters!

Be Married with a good Job and Mortgage, be a parent, who's Wife just had another Baby,


BUT DON'T! Try to,..'WET THE BABY'S HEAD' to Celebrate!

WHY?

Cause you Voted SNP!

YEP! You would have to be,...'Stark Raving Bonkers' If you did!

And REMEMER THIS! The 18-30year Olds are active Voters, and there are Thousands of them, even in Glenrothes!

LOST THE VOTE?, 'OF-COURSE' THEY LOST THE VOTE!

They will 'Loose' all Votes Now!



11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 00:52:33


Come in the front door, like a,..'Bull in a China Shop'

You will be, out the back door, before you can say, 'SNP'!
12

Edward,

08/11/2008 01:13:43
#10 Charles Linskaill
Think youve lost the plot!
You actually believe that the 18 to 30 year old voters of Glenrothes rejected the SNP due to the Scottish Government trying to do something to tackle binge drinking? Get a grip!
The SNP failed to win the Glenrothes By Election purely on Labour churning out a negative campaign which targeted specific local issues, being care for th elderly and education and twisting facts around to suite. Such as Fife council increasing rates for care, but ignoring the fact that less people would be liable for the charges and ignoring the facts that Labour led councils were actually increasing rates to a higher level than Fife!. Or how about the argument by Labour that money for education was being cut in Fife, despite the fact that the budget for Labour's Lindsay Roy own School, which he was Rector of had actually INCREASED! The press were more than happy to comply with Labour in reporting the Labour stories, but less eager to actually question Labour. What about those visits by Gordon Brown and his PR wife Sarah Brown to Glenrothes. The media filed to actually tell the truth regarding these visits, instead happy to portray Saha Brown going round meeting 'ordinary' Fifers, except the only ones she met wee strongly vetted to ensure good photo oportunity and that they were staunch Labour supporters already! As for Gordon Brown, dd he ever leave the confines of the Labour activists Cafe, nex door to Labour campaign offices - not really!
The ad nauseam reporting continues today, with the BBC's Nick Robnson stating that Gordon Brown was a 'born and bred' Fifer!. Give me a break, Gordon Brown was born in Glasgow to a Minister and his wife, who moved to Fife to take up a parish. The young Gordon Brown would have been lucky if he actually mixed it with the ordinary working class miners kids.
Sadly in the UK and especially in Scotland we are saddled with a very compliant media who are, at best very lazy when it comes to proper journalism.
13

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 01:20:51


Edward ~12,

I have NOT as you say, "lost the plot" or why would I of said the SNP are finished, well over a year ago?

Reason is I am 101% Correct in what I say!

Facts are, I said they would loose, and they did!

And forget your excuses, fact of the matter IS!, the SNP attacked the very-ones, that 'Feed Them' FULL-STOP!

14

antp,

UK 08/11/2008 01:21:03
#5
i've heard thar aspirin mixed with tennents extra does the trick, if u are under 21 then i recommend buying a washing line from the pound shop and finding a high tree. if you need anymore tips please ask on here
15

mesmiths,

fife 08/11/2008 01:21:29
So it's all doom and gloom for us lot- the honeymoon is over- we've got nae chance etc etc..... Yeah right, I, for one, remain confident of achieving independence and remain confident in Scotland, despite Labour and the medias' conserted attempts to put the frighteners on. Yes we can! Labour, on the other hand, had, in football terms, a good night but they're still on for relegation.
16

scottishrepublic07,

aberdeen 08/11/2008 01:24:44
"These were voters who came from under the radar. Neither party expected them to vote, or in such numbers," one SNP analyst said."

5000 voters slipping under the radar. aye right.
17

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 01:24:53
#12 Edward, good post. I am still waiting for any of the unionists on here, crowing about their glorious victory, to outline all the positive and excellent policies that New Liebour have created and implemented that have made the union a haven of prosperity and equality that everyone wants to preserve.
18

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 01:26:00


http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/latestnews/New-legal-threat-to-SNP39s.4560404.jp
19

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 01:29:57


http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/Supermarkets39-border-raid-on-SNP.4233967.jp
20

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 01:37:09
#13 Charles, Charles, Charles you are talking about things that are obviously beyond your ability to comprehend, it's "or why would I HAVE said" NOT "why would I OF said the SNP are finished, well over a year ago?"

"Reason is I am 101% Correct in what I say!"

Are you an American? What is 101%? is that the rate of inflation under Gudrun Broon?

"Facts are, I said they would loose, and they did!"

For gawd's sake, the word is LOSE, LOSE, not LOOSE, there is something loose in your heid, probably a screw.

And forget your excuses, fact of the matter IS!, the SNP attacked the very-ones, that 'Feed Them' FULL-STOP!

Far more likely that the votes that slipped in under the radar were fake postal votes arranged by our good Gudrun to save his own miserable neck for a few more months. No SNP people have mooted this idea as they don't wish to appear anything less than magnanimous in defeat, but they must be thinking it as every indication was that the result was going to be too close to call.



21

Sipeki,

Alva 08/11/2008 01:38:07
Reply to number 6.

So you believe that Labour are the best party to run this country. Do you mean run this country further into the ground.
Well they had been running the country for the last 50 years.

Look at the results that Labour rule has brought Scotland.

Where there was once industry there is now waste lands.

Where there was once prude Scots, are now mere shadow of their forefathers.

Labour wants to take you vote, and keep you down. Its that simple.
22

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 01:42:31

Nails in the Coffin, for SNP post, before this result,



http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/SNP--rebellion-over-under21s.4583399.jp
23

Edward,

08/11/2008 01:45:20
So what were Lindsay Roy's aims for helping the Glenrothes constituents in Westminster?
Does anyone know?
According to Labour's own website it was to tackle anti social behaviour and improve the Buses and roads in and around Glenrothes. I agree worth while objectives, but not exacty something for Westminster, after all Policing and the fight aganst crime, such as anti social behavior is devolved. So is transport and roads, they are also devolved matters. Curious that Linsay Roy should make it his main aims, especially as the current state of Anti Social Behaviour, Roads and buses are a result of the previous Labour administraion in Holyrood. I will be kind and say that he wasnt aware of that. Rather that say they pickd grass roots easy to talk about topics, which , once elected can be easily disgarded!
Maybe Linsay Roy will fight the pensioners corner, when in Westminster? After all he CAN debate about that, he CAN press for increases. Somehow though I doubt it. You only have to listen to the winner of the By election, he is already towing the party line and idolising Gordon Brown. Not so much as Rock the boat, more like Rock to sleep!
24

,

08/11/2008 01:48:33
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25

Sipeki,

Clackmannanshire 08/11/2008 01:52:20
Reply 10:

So its more important to you that people can abuse alcohol rather a better future for the people of Scotland.

I do not see 40 years old in my local park drunk on mass, what I do see is 18 years old and under.

These 18-20 years are also so "responsible" that they are buying alcohol for under 18 years old.

Its all about beating the habit of alcohol abuse.

Retailers were asked to help, by stopping cheap alcohol promotion. They did nothing.

Something has to be done.

So you do not want restrictions on the age of buying alcohol.

So how do you suggest Scotland tackles alcohol abuse amongst its young?
26

,

08/11/2008 01:59:37
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27

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 02:03:20




'Excuse Merchants'

The Facts are, out there, as I have said, time and time again!

THEY LOST!, I TOLD YOU WHY THEY WOULD LOOSE!

I did Not see any of you, giving an opinion, before the results,...

WHY?

NO EXCUSES NOW! IT IS FAR TOO LATE!

I WAS CORRECT, YOU WERE WRONG!

WHY?

Because I KNOW BETTER,.. 'FULL-STOP'!

BLACK IS BLACK, WHITE IS WHITE, AND CHARLES WAS RIGHT!!

Is that to difficult to understand?

28

,

08/11/2008 02:09:58
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,

08/11/2008 02:15:57
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30

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 08/11/2008 02:17:08
"I would rather lose in a cause that will some day win, than win in a cause that will some day lose." Woodrow Wilson
31

,

08/11/2008 02:20:24
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Andrew Allan,

08/11/2008 02:24:42
#2., Charles Linskaill.
I was in an English shop the other day, and they have this rule that you have to have ID for buying booze or fags if you look under thirty. Now what I ask is are we now too good ffor such rulings here?
33

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 02:26:16


The 18-30year old voters!

One will never win political votes, if you start dicaiting to them, how to use 'Toilet Paper'!
34

,

08/11/2008 02:30:05
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35

W Smith,

Middle East 08/11/2008 02:38:15
The Scotsman on Gordon Brown:

"This helped, as well as his burgeoning image as an economic statesman".

PASS THE SICK BUCKET!

The English voters are going to give Brown a kicking for squandering 4 trillion pounds then going to the rich arab Gulf states for money.

The same rich arab nations that believe in saving their cash, not squandering their money, and invetsing for their future through their svoereign funds.

Oh the irony.
36

Andrew Allan,

08/11/2008 02:41:59
Imagine you are an increasingly unpopular government who are desperate to find some sort of turning point to make some kind of fight back before a general election. Now imagine you have a by-election in a very safe seat. It is very unlikely you are going to win any extra votes in that seat or increase your standing generally in the polls in the country as a whole. What can you do to con the nation into making you look better than you are? What about making it look as if your opponents will sweep to victory, suggest there is a betting scam to make that win look likely to be bigger than it should be, and add to it to make it look so. Then when the result comes in, that very safe seat which had seemed to not look so safe ends up as a win for the government it looks like some kind of win for the governments argument, even though the majority is reduced and would normally look as if the government is losing ground.
37

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 02:45:16


Bachman-Turner 34,

I Remember very well, my younger years, being married with Children, Job, Mortgage, etc.

I was in the age group mentioned at this time, and voting was MORE Important to me then, than it is now,

Point being! "Salmond" Got it WRONG!

He Built his 'policies' To WIN VOTES against, the 'ned's of our society, forgetting NOT ALL 18-30year old's are NOT NED'S!

BIG, BIG, MISTAKE!

HOW CAN A POLITICAL LEADER, CLASS A FEW THAT CAUSE TROUBLE, THAT ALL WILL CAUSE TROUBLE, In this 'Age Group'?

MISTAKE!!,,BIG, BIG, MISTAKE! That Now, Will be his Downfall!!
38

,

08/11/2008 02:45:43
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39

,

08/11/2008 02:51:35
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40

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 02:51:52


The 18-30year olds make a CD a Number,1 'HIT'!

Difficult to do these days!

Likewise, a 'Political Leader' NEEDS our Young Votes to get to 'Number,1' (or 10 Downing Street)

'Cutting your Throat, to Spite your Face' Is a very bad idea!

As Proven!

41

Royc,

London 08/11/2008 02:53:14
One reason the SNP lost was the two-party squeeze: Lib Dem and Tory voters were told 'it's a two-horse race, you can't win here', so they switched their votes to their 2nd preference (this is the under-the-radar crowd). As the former are federalists and the latter favour a unitary state, it stands to reason that their votes didn't go to the SNP.

A second reason is that Scotland's ability to stand alone has been seriously undermined by the performance of HBOS and RBS. If this is the best two of the leading institutions north of the border (if not Scottish-owned really) can do, Gawd help us.

The third reason is that Salmond is increasingly looking something of an opportunist with his endless off-the-wall political initiatives and spin, he's coming to resemble a Blair/Mandelson/Alistair Campbell figure with his desire to be on the stage.

Nationalism is a philosophy driven principally by emotion and long may we Scots have great pride in ourselves and our nation. But it can also be a narrow, parochial, bigoted and stultifying thing, driven by cliques who want to have power above all else.

Glenrothes restores some equilibrum to the seesaw and now there needs to be a serious debate not about Brown and Labour or oor oil or how we could be like Iceland, but about the core issue: what would Scotland gain from independence that would not as readily be achieved, with considerably lower economic risk, through a sensible federal structure.



42

,

08/11/2008 03:02:53
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43

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 03:02:58

Royc ~41,

Understandable as you say,...

...Point being, 'Salmond' lost a, 'key Generation' of votes, that would of, Won Him this election, if he had NOT attacked our younger Voters.

44

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 03:08:29


In other words!

DON'T BITE-OFF THE ARM, THAT FEEDS YOU!


45

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 03:16:32


YOU CAN VOTE FOR US, THE 'SNP', WE WANT YOUR VOTES!

BUT IF YOU DO!, WE HAVE LEGISLATION'S AGAINST YOU!

Now tell me this?

Unless you were an Idiot or Fool, would you vote for that?

46

,

08/11/2008 03:17:42
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47

,

08/11/2008 03:19:38
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48

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 03:33:43

Bachman re: ~46/47,

In all seriousness, I think that 'Salmond' made BIG, BIG mistakes with his, 'Polices of Grandeur', to win "votes" in His own, 'Age Group'

But we live in the Real World!, our younger generation, are our future!

If we dismiss this, like Salmond does, others that respect our young, go on to Win Political Elections!

Point being,...
.."Salmond's" attack and Stereotyping our !8-30year olds, lost him this election,..'FULL-STOP'!

49

,

08/11/2008 03:36:16
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50

,

08/11/2008 03:39:43
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51

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 03:43:11

Bachman ~49,

Yeah 72years old?

Agree!

Gotta Go!, Look at the time!

Nice the chatting with you, but for now, cu ya L8R.

Going to dreamland, but I wont be Dreaming about Salmond :D

52

coira,

08/11/2008 03:43:25
GHANDY PEACEFULLY WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE COUNTRY HAD VICTORY UPON THE IMPERIALISTS BRITISH .
ALL EMPIRES DROWN . HITLER , BRITAIN , ISRAEL ZIONISTS,NAPOLEON , OTTOMAN ,SPANISH , ROMAN .SOVIET ,
AMERICAN .THEY ARE ALL WRONG WITH THEIR SUPPORTER COUNTRIES , THEY ALL AFFECT THE WELL BEING AND PEACEFULL LIFES OF THE SUBMITTED . BECAUSE THE HUMAN BEING IS CREATED WITH DIFFERNCES IN ETNIAS AND THE SAME ETNIA TOGETHER DO FEEL COMFORT . THE RESPECT OF OTHER ETNIAS , IS INTO A SOCIAL WAY OF LIVING ,WITHOUT IMPOSITIONS . THERE ARE TWO WAYS OF SCOTLAND TO ACHEIVE SOCIAL , ETNICAL AND SCOTISH NATIONALS ,WELLBEING :
1. THE CREATION OF A BRITISH SOCIALIST MONARCHY .
IT MEANS TWO BRITISH KINGS , AND ANGLO/SAXON . AND A SCOTTISH -CELTIC. WITH A BRITISH PARLIAMENT COMPOSED OF EQUAL SEATS FOR THE ANGLO/SAXON KING AND FOR THE CELTIC KING. SO THE LAWS ARE MADE EQUAL INTO A SOCIAL GROUND.AND THE INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNITY OF OTHER COUNTRIES SHALL BE RESPECTED AS WELL . ERRADICATION OF ALL FORMS OF IMPERIALISM.
2. SCOTLAND TO BE FREE, INDEPENDENT AND SOVEREIGN WITH ITS SCOTISH KING , AND ANTI-IMPERIALIST , GIVEN THE EXPERIENCE OF THE COSEQUENCES OF BEING UNDER THE MONSTER DOMINATION , FOR SURE SOTISH WILL SUPPORT THAT EVERY EXISTING COUNTRY SHALL BE FREE ,INDEPENDENT AND SOVEREIGN . DEFENDING .THE SOVEREIGN RIGHT OF EACH ONE.
YOU CAN HAVE A CAR , OR ANY OTHER MATERIAL THINGS , BUT YOUR SOUL UNHAPPY , AND BECAUSE YOU ARE BEING DOMINATED SO LONG , FOR YOU COMMONLY LIVED THAT WAY , NOT KNOWING THE REAL SENSE AND HAPPINESS IN LIFE , YOU THINK WHAT YOU ARE LIVING IS REAL HAPPINESS , WHEN ITS REALLY NOT AT ALL, BUT IF NOT KNOWING IT . NEVER TRY TO ACHEIVE IT.
SALEEM COIRA STORY BAILLIE. VICTORY.
53

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08/11/2008 03:56:19
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Dood,

08/11/2008 04:09:13
#52

Prior to you vanishing (quicker the better please), would you mind taking your CAPS LOCK off. As if your drivel was hard enough to make sense of anyway, it's giving me a headache.
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08/11/2008 04:15:06
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Corrennie,

08/11/2008 04:41:12
'Where stands the project'??

Tricky question.

1) WHAT project?

2) How do you fill a dustbin with hot air?


Still, that's put Wee Eck's gas on the peep.
57

Phil C,

08/11/2008 04:41:33
Far too much is being made of the 'surprise' Labour victory in a rock-solid Labour seat. This is the whipping up of a small story by the unionist media, who are trying to maximise the gains for a party that has been a disaster in government. I'm afraid the people of Glenrothes have made clowns of themselves by voting for a bunch of incompetent no-hopers who have brought our country to the brink of social and economic melt-down.

Yes the result is disappointing for those who want to make Scotland and Britain a better place, but Labour's win is no big deal. The SNP have been far more successful over the last two years and nobody should lose heart over the Glenrothes blip. This result will soon be forgotten.

The gradual persuasion and good government that we have seen from Holyrood must continue and an increasing number of people will see the light. There's still hope for us all!
58

coira,

08/11/2008 04:45:18
BROWN IS A MCAIN , A BUSH , A HITLER , AN IMPERIALIST BLIND MATERIALIST .

THE ONLY WAY SCOTISH HAVE NOW IS THE SNP.
SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNITY WILL GIVE YOU YOUR NATIONAL SCOTTISH PASSPORT . TODAY YOUR SCOTISH PASSPORT IS BRITISH , MEANING THAT YOU ARE PART OF THE ABUSES,AND HUMAN IGNORANT BEHAVIOUR OF THE WRONGDOERS IMPERIALISTS IN THEIR DOMINATION EFFORTS TO OTHERS , YOU ARE PART OF THE CRIMES COMMITED IN PALESTINE . IRAQ , AFGHANISTAN , SAME SCOTLAND , COMMITED BY THE BRITISH IMPERIALISM , DRAWNING ECONOMY.CRIMES AND MASSACRES ARE BACK FEEDED BY THE SIMPLE LAW OF JUSTICE , EXISTENCE AND LIFE.

THE INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNITY OF SCOTLAND IS NECESARY FOR THE GOOD OF SCOTTISH.

THOUGH THE DAY ENGLAND BECOMES ANTI- IMPERIALIST , THE ENGLISH PEOPLE WILL KNOW THE REAL TASTE OF WELL LIVING AND WILL COOPERATE WITH THE SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE SOLUTION OF THE WORLD POVERTY , EDUATION , INDEPENDENCES AND SOVEREIGNITIES.
THE MASSIVE DELINQUENT ACTIVITY AMONG ENGLISH IS THE HAPPINESS KNOWN .

THE HORRIBLE EXAMPLE , THE ROYAL FAMILY GIVES IS UNDESIRABLE , AN EXAMPLE OF SICKNESS AND DIVORCES , AND TRAGEDIES , PRODUCT OF THE SAME ANTI-HUMAN ACTIONS OF THE IMPARIALIST DOMINATION, RATHER THAN HELPING OTHER IN THEIR FREEDOM , INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNITY .
BUT FROM THE REAL JUSTICE NO ONE GETS OUT , THE REAL FACTS , SOON OR LATER AND BEYOND ANY GROUP DESICION , WILL PREVAIL AND ITS FEEDBACK DONE.

SALEEM COIRA STORY BAILIIE
SOCIALIST UNION OF INDEPENDENT AND SOVEREIGN MONARCHIES.
59

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 04:53:16
Highly amusing series of posts by Charles Turner-Overdrive, backing himself to the hilt, fawning over the dear leader Kim Jong Broon. The post at number 38 was particularly hilarious/nauseating because, as I posted on another thread:- Gordon Broon Pants is a chinless, spineless yellow belly traitor who hasn't the wit or guts to act decisively on any matter, even ones where he is supposed to be adept, such as his claim to be an expert and experienced economist. Aye, that he is, expert at making mistakes and experienced at ignoring warnings and taking the wrong course. Great to have him as the leader of our union....NOT!

Showing concern for the young people of our country does not mean indulging every whim they might have. Caring for them should include legislating to try and reduce the high levels of alcohol abuse wrecking the fabric of society. The proposed legislation only covers off-licence sales of alcohol so those drinkers over 18 and under twenty can still go "doon the pub" for a swally, but in that case it will be more difficult for them to give drink to underagers or to get as blootered as they could with a carry out, at least that's the theory and it has been tested and appears to reduce trouble, so why are you against it? Oh, aye, that's right, the SNP introduced it so it must be rubbished and got rid of. The dumbing down and destruction of Scottish society must continue to keep the nation down in the gutter. Well, we might be in the gutter, (to quote Wilde), but some of us are looking at the stars.
60

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 04:57:21
Is Coira on drugs? Is she in a facility for the insane or is she a unionist plant trying to make the SNP appear bad. My bet is the third one. Coira, if you actually do like the SNP, PLEASE STOP POSTING YOUR DRIVEL!!
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08/11/2008 05:00:16
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coira,

08/11/2008 05:30:47
#60.
any country or political party that needs to appear good to the imperialists , is acting accordingly to them . THE SNP IS THE NATIONALIST PARTY SEEKING INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNITY TO SCOTLAND .ONCE SCOTLAND IS INDEPENDENT AND SOVEREIGN. THE SCOTISH PEOPLES WILL DECIDE FOR A MONARCHY , A SOCIALIST MONARCHY , A PM GOVERMENT OR WHATSOEVER . OR A SOCIALIST GOVERMENT , ALSO THE POSIBILTY OF A INDEPENDENT AND SOVEREIGN IMPERIALIST ASOCIATE TO USA BRITAIN GERMANY, OR ISRAEL ZIONISTS, WRONDOERS.CRIMINALS.
ALL THE POSIBILITIES ARE.
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coira,

08/11/2008 05:37:33
# 60 YOU THINK YOUR POSTS ARE THE RIGHT ONES .
THE ONLY WAY TO STOP ME IS , A TRIP TO THE HERE AFTER. HEAVEN. SO READ WHAT YOU WANT TO READ.

I READ A LOT OF GARBAGE AND ITS THEIR RIGHT OF EXPRESION , THANK YOU FOR DEMONSTRATING YOUR INABILITY AND UNHAPPY THING YOU EXPRESS . YOU POOR IMPERIALIST.

SALEEM COIRA STORY BAILLIE .
PS. I AM A MAN . SOCIALIST UNION OF INDEPENDNET AND SOVEREIGN MONARCNIES.
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Ninian Reid,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 06:00:13
And so, Glenrothes remains in the Stalinist grip of Gordon Brown, the one-eyed monster from down the road.God help those who made it happen. You have severely damaged the aspirations of the Scottish people.
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08/11/2008 06:06:51
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Lesley McDade,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 06:09:52
ADR = still awaiting a response from the First Minister concerning the ADR debate or rather played to the audience drivel that occurred on 2 November 2007. George Foulkes MSP was the most intelligent discussing the football results the night before.

Dealing with the issues Mr Salmond First Minister is more likely to get results at least on a fair basis as opposed to the sticky wicket you all sort of deserved!

www.lesleymcdade.blogspot.com - Can you tell me, Mr Kenny Macaskill, Justice Secretary why there is no Judge with Executive powers in the Cabinet at the moment, secondly who is the most senior judge on the UK bench, and thirdly why I perceive that academia are doing some intellectual espionage aka Lindsay Farmer (dissertation), Michael Ford, Matthew Weate, Nicola Lacey (dissertation) via Geoffrey Robertson QC, Julian Critchlow, Nicholas Carnell, Ian Insley, David Harrell, Keith Wood (second case Respondents) and their current solicitor Alison Parker are likewise up to something presumably via Insurers linked to their Counsel Tim Pullen aka Geoffrey Robertson QC chambers and Richard Susskind, IT Adviser to the Lord Chief Justice and Anne Molyneux, etc and his link to Lord Woolf (dissertation) and then Lord Straw is Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary and now Justice Secretary - but what happened to the Lord Chancellor and his Executive powers - constitutional issue! Are judges NOT independent of the political arena - all of them - I have been in the courts 13 years: bizarrely I cannot get a police officer to deal with the issues. Something is clearly wrong, it clearly is not me, but why are you all so fearful and smart thinking concerning ADR in society and my line of very correct thought that it be removed from the judiciary and the legal profession as early as possible. Why do you NEED ADR : it undermines the rule of law; creates a two tier society one tier is hidden and over privatised: what has changed, who has change managed, why the need for a "reg
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08/11/2008 06:12:25
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Lesley McDade,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 06:12:41
Why do you NEED ADR : it undermines the rule of law; creates a two tier society one tier is hidden and over privatised: what has changed, who has change managed, why the need for a "regime" and new landscape which is contemporary, modern, liberalised, alternative, called Demokratisation or Nazi perhaps - No 35 Airport bus could just be an extended tour bus route from the Reichstag! I might as well use my right to freedom of thought and expression now ...
69

Media 1,

cape town 08/11/2008 06:15:03
The SNP are the most short sighted and utterly disrespectful movement I have had the misfortune of encountering in some time -
Governing is what they are being paid to do, yet instead of doing that they are spending money, time and energy on a move to independence without first consulting the people - It would be easy to respect the SNP if they ran Scotland for the good of the people within the context of the union until such times as a referendum was possible - that way they would be doing their best for Scotland within the current system until hearing the voice of the people regarding independence - then following the referendum they could either push forward for independence or back off depending on what the people want.

but here is the thing, like most rogue freedom fighters the SNP would not probably accept a no vote to independence - they would more than likely still press on for independence even if the majority didnt want it -

Dont give up on Scotland by voting SNP - Dont sell out on Scotland by voting Salmond
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08/11/2008 06:20:55
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Lesley McDade,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 06:23:08
Image I will most fondly be remembered by "Justicia"

"Mustn't sleep tonight" - cat having a nightmare

Caught some Alan Parsons, Bon Jovi and Whitesnake at bedtime.

Will just pop some Roger Waters, James Bond Movie themes and Anastasia or Buble on the deck

What do you reckon - An all time High or the World is not enough! The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking Part 10 or Every Strangers Eyes! Cowboys and Kisses or Welcome to my Truth! Feeling Good or Save the Last Dance for Me!
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Rothiemurchus 55,

USA 08/11/2008 06:28:06
A well known SNP member was taken South and tied to the back of 2 horses and dragged from Westminster to Smithfield to the Elms, where he was hoisted up on the gallows and hung til -near death- then he had his privates removed and burnt in front of him, then they removed his lungs,liver and lastly his heart to show to the adoring crowd...His head was then lopped off, followed by being quartered and 4 parts dispatched to Berwick,Perth,Stirling,and Aberdeen, his head displayed on London Bridge, as a spectacle for local enjoyment....This was Anglish Justice for the SNP @1305
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08/11/2008 06:35:48
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GrahamH,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 06:55:40
Salmond better hope he doesn't have a by-election in Edinburgh. 7 out of 16 neighbours and myself voted for SNP, switching from other parties as said would stop the trams if he got in. He got in, he could have stopped the trams (overruling other parties vote)but didn't have the guts to and wanted the investment money. Be a huge swing from SNP here next time around.
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08/11/2008 06:58:33
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08/11/2008 06:59:45
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08/11/2008 07:41:11
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Keyboard supporter,

08/11/2008 07:42:12
Salmond can bleat all he likes but Labour won due to the impending recession and the bail out of the banking sector which lets being honest if we were independent we'd be looking at an Iceland style meltdown - boom boom I'm here all week.

Labour shouldn't get too up its own rear end as although Brown has many faults, he at least has a modicum of integrity and vision unlike the new vanguard personified by the likes Jim Murphy MP. The latter is so slimy and sanctimonious i swear he must leave a trail
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Media 1,

cape town 08/11/2008 07:43:27
Rothiemurchas

Your post sums up the SNP mindset - you are all living in a modern Scotland but your minds and your politics are trapped in the year 1305.
None of you actually want this "freedom" you speak about because it will be better for Scotland. You want it because in your eyes England is the enemy and we cannot be involved in any partnership with them.

You watch Braveheart and shed a tear as the haunting music plays on your emotion - you swallow the small lump in your throat and feel a strong sense of belonging. You would die for Scotland you tell yourself, you would kill to protect Scotland you tell yourself - how dare these barstrds treat our women and our people like this you say, all the time forgetting that you are merely filling yourself up with nostalgic national pride about a 700 year old conflict you still believe exists.
It is such thinking that will destroy Scotland. The freedom fighters at the SNP are not fighting for freedom, they are fighting for control - and that my friend is a whole other agenda!
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08/11/2008 07:50:20
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Andrew Allan,

08/11/2008 07:53:11
Coira, it’s not bad enough that your grammar is poor, but I guess that isn’t that important, and that goes for your spelling too, but you call for a kind of free thinking from a position that is not of a free thinking one, and ask for natural justice and claim all sorts of crimes that have been made as bad as they are by religious intolerance feeding religious intolerance, if there was indeed natural justice one or other of these religious groups of morons would indeed be able to prove their true without the aid of violence wouldn’t they?
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08/11/2008 07:55:56
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 07:59:21
BTO Welcome back.

You have been sorely missed.
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08/11/2008 08:03:05
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Phil C,

08/11/2008 08:05:17
#79 Meeja

It's clear you don't have the foggiest idea what the SNP are about. You've been droning the same tune for a long time- and what rubbish it is! The SNP stand for a prosperous future for Scotland (and Britain).

It's your choice if you don't go along with that, but why do the likes of you, BTO and all the other self-imposed 'Protectors' of the UK have to talk such drivel to make your point? You are merely a collection of backward-looking, noisy and self-obsessed characters on the road to nowhere. Keep up the good work, but let those of us who care about the future have our dreams and aspirations, without your childish attempts to belittle.
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izzie,

dundee 08/11/2008 08:07:55
What a load of drivel. The SNP have a plethora of talented politicians don't you remember how Nicola Sturgon dissected Jack McConnell at FMQ's . Scotland can rest assured SNP will learn from this.
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 08:09:34
Photo Caption;

"I may be no Barack Obama but I am a pretty good Oliver Hardy".
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Andrew Allan,

08/11/2008 08:10:47
#79.,Media 1.
Typical media 1 I think, your argument is not just crude but infantile too, the fact the union happened over three hundred years ago doesn’t mean our minds are totally focused in the past, regardless of historical truth or fiction. It is in the future we focus our energy for an independent Scotland, but you know the reason it is said it is important to teach the people their history, to stop them making the same mistakes others have made in the past.
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08/11/2008 08:11:05
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08/11/2008 08:13:55
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 08:14:07
Photo Caption;

"I would like to announce that I am now available for Panto. Nobody has more experience than me".
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 08:18:24
Photo Caption;

"Any plumbers in the audience? It looks like I have a Busted Flush."
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Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 08:18:47
It was such a noisy day in Scotland yesterday. I do declare the deafening sound of deflating egos and people coming back down to Earth with an almighty bump was enough to gave me quite a headache. LOL. So much for the New Dawn. The numpties of Fife have shown that a red dog and its voters are not easily parted.
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08/11/2008 08:23:52
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Andrew Allan,

08/11/2008 08:25:57
Draco, the only egos I see on show are those who think they have got away with conning the people of this country into believing there was a real chance they were in danger of losing that by-election, so they could look like they were making a champion's come back.
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Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 08/11/2008 08:25:59
What defeat? Labour held on to their seat with a reduced majority and the SNP made a further advance. That's all that needs to be said.

Can anyone tell me what the outpourings of nonsense above are all about? Has some kind of mass hysteria broken out?

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John Cameron,

St Andrews 08/11/2008 08:29:11
Recent events in Scotland remind me of the fiascos of 1940. Winston Churchill's insane campaign in Norway wrecked Neville Chamberlain and catapulted the Anglo-American adventurer into power. Similarly, the toxic waste produced by Gordon Brown's disastrous career as finance and prime minister poisoned the Silly Salmond Delusion of Scotland joining the mythical "arc of prosperity". This could be the Great Gord's historical legacy.
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08/11/2008 08:30:22
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08/11/2008 08:31:12
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08/11/2008 08:32:44
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it has always been allan,

08/11/2008 08:33:04
So now Gordon can call a general election with confidence.

We have been forced to listen to his posturings as the world leader who can get us out of the recession, but who was at the financial helm for 10 years before the banks broke.

His grinning face on the media is a powerful purgative.

And the Scots Nat's are an irrelevance.
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08/11/2008 08:33:20
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Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 08:34:21
#96 Andrew Allan

That has to be one of the most risible Nat comments I've ever seen! So Labour just pretended to be the underdogs so that the victory they knew was coming looked even more spectacular? Nasty Labour! Maybe they used hypnosis on Eck to make him come out with all his blowhard predictions?

A pox on both their houses, Labour and the Nats. Socialists and Tartan Socialists, both fighting over the bone of who pays the best benefits. Meanwhile, no-one mentions R&D, turning out world-class scientists and engineers from our universities who actually want to STAY in Scotland, encouraging indigenous businesses that EXPORT.
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08/11/2008 08:34:22
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08/11/2008 08:34:28
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08/11/2008 08:35:31
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 08:38:52
Photo Caption;

"I would like to introduce the audience to the invisible person on my left. . . . My wife Moira".

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Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 08:39:23
#98 John Cameron

The only legacy that buffoon Brown will leave for both Scotlan and the UK as a whole is decades worth of debt. The country has been thrown back to the levels of debt after WW2. It took us 60 years to pay that off and at least there was a good reason for amassing it. This time, he's put us in hock up to our oxters just to keep him in power.
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08/11/2008 08:42:31
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08/11/2008 08:44:37
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TWC,

Ayrshire 08/11/2008 08:46:10
The biggest losers are the people of Scotland who depend on the media for facts to make their decisions.

The SNP will BOUNCE back but what about the rest of us.
Is the only vote to be Labour or Independence?

That is what the Press offer. There is no point in buying a paper.
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08/11/2008 08:46:20
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Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 08:49:20
#112 Bachman

What is this obsession with Mrs Salmond? It's very worying. So the lady isn't paraded at every opportunity, so what? Maybe she's got a life for herself. Better that than the hypocrite Broon. 'I won't use my family as political tools'. Aye, right. So that wasn't Mrs Broon chapping doors in a desperate effort to save her man's a*se?
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08/11/2008 08:49:39
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ROXY ROOLS,

08/11/2008 08:50:15
Think can we can disregard loads of these posts made in the middle of the night by idiots with nothing better to do. Apologies to those on different time zones. Look at what has had happened to Scottish banks. How on earth could Scotland manage on her own?
I am proud to be Scottish, and that is what I say when asked my nationality. It doesn not mean to say I want to be separate from the rest of the UK. You can be patriotic without being independent.
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bluehead,

edinburgh 08/11/2008 08:50:34
there are bound to be minor set backs from one horse towns like Glenrothes,perhaps the folk thought that
john smith was still in charge
it is a small insignificant set back,and the SNP must keep working hard to release us from brown and his mob.
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08/11/2008 08:50:54
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Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 08:51:28
#113 TWC

Exactly. Talk about being between the devil and the deep blue sea in this country. Lord save us, we're doomed to mediocrity and dependency.
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Rob,

08/11/2008 08:53:49
Media 1. #79. A very good summation. The Bravehearts didn't actually know the first thing about it until Hollywood decided it could make a few bucks on a wholly inaccurate tale complete with the long lost wifey. Cor blimey, as they would say south of the border. Let's hope we get a blockbuster on Culloden before the ire subsides.

The last 24 hours have shown the SNP in their true colours. Additionally, they seem to think the Scots are stupid - they're not and resent the contempt that's poured on them by their would be masters, the SNP. I'm sure many that voted for Labour disliked them as much as the rest of us, but when the only other choice was Alex's Ego and deliverance for the wholly vile Sturgeon, then they did the only thing they could. Lesser of two evils? You bet.

The problem for the SNP when the referendum comes is that it's first past the post on one issue - there's no tactical voting, there's no other looney parties (clearly, I'm giving the SNP some largesse on that definition)and it's winner take all bar the usual "it wasna fair" and "it was the wrong time etc". (Indeed, we should have a competition in these blogs now on the sound bytes to be used when the SNP lose the vote - it will be very entertaining!

Tories, Labour and Liberals alike will form a bucket for the no vote. They may find that such a package is effective in more than just stopping the ludicrous SNP bigots - which might even bring back true conscensus to Scottish politics.
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stug55,

kinglassie 08/11/2008 09:03:15
the sheeple have spoken,i spoke to someone in the village who had just voted,and he said "ma dad voted liebour so a"ll hae tae vote liebour", and when you tell them that within 5 years mcdougall had raped them of almost 1MILLION POUNDS in expenses,no wonder thell do almost anything to stay in power.
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08/11/2008 09:05:57
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TWC,

Ayrshire 08/11/2008 09:08:08
Remember the Press may help Labour stay in power here but that means Mr Roy can Vote on Education and health down in England.
See the power of the Scottish press they can force Englishmen to pay for their Universities and prescriptions.
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08/11/2008 09:14:20
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Angleland Isover,

08/11/2008 09:33:26
The truth will out. Its just some people take longer to see it.
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blackley,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 09:38:53
The Project? Up the Swanny River where it belongs. Alex Salmond hopes to count on voter apathy to sneak through independence but it when there are real issues at stake people come to their senses.
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TWC,

Ayrshire 08/11/2008 09:41:32
127 blackley,Edinburgh 08/11/2008.
I'm ok with that but does the press bias not worry you??
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TWC,

Ayrshire 08/11/2008 09:52:23
129 happy english,Kent 08/11/2008 09:46:34
You generalise sir, there are some but similarly some other posters are terrible.
the problem we have is -- there's nowt so "strange" as folk --All sides
(the proper word from this saying is non PC apparently)
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salmondella,

UK 08/11/2008 09:53:15
Thanks to all the contributions to this story this morning, some of the posts about Salmond have been very funny as well as having a ring of truth about them. Whatever you think of Brown, in the run up to election day he made Salmond out to look like a hapless and hopeless figure of a leader. ( Which in fact he is) Even his staunchest admirers like Ma Broon are starting to question his competence and his inate grinning arrogance. This really is the end of the independence project and there is no way back now for the NATS.
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mr angry,

ayrshire 08/11/2008 09:54:38
It is debatable if this craaphole of a country will ever have the gumption to stand on its own two feet. Certainly not when we have people like the thick Fifers who are stupid enough to believe labour on the fact that a few people are being charged for a service only because they can afford it/ Certainly not when we have craap newspapers that are lapdogs for the union , or brain dead morons like charles Linkmissing. A serious cull of the deadbeats would be needed to allow the half sensible people to go forward. As per the past most sensible people will leave, unfortunately our best people and only those that make their fortune and have a misty eyed view of what Scotland was like come back.
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The Tin Man,

08/11/2008 09:56:31
Is the Scotsman deliberately running a '5 tips to a flat stomach' advertisment under a picture of Salmond?

More Unionist media bias.
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mr angry,

ayrshire 08/11/2008 09:57:06
127. You are a perfect example of the lapdog, happy to be subsidised and looked after, totally unable to make a decision or stand on your own two feet, what a cretin.
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Angleland Isover,

08/11/2008 09:57:39
#129. Come on surely living in england you come across people like that all the time.
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McMillar,

Fife 08/11/2008 09:58:54
#132 You are clearly a tw1t with an ‘a’. You a candidate by any chance? No, probably over qualified in that you have half a brain...
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mr angry,

08/11/2008 10:00:38
131. Have you had too much buckfast and mouth running away with itself. You have no idea what is going on you thickhead. Stick to picking up your Giro. The smile on your ugly mug may change soon when you are forced to look for a job by your wonderful Labour party, see how smug you are then , buckfast rationed and having to get out of your bed before noon to go for an interview. Better practice how to write your name.
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Wee Fred,

08/11/2008 10:02:04
Its a terrible thing this democracy isn't it.


Maybe we should all follow the example of Marky Bhoy and die. (#5)


Or maybe he should just "go home" to somewhere else. ;-)
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mr angry,

ayrshire 08/11/2008 10:02:08
McThicko, is that the best you can do, did you get your little sister to write that for you.
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Ewan M,

08/11/2008 10:07:06
Why are we still talking about the SNP seems they are yesterday's news.

People are starting to realise the Salmond and the SNP have more SMARM than SUBSTANCE. His arrogance and ego are his undoing.
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U. Lukenatmepal?,

08/11/2008 10:07:19
I've spared my eyeballs the agony of reading all 140-odd posts above. Did anyone mention Peter Mandelson? I can see his fingerprints all over this 'shock' result.
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mr angry,

ayrshire 08/11/2008 10:12:14
141. Another dumpling gives us the wisdom of his intellect, stick to the comics.
140

mr angry,

ayrshire 08/11/2008 10:12:51
142. And probably his signature on the postal votes.
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Wee Fred,

08/11/2008 10:15:07
Its time for the SNP to bestow more 'freebies' which we cant afford upon us.


Free drink for the 18-21 year olds.

Free fags for everyone

Free sex for the ugly people

Free double buggies for the single mums

Free lottery tickets for everybody.




We will show them pesky unionists how to get votes, sorry I meant run a country.
142

John S,

08/11/2008 10:15:49
After Glenrothes ?
1.A Labour MP will still represent Glenrothes.
2.The SNP and independence will not go away likewise Gordon Brown who has never put his leadership to the UK electorate via a general election will still be the PM.
3.The Labour Party will still be in power because in the 2005 general election which Labour had Tony Blair as their leader they received 36.91% of the total votes cast, which gave them the 66 seat majority (55.2%) in Parliament.
4.Iaq still no WMD's found and 176 UK service personnel have been killed-Oct,2008.
5.Afghanistan still not safe enough to install the oil pipeline and 122 UK service personnel have been killed-Nov 6,2008
143

Angleland Isover,

08/11/2008 10:16:30
Dodgy Deeds.
144

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/11/2008 10:18:02
As an independence supporter I am delighted to see the excitement from the Labour supporters about this shock win.

Well done you managed to hold a seat you have been holding for 58 years in your stronghold of fife. So you are not as phucked as you thought. You are teminally ill but not dead. Success??

If this is what the Labour supporters consider a success no wonder we have so little success in Scotland under labour. They do not know the differnece between success and avoiding total failure.

The independence movement was in Scotland long before the labour party ever invented itself. We are growing stronger by the year. I know it and you know it. All we have now is to watch you sink into the dirt. In the mean time your lot have to cling to the Gravy train as long as possible.

Glenrothes is a typical labour stronghold, the fact they edge closer to loosing it year after year is crowned a massive victory by the muppets and puppets of the press.

It is good to fight a battle with people who do not know they are loosing.




145

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 08/11/2008 10:19:56
5# Marky Bhoy.

In order to help you achieve a painless end to your sad tormented life, I am prepared to send you a compilation video of Tranmere Rovers greatest games, but only on condition that your mum does,nt send it back after your demise.
146

Attaboy,

London 08/11/2008 10:20:58
I thought Scottish Education was supposed to be the best in the world. Looking at the quality and standard of the spelling and grammar in these posts - especially from those supporting the SNP - belies this fact. What does it all mean I say?
147

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/11/2008 10:21:13
#145 Macbeathian ? Read the mans history not what a an English playwright wrote about him several hundred years later.

There's nothing mandelson about MacBeath the King of Scots.
148

McMillar,

Fife 08/11/2008 10:24:37
#142 Mr Twatty, you are a beacon demonstrating how the people of Glenrothes got it 100% right this time round. I’ll bet you are independent. That usually means no friends and no ability to make friends. Let’s not go down that route as a country and show that we can actually get along with people without just being angry at the small things.
149

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/11/2008 10:25:14
152 Attaboy -I thought Scottish Education was supposed to be the best in the world. Looking at the quality and standard of the spelling and grammar in these posts - especially from those supporting the SNP - belies this fact. What does it all mean I say?

Answer - It means the Private School eductaion system is possibly the best but the state schools under the policies of the unionist parties have left a clear mark on our educational acheivement for the worse.

Hence the support of the SNP and independence. We have been getting shafted for quite long enough now, I say.
150

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/11/2008 10:28:42
#154 McMillar

You state we should continue in a union with England to show how we can get along with people.

The rest of the world does not see England through the same perspective. For about 1000 years the English have been waging wars all over the place in the name of peace, security and defence. They are a troublesome lot, always having to be fighting someone or they turn on themselves. They have never known peace, we have justed hoped for it.
151

Wee Fred,

08/11/2008 10:29:19
Meanwhile the good burghers of Glenrothes return to the pubs and the bookies and wonder what all the fuss was about.
152

Boab,

Glasgow 08/11/2008 10:30:59
A 5% swing to the SNP in Labour's 3rd safest seat and suddenly it's 'Is this the end for independence?' A couple of weeks ago, people were asking whether this by-election would be the end of Gordon Brown.

Today the English newspapers have gone back to covering the ongoing economic disaster he caused.
153

Wee Fred,

08/11/2008 10:31:58
"The rest of the world does not see England through the same perspective. For about 1000 years the English have been waging wars all over the place in the name of peace, security and defence."


The British to be precise.


As have The Belgians, The French, The Portuguese, The Dutch, The Spanish, The Romans etc etc etc


Independence from those nasty colonialist Europeans and the "arc of invading"


Thats what we need.
154

The Scotchman,

08/11/2008 10:36:13
# 155 "I thought Scottish Education was supposed to be the best in the world."

You'd better ask apparent school headteacher Lindsay Roy then.

By the looks of things... the bairns no doubt run rings around him already. God knows what he'll be like at West Midden!

He's at Broon's auld school! Let's vote him! Seems to have been their sole tactic. :-/
155

McMillar,

Fife 08/11/2008 10:37:12
157 An Greumach Mor - Ok…I didn’t actually say that but close enough and point taken. That is clearly a danger of going it alone and often it’s due to an inability to collaborate. (or play nicely). I happen to think Salmond has done a very good job so far but needs more of a track record running the country. Supporters like Mr Numpty don’t help anything as I wouldn’t want to be associated with any organisation with that attitude.
156

Ewan M,

08/11/2008 10:39:51
"It is good to fight a battle with people who do not know they are loosing"

I agree with you the SNP should give up. They can't even beat an unpopular Labour party when the UK is entering recession and they still think they have a chance!

Maybe start by trying to deliver ALL your manifesto pledges. Well I suppose that's asking too much and we should just gloss it over with a picture of Alex Salmond smiling...oh sh*t that doesn't work anymore, we're doomed!
157

Angleland Isover,

08/11/2008 10:40:58
You used to get a better class of englishman posting on these threads.
158

Anne, Glasgow,

08/11/2008 10:41:56
Well argued Andrew Allan. I totally agree with you. Labour's reduced majority by 4000 is surely nothing to crow about and I cannot believe the nonsense Scottish 'journalists' such as Glen Campbell saying that this a sensational victory for Labour. Campbell shows himself up. I suspect Angus Robertson, a very shrewd SNP MP, will not be that downhearted, realising that increasing SNP vote considerably is a positive move and a step in the right direction. The First Minister has conceded where the campaign went wrong whereas Labour took forever to catch up. Nuff said.
159

Wee Fred,

08/11/2008 10:44:49
If you cant beat Labour in the current climate you might as well go home.
160

Ewan M,

08/11/2008 10:44:57
#164 The quality of some of the Scotsmen on here ain't that high either attacking Fife people because they don't agree with their madate. Distatstful a best, a poor illusatrion of what some Nationalists are made of.
161

TWC,

Ayrshire 08/11/2008 10:46:02
163 Ewan M,08/11/2008

What like -- no means testing, increased pensions, redistribution of wealth, peace, an end to Boom and Bust??? etc.
162

Bejjy,

08/11/2008 10:48:06
#151 Son of one of Stirlings finest.

lol Brilliant

#5 Marky Bhoy

R.I.P.
163

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/11/2008 10:48:38
#165 Anne, Glasgow

Alastair Campbell, Glen Campbell at least one in honest about who he supports.

The origin of the name "Campbell" means "twisted mouth" true then as now. Campbells have many many times played a prominent part in Scotlands defeats.
164

George Mackay,

Dundee 08/11/2008 10:48:47
Interviewer: "Tell me Mr Salmond. Is it ture that you have no faults at all?"
Salmond: "Almost, but until Thursday night I did have one fault. I was smug and arrogant. But now I'm perfect."
165

Ewan M,

08/11/2008 10:49:14
It was 1982 the last time a party in power increased they're share of the vote. So I suppose Labour's success yesterday was no that big a deal, considering the First Minister already declared a SNP victory on Tuesday!!!!!

I wondered if the bookies will give Salmond his money back. I do think Salmond was correct in one instance, it was a political earthquake!
166

,

08/11/2008 10:51:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
167

Ewan M,

08/11/2008 10:51:29
Salmond ends boom and bust with his "light touch" regulation?

Salmond bring peace to the world?

When does your spaceship land?
168

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/11/2008 10:54:13
The amount of encouragement the labour camps seems to be giving to the myth the whole SNP camp is defeated and over.

We have never been in such a good position in history. We are stronger than ever, grewing in support more then ever, in government in Scotland, controlling local councils, increasing our share of the vote by 5%.

We increased our vote by more then the 3rd and 4th placed parties managed combined. Does not feel like defeat to me or any of the supporters of the SNP.

Labour have a lot to be concerned for and they know it. With England at stake in the next general election do you think you will be seeing any cabinet members in fife ever again?
169

noswod,

Honestas 08/11/2008 10:54:13
The lesson the Slamond the elite ex RBS economist and the SNP need to learn is that the Scottish people do not want Nationalism. The same forces that killed Scotlands two banks would kill a seperate Scottish nation, overambition, unrealistic objectives and hubris. Theres a good reason why in 1707 the Scots voted for union, it was a good deal and they were protected against unrealistic overambitious nature of part of the Scottish character. Lets keep this nice little deal we have in the union so we can all live in peace.
170

The Strategist,

08/11/2008 11:02:18
The thing I find truly surprising is that a few days ago this newspaper and others were applauding the news of the election of a new US President dedicated to "change" and determined to sweep aside old conventions and institutions.

When it comes to Scotland though it would seem that nothing but the status quo is acceptable. Bizarre.
171

Angleland Isover,

08/11/2008 11:03:16
#176 The Scots were denied a vote in 1707 just like labour are denying the Scots now.
172

Bejjy,

08/11/2008 11:11:27
#172 Ewan M,

I hear tell that Salmond put his money on New Labour winning the Glenrothes by-election. He might be smug but he's no mug when it comes to gambling.
173

domski,

Glasgow 08/11/2008 11:12:10
Anne 165,

An appalling analysis. hatever your politics, this has to be seen as a sensational vote for Labour given the current economic climate, and given the immense resources the SNP poured into the constituency.

Your argument would hold more water if Salmond and Co had not made their overwhelming confidence in victory so blindingly obvious beforehand.

Perhaps a lesson to the FM to tone down the arrogance a notch or two..?
174

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 11:15:35
Media 1. #79. A complete pile of pooh from you as usual. The Scots didn't actually know the first thing about it until Hollywood decided it could make a few bucks on a wholly inaccurate tale because we only ever got English history in school. Having been inspired by the film, we have read a lot of real history and now know why we should be proud of our heritage. Cor blimey, as they would say south of the border. Let's hope we get a blockbuster on Culloden before the ire subsides.(why, that was a battle fought between Scots Stewarts on one side and Scots and English Hanovarians on the other and thank god the Stewarts lost cos they were rubbish).

The last 24 hours have shown New Liebour in their true colours, liars and spinners. Additionally, they seem to think the Scots are stupid - they're not and resent the contempt that's poured on them by their would be masters, New Liebour. I'm sure many that voted for the SNP disliked labour as much as the rest of us, but when the only other choice was Gudrun's spin, lies and cowardice and deliverance from the wholly vile Mandelson, then they did the only thing they could. Lesser of two evils? You bet.

The problem for the New Liebour Party when the General election comes is that they are going to be consigned to the political wilderness for at least ten or twenty years, as they deserve. They hope to have stripped Scotland and left her an economic basket case before then though.

Tories, Labour and Liberals alike will form a league of scoundrels to maintain the poisonous union. They may find that such a package is effective in more than just stopping the SNP, it will also ensure that they remain in control from Westminster and that the Scots will be kept dumn, subservient and poor.

(You see, all the bo**ocks that the New Libour Posters on here attribute to the SNP is far more appropriate for their own party of lies and deceit)
175

Cramondo,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 11:18:14
However good the SNP's domestic policies might be,

keep these deregulated buses crossing over untolled bridges (just what we needed!) etc. ..........

The uncomfortable truth for is that the Scottish people are never going to vote for independence.

There's no Scotsman / Labour conspiracy going on, face the fact that most of us don't want what you want most.

You can have your dreams, but that's my prediction and I'm sticking with it.

SNP, stop your silly recriminations about negative campaigning (see what happened to this board yesterday if you want examples of negative campaigning; if the going gets tough bombard it with cr*p and try to get the debate shut down, how positive is that?).

You'll have to try harder, and with a fortunately less smug look on your face, and see if you can persuade us, because internet pack hounds aren't going to move things on.

As for the sad Bhoy who would rather die than live in the UK (making Dunfermline an unfortunate choice of residence) ..... for goodness sake.
176

Queen D,

Glasgow 08/11/2008 11:20:35
It is hard to believe anything said by the labour Party in economic terms.
It would seem that the Europeans are blaming the UK and US for the " economic downturn" RECESSION or DEPRESSION I think are better words.
We are being treated to lies and more lies by the Labour Party and the media .
177

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 11:21:17
#180 Or further evidence that there is something stinky in the state of Denmark, i.e. Broon fixed the result, hence the huge majority. They couldn't risk losing by a couple of votes, so they had to go completely over the score and stuff the postal votes or a ballot box or two in order to ensure a victory, thus confounding all predictions, (including their own). Alternatively, it could just mean that the Old Labour voters of Fife haven't been paying attentiona and are completely unaware what a parcel of rogues in a nation New Liebour actually are, choose your own scenario from these two).
178

The Strategist,

08/11/2008 11:27:03
Read this... Smacks of rats leaving the sinking ship.

http://tinyurl.com/6peocz

Labour's Britain ... I love it..
179

,

08/11/2008 11:38:44
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
180

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 08/11/2008 11:51:20
What was that noise? Sounded like a big tartan balloon (aka A Salmond) bursting.
181

Andrew Allan,

08/11/2008 11:53:28
#105.,Draco Was a Wimp. Edinburgh 08/11/2008 08:34:21
‘That has to be one of the most risible Nat comments I've ever seen! So Labour just pretended to be the underdogs so that the victory they knew was coming looked even more spectacular? Nasty Labour! Maybe they used hypnosis on Eck to make him come out with all his blowhard predictions?’

First of all Draco that would be ‘That has to be one of the most risible Nat comments I’ve ever read’ not seen, if you had been present in my company when I had said it you wouldn’t have said witnessed it, you would have said heard it, so in the same way it has to be read and not seen. Now to answer your comment on what I said, why risible? A safe seat with a majority of over ten thousand belonging to a government that has become unpopular, why would winning a safe seat such as that make it look like the government has gained anything? It wouldn’t. But to create a situation which makes the government look as if it gained the confidence of the people by Election Day would make it look as if the government was winning hearts and minds again. As for what Alex Salmond said before Election Day, I think you will find most parties do similar, it’s part and parcel of politics.
182

AJM,

08/11/2008 12:05:53
"That's my fault for not having my finger on the political temperature in the constituency."

Well he also said that he should have spent more time on the doorstep, err did he not have a candidate whose job it was to do that?

No mention of the party managers and campaign staff that should have told him, nope my finger, so he has lost trust in them?

Sounds like Alex is about to take total control of everything in the SNP as no one else know what they are doing and they let him down badly.

This is more and more looking like a one person party, pity the one other able politician, what state is it going to be in when it is left to hand over to her?

Alex is becoming to the SNP what the Margaret was to the conservatives.
183

subrosa,

08/11/2008 12:07:08
# 117

Indeed, look what's happened to Scottish banks. All under the leadership of Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling.

Have you heard about Finnish banks, Norwegian banks, Swedish banks (the list is endless) being in so much trouble that these countries will have to start begging to be back in a union with other countries? Please let me know.

The state of our economy will become evident in the next 12 months and then people will see that the 'Britain is best placed to handle the global downturn' is just a lie. Already so many economists are stating that the UK will be the worst hit, not least the IMF who perhaps sees banking accounts more than any other organisation.

I sympathise the the tories (never thought I'd say that) because they're going to have to tidy up the mess. Now we're into endless spending. Not our money of course, but middle east money. Money begged from people who must be laughing all the way to the bank and enjoying every minute of having Brown faun over them.

With few fiscal powers Scotland will be stuck in the debris of the UK and unable to pull ourselves out of it. Time we were able to look after our own affairs.
184

subrosa,

08/11/2008 12:11:45
# 180
'An appalling analysis. hatever your politics, this has to be seen as a sensational vote for Labour given the current economic climate, and given the immense resources the SNP poured into the constituency.'

Immense resources? What nonsense. Brown insisted MPs visit from London plus bus loads of students were brought up from English universities.

Labour have far more resources at their command and you know it.

The SNP rely on committed foot soldiers during election campaigns. The labour party in Scotland don't have many so have to rely on bribing students from England with a freebie.

185

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 12:19:13
The honeymoon may well be over........ for now, but the acrimonious political co-habitation between the Unionists and Nationalists will continue for many years to come, until Independence do us part!
186

john z,

edinburgh 08/11/2008 12:33:16
You know, maybe the SNP could have pulled it off, but in reality, Glenrothes was a long shot. You must remember, Brown is a Fife boy, his father the local minister. Brown was dux at his school.

It may seem trivial, but things like that can matter.

I agree, the SNP losing could in some ways be a good thing for the SNP. It will ensure going forward they are more focussed, and determined to counteract the copious lies from London Labour.

Scotland loses a great deal from the Union, the right to self determination, the right to fully control fiscal policy and the right to represent itself on a global stage. It also loses ALL its natural assets like Oil and Gas. Scotland loses under the union. Whether you like the SNP or not, the reality is the union serves nobody in Scotland.
187

Benefits scrounging toilet cleaner ,

08/11/2008 12:44:54
The Union is dead. Independence is coming.
188

salmondella,

UK - Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland 08/11/2008 12:45:10
My take is this - the aim of the SNP is independence through a referendum. To achieve success the majority of the votes cast must be in favour of independence. At their peak a few months ago the SNP probably commanded 45% for and 55% against independence thats if you take the opposition of all voters who support Labour, Lib Dems, Tories etc. The SNP must convert some of the opposition into support for them - a difficult enough task for a party in an ideal situation - eg which would be honouring its election promises and taking Scotland forward, a situation that not even the most diehard NAT would claim is happening at present. If the SNP were to ensure a majority for independence then they would have to win bye elections like Glenrothes, which would confirm that they were on their way to meeting the 10% to ensure a referendum victory. In a situation whereby Labour and its leader have never been so unpopular probably in their history and there is a credit crunch of which the LP must take some blame for- the SNP could not close the 10% gap mentioned above. This make independence impossible never mind unlikely - unless of course the SNP get their act together and start actually carrying out all the reforms that they promised before they were elected and by doing so will gain the majority of support they need - will this happen? Not likely.
189

Benefits scrounging toilet cleaner ,

08/11/2008 12:46:25
78% of people want independence. I should know all about statistics because I clean toilets.

Cleaning toilets is character building work that broadens your political horizons.
190

PockSuppet,

08/11/2008 12:49:35
Well done on the 200, Toilet Duck!
191

radge dug,

08/11/2008 12:49:57
SNP increased their vote in a solid Labour area by 13%. Sounds like progress to me.
192

Benefits scrounging toilet cleaner ,

08/11/2008 12:51:24
I clean public toilets because I am also a drug addict and Mr Jenkins caught me stealing when I cleaned the toilets of the office workers.

Now I clean the public ones and vote SNP. It's hard smelly work, but I'm not very clever and don't have any education.

I once read a pop-out book on Scottish independence though, that was a real achievement and influenced my political thinking. I used to be a Labour thug before that.
193

radge dug,

08/11/2008 12:52:02
#198 - take a look at the result in Glenrothes. Where did the SNP get their increased vote from? Labour also increased their share slighty - probably by taking Unionist votes from the Tories, hence why David Cameron praised Labour for winning 'for the union'.
194

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 12:53:58
Towards the end of October Alan Greenspan no less said the current economic crisis was a ONCE in a LIFETIME event of Tsunami proportions.

This was the backdrop in which the Glenrothes by election took place. Six weeks earlier the SNP would have strolled to victory.

The unionists played the fear card for all it was worth, the voters of Glenrothes took temporary shelter in the status quo.

Essentially little has changed, the movement towards Independence will continue steadily 'under the radar' until the economic storm has waned - we have already survived the worst of it.

The fact that nobody was able to predict the Glenrothes result means it was a complete freak.

(I'm sure those who claim that the votes counted were not exactly the same as the votes cast were just lashing out in frustration).

The HBOS saga is developing into a titanic struggle between Edinburgh and London with two major hitters, Burt and Mathewson entering the fray today with the most powerful argument to date for HBOS staying independent.

Anyone who thinks the arguments for Independence will fade into the distance like the 'shattered and broken' SNP are completely deluding themselves.
195

TWC,

Ayrshire 08/11/2008 12:54:38
The only way to defeat the SNP is to get rid of Barnett and give Scotland control of its purse strings.
If we don't I am convinced that Independence will come.
I hope the Tories propose something of the sort.
BTW I've heard a couple of rumours since the By Election

Rigged postal votes & Tories voting for Labour but I don't think the second one would have made much difference.
196

cataibh,

Over the Struie 08/11/2008 12:58:43
If Brown is such an economic genius why are we paying large wages, to understand, 184 senior government treasury advisors.
197

Rosscobhoy,

08/11/2008 13:13:16
As much as i think Charles Linskail comes across a bit loony, i have to agree with him that trying to increase the legal age for buying bevvy to 21 will have cost the SNP a lot of votes. I vote SNP but if i had just turned 18 and thought i would be unable to go out with my pals at the weekend because of their policies then i would vote against them for that reason. the vast majority of Young people do not particularly care about the economy or the world stage, they care about one thing and one thing only and that is themselves. How they can have a good time, how they can get wrecked to do this, and how much booze they can get for their money. While i agree wholeheartedly that something needs to be done about this type of culture, the SNP's answer was the wrong one and will have switched a lot of younger voters off from them.
198

vimto,

08/11/2008 13:40:03
Deary me,salmond couldn't hold a p--s up in a brewery, to all unionists in Scotland,the glenrothes by-election was the turning point,we are back with avengence and the natz will never destroy GB.
199

salmondella,

UK - Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland 08/11/2008 13:44:59
#204 Ragdug - no you are missing the point - a referendum is not an election between parties -its two questions -either yes or no,( albeit that the questions may be dressed up in fancy language) thus to get a yes vote you need to win over far more than the percentage increase that the SNP got at Glenrothes - and at the same time also ensure that the oppositions percentage increase does not rise over your rise in support -that did not happen at Glenrothes where there was a deficit in support for the SNP in relation to a referendum situation. So to get a yes vote - even if a referendum was carried out now would probably result in a crushing defeat for the SNP as the accumulative votes for Labour, Lib Dems, Tories etc would easily outnumber the SNP.
( apologies if this may sound obvious but it is a reality that the NATS must get sunk into their heads if they are to learn anything about politics or even simple arithmetic)
200

TWC,

Ayrshire 08/11/2008 13:46:01
Glenrothes matters not a jot, the New Labour slide will continue like Britain since the war and like our employment figures.
Wait till the Number hits 3 million then ask people what they think of Brown.
He has just enough time for an election but he is afraid.
201

vimto,

08/11/2008 13:52:16
216. Funny how if you had won glenrothes it would have been a wonderful victory,but because Labour did it doesnae really matter! people like you are the reason scotland will never accomplish anything.
202

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/11/2008 13:56:33
213 vimto,08/11/2008 13:40:03
"Deary me,salmond couldn't hold a p--s up in a brewery, to all unionists in Scotland,the glenrothes by-election was the turning point,we are back with avengence and the natz will never destroy GB." Said Vimpto

"Of course you are Vimpto. Winning a battle in one of your safest seats with the entire labour party and scottish media campaigning for you you managed to hold your ground. Labour are certainly back with avengence" The nurse said sypathetically to the patient.

"Now lie back down and let the medication take affect, the Doctor will be here to see you soon, Now, no more of this crazy talk or they will never let you leave this secure unit"...
203

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/11/2008 13:59:09
#219 Red Etin

No he is just confused, A life time of support for the Labour party with no benefits and all empty wasted chanced to improve things, he has had a break down.

He is not drunk it is just the medication they keep them on.
204

The Strategist,

08/11/2008 13:59:19
#213

The SNP don't have to raise a finger to destroy GB. Gordon Brown and his commissariat are doing a wonderful job of that all on their own. What the SNP want is to give Scotland the chance of avoiding the armageddon. If you don't like that idea and prefer to go down with the sinking ship presumably waving your red flag then that's your choice.
205

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/11/2008 14:01:15
218 - Vimpto

You gained nothing, you just held what you already had.

We won nothing either but gained more than we had to start.

It is what those in the real world call steady progress.
206

vimto,

08/11/2008 14:04:18
219/220. That is typical natz rhetoric,bully your way through everything and anything,except this time you were stopped dead in your tracks,salmond and all who follow him are about to be booted out the door,he is the biggest con man this century!
207

salmondella,

UK - Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland 08/11/2008 14:07:01
#222 The?? - Apart from aboloshing the Forth Road Bridge polls and reversing the Monklands A&E closure can you tell me what real concrete and measurable reforms that the SNP have carried out in Scotland and to what benefit please ( and please do not mention the LIT which as everyone who can count to ten has ridiculed as completely unworkable and unfair)
208

Toast,

08/11/2008 14:10:02
This had nothing to do with politics and everything to do with a corrupt labour ar*e licking media,all the tabloids and to its shame the scotsman are quite happy to print labour lies and state they are fact,politics of fear and misinformation always lose eventually
209

brownlie,

08/11/2008 14:12:38
225 salmond

How much was your council tax this year compared to last year's??
210

vimto,

08/11/2008 14:12:57
226. MUST BE WHY SALMOND LOST THEN,he's full of sh=t.
211

vimto,

08/11/2008 14:17:55
Look, the fact remains Labour won,salmond expected to win he did not conclusion- good night for Labour,awful night for SNP,excellent night for unionists,dreadful night for nationalists,END OF STORY.
212

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 08/11/2008 14:22:32
well I wont be fooled by Gordon Brown and his cronies.

he couldn't care less about Scotland unless it is in his own interests and this time it was to save his own skin.

Time for change. You all go on about the age of alcohol etc well to get rid of the violence etc if that works so be it. The young people themselves should stand up themselves and stamp it out then it can go back to 'normal'.

Wonder if you will all be labour when we get all the dumping from down south on our doorsteps.

Time for change so get aff your back sides and make it happen.

Gordon is not Obama and never will be. At least Alex Salmond is trying to keep Scotland Scotland and not to have a Scottish country clearance with all us scots being chased out of our own country by people from other places including the English
213

The Strategist,

08/11/2008 14:32:22
#232

Surely you mean a good night for Labour,awful night for SNP,excellent night for unionists,dreadful night for PATRIOTS!
214

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 08/11/2008 14:44:21
I think the SNP alcohol policy has been damaging and cost them votes, I would love for labour to have taken another kicking at this election but alas it was not to be. Keep your chin up Mr Salmond and drop this ridiculous policy which serves no purpose, the binge drinking will stop once the country has better leadership and our young adults have some sort of future. Cause and effect will ensure the problem eventually corrects itself without extreme interference from government...
215

Benefits scrounging toilet cleaner ,

08/11/2008 14:44:31
I chair a group called the disabled homosexual muslim post-op transexuals group with down's syndrome for independence.

So how can you tell me the SNP aren't progressive when they divert £5,000,000 from essential medicines and home-care to funs such progressive projects.
216

Alba Abú,

08/11/2008 14:48:25
195 happy english.>>>>>>>> I feel that I must agree with you on this one. If you take time to read some of the Scottish unionist comments on this thread you will clearly see that Scotland is no where near Independence.With so many insecure people in our country it is clear that England was born to lead and Scotland to follow.There are some people who are just born to be subservient to another country,in Scotland that group are known as unionist/ loyalists. Pity the ignorant.
217

salmondella,

UK - Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland 08/11/2008 15:06:50
#239 Blimp - Are you an apologist or a spokesperson for The Stategist to whom I adressed the question of what had the SNP had actually done since getting to power. I will answer your (deliberate?) diversion to my pertinent questions in due time, given that the LIT is still a proposal and has not been implemented as a policy by the SNP, when your pal, The Stategist has bothered to answer me - or you may be able to help him and the other "patriots" out although for the life of me I cannot think of any reforms apart from the two that I have mentioned. But as some telly person used to say -" You may know different"
218

Benefits scrounging toilet cleaner ,

08/11/2008 15:25:20
I am in favour of the LIT.

Why should I have to pay for any service I receive? When those hardworking people who couldn't out the country fast enough can be landed with a bill for many more thousands?

Just because I am a skiving, lazy toilet cleaner who can't stop your public loos stinking while still cheating the system out of benefits and commiting crime in my free time to fund my junk habit?

Just because I am all of those things New Liebour want me to pay for some services? No way, let's make everything free in a New Bold Scotland.
219

Benefits scrounging toilet cleaner ,

08/11/2008 15:38:48
Hamilton is full of crack who-res, rent boys and disgusting hooligans. A perfect recruiting ground for the SNP to lure these scum-bags with promises of more benefits to scrounge if they sign for independence.

The witch in the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe lured edward the same way with turkish delight. But these SNP scroungers can't read and didn't own books when they were little so are all thick and stupid and easily led.

Except in Glenrothes, where the decent, hard-working conservative voter did something unspeakable, voted for Labour to stop the great evil of independence.
220

izzie,

dundee 08/11/2008 15:38:49
Anyone supply me with the following info
What would the 5% swing to the Nats mean in terms of seats in the next General Election
221

AM2,

Scotland,UK 08/11/2008 15:40:36
#5 Marky Bhoy

I was shocked and actually saddened by your post. I hope it only indicates a touch of post-election depression, but if not, I hope you come to see that we're so much more than just our national identity/ies: whether Scottish, British, neither or both. Sorry if that sounds condescending; it honestly wasn't my intention.

Best wishes.
222

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 15:59:48
245 AM2#

I would want to kill myself as well if Scotland was populated with anti-Scots like you!
223

TWC,

08/11/2008 15:59:59
218 vimto,08/11/2008 13

Sorry I just wanted anybody else to beat Labour, a general election will be different.
I admit it I just hate all that New Labour stand for.
I tell you they have nothing to offer Scotland and Glenrothes will see it over the next 3 months
224

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08/11/2008 16:17:43
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Benefits scrounging toilet cleaner ,

08/11/2008 16:30:38
I agree AM2 is a ffffuuuuucccckkkkkkiiiiiinnnnngggggg wwwwaaaaannnnnnkkkkkkeeeeerrrrrr but so are you Nevsky you fuuuuuccccckkkkkiiiiinnnngggg toilet cleaner.
226

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08/11/2008 16:30:39
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Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 16:33:28
249 benefits#

Kimba, sweetie, is that you?


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08/11/2008 16:39:18
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08/11/2008 16:55:05
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radge dug,

08/11/2008 17:12:04
#215 Salmondella - many polls have shown significant levels of support for independence amongst supporters of other parties, most notably Labour.

In fact, if you take away the tribalist support Labour enjoys "because we've always voted Labour" in certain areas, i'd expect the 'yes' to indpendence vote to increase.

It will come.
231

Walter Ego,

Durness 08/11/2008 17:24:07
Salmond's incompetence has consigned independence (note the correct spelling, nats) to the dusty shelf from whence it came. Scotland deserves better.
232

Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 17:43:53
248 Nevsky,Moscow 08/11/2008 16:17:43

"I also wanted to do myself physical damage when i visited your website (which i admit i have done twice)."

Great news Nevsky, may I recommend you visit it at least twice a day?

"This has to be the most embarassing and pompous paragraph i have read on the internet in a while to be honest."

Try re-reading some of your own posts, you will see that you easily win that award.
233

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08/11/2008 17:49:43
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08/11/2008 17:52:18
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PockSuppet,

08/11/2008 18:09:59
RTF & BTO - the poor man's Laurel and Hardy!

Priceless!
236

Conan the Librarian™,

08/11/2008 18:11:11
258
Agreed.

Any love is good love.
237

Conan the Librarian™,

08/11/2008 18:12:03
260
You aint seen nothing yet.
238

AM2,

Scotland,UK 08/11/2008 18:12:48
#248 Nevsky

Your idea of writing with what you call “style” seems to involve as high a density of colourful insults as you can muster. But if you don’t mind, I’d prefer to keep things rather more prosaic.
239

Pleistoanax ,

08/11/2008 18:18:19
Wee eck met Big Gordon's clunking fist. wee eck lost
240

Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 18:19:46
Hey BTO, what happened to the minutes silence today at Parkhead?
241

Conan the Librarian™,

08/11/2008 18:19:59
263
Good evening AM2
Prosaic.
"Commonplace or dull; matter-of-fact or unimaginative."

Fair enough.

242

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08/11/2008 18:23:48
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08/11/2008 18:26:23
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The Pict.,

Canada 08/11/2008 18:27:35
I note all the English er Union supporters are happy that Scotland lost one by election.
What about the others Scotland WON?

Yes we still have to understand that the 'CANNY DAE THAT' brainwashed are still plentyful in numbers and they still believe the C.D.T. English propoganda that they have been fed over the years.

It's time for them to get their act together. TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR EVERY MORNING AND SAY OUT LOUD: ' WE ARE SCOTS, WE CAN DO IT ! WE ARE MASTERS OF OUR OWN DESTINY. YES WE ARE! WE ARE SCOTS'!
On to VICTORY.
Slainte mhath.
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Pleistoanax ,

08/11/2008 18:29:13
263 AM2

UM! "prosaic." Good word here being used


http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/Dunkirk.html

The Knights of the Round Table, the Crusaders, all fall back into the past-not only distant but prosaic; these young men, going forth every morn to guard their native land and all that we stand for, holding in their hands these instruments of colossal and shattering power, of whom it may be said that

Every morn brought forth a noble chance

And every chance brought forth a noble knight,

deserve our gratitude, as do all the brave men who, in so many ways and on so many occasions, are ready, and continue ready to give life and all for their native land.

By one of history greatest Britons.
246

Pleistoanax ,

08/11/2008 18:32:43
#269 The Pict.(canada???)

there's the difference you look in the mirror we 'Unionists' look into the eye's of our enemies.
247

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08/11/2008 18:33:01
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 18:37:52
BTO No minutes silence at Parkhead.

The had to have a minutes applause.

They new that the fans would have disrupted it along the lines of the way they disrupted the minutes silence when the Queens Mother sadly passed away.
249

Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 18:40:28
What happened to Spook? He has gone missing.

What a double whammy he has had.

The SNP annihilated on Thursday, and Hibs annihilated today.

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08/11/2008 18:41:27
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08/11/2008 18:46:15
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 18:51:06
BTO

I dont think a minutes applause is an appropriate way to show respect for all the soldiers that have sacrificed their lives for all of us.
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Conan the Librarian™,

08/11/2008 18:54:01
274
Good evening Col.

Well, I took what I could get...
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Conan the Librarian™,

08/11/2008 18:56:23
280
Strangely enough Rufus, I agree with you.

Silence says it all.
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08/11/2008 18:57:42
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weh,

08/11/2008 19:14:07
The thing I find truly surprising is that a few days ago this newspaper and others were applauding the news of the election of a new US President dedicated to "change" and determined to sweep aside old conventions and institutions.

When it comes to Scotland though it would seem that nothing but the status quo is acceptable. Bizarre.


You find this "surprising", Strategist??

How bizarre!

When is your ship due in from the planet Zog??
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Conan the Librarian™,

08/11/2008 19:14:17
281
Perhaps he is talking about his favourite program; Dungaree wearing piglets on strings who sing in high pitch harmony?
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08/11/2008 19:21:34
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Voldemort,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 19:22:13
I find incredible that anyone can still vote for a Labour Party known throughout the land for corruption, pointless spending, the creation of 'made up jobs', neglect of the armed services, who is solely responsible for the violent, tax, squander, ban, sue, PC society we live in today.

It is utterly beyond me why good folk knowingly vote rats into their house.

Must be the lead piping in Glenrothes .....
260

Zambo,

08/11/2008 19:25:19
Unfortunately for Mr Brown this small victory against the SNP pales into insignificance in a general election where he will have some difficutly replicating the result across the country. If the government are emboldened to call GE in spring which they will lose by a landslide, the SNP will have a solid year to rebuild support for exiting the Union against the Unionist Party. Glenrothes could still be the small fire that burnt the house down.
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08/11/2008 19:29:30
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:32:11
could someone help me out with a bit of a history lesson how many wars exactly has scotland been involved in and who with?
263

Benefits scrounging toilet cleaner ,

08/11/2008 19:33:02
The SNP are excellent.

Are Down's Syndromes legally allowed the vote?

We could start a group called mungos for independence. Alex Salmond looks a bit like a down syndrome, he'd really win them over.
264

Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 19:33:32
290 Voldemort,Edinburgh 08/11/2008 19:22:13

"I find incredible that anyone can still vote for a Labour Party known throughout the land for corruption, pointless spending, etc"

Voldemort you make a valid point.

I think it therefore shows how poorly regarded the SNP is.

Labour should be there for the taking, but they are not and in my opinion it is down to the poor quality of the opposition parties.

I would also add, that Salmond puts a lot of voters off.

His smug, arrogant manner seems to be a hit with many SNP supporters, I do believe however that it puts a lot off people off that would otherwise vote for the SNP as a party.
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:36:41
okay rufus you assert that alex salmond is smug and arrogant okay tell us then what is the difference between arrogance and confidence?

i know what it is do you? im betting not you being a labour supporter of the type who generally has no confidence either in themselves or their nation.
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08/11/2008 19:37:29
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08/11/2008 19:38:28
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:39:01
hoos poos piano bar crowd...........
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Conan the Librarian™,

08/11/2008 19:39:15
297
Good evening Spook, yes, we ken.

Fly fishing? Did you get Rufus?
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:40:00
300 no seriously spooky think about it...........


scotland is a peaceful nation.
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:40:45
i see rufus was unbable to answer my question.
272

The_Reiver,

08/11/2008 19:40:46
Poor wee Alex Salmond. He's wandering around in a state of shock like a wee boy that's just been told that Santa doesn't exist. He could hardly string more than a couple of words together at his press conference. Well a good dose of therapy may finally remove the vestiges of his disillusion state.

Seriously though SNP folks you should really find yourself a leader who does not self-destruct in full public view. Well at least he gave us all a good laugh on Friday morning. Anyone who cheers things up in these grim days is all right in my book.
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08/11/2008 19:41:11
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:41:30
hes probably away googling it.
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:42:21
306 ah another labour supporter who doesnt understand the difference between confidence and arrogance.
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08/11/2008 19:42:32
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08/11/2008 19:43:39
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Conan the Librarian™,

08/11/2008 19:44:36
The Piano Bar is open for business;-)
279

Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 19:44:58
"305 karinxxx,08/11/2008 19:40:45
i see rufus was unbable to answer my question."

Thats true Karen, I do not know how to unbable anything.
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 19:46:06
Hey Spook, its great that you are back.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHIBS!

You really are a loser this weekend.
281

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:48:59
314 so how do you know the first minister is arrogant if you dont know what arrogance is?
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 19:49:27
#310 Aberdeenshire Scot, you really should not put yourself down like that.

You must have something to offer (apart from all your multiple signons, Kyle the Carrot, Ladyboy and all that).

Great result on Thursday eh.

I suppose you being a loser anyway, meant that it was nothing more than you expected.
283

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:49:54
so basically rufus you just hear something and repeat it without finding out the truth bout what something is.
284

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 19:51:14
#294 karinxxx,

Bit of a question there Karin every battle for the last Thousand years has had its Scottish warrior with the blood of the vanquished dripping off him.

And through him the British built an empire.
285

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08/11/2008 19:51:25
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The_Reiver,

08/11/2008 19:52:39
Sir Peter Burt and Sir George Mathewson, former chief executives of the Bank of Scotland and Royal Bank of Scotland respectively, oppose the takeover of HBOS by Lloyds TSB

First Trump and now more crooks trying to take over Scotland- I believe that the 'Kremlin Mummy' Alex Neil is now having further talks with causa nostra in Palermo who are going to make HBOS an offer they can't refuse. (Disney have registered in interest in Edinburgh Castle too).

Sir George Mathewson was a Banker,
Now as FM's adviser he's a high-ranker.
He feathered his nest,
From bonuses at RBS,
In other words he's just a complete..charlatan.
287

Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 19:52:57
karenxxx WTF are you on about?

Try and be a bit more coherent.
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:54:18
321 NIKOS

which countries has scotland went to war with over the last thousand years.
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08/11/2008 19:54:50
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 19:55:45
323 Bird of Prey, Will Pan what you say,Roseburn terrace 08/11/2008 19:52:05

"Nice one Rufus you sure hit a sore point with my pal Spooky but he did score with his girlfriend last night, yes scored with his girl, something you have never scored with so one up to the Spook."

No I probably have never scored with her as I have never had to pay for such a service.

These students clearly have too much money.
291

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 19:55:46
325 Im just showing everyone how you say things without knowing what they actually mean.

you know like the difference between confidence and arrogance.

by the way the arrogance youve got down to a T.
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08/11/2008 19:55:51
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08/11/2008 19:56:42
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 19:57:37
328 Aberdeenshire Scot,08/11/2008 19:54:50

"what are you dribbling on about, oh demented sad lonely snarling one?

I have never trolled your name. Good grief, I find is distasteful enough corresponding with such a sad wee obsessive let alone assume your manky and ludicrous "persona""

A liar as well I see, looks like you have no redeeming features.
295

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 19:57:58
I'm not sure who is laughing more.

It is either the unionist posters who have incessantly bombarded these forums with triumphant pant wetting hysterical nonsense, or me who has been doubled up in laughter at their aforementioned.

No need to name names - we all know who they are.
296

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 20:00:24
#327 karinxxx

try here

http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/battles.htm

and what's your take on the by election
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Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 20:00:27
328 Aberdeenshire Scot,08/11/2008 19:54:50

"Good grief, I find is distasteful enough"

Is distasteful enough??

Is your English a little limited?
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08/11/2008 20:02:26
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:04:43
338 nikos there was a by election?

i must have fell asleep and missed it?

anyway back to the wars?

so which countries ahs scotland been at war with?
300

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:08:07
rufus you stil trying to google the difference between confidence and arrogance.

I have news your never going to understand it while your following the labour party.
301

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 20:08:13
#342 karinxxx


Now come on! or don't you care about the snp anymore?
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:09:12
arrogant people join the labour party confident people look to the snp. Your just never going to understand why because your too arrogant.
303

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 20:10:18
#343 Birdy

you Nationalists might do that with your mothers but we 'unionists' are decent god fearing folk.
304

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:10:42
345 no seriously nikos yeah im disapointed that was a joke i did see it. but hey you win some you lose some then you move on.

now about those wars..............which countries has scotland been at war with.
305

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:13:04
345 i will get to the point as soon as you tell me which wars scotland has had with other countries even if you only name a couple of the battles and the countries. i just want you to check it out.
306

Fairfife,

Fife 08/11/2008 20:13:47
The Campaign Against Home Care charges is a group of disabled people that joined together back in November 2007 after the charges were increased from £4 per week to £11 per hour.
Since then they have petitioned, lobbied councillors, local msp's and local mp's, and been out on the streets giving out leaflets.
Many people have been affected by the rises in Home Care, personal care, the community alarm and the shopping delivery charge, either personally or somebody they know.
People on the street understand and comprehend that a party cannot on one hand expect disabled and elderly people to be means tested for the most basic of needs and then on the other hand promise free prescriptions, free hospital car parks, free school meals for P1 to 3 for everybody not means testing, freezing the council tax and taking the tolls away, and then expect to be respected and voted for.
The fact that Cllr Peter Grant is head of the Council in Fife who are ultimately responsible for the charges, and not expect when he stood for Westminster for it not to influence what people thought of him was perhaps naive.
The Campaign have been very evident both to the Council and the people in Fife, and if the Council had actually listened to what the people of Fife were saying, perhaps things may have been different at the by-election. We will never know.
But for the Campaign Against Charges the campaigning did not finish on Thursday, and I am sure they will still be very much evidence in the future.
Perhaps the Council in Fife should consider what they can do to appease the disabled and elderly that are affected, sorting out the problem that is obviously there, to ensure this is not an issue at future elections.
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vimto,

08/11/2008 20:14:22
The trouble with some scots eg Hoots,is that they are as thick as pig sh-t as well as being thieving bast--ds,if anyone sees jimmy le pie tell him he owes me £50,if the snp had won i'd of payed him but they didn't so,unless you want the people of England to think you are all a pack of thieving g-ts as well as total tw-ts better tell him to pay up,terrible rugby result by the way,england did quite well.
308

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 20:16:05
347, Nikostratos (with the extra comma), why do you unionists fear god?

From where does your guilt stem, eh?
309

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:16:06
351 thats very interesting tell us more.
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Conan the Librarian™,

08/11/2008 20:16:16
342
Karin.
Since Kenneth Mcalpine?

Mostly England, but Denmark, Norway and Ireland on occasion.
And of course Scots fought, as mercenaries, all over the world.
311

vimto,

08/11/2008 20:18:37
348. The same countries as England,as you are still and will remain for the foreseeable future part of the UK.
312

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:19:56
nikos what were the wars with denmark norway and ireland about?
313

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:20:36
now which of these countries nikos did scotland launch and invasion against.

314

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:22:14
sorry nikos that should have been launch an invasion.
315

vimto,

08/11/2008 20:22:18
361. England!!!!
316

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 20:23:44
oh,358 vimto, you are so superior, eh no?

Did you never stoop to consider that karinxxx@348 was referring to the period prior to 1707?
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Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 20:24:59

#350 karinxxx,


try here then


http://www.zum.de/whkmla/military/britain/milxscotland.html

1316 Scottish Invasion of Ireland

1612
Scottish Expedition to Norway (mercenaries) (Dano Swedish War 1611-1613)
318

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:25:18
My point is that scotland before the act of union never invaded another country. Any wars that scotland engaged in before then were in defence of its own territory and since then scotland has been dragged into more wars than i have had hot dinners. in effect scotland is in wars it would not have chosen to participate in had it been an independent country scotland are nto warmongers unlike england. 9with the exception of world war one and two cos nearly everyone was in that. although you could argue we would have been neutral like ireland or switzerland.
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karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:31:11
365 and if you look at the invasion of ireland why did they go there i beleive it had something to do with england............
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Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 20:32:05
#367 Hen Broon,


with a big Unionist belly laugh.ha ha ha ha ha ha ha to you.

tell me henny do you think the scottish electorate were duped and are stupid for voting for labour as some of your snps are saying.
321

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:34:14
372 im making the point that scotland is a peaceful nation and keeps getting into wars purely because of english warmongers.
322

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:34:53
373 you know like iraq afganistan.
323

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:35:06
wars on terror.
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Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 20:37:00
#369 karinxxx

Scottish soldiers have killed people all over the world and throughout recorded history for a few pieces of gold.

sad but true if your looking for perfectibility it's not in this life.

ps do you think jaffa cakes and fosters lager is a good combination..yum
325

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 20:39:34
#373 karin


Robbie came into work drunk today so I had to send him home,,what should I do on Monday ?

326

Fairfife,

fife 08/11/2008 20:39:36
#356 karinxx

What else would you like to know.
Members of the Campaign Against Charges met with Mr Salmond when he was in Fife, but I don't think he took them seriously.
He has been asked to come and meet all members after the by-election, to hear how the Charges are affecting people.
The Campaign would like to see not only Care charges in Fife sorted, but a fairer system throughout Scotland.
Fife Council Administration have been a bit like a brick wall, with their feet well dug in and determined not to budge on the Charges.
The Campaign hope that perhaps they might begin to listen.
327

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 20:48:34
Nikostratos (with the extra comma). Various.

You never did get back to me on why unionists are afraid of god. I'm not.

You seem to be harping on about Scottish mercenaries. Yes, Scotland has a history of mercenaries and that is a good thing.

No doubt you will wonder why.

Btw your dodgy link gave no information on the invasion of Ireland. Off the top of my head I think it had something to do with the brother of de Bruis.

Now about Englands wars and invasions? Or would you rather not talk about them?
328

karinxxx,

08/11/2008 20:53:06
379 I would like to know what the group proposes?

I understand what your saying that you feel vulnerable members of society who need things like home alarms shouldnt have to worry about how they are going to pay for them. however i dont think its fair to say they are getting free stuff why shouldnt we. We all know there is only so much money to go around especially because we get a block grant from london and we are not getting a fair share of barnett consequentials. If we had fiscal autonomy then maybe things would be better.

I think what scotland really needs is a system whereby the people of an area decide the councils budget as in the council makes up a this is how much money we have then ask the local population where spending priortites should be.
329

vimto,

08/11/2008 20:54:12
346. Guess you mean something like this-- Unable to act himself, Philip VI asked David II of Scotland for help, and in October 1346 David led a large Scottish army south against Durham. It was met by an English army under Lord Neville. The Scots army attacked over poor terrain (17 October 1346) and were cut down by English archers. The most disastrous outcome of this Battle of Neville's Cross (for Scotland) was the capture and lengthy imprisonment of David II. Scottish resistance continued, but was weakened.
330

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 20:55:08
Ultimatum to the Scottish parliamentarians, 1706.

Sign this and we will protect you from your enemies.

Who are our enemies?

The French, Belgians, Dutch and Spaniards.

They are not our enemies.

They will be when you sign this.

Aye, who else would side with their enemy against their friends?
331

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 20:58:03
#382 karin

do you agree that giving 'EVERBODY' (even those on very high incomes) a council tax freeze led to not having enough money for home alarms.
332

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 20:58:22
384, Bird. You are going to seed?
333

vimto,

08/11/2008 21:00:40
385. So that is how you see England and her people,as your enemy! maybe this enemy should stop paying you 23 billion a year.
334

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 21:02:50
#388 VINTO

Jock sees his fellow scots as his enemy let alone the English..
335

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 21:03:28
vimto - the poor man's pepsi. Don't believe everything you read in the papers.
336

vimto,

08/11/2008 21:05:21
389. LOL!
337

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 21:07:00
Nikostratos (with the extra comma) finds it within him/her self to reply to posters who post to me but does not find it within him/her self to reply directly to posts I have made to him/her.

What manner of beast it that? A god fearing one?
338

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 21:07:02
pop over to the herald

Labour’s surprise win wipes smile off Salmond's face
Iain Macwhirter on Glenrothes


Old Ian is giving it good to the snp..wonder if they like him so much now?
339

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 21:08:33
What's with the extra comma
340

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 21:15:58
I'll tell you what's with the extra comma. You google a web page with one date on it. You pose. You cannot answer a serious question involving debate and you expect me to believe you are the same Nikostratos without the extra comment.

Begone, troll imposter.
341

vimto,

08/11/2008 21:23:33
393.He says it as he sees it,salmond is a dead man walking,soon his political career will be 6ft under and his bile confined to the past.
342

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 21:23:44
#395 Jock

nah honest it's me I got moderated after i posted a comment on Sean connery tax status on the Alec Ferguson thread I reckon Tranquir was behind it.
343

Nikostratos,,

08/11/2008 21:27:01
#396

the snp cybernats used to say Ian was the most brilliant Unionist of his day not so long ago.wait and see what happens to that thread tonight and tomorrow.
344

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 21:38:14
397 Nico#

Sean Conery has always paid tax in the UK despite the smear campaign. In 2005 he paid something like £3,500,000.

How much did you pay during that year?
345

vimto,

08/11/2008 21:40:25
399. How much did he pay in 2007/8?
346

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 21:42:16
397 Nico#

I do wish little nobody's like you would stop going on about Connery. Read about how much of his personal earnings he spends in Scotland and compare him to what you do; maybe then you will be in a position to comment.

Not a political point, Anne Gloag, Hunter, Farmer, Mackintosh and Connery are all benefactors to Scotland regardless of what their political persuasion is so shut your face; you contribute little and never will.
347

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 21:44:27
400 Vimpto:

No idea, he released the figures (which are highly personal anyway) to shut up the loud mouths like you; i wouldn't have done it, would you?

Anyway, you are on the dole in Cumbria and you probably took his hard earned cash so what are you bleating about?
348

vimto,

08/11/2008 22:03:53
402. I have Never been on the "dole" as you put it,and i am not as previously stated in cumbria.
349

santa cova,

08/11/2008 22:07:21
#280 What soldiers and where?
350

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 08/11/2008 22:13:58
SNP = waste of space

Most votes for the SNP have never been about their platform, but simply a protest at Blair and Labours incompetance. Sooner or later it was bound to mean that the SNP train was derailed.

Oh dear, what a pity, how sad.

Maybe now finally the grin is off Salmons fat mug.
351

Rufus T. Firefly,

08/11/2008 22:45:52
341 Aberdeenshire Scot (Ladyboy) ,08/11/2008 20:02:26

"334. Rufus, thatyou are a lonely cyber obsessive we understand. That you are a 54 year old virgin on incapacity benefit"

What is your obsession with incapacity benefit? You repeat that almost every day.

Incapacity benefit?

You are one heck of a sicko.
352

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 23:05:30
407 Rufus#

Great news for you regarding the latest opinion poll from the Telegraph:

Tories: 43%; Labour: 30%; LibDems: 18%; Others: 9%.

Predicted Tory majority 100 seats which is great news for you being an Edinburgh Unionist.

Get down to London much for a dwinkies at the Groucho club what what? Thought not, Scottish unionist lol.

You must be delighted that the true unionist party will sweep to power, what a bonus for you!

353

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 23:06:22
Yon Rufus has the same time clock as a winged insect that feeds on effluent. Bit like a stable of journalists.

Talks effluent too.
354

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 23:08:59
407 Rufus#

Like i said the middle English Telegraph and Times voters are much more astute than the average Scottish housing estate (the rock-bed of your unionism).

Middle England will boot Broon oot like a hot tattie back to his 'unionist hameland lol' in Fife as soon as they get the chance.
355

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 23:10:11
Song moment,

Somewhere, under the radar....
356

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 23:11:33
Song moment,

Once you have catched them never let them go.
357

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 23:12:18
Rufus#

Here is another wee brain bender for you:

Telegraph poll in England puts the Tories at 43% and in Glenrothes 3.8%.

Spot the difference? Spot the Edinburgh unionist di*k who thinks he has a lot in common with Berkshire?
358

Benefits scrounging toilet cleaner ,

08/11/2008 23:20:21
Here is my analysis of the current political climate in Scotland.

SNP are farkin' braw. 48%

Liebour are farkin' homosexuals. 52%

By the 2010 that fat little down syndrome dwarf Alex "Fudge packer" Salmond and his tartan army will have give 102,346 blow jobs to cash desperate junkies to achieve the 3% swing to gain independence.
359

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 23:21:07
413, Nevsky. Please understand that Rufus does not have a brain per se. The entity is part and parcel of shift duty. It comes with the job.

That's why the personality behind the postings changes.

Best to ignore it altogether.
360

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 23:26:46
414 benefits#

Kimba you are so jealous.

I know it's difficult living in Cumbria with a Scottish ex who dumped you for a sheep but you can be comforted in the fact that Sir Sean Connery's tax in some way contributes to your faggots and liver every Thursday (dole day).

361

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 23:37:00
The project is the same one it always has been, to secure self determination for Scotland. It will happen and while the SNP will learn lessons from this campaign it will not affect their commitment to their cause one iota. The fact is the SNP's vote went up substantially, Labour's went up slightly while both the Tories and Lib Dems lost their deposits.

Labour retaking a seat where they had a 10,500 majority is not as big a deal as the unionist press would have us believe. The SNP won a seat in Glasgow East, Labour held a seat in Glenrothes, there's a difference. Or would the papers automatically expect a labour win in a strong SNP held seat? I doubt it.

As for Salmond's 'arrogance' in saying the party would win, faint heart never won fair lady. The SNP took a good shot at it and failed but they were up against a dishonest campaign which grossly misrepresented the policies of Fife council.

If Brown thinks his goose is saved because of this then he is only fooling himself. Keep on claiming we're dead Britman because it will make our ultimate victory all the sweeter.
362

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 23:51:34
417 Joe#

Don't worry about it. In the future they will all be known as quislings. Something no nationalist can ever be accused of.
363

Reiver,

Galashiels 09/11/2008 14:08:23
#269 ... so proud of being a Scot that you live overseas ... yeah right mate ... Scotland didn't lose an election, the party claiming it would win it that has control over the scottish executive LOST it ... so sweet to see the first of many defeats for these malcontents and their increasing numbers of broken promises and vows ... proud to be British and I do live here.
364

Reiver,

Galashiels 09/11/2008 14:09:39
#418 ... glad to see you're still up to your normal level of incompetent drivel ... keep up the nonsense, it's like an innoculation against the natzism ...
365

Reiver,

Galashiels 09/11/2008 14:42:07
#366 ... you obviously don't know scottish history, you should check out the various texts on the Borderers who did frequently invade England on raids for nefarious purposes including rape and pillage ... there is also evidence of the highland clans engaging in this practice not only amongst themselves, but by travelling south into the lowlands scotland and northern england before we became the United Kingdom.
366

Ewan Oosami,

09/11/2008 18:12:13
Coira, when you finally get to primary school I'm sure they'll teach you to write properly with correct grammer and punctuation, until then I'm sure you are doing your best!

 

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