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Brown to deny Scots Parliament more powers

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Published Date: 09 November 2008
GORDON Brown will this week reject plans to boost the powers of the Scottish Parliament, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.
In the wake of Labour's Glenrothes by-election victory over the SNP, the Prime Minister will argue there are no reasonable grounds for changing Scotland's devolutionary settlement.

Nationalist ministers have argued that powers – for example, over gun crime, taxation, broadcasting and electoral law – should be transferred to Holyrood immediately.

But in a 120-page document to be released tomorrow, Brown's Government will pour cold water over every area, arguing the current division of powers is still the best for Scotland and the UK.

Senior sources close to the Prime Minister declared the move as a bid to show a "more confident" UK approach to the SNP threat in Scotland following the Glenrothes victory.

They also played down claims Brown had backed plans to give Holyrood more taxation powers. Instead, they say Brown had only agreed to review how the "financial accountability" of the parliament might be improved, a measure which stops short of a transfer of tax powers.

The tougher line from Whitehall comes with Labour reinvigorated following last week's victory over the SNP. Despite claims by Salmond last weekend that the party would win, Labour came in first by nearly 7,000 votes.

Salmond said on Friday that he bore full responsibility for the defeat and SNP strategists believe that support will return to them once the full effects of the financial recessions begin to bite.

However, Labour chiefs are now planning to step up the pressure on Salmond, claiming that in a downturn, worried Scots will spurn the choice of a "luxury vote" for the SNP.

The document to be released tomorrow is the UK Government's response to the Calman Commission, the body set up by Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems, to examine Scotland's constitutional future.

Yesterday a spokesman for Salmond said: "All those who engaged with the Calman Commission to achieve more responsibilities for the Scottish Parliament will be sorely disappointed by this negative response.

"The Labour Party has led them up the garden path. Iain Gray has to answer whether he stands with London Labour, or with his colleagues on the Calman Commission in developing the case for more powers. The Scottish Government's National Conversation is the only genuine and inclusive process setting out how, by the Scottish Parliament securing additional responsibilities, Scotland can become a more successful country."

The UK Government claims the current devolved arrangements have been a success and argues that the settlement has operated effectively, even when the Labour/Lib Dem coalition was replaced by a minority SNP administration.

A Scotland Office source said: "This report reflects the increasing confidence that the UK Government has that the current settlement is the right one."

The paper reasserts the view that North Sea Oil, a key component of the SNP's argument for independence, should remain a UK-wide resource.

On immigration, the paper declares there is a "compelling case" for it to be continued to be controlled by Westminster.

"If immigration rules were more generous in Scotland… there could be an impact on the rest of the UK as migrants established themselves in Scotland before moving to other parts of the UK illegally," it warns.

On council tax, it restates its claim that the SNP's plan to replace it with a local income tax would result in the end of council tax benefit, which amounts to £400m a year.

On social security, it claims that any move to devolve benefits would place "additional burdens" on business, and would necessitate "residence tests" to prevent Scots claiming English benefits, or vice versa.

The paper also dismisses SNP calls to devolve firearms legislation in order to allow Scotland to ban air guns.

The full article contains 634 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 November 2008 11:01 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Glenrothes by-election
 
1

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 00:06:44
Brown is a quisling and a disgrace to his own country.
2

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09/11/2008 00:07:52
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3

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 00:09:30
The headline should read 'Scottish (English) Quisling in Wesminster denies his own countries democratic demands'.

Make no mistake what Brown is, a quisling!
4

subrosa,

09/11/2008 00:11:20
Not surprising. Brown needs Scotland far more than Scotland needs the labour party.

So the Calman commission has wasted £500,000 of our money. No surprise there either.
5

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09/11/2008 00:13:10
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Edward,

09/11/2008 00:13:58
Hope the people of Glenrothes are pleased with themselves in supporting this rat
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09/11/2008 00:16:22
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8

Wisnaeme,

09/11/2008 00:22:40

"claiming that in a downturn, worried Scots will spurn
a luxury vote for the SNP."

Quite right. Ah mean to say, we can't have folk making decisions for themselves. After all, that's what Westmidden is for. That's what we at Westmidden are bought and paid for, to do. Is that not so, Mandy?

Oh the arrogance of it.

.
9

Tris,

09/11/2008 00:25:35
So, will the Calman Commission be told to report that no more powers should be given to Edinburgh?

They might as well pop off home now. Mr Brown has saved the Universe and is now going to save the union without the help of the estimable Mr Calman. What a farce.

Well done, Glenrothes. His head was big enough before. Now he thinks he's invincible. Well at least we'll all get a good laugh at Mr Roy explaining why he can't do anything about his campaign issues, as they are all devolved! Unless of course Gordon Superprat Brown takes them all back to London.

10

Rasco,

Inverness 09/11/2008 00:32:06
We all thought the Calman Commision was Wendy's idea now we know better, Broon is not a Scot but I won't say what he is.
11

chico y,

09/11/2008 00:39:30
Brown's a disgrace. What the h311 were the people of glenrothes thinking off ! This will finally expose
Iain Gray. Does he go with Calman or stay in line with his master.
12

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 00:41:02
10 Rasco,Inverness 09/11/2008 00:32:06

"Broon is not a Scot but I won't say what he is."

Come on Rasco, spit it out!
13

Littlehorse,

London 09/11/2008 00:48:57
Nice one Glenrothes! Thanks for supporting a national disgrace like Brown. I hope you can all sleep well night.

Brown, you are the lowest of the low.

14

Colkitto,

River Clyde 09/11/2008 01:01:05
The people of Glenrothes fell for a Labour con trick.
Brown couldn't give a damn about them, but more fool them for giving him their vote !
15

Horrigan54,

the Hebrides 09/11/2008 01:08:16
The man with no mandate looks in the mirror and does not see a Scot.

Hes a disgrace to Scotland - utter disgrace.

The New Labour Project are as bad as Thatchers Tories. Not a single moral fibre amonst them!

Boot them out!! the SNP are the only party to represent Scotland!!

Scotland NEEDS indpendence soon...
16

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 09/11/2008 01:11:10
Yes - unfortunately Brown is a Scot.

Well, at least Brown is now nailed down to a position on the consitution. They will campaign for no change at the next election. There'll be job losses all over the place, a recession and Gray will have to defend the status quo. Glenrothes = turkies voting for christmas.
17

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 01:14:26


Well! At the present time, I Say, GOOD On Brown!

WE cannot keep on, going on, with the most Stupidest Proposed Legislation's, that Salmond was acting like a,
'Bull-in-a-China-Shop' with!

That is why he lost Glenrothes in the first place!, and why he WILL go on to Loose, many more!


18

ochone,

Sauchie, clack's 09/11/2008 01:16:04
whatever happened tot he Calman Commision? will it be wrapped up? oh and what do the Tories and Lib-Dems have to say about this? and hands up those who are really surprised?
19

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 01:25:32
Calman commission should be wound up tomorroe then. Anyone in any doubt as to what the agenda here is must take a good long look at themselves.

Ever party in the parliament agrees that more powers are needed so what now? The whole democratic Scottish process is halted by Westminster?

Anyone who thinks Scotland is an equal partner in the union had better think again, she is the mother parliament and the democratic wishes of the Scots are dismissed out of hand.
20

Rasco,

Inverness 09/11/2008 01:30:45
Son of Maggie maybe Rufus.What's your take on the contract going to PayPoint for the Post Office card will he dither on that one,answers on a postcard.
21

gus1940,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 01:30:51
So the money spent on THe Canute Commission has been p---ed against the wall.

Unsurprisingly Brown has had his mind made up all along and has made his views clear before the commmission has even produced its report.

He has obviously been a bit carried awsay with the result of the con trick perpetrated on the electors of Glenrothes.

22

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09/11/2008 01:54:20
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Merouane,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 01:54:21
"However, Labour chiefs are now planning to step up the pressure on Salmond, claiming that in a downturn, worried Scots will spurn the choice of a "luxury vote" for the SNP."

Well, we can trust Labour to make sure that the downturn hits Scotland harder than the rest of the UK. Anything to keep the SNP out and our beloved Union in place.
24

Merouane,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 01:56:15
#18. to my surprise, Tavish Scott has been quite outspoken over the HBoS takeover, so perhaps he won't be willing to lie down to Brown over this either...
25

Guga II,

Rockall 09/11/2008 01:56:25
Maggie Broon (a.k.a.) Toom Tabard has illustrated once again just how much of a Quisling he is. That, of course, is in addition to his being a liar, a charlatan and a war criminal.

Te only saving grace is that the English will boot out the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party at the next general election. Moreover, as the recession will have well and truly had its effect by then, with massive job losses, a soaring cost of living, yet more taxes, and more repossessions, a lot of the monkey voters in Scotland might well wake up to themselves too.
26

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 01:57:30
Could not make it up; 2 days after the by-election Brown tell the jocks to 'fu*k off'.

A true Scot and patriot!
27

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09/11/2008 01:58:26
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09/11/2008 01:59:58
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Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 02:00:48
27 BTO#

Not according to the telegraph poll today, the Tories have a huge lead over Labour. They are finished! Do keep up old boy!
30

Is mise,

Ross-shire 09/11/2008 02:06:24
I wonder if the people of Glenrothes would have voted differently if this came out before the bye-election? He continues to despise Scotland. God knows why people continue to vote for this lot. The SNP is always pro-Scotland whereas Labour continually put us down.
31

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 02:07:07
27 BTO#

Could you point to your information regarding this? Conservatives have a 13 point lead over Labour (in England of cousre).

The Conservatives polled 3.8% in Glenrothes but you will accept the English vote of course. Anything other than the SNP for you.

Coupled with Brown stating that Scotland will get no more powers and the Calman commission is redundant it's a great day for the union!
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09/11/2008 02:11:18
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 02:18:50

BTO ~27,

Take it that's you? howcome you keep changing your user name?

Anyway!

Alex was stupid, he dismissed all our 18-30year old voters, as Children, telling them, he would NOT tolerate them, telling them, how to wash their hands, and wipe their B*m!

I Told Everyone, this would make the Man unpopular, and he would, loose, loose, loose!

AND HE DID!!

It is of,..'NO-WONDER' Brown is made a HERO!!

At least He Will allow a 21year old, to go out to the Supermarket, and Purchase a 'Bottle of Wine' to let the 21year old 'wet his new baby's head', or even celebrate his Wife's Birthday, with a bottle of champagne!

BUT!,..'OH-NO' Not Salmond! He wants to dictate to our 21year olds!, at the same time!, wanting their Votes!

YER HAVVIN A LAUGH, COMES TO MIND!

WELL THE LAST LAUGH, WAS ON ALEX!

THEY ALL VOTED,.."GORDON BROWN"!!

AS One with a modicum of intelligence expected!


34

Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 02:25:36
33 BTO#

A slight lead? 13 points after Brown the saviour of the universe running to the rescue? You call this a slight lead?

I though thid was his high point?

The fact is that middle England (the educated classes) will destroy the Labour party at the next election because they are liars and incompetant fools.

No comment on Brown pre-empting the Calman commisssion then? What was the point of it, maybe you could explain.

Tories 13 points ahead of Labour and poll 3.8% of the vote in Glenrothes; slight lead in England indeed!
35

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09/11/2008 02:26:06
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09/11/2008 02:27:49
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Nevsky,

Moscow 09/11/2008 02:30:50
37 BTO#

The leader is not being recognied in England is he? The recession is just starting to bite now and you think this will increase Brown's popularity?

Brown created the problem but Brown will not be around to see the country out of it; England will make sure of that!

38

Bzzzz,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 02:35:01
Sooner the general election is called the better, the english hate brown more than we do. A Tory government down south will be great for independence.
really still cant believe anyone voted for him after he destroyed our economy thenb claimed the glory for fixing it! fixed is it? disnae look like it te me!
39

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 02:35:57


BTO ~36,

What 'gets me' the SNP did very well to get to the stage they were at, I know this, because as a 'Teen' I helped, 'Fight their Good Cause'!

But in these Day's, the SNP wanted our younger voters, of-course they did, it made perfect sense!

Now in 2008 we have a Man, Leading the SNP, doing his damnedest, to alienate, all our young voters!


WHAT DID THE MAN EXPECT?

CHOCOLATE BUTTONS!!?


40

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09/11/2008 02:41:18
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 02:42:30






BE PUNISHED FOR THE ONES YOU PUNISH!!




42

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 02:44:15






BE AWARDED FOR THE ONES YOU REWARD!!




43

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 02:45:09





BROWN, TAKES THE GOLD STAR!!




44

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 02:46:22




OUR YOUNG AWARDS THE,..."GOLD STAR"!!




45

Marky Bhoy,

Scotland 09/11/2008 02:46:45

This is getting serious

We need to find away of hitting back and hurting them

I will not be slapped across the face by an anti Scottish government any longer other nations have rebelled for less

DONT TREAD ON ME
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09/11/2008 02:52:28
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09/11/2008 02:54:45
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 02:55:46


Marky Bhoy ~46,

If the "Muppet Show" was on today, Salmond would be a,..

..."Guest of Honour"!


49

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09/11/2008 03:08:40
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Dunnie,

Canada 09/11/2008 03:09:50

Charles - go to bed.
51

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 09/11/2008 03:13:42

46 and 47

You might be a pair of smug gits now but our parliment is being denied powers by a hostile regime and you are happy all I can say is woo hoo

If i was violent I would meet you both in a pub tomorrow and take you both on

You would be easy to recognise with the unionist boot prints on your heads

DONT TREAD ON ME
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09/11/2008 03:22:23
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09/11/2008 03:28:10
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 09/11/2008 03:48:06
Brown believes that Glenrothes was his "Darien" moment.

It is now up to the people of Scotland to stand up and be counted. Don't be sold again, by the greedy Unionists whose only interest is personal power and wealth.

Glenrothes was, indeed, a turning point; Brown has proved this. No more executive powers for the SP - or in Blair terms the "parish council".

The people of Scotland, now, have a clear choice. Brown, tomorrow apparently, will give us that choice; submission to the Union, or national pride.

The choice is ours!

FOR A FAIRER AND MORE PROSPEROUS SCOTLAND: VOTE SNP.
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09/11/2008 03:52:31
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09/11/2008 03:55:38
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 03:55:44


frank mcbride ~55,

Yer Havvin A Laugh!

"FOR A FAIRER AND MORE PROSPEROUS SCOTLAND: VOTE SNP"

THIS IS FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!!!!

More-the-Likes, Control Freaks Gone Mental!!

If that is the Scotland you want, You Are Welcome to it!!

58

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09/11/2008 04:01:36
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 04:08:16

BTO ~55,

Gotta Go! cu L8R!

Nice the chat, and all that,...

...'Haggis-neaps-and-tatties' are Good!

Alex! unfortunaltly is NOT!


60

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09/11/2008 04:09:35
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 04:10:03


re: error above,

#55 mistake, should read #59




62

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 04:12:35

BTO ~61,

I am! serious problems in that dept!, not due to me, but, others that have wrecked her life, I am doing my best.


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09/11/2008 04:15:05
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09/11/2008 04:16:27
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09/11/2008 04:18:57
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 04:20:36


KampungHighlander ~64,

There is NO "Choice" that is the Problem!

A Loony or Brown?

YES! The "Choice" is ours!

Speaks Volumes, dont it?


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09/11/2008 04:27:20
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09/11/2008 04:28:55
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09/11/2008 04:29:17
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09/11/2008 04:29:32
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09/11/2008 04:29:47
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09/11/2008 04:30:07
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09/11/2008 04:30:18
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09/11/2008 04:30:33
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09/11/2008 04:30:47
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09/11/2008 04:31:11
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09/11/2008 04:31:27
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 04:31:50
"Sand paper feet" Salmond was drubbed at Glenrothes.

I will bet my own money on a victory, he said.

Would you put that man in charge of Scotland's finances?

How long before he blew the budget.....
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09/11/2008 04:32:06
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09/11/2008 04:32:41
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09/11/2008 04:33:51
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09/11/2008 04:34:19
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09/11/2008 04:34:52
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09/11/2008 04:36:02
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 04:36:14
Your You're

As I was saying, Salmond made McCain look young and energetic.
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09/11/2008 04:36:53
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09/11/2008 04:37:36
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09/11/2008 04:39:24
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frank mcbride,

lusitania 09/11/2008 04:39:56
#56, BTO.

The people of Glenrothes had their chance and they voted Unionist (NuLab with the help of tactical Tory and LibDem) - says a great deal, does it not?

The people of Scotland have not had an opportunity and, if the Unionist Alliance has its way, will not have in the proposed Referendum in 2010 - says a great deal, does it not?

#58, Charles.

Your humour is most enlightening.

Come back over from the dark side. You know it will make you healthier.
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 04:40:14




Comming off 'Night-Shift' must be fun!


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09/11/2008 04:42:08
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 04:42:43
Does Salmond get his suits from Tam Shepherds?
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09/11/2008 04:43:34
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09/11/2008 04:44:07
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 04:44:20
GB007

Are the girls busy tonight?

Stay close to the phone.
97

Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 04:45:39
GB007

Have you got a yo-yo habit?
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09/11/2008 04:46:03
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Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 04:46:06

GB007 ~95,

NO! I dont want to "stay awake"! you are the one, keeping me up, I just want bed now! :)

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09/11/2008 04:46:52
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09/11/2008 04:48:47
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09/11/2008 04:49:44
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09/11/2008 04:50:45
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09/11/2008 04:51:34
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09/11/2008 04:52:41
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KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 09/11/2008 04:56:48
The funniest thing about BTO is that he is so thick that he doesn't realize GB007 is taking the mickey.
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 05:00:21
This is serious stuff.

Salmond has led many "down the garden path"

Brown has us on the yellow brick road.

Well done Gordon
108

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 09/11/2008 05:03:58
The big question is, are Charles and BTO for real or are they just a couple of Nationalists pretending so they can make all Unionists look like they have the IQ of a Turnip?

After all, have you ever met anybody that thick?
109

Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 05:06:24
#109

What's your background?

Just for the readers
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 05:12:04
Salmond's biggest mistake was speaking.

He was doing OK until that part.

Brown is a focused, serious leader, and he knows how to pull the UK through this global crisis.

111

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 09/11/2008 05:27:21
#111BTO

"Brown is a focused, serious leader, and he knows how to pull the UK through this global crisis."

I must apologize to all the Turnips for comparing you to BTO and Charles, from the above statement BTO is obviously a species on to himself.
112

donald,

glasgow 09/11/2008 05:48:05
The McCalmans are singing from a C of E hymn sheet.

"God grant that Marshall Wade
Rebellious Scots do crush"

At least Wade built some roads in Scotland.
113

Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 05:51:12
Isn't it funny how the SNP scrap scroungers come out after the election. Looking for any hand-outs going.


The hard working get on with dealing with the problems in hand.

Salmond- takes a vacation

Brown- working thorugh the night.

Need I say more......
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09/11/2008 05:52:45
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09/11/2008 05:54:41
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 05:56:13
#115

"A scrap scrounger" I presume...
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09/11/2008 05:57:16
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09/11/2008 05:58:27
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 06:02:04
The SNP party structure.

Salmond (who is washed up and done)

No one else.

Yes, it looks good for SNP

Back to the book sales.....
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09/11/2008 06:03:30
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 06:14:25
Salmond and Rofl Harris soon to re-release that old time favourite "Two Little Boys", just in time for Christmas.

Sales are expected to be high, according to SNP sources.
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09/11/2008 06:17:03
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 06:24:06
Back to the main story

Why could there not be a minutes silence at CP?

Every sporting ground around the Commenwealth holds one.

CP can't.

Celtic. Please explain.
124

Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 06:26:21
GB007

Do you follow football?
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09/11/2008 06:26:46
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09/11/2008 06:27:47
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Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 06:32:14
When will Celtic explain this insult?
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KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 09/11/2008 06:44:04
#122 BTO

Since you like Christmas Songs here is one that Labour hopes is a hit to get the party out of Hock.

Christmas sales are expected to be weak with everyone getting a P45 instead of a Christmas Bonus.

It is sung the the tune of Santa Clause is Coming to Town.

He's Breaking The Banks
Not Once But Twice
He's Teaching The Scots
He's Not Very Nice
Gordon Brown is going to Town

He's see you when your Weeping
He knows your mortgage is late
He doesn't give a flippin tosss
He's one eyed Scots Ingrate

Oh you better not shout
After the Glenrothes route
He Telling his Lies
Calman's left out to dry
Gordon Brown is Going To Town
129

Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 06:55:04
#129

Christmas song?

Set the scene. Salmond in his rocking chair, with pipe.


I wish I was Santa Claus

But I'n nt, I'm at a loss

Worthless cause, that's all i've got

And, my rocking chair

Join me

Join me

As I rock, on my creaky chair


I'm going nowhere

Will you go there with me

What can we see

A golf course where the beach used to be....

I tried to stop the merger

yes, I tried.

from my typewriter...

The Beatles wrote some songs for me


Nowhere Man

Paperback Writer....


It's the end....

130

KampungHighlander,

09/11/2008 06:57:42
#129 Cont'd

He can be very vicous
He likes to infuriate
He put Mandy in Cabinet
Cause he can almost pass for Straight

Oh you better watch out
Policies that won't fly
First you lose your house
Then its a P45
Gordon Brown is Going to Town
131

Bachman-Turner Overdrive,

09/11/2008 07:01:29
#130

cont'd

The End
132

,

09/11/2008 07:21:08
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133

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 07:27:57
the one power the scottish people still have is the power to say 'NO' Which is what they did at Glenrothes.

NO to the snp
NO to Peter Grant
NO to Alex Salmond
NO to Independence
NO to a snp economic disaster

and Yes yes yes to the continuing 'Union' and yes yes to Gordon Brown the British Prim minister
134

School Inspector,

09/11/2008 08:20:30
Excellent - good for Gordon! The Scottish Parliment has shown no ability whatsoever to manage the authority that they currently have. Giving them more is not clever. He should be removing power from the Scottish Parliment - not handing over more.
135

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 08:34:30
Hey BTO/Charles, a great nightshift.

#135 School Inspector
Spot on. All the place does is issue meaningless promises.

"Free school lunches for all primary 1 to 3 pupils" and no we are not paying for it.

What a joke.
136

Rufus T. Firefly,

09/11/2008 08:57:29
#137 Happy English it is true.

A section of Celtic fans even had a demo against our soldiers at their match yesterday.

Absolutely disgraceful.
137

Pleistoanax ,

09/11/2008 08:58:11
Where are they? where are they? the snp Cybernats hiding away in their caves watching spiders no doubt.
138

We are responsible for ourselves.,

09/11/2008 08:58:36
What a splendid sight to read this on a dreich Sunday morning and witness Rufus and pet bigot gimp BTO unhook their belts and curl off a series of hot steaming turds of ill educated propaganda.

Do keep it up chaps, every post you make is another SNP vote in the bag.
139

TWC,

Ayrshire 09/11/2008 09:01:58
No devolution must continue, UK has been in a downward spiral since the second world war.
If Devolution is not forward looking then Independence is Guaranteed. Glenrothes was just a slow down,there is a real change taking place in Scotland and elsewhere.
140

,

09/11/2008 09:05:16
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141

morris,

edinburgh 09/11/2008 09:08:48
134

Yes You can claim that,but the reasons for doing so require scrutiny.The Labour party campaign focused upon the council record which is debatably relevant to a Westminster election,and of course one has to ask are claims made by Labour which are KNOWN to be false s victory,or just the usual LIAR triumphs once again.Of course Scotland can say NO after being conned out of billions for the last forty or so years,and we can insist upon no more powers for the Scottish parliament and even as has been suggested ask for less powers,but you have to be stark raving mad as a hatter to want to!
This is not a victory for Labour ,its a triumph of popularly held misconceptions over truths.
I congratulate the NEW LABOUR party,You remind us why we cannot rest until you are driven from office,because you are unfit to govern.Fortunately our Union will serve us once again and elect Cameron into no 10,and Glenrothes will waken to a Tory government and still not realise its idiots like them who elected the Tory governments into Scotland. They have only done it before for four consecutive elections including the Thatcher years.Now if you are trying to tell me that voting Labour and securing a Tory government for the fifth time is the thinking of an informed electorate,then please excuse me if I laugh uncontrollably at the futility of what you are about!
142

Miss H,

09/11/2008 09:09:18
Oh my. I thought they would be a bit overly triumphalist but this is incredible.

Puts the Lib Dems and Tories in an interesting position!!
143

john z,

edinburgh 09/11/2008 09:15:56
Memo to the Lib Dems;

The Calman commission really listened to you, didn't it? Think twice before hopping into bed with the bed of liars and traitors known as Labour.

Brown is a traitor to Scotland. Just as well he has an armed guard 24/7.

But we all knew Calman was a waste of space.
144

john z,

edinburgh 09/11/2008 09:19:25
What are the benefits to Scotland of the English union??

We give them our oil and gas, we give them our taxes, fuel and distillery duty, and what do we get in benefits???

Please someone tell me the benefits of the English Union.

Scotland cannot afford the luxury of being saddled with english debts and english economic failure. Scotland needs to get rid of this english burden, otherwise Scotland will really lose long term. england cost us scots dear, and we just can't afford it anymore.
145

TWC,

Ayrshire 09/11/2008 09:21:45
Yes Brown said he would not interfere with Calman. The guy hates Scotland.
When he came to power I really liked him now I really struggle to find anything to like in him.

C'mon the Libdems and the tories aye even Solidarity get rid of Liar number 2 and brown is one.
146

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 09:23:01
#144 morris

Although i believe the snp and their supporters are evil in intent and Scotland would be well rid of them. I would not and do not call any Scot who chooses to cast their vote for the snp an 'Idiot' you only reveal the malign depth of hate the snp can harbour towards their own Scottish Citizens.

Morris who in hell could trust a fanatic such as you and yours with untrammelled power.

#145 Miss h

There is a lot to be 'triumphalist' about
147

We are responsible for ourselves.,

09/11/2008 09:23:06
#143 Happy English, true?

Let's take Lindsey Roy's acceptance speech as an example, he spoke about SNP cuts in education.

Here's some truth for you.

The 2007/2008 education budget under Labour was set at £247.4 million.

The SNP-Lib Dem budget was £272.2 million an increase of £24.8 million.

Labour cut the education budget by £8 million in the last two years in power

SNP brought in 27 new teachers - Labour cut 75.

Under Brown, Glenrothes lost post offices at Denbeath, Dundonald Parkk and the Kingdom centre. When Brown gives the Post office Card account to PayPoint, the Carleton Post office will be the first to close as they take 30% of their business through POCA.

Care charges. The £11 an hour care charge is applied in 30 out of 32 councils across Scotland. Labour Glasgow City council charges £16.50 an hour.

The 4% of those affected in Fife with the £11 charge pay a maximum of £90 a week for care packages in many cases costing over £3000 a week. e.g. a young quadraplegic requiring constant 24 hour a day care will only pay £90 from his benefits.

NOBODY OVER 65 PAYS FOR PERSONAL CARE.

Happy English you wouldn't recognise the truth if it crawled up your colon and planted a flag.
148

izzie,

dundee 09/11/2008 09:29:39
I see Jenny Hjul is spewing out her usual anti-Scottish vitriol in the Sunday Times. 'Scotland was viewed as a foreign country' is that because we are more optimistic more forward thinking and more confident than our English masters? We will not go back to being told we are too small to weak and too stupid and believe it.
149

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 09/11/2008 09:31:52
The next Christmas Number 1 brought to you by the Labour Party and its overseas donors.

Sung to the Tune of Santa Clause is Coming to Town.

He's Breaking The Banks
Not Once But Twice
He's Teaching The Scots
He's Not Very Nice
Gordon Brown is Going to Town

He's see you when your Weeping
He knows your mortgage is late
He doesn't give a flippin to$$
He's the one eyed Fife Ingrate

Oh you better not shout
If you want you can Cry
The Calman Commission has
Been left out to dry
Gordon Brown is Going To Town

He can be very vicous
He likes to infuriate
He put Mandy in Cabinet
Cause he can almost pass for Straight

Oh you better watch out
Policies that won't fly
First you lose your house
Then its a P45
Gordon Brown is Going to Town

He sees you when your working
He knows when your on break
He knows if you vote labour or not
Aren't ID cards just so great

Oh you better not whine
They know who you are
45 Days Detention
If you go to far
Gordon Brown is Going to Town

He Bombed all the Iraqies
And laid waste to Afghanistan
If those Scots don't watch how they vote
He'll use Thatchers Master Plan

Oh you better not think
He'll seek a mandate
Your only escape
Is to emigrate
Gordon Brown is Going to Town

150

Mikey,

09/11/2008 09:33:30
It's amazing, isn't it? Armed uprising in the north of Ireland gets you a seat at the top table, but behaving ina gentlemanly, democratic way gets you zilch!

There are only three types of Labour supporter in Scotland; the terminally thick, the anti Scot and the liar & cheat who see this in Labour and think it is a virtue!

The time is fast approaching when REAL SCOTS will have to stand and be counted!

I don't want to see trouble in the streets of Scotland, but the anti Scots who support Labour must wake up to the fact that their continual dismissal of real democracy for Scotland and Scots will come back to haunt them.

Gelnrothes was a blip. You can't win them all and it would be a sorry day for democracy if one party did! It did expose however, the lies and cheating of Labour. Maybe it's time for a level plating field in Scottish politics. Maybe it's time the National Party fought elections like Labour does!

Whatever happens, let's not forget that the goal is Scottish independence and freedom London control! Let's do it politically before the more, shall we say, militant nationalists do it for us!
151

brownlie,

09/11/2008 09:36:32
143 happy english

Word to the wise, chum, us unionists have to be careful mentioning demonstrations as no doubt some nat will point out that millions in England demonstrated against the Iraqi invasion and we could do without mentioning wars or soldiers that died in vain.

As for BTO and Rufus - thanks, chums, as usual you show up what is truly fantastic about unionism with your positive messages. It is obvious that us unionists have "dreams and songs to sing"!
152

DoonhamerA,

09/11/2008 09:37:12
Forced to intervene in response to the hysterical and abusive flood of comments from SNP fanatics - does the SNP have a list of these people who are told to pour out this kind of thoughtless byle all the time. Their response to alternative views gives a good indication of wht their "independent" Scotland would be like. INTOLERANCE writ large.

I do not share the enthusiam of my SNP friends for independence but I respect the sincerity of their beliefs. Oh that the contributors here could show the same respect fro the majority of people in Scotland who are not as convinced as they are of the potential benefits of independence.

The question of whether or not the powers of the Scottish Parliament should be increased or for that matter reduced needs to be approached on the basis of what makes more sense. That is not the position of the SNP which sees devolution as a stepping stone towards their aim of independence. Most Scots however want a devolution settlement which works well and we might expect to see changes as time goes on. But change should happen where it is found that the present settlement does not offer best government for Scotland. The Scotland Act has indeed given rise to areas of awkward overlap with UK Government - in areas such as agriculture and environmental policies - and solutions should be found for these. But if the aim is best government for Scotland - rather than furthering the SNP's drive towards independence - solutions could involve more powers to Holyrood in some areas and less in others. That view will, of course, no doubt leave me open to the kind of hysterical, vile and intolerant views of previous contributors.
153

MoClana,

09/11/2008 09:37:49
#146 Happy English - if you happy being English then F OFF ! Take your muderous Brittish pride and shuve it up your ar * se.

How dare you come on these posts demanding that everyone shows prides in the brittish troops, whereby they sympathise with the horrendous posistion they have been placed in, we do not agree with the reasons in which they are there, nor is every section of society oblijed to celebrate the Briitsh army - the same army which has been the front line of an imperialist, muderous, looting empire for the last 300 years.

Your nothing more than an anglo centric eejit who wraps themselves in a flag, bloodstained and toren. And before your start your 'Brittish' garbage - i used to serve in the RSDG's, ...tell me what your service was ? Now kindly oblige as above.

As for this article, for an exclusive in a sunday paper it offers no further investigation other than than Unionist rejectionist drones. Where was the other parties responses? Where is the projection given for such denial of democracy.

The people voted Labour out of fear, spin, and negativity...no more than 48 hours later, brown has rewarded their folly by slapping them in the face and their country once again. This man actually believes by denying the Scottish people more powers, they will break. He is insane and any luck which they have carved for themselves since Friday has just been reveresed.

Lets hear it from Calman, Grey? Goldie and Scott - explain why your tax paying commision has resulted in nothing more than an embarrasing slap in the face of the Scottish people???

Soar Alba
154

,

09/11/2008 09:39:33
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155

vimto,

09/11/2008 09:41:10
Excellent news,SALMOND ISN'T FIT TO BE IN CHARGE OF A BURGER VAN LET ALONE A GOVERNMENT.
156

oder,

Scotland 09/11/2008 09:43:12
one of the benefits union for Scotland will be all the advantages from the Olympics games going to London one of the first of these will be 250,000 tons of toxic waste, since the good people of Glenrothes voted Labour should they not be rewarded with this instead of the people of Falkirk? after all Polaris subs are just rusting away in Fife too! we are good enough to be a dump for Labour not much else! and just think of the future we can look forward for more of the same when they retire Trident. I am beginning to wonder if Labour are right! are we are to dumb to be independent?
157

vimto,

09/11/2008 09:46:08
156.
Whatever happens, let's not forget that the goal is Scottish independence and freedom London control! Let's do it politically before the more, shall we say, militant nationalists do it for us!

If this is a threat to the people of England all i can say is BRING IT ON,and lets settle this once and for all.
158

izzie,

dundee 09/11/2008 09:47:00
Sorry trawling newspapers this in the Sunday Telegraph = Cameron welcomes Gordon Brown's Glenrothes reprieve - OMG
they hate the SNP more than they despise each other we must be doing something right. In addition the SNP are not a one man band remember Nicola Sturgon v Jack McConnel?
159

vimto,

09/11/2008 09:48:02
164. Never thought of it that way,but your spot on.
160

Mikey,

09/11/2008 09:48:33
169, like a true Labour numptie, you can't even read!

Be off with you and stop trying to pretend you're an adult!
161

brownlie,

09/11/2008 09:48:37
168 Bird of Prey

I'm surprised that you let spooky kip there as the photos showed conclusively that he is better-looking than you!!

PS: Spooks, that's a pint you owe me!!
162

tommy M,

Scotland 09/11/2008 09:51:04
Funny to watch the unionist posters dribble but still NOT ONE of them can explain why Scotland should remain within the union that robs her dry. Heathcliff Brown's small victory with reduced majority does not hide the fact that he has the blood on his hands of innocent Iraqui's and scottish soldiers.
The people of Glenrothes were not given the chance to scrutinise Liebour, thanks to the might of our unionist media -shameful. You are so right to say that other nations have rebelled for less.
No surprises about the CC - was always a farcical waste of time and money.
The "compelling case" for North Sea Oil to remain a UK wide resource is that Westminster/Engerland would be forever bankrupt without it. This is why they had the shifting Northwards of the maritime boundary pushed through without debate. Aye, it's about the fishing just now, just wait and see...
Time for liebour to be SCRUTINISED at every opportunity. if our so called media won't do it, let us do it ourselves.
Time to up the game folks.
SNP -FOR SCOTLAND.
163

morris,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 09:52:30
149
The SNP are evil in intent? Now we really are in fantasy land!

The SNP wish to facilitate the right of the Scottish people to self determination,and are a democratic party who abide by the decisions of the majority.There is nothing evil about it .You on the other hand seek to deny that fundamental right if possible and have shown this again and again.I accept the democratic decision and there is nothing evil about it.There are serious questions about the sanity of anyone making such a stupid comment however!

Its not the SNP who lied to the Scottish people.Its historical fact that the three Unionist parties did and if you are proud of that (which you apparently are)then I make no further comment, because I could not adequately reflect upon your absurd position as efficiently as you do yourself!

"I betrayed my country and I am proud of it" is what you are saying.Either that or I am too stupid to know what is historical fact!

In either event I cannot see the logic of your position.Most Labour party activists know that their party lied to Scotland! You apparently don't even know that (or are proud of it).Which is equally irrelevant.
Glenrothes has achieved nothing as did the election of Willie Rennie in the neighbouring seat,and the bigger picture has completely escaped them.

A TORY GOVERNMENT LOOMS and whilst the SNP will be accused of wanting a Tory victory (to try and deflect the village idiots away from realisation that voting Labour has elected them into Scotland), it will serve one useful purpose only.It will make some Scots realise how stupid they are to listen to Labour who are trying to save their own skins and mortgages and care nothing about the people and are prepared to elect Tory governments in perpetuity and still not understand that own goals count but they serve no useful purpose.
164

KWC,

Edinburgh (via Glenrothes) 09/11/2008 09:53:43
Ah, well. The people of Glenrothes have spoken -- and they will have to live with it. Their judgement was always suspect. They wanted an idiot and they got one. Probably suits them.

Glad I got out.
165

DoonhamerA,

09/11/2008 09:56:35
#146 Happy English - if you happy being English then F OFF ! Take your muderous Brittish pride and shuve it up your ar * se.

Just what I meant earlier. So anybody who is not a fanatical nationalist should leave Scotland to the likes of MoClana.

Pity to see our forces being dragged into all of this. I have no difficulty at all separating the service gine by our forces from the rightness of wrongness of decisions taken by Governments to send them to fight. I happen to think the decison was wrong in the case of the Falklands but right in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan. I know nobody who does not think the decisions were right in the case of the two World Wars.

Whatever the war I remember generations of Scots, Irish and Welsh who have fought and died together. By their lights they did their duty. I do not celebrate the wars or the sacrifice but simply remember all the ordinary people who suffered and pray that we can find a better way of settling disputes.

SNP fanatics cannot simply keep quiet and respect the views of others like me but, as with everything else, turn it into another opportunity to attack everything British in hysterical and intolerant terms. They may not like it but some of us feel British and Scottish. Pride does not come into it. It is simply who we are and who we want to remain.


166

vimto,

09/11/2008 09:56:44
172.militant nationalists do it for us!
Now what would that suggest to you? Another Northern Ireland maybe, i'm afraid it's you who is acting child like.
167

Ugly George,

09/11/2008 09:59:43
174 tommy M
"Funny to watch the unionist posters dribble but still NOT ONE of them can explain why Scotland should remain within the union that robs her dry."

Perhaps they feel they do not have to as proper, professional, analysis done by various bodies demonstrates that your claim of being robbed dry is not the case.
168

vimto,

09/11/2008 10:00:45
162. I'd rather take your bilious bile and shove it down your throat whilst you try and sing the hallelujah chorus!
169

brownlie,

09/11/2008 10:03:46
176 morris

Rubbish!!! the UK Government never lies.

Not about:

dodgy dossiers
weapons of mass destruction
45 minutes imminent attack
plundering of pensions
hidden taxes
selling of honours
donations
backing a referendum
not backing a referendum
10p rate of tax
not 10p rate of tax
fuel increases
no fuel increases

I could go on but I hope you realise that the fore-going blows your contention out of the water.

Gordon Brown - Scotland's interests at heart!!!
170

Ugly George,

09/11/2008 10:04:11
147 john z
"Scotland cannot afford the luxury of being saddled with english debts and english economic failure. Scotland needs to get rid of this english burden, otherwise Scotland will really lose long term. england cost us scots dear, and we just can't afford it anymore."

Please go and study the analysis on this issue undertaken by CPPR at Glasgow Iniversity and by Oxford Economics. You will find that your assertions are inaccurate.
171

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 10:06:13
#182 Ugly George

The voters in Glenrothes understood well enough.
172

,

09/11/2008 10:07:36
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173

,

09/11/2008 10:08:12
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174

John S,

09/11/2008 10:09:18
After Glenrothes ?
1.A Labour MP will still represent Glenrothes.
2.The SNP and independence will not go away likewise Gordon Brown who has never put his leadership to the UK electorate via a general election will still be the PM.
3.The Labour Party will still be in power because in the 2005 general election which Labour had Tony Blair as their leader they received 36.91% of the total votes cast, which gave them the 66 seat majority (55.2%) in Parliament.
4.Iraq still no WMD's found and 176 UK service personnel have been killed-Oct,2008.
5.Afghanistan still not safe enough to install the oil pipeline and 122 UK service personnel have been killed-Nov 6,2008
6.Labour Party 1997 manifesto.We are committed to a referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. An independent commission on voting systems will be appointed early to recommend a proportional alternative to the first-past-the-post system.This is now 2008.
175

Calum10,

09/11/2008 10:10:30
The Calman Commission is a Labour led investigation of devolution. The Tories and the LibDems were brought to support it and give it credance. The suspicion has always been that this was always a cynical political exercise by Unionists on behalf of Unionists who were more interested in emasculating the Scottish parliament. Now Gordon Brown has confirmed just that.

It makes Labour out to be a bunch of coniving liars. It makes the Tories and the LibDems look completely stupid. It makes the commissioners look like numpties.

Nearly £1 million has been directly spent on this commission. Probably much more indirectly if you add the costs of consultation. All this money spent just to say "NO".

Well every man and his dog could have told you that before this commission even met.

Lets call a spade a spade here, starting with the commissioners:


Sir Kenneth Calman - Sir fecking idiot
Colin Boyd - Lord fecking idiot
Rani Dhir MBE - fecking idiot
Professor Sir David Edward - fecking idiot
Murray Elder - Labour insider and fecking idiot
Audrey Findlay - fecking idiot
Jamie Lindsay - fecking idiot
John Loughton - fecking idiot
Murdoch MacLennan - fecking idiot
Shonaig Macpherson - fecking idiot
Iain McMillan - BIG fecking idiot
James Selkirk - fecking idiot
Mona Siddiqui - fecking idiot
Matt Smith - fecking idiot
Jim Wallace - political numptie

Gordon Brown - hater of all things Scottish
Wendy Alexander - big mouth numptie
Anabel Goldie - the mad aunt
Nicol Stephen - fecking idiot
Tavish Scott - fecking idiot
Iain Gray - who he?

If I have left anyone out who are associated with the commission I do apologise and offer a blanket description - fecking idiots.

176

brownlie,

09/11/2008 10:12:59
187 nikostratos

Good morning, niko, glad to have you on board to boost the unionist cause with your pithy, positive and pungent remarks.
177

vimto,

09/11/2008 10:15:33
Gordon Brown is doing a first class job for England,it's amazing what a good English wife can do!
178

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 10:17:17
There are some very worrying comments from all sides on this forum, so lets all agree to get some control.

The SNP did not win Glenrothes because they did not deserve to win. We all got cocky and thouht we could walk on water. Of course the people who Voted Labour, let our Nation down, but lets not forget Alex Salmond was so busy at Glenrothes, that he wasnt doing his job of getting better coverage in the media. Where were the attacks on the actions of Brown and New Labour selling our banks down the river. You couldnt have had a better issue other than how it was Brown who made the Problem. Why was the 10 p tax let go, and why didnt the SNP sort out the misinformation on the pensioners services. After all NOT ONE pensioner was disadvantaged financially other than those that were well off and could afford to pay a bit more. There are lists and lists of great things being accomplished by the SNP, but not one mention in the London Controlled Media. STV is almost Nazi'ist about the SNP. They cant stand any thought of Independence. The BBC Bias was right off the wall. Even two halfwitswho attacked Andrew Sachs got a hundred times more coverage. Now is the time for Alex Salmond to start attacking BBC and STV for being undemocratic. Pravda gives more coverage too dissidents than the BBC and STV give the Scottish Government of the SNP.

Now the Herald suddenly produce all these female journalists that we have never heard of, writing rubbish.The Herald destroys free speech, by only opening forums at strange times, and then suddenly removing articles where English Dominated New Labour were getting a touch up. Can we guess that this happened shortly after the Deviant Mandelson and Blairs spin merchant Campbell came back. Campbell openly stated that he changed the information about the iraq war deliberately, to help the attack on Iraq.

Stop this negative knee jerk reactions and start to think more. The Next Election can be won by the SNP here in Scotland, but our Gover
179

GM,

09/11/2008 10:20:07
test
180

tommy M,

scotland 09/11/2008 10:20:34
good people of glenrothes, have a wee look at the oil of scotland website and get back to us.

Boom and bust brown in the light of holding on to a liebour seat with a reduced majority has upped the stakes somewhat - do you think he really believes the Scots can be quashed forever?

Hardly a landslide victory for the liebour party and the headteacher who didn't even know the SNP had increased his school budget. What a wally!
181

GM,

09/11/2008 10:21:02
BTO = Charles Linksaill

There have already been a few unionists exposed (by their own actions) here for using multiple monikers to agree with themselves, but the styles of BTO and CL shown in this thread are by far and away the easiest to spot as coming from the "same person" - lol


I assume he was drunk.
182

brownlie,

09/11/2008 10:21:26
181 Bird of Prey

Sorry, BOP, but Spooks has the video starring Max Mosley and myself - hope you understand.

btw: Were you not on the Calman Commission heavily disguised as Lord James Douglas-Hamilton whose estate is next to yours?
183

The Strategist,

09/11/2008 10:22:49
Bearing in mind that this piece has been co-written by Eddie Barnes I have a feeling that this might well be a wind-up.

However, if it turns out to be accurate then there can be only one sensible reaction and that is a Scottish referendum to determine whether Scots are in favour of boosting Holyrood's powers or not.
184

MoClana,

09/11/2008 10:22:53
# 178 - Happy English, is clearly only happy so long as every other nationality agrees with him and his eejit anglo centric opinions.

You have a shocking ignorance of any thing un brittish sorry English, which is why your reply took you around 30 mins and was 2 lines long

Doonhammer - What apologetic confused nonsense was that? I and thousands of others are not oblijed to celebrate the Brittish army, remember them yes, but wave the Union jack...no!

How proud do you feel to be Brittish today, now that Brown is slapping us silly Scots down again, for getting to big for our boots?
Only confused souls like yourself could adopt duplicate nationalities,the French are French. Irish are Irish, Germans are Germans...Scots are erm....Brittish, why? becuase you just are and its suits Britains AKA Englands needs.


Soar Alba


185

John S,

09/11/2008 10:24:50
After Glenrothes Gordon will still be PM.
Charles Clarke attack on Brown 'the deluded control freak'11 Sep 2006
Eurounion.Gordon Brown is well known as a control freak. May 2007
Money Week.Mr Brown’s a control freak. He hates risk. Oct 08, 2007
Clare Short,"Gordon Brown and I worked closely with each other for a long time and he has always been a control freak and a spinner,",July 11 2008
Mr Darling has twice threatened to quit over “control freak” Mr Brown’s tinkering.July 11,2008
Gordon will still be a control freak.

186

MoClana,

09/11/2008 10:25:21
#Vimto - ....ribena man myself, but hey just you spout your disgust at any thing un Brittish (logic not included)
187

vimto,

09/11/2008 10:26:41
198. The SNP are a third rate political party supported mainly by anti English,anti establishment trolls,why on gods green earth would any scot with half a brain cell want to have them running an independent scotland,you might as well turn yourselves over to mugabi.
188

Ronnie Ray,

Glasgow 09/11/2008 10:27:29
To the people of Glenrothes...at the next general election are you still going to vote new tories when england votes real tories?...do you think a handfull of brown(s) rats will save you when England votes tory again. Glenrothes, like Brown ...you are an embarrassment to scotland!
189

vimto,

09/11/2008 10:30:39
211. Unlike you i am happy to be English AND British,and unlike you i see no conflict in that.
190

vimto,

09/11/2008 10:32:10
213. England will not vote tory,brown is turning the tide and will win.
191

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 10:32:12
37 - and that leader is Macavity Broon ? Oh ma sides !
192

,

09/11/2008 10:33:01
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193

brownlie,

09/11/2008 10:33:26
215 vimto

shades of King Canute???
194

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 10:35:15
Revenge of the North Brits.
Along with carrying compulsory ID cards, we'll be expected to fly Union Flags in oor front gairdens
195

Evan Owen,

Uppergumtree 09/11/2008 10:40:22
Dear Mr Brown

While you are at it, can you please call a referendum to see if the people want to get rid of the Welsh Assembly?

All we need is proof that the cost outweighs any benefits, of which we can see none.

A Voter
196

gus1940,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 10:42:26
Does anybody know of a single member of the general public who has been allowed to present his/her opinions to The Canute Commission?
197

brownlie,

09/11/2008 10:47:45
224 gus1940

Yes - Gordon Brown

223 Bird of Prey

I'll put you in touch with Max

221 Bird of Prey

Was Osward the dummy with Keith Harris? Or was it with Rolf Harris - something suspicious about his songs regarding two little boys and why did he want the kangaroo tied down?
198

Drever,

09/11/2008 10:55:19
english are scared of us scots beacause we are going to be independent there fools,cowards and weaklings.labour cant win the SNP will.We dont like the english around here there pigs.
199

brownlie,

09/11/2008 10:57:42
228 happy english

If there was an English/Scottish referendum regarding English/Scottish independence what do you calculate the result would be and how would you vote?
200

Drever,

09/11/2008 11:05:33
gona stop groning about we scotish people...we are not british we are scotish so you can shut your gob and dont mention it again.Scotland will be indapendant one
day and you will then see who's the *rs hole!
now England their british nonsense can throw up their stupid words and bug off!hope you have a...uh BAD day

201

Hamish Scott,

09/11/2008 11:05:43
"Brown to deny Scots Parliament more powers"

1. With support for further powers running at about 75% in opinion polls he is actually denying Scots self-determination.

2. This will polarise the constitutional alternatives as either the status quo or independence. Opinion polls which include further devolution show that to be the most popular option. In opinion polls with only the two options of the status quo or independence the support for independence doubles. Well done, Mr. Brown.
202

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 11:13:11
Oh dearie me. Haven't we all had that feeling that what we are doing or saying, which seems so right at the time, is just going to have disastrous consequences in the not too distant future?

Something we say in public, or worse still something we write or say on air?

Gordon will be, or should be having one of those moments right now.

Putting the SNP in its place is one thing, putting the people of Scotland in their place is quite another.

This denial of further powers and HBOS are two examples of putting the Scottish Nation in its place.

Not a good idea at any time Gordon but especially not these days.....and after your wee victory in Glenrothes too. Dearie me indeed.

203

Hamish Scott,

09/11/2008 11:17:04
#36
"When Alex goes, the SNP have no one else.
The party is, as they say, over"

I doubt Alex is going anywhere soon, but the SNP have Nicola Sturgeon and John Swinney for starters. Both have led the SNP in Holyrood very effectively. Who do Labour have in Holyrood?
204

Anne, Glasgow,

09/11/2008 11:20:04
Oh! Happy days Gordon has got it wrong, but I didn't expect it to happen so soon. Anyone with a brain would have waited a few months, but this man can't help crowing about being king of the castle ie. Scotland. Makes the Calman Commission look irrelevant and a con to keep the natives quiet. Looking forward to hearing Jim Murphy explain this one who was, by the way, on Tam Cowan's programme yesterday. It was put to Jim that GB on a US programme recently was asked where he came from, and GB said NORTH BRITAIN.
205

,

09/11/2008 11:21:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
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206

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 11:27:36
So Labour win a battle and set themselves up to lose the whole campaign by cheap shots at those rebellious Scots?

May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush
Confound their politics, God save Gordon Brown?

Shows you can fool some of the people all of the time, unfortunately for Brown you can only fool all of the people some of the time.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Won't get fooled again.
207

,

09/11/2008 11:28:03
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208

Jolly,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 11:28:42
#15 What an overactive imagination you have!!
209

Jolly,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 11:29:25
# 238 Well said!!
210

Jolly,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 11:31:25
# 233's comments do more for the unionist parties than any canvassing by politicians ever could!!
211

Media 1,

cape town 09/11/2008 11:35:12
Brown is absolutely correct, the Scottish parliament already has to much power.

There are certain issues that make Brown right in this regard.

1. Scotland, like it or not is part of a union.
2. Within that union, the head office is London.
3. London controls what happens in Scotland because the union agreements say so.
4. Until such times as Scotland is independent, the rules of the union must be adhered to.
5. There can be no move toward independence in government until such times as the people of Scotland have had a chance to decide what THEY want.
6. The SNP must repsect the people of Scotland by allowing the people to make the decision on independence, not SALMOND himself.

When you look at the Salmond approach to Scottish afairs you realise that Salmond is not interested in the "FREEDOM" independence will apparently bring - he is interested in the CONTROL that it will bring. And therein lies that freedom fighting hidden agenda. It is all about power and money, control and rule - It has nothing to do with the people, because if it did, the people would have had their referendum.

212

,

09/11/2008 11:37:07
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213

Ugly George,

09/11/2008 11:42:38
233 Drever
If your post contained any clarity or lucidity and made any sense it might be construed as being offensive.

214

Publius,

London 09/11/2008 11:47:12
Question for Brown.

If Calman recommends that more powers be given to Holyrood, will the UK government accept Calman's report and put his recommendations into effect?
215

DoonhamerA,

09/11/2008 11:47:13
MoClana asks "How proud do you feel to be Brittish (sic) today, now that Brown is slapping us silly Scots down again, for getting to big for our boots?"

I do not think I mentioned pride as opposed to feeling This constant drip of nonsense about Gordon Brown and the Britsih Government doing down Scotland says much about the twisted and resentful minds of the SNP fanatics. Everything is seen through the prism of hatred of all things English or British. What a huge chip these people must have on their shoulder and you can bet that would continue even if Scotland became independent. Failures by Scottish politicians would continue to be blamed on the English for doing us down.

I am concerned to see Government address social and other ills in all parts of the UK and there is not a shred of evidence that any UK Government has gone out of its way to do down Scotland. Salmond would better serve Scotland by using the power won by him last year to do his job as First Minister rather than wasting our money by using his office to behave like an oppostion politician attacking every act and symbol of the UK Government.

Notice Slamond was not at the Cenotaph again. No dount he knows he could not maintain the support of the SNP fanatics if he did. Theres a man of principle.






216

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 11:51:20
238 Bird of Prey, Will Pan what you say

Within the UK we must remember all of those young men and women during WWII who fought for our freedom, not just those from the British Isles, but all of our then Allies and also from the Axis countries and those occupied by them who fought from the shadows in their respective resistance movements.

But why do we only remember the dead?

What about all of those who have given their health, mental and physical, but were, and still are, all too often forgotten or hidden from view at the victory parade, or left to get by on charity when no longer fit for active service?


217

Drever,

09/11/2008 11:53:58
english freaks
218

Arthur Teak ,

Glasgow 09/11/2008 11:54:16
In the end the inevitible is merely delayed, Scotland will be independant and it will take less time than it will for Celtic FCs fans to observe a minute's silence for remembrance Sunday or this rhag to report on their disgusting behaviour, but it will happen. Scotland will be free.
219

Drever,

09/11/2008 11:55:27
enland vs scotland who would win...........du scotland will shatter england
220

P Rayner.,

Latin America. 09/11/2008 11:55:50
Quite why the Welsh and Scots, albeit by trivial percentages, should vote for yet another tranch of self serving politician is beyond me. It was neither necessary or asked for, except by a few as represented on these pages. Being English, British, but living half of each year in south America I can truly appreciate what a wonderful country Britain is. We would do well to ponder what damage would be done to break it.So those who are so full of anti English venom and spite I say better by far you seek professional help to rectify your imbalances. In doing so you´ll better understand life and maybe be better able to form lasting relationships.
221

Drever,

09/11/2008 11:56:29
arthur is right
222

Drever,

09/11/2008 11:57:27
english freaks
223

P Rayner.,

Latin America. 09/11/2008 11:58:02
HAPPY ENGLISH.Where in Kent?
224

,

09/11/2008 11:58:14
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225

,

09/11/2008 11:59:07
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226

Drever,

09/11/2008 11:59:55
freedom to scotland
227

Drever,

09/11/2008 12:00:36
SNP rock labour SUCK
228

Drever,

09/11/2008 12:01:19
scotlands free
229

brownlie,

09/11/2008 12:02:18
235 happy english

Great post, especially "we have learnt to be proud of ourselves and have faith in ourselves it's a good feeling to have".

I should imagine that that sums up, precisely, the feelings of Scottish nationalists and you, obviously, emphasise with them.

230

Hamish Scott,

09/11/2008 12:02:50
#253
"Notice Slamond was not at the Cenotaph again. No dount he knows he could not maintain the support of the SNP fanatics if he did. Theres a man of principle"

If he is not in London he will be attending remembrance service(s) in Scotland. He is, after all,the First Minister of Scotland. I don't know what the current situation is but historically the SNP leader has not been allowed to lay a wreath at the ceremony at the Cenotaph in London.
Most importantly, Remembrance Sunday is for remembering the dead regardless of political belief. Perhaps you could enter into the spirit of the day and refrain from making cheap and misleading political points?
231

brownlie,

09/11/2008 12:04:01
238 Bird of Prey

Completely agree with you - even if you have some dodgy friends.
232

jkr,

Lochwinnoch Greater Glasgow 09/11/2008 12:05:06
The Scottish Parliament is unique. It is the only 'parliament' in the world that does not have proper tax-raising powers. Each state in the USA has far more powers including taxation than Scotland has.
233

Drever,

09/11/2008 12:05:19
i like sctland
234

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 12:08:09
258 the auld anes will also understand what a wonderful country Britain is when they can't afford to heat there hooses this winter.
Never mind, we'll have ID catds to keep us warm.
235

Pilrig.,

Livingston 09/11/2008 12:10:47
BTO 249 - from Broon's raid on private pensions ?
236

Drever,

09/11/2008 12:11:17
labour cant fight for there lifes
237

Hamish Scott,

09/11/2008 12:11:19
#253
#268

Scottish Government press release:

"First Minister Alex Salmond attended a Remembrance Sunday Commemoration Ceremony in Edinburgh today.

The First Minister laid a wreath on behalf of the people of Scotland at the Stone of Remembrance and will attended a service in St Giles Cathedral.

The First Minister said:

"Remembrance Sunday marks an important time of remembrance and reflection. It is a time when we give pause for thought and pay tribute to the many Scottish servicemen and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice in defence of our country. This year has added significance, as we commemorate the 90th anniversary of the end of the Great War.

"It is the sacrifice of all those who have served in the forces which preserved our values and enabled us to enjoy the freedoms which so many of us take for granted today.

"On Remembrance Sunday we acknowledge the continuing bravery and fortitude of our service men and women, and the sacrifices they are willing still to make on our behalf.""
238

Drever,

09/11/2008 12:12:03
if your english your gae
239

vimto,

09/11/2008 12:13:33
238. TOTALLY AGREE,and not forgetting those who are still dying for us.
240

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 09/11/2008 12:13:56
"In the wake of Labour's Glenrothes by-election victory over the SNP, the Prime Minister will argue there are no reasonable grounds for changing Scotland's devolutionary settlement."

I don't think he would be "arguing" this if the SNP had won! This just exposes the whole Calman Commission as a farce, apparently "listening" to the people of Scotland with the response fully worked out before they started. Having been initiated by the redoubtable Wendy what else could we expect from people prepared to break Parliamentary rules and the law.

Although the SNP are not snow-white and still have irritating tendencies to overspend like our English lords and masters, they seemed to offer a far more palatable alternative to Broon and company. So, with a reduced majority Labour still has a diehard set of unthinking voters prepared to put their cross where their maw or paw told them to put it and are prepared to swallow Broon's BS on how he saved the world. Not all constituencies will react this way - especially in England and Wales where he is regarded as a tax-taking overspending buffoon and where it is believed paradoxically that he favours the Scots! Maybe this pronouncement will help to dispel any such notion.

So I wouldn't get the bunting out yet for any "Britishness day" or the like.
241

vimto,

09/11/2008 12:15:36
276.Shouldn't you be doing your homework,you thick scottish troll.
242

Yok Finney,

Scotia Baltica 09/11/2008 12:16:13
-- although i believe the snp and their supporters are evil in intent

Wherever did you get that idea? Perhaps you turned on the tap, drank the water, got into your car, drove along a road and filled her up with petrol. All these facilities are provided by SNP supporters and others.

England, of course, is so pure and blissful, that it hosting any satanic conspiracies is never to be considered.
243

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 12:18:22
279 vomit
Aye, the Scotsman is intended for thick English trolls like you?
244

Warden An' All, Reborn,

09/11/2008 12:19:35
I call on the voters of scotland to follow the example of the liberal and tory voters of glenrothes, club together when elections occur and rid our wee bit of britain of the scum known as the snp. Better still rid us of the gravy train known as the scottish parliament and the bit part actors who run it at our expense. Do we look like we can afford hangers on like msps.
245

vimto,

09/11/2008 12:19:55
Have you ever been to the Norfolk Broads or the Lake District,pure and blissful about sums it up.
246

vimto,

09/11/2008 12:21:14
282. Well said.
247

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 12:22:25
#282 Warden An' All, Reborn

More power to your elbow China, I reckon the SNP could use as many of your contributions as you can manage.
248

vimto,

09/11/2008 12:22:26
281. Who the f--k was talking to you!
249

Jolly,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 12:23:15
# 220 ' in the gairdens'.... you mean, instead of old motor bike engines and beer cans???
250

Drever,

09/11/2008 12:23:18
mesage for vimto

rather a troll than be English like you with a thick head!you pig
251

Warden An' All, Reborn,

09/11/2008 12:24:22
281-livilion-You are on this site due to you being comfortable with what you can understand then are you?
252

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 09/11/2008 12:26:02
What a miserable bunch of Chappies inhabit dear old Scotland, my dad was the same, but only as a result of being caught by the police climbing over the fence at Stirling Albion, and being made to go in and watch the rest of the game.
253

vimto,

09/11/2008 12:26:38
288. Typical brainless scot,all mouth and little else,grow up son.
254

Warden An' All, Reborn,

09/11/2008 12:28:37
285-livilion- Going by what we have seen at glenrothes the snp are going to need as much help as they can get their hands on as they can't seem to do it on their own.
255

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 12:32:27
here is alex with his one man band toot toot ha ha ha

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/cza1361l.jpg
256

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 12:34:00
286 vomit
Feel free to comment away old thing, far be it for a simple soul like myself to point out that flaming away as you do on behalf of the British Unionists is meat and drink to the cause of the SNP.

But why does someone like yourself feel compelled to come onto a Scottish blog, surely the Telegrap is more your line, locals down the Rose and Crown fed up hearing you?
257

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 12:44:15
so good i posted it twice

Here is alex with his one man band toot toot ha ha

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/cza1361l.jpg
258

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 12:51:08
#292 Warden An' All, Reborn

Remember why this by-election was called in the first place?

So you you are comfortable with the inexorable rise in the popularity of Scottish nationalism, whether it be SNP, Labour or Tory coloured.

Typical of the 'Peoples Party', protecting the worker from their bosses, in North Britain and Gordon Brown that the incumbent MP John MacDougall and countless others have died of mesothelioma, while their own party spiked claims for compensation for this fatal work related illness.

Makes you feel kinda all warm inside doesn't it?
259

Micjonger,

09/11/2008 12:59:52
ATTENTION ALL POSTERS

If you want to see a a true representative of SNP and its policies/values (including Independence),then re-read Post 230;Drever.
No wonder the good people of Glenrothes (as in other areas) are turning against SNP.
260

frank mcbride,

lusitania 09/11/2008 13:02:11
#254, DoonhammerA.

Why are you castigating AS for not being at the Cenotaph?

Don't you know that he is not the leasder of the SNP group at Westminster, or are you simply in Campbell/Mandelson mode? Any more smears???
261

The Strategist,

09/11/2008 13:07:08
ICM poll for the Sunday Telegraph suggests that the Conservatives still have a 13% lead over Labour- 43% to 30%, with the Lib Dems on 18% - which the paper says would translate into an 80 seat Commons majority.

Also Jim Murphy... Gordon's Scottish Rep... says this story that "Brown to deny Scots Parliament more powers" isn't the case..
262

Sumlogic,

Scotland 09/11/2008 13:10:03
I can see why and how Labore won Glenrothes; simply reading some of the moronic comments on this page, silly backbiting and childish claptrap.

Lets look at the issues. Once again the ‘people of Scotland’ let themselves down, voting for tired old Labore. The party, never forget, that presided over the biggest financial disaster since the 30's. They were in power and allowed (light touch regulation) the financial sector to get away with what in some cases could be argued as fraud.

Then Gordon Brown, aided by the incredible logic and wisdom of the (generally ignorant) general public, who are very often educated by rags that sell themselves as bona fide news outlets, becomes savour by increasing the national debt to pay for the mistakes that happened on his watch, leaving the billionaires who created this mess untouched and untaxed!

Once again money talks, especially when your selling it to a public who often cant even work out how their (rising) gas bills are calculated, not difficult to con them into a vote. A general public that don’t understand the national debt, or even know in most cases what it is? So they vote for Brown and his incompetent crew…and worse, a vote possibly tainted in some by their conscious or unconscious addiction to drugs, namely alcohol!

The people get the government they deserve by voting or not voting, who’s to Blame, unscrupulous political parasites or the people who were fooled (again) into voting for them?
263

mesmiths,

fife 09/11/2008 13:12:24
Can we expect our national newspapers to stand up for democracy here against what London tells us is best for us- or will they back the sub-prime minister and try and convince us he knows what's right and we're wrong?

I'm hopping this is the unionist fightback we were told to expect. If it is the game is trully over for them.
264

westview,

onwards and upwards 09/11/2008 13:22:55
Brown is just giving a tug on the Labour leash round Scotlands neck.
265

Budgie,

Renfrew 09/11/2008 13:24:24
I suppose the reality is, the voters in Scotland are deciding more and more, to stick with the "Devil You Know".
266

Sumlogic,

Scotland 'but that may change if the UK keeps goin 09/11/2008 13:25:55
Then add into the mix the 'pie and a pint' voter mentality; people who cant read or write passed Primary School level (preferring tabloid style, comic / picture book news rags) being asked to make decisions about the future of a country.

No wonder they simply vote for whoever has the biggest embellished headline in the so-called news paper they read (look at the pictures and captions); news papers who print stories not on the basis of unbiased newsworthiness but on vested interests of their owners, shareholders and advertisers.

Yes the UK Plc is doing just fine and dandy, personal debt at record levels, Government debt rising by the day, fuel bills rising faster than in Europe. It seems that people would rather be sinking in debt under a Union flag than risk possibly being in debt under an independent Scottish flag as long as the bull they are fed comes from a source that’s historically well seasoned for the task, namely Yes’tminster (Westminster).

I salute the Wisdom and sagacity of the Scottish population; they are in a class of their own!
267

vimto,

09/11/2008 13:28:18
296.Is it remotely possible for you to get it through your thick cranium that i am NOT kimba,as previously explained she is my daughter. Oh,and yes, i'm defiantly for real.
268

Semper vigilo,

09/11/2008 13:33:40
Can anyone tell me of ANY new jobs Brown and Co have ever brought to Fife ? Plenty for the London Olympics of course.
269

john z,

edinburgh 09/11/2008 13:36:03
Scotland can no longer afford the luxury of helping england with its mountainous debts. If Scotland does not leave this undemocratic english union, then Scotland will lose big time. Scottish tax payers will have to pay for all the economic mis-management in England.

It is time for Scotland to leave the english union, as there are no benefits and mountainous debts from the failed english economy.

Why does Scotland freely give all its oil and gas to england?? Shouldn't we get paid for it?? If we stay in the union Scotland will never get paid for their oil and gas, so Scotland loses

Times are hard, and Scottish tax payers can no longer afford the luxury of this cumbersome and undemocratic union with england. The glory days of england are over, england is now just a burden. If we stay in the english union, Scottish tax payers lose out.
270

Andrew,

09/11/2008 13:39:43
There are "too many chiefs and not enough clansmen" at Holyrood already!!
271

john z,

edinburgh 09/11/2008 13:43:15
Can Scottish tax payers continue to afford the luxury of the english ambassador, Jim Murphy. This man does nothing for Scotland except stand on the touch lines hurling negative comments. The people of Scotland don't need Jim Murphy, but more to the point they can't afford to waste their taxes on such an under achiever.

Scottish tax payers are losing hand over fist, by paying taxes to London in order that the english government can pay for the english ambassador to Scotland Jim Murphy. Scotland loses from the english union, and can't afford its wasteful ways anymore.

Do Scots really need all the extravegance of the palace of Westminster, or paying for 600 + MP's in england? The english union is a relic of the past and a complete waste of Scottish tax payers money. It is a luxury Scotland can no longer afford.

Times are hard, and Scotland no longer needs this wasteful english union.
272

livilion,

livingston 09/11/2008 13:45:23
Watched the rugby from Murrayfield yesterday and I'm left wondering how Scotland can ever hope to compete with a country of the size, and with the resources, of the likes of New Zealand?
273

Florence,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 13:46:34
253 DOONHAMMER: Of course Alex Salmond wasn't in London. He laid a wreath and attended the Remembrance Service in Edinburgh. As First Minister of Scotland, why would you expect that he would be in London? Dunderhead!
274

Florence,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 13:52:33
Poor Glenn Campbell. Talk about desperation! He attempted to involve the American Ambassador to Britain and two American university gents in a discussion as to how America would react should Scotland ever gain independence hoping, no doubt, for a negative response. Disappointed. They all agreed it was an internal matter and nothing to do with the U.S. Pity he couldn't end the programme on a negative note but he no doubt thought it worth a try.
275

karinxxx,

09/11/2008 13:55:08
This article just proves that it is only when the snp has power will scotland be listened to. One by election victory and labour resorts to type. They will dismiss the views of all scots who want more power for the scottish parliament. Obviously there are some unionists who want more power otherwise why was the callman commission set up?
276

Florence,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 13:55:17
Re comment at 317 - I am referring, of course, to the Sunday Politics programme.
277

karinxxx,

09/11/2008 13:56:35
309 I just notice if you rearrange the letters in vimto it spells vomit.........
278

Sumlogic,

Scotland 09/11/2008 13:57:48
As for Independence you can forget it unless something like the following happens:

SNP produce 'post independence' budget / financial statement (independently examined, validated and peer reviewed) showing exactly how much ‘better off’ the people of Scotland will be; must be in real 'money in your pocket' and/or service level terms...anything else will likely go right over their heads.

SNP, Stop messing with policy that effects people in their freedom to choose, even if that choice involves products that damage health…fags and alcohol. If idiots get drunk and cause problems, find them and deal with them in the strongest possible way, send out a zero tolerance message, build more prisons if necessary, however don’t try and take away peoples booze and fags (drugs), they just wont wear it and it WILL cost votes!

The people of the UK, Scotland in particular need get to grips with exactly how much the National Debt under UK Plc is. Send everyone a mock invoice (print them in the news rags) showing what we (our would-be share) owe as a nation, and how much this has increased. Show how much the interest payments on this debt costs and what could be funded with that money!

Some of the desire to see BOS forcefully and quickly subsumed (assimilated) into Lloyds I believe highlights the need by some Westminster / business parasites to further damage Edinburgh’s financial credentials.

Our Union was bought and paid for; the annulment of that union also will involve money...plain and simple. People are generally selfish and lazy, if Independence meant ‘more for less’, it would be enacted in a heartbeat.
279

Richard,

West Lothian 09/11/2008 14:04:58
"Brown to deny Scots Parliament more powers".

Well that's a vote winner Gogs!

HAHAHAHAHA!
280

Canada,

Canada 09/11/2008 14:27:58
Brown is right. Scots are not fit to govern themselves. A nation of Peter Pansies.
281

scottishcoffindodgerno1,

Tram City 09/11/2008 14:33:31
47,the IMF has a different slant on gordons wonderful world,they say gordons world will go belly up in the next 6 months.Their slant is that gordons world is the worst in the world,and they know what they are talking about.They have shouting for the last 4 years that Gordons world was in dire straights and something needed to be down,but Gordons did not listen because Uncle Gordon knows best,MY BUM
282

brownlie,

09/11/2008 14:34:53
325 Canada

Hundreds of thousands of Canadians would disagree with you.
283

karinxxx,

09/11/2008 14:41:25
ya have to laugh at the unionists one by election win and its back to "we dont care".

carry on i say. all the more votes for the snp.
284

karinxxx,

09/11/2008 14:45:20
oh dont think old am2 is going to be too happy with this.

im quite sure i remmeber him saying he favoured devo max.
285

brownlie,

09/11/2008 14:46:01
328 karinxxx

Are you still converting unionists??

From the Gordon Brown Admiration Society!
286

Canada,

Canada 09/11/2008 14:49:57
Brownlie 327.
Millions of Canadians think you are part of England with less rights than a Canadian province. Manitoba has more independence
287

brownlie,

09/11/2008 14:52:50
332 Canada

Millions of Canadians have Scottish ancestry - who were forced off their lands with the collusion of the British Government. They will be well aware of the situation in Scotland.
288

Drever,

09/11/2008 14:52:59
english people are thick head trolls
289

Drever,

09/11/2008 14:55:05
vimto is a bas......
290

,

09/11/2008 15:04:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
291

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 15:09:30
#328 karinxxx

yes well Karin many more vote winning elections such as Glenrothes and the snp will soon be back into the dustbin of history.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/nov/08/alex-salmond-glenrothes-byelections


"The significance of the setback to the SNP was underlined by Labour victories in two council byelections elsewhere yesterday, particularly in the nationalist stronghold of Baillieston in Glasgow East, where the SNP had overturned a 13,500-Labour majority at the byelection in July."
292

,

09/11/2008 15:10:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
293

Canada,

Canada 09/11/2008 15:12:48
333 Brownlie
Yes. Strange the father of Canadian independence was a Scot from Glasgow. What's good enough for the colonies is not good enough for North Britain. Brown is right.
294

vimto,

09/11/2008 15:17:05
Karinxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. You need that many x's as you are not fit for anythink except b-ll sh---ing
295

vimto,

09/11/2008 15:22:50
339. Keep going like this sonny and i'll have you banged up to rights.
296

brownlie,

09/11/2008 15:22:59
341 vimto

When are you going to morph back to kimba?????
297

mr angry,

ayrshire 09/11/2008 15:25:49
17. Charles Linkmissing , you dolt , its lose not loose , as per you have a screw loose and constantly post garbage on these comments.
298

­­,

­†††††† ‡‡‡ ††† ‡‡‡ ††††††, 09/11/2008 15:25:57
Devo Max R.I.P.

The last line of the chorus is for your loved ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD4iQs3rym4
299

brownlie,

09/11/2008 15:27:52
340 Canada

You were doing well up until your last sentence.
300

Nikostratos,,

09/11/2008 15:28:18
#328
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2466313.0.0.php?act=complaint&cid=1970526



Meanwhile, Labour held on to the ward of Baillieston on Glasgow City Council. Andy Muir was elected in yesterday's council by-election. He won 2027 votes, beating SNP candidate David Cassidy by 230 votes. Turnout at the Baillieston by-election was 21%.

Labour also won a council by-election in Edinburgh, with candidate Cammy Day taking the Forth seat with 2013 votes, ahead of George Gordon for the SNP who polled 1841. Iain McGill came third for the Tories on 1180.
301

mr angry,

ayrshire 09/11/2008 15:28:31
27. You need to learn to count , how can labour be doing well in the polls when they are 13% behind the Tories, what a turnip.
302

vimto,

09/11/2008 15:29:16
344. Well,you and Hoots will be pleased to know kimba is coming home for christmas,but i'm honestly not her,just her very proud mother. mother.
303

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 09/11/2008 15:46:05
What a vile and loathsome maggot. Traitor is too good a word for Broon.
304

puskas,

East kilbride 09/11/2008 16:05:53
Mr Salmond Scotlands First Minister trusted the Fifers and my god what a mistake.

All the evidence in politics was their in front of the Glenrothes folk..
Labour lies eventually won.

7,000 postal votes was uncanny / unusual for this small part of Scotland.

Does any poster have the vote/split on the ballot.
and .................the vote/split within the postal vote
This deserves scrutiny .

Can we get this info, and where...
Normally percentages would be similar.
305

yoric,

09/11/2008 16:11:37
If you transfer more powers from Westminster to Holyrood, then why do we need Scottish members in the Westminster Parliament.

Apart from voting on legislation that dosen't apply anyway in Scotland, what do they do?
306

Scimitar1,

Alba 09/11/2008 16:13:28
The less powers given the less damage Chairman Salmond & Co could inflict on our nation. For once Brown is right on this one.
307

Warden An' All, Reborn,

09/11/2008 16:14:15
297-livilion- I would hardly call grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory an inexorable rise in popularity livilion, and where is this popular nationalism in the labour and tory parties. It sounds to me as if you suffer from delusions of your own infallibility, I’d bet you were sure the glenrothes seat was won by the snp too.

315-livilion-So that was supposed to be a rugby game yesterday, and that was me thinking it was a warm-up session for the kiwis. How are Scotland meant to play a game they are twenty years behind the time in.
308

The Sprucer,

09/11/2008 16:15:34

He will pay for this at the next election.
309

John2,

09/11/2008 16:17:16
Hi 333. And I thought the wicked Highland Chiefs betrayed their clans!
310

Warden An' All, Reborn,

09/11/2008 16:18:24
297-livilion- I would hardly call grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory an inexorable rise in popularity livilion, and where is this popular nationalism in the labour and tory parties. It sounds to me as if you suffer from delusions of your own infallibility, I’d bet you were sure the glenrothes seat was won by the snp too.







315-livilion-So that was supposed to be a rugby game yesterday, and that was me thinking it was a warm-up session for the kiwis. How are Scotland meant to play a game they are twenty years behind the time in.
311

Alan B,

09/11/2008 16:21:00
Much of labour did not believe in devolution. They simply saw it as a means of power which they now lost and hence are now regretting it. And also as way of stopping independence.

A party that brings in devolution to stop something else rather than because it believes in the concept of devolution is always going to create a mess like it has with the scottish parliament and going to be all over the place about what the scottish parliament actually is for when political winds blow.

The real problem for labour. If it believed in the concept of devolution ie devolving power so that decisions are taken at a scottish level and not in the highly centralised uk system by london where decisions are not take with scottish interest at the heart and where decisions are often taken with little democratic accountability, then it would have no option but to significantly devolve more.

For instance labour have allowed a weak Welsh assembly to call its exec government but will not let the much more powerful scottish exec which has full legislative powers officially call itself government. (despite a former labour FM calling for it) Why? Because it does not want the parliament to appear powerful. It is gross immaturity.

With its own commission into westminsters mishandling of last yrs sp election. It recommended the scottish parliament take responsibility for its own election. Bizzarly labour have again refused. Why? Is there any good reason why having Westmisnter with little political accountability controlling a scottish election. No.

As such with such trivial examples why would labour set up Calman. Again it was something to stop independence and not to really deal with improved governance for Scotland.

The people of scotland should turn against labour a party with so much contempt for it and vote for anyone but labour.
312

Alan B,

09/11/2008 16:24:49
#Scimitar1

"The less powers given the less damage Chairman Salmond & Co could inflict on our nation. For once Brown is right on this one."

You have so much contempt for Scotland. The reason Salmond and Co are in government now is becuase Scotland rightly or wrongly voted them in. Becuase Scotland got tired of 10yrs of labour failure.

So your statement is really saying do not give scots too much power as they would make a mess with and we should let our masters in England govern us. A pretty nasty contempt for scotland.

If we are going to have a union it should be becuase it is in all the countries of the uk interest. Not becuase of a contempt for scotland and some colonial/imperial mentality that you exhibit.
313

scottish person,

paisley 09/11/2008 16:29:49
Puskas said-7,000 postal votes was uncanny / unusual for this small part of Scotland. He forgot to add that they are too thick to use postal votes.I cannot believe that anyone could vote for Lindsay Roy, he is obviously a yes man.
I hope the people of Fife are happy now they have subjected their fellow Scots to more lying and abuse from Westmidden
314

brownlie,

09/11/2008 16:30:33
358 John2

Hello John,

I suggest you check your history. Check for example the Aberdeenshire based "gentleman" who owned Uist and Benbecula. He offered to clear them of their inhabitants and turn them into a prison colony to save the Government transportation costs to Australia.

Land-owners, with the help of the British army, cleared individuals off their land, often burning their houses so that they could not return.
315

vimto,

09/11/2008 16:38:37
Stop the bellyacheing,westminster will be ruling scotland for many a long year yet,
316

brownlie,

09/11/2008 16:40:24
366 vimto

What do you think of toilet-cleaners?
317

puskas,

East kilbride 09/11/2008 16:52:12
Mr Salmond, First Minister for the Scottish people is a politition that we can trust %100.. Lets have no doubt a Scot who values our people / future and has given his life wholeheartilly for the cause .....
"Independence"
Glenrothes;
All nationalists thought we had a good chance of winning this seat.Never over confident but the barrage of lies from the Labour party from top to bottom was never challenged properly.
We had to much confidence in the constituancy and their intellect in their understanding of the true facts.
Nationalist have to attack the blatant lies of the unionists inparticulary Labour's lies / deceit.

In my previous post I mention the percentage vote per party with the ballot and postal vote. I understand that unusual voter split has taken place.
Due to the Labour Parties previous guilt in England I believe these percentages of votes per party should be highlighted in the media. Transparency as Mr Murphy (eejit) has said.
At the end of the day the voters of Glenrothes, Fife allied themselves with lies and dismissed the truth whether illegal or not..

The truth and honesty of the SNP and Alex Salmond will prevail in the long term without a shadow of doubt...

Remember only one postal voter with a conscience need declare interferance from the Labour party to highlight the skullduggery most probably used in the postal vote.

My best wishes in the future to the SNP during future elections as the learning process goes forward to independence.

It doesn't give me great pleasure but the unionist eejits that post submissions on this board are certainly no advert on intellectual debate. They show others in different continents how lacking we are in education.
Fellow nationalist/comrades/friends the broad church that we are why encourage eejits in the unionist ranks.
Please ingnore the utter tripe and lies that comes forth from brain to fingertip.

Vote nationalist .......... Independence.


318

Fairfife,

Fife 09/11/2008 16:58:47
#150 We are responsible for ourselves

"Care charges. The £11 an hour care charge is applied in 30 out of 32 councils across Scotland. Labour Glasgow City council charges £16.50 an hour.

The 4% of those affected in Fife with the £11 charge pay a maximum of £90 a week for care packages in many cases costing over £3000 a week. e.g. a young quadraplegic requiring constant 24 hour a day care will only pay £90 from his benefits.

NOBODY OVER 65 PAYS FOR PERSONAL CARE."


#150. (Late in the day perhaps!) Just as well YOU are only responsible for yourself with the incorrect figures you are quoting re care charges of 30 of the 32 Councils.
I suppose the 2 you didn't mention were Falkirk and Shetland where personal care is free!!
Could I please put you right on some charges by other councils.
Yes Glasgow may charge £16.50, but according to Fife Councils own information Aberdeenshire charge £8.12 per hour, Argyll and Bute £9.75 per hour, City of Edinburgh £9 per hour, East Ayrshire £9.25 per hour (capped at £72 per week), Midlothian £7.80 per hour (capped at £45per week), Scottish Borders £11.60per hour (capped at £11 per week), South Lanarkshire £9.89 (capped at £14 per week).
So where firstly you got that Fife Charged £11 and charged up to a maximum of £90 a week is utter rubbish.
And secondly that 30 of the 32 Councils charged £11 per hour is just again not true.

MAY I ALSO REMIND YOU THAT IT WAS LABOUR WHO BROUGHT IN FREE PERSONAL CARE FOR THE OVER 65'S!!

This issue illustrates just how unjust the fact that disabled under 65 are having to pay for personal care, and the elderly and disabled are being charged these figures for home care.





319

Morry,

ScotlandforEver 09/11/2008 17:17:34
No big surprise there, Brown and co; have big plans for themselves, Scotland is not included.
320

Publius,

London 09/11/2008 17:20:35
Brown is very silly if he thinks that Glenrothes proves anything about devolution.

The only thing that did emerge clearly from Glenrothes is that the LibDems are slipping very badly. Fourth in Glasgow East. Now fourth in Glenrothes. LibDem voters are melting away. Expect fewer LibDem MPs 2010 and many fewer LibDem MSPs and councillors in 2011.
321

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2008 17:31:11
376
So long you don't mention the wra.
322

Fairfife,

Fife 09/11/2008 18:00:04
#375 Col.BlimpIV

Col BlimpIV I was answering #143 incorrect information regarding Home Care charges in Scotland.
As to praising the Labour Party, credit where credit is due.
I will sing the praises of any party that extends free personal care to under 65's as was recommended in the Sutherland report.
The reason care has been an issue in this by-election is because you cannot on one hand say means testing for personal care under 65 is acceptable, as Fife Council's SNP lead Administration has been doing, and then for the same party to be promising free prescriptions, etc not subject to means testing.
This has to be hypocritical, and cannot expect to gain respect.
It seems the people of Fife can see this, if others cannot.
323

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2008 18:05:54
381
Death by strangulation?

You went to a hard school.

Hang'em High?
324

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 09/11/2008 18:17:28
Gordy Broon as well as all other parliamentarians would do well to consider the full proposals due to be released in the Calman Commission report before knee jerking after the Glenrothes result.

If we stand united against the seperatists then we will win the arguments on the merits that devolution is the right way forward not only for Scotland, Wales, N'Ireland, but also for England who will eventually see the light. Greater devolved powers within the framework of the United Kingdom is both a sensible and a democratic way of trusting people to make the sensible choices to match their more local needs on health, education etc. plus local taxation that does require to be included in order to achieve greater fiscal autonomy.

I firmly believe this is what the vast majority of our population want and this is what Calman can deliver.
325

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/11/2008 18:45:38
Smacks of premature triumphalism to me. Let's wait and see what happens.

In the meantime, I was thinking about a Waldorf and Statler of the month award (them 2 gits from the Muppets).

At the moment, my proposals would be any 2 from BTO, Charles Linskaill, Rufus T Firefly and sm753.

Unionists can think of their own awards.
326

Fairfife,

Fife 09/11/2008 18:53:30
#383 Col. BlimpIV

Thank you for that explanation and clarifying exactly how free personal care for the over 65 actually came about.
I had heard that it had been a Lib/Dem idea and then put through by Labour, but I didn't know the detail, thank you.
It is important to have the facts correct, and that is what is frustrating about all the misinformation that goes on, because it doesn't give people the correct and full picture.



327

English Bob,

England 09/11/2008 19:01:07
A man so bent he can't even honour an oath made to his countrymen.
328

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 09/11/2008 19:05:35
392, ColB. I was thinking more in terms of pairs of posters who sit up there and ridicule everything. You get the different pairings at different times of the day.

Sometimes they seem to be there all day and pair up with someone else. But they always seem to work in tandem for emphasis. And it's the same old tripe everytime.

329

puskas,

East kilbride 09/11/2008 19:12:20
No371,
Pass one test and fail the others.

You went on to prove the point....
330

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2008 19:17:17
392
Col, whenever Charles posts, I always think of Hubert T. Farnsworth.

Then along comes BW with his red waistcoat and mask.
331

Edward,

09/11/2008 19:20:16
I have just realised why the BBC's Robert Peston is so bias towards Labour, as well as getting his 'exclusive leaks' directly from Mr & Mrs Ed Balls
Robert Peston is the son of economist and later Labour peer Maurice Peston, Baron Peston of Mile End and his NHS-employee wife
332

puskas,

East kilbride 09/11/2008 19:24:13
No370

Hi Col.

Master Mariner sunk without trace?

May be he has resurfaced on the Herald "mariner" .
similar in style.

On the main part of your post Col regards Postal/Proxy posts. Labour activists have for some time targeted the old and infirm.
It is no coincidence that the the issue of care and the cost became a major player.

I have read many of your previous posts. First class.
333

brownlie,

09/11/2008 19:28:18
I suspect that it is a deliberate ploy by Brown in appearing to take a hard-line on concessions to the Scottish Parliament. He will, later on, make a minor concession and the forelock-tuggers will genuflect in gratitude for his magnanimity.
334

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2008 19:31:55
400
Brownlie.

You think it's the forelock they tug when genuflecting in front of Broon?
335

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 09/11/2008 19:34:31
-- in real 'money in your pocket'

"The bank hath benefit of interest on all moneys which it creates out of nothing."

William Paterson, co-founder of the Bank of England, c1694

Most of us have to earn some real money (which was 'created out of nothing') as means of exchange. Meanwhile the value of houses wasn't going through the roof, it was the value of money sinking through the floor.

It's all a matter of confidence. We leave it to the Supreme Leader (Gordon Brown) to clunk his fist and money will magically appear. He sees money as a liquid which only manifests in the City of London and can be 'poured' into the Economy. In the real world, you carefully cost and schedule major construction projects. But New Labour can keep pouring money into leaky banks like there's no tommorow and do a rain dance in Glenrothes.

The British Association for Monetary Reform is doing its best TO MAKE PEOPLE THINK. Stands Scotland where it should?
336

brownlie,

09/11/2008 19:38:09
401 Conan

I'm not an expert on tugging. You could try Rufus.
337

The Genùine Mario Antoinette,

09/11/2008 19:46:49
Come, come now, brownlie! You are too modest!


I believe for every drop of rain that falls a flower grows

I believe that somewhere in the darkest night a candle glows

I believe for everyone who goes astray someone will come to show the way

I believe, I believe



I believe above the storm the smallest prayer will still be heard

I believe that someone in the great somewhere hears every word

Every time I hear a newborn baby cry or touch a leaf or see the sky

Then I know why I believe



Every time I hear a newborn baby cry or touch a leaf or see the sky

Then I know why I believe
338

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2008 19:46:51
403
Aye, he loves the one eyed monster.

And Broon.
339

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2008 19:50:02
404
More Bachelors?
340

Conan the Librarian™,

09/11/2008 20:02:25
409
Good Evening Spook.

My browser is crashing every five minutes...
341

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 09/11/2008 20:11:52
-- There has to be some sympathy for the argument that, given recessions, terrorism, climate change etc etc, "now is not the time".

As you've spoken for the PPFDBA (the political party for doing as little as possible), sympathy is out there somewhere.
342

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 20:20:54

Col. Blimp­IV* ~392,

Less of the "old gits"! :)

Conan ~410,

Think it is this site, dead slow this evening, maybe it feels the cold weather, and cant afford the heating bills.


343

Robert Burns,

Ocean Beach, San Diego, California, U.S.A. 09/11/2008 20:28:22
I'm sorry to learn now that the devolution debates at about the time of Alex's election were waged on Labour sands that have shifted from accommodation to "stay the course". Since Labour cannot be trusted with accommodation you need succession. And, if the U.S.A's experience with the Bush regime is any guide, Labour will suffer from your coming economic malaise.
344

karinxxx,

09/11/2008 20:36:23
422 jeez spook i think he had illegitimate weans in every toon in scotland.
345

brownlie,

09/11/2008 20:42:01
412 sm753

to wit, (to woo)?? Must admit, wooing appeals better than tugging!


416 The Spook in Sunshine

Hail, Spooks,

What a rotten week, Snp, Hibs and Scotland Rugby team - but at least I didn't desecrate poor Bird's sofa!

What is this M&S - what wrong with Aldi??
346

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 20:49:57


The Spook in Leith ~420,

"blueberry muffins", making oneself fat are we?
347

brownlie,

09/11/2008 20:54:40
427 Charles

Good luck on the home front, Chaz.
348

brownlie,

09/11/2008 20:56:02
428 The Spook

Beware of the wolves in sheep's clothing in Elgin. Been there, done that!! (not the sheep).
349

Maury D,

Laguna Hills 09/11/2008 21:05:38
Looks like your Brown is to Scots like our Obama is to Republicans.... good luck!!!
350

brownlie,

09/11/2008 21:08:26
433 The Spook

Forgot to tell you I've stuck your picture on my wall-safe - that should scare any potential burglars. Did you collect much at Halloween?
351

gloop,

09/11/2008 21:08:30
Goodbye To All That by Robert Graves



'I had expected him [Captain Dunn] to be a middle-aged man with a breastful of medals, with whom I would have to be formal; but Dunn was actually two months younger than myself. He was one of the fellowship of 'only survivors.' Captain Miller of the Black Watch in the same division was another. Miller had only escaped from the Rue du Bois massacre by swimming down a flooded trench. He has carried on his surviving trade ever since. Only survivors have great reputations. Miller used to be pointed at in the streets when the battalion was back in reserve billets. 'See that fellow. That's Jock Miller. Out from the start and hasn't got it yet.'
352

puskas,

East kilbride 09/11/2008 21:14:11
No 407.

I know you didn't. You and your placemen are, and well you know it..
You show nothing in debate regards this undemocratic union.
Mischievous postings with nothing to offer.

Now thats why you are an " EEJIT "





353

puskas,

East kilbride 09/11/2008 21:21:04
This might be a big mistake by Brown. Hopefully.


Lets wait and see the wording..

The Calmon report seems to be redundant although not completed..
354

brownlie,

09/11/2008 21:24:43
441 The Spook

At Halloween did you come across a distinguished gentleman in a Colonel's uniform flogging old BOS fivers? He was last heard of isolating an infected sector - the dirty devil!
355

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 09/11/2008 22:38:52
SM753 doesn't run a brothel and supply placemen.
356

Tom R,

09/11/2008 23:24:45
I find it laughable that people accuse Alex Salmond of arrogance-he can't hold a candle to this chap Brown!
357

Tom R,

09/11/2008 23:41:21
#338 Nikostratos

You quote- "The significance of the setback to the SNP was underlined by Labour victories in two council byelections elsewhere yesterday, particularly in the nationalist stronghold of Baillieston in Glasgow East, where the SNP had overturned a 13,500-Labour majority at the byelection in July."

I urge you to realise that the 2 council elections in Scotland on 6 November, although won by Labour, were swings to the SNP-these are swings relative to the date of the SNP victory in 2007 when the SNP won the most council seats in Scotland, not just the most seats in Holyrood.

I'd be delighted with such results next time round which would result in an even bigger triumph for the SNP.

358

Tom R,

09/11/2008 23:51:23
#253 Doonhamer A

You say "Notice Slamond was not at the Cenotaph again. No dount he knows he could not maintain the support of the SNP fanatics if he did. Theres a man of principle."

How dare you imply that SNP supporters do not remember their dead of many wars with as much pride as you presumably do.

For your information Alex Salmond was effectively NOT ALLOWED to attend the the Cenotaph meeting in London today. This is because of the pettiness of the British Goverment which means that the SNP share year about with Plaid Cymru the right to lay a wreath.

An apology would be in order, don't you think?

359

morris,

Edinburgh 09/11/2008 23:53:00
Two facts remain and will not go away.

England wants Labour and Brown OUT.He is finished therefore.

What England wants England gets!

The problem is what England wants Scotland gets also.

The solution is clear enough.

Leave the United Kingdom...

The SNP vote continues to rise as a general trend and is stronger now than its ever been in some parts of Scotland.
It WILL NOT GO AWAY, it will fluctuate certainly, but anyone who has studied political history will recognise that parties do not achieve the level of support of the SNP and subsequently fail. They are past the point of not delivering,The question is when.After Cameron wins it all goes belly up for Labour.The fact that they have to import activists to shore up their reducing activists here in Scotland is a symptom of a party who are washed up.

Even the village idiots will realise this soon.

The SNP have already won . Its just not official yet. Glasgow East was a sign of what can and will happen easily.

When Labour are reduced to rejoicing over a defeat followed by a reduced majority the games up !
The financial crisis helped Labour and the council arguments which they falsified.That's temporary and will become common knowledge just as McCrone did.
Politics is not about the art of deception which Labour employ.Its about representation of people and their views. The day of reckoning draws ever closer.
Enjoy what you can Unionists. Your days are numbered.
360

chris 1286,

on this planet unlike some folk 10/11/2008 00:54:46
question. independence WHY? to achieve what. if you want it that much take up arms and fight for it instead of gibbering on hear.
I am 100% scottish and always will be . i dont have to be independant to be proud of it
any way if we give to much control to the muppets some of you will be begging what would be left of the UK to take ye back.
361

TWC,

Ayrshire 10/11/2008 11:19:49
456 chris 1286,
I don't care about Independence but I don't see anybody else who got Independence asking to come back.

We do need Full Fiscal Autonomy otherwise it is impossible to get the best for Scotland. We should collect ALL our own revenues and pay a fair amount of that to Westminster treasury.
That means that since England are subsidising us we'll have a wee bit less to live on but that's ok.
Why don't the Treasury agree to this?
362

livilion,

livingston 11/11/2008 00:49:40
#456 chris 1286
independence WHY?
Well would you hand over your paypoke to your next door neighbour and ask him to run your house and look after your wife and weans?
Isn't that what Scotland has been doing?

As for fighting and giving control to the muppets, it's been tried in Ulster and as many other places, personally I could see that kind of caper far enough.

No, all we have to do is overcome the systemic brainwashing of centuries that us Scots are somehow uniquely in the world incapable of running their own affairs and vote for the change.

 

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