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Big Glenrothes by-election win for Labour rocks Nationalists

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Published Date: 07 November 2008
LABOUR delivered an emphatic victory over the SNP in the Glenrothes by-election early this morning, giving a massive fillip to Gordon Brown and his attempts to reassert his party's authority throughout the country.
Lindsay Roy, the Labour candidate, was declared the winner at 12:45am, beating Peter Grant, his SNP rival, by 6,737 votes – a far greater majority than even the Labour Party had expected.

Mr Roy's win gives the first serious indication of a recovery in Labour's political fortunes in Scotland since last year's Holyrood elections.

In his victory speech, Mr Roy credited his achievement to the Prime Minister. He said: "With Gordon Brown, Britain is strong. With Gordon Brown, Labour has won here in Glenrothes and Central Fife."

The result represents a major blow to the SNP. Labour was defending a 10,664 majority in Glenrothes but, because of the SNP's success in Glasgow East and Labour's deep unpopularity across the UK, the Nationalists had been expected to win this by-election.

But despite achieving a 5 per cent swing in the vote, the "political earthquake" to rival Glasgow East predicted by Alex Salmond, the SNP leader and First Minister – who wagered his own money on victory – never appeared. Instead, it is Mr Brown who is celebrating. The Prime Minister had gambled himself, by investing his own political credibility in a Labour victory.

A source close to Mr Brown told The Scotsman last night: "Given how confident the SNP have been, saying 'Yes we can win and yes we will win', it shows how out of touch they are with what's happening on the ground.

"We have been working very hard to do what we can to help people through these difficult economic times. It seems to have hit home."

Mr Brown is expected to make a statement on the win today.

David Cameron, the leader of the Conservative Party, who is in Glasgow, no doubt had hoped to underscore a Labour defeat; however he will now have to concede that the "Brown bounce" could still hamper his ascent to No10.

Mr Brown visited the constituency twice to campaign. In doing so, he not only broke the convention that prime ministers do not campaign in by- elections, but also tied his party's fortunes to his own.

Had Labour lost, his own authority would have been undermined as he had chosen to lead the Labour effort from the front. But this victory makes his political judgment look inspired and his interventions decisive.

In national terms, the win will secure Mr Brown's leadership for the foreseeable future, providing the sort of electoral turnaround that no-one expected just a few weeks ago, when he was fighting for his political career.

Labour managers celebrated in Glenrothes early this morning, convinced that the "Brown bounce", which began with his handling of the global economic crisis, had helped retain this seat and prevent it from falling into SNP hands. When the result was announced, to cheers and shouts of joy from Labour activists in the Fife Institute in Glenrothes, it was clear that, as expected, this by-election had come down to a straight contest between Labour and the SNP.

Labour's Mr Roy won 19,946 votes, 55.1 per cent of the total cast, with the SNP's Mr Grant getting 13,209 votes, 36.5 per cent of those cast.

Privately, SNP sources admit that they were very close to guessing their support, within just 140 or so votes. But they had underestimated how the votes would fall to the other parties, particularly Labour, which benefited from a bigger than expected turn out.

"Another lesson we have learned, unfortunately, is that negative campaigning works. Lindsay Roy has been going out there saying that we have cut school budgets, when we have actually poured £25 million in."

Peter Grant, the SNP candidate who had been expected to win until a few hours before the polls closed, praised his team as the "most positive and hard working" of any.

He said the SNP had still made significant progress in reducing Labour's majority.

The Tories were third, with 1,381 votes (3.8 per cent) with the Lib Dems fourth , with 947 votes (2.6 per cent). Both parties lost their deposits. Turnout was disappointing for a contest that had attracted such intense media attention; only 52.37 per cent of the local electorate voted in the grey and damp conditions yesterday.

Sir Menzies Campbell, the former Lib Dem leader whose seat neighbours Glenrothes, said: "Smart Alec has had his comeuppance. Once again, an extravagant prediction from Mr Salmond has proved worthless. This is a personal achievement for the Prime Minister."

Harry Wills, the Liberal Democrat candidate who was beaten into fourth place said: "The SNP juggernaut has been stopped in its tracks. Alex Salmond promised us an earthquake but by November the 5th and 6th, it has turned into a damp squib."

Maurice Golden, the Tory candidate, said: "It is clear that people are rejecting Alex Salmond. The bubble has well and truly burst." Despite losing his deposit, he added that he was "delighted" to have beaten the Lib Dems. "We fought a positive campaign and third is a fantastic result for us. Scottish politics is a three-horse race."

He also praised Mr Roy as a "genuine maverick" and added that his victory had been one for "unity and the United Kingdom" adding that pushing the Lib Dems into fourth place showed "Scottish politics is increasingly a three horse race."

John Park, a Labour MP and one of the party's campaign managers, said: "I think Gordon Brown's intervention in this campaign was vitally important: he cares about the community." The Prime Minister's own constituency, Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, neighbours the Glenrothes seat.

The by-election was caused by the death of the Labour MP, John MacDougall, in the summer, after a long battle with cancer. He was a well-liked and respected MP and a good friend of the Prime Minister.

In normal circumstances, that background, plus his sizeable majority in a traditional Labour area, should have been enough for the party to be confident it could retain the seat.

However, following the SNP's "political earthquake" in winning Glasgow East in July, combined with Labour's deep unpopularity through the late summer and early autumn, the SNP went into the contest as clear favourites.

The odds on a Labour revival and victory shortened throughout the campaign as Mr Brown's work in securing global agreement for a worldwide bank rescue package began to shore up the party's vote.

By the time the Prime Minister visited the constituency for the second time, a week ago, Labour had closed the gap to such an extent that bookmakers refused to pick a favourite – tying the SNP and Labour on odds of 5/6 going into the final week.

But over the last weekend, when the SNP brought in an extraordinary 1,200 activists to the constituency, the Nationalists pulled ahead once more, allowing Mr Salmond to be so confident that he bet on Mr Grant's success.

A key plank of Labour's campaign was to rail against care charges imposed by the SNP Fife Council. The party claimed the ill and elderly were being penalised as home care costs in Fife had risen from £4 a week for pensioners and vulnerable people to £11 an hour under the SNP/Lib Dem council.

This issue was again raised by Mr Roy in his victory speech, aware of how important it had been for him on the doorsteps. He said: "The charges and cuts to elderly and disabled from the SNP council must stop now; so must the cuts in school budgets. This is the message we have heard from the people of Glenrothes."

Labour was widely credited for running a good campaign and winning the media "airwaves war", but the SNP's strength of support on the streets, combined with a solid campaigning machine, was believed by many to be enough to see the Nationalists to victory.

However, it will now be Mr Roy, not Mr Grant, who heads to Westminster as Scotland's newest MP in the coming days.


Analysis: PM slams the brakes on Salmond's momentum

In pictures: Scenes from the Fife Institute in Glenrothes

Gerri Peev's by-election blog


The full article contains 1390 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 01:58:20
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Poor Peter Grant never stood a chance.

Alex Salmonds ego took over, and people never saw what Peter could offer.

The SNP need to realise that the electorate can see through Salmond now.
2

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 01:59:14
Hey Nevsky, remember this you loser??

163
Nevsky,
Moscow 06/11/2008 10:11:29
157 Yeah 1#

"Wonder why Labour have not revived the 'things can only get better' tune for their campain? After all they can't get any worse really can they?"

HAHAHAHAHA
3

Lianachan,

Highlands 07/11/2008 01:59:43
We should run a book on how long it will take Rufus to appear here to berate those who do not share his political views.
4

Lianachan,

Highlands 07/11/2008 02:00:00
#3 Damn, I was too slow!
5

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 02:00:11
Hey Spook remember this??????

The Spook in Leith,
06/11/2008 09:42:11
Stewart Hosie has just been on Newsnight saying that the SNP has had more promise of support than it did in Glasgow East.

"Another indicator was Alex Salmond's mood this afternoon. The FM knows how to turn on the charm when he wants to. For all the accusations of bluster, his confidence today seemed genuine. He was a man at ease with his destiny.

ooer i say, im confident of a win as well."

The SNP are like Hibs.

A bunch of losers.
6

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 02:01:27
Hey connaughtboy,do people call you Mystic Meg?

connaughtboy,
stonehaven 03/11/2008 02:42:27
"I see that the bookie odds are moving in favour of the SNP again. I predict a majority of 2,000 in Glenrothes. The Labour campaign has been so full of negativity, they deserve everything coming to them !"

Do you have this Saturdays lottery numbers?
7

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 02:02:54
Mr Roy will now manage to sort out the local busses and fix the outstanding deficit that the previous Labour council left behind in the social work department.
8

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 02:02:58
Hey Traquir, remember this you loser?

Traquir , Alba,
03/11/2008 03:09:44
So 1200 SNP activists, a fantastic achievement showing
the great energy and passion behind
the nationalist campaign.

Just shows you that energy and passion are not enough eh????

It was a fantastic achievement though. YEAH RIGHT
9

Alfred Winkleburg,

07/11/2008 02:04:11
There we go, an SNP stalker gets half of the comments deleted. Freedom of speech for the SNP goes only as far as it suits them.
10

Dave B,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 02:04:23
Disappointing result for Scotland.
5% swing from labour isn't good enough in these old labour seats.
The economic fear factor benefits labour, unlike the SNP which thrives on optimism.
11

Jock MacSprog,

07/11/2008 02:07:37
Nationalism is DEAD in Scotland. They just managed to sqeek into a slim majority and then arrogantly strutted around talking about a mandate. There wasnt one, never has been and never will be. The Scottish people got a wee taste of what life under the Nats would be like and dont like it. See you next century.
12

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 02:09:09
Exactly Jock.

Independence is a busted flush!

RIP Independence.

The unfair and discredited SNP.
13

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 02:10:22
Is Salmond going to refund all the losing SNP £10 bets that he encouraged his followers to place?

Seems a bit off to me for a First minister to encourage people to gamble.
14

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07/11/2008 02:15:27
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07/11/2008 02:23:51
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07/11/2008 02:24:49
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07/11/2008 02:25:40
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07/11/2008 02:33:37
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07/11/2008 02:37:42
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20

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 02:42:37
What is interesting about the result is that Labour increased there vote by 600 and the SNP increased theirs by 4.500 all at the expence of the Libdems and Tories.

Will this obviously tactical voting by Libdems and Tories lull SuperBrown into calling a General Election?

He has a small window left that is rapidly closing if he hopes to benefit from the "Brown Bounce".

If he waits defeat will be a certainty, as the UK starts to resemble a third world country (like Greenock) as the recession starts to bite. With economists projecting 2 million unemployed by Christmas he may have already waited too long.
21

Guga II,

Rockall 07/11/2008 02:49:47
Hamish, could you please take off your New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party badge for a minute and tell us how Labour winning with a greatly reduced majority constitutes either an "emphatic victory" or a "decisive win" for them?

The New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party only won due to the fact that you can sometimes get away with fooling most of the people most of the time.

However, even allowing for the fact that some people are thick enough to vote for a monkey with a red rosette, the people of Glenrothes will wake up eventually, when the recession starts to bite, the job losses start to mount, home fuel bills continue to skyrocket, and the massive amount stolen in tax starts to mount.

In any event, it won't save Maggie Broon (a.k.a. Toom Tabard) at the next general election.
22

Ian William McGill,

Cullinan 07/11/2008 02:54:57
This "Peter Grant" is the spitting image of a Mr. Jim Parker of the Monktonhall Colliery Consortium . WHY THE NAME CHANGE?
23

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 03:00:01
It says a lot that hanging on to a seat with a much smaller majority can be the equivalent of a Lottery win for Labour supporters.

I guess thats the difference between slim and none.
24

Murray in Canada,

Salt Spring Island 07/11/2008 03:06:22
A won battle does not necessarily mean a won war.
25

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 07/11/2008 03:15:05
#61 Dick

".....I AM A CONSERVATIVE..."

I bet you don't admit that in front of your children!!!
26

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 03:15:22
#63 Dick1

"IF YOU SHOULD BE ANGRY,THINK ABOUT THE SO CALLED FINANCIAL GOD!!WHO HAS GOT IT TOTALLY WRONG."

"The end of boom and Bust" Who said that Dick?

Sadly Scotland will suffer along with the rest of the UK because of failure of Mr. Browns policies.

27

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 03:23:11
#61 Dick1

"Newsnight Scotland,the SNP,if this was reflected Scotland wide,would have the same number of seats at Westminster as LIb-Dems,8!!"

Lindsay Roy (Labour) 19,946 (55.11%)

Peter Grant (Scottish National Party) 13,209 (36.49%)

Maurice Golden (Conservative) 1,381 (3.82%)

Harry Wills (Liberal Democrat) 947 (2.62%)

Jim Parker (Scottish Senior Citizens Unity Party) 296 (0.82%)

Morag Balfour (Scottish Socialist Party) 212 (0.59%)

Is 3.82% a good result for the Tories these days? Is getting your deposit back your electoral goal?

Ha Ha Ha

28

Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife,

07/11/2008 03:29:40
All I can say is what a bunch of numpties the electorate in Glenrothes are!
You get what you deserve and you deserve to rot in your pits of filth. Traitors one and all!
29

,

07/11/2008 03:36:30
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30

KampungHighlander,

07/11/2008 03:45:46
#68 Dick1

"BAD NEWS FOR YA!!! I'M ENGLISH,TORY'S ARE AT BETWEEN 15-20% AHEAD DOWN HERE,OH DEAR GOT THAT WRONG DIDN'T YA!!."

Just another argument why Scotland needs to leave the UK.

Lets face it, we don't share your politics.

I certainly hope that you thrash Labour at the next general election in England and the SNP will do the same in Scotland.

And when the Scots are faced by being Governed again by a party that can't even win back its deposit in Scotland, that will set up everything for a victory in the referendum.

Which by the way, to Scottish Nationalists, all the elections between now and the referendum are simply prologue.
31

An Beal Bacht,

07/11/2008 03:53:16
Well - we can try to spin it - but why bother - new Labour have retained the seat and the people of Glenrothes rejected the independence project. That's their right. Nationalists need to reassess there political stance. New Labour - I know it seems incredible - have somehow convinced people that they are still socialists with the welfare of the common working man central to their programme.

The SNP need to rethink and reshape their priorities, Actions have to reflect rhetoric. Alex Salmond's support for laissez faire capitalism has been rejected in favour of Gordon Brown's laissez faire capitalism. It's time for the left within the SNP to raise it's voice and be heard.

It's time.

32

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 03:56:44
#70 Dick1

"THE ENGLISH WOULD HAVE AGREED TO HELP OUR SCOTTISH BROTHERS,SCOTLAND WOULD HAVE GOT A LOAN OF ABOUT £150-200BN"

Would that be the same money Brown has had to borrow? The UK does not have any money.
You do however have a printing press working overtime, which will mean parity with the Euro by easter and parity with the dollar by this time next year.

150-200Billion ? What you want to lend us enough to buy every UK Bank?



33

Geoff,

sa 07/11/2008 04:00:39
67 Champion Haggis-you wont win too many hearts and minds with those remarks Haggis.
A good night for Labour and the Union although the SNP can still claim to be making progress with a further erosion of Labour's support albeit against a background of the econ crisis and effects of the Loong term Blues. How will the BIG issue be settled-the increasing polarisation of Scottish politics around Independence is not a pretty sight-the biting comment by the normally mild mannered Sir Menzies is a good example of this.
34

Geoff,

sa 07/11/2008 04:03:23
67 Haggis-"and traitors shall tremble when e'r we assemble.."!!
One mans traitor...
35

democracy,

Scottish Borders 07/11/2008 04:04:46
I see a rather over the top reaction from some posters about their perceived crushing of the SNP.

Now for the reality check! New Labour did not WIN the seat, they merely RETAINED it with a sizeable 38% reduction on their previous majority = a larger gain to the SNP than to Labour, end of!!

I must admit though, I am pleased to see the Unionist posters level of debate and their analysis of the outcome, for all to see. They would make perfect New Labour politicians don't you think?
36

democracy,

Scottish Borders 07/11/2008 04:14:04
A retained seat, with a 38% reduced majority and what is the Unionist Scotsman rag headline?
"Big Glenrothes by-election win for Labour rocks Nationalists"

Yes, I know, says it ALL really, doesn't it??
37

Geoff,

sa 07/11/2008 04:32:25
77 Democracy-you need to put the result in context. Considering Labours recent woes and the high expectations of the SNP it IS a big win. Even the most optimistic Labourites/pessimistic SNPers expected at best/worst a neck and neck finish.
38

British Military Vet Veritas,

Van Dieman's Land 07/11/2008 04:40:02
LOL - We're on our way, brothers!

39

Finlang,

Switzerland 07/11/2008 04:56:12
I see the Fireflea troll was early off the mark with his trademark childish manic glee. I can't make up my mind whether this immature goading animal is less than 12 years of age or merely an adolescent plant by the vomit-inducing wing of the Labour Party. Similarly the multi-posting candidate psychopath that calls itself Vikki Komarovsky.
Why these people are planted on these forums is surely the stuff of doctoral dissertations ... or secure psychiatric wards.

40

Royster,

07/11/2008 05:09:08
So Salmond completely wrong again. Not only have all his economic arguments for independene gone up in smoke over the past few months, so has his political judgment.
41

madabbot,

far away 07/11/2008 05:14:05
why was the delay in posting the election ?

How many people have been out in Glenrothes in November, all NEW TOWNS were bulit on cold featureless farm land.
Liebour secret weapon the Fife Weather or should it be wether.
42

Sipeki,

Scotland 07/11/2008 05:21:45
Well this is Father Browns high point, for his premiership. Retaining a once Labour strong hold. Campaigning not on national issues, not issues relating to Westminster but on confusing voters on local issues. Yet again Labour uses fear to keep the status que.

So Father Brown will paint it as a vote for his himself. Can you campaign on one front and then call it a win on the other? I would say Father Brown you are deluding yourself.

One thing Father Brown will see is a chink of light in the sky before Christmas and decide to go to the people and ask them what they all think of his premiership.

Father Brown will find that there is no room at number ten for him and his wizened men.

This is just one of many events for Scotland to gain independence.

Election before Christmas 2008, defeat for Labour, referendum 2010, Scotland says yes to independence.
43

Billiam Wallace,

07/11/2008 05:21:58
A very sad day for Scotland and democracy. Before this election I had the fervent wish that my long held belief that Labour voters are generally more gullible and stubborn than other voters be proven wrong but this result blows that out of the water. While Mr. Rod is probably a nice enough guy and might be a good heedy, he is no politician, which he himself admits. (He might have got even more votes if he had brought his emu with him). So what is he then? It seems to me that he is just more voting fodder to be used by the government to mismanage the economy even more. The other trough snufflers will have to move over a wee bit to let him gets his trotters in.

#75 Geoff, Broon is everyone's traitor. The English hate him because he is inept and Scottish, the Scots hate him because he is Scots but hates Scotland with a vile passion and his doing his best to destroy it. He is a class traitor as he is ruining the lives of working people whom the Labour party are supposed to represent. I consider it quite possible that this election was rigged as Broon knew a loss would be the end for him. Certainly the mass media were completely on the side of Liebour and the SNP had to rely on foot soldiers and the internet to fight back as best they could. It would be interesting to see how the result would have differed if the media had been more balanced.
I weep for Scotland's future when the electorate are shown to be this foolish and easily misled. The Unionist posters on here shouldn't be crowing at their victory, they should be asking serious questions about how the country will ever get out of the mess the quisling Broon has got it into.
44

Pilrig.,

Livingston 07/11/2008 05:24:14
ID cards here we come.

Oops, forgot - next Westminster general election will be decided by middle England.
45

Pilrig.,

Livingston 07/11/2008 05:28:22
79 yep, a triumph for the working class (excuse my laughter).
Besides it'll make up for Nu Lab's disappointment at the defeat of their Neo Con allies across the pond.
46

Finlang,

Switzerland 07/11/2008 05:43:50
Omission from my post @80, to quote the headline to this newspaper's shameful political bias: "Big Glenrothes by-election win for Labour rocks Nationalists"

"Big ... win"? Forgive me if I read it wrongly but I thought Labour's majority was halved by the SNP. That does not count as a "big win" but a big relief to the creepy turncoat Fake-Fifer Brown of the well-chewed fingernails. Borrowed time, Brown, borrowed time.
47

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 05:46:37
To all the early NAT trolls, what now for that empty vessel Salmond. Not only can he not deliver a bye election victory when Labour are in such disarray, he costs his supporters money by telling them to back the SNP with their hard earned cash.
The reality is, the Labour vote increased, the SNP vote increased at the expense of the Tories and the Lib Dems. Not exactly the "earthquake" that loudmouth Salmond anticipated. Scottish politics is polarised that is what Salmond wants, but, the Scottish people will show that they do not want that.
Neo-Con SNP leader Salmond has the slap in the puss from the electorate of Glenrothes that he deserves.
48

donald,

glasgow 07/11/2008 05:49:42
Brown cashes in on world crisis. That won't hold between now and a general election.
49

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 05:51:05
Salmond's Neo-Con policies of starving schools of cash and bleeding special needs individuals of cash for their care have backfired.
Salmond is a Tory in all but name, remember his budget only passed with Tory support!
50

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 05:53:47
donald, # 89

No Donald, Salmond failed, choked, he had an open goal and failed to score.
This is the beginning of the end for Salmond. He was only any use to the SNP when he was winning. Like Swinney before him, the writing is on the wall for his leadership.
51

donald,

glasgow 07/11/2008 05:56:09
We'll be back.
52

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 06:02:35
donald # 92

I don't think so.
The belief of the SNP support in Salmond has been broken today. A self confident smirk and the ability to make sneering, name calling, attacks on anyone who opposes him is not the mark of a confident political leader. That is the mark of a demagogue: Salmond.
53

GLW,

Tbilisi 07/11/2008 06:02:47
At last people have woken up to the fact the Wee Eck's ark of prosperity is in fact an ark of poverty.

Watching Eck over the last year has been like watching of Ally's Tartan Army on the road to Argentina.

It was good fun while it lasted.
54

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 06:02:52
#88 Winnie the Pooh

"Scottish politics is polarised that is what Salmond wants, " Yes!

When your raison d'etre is the Independence of Scotland, then polarization is a necessary first step in achieving that objective. The virtual elimination of the LibDems and Tories as an alternative leaves us only one enemy to deal with.

Your analysis that Tories and LibDems switched to the Nationalists is flawed. I would argue that the SNP picked up votes from both the LibDem and Labour camps, while the Tory supporters voted tacticly to convince Brown to call a General Election.
55

Grahamski,

Falkirk 07/11/2008 06:06:04
This was a great result for the Labour Party of that there should be no doubt. The thing that should trouble the SNP most is that Labour eventually managed to get behind the nats' rhetoric and highlight who actually pays for Mr Salmond's grandstanding.
It's all very well to crow about prescription charges or take the credit over free schools meals or rate-capping, the horrible reality is that somebody's got to pay for it. Up until last night it was some of the most vulnerable in our society, last night it was an arrogant and loud-mouthed SNP.
The council elections in Glasgow and Edinburgh should also serve as a warning to the SNP. It is up to them whether they heed it.
56

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 06:13:03
KampongHighlander # 95

The headline above "Big Glenrothes by-election win for Labour rocks Nationalists," is correct. A gracious admission from a Tory supporting newspaper!

Salmond promised you this bye election on a plate. Labour increased their vote and trounced Salmond. If you believe, without the necessary evidence, that Tories and Lib Dems voted for Labour, then they will do it again to keep Salmond out, just as they voted SNP in Glasgow East to give Labour a bloody nose.

Salmond is not popular outside SNP voting circles, his constant divisive, snide, sneering sniping comments grate with most of the Scottish electorate. This vote shows what the people of Glenrothes think of the nyaff.
57

Grahamski,

Falkirk 07/11/2008 06:14:27
93
Absolutely. I think the SNP campaign of snide and nasty name-calling is beginning to turn people off. I was surprised at Glasgow East just how bitter and visceral the SNP's hatred of Labour was but I had never realised just how personal it was.
Mr Salmond's behaviour over the last few weeks hasn't helped either. He has behaved like a political mountebank, yapping away on the sidelines, desperatley trying to elbow his way in front of a camera, any camera to spout any old drivel which has grown increasingly hysterical as attempts to keep himself in the headlines.
People aren't daft, they see this and see Mr Salmond for what he is - a fairly nasty wee man with a snide turn of phrase whose time is running out.........
58

ANDREW the man !!,

THE TOON ! 07/11/2008 06:18:37
OCH AYE THE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !
LMFAO !!!!!
59

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 06:22:27
Grahamski, # 98

To be a fly on the wall at that post mortem...
Salmond will be spitting nails, I wonder who he will blame? Did he not vist the constituency ten times or more, spending his political capital in the process? So, who can he blame?

You are right about Salmond being manic and hysterical. All Salmond has ever promoted, manically, hysterically is himself, but the hot air has been let out of Salmond, the great windbag, this morning.
60

ANDREW the man !!,

07/11/2008 06:26:05
churchill w' no 100.
spot on churchill.
61

Royster,

07/11/2008 06:26:31
Salmond is like Roderick Spode; the buffoonish wannabe dictator.
62

Colkitto,

River Clyde 07/11/2008 06:26:44
If Labour have turned the corner, why not call a general election now ?
Or will dithering Brown bottle it again ?
63

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 06:26:44
Will Salmond concede, like John McCain did in the US election, that the failure at Glenrothes is his and his alone? Or, will Salmond attempt to bluster his way out of the blame for this loss in his typical, egotistical manner?
The world waits with baited breath...
64

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07/11/2008 06:30:51
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Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 06:34:20
Colkitto # 103

Will Salmond anounce his referendum on Scottish independence now, or, is it to be never?
66

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 06:35:43
#97 Winnie the Pooh

"Salmond is not popular outside SNP voting circles."

I think polls that consistently show him as one of the most popular politicians in Scotland, proves you wrong.

We lost this round, on to the next one.

What you need to understand is the the Nationalist movement will continue on its steady march to our inevitable victory. We are not going anywhere, we will continue our methodical progress until we win the referendum.
67

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 06:39:06
Royster # 102

Genius.

Lord Spode sending up Alec Salmond: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dO0KnZTiNFw
Note particularly the comment about the English...
68

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07/11/2008 06:39:11
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KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 06:40:01
When the SNP won Glasgow East the Unionists on these threads disappeared for a week.

When Labour won Glenrothes the Nationalist where out in force the very next day.

That is why we will eventually win the referendum, we don't get discouraged, we don't despair.

We dust ourselves of and go right back into the fight. That is why it is only a matter of time.
70

Bejjy,

07/11/2008 06:42:27
#57 Gaga

So 19000+ people of Glenrothes are "thick" for voting New Labour are they? With statements like that you're probably not the full shilling either. Idiot.
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07/11/2008 06:44:00
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overton,

balmedie 07/11/2008 06:45:39
Surprised that the SNP didn't win as I'm sure that the Glenrothes area used to regularly elect a Communist MP to Parliament.
73

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 06:47:19
KampongTeuchter # 107

1200 Nationalist on the "march" last weekend could not bring Salmond victory in Glenrothes, how many does he he need?
The "1200" managed to bring in just 13,209 votes beween them, that is just over 10 each. How many will have to "march" to ensure your "inevitable victory?" More than the Scottish voting population, I think!
You have spent too much time absorbing Salmond's pompous, overblown rhetoric and are due a rest from your armchair exertions, go and take a rest break.
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07/11/2008 06:47:47
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07/11/2008 06:48:57
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Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 06:51:05
sm 7531/2 # 114

Yeah, yeah, yeah "It wos the Sun wot done it."
It was all the time stupid Salmond spent on camera "wot done it," stupid.
77

PDgeordie,

peterhead 07/11/2008 06:52:19
Re-joice today is one song
Any one from the following three

#1 "Ye only sing when yir winnin"
#2 " So xxxx'n easy It's so xxxx'n easy"
And finally
#3 All together now
" Cherrio cherrio cherrio"
78

Angleland Isover,

07/11/2008 06:52:27
It all goes to show that some people need more of a reality check than others. Who cares by voting to keep maggiebroon even more english will vote tory meaning more Scots will vote for Independence. Happy days.
79

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 06:53:33
sm 7531/2 # 117

Salmond did not manage to reduce the Labour vote did he? You have been listening to Salmond's "excuses in advance of failure speech."
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07/11/2008 06:53:39
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KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 06:57:45
#116

"How many will have to "march" to ensure your "inevitable victory?" More than the Scottish voting population, I think!"

As many as it takes to get 50% plus 1.

Remember, we only have to win the referendum once, you have to win every time.
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07/11/2008 06:57:54
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07/11/2008 06:58:28
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Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 06:59:46
Angleland Isover # 121

What is the alternative? A couple of POSH, but, lightweight ex-public schoolboys, Cameron and Osbourne.
What have they got to offer, there is not a Tory policy on the distant horizon?
Maybe they will take some advice from Salmond on how it should be done, one Tory to another!
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07/11/2008 07:00:15
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Finlang,

Switzerland 07/11/2008 07:00:58
#93 Churchill W.,

Your quote:
"A self confident smirk and the ability to make sneering, name calling, attacks on anyone who opposes him is not the mark of a confident political leader. That is the mark of a demagogue: (Salmond.)"

Yep, everything you said above is a self-portrait in words for Churchill. Oh yesh ... Your persistent infantile tirades will be rendered even more useless come the general election, and that cannot come too soon. Whoever wins, it will most certainly not be your treacherous, bogus, terminally discredited Blair+Brown-lied-to Labour Party. This Labour Party has in the last 11 years exceeded any previous sleaze-ridden Tory government, by a million miles. Keep up your puerile vindictive spite, Churchill. (Or are you Blobby Foulkes in drag?) The world is laughing at you not with you.
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07/11/2008 07:01:16
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Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 07:03:36
sm 7531/2 # 126

Prove your theory of press and other media collusion in Salmond's defeat.

Are you Salmond's new apologist, I would watch out if I were you, don't bet on staying in the job too long.
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07/11/2008 07:04:28
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07/11/2008 07:06:12
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07/11/2008 07:07:46
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SouthernSkye,

Bonnie Bonn 07/11/2008 07:08:01
I had kind of thought it would go this way, much as I hoped to the contrary. The HBOS-TSB deal seems to be ignored by the general public and there is a feeling of "Brown done good" with the economy. I know not why but, perhaps, this will give the SNP a desire to work even harder for the people of Scotland.
Question:
I understand there were three by-elections last night? is this true? What/where were the others and what happened? Why were they not in the Scotsman prior to polling day?
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Evan Owen,

Uppergumtree 07/11/2008 07:08:46
I hope the same thing happens in Welsh Wales, look you, boyo, iachida...
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Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 07:09:12
Finlang # 130

I understand your bitterness and feel for you.

The world has not heard of Salmond and Scotland is in the process of rejecting the pompous oaf. Keep up the good work, Salmond will be well pleased with you.
Mocking people with a speech impediment is unbecoming of even you: Shir Sean will be disappointed in you today. A day when dignity in defeat could be expected: troll.
95

Chaplin,

07/11/2008 07:09:28
This is an extremely bad result for the Nats.
The hopes of Independance are now fading, not brought on by Labour misrule or populist SNP governance but by a World financial crisis that many see as better together than apart.
96

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07/11/2008 07:09:55
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TWC,

Ayrshire 07/11/2008 07:09:56
Well New Labour won but I will never return to them. I was disgusted with the bias to Labour in the press & media.
I will be cancelling my newspaper today

Congratulations to those who feel they have won but it is a bad day for Scotland.
98

TWC,

Ayrshire 07/11/2008 07:10:49
Cancel your paper tomorrow
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07/11/2008 07:11:17
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07/11/2008 07:12:18
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Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 07:12:49
sm 7531/2 # 137

They allow obscene little trolls like you to post, so, why should they disallow anybody else?
Got anything constructive to post, or are going to persist in displaying your foul ignorance to the world?
You are an example of why the SNP could not win yesterday, you are just too terminally stupid to know it.
102

John S,

07/11/2008 07:12:58
#103 Colkitto.You are correct about Brown the ditherer, if he had held the general election in the autumn of 2007 he wouldn't have any GE to content with but now he will have to hold the GE (with the prospect of a change of UK Government) before the possible Scottish referendum on independence held 30 Nov 2010 ?
His choice to hold the GE is limited with the last day for the GE 3 Jun 2010.
7 May 2009 England local council elections, probably moved to the 4 June 2009 in an effort to reduce costs and increase turnout.
4 June 2009 EU elections.
Oct/Nov 2009 UK general election ? with Parliament returning from recess on 12 October 2009.
6 May 2010 local elections in all London Boroughs, and 134 other English Local Authorities.
3 June 2010 last possible UK general election date.
30 Nov 2010 possible Scottish Referendum.
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07/11/2008 07:13:52
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07/11/2008 07:14:49
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Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 07:16:15
sm 7531/2 # 147

The SNP have peaked and 5% will take them nowhere in the next UK general election. Tough.
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07/11/2008 07:17:45
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07/11/2008 07:19:04
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Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 07:20:56
sm 7531/2 # 151

You don't have a message.
I am quite happy for you to be exposed for the bitter loser that you are, wherever you want. I suspect that Salmond might want to shut you up though. Your irrational, bitter rants do, even, his brand of nationalism no favours.
You are an obscene and vicious Troll, your use of euphemisms, misspellings does not avoid that conclusion.
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TWC,

Ayrshire 07/11/2008 07:24:14
My main concern is that the people are not manipulate, try this; do a search on Glenrothes in any Scottish paper and look ate the articles without bias if you can. You will be shocked.
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Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 07:24:39
sm 7531/2 # 155

I know you are for real.
I reiterate, "You are an obscene and vicious Troll, your use of euphemisms, misspellings does not avoid that conclusion."
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yockel,

07/11/2008 07:25:45
Very disapointing but 5% in such a safe seat is not to be sniffed at. Maybe the voters of Glenrothes are just a bit ahead of the game. After all we will need rid of the Socilaist National Party asap after independence.

Eck, of course you need to win the the whinging parasite, labour vote but pressing ahead with the previous labour administration's policies and allowing Kenny to have divisive big ideas is not the way to go.
112

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07/11/2008 07:25:48
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eric,

07/11/2008 07:26:45
Well done the the snp for eating into labour votes.
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07/11/2008 07:26:49
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07/11/2008 07:28:55
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subrosa,

07/11/2008 07:29:49
# 21
'Yawn, I see the Labour Numpties are delighted
to have retained a seat and send one more Labour
stooge to Westminister. Congratulations on
adding one more Red Rosette Monkey to your
troupe'

Tut tut Traquir, not like you to get facts wrong. It's not one more to Westminster, it's just a replacement for the poor soul who died and still his claim for his illness was not recognised by his party.

You're right though. The folk of Glenrothes have voted for a popular bloke with a red rosette. Somehow I feel they will regret this move in time - that is when the results from Kirkcaldy High School begin to slide.
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Angleland Isover,

07/11/2008 07:30:15
#153 Scotland has only began to walk the path to good fortune.
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07/11/2008 07:33:23
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The Tin Man,

07/11/2008 07:33:43
Congratulations to Lindsey Roy and Labour.
120

subrosa,

07/11/2008 07:35:10
# 79

Don't forget to close the door on your way out.
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Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 07:37:07
I think it was Salmonds handling of the Hbos crisis wot won it.

The way he sorted out the Lloyds Tsb Board was widely admired.





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07/11/2008 07:38:04
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Ugly George,

07/11/2008 07:38:52
156 753.5
"Gordon Brown= financial genius the Prime minister with the midas touch or is that the medusa touch? depends on whether you read a UK newspaper or a newspaper from anywhere else in the world."

How frequently do you read newspapers from "anywhere else in the world"?
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07/11/2008 07:38:53
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07/11/2008 07:39:20
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Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 07:39:32
Was Nicola Sturgeon Sucking a lemon on the BBC last night?

Sure looked like it.
127

Mikey,

07/11/2008 07:40:53
The SNP (and it's supporters) have to realise soon that they can't win every seat. There are people all over Scotland who will always vote Labour. Some do it because of a loyalty to the Labour movement, others because they're too stupid to see anything else.

The focus of the SNP for the next election should be to ram home the iniquities of Labour. They should fight Labour on their own battleground. Be negative about Labour and positive about Scotland. Labour fought a wholly negative election in Glenrothes, so the SNP should do the same! List just how bad Labour are! Exploit how the party has become a thatcherite shadow of it's former self!

The gloves should now come off. Destroy Labour and destroy the union!
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07/11/2008 07:41:08
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Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 07:43:13
News from SNP Central Office,

Salmond will be issuing his tip for the X Factor at noon today.

All SNP members to check their inbox.
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Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 07:45:14
181 janis#

Wel done for what? Leaving the economy in a state like Estonias with the prediction of the worst recession in Europe to hit the UK becuase of mis-management?

Labour will be out at the next election and this by-election will be the shortest lived of any that i can remember.

Tories will be in power soon and independence is still on track, hoo harr can't wait.
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07/11/2008 07:45:46
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Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 07:46:59
Richard 1#

Sensible voters vote for Labour hehehoho good one, they are as thick as mince generally and vote 'cause ma dad did'.

I have never heard Labour voters described as anything less than fodder.
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07/11/2008 07:47:29
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obeone,

07/11/2008 07:47:43
hahahaha! Well done Labour, up the union, down with the whinging nats!
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07/11/2008 07:48:56
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Ugly George,

07/11/2008 07:49:01
177 753.5
Which of the world's media do you read daily? I have the occasional look but I don't have time to read them all daily.
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Phil C,

07/11/2008 07:49:03
This is a very disappointing, if expected, result but the saddest thing is that the good people of Glenrothes exercised their democratic right to make themselves look like complete eejits!
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Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 07:49:05
More news from SNP central office . . . .The campaign for Scotlands very own Eurovision Song Contest starts now. . . .We cant win an easy election so lets concentrate on other important issues.
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07/11/2008 07:49:25
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Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 07:50:06
190 Richard1#

Does not put me up or down either way, Tories will be in power soon and it will be bye bye union; it's what we are all waiting for.
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KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 07:51:09
Poor wee unionists, they don't even get to gloat.

Try and enjoy your wee victory, it will be a long time before get another one.

#161 Dick1 If you are so happy, why are you shouting?

#160 Winnie the Pooh. Try and enjoy your little victory, short lived though it may be. Perhaps you should take Eior and Pigglet out for a drink to celebrate.




142

vimto,

07/11/2008 07:51:20
TO ALL NATZ WHO WERE SO CERTAIN THEY WOULD WIN IN GLENROTHES,HA HA HA! IF YOU SEE JIMMY LE PIE TELL HIM HE OWES ME £50.
143

subrosa,

07/11/2008 07:51:20
Labour threw everything it had at this by-election. Every MP would possibly could visited - never to be seen again of course. Will be interesting to see the cost of this for labour - particularly the costs of MPs travel from London.

If they couldn't hold this seat, with it being Gordon Brown's back yard and a by-election caused by the death of a popular MP, then they were finished.

As it is the SNP ate into their majority so well done them.

Fifers are a strange lot and dyed in the wool labour with some areas of the seat still having the remnants of communism. They'll waken up in a few months time when it's shown that the UK have the worst financial situation in the world and all because of mishandling by their neighbour.
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vimto,

07/11/2008 07:52:55
Salmond has been outed,his lies have caught up with him.
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07/11/2008 07:53:46
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mr angry,

ayrshire 07/11/2008 07:54:12
This is a disaster for Scotland, given the state of the country it is unbelievable that so many idiots can still vote for Labour. When the idiots get bounced of incapacity benefit and forced to look for a job it may jolt their few remaining brain cells. It looks like this country is destined to remain begging crumbs from the UK rather than stand on its own two feet. Very depressing to have it confirmed that we are confirmed as losers and subsidy junkies, the comments from England are well justified.
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Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 07:54:57
Hi Nevsky, great to hear from you old chap. How is Norway this morning.

All your predictions were dross. Just like all your posts.

You should phone Salmond and offer your commiserations.

At times like these, all you losers should stick together.

Ha Ha Ha, what a great day.

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07/11/2008 07:55:50
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07/11/2008 07:58:03
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07/11/2008 07:59:44
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cabrach loon,

inverness 07/11/2008 07:59:49
I would have thought perjury should extend to political candidates etc. who tell blatant lies to gain power, delude the voters, stay in power, gain money etc. If not a crime it should be - Ah but then all nulab would be in jain including this new lkabour gem for Glenrothes - shame on them all.

Well Fife central has been red for generations and enslaved in the mines bvefore that. Poor them. Maybe they feel a nulab man in westminster will be more effectual than snp or other, though I doubt it, just another back bencher! National trend I doubt it though, God forbid that there would be so many idiots, yet there were to vote Blair in three years ago to destroy Britain!

Question though why was this election delayed so long, was it to get spin off from a socialist win in the US presidential, or to let Broon claim he has worked more economic miracles on his destroyed economy. Like a boy lighting a fire and then calling the fire brigade!
All his economic measiures have been disasters - selling gold for a pittance, destroying the pension base, fighting wars without equipping the forces so they can win - you do not make war on the cheap! lack of fiscal prudence and banking regulation as well as lending regulations, funding banks too late (other than NRock), and finally interest rate changes too late too.
Broon a master at sitting on the fence and dithering, a veritable Nero. So Nero Broon!
152

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 08:00:27
207 Richard#

This is a by-election and nothing more and you cannot predict anything from it just as you couldn't from Glasgow East.

What we can predict is that if every voter in Scotland voted Labour at the next election they would still not be in power at Westminster.
153

Dave,

Western Isles 07/11/2008 08:01:28
Now that all this political posturing and scoring off each other is finished, can the parties involved please go back to work, which is what we pay them for?

There is something a little more important going on than the usual empty promises (from both parties) and politiking that is taking place.
154

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07/11/2008 08:02:35
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Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 08:03:16
2121 Richard#

Was not a vote on independence, this was a local campaign by Labour; you will also notive that with the looming threat of the Tories then the vote for independence rises to it's highest ever.

Can't wait.
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subrosa,

07/11/2008 08:03:26
# 211

Well put nevsky.
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07/11/2008 08:03:44
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Phil C,

07/11/2008 08:03:57
It's a long time since Labour had anything to feel remotely good about. It shows here in the delusional comments 'celebrating' this tepid win.

It does not spell the end of the SNP or the 'outing' of Salmond or the end of the quest to bring about a fair society for everybody in Scotland, making our own decisions and governing our own land. This is a reality check for the SNP that there are still many people in Scotland who remain to be convinced. It's very frustrating that so many are so slow, but patience is the way forward.
159

Finnzz,

07/11/2008 08:04:58
So the labour candidate still can't stop lying, even after winning the seat.

Well done Labour voters, the liar you voted for should fit right in with all his other Labour colleagues at Westminster.
If I had been a parent at the school this liar was in charge of, I would start asking questions of their employment vetting policy.
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07/11/2008 08:05:37
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07/11/2008 08:06:24
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Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 08:06:35
215 Richard#

It's a by-election in Fife that is all. Less significant than Glasgow East as Labour have not acheved any breakthrough and are grimly hanging on tooth and nail to a hearland seat next to the PM.

In fact if the SNP had won i would have been happy but attached little significance to it; the real test is Wetminister elections and Holyrood and the people will i am totally sure vote in the Tories in Westminster and the SNP in Holyrood.....

....independence to follow!

163

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 08:08:53
#194 Rufus the Barfly

Why don't you try and get some new material? Your really boring.

Typical Rufus Post:

Blah Blah Blah, Salmonds Fat, Blah Blah Blah, eat all the pies, Blah Blah Blah, Iceland, Blah Blah Blah, Eurovision, Blah Blah Blah.

Is that a fair summary of the 100,000 posts you have made in the last 2 months?

See how boring you are? Go away until you have some new stupidity to post.
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07/11/2008 08:09:02
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scottish person,

paisley 07/11/2008 08:10:07
So its true. The people of Glenrothes are thick.I thought it was a joke, but it's true. Rufus and Richard, I find it easy to ignore your banal postings.
Go on Brown and your darling, close all the post offices the people in Fife will applaud you for it.
Thicko's.
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PJ Walker,

East Lothian 07/11/2008 08:11:45
With each passing day, the treble-chinned numpty slips further down the road to obscurity
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Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 08:13:06
228 Richard#

You think Scotland will turn wholesale to southern english Tories?

We remember the boom and bust of Thatcher and her slimy ilk, no chance.
168

scottish person,

paisley 07/11/2008 08:16:30
They would rather vote for a useless human being than go against the liebour party. I thought it was a big ask to overcome a huge majority of east coast Zombies who elected one of their own kind.
Suffer little children, they know not what they do.
As you can guess I am not happy at the outcome.The braindead win again.
169

sonofhamish,

edinburgh 07/11/2008 08:17:56
What a loser, poor Salmon. Hahahaha.
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Buckfastleigh,

wasteminister 07/11/2008 08:18:22
comment removed by administrator: Labor in Labour win to lose lose to win economy dead people alive and kicking no punctuation without representation.
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Braes of Glenmiller,

In the cave of penitence and reflection 07/11/2008 08:19:30
I got that one wrong big time!!!!

Still, my prediction of a 2312 SNP majority didn't say in which election they would win. Maybe sometime in the future?

SNP vote increased, Labour vote decreased, percentage shares likewise. So not a bad night for the SNP but they are now learning that they have to justify power rather than snipe at the big red propaganda machine. the banking crisis definitely helped Labour and left the SNP looking marginalised.

That won't happen again, and come the spring when domestic fuel prices continue to rise and unemployment shoots up people may once again realise that Labour caused the problems and cannot resolve them.

Meanwhile I'm off to Rathlin Island to watch spiders try, try, and try again whilst somone else can swat at tiresome fireflies and their ilk.
172

gus1940,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 08:23:46
I wonder what the headlines would be if Marshall hadn't resigned his seat in Glasgow East.

Incidentally when can we expect to see dedtails of his expenses which we were promised?
173

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 08:24:08
So far on this thread we have seen the people of Glenrothes called "eejits" and "thickos". On another Scotsman thread today they were called "scum"

It is reassuring to see such a tolerant approach to the result of a electoral process. If you get the result you want it is to be hailed as a "political earthquake". If you don't get the result you want then the people then the people are "thickos" and "scum".


174

tassiestag,

rosebery 07/11/2008 08:24:32
#224 nevsky...........hear......hear
175

The Tin Man,

07/11/2008 08:27:37
Labour did advertise the fact that the SNP-led council had raised care charges for the elderly, and cut the education budget in Fife (makes the promise of free electricity sound hollow, where-ever it is coming from).

Allied to the fact that the oposition leaders were left adrift when the stock-market and banks went kaput.

Anyway, if a recession bites, I am sure the backlash vote will re-mobilise if the SNP councils don't act like Tories.
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07/11/2008 08:29:06
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oder,

Scotland 07/11/2008 08:32:26
Now that the union is saved the asset stripping labour
party can continue their work a little longer,the future is bright 250,000 tons of toxic waste for Falkirk, increase in unemployed! and the hand me down jobs for the 2012 olympics, yes the Nation has been saved! good job!
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07/11/2008 08:33:05
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Dave,

Western Isles 07/11/2008 08:34:14
237

Well Glenrothes is Glasgow overspill from 50 years ago. Old habits die hard and news travels slowly.
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A Better Way,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 08:40:06
Well as a strong Nat, I am man enough to congratulate The People of Glenrothes. They came out and Voted for London New Labour and at the end of the day their choice is what its all about. I do not think the SNP made enough of the biased coverage by the BBC and STV. The Herald and the Hootsman ran a good election for the Unionists. Murdochs rags fed the people the usual sheite, and that is that.

However do not be mistaken, we Nats are used to fighting the British System. We have been doing it for nigh on 70 years. We will bounce back, and we still control most of the Councils and the Scottish Government.

Its just such a real pity that a subject like biased media controlled by London, isnt treated with disgust by all civilised people no matter what their beliefs are. S

Scotland hasnt lost its culture completely yet, it just needs more wakening up and we shall do it. Roll on the Referendum in 2010.
181

DaveK,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 08:43:58
The seat was there for the SNP to win, they lost, deal with it, learn from it and stop making excuses. Even now you insult the electorate by claiming it was the media who won it for Labour, no people aren't stupid, this is exactly the attitude that switches people off. I'm not so green as to not understand that once the recession hits, that Labour won't face a backlash in some shape or form. The SNP reactions and responses last nigt at the result were lamentable and smacket of the very "novices" that Brown warned about. Sturgeon was very uncomfortable, as for the puppet who was giving his view of things from the count, get rid of him, he was a joke.
182

sjs,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 08:45:18
What do you expect from the Mingdom of Fife? Perhaps they are proud to have produced the pathetic excuse we have for a leader by the back door. I had a feeling labour would win, if only because people are too feard of their own country to handle itself instead of being a parasite.

Pathetic.
183

The Strategist,

07/11/2008 08:48:08
I certainly don't see this as a setback for the SNP.

The timing of this by-election was crucial and Labour got it absolutely but cynically right. If it had been held say a month ago in the middle of the banking crisis or in six months time when the recession has taken hold properly then I've no doubt Labour would have been thrashed.

184

Shaken,

07/11/2008 08:54:49
Yep Labour pretty lucky.

Shows what a poor state the party is in when retaining a seat by a lesser majority is cause for celebration.

People of Glenrothes should be ashamed. At least if they didn't want to vote SNP they could have voted Lib Dem or even Tory. Pin your flags to a corrupt party.

Vive la SNP
185

Shaken,

07/11/2008 08:55:20
249

Dream on
186

Highland Mist,

07/11/2008 08:55:47
#248, wake us and smell the coffee. Tremendous result for Scotland and the UK and Glenrothes has got itself a superb MP who will work his socks off for his consituents. Game, set and match to GB and his team.
187

Dave,

Western Isles 07/11/2008 08:55:49
249

Devolved or independent? Which one?
188

Dave,

Western Isles 07/11/2008 08:56:16
252

Dream on
189

,

07/11/2008 08:59:31
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190

John Methven,

Blackburn 07/11/2008 09:03:21
Thank goodness the folk from fife realise that Scotland Ireland and Wales are dependant on Westminster
191

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 07/11/2008 09:03:50
To the SNP - you will wait wan hundrad years , and you will wait wan hundrad years , thurs no goany be undependuns fur Scoatlin . Long Live the union !!!!
192

Joe McLaine,

07/11/2008 09:04:51
Good to see all the little SNP aparatchicks getting a little hot under the sporran and venting their bitter and twisted victim mentality:

"It's all because the Hootsman is biased...."

"Its all because of the London controlled media......"

"It's all because Fifers are stupid....."

Wrong on all counts. You lost because Gordon Brown is ultimately competent and Fifers are fly.
193

Shaken,

07/11/2008 09:07:01
252

Highland Mighty back with a different moniker but the same old b/s. Wondered how long it would take before all the unionist that ran away after the Glasgow E election would be back.

1Labour will still lose the next general election - (really just by how much now)do you dispute this?

SNP have failed to win a seat that was Labour's anyway. As I said previously; what political party would ever think that HOLDING ON to a seat was worth all the back slapping and 'egg on your face' nonsense that we hear now?

Do you really think Labour has done a good job by not losing? How low are your expectations?
194

Shaken,

07/11/2008 09:08:25
Joe - do you think Labour do a good job?

How low are your expectations?
195

Not a socialist,

Glenrothes 07/11/2008 09:09:07
Not the result I would have liked, but it's the result I predicted.

I hope that the Lib Dems get their act together for the general election - fourth place is just poor, particularly when it falls behind the Tories. A better candidate and clearer promotion of policies!
196

Stryder,

Glenrothes 07/11/2008 09:11:05
I actually live here in glenrothes have done for a long time. this area was a Mining area full of pits until Maggie Thatcher got her hands on us. in other words a staunch Labour stronghold from way back. How can anyone be surprised at the vote.Give snp the chance we did for labour after Thatcher
197

Dave,

Western Isles 07/11/2008 09:12:59
With things looking ropey in England on the Labour front, of course this is a major win for them.

Sadly, the tide has turned for Labour and they will be voted out at the next general election anyway.

Gladly, they haven't the same grip in Scotland as they used to though...
198

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 09:13:47
#259 You and others appears not to have noticed that Labour didn't just "hold on" to the seat. They increased their vote! The SNP's gains were against the Lib Dems and the Tories. Labour didn't lose a single vote - they gained 500 votes over the result at the last UK general election. By any rational standard this is utter defeat for the SNP and its smug, condescending rhetoric.
199

salmondella,

England 07/11/2008 09:14:13
Given the nature of bye elections, this is a good win for Labour who must never be written off as history has proven time and time again. Too early to say for definite, but I suspect that the SNP will now really start to struggle as their strategy of all substance and no content dawns on those who were sick and tired of Labour and gave the SNP a chance to prove that they could do better, but now realise that they were wrong.
200

Hugh,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 09:15:10
Whilst not a constituent or a Labour supporter, I'm delighted with the result. Alex Salmond has made some silly populist decisions such as scrapping the Edinburgh Airport link, and abolishing tolls on the Forth Road bridge, when there is no money to keep it working, let alone fund a second crossing. However there is no substance in his policies.

People will vote SNP for fun in mid-term to give the prevailing government a bloody nose, but never in a general election
201

Canning,

07/11/2008 09:15:20
I think the remarkable thing from last night has to be the fact that Labour actually increased their share of the vote, not only in numerical terms but also as an over all percentage. The SNP managed to take votes off of the Lib Dems,Tories and the other fringe parties. Woop dee doo.

Here's a quick pub quiz question: when was the last time a party gained more votes in a by-election after being in power for ten years?
202

Embra Don,

07/11/2008 09:15:41
Interesting that when Mr Roy was pontificating about "education cuts" on Newsnicht (on Tuesday I think), he claimed that he did not know what his schools budget for the previous year was. Not really surprising though, as it was about 4% less than the current year. The nauseating thing was that the fawning Labour stooge Glen Campbell (who did know)let him continue with the lie unchallenged.
203

Ananurhing,

07/11/2008 09:16:34
What a disappointment! This was Broon's Falklands moment. Fear, uncertainty, and negative campaigning won the day. Even in his acceptance speech Roy managed to be negative.

6% increase in the SNP vote is something to build on, but I have to confess to being bitterly disappointed.
Listening to people say things like "Broon is the man
to see us through this crisis", leads me to despair.
And listening to Jim Murphy is quite chilling. (Does he remind anyone else of the actor in "Psycho").

Fear, uncertainty, and negativity were offered up to the people of Glenrothes, and unfortunately, they bought into it!
204

watcher,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 09:17:34
Voters in Scotland are realising if Scotland goes Independant and the SNP are dissolved, that Salmond and his cronies would either form a Capitalist Party, or join the Tories, whilst the foot soldiers would vote Socialist.
Result no change apart from the fact that we would be left without a banking system, a national health and no social security. In all a pretty poor Country.
205

Alan B,

07/11/2008 09:17:49
Dreadful result for the snp. Dreadful result for Scotland. Dreadful result for Britain.

Brown has wrecked the UK economy. We are going into complete meltdown with a moron like Brown have run the uk into the ground.

This byelection just feels like turkeys voting for christmas.

All I keep thinking is the old sun headline. Will the last person out please turn out the lights.
206

Dave,

Western Isles 07/11/2008 09:18:46
Funny Duncan, I always thought it was Labour who championed the "smug, condescending rhetoric"!

A party prepared to promise the World in benefits and preserve Scotland in Aspic just to keep a safe seat.
207

Embra Don,

07/11/2008 09:20:05
267 Hugh
Something of a contradiction there Hugh?
Where was the money for the ludicrous Airport Junction project going to come from?
208

DMK,

Livi 07/11/2008 09:20:54
There is an underlying issue that the SNP has to work on. Scots have been told that for 300 years the country was either stronger as part of the Union or couldn't survive without it. It sank into the psyche. It'll take more than 18 months of SNP limited government to change.

Labour used the lack of critical focus from the UK media (due to the US election distraction) which most folk still use for news, to update this to the line that Scotland would be like Iceland in the financial crisis. Not Norway, or Sweden you notice......

Despite the fact that Mr Darling hasn't upended the Treadneedle St piggy bank to rescue Scotland- He's borrowing.

The Proclaimers put it best- "we boast, then we cower, we beg for a piece of what's already ours".

Work to do Alex
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Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 09:21:33
#270 You appear to be buying into Nicola Sturgeon's unfounded claims of negative campaigning by Labour. People who live in the constituency say that they saw no difference in the positivity or negativity from either the SNP or Labour. Please don't compound the SNP's failure of over-confidence and under-delivery by trying to rewrite history; that is just desperate. The SNP lost the election convincingly. Deal with it.
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Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 09:23:03
#273 With the rise of Alex Salmond, the undisputed champion of smug condescension and populist rhetoric, the SNP long ago took this crown.
211

Margaret L,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 09:23:14
People forget that no-one voted SNP at the last election - they voted for "Alex Salmond for First Minister". Now that they have all seen over the last few weeks that the man is a complete and utter prat then all that is left is infantile nationalism which is better left on the Hampden terraces where it belongs.
212

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 09:23:32
ALL the candidates in the Glenrothes By-Election were pretty wooden characters.

The good people of Fife picked the best of a dire bunch to represent them at Westminster, and the Labour candidate is just fortunate that events turned in Labour's favour. Nobody was convinced by the Nationalist candidate who should stick to local politics.

The Labour Party in Scotland must be relieved after this excellent result. It is a major setback for the Nationalists but they will be back, as Labour know only too well!

The result was even worse for the blue-rinse Lost Tribe! Can the North British Tories sink any further?
Did the narcistic Tory candidate spend all his time in front of a hairdressers mirror being interviewed by TV journalists or did he actually go out canvassing?
213

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 09:23:51
272 Alan B
One thing for sure now. Gordon Brown will not face a leadership challenge before the next general election.
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Embra Don,

07/11/2008 09:24:25
I should imagine that Gordon Brown, saviour of the world, will now go for a May election before his recession turns into a depression. Go on Gordon - be decisive!
215

Alan B,

07/11/2008 09:25:10
#Duncan in Edinburgh

"By any rational standard this is utter defeat for the SNP and its smug, condescending rhetoric."

So what you are saying is labour lying rhetoric is better. Even on winning the labour candidate repeated the lie about cuts in the education budget. An education budget which the interviewer quoted figures to him showing it was an increase. Figures which he admitted on tv he did not know and hence was lying. And interestingly cuts which actually pertained to when labour were in power and not the snp.

I just do not understand why people still support a party that openly lies. It is like bringing back mandelson. Labour bring back a corrupt politician and then people vote labour in.

We got the same during the 80s with all the lies about cuts in the nhs during the tory years. I have to say i was shocked after believing these statement when i learned that the only ever cuts to nhs spending was under labour in the 70s. It is lies like this that have turned my of the labour party. But for the life of me cannot understand why others find this type of lying acceptable in a political party.
216

Soutar's pocket,

Still laughing at Angus Robertson last night! 07/11/2008 09:25:51
"Sean Connery! Winnie Ewing! Gordon Wilson! Arthur Donaldson! Brian Souter! Nicola Sturgeon! Alex Salmond - can you hear me, Alex Salmond! Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating"

Copyright Bjorge Lillelien 1981
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Dave,

Western Isles 07/11/2008 09:27:49
277

Dunno, think wee MConnell took that title with "The Best Wee Country in the World". Considering this was from the Labour Party who has made it clear Scotland is a "region of the UK and not a country", what's smug, pintriped, skirt wearing rhetoric now?
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AJ Fife,

07/11/2008 09:28:18
Roy seems a decent bloke, but unsuited to the highly questionable, Labour political machine. From a respected Headmaster to a pilfering, untrustworthy Liebour man is quite a drastic drop in a person's integrity and moral position! Let's all hope he can avoid the Labour disease of corruption, and do what he pledged to do - work with the SNP Leader in Fife to the benefit of ALL the people of mid-Fife!

Good to see the SNP keep up a fantastic level of momentum. Increasing their support by 13% is a sensational result
219

Boab,

Glasgow 07/11/2008 09:28:23
Alternative headline: 'Labour holds on to 3rd safest seat by narrow margin'. Astounding how anyone could give Gordo credit for 'handling' his own crisis. Shame on Glenrothes.
220

Alan B,

07/11/2008 09:29:35
#280 Ugly George

Did not think he would face a leadership challenge after he brought back Mandelson.

Personally i think Brown will still get gubbed in the next general election as the brown bounce will come to a halt when the economic devastation really comes through.

Labour may continue to do well in scotland but in England they will cruxify him. The right wing english press are not like the labour supporting press in scotland.

When people lose their jobs and unemployment rises. When people lose their pensions, when people lose their homes and their wealth. Then england will destroy him.

For me I am just shocked about how scotland continue voting for a party that has done so little for scotland economically. And has lead the whole uk into complete meltdown.
221

57vintage,

Keith 07/11/2008 09:31:20
Well, so far:

It was a media conspiracy (I support neither party but think the coverage was fair, except to the ognored minority parties.

Labour ran a negative campaign - considering I have worked for the SNP at General Elections, this is breathtaking. Calling into question the record of the elected representatives is the very core of campaigning. The SNP need to realise that they are no longer seen as a protest vote - they are in power, are now part of the political establishment and need to stand on their record. They cannot have their cake and eat it.

Labour apparently flooded the constituency with party people from England - it's a UK election FFS. Pass port control has not yet been installed at Carter Bar or Gretna Green has it?

The voters of Glenrothes are thick. Fantastic. I've been subjected to boorish behaviour by SNP MSPs (aye you Adams and Lochhead) when I've tried to counter their arguments in public before by asking questions they didn't like. This attitude has also been displayed by other would-be SNP politicians to my face and over the internet. In public life, anyone with political ambitions cannot afford to act in such a way.

That's a helluve lot of big boys who did it and ran away.

And where is Salmond? Happy to be the cheerleader but disappears when responsibility has to be taken. Jim Sillars, a man who I respect above any other Scottish politician called it right last night when he described "hubris" as being a large part of the failure. Even Prescott got it right - Salmond's cheeky chappie veneer is all too easily seen through and his bluff was well and truly called. Sillars of course was marginalised by the Salmond faction in the SNP when the business-suited clones took over with their busy earnestness, clipboards, amateur psephology, spin-doctoring and focus groups (how very New Labour).

The other losers last night, however were the minority parties whose vote went down by 3%.

I think Roy will do a decent job for the ar
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Embra Don,

07/11/2008 09:31:40
Did anyone hear the piece on R 4 this morning about the rise of political pressure within Norway to reform its union with Sweden because of the turbulent economic times ahead? Apparently there is a majority who would prefer to return to subservience in order to form a larger economic unit.
223

57vintage,

07/11/2008 09:32:07
cont....

I think Roy will do a decent job for the area. I think the SNP fella would have done likewise, but it's the SNP who need to take a very hard look at their way of operating - their bluster and spin was exposed and found not to be to the taste of a quite sophisticated electorate.
224

,

07/11/2008 09:33:01
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Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 07/11/2008 09:33:24
I am disappointed at this result. the SNP should have won this and I don't understand why they didn't. If this is indeed the end of their good run and Labour fight their way back into Scottish politics then I will be packing my bags and leaving this hell hole. the SNP wins were the only thing keeping me here. I can't believe how fickle and thick some people can be to vote for these people.
226

Alan B,

07/11/2008 09:33:34
For all those smug labour supporters gloating. Think about one thing.

The sheer devastation that Brown has brought to the uk. The sheer hurt that Brown will cause people as the economy meltdown. The pain as people lose their jobs. The desparation as people lose their pensions. Families ripped appart.

This is not some political game. This is people lives. Lives ruined by cancerous Brown economics.
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,

07/11/2008 09:35:53
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Embra Don,

07/11/2008 09:36:59
Maybe - with a new found confidence, Broon will let we Jack go to Malawi now if he thinks he can win a bye-election in Motherwell...
229

,

07/11/2008 09:38:14
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Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 09:38:53
287 Alan B
I am not so sure that he will get gubbed. There is still a lot to play for. There will be a recession but a lot depends on how he and Darling splash out (yet more) borrowing as they are pledged to do. Look out for better pay rises for the public sector in April as just one item.

This is what worries me. He may continue to spash out money in a hope to win the election. There is still a lot the Tories have to do if they are to win. Labour has 335 seats to the Tories 198.
231

Salmond Rushdie,

07/11/2008 09:39:07
This result is a real thumping for the SNP, regardless of any of the excuses that are given. As Glasgow East changed the political landscape at the time, so does the Glenrothes by-election.

Alex Salmond has got to deliver to the people of Scotland on all that he has spouted forth about. He has declared he wants to deliver a better deal for the HBOS takeover. 'Deliver it Alex' The people of Scotland are waiting. Brown has already delivered his proposal in the form of a Lloyds TSB takeover. What is this better deal that Salmond keeps banging on about?
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Embra Don,

07/11/2008 09:39:08
#295.... "wee" Jack!
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Salmond Rushdie,

07/11/2008 09:40:49
#297

How do you solve one of the worse economic downturns by not spending money?
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AJ Fife,

07/11/2008 09:41:04
300!!!
235

BorderLineScottish,

07/11/2008 09:41:18
224
Nevsky

"It's a by-election in Fife that is all.

In fact if the SNP had won i would have been happy but attached little significance to it"

Not the impression you've been giving us from your well-placed vantage point in (Mc)Moscow!

Why don't you go back to Scotland and actually contribute to the economy?

But that's the problem on here, too many people spouting their claptrap from points on the globe, so remote, that their opinions count for nothing.

Go home and then make your point.
236

Xena - Warrior Princess,

07/11/2008 09:41:25
Those posters on here that belittle and call voters numpties, thick etc., ad nauseum, because they voted Labour are the reason that people are turning away from the SNP, who would want to be associated with that?
237

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 09:42:47
291 sm753.5
"It wasnt Alex Salmond who invested millions of tax payers money into Icelandic banks it was the UK government"

No it wasn't the UK govt - it was individual counclis and other bodies. The govt advised them to put their money where they could get a good return but did not tell them specifically to put it into Icelandic banks.
238

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 09:42:58
I think most of us got it wrong - even those who thought it might be close. Labour increased their share by 3% and comfortably held on despite the SNP throwing everything including the kitchen sink at Labour. For the SNP it is not a disaster but it should give them pause for thought.

The reasons why they did not make the big break-through are complex but I'll try to give my thoughts on why they lost.

The SNP still try to fight elections as the opposition and, as we saw here, that is no longer the case in Scotland. The consequence of at least one policy contributed to their downfall here. The council tax freeze may be nationally a popular move but at a local level councils are finding it hard to implement. It was easy for Labour to attack the local Lib Dem/SNP coalition for charges for local services - charges I believe are a direct result of freezing the Council Tax. If they want to avoid this issue happening again then serious consideration is going to have to be given to the block grant levels that councils receive. That in itself may have implications for funding other Scottish Government priorities. Something will have to give - and it will not be the Council Tax freeze. I would expect some other SNP policy to be delayed or even abandoned altogether to keep their flagship policy intact.

Another issue is undoubtedly was independence. I have been derided here for pointing out that Labour would try to use the global financial crisis and events in countries such as Iceland for their own political benefit. Whether events in Iceland (or Hungary, Ukraine etc) have a direct correlation to Scottish independence is irrelevant (I personally don't think they do). The perception is that they do and the SNP have only themselves to blame. Salmond set himself up for a fall with his Arc of Prosperity speech. The SNP need to start making the case for Scottish independence purely in Scottish terms not on what another country has done.

(to be continued)
239

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 09:43:18
(continued)

That brings us to the third area - oil. The last month or so has shown that economies who rely heavily on a particular natural resource suffer due to fluctuating commodity prices. Here in Scotland some are beginning to realise the fallacy of SNP economic policy that is built on the price of oil. The SNP were fine when oil prices were at a high level but now at the low price levels we have now their argument has been undermined. The SNP need to take oil out of the argument and make the case that economic independence is possible whether or not we have oil. That means they really do need to make a reassessment of their policies for a post-independence Scotland.

The truth is that if the SNP are going to win an independence referendum they have a long way to go to convince the agnostics in the electorate. They need to make a much more subtle case that the one they have made thus far.
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07/11/2008 09:44:52
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Highland Mist,

07/11/2008 09:45:10
#259 Shaken, not a clue what you're on about.

Just glad to see a good man win a seat in the area I live in, he'll do a good job although KDY High will miss his services. But thank God the consituents saw through the arrogance of the SNP campaign and all that it stood for.

Salmond's decision to abolish the Forth Bridge tolls and make life for commuters to and from Fife WORSE as well as stopping plans for a rail link to the Airport have backfired on him.

#294, Labour won, SNP & the others lost - that's democracy in action and one helluva blow to the supercillious SNP attitude towards the voters in Scotland. The automatically assumed they were going to win and they've been sent packing.
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Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 09:47:02
300 Salmond Rushdie
And how do you solve a problem of high borrowing by borrowing more. What Brown and Darling are doing is the equivalent of opening a new credit card account because you have reached your credit limit on the existing one - a temporary solution which makes things worse in the long run.
243

,

07/11/2008 09:47:36
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Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 09:49:49
I cannot believe that people have been stupid enough to vote for a party that has not only destroyed the economy of this country, but has removed a great many freedoms from it's population.

This is a convincing case for meritocracy if there ever was one. It proves beyond doubt that people should have to qualify intellectually in order to be able to vote.
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Ugly George,

07/11/2008 09:49:50
306 The federalist
"The SNP were fine when oil prices were at a high level but now at the low price levels we have now their argument has been undermined. The SNP need to take oil out of the argument and make the case that economic independence is possible whether or not we have oil"

I agree absolutely. Scotland has to achieve a strong economy without oil acting as some kind of fiscal viagra.
246

Alan B,

07/11/2008 09:50:50
#297 Ugly George

Remember the tories won the popular vote in England last time round. They lost the number of seats becuase of the unfair way they were cut up. This has I believe been rectified.


I do not think people in England are generally that positive about the tories. But I do not think they will back labour when the true extent of the economic meltdown becomes apparent.

Labour have done an excellent propoganda spin that the economic meltdown is not their fault. But when we continue to see the UK hit worse than the other countries. With continued IMF reports of the mess of the UK.

I do not think people quite realise the complete mess Brown has burdened the economy with.

I think the next election will be won by the sheer anger the english electate will have for Brown. This meltdown will not be like the 80s recessions. This will hit the south. And when the south are hurt they will hit out at labour.

Look at what happened to the tories. The south were happy to vote tory when the north of Britain was in deep economic brown stuff. But when a mild recession compared to this one hit the south in the early 90s it took a decade for england to look like going back to the tories.

Wait until national debt hits record levels, they are talking in the next few yrs of it going from 40% to 60%. Wait until mass unemployment hits. How are they going to fund the huge growth in welfare? The fiscal side is a shambles. Wait for an angry middle class. Wait for the press to run stories about pensioners crying as they are let with little.

The only chance Brown has I think is to cut and run for an election before the brown stuff really hits with mass meltdown.

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07/11/2008 09:51:44
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248

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 09:51:48
310 sm753.5
But the govt did not put any money into those banks as you claimed - only other bodies
249

Publius,

London 07/11/2008 09:52:18
Some thoughts on Glenrothes.
(1) I am disappointed. I would have voted SNP.
(2) A period of silence from SNP contributors to this board would be welcome. Your attacks on the intelligence, morals and integrity of the people of Glenrothes are disgraceful. They will bring the SNP into disrepute.
(3) The SNP should think very carefully before choosing any more councillors as candidates for Westminster or Holyrood. There is little evidence that SNP councillors are any better than the Labour hacks who used to control Scottish councils. Scotland deserves better. The best people in Scotland are certainly not to be found in councils.
(4) The SNP needs to think again about expenditure and taxation. LIT. Abolition of tolls on bridges. And others. The SNP needs to rethink the lot.
(5) As things stand there is very little chance of winning an independence referendum in 2010, even if the bill does get through Holyrood.
(6) Labour is NOT out of the wood. The economy is going down the pan...and the UK government should (will?) take the blame.
(4)
250

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07/11/2008 09:52:21
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Dave,

Western Isles 07/11/2008 09:52:23
304 + 310

It was John Prescot who urged the councils et al to spread thier cash after the BCCI disaster.

Nobody specifically said "go with Iceland".

Ach, maybe it's a good thing to stick with the Union. Quite happy to bleed England dry of her cash, so long as we get our way.
252

Doh,

07/11/2008 09:53:19


This was a great result for Labour and a disaster for Britain.

Now Labour have a mandate for tax breaks for nondoms,
introduce ID cards and 42-day detention, close Post Offices and spin like crazy.

A victory for fear over hope.
253

ES10,

Linlithgow 07/11/2008 09:53:25
To the people of Glenrothes:
You have let your country down...and by country I don't just mean Scotland - I mean the whole of the UK...it's such a pity that you have had no courage but have opted for more of the old same torture ...
254

mike3,

Midlands 07/11/2008 09:54:52
So much for a Salmond forecast. Is he living in a bubble or telling porkies? Might just have gone over the top once too often.
255

Ananurhing,

07/11/2008 09:55:31
#276 Duncan

I'm not buying into anyone else's version of anything.
Labour ran a very negative campaign, and it worked for them. I accept that.

Keep this in perspective though. The SNP are still in the accendant. Labour are still on the ropes in Scotland and the UK. With each thud of Broon's bounce, the height regained diminishes. Labour will lose the next westminster GE. Labour would lose a Holyrood election right now. You deal with it!
256

,

07/11/2008 09:56:19
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257

mike3,

07/11/2008 09:57:14
#318 So parasites it is then?
258

Alan B,

07/11/2008 09:57:16
#Salmond Rushdie

"How do you solve one of the worse economic downturns by not spending money?"

I thinkt the problem is Brown has devastated the economy so much we are dammed if we do and dammed if we don't.

Spending money in a downturn is a good idea. That is why you run surplus's in good times. As brown said you do not borrow over the economic cycle. Problem was he was all talk and lies. He has borrowed good times running up big deficits.

A such we are in a complete and utter shambles now the downturn started.

It is always easier to run a tight ship economy than have to rescue a sinking titanic.

The phrase "were doomed comes to mind".
259

Ugly George,

07/11/2008 10:02:33
317 753.5
Let me get this right. I expressed the view that Scotland should have a strong economy without having to rely on oil. You described this as "garbage and wishful thinking"

You are obviously saying that Scotland can only have a strong economy if it depends on oil. That is surely not a good situation to be in as production of oil is falling year by year.
260

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 10:03:12
I recall Salmond saying a few days ago 'we will win Glenrothes'.

Is he now going to issue a public apology for lying?
261

Publius,

London 07/11/2008 10:03:45
#323 Magnum Oplus

Hello Minimum Ominus
I work for a Scottish company in London. Our company generates a lot of business in Scotland.
I get back to Scotland whenever I can. Most weekends will find me in Ayrshire.
I suggest you lay off the personal attacks.
262

Alan B,

07/11/2008 10:04:50
#Magnum Oplus

You ask Publius
"You list your location as London. Are you one of these people who would do anything for Scotland except live there?"

Or maybe he is one of there people who is forced down to London to get a decent job. Maybe he does not want to have a Big Mac job. Put his hand out for the tax payer to pay his way.

I know the reason i have had to leave return, leave and return to scotland is because of the poor jobs market in scotland as labour and the tories run scotland down. In labours case run down the whole uk.

I spend the whole of the 90s after i graduated in London because the job market in scotland was so poor. In this decade is it go to Ireland or London with afew years in scotland in the middle.

Why i am so angry about his result is that with labour makeing a complete hash of the economy I can foresee having to p*** of somewhere again. And with a kid and a partner that i brought up from london who took ages to get a job up here even with a phd that is not something i relish.

263

Anne, Glasgow,

07/11/2008 10:06:29
I too thought Jim Sillars talked a lot of sense last night in saying that Gordon Brown may have RETAINED this seat but when the recession bites in as in next year, Brown's bounce will begin to disappear. As for Linsay Roy, I was stunned that he didn't appear to know which were Westminster issues and which were Holyrood issues. I suspect he is another SCOTTISH LABOUR MP who will be used as voting fodder in Westminster.
264

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:07:08
This is not a triumph for Labour, it's a temporary sigh of nervous relief. Wait till next year, this is just a blip.
The SNP - more substance, less flannel.
265

,

07/11/2008 10:09:38
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266

brownlie,

07/11/2008 10:10:13
I have a sinking feeling that, as the recession bites and the UK, and the general public, goes further into debt, the voters of Glenrothes will very soon regret placing their trust in New Labour.

I am not particularly surprised by the result due to the proximity of Brown's strong-hold, the fact that he is a Fifer and the fact that Labour's main weapon, aided and abetted by the news media, was to generate spurious fear in the elderly, the disabled, their relatives and the general public.

What I am surprised about is that the Tory and Lib Dems who lost their deposits, instead of looking for a reason, seem to be gloating in the fact that the SNP have only taken second place.

How ironic that the party who took most votes from them are "rejecting Alex Salmond" and "the juggernaut has been stopped in it's tracks".

If that is the case, why did they not take votes from the SNP and where on earth are they in the race?

I note a whole lot of "Labourites" who, thankfully, have been absent for a while have come back on this site to "sing while you're winning".

I think that, as events unfold, they will soon be posted absent again.
267

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 10:10:31
#322 Sturgeon's claims of a negative campaign from Labour are not borne out by the facts. And your assertion that Labour would lose a Holyrood election today is certainly not borne out by the result in Glenrothes, which would in fact have overturned many of the gains made by the SNP last time, and since the SNP only has one seat more than Labour, you are dead wrong.
268

Rob,

07/11/2008 10:11:14
Much as I hate Labour winning anything, as the lesser of two evils this is a highly significant day for Scotland - a very, very good day for Scotland and its people. This was an election about real issues - issues that effect everyone in Scotalnd and UK - rather than for a list of cheap shot giveaways which are bandied out in Salmond's programme of provocations against Westminster. The Scottish people aren't and never have been fooled by Salmond's brand of envy politics and this result shows what happens on real issues.

I'm sure we all look forward to the ongoing "national conversation" with confidence but we may need to be aware that the ringmaster may suddenly have a severe problem with deafness to add to the obvious deformity of his vision.

The sooner we have the referendum the better.


269

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 10:13:12
#57 Guga

"could you please take off your New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party badge for a minute and tell us how Labour winning with a greatly reduced majority constitutes either an "emphatic victory" or a "decisive win" for them?"

Because just a few weeks ago Labour were miles behind in the polls and with the bookies.

"The New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party only won due to the fact that you can sometimes get away with fooling most of the people most of the time."

Perhaps you should take a leaf out of John McCain's book and show some grace in defeat.

Your attitude towards the people of Glenrothes is disgusting - no doubt if they had voted SNP you would be lauding their intellect, but because they voted Labour they are 'thick'.
270

DaveK,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:13:46
We didn't and wont see Salmond for a little bit over this one, as he needs to get the spin just right. He has finally worked out that you have to enagage brain, long before mouth and will have to find some way of passing this off as a victory, whilst at the same time admitting defeat. Either way, his time would be better spent serving the people of Scotland, fulfilling his manifesto promises and not eating on camera at every given opportunity - he looks like he's turning into and Irn Bru sausage. The Labour candidate did look like a bit of a wreck, but a little more humility and far less smugness from the SNP in future. Please don't take the electorate for granted, they will bite yer flabby @rse.
271

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:14:26
Lindsay Roy, one of the best rectors in Scotland, and quite inarticulate - astounding. I can't imagine choosing him as my advocate or representative - unless I didn't know any better. But congratulations.
If I remember rightly, when the Glasgow Esat by election took place we heard the speech after the poll from Mason, then from Curran on the BBC. But last night, we heard only Roy, and then they cut Peter Grant out.
272

The Strategist,

07/11/2008 10:15:53
#312

The main reason that the oil price has fallen is the drop in demand caused by the economic downturn. As the downturn becomes a full blown recession it is possible that the oil price could fall even further although the UK's position will not be helped by the dollar/pound exchange rate which is of course moving against us.

There is a possibility that the recent decision by OPEC to reduce production will help push the oil price
back up although the jury is out on that for the moment.

On the other hand the decrease in the oil price is currently quite helpful as it has impacted positively on fuel prices although of course tax is by far the larger part of the cost per litre and Gordon Brown does not appear willing to reduce that.

However - once the recession is over then the oil price will soar on a combination of increasing demand and the lower investment in new projects which is what is happening now.

Consequently, the argument that a lower oil price means Scottish independence is no longer viable is something you can only argue for a relatively short period of time. Thereafter, some analysts believe the price could easily "overshoot" to hit $200.

All that said it would be sensible not to rely on oil as a "fiscal viagra" but to follow the excellent example of our Norwegian friends who are very rapidly developing a highly diversified economy.

Important to remind ourselves for example that Norway is now building electric cars and it looks very likely that the first tidal current turbines to be deployed in Scotland will be a Norwegian design.

Would that Scotland be in such a strong position to exploit the changes in the energy sector and others.
273

paulr,

edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:17:23
Oh come on,
this is glenrothes in fife we are talking about.....
not exactly a hotbed of intelectual exellence, dummy central more like.
274

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 10:19:51
#340 Using oil as an electoral weapon is a double-edged sword - fine when oil prices are how but leaves you open to attack when oil prices are low. the SNP would be better seeing oil for what it is - a bonus - and not the panacea to all our problems.
275

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:23:30
335:
The Labour campaign was obviously very diverting.
Holyrood and Westminster elections are not the same thing - so a bit of wishful thinking there. There is no evidence yet that the voters have stopped differentiating between them - only the candidates.
276

Alan B,

07/11/2008 10:26:11
#The Federalist

"the SNP would be better seeing oil for what it is - a bonus - and not the panacea to all our problems."

I think they do. They do not use oil in the same was the snp did in the 70/80s. Oil is more used and talked about on this forum than by the snp. Independence is aswell.

However the bigger picture about the economy is. Scotland have had a poor economy for more than 30yrs. Slighty better in the last decade but in a good global climate. The uk is going into economic meltdown which is so severe that it will take a good 5yrs to get over. And Scotland is in very poor comparitive position to withstand this meltdown.

The economic meltdown will probably mean independence does not get off the ground. But scotland will suffer severely possibly in the same way as the 80s. Scotland will lose any of the economic confidence that that were starting to appear.
277

Salmond Rushdie,

07/11/2008 10:36:17
The SNP have seen nothing yet as far as getting a political kicking in Scotland goes. If they proceed with with LIT, every hard working family that loses out of LIT will vote against LIT. Don't believe the SNP when they say the LIT rate is 3p - it won't be. Far more people will lose out.
278

Ananurhing,

07/11/2008 10:36:42
#335 What facts? Can you quote anything positive in Labour's campaign message? Linsay Roy didn't know when to stop. Even his acceptance speech was negative from start to finish. What local facts do you refer to? They're not borne out by constituents I've spoken to. Most pundits have expressed surprise that Labours negative campaigning worked for them. What do you know that the rest of us don't?

In Glenrothes there was a 6% swing to the SNP. Salmond still enjoys massive approval ratings. Polls show increased support for the SNP since they came to power.
Agreed this is a massive blow to the SNP, but it's in no way indicitive of a downturn for them.
279

Ugly George,

edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:36:57
340 The Strategist
"example of our Norwegian friends who are very rapidly developing a highly diversified economy."

That is my point. Even the most ardent nationalist has to accept that the economy of Scotland is not viable as an independent entity without oil revenues. But North Sea oil production is declininig and its price (as we have seen) is volatile. It may, at some stage, spike again to a high value but is this really beneficial. The evidence of the spike to $140+ in the summer illustrated that this merely results in a sharp fall in demand which then brings the price back down.

Also, as you implied, a high price stimulates more investment to produce more thus bringing the price back down. Another aspect which has to be considered is who are the big losers if the price of oil is high -it is not so much the American in his gas-guzzling 4x4. He can easily cut back. The real losers are developing countries who cannot maintain their basic infrastructure and others who suffer as a result of the consequent faltering of economic growth.
280

vimto,

07/11/2008 10:43:14
To all snp supporters. Last nights result put any talk of INDEPENDENCE back 30 years,hope you all have a good day!
281

Alfie the OK,

England 07/11/2008 10:43:56
Rats! This is a very bad result for freedom... (Particularly mine and 50 million others down here south of the border).

Roy fought the campaign on LOCAL Glenrothes issues, knowing full well that he can do bu**er-all about those issues (which are all devolved to the Scots parliament) at Westminster.

His Action Plan was full of commitments he cannot possibly fulfill - as they are the responsibility of the local MSP and the Scots Parliament.

Still, now he has got his feet under the table at Westminster, no doubt he will be genning up on the stuff he CAN vote on and 'make a difference'... Namely, all those local issues in England. Oh yes, I look forward to the Royster interfering in my everyday life at every opportunity in my Lancashire village from now on....

Ain't democracy wonderful? (So they tell me).
282

Finnzz,

07/11/2008 10:44:23
#304 Ugly George said

"The govt advised them to put their money where they could get a good return but did not tell them specifically to put it into Icelandic banks."

Councils took the advice of UK Government-approved financial advisor 'Sectory Treasury Services Ltd' who advised that Landsbanki was a good bet for 'short-term maturities'.

This advice was contained in their September credit-ratings bulletin.

Got any more duff info to post?
283

Alan B,

07/11/2008 10:50:50
#Ugly George

"Even the most ardent nationalist has to accept that the economy of Scotland is not viable as an independent entity without oil revenues"

So what is the choice. Continue to run the economy into the ground like the last 30yrs. If the scottish economy is not viable that is a real inditement of the current mess of the scottish economy.

I personally cannot see any other way other than independence as the union simply has failed to deliver for scotland time and time again.

Why should so many of our graduates have to leave scotland just to get on (or go into a public sector job).
284

vimto,

07/11/2008 10:52:11
Funny how salmond is quite for a change,must be in a darkened room in bute house licking his wounds.
285

Embra Don,

07/11/2008 11:12:18
345 Salmond Rushdie,
Working families? By then Browns recession will be a full blown depression - we will be lck if there are any working families.
286

Embra Don,

07/11/2008 11:13:44
349 Alfie the OK
Anyone ask him if he was in favour of Trident?
287

Embra Don,

07/11/2008 11:32:49
So - how will Scotland achieve a stronger economy while it continues to be asset stripped by Westminster?
While we continue to vote unionist we will continue to get what we have always got. A weak economy despite our resources, cringe and subvervience.
288

,

07/11/2008 11:33:52
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289

vimto,

07/11/2008 11:52:43
356.Excuse me! Labour has just won in case you didnae notice,don't think these papers are going bust just yet.
290

vimto,

07/11/2008 12:02:03
Salmond has just said Labour "over campaigned" how in hell can you over campaign! what a fat,bitter,self opinionated t-at he is.
291

vimto,

07/11/2008 12:06:14
355. Don't talk so much c-rap,you seem to have a bad case of verbal diarrhea.
292

,

07/11/2008 12:08:18
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293

,

07/11/2008 12:12:42
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294

,

07/11/2008 12:14:52
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,

07/11/2008 12:24:10
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Yeah1,

07/11/2008 12:30:28
#363

Alex Salmond lied too - he said 'we will win' - that was a lie wasn't it?
297

,

07/11/2008 12:39:19
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298

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 07/11/2008 13:04:03
Bye Bye Gnats. The bubble has truly burst and oblivion beckons !! Excellent result and we look forward to an early Labour "Executive" to replace the so called SNP "Government". Well done boys.
299

Joe McLaine,

07/11/2008 13:22:31
To all you sporran wielding gnats....


I am deeply surprised that SNP supporters are such bad losers, especially as they have had so much practice at it.

I have never heard such a bunch of tantrum-throwing whingers since the England Argentina match of 1986, and those whingers actually had something legitimate to complain about.

A message to the SNP support: You offered your services and Glenrothes said "No." Get over it. Stop whinging. It just makes you look even less like a party worthy of our votes.
300

salmondella,

England 07/11/2008 13:23:52
The beginning of the end of the SNP and the claim by Salmond et al that an independent Scotland would be better off than it is now by going alone. You write of Labour at your peril as the Tories have discovered more than once.
301

vimto,

07/11/2008 14:28:13
330. Don't take kindly to a few home trths i see,never mind you'll get used to them with salmond spouting his garbage.
Bye the way i'm a she,so playing with my"jobbies" is impossible!
302

Ananurhing,

07/11/2008 14:38:22
My goodness! Real bottom of the barrel scraping, unionist gloating going on here.

Vimtottie's the only one that's mentioned that Labour have won!

"The bubble's burst, the beginning of the end, stinky Salmond lied too, so ya boo sucks!"

Real goonie half doon stuff guys! A mental condition normally associated with the McCringing classes! Not one of you actually celebrating anything!
Negative campaigning gone mad I tell you!!!
303

westview,

Looking forward 07/11/2008 14:39:37
This election was won by fear. Voters chose British chains and slavery over freedom. This time . But the fight for freedom goes on . It will not stop. It never has in the whole history of the human race!
304

westview,

Still here 07/11/2008 14:46:13
Thank you to the THOUSANDS of braveheart voters in Glenrothes who did cut Browns majority.
305

Ananurhing,

07/11/2008 14:47:41
Haven't heard this much negative air punching unionist glee since the HBOShit hit the fan!
306

vimto,

07/11/2008 14:52:39
339/340.Labour won that's all that matters,we don't need to play the hooray card,we just have quite satisfaction of knwing salmond and co are on their way out.
307

Ananurhing,

07/11/2008 14:57:10
#341 westview.

And thank you to all the people who voted SNP, especially the new ones that made up the 6% swing to the SNP! Welcome!! It wasn't quite enough this time but it was progress! Plenty time.

Saw a bit of Salmond's press conference today. I thought he was refreshingly frank, honest, and humble about what is a bitter disappointment to him. Quite statesman like. Stark contrast to creepy Murphy's baiting and gloating! He chills me!
308

Bewildered,

Glasgow 07/11/2008 15:04:51
What a joy it was to watch Ms Sturgeon squirm on TV last night when it became clear that the SNP were about to lose. Perhaps she and her smarmy boss will realise that people in Scotland are interested in serious politics and serious politiclans and are not taken in by the easy populist decision they have made since election, particularly in the Health Service.
309

vimto,

07/11/2008 15:05:52
And a big THANK YOU to all Labour loyalists who stayed true to the party. we are in difficult times not only in the UK but world wide,with Gordon Brown we have a leader with compassion,but not afraid to make the decisions needed to keep our country on track,once again many thanks, Labour has heard your message and will act on it.
310

Ananurhing,

07/11/2008 15:10:07
#345

I rest my case! Not quite "ode to joy" is it?
311

Finlang,

Switzerland 07/11/2008 15:20:13
#110 Churchill W.,
"Mocking people with a speech impediment is unbecoming of even you."

(Seems like the reference numbers to these posts above and beyond have gone askew, but this is to the original #110 - Churchill.)

Exactly who are these imaginary "people with a speech impediment" that you allege I am "mocking". Are you really unable to tell the difference between a nodding-dog-puppet in a telly ad and a real person? Your juvenile playground posts say it all, trollboy.
312

Bewildered,

Glasgow 07/11/2008 15:33:14
No 344
If this election has caused Mr Salmond to be humble it will have been a wonderful achievement, hopefully a lasting one.
313

vimto,

07/11/2008 15:47:58
349. I think we both know Salmond doesn't do "humble",at present he is in shock,he truly though he could win but give it a day or two and he'll be back to his obnoxious self.
314

Chris42,

07/11/2008 16:00:25
Ugly George 266 "There will be a recession but a lot depends on how he and Darling splash out (yet more) borrowing as they are pledged to do. Look out for better pay rises for the public sector in April as just one item"

National strike by civil servants over pay planned for Monday was today called off after Govt said it wanted to restart talks with PCS Union.
315

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07/11/2008 16:10:02
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316

DavidFife,

Methil 07/11/2008 17:24:02
The fact is that this was far from a glorious victory for the New Labour Party. The part of Fife where this bi-election took place was a vote for a seat in the English parliament at Westminster (which still insists on controlling certain aspects of other countries and other peoples rights).

People in Fife have little confidence in that parliament, but want to have a say in matters that are discussed there, as long as they interfere with us. Unfortunately the long ingrained sticking with what is known was almost an inevitability. This constituency has a high level of unemployment. With unemployment often comes depression. The low turnout of voters might have been something to do with that.

Apparently there was quite a lot of nasty aggressive door chapping combined with subsequent arguments on the doorstep on the day of the vote. Labour Party jackals were using insulting attitudes towards people suggesting in no uncertain terms that people were being treacherous by not going out and voting Labour.

They were putting labour voters off - or should I say - socially minded egalitarians were being spat upon.

The original labour party of Kier Hardie is long gone and non-socialist New-Labour has stolen it's garments.

The Scottish National Party is much more credible - it is "The Scottish Party" and I humbly predict that it will be better supported at the next Westminster general election by the (almost 50% of) people that didn't vote on the 6th of November and by a majority (almost 50%) of the people who did vote.

The people of The Wemmys, Buckhaven, Methil, Kennoway, Cardenden, Kinglassie, Leslie, Markinch, Balgonie, Thornton, Star, Glenrothes and all points in between or nearby will collectively consider what is the right way to vote at the next election. Fifers are renowned for knowing their own minds, so, fellow fifers lets make this a mere embarrassment and lets decide to get up on our pins the next time and make our collective voice ring out.
317

Exasperated,

Guildford 07/11/2008 20:08:58
Scots have shown once again there's a lot of talk but nothing in the trousers. The Fifers fell for Labours scare mongering & blatant lies - school budget cuts just being one of them. They knew that they could count on the Glenrothes public succumbing to fear if they emphasised the negative often enough. Bravehearts? Don't make me laugh, fainthearts prevail again..... fear is the key factor. Again.
318

Boab,

Glasgow 07/11/2008 20:16:50
#355 Exasperated: Very true, my man. Scots are indeed spineless and naive for believing Labour spin yet again.

Shame you had to throw in that Braveheart barb. Maybe you should make an English version, where a terribly nice, floppy-haired chap frees you all from the Scottish yoke? Best of luck.
319

Boab,

Glasgow 07/11/2008 20:19:01
#354 Happy English: 'The English have taken the banks right from under SNP noses and did you hear anything from Salmond NOPE'

Er, do you get newspapers in Kent? Check again please.
320

Boab,

07/11/2008 20:23:32
#343 Vimto: It is sort of touching how people keep on voting for Labour, given recent events. Bit like going on buying Oasis albums, just in case they make a good one again.
321

vimto,

07/11/2008 21:13:54
355. There is one thing people in the north of England and Scotland have in common,we both think people in the south are t=ats! you have just enforced that conclusion.
322

vimto,

07/11/2008 21:17:05
358. Seems more like common sense to me,salmond is a spent force all mouth and no substance.
323

Richard Lionheart,

08/11/2008 02:18:20
Dear God, please save the World from the self delusional Gordon Brown, who having spread the Gospel of the end of Boom and Bust throughout the universe, now thinks that speaking his empty meaningless words about helping ordinary people through the mess he has created means that he is the saviour of the World, amen.

 

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