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Glasgow East by-election: There are no safe Labour seats any more, says jubilant Salmond

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Published Date: 25 July 2008
FIRST Minister Alex Salmond said today that there were no safe Labour seats in Scotland in the wake of the SNP's victory in Glasgow East.
Mr Salmond hailed a "sensational" by-election victory for his party, with Nationalist John Mason overturning a Labour majority of 13,507.

The results would not force Prime Minister Gordon Brown into calling a General Election, Mr Salmond said.

The First Minister, speaking at a press conference at a shopping centre in the constituency, insisted that voters in Glasgow East had sent a message to Mr Brown.

He said: "That message is 'change your policy or change your job'.
"I watched Conservative Party leader David Cameron this morning. All he could think about was an imminent General Election.

"I've got bad news for David – I don't think there's going to be an imminent General Election somehow.

"What we need for the people of the country is a change of policy. We can't allow the country to drift into recession.

"We need action – action against the rising prices which are hitting family budgets, action against the energy costs, action to inject more demands into the economy.

"That's the changes that are required and that's what the SNP will be using its political influence to secure."

The First Minister said the people of Glasgow East now had an "outstanding" MP in Mr Mason.

"We have now demonstrated that there are no safe seats for the Labour Party anywhere in Scotland," he said.

Yesterday's by-election had been a "test of strength" between the Labour Government at Westminster and his Holyrood administration.

"It was London Labour that was found wanting and the SNP in Scotland that emerged victorious," said the First Minister.

He pledged that the SNP would "march to the sound of the priorities of the people of Scotland".

He continued: "If we keep doing that then we're going to take some stopping come the General Election, the Scottish elections to come and the independence referendum in 2010."

Mr Mason said that, by electing him, "the people of Glasgow East have spoken for the whole of the country".

"We have sent a message to Gordon Brown. It's time for action, time for him to listen."

The new MP called on the Prime Minister to take action to reduce the price of fuel and the cost of energy.

When asked if he would like a General Election to be called, Mr Mason said: "I think I've been elected for a purpose.

"The first purpose was to send a message to Gordon Brown. We want the Government to change direction.

"It's not about a question of who is in the Government, it's about a better behaviour on the part of the Government towards the people.

"The personal challenge for me now is to work really hard for the next 18 months or whatever it is and build up a relationship with the people of the east end."

Mr Mason went on: "They've been missing that, I would have to say, with their MP for a number of years.

"That's a new thing and I would actually like 18 months to do that."

The full article contains 538 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging around 25/07/2008 13:41:52
It seems that the only safe seat in Scotland for Labour is that of Michael Martin, Speaker of the House as, traditionally, the Speaker is unopposed by the main parties. Of course, if Mr. Martin should decide that he wants to stand down at the end of the Parliament, then all bets, as the saying goes, would be off. Even if there were a rally by Labour in Scotland, the likelihood is that our neighbours in England would take decisive action and vote out a large number of Labour members in 2010... unless the election is called next year, of course!
2

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 25/07/2008 13:46:45
Meanwhile the rumbling is beginning to start:

"The Cabinet must tell Gordon Brown it’s time to quit, a Labour MP said today, beginning what is expected to become a clamour for his resignation.

Graham Stringer said that it was time for a “new start” in the wake of the loss of Labour’s 25th safest seat, Glasgow East, in yesterday’s by-election. "

3

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 25/07/2008 13:51:36


Certainly, no direct extrapolation from a by-election ever works -

BUT - all labour Seats ARE within reach of the SNP as -

the loud CRASH that some may have heard was the westminster GLASS CEILING shattering and falling in bits to the ground. There, these shards of glass will mix with the shards from the shattered Holyrood GLASS CEILING that was broken last May.

The poll ratings for Holyrood have taken off since last May and we can now expect the poll ratings for westminster to do likewise. Curran did her lying, scaremongering worst and the electorate saw it for what it was. No one is scared of Independence...many may not want it yet...but it IS now an option to be considered and not feared. More progress!!

Oh, and as for some claiming that this is just Salmond and the SNP enjoying a honeymoon...how can this be when the press are all unionist and, more importantly, Salmond has been First Minister for LONGER than Brown has been Prime Minister!!

Roll on 2010!!


4

glenboy,

Greenock 25/07/2008 13:56:23
Richly deserved kicking. Perhaps now they will listen to the electorate. We can only hope. Though Mr Brown seems to be saying buisness as usual. NOT what we want to hear.
5

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25/07/2008 14:01:48
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David MacVicar,

web 25/07/2008 14:06:26
A Historic win and a win for Glqgow East and the whole of Scotland.

The political change across Scotland continues unabated and this Earthquake is but a fore shock.
Speaking of Shock Glen Campbell sporting his wee Labour red tie is pretty shell shocked today and totally gutted.
Much like the Brit Scot media who couldn't even think of a question to ask Salmond at the Press conference this morning.

The corrupt and incompetent Labour and an incompetent and biased Scottish press are stunned.
Read my lips: Your days are numbered and your downfall continues unabated.
7

Macuistean,

On holiday in France 25/07/2008 14:08:26
How many Labour MSP's will find nationalistic beliefs and try to cross the floor at Hollyrood?
8

Man of Reason,

25/07/2008 14:20:42
There's no doubt that Labour have lost all direction under Brown, but the SNP still haven't had to make any really difficult decisions - it will be interesting to see how they get on when this happens.

Also, Alex Salmond is head and shoulders above the rest of the Scottish Parliament, but he won't be around for ever. I'm not convinced that support for the current SNP Government necessarily means support for independence.
9

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25/07/2008 14:26:48
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10

Man of Reason,

25/07/2008 14:30:30
#9 I find it somewhat sinister that you are drawing up lists. I sincerely hope you never find out these people's real identities and home addresses.
11

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25/07/2008 14:38:01
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12

eiso,

sunny shropshire 25/07/2008 14:53:23
#16 naw it doesnae
13

Man of Reason,

25/07/2008 15:01:37
#15

Yes, I get the point, but the triumphalism of SNP activists does sometimes leave a bad taste.

The very fact that this poster could reel off a list of those who disagreed with him is slightly disturbing - presumably he has maintained this list off-line. Shades of the black shirts. Or Old Firm supporters.

Alex Salmond manages to rise above this but the SNP is a broad church and there has always been this slightly nasty element in their support.

By contrast, I find Labour activists to be just plain incompetent.
14

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25/07/2008 15:03:32
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25/07/2008 15:03:40
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25/07/2008 15:04:26
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25/07/2008 15:04:32
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25/07/2008 15:04:36
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25/07/2008 15:04:42
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25/07/2008 15:04:46
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25/07/2008 15:06:14
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StefanC,

Nicholasville, Kentucky 25/07/2008 15:09:54
Wow this is massive!! as an ex-pat looking in from abroad it seems everything is going the SNP's way. Good job!!
23

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 25/07/2008 15:16:52
28 - until they see through Salmond's cheap nasty populism . I think there is going to be a big tory comeback soon in Scotland .
24

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25/07/2008 15:18:49
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25

Finnz,

North Sea 25/07/2008 15:20:42
At last now the populace is beginning to realise that a London government will always make decisions that benefit London first and foremost. A government in Scotland will always, without exception, look to Scotlands national interest first. Why any Scot would support a unionist party when the economics of it show its disadvantages beggers belief.
26

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25/07/2008 15:25:22
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27

Earman,

Dumfries 25/07/2008 15:32:03
That Mr Salmond is an exceptionally able politician is generally accepted, even amongst his opponents.

However, that does not make the SNP a "one-man band", and the reason for that is fairly straightforward: It is the natural way of things for Nations to be independent. Look around the world and you will find that there are very very few Nations being administered from outwith, and none clamouring to be governed by another.

It really is that simple, and that is why independence is inevitable, sooner or later.
28

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25/07/2008 15:47:00
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29

Brian M,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 15:47:26
Gordon Buffoon after losing Glasgow East- "We know that our role when facing global economic challenges is to be on the side of hard-working families, on the side of the people of Britain."

Good old Brown's Britain. He is an @rse, denying everything, doing nothing, it's all the fault of the global economy, he may be "on the side" but is doing nowt, and seen to be doing nowt
30

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25/07/2008 15:48:52
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31

Media 1,

cape town 25/07/2008 15:56:22
Labour are useless~ But the alternative is worse!
Scotland has gone from a sleeping labour to a freedom fighting anti Britain regime!
Gawd help Scotland
32

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25/07/2008 16:03:11
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33

Matt there,

Somewhere 25/07/2008 16:38:56
Gordon Borwn is behind every working family in Britain.

He is behind the as he pushes them forward, shouting: "YOU deal with the scary monsters of economic doom and recession! I'll be standing right behind you!"
34

radge dug,

25/07/2008 17:04:41
#38 - No. Labour supporters should now get behind independence. The 'UK' is an outdated and uneconomic dinosaur. Scotland as a small but productive nation should not be dragged down by London's obsession for war - Iraq, Afghanistan, Trident, new aircraft carriers (but no armour for the soldiers) etc...

Indpendence is the way forward.
35

Andrew Allan,

25/07/2008 17:10:00
I'm sorry but what total rubbish, Scotland isn't anti-British, we were calling ourselves northern british while a great deal of the little Englanders waved the union flag and called it, and themselves, English. What Scotland has started to realize is being more self-sufficient and pro-Scotland is paying more dividents than hoping one day the English will wake up and start treating us with some sort of equality.
36

slap-dash,

Border Patrol 25/07/2008 17:10:40
I honestly don`t think there is anything I can add to all the congratulations and thanks which has not already been said so, I`m just gonna sit here and gloat ! I know its wrong and it`s rude and I know you can not see me but . . . . . . . trust me . . . . .I`m grinning like a chimp ! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !


Slainte Mhor Y`all !
37

Nevsky,

Moscow 25/07/2008 17:42:24
28 voice of reason:

'I think there is going to be a big tory comeback soon in Scotland'

Really? You think a 22% swing to the Conservative Party in Scotland is imminent?

Won't hold my breath!
38

john z,

edinburgh 25/07/2008 17:52:17
Thank you the good people of Glasgow East.
39

john z,

edinburgh 25/07/2008 17:59:43
It's funny listening to the TV coverage last night, it seems that many in the Labour party believe that come the next general election for Westminster, the Labour vote will strengthen.

This is based upon the fact that historically many people in Scotland would vote Labour instead of SNP for a westminster general election, in order to prevent the tories 'getting in'.

But things have changed, the people of Scotland have seen how good it can be when they have a Scottish Government at Holyrood, that has the interest of Scotland at the top of their agenda.

It doesn't matter if it's SNP or not, people are liking having an extremely competent genuine Scottish Government at last, looking our for Scotland and the Scottish people.

Come the next general election, Labour would do well to not assume their vote will return, as many in Scotland really don't see the point of Westminster anymore, whether they support independence or not.

That is the reality in Scotland. That is the political earthquake.
40

Beergoggles,

England 25/07/2008 18:02:35
Great stuff! Another step forward for English independence too. Go the SNP.
41

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 18:09:25
Just a magnificent day to see these corrupt lazy Labour bigots thrown out of office - just wonderful! Perhaps now we can go forward as a country as opposed to being held back by incompetent 'leaders' ....

I would really like to see the government taking the lead and just saying 'no' to clearly insane EU legislation and to repeal some of the silly 'bans' and police practices that have been introduced over the last ten years along with getting rid of Tax camera's and other stealth tax means ... we can know for certain that Labour would have only added to our troubles here but I wonder if the SNP have the cahones to deconstruct the labour monster ? - Only time will tell ... but today I am over the moon that the Scottish people have kicked out Labour hopefully for good !
42

Senga Jean,

25/07/2008 18:11:39
~38 Media 1 How is Cape Town. Has your leader sorted Mugabe yet? Scotland does not need divine intervention it is doing just fine. The "divine" intervention that made us the richest European country in terms of resources is waiting REVELATION by the Scottish media. It will come. Perhaps not tomorrow or next month but it will come. Hallelujah!
43

Senga Jean,

25/07/2008 18:14:54
Media 1..I do know you are an atheist. I simply do not know.
44

Nevsky,

Moscow 25/07/2008 18:16:56
48:

There are a lot of English people saying this so exactly where is yourindependence movement?

I don't think you should hang on Scotlands coat tails for 'English Independence'!
45

kt mcallan,

SCOTLAND 25/07/2008 18:19:44
"Change your policy or change your job" well said First Minister!
46

kt mcallan,

scotland 25/07/2008 18:23:29
And may i just add how DELIGHTED i am to see the corrupt labour lot get booted out! Thank you people of Glasgow East, YOU HAVE DONE US ALL A FAVOUR and i, for one, am incredibly grateful.
47

Brian M,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 18:26:43
#47 "many in Scotland really don't see the point of Westminster anymore, whether they support independence or not"

You have hit the nail in the head there. Westminster government is really now an anachronisnm.

GB/UK/Whatever no longer applies. For instance the Welsh (of all parties) are more demanding and active for their country than the supine Scottish Labour drones for SWcotland.

Bring it on, as some forgotten (she hopes) Scottish politician said
48

Nevsky,

Moscow 25/07/2008 18:27:07
Mason will be a better MP for those people than anything Labour could provide.

Seems to me that labour in Scotland has nothing left, the barrel is empty as far as quallity candidates is concerned apart from Purcell but then he has more sense!
49

Nevsky,

leamington spa 25/07/2008 18:28:32
55:

Westminster does nothing that Scotland could not make a better job of and of that i am completely convinced!
50

Beergoggles,

25/07/2008 18:31:23
52
the English Democrats, of course ;) Get less than the Greens or BNP. They ignorantly seem to run on an anti-Scottish agenda (amongst other crass policies). For me Alex Salmond is right: go forward together as 2 seperate countries.

But you're right, there should be a more concerted effort south of the border. People just need to wake up.

Shame really. I always thought Britain was the 'original country', not England, Scotland, Wales or the UK. As in Ancient Britain. Still.
51

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/07/2008 18:32:54
5 friends of mine are just back from Corpach today, hey, hey, mind what you say.

Hamish tried to put a bet on the SNP to win the Glasgow East at a Ladbrokes in Fort William on Wednesday.

He was told that all bets on an SNP win had been suspended. Try again later.

On Thursday he tried a Ladbrokes in Oban - same story.

On both occasions Ladbrokes were still taking bets on Labour to win.

The Ladbrokes lady laughed when he asked if he could bet on Labour to lose.

What interests me is that there was no mention in the political or "news" sections of the media that I am aware of.

Can any punters enlighten me?
52

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/07/2008 19:14:22
Tried to post a comment on a story which had 1035 comments but actually does not accept posts after 1000.

What I was trying to post was,

Takes a while to sink in - eh no, Scotsman journalists?
53

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/07/2008 19:21:40
I was making love at 2am this morning and the earth moved as both of us had tsunamies at the same time.

Simultaneously even.
54

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/07/2008 19:23:43
As the Germans might say, if they could do bi-lingual puns, it registered on the Fichter scale.
55

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/07/2008 19:27:23
62 was actually tri-lingual.
56

puskas,

East kilbride 25/07/2008 19:28:13
Well a bit late but pretty tired after a furious working time in the East End..

Best wishes to Derek, Elaine from Edinburgh.
David, Dundee.
Brian, Paisley.
Richard, Whitehaven.
Gordon from Hamilton who litterly walked the soles from his shoes off.. Didn't keep the best of health but a great wee character.
Last but not least Gordon from Skelmorly (spelling) who was my partner on election day.
Everynone knew the importance of this by-election yet as each day arrived all the work was done with a smile on their faces. Unlike our opponents.
The Eastenders took part and some wonderful people were met during the campaign.
Gordon and myself knew things were tight but in Easterhouse where we were situated the response and vote to the SNP was more than breaking even.. Great bunch and a pleasure meeting the staff involved and obviously the voters.
Now this seat will be hard to win in the future but like every other town / area it rheir for the taking with hard work from all Nationalists..
My feelings out on the front line with probably a few thousand (at least) helpers was that the Labour party will not find this seat as easy to win back as they seem to think.
Baillieston ballot box when opened it seems was the turning point when our Party forced itself over the winning line. It has to be remembered that is Ms M Curran's ward/seat..
The Labour hiarchy can say what they wish regards their candidate but many ex-Labour voters had not only a loathing for the political party they once believed in their dislike for Curran was shown regularly.
Curtice and the rest of them blasting off on television early this morning should walk a little more than a few yards meeting the people ( that's if they ever did). The opinions given on national tele were all way off the mark on my experience in covering miles during recent weeks.
57

STATE SECURITY,

CARSTAIRS 25/07/2008 19:49:47
ATTENTION ATTENTION. It has come to our notice that the following may be in a state of confusion. If found please take them to the nearest A&E as a special unit is ready for them at The State Mental Hospital, Carstairs.


RS Gardener 1707
Tyrone Shoulders 2nd version
Dane Bramage SNP Insider,
Scottish 'N British
Free by '93,
Highland Mighty
Monkey man
kimba (very smelly, like a kipper box, foul mothed mong, do not approach no brain just a huge gob.)
(vacancy)
Publius
The Tin Man
Truly English
The Maltese Tranny
Janis the tranny
AM2
Ciderman (brain dead garbage.)
Side show bob
Phil1
The Answer
Nikostratos. (Frontal lobotomy.)
Media1 (Village Idiot.)
Gordon The Chairman.
Dennis from Northern Isles.
Frank MD
Elizabeth the Ist.
Rufus T. Firefly
fairfax
sm753
British Pride
Boudica
Langtonian,
The Master. (Windae licker.)
Grahmski,
L for L,
Galactic
Cannabal
RBNR.

58

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25/07/2008 19:58:08
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59

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25/07/2008 19:59:10
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60

Noxious,

25/07/2008 20:01:12
56

I agree that Labour have run out of credible candidates in Scotland. What makes the SNP victory all the better is that it was that detestable harpy Curran who lost - one of Labour's highest profile MSPs couldn't hold on to one of their safest seats against a relatively unknown opponent - SWEET!
61

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25/07/2008 20:04:42
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62

STATE SECURITY,

25/07/2008 20:06:31
Posted by slap-dash, Border Patrol
I honestly don`t think there is anything I can add to all the congratulations and thanks which has not already been said so, I`m just gonna sit here and gloat ! I know its wrong and it`s rude and I know you can not see me but . . . . . . . trust me . . . . .I`m grinning like a chimp ! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !


Slainte Mhor Y`all !
63

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25/07/2008 20:09:23
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64

Earman,

Dumfries 25/07/2008 20:17:27
I say to Puskas and all his/her, (sorry, I just don't know!), ilk, a heartfelt, "thank you".

The effort, commitment and sheer hard work put in by you (and those like you), allow me (and those like me), to make comment on where this has brought us.

We can either...(a) crow like f**k and be just like THEM, or. (b), be gracious and offer to work with those who may be just a little later in arriving at our conclusions than we were.

Our Nation is diverse and is home to many and differing opinions. What we must do is make common cause with those who have this Nation's interests at heart, (to the exclusion of any other narrow party interest). These are our countrymen and I, for one, have no problem in stating so.

This Nation of ours, and it's very future, demands that we are prepared to do what may have been, to date, thought inconceivable.

So, Unionists, climb aboard! And Nationalists, give them a hand up!

We CAN do this!!
65

Brian M,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 20:20:11
Labour lost one of their supposed 'strongholds', and many more will go unless they really listen and help Brown's Britain by slashing military expenditure and cutting taxes
66

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25/07/2008 20:21:33
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67

puskas,

East kilbride 25/07/2008 20:32:34
No72 Earman,

The collective involvement of a fine bunch of patriots would have gladdened the eye. Everyone a gentleman or lady who gave everything to the cause..
I should have mentioned the ladies who fed and watered all of us over these weeks.
Lovely grub and it worked wonders for the volunteers from throughout our nation. Aye with a few English SNP members giving their all as well.

Well done tae the lassies they worked very hard indeed .. xxxxxx.
Their stovies and curry re-energised us along with pieces of Nicola's birthday cake. Wi hid tae get ti the pakora quick before oor leader LOL ..
68

Breezy,

Argyll 25/07/2008 20:37:32
Well done indeed John Mason, your work in the East end of Glasgow as an excellent and extremely hard working councillor laid the groundwork for a wonderful victory last night.
And well done to the SNP for having the guts to put in a local guy for the seat, some of the abuse John Mason took on these boards over the last week was laughable to anyone who knows him. Bully Wee John.
69

puskas,

East kilbride 25/07/2008 20:42:13
This battle was not only for our party this was for the people of the East End.. Certain parts of the constituancy needs help from government the slow progress since the war is a disgrace and Labour should be thoroughly ashamed.
John Mason whom I met for the first time is a do-or not a film star. He shall be busy making his mark for the people to the best of his ability. The voters have picked a very honest and reliable MP . unlike waht has gone before.

PS I was that knackered I awakened late this afternoon.. I'm sure many of the older folk would have been no different.. Cheers all what a day never to be forgotten, but it has to be remembered the battle goes on. Er-energising is essential to win the battles until Independence is with our people...

70

Earman,

Dumfries 25/07/2008 20:44:03
Puskas #75.

Well done - your Nation owes you.

Be as proud as you should be.
71

An Beal Bacht,

25/07/2008 20:45:02
64 - puskas - Slainte
72

daveinedi,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 20:45:02
Good times!!

Stop the ridiculous policy making of the Labour party. We can take responsibility for our own lives if you give us half a chance.

Oh, and by the way, could somebody please show Gordon Brown the last episode of House of Cards; it's for his own good.
73

puskas,

East kilbride 25/07/2008 21:05:48
No 78, 79 and all others who post on these topics please keep it up. The unionist posters are weakened by lack of genuine debating skills and have been easily put to shame by their nedish type submissions.

The internet is wonderful for getting true facts out to the nation. Until everyone has PC's and basic abilities it is imperative to orally take the info out to the wider population.




74

Earman,

Dumfries 25/07/2008 21:17:33
Puskas #81.

"Assertion is only a chore when it comes not from the heart".

I don't think the unionists suffer from a basic lack of debating skills. It is easy to debate when your cause is just/right/inevitable/undeniable...therein lies the difference.
75

Edinburgh Noddy,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 21:22:07
I'm a Unionist and always will be.

Congratulations to John Mason, a decent man. Local to the area, not ashamed of his religious beliefs, and pro-life. Well done, and all the best. I am not surprised he's motivated by independence for Scotland, and don't understand that criticism - he is SNP which is what that party stands for.

What does the Union stand for? Well, to me it's not about what makes me wealthier. It's about going back 2 generations and having ancestors from Scotland, England and Wales. It's about standing in Liverpool or Edinburgh and knowing this is my country. It's about the pride in the Union flag and what it stands for. It's about knowing the Britain is great, and that the state of the nation is more than the current state of the British government. Without the Union I really think that these Isles would have been impoverished.
76

Media 1,

cape town 25/07/2008 21:25:04
Scotland will always be part of the union!
77

puskas,

East kilbride 25/07/2008 21:26:36
No82, Earman,


Hi .. I agree with you my friend.

I was just trying to point out that when they are losing debates their posts become more histerical, and that tends to lower the standard of posts in each topic.
We as Nationalist should ignore the ridiculous prompts..

Your last paragraph is accurate.. Best wishes.
78

Nevsky,

Moscow 25/07/2008 21:32:05
84:

Care to explain you deep political thoughts on the idea?
79

Media 1,

cape town 25/07/2008 21:33:52
#84 Nevsky

Explain what? Scotland will always be part of the United Kingdom, its just the way it is.
Scotland and the Union is like Edinburgh and the castle.
80

Media 1,

cape town 25/07/2008 21:35:33
Methallions

Someone else said that in 1707, again in 1797, 1890, 1930, 1970, 1975 etc etc etc

Scotland = Union
and that is just the way it is
81

Pink Sombrero,

25/07/2008 21:38:21
83. Hi AM2
82

Earman,

Dumfries 25/07/2008 21:39:15
#85 Thank you.

#84 Scotland has not always been part of any union, and Scotland will not remain part of this particular union....nor will England or Wales. That in itself is not inherently a bad thing.

Even the most irrational of observers realise that what is happening to the political landscape of Scotland is changing all perceptions of what went before, Media 1. If you consider Scotland "home", even from afar, why not come with us and discover what has been denied us thus far?
83

Nevsky,

Moscow 25/07/2008 21:42:25
history is not now i am afraid...you could also replace your dates with some more up to date ones like today for instance or SNP power in Holyrood..
84

Media 1,

cape town 25/07/2008 21:44:06
Earman #91

Nothing thus far has been denied. Scotland and the people of Scotland have always wanted union membership and that is the way it is...
The political landscape isnt changing, the freedom fighters have won a few more seats than they ever did in the past, but that means nothing in relation to "independence"
85

Nevsky,

Moscow 25/07/2008 21:51:45
93:

I think you should talk to the canvassers on the streets in Glasgow. They seem to have a different view.
86

indune1,

Canada 25/07/2008 21:52:29

There is no safe Labour seat.

Bliar and the Broonster have made such hash of it and Labour deserves to be in the political wilderness for decades.

How much worse can the Broonster make it before he pulls the plug or the trigger?
87

Earman,

Dumfries 25/07/2008 21:52:46
Now behave, Media 1! I can't believe that you wish to start trading nonsensical one-liners such as your comments that "Scotland and the Union is like Edinburgh and the castle" and "Scotland = Union".

That makes as much sense as me stating that "Scotland with the Union is like my gonads with the pox". Talk sense, man! You are in imminent danger of becoming an episode of "Blackadder Rogers For The Union".

I would much rather you explained, rationally, why you believe that the Scottish Nation is unable to govern itself.
88

Edinburgh Noddy,

25/07/2008 22:07:46
Earman,

as I Unionist I don't "believe that the Scottish Nation is unable to govern itself." I don't think that is the Unionist case - it shouldn't be. Scotland could govern itself, but I think Scotland is better placed as part of the Union, and that the Union is better with Scotland as part of it.

I think Scotland and the rest of the Union have so much in common, and so much common interest that it would be a mistake to give up a Union that still works after 300 years.
89

Richardinho,

25/07/2008 22:09:25
The political 'earthquake' seems to be being spoken of only in terms of what it means for Brown's premiership, but the real issue as far as Scotland is concerned is that Glasgow voters can no longer be depended on to automatically vote Labour.
Brown use to regard Scotland as 'his personal fiefdom' we are told, but he forgot that the people are not his servants, he is theirs.
I predict that from now on Labour will find that they will have to win elections on merit; that is on their current record and what they can offer now, not what they may have done in the past, decades ago.
90

Richardinho,

25/07/2008 22:11:38
'it would be a mistake to give up a Union that still works after 300 years'

Well there's a point-In what sense can you say that the union 'works' for Glasgow East where life expectancy is less than in some third world countries?
91

Pink Sombrero,

25/07/2008 22:14:54
'it would be a mistake to give up a Union that still works after 300 years'

well there's another point - why has Scotland's growth over the last 30 years been half that of other small European countries, a quarter that of Ireland's and behind the UK's?
92

jackitin,

dundee 25/07/2008 22:21:58
While on his morning walk, Prime Minister Gordon Brown falls over, has a heart attack and dies because the accident and emergency dept at his nearest hospital is too understaffed to treat him in time.

So his soul arrives in Heaven and he is met by Saint Peter at the Pearly Gates.

'Welcome to Heaven,' says Saint Peter, 'Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem.
We seldom see a Socialist around these parts, so we're not sure what to do with you.'

'No problem, just let me in; I'm a good Christian; I'm a believer,' says the PM.

'I'd like to just let you in, but I have orders from God Himself.
He says that since the implementation of his new HEAVEN CHOICES policy,
you have to spend one day in Hell and one day in Heaven.
Then you must choose where you'll live for eternity.'

'But I've already made up my mind. I want to be in Heaven,' replies Brown.

'I'm sorry .. But we have our rules,' Peter interjects.
And, with that, St. Peter escorts him to an elevator and he goes down, down, down ...all the way to Hell.

The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a lush golf course.
The sun is shining in a cloudless sky.
The temperature is a perfect 22C degrees. In the distance is a beautiful club-house.
Standing in front of it is Harold Wilson and thousands of other Socialist luminaries who had helped him out over the years --- John Smith, Michael Foot, Jim Callaghan, etc.
The whole of the Labour Party leaders were there ..
Everyone laughing, happy, and casually but expensively dressed.

They run to greet him, to hug him and to reminisce about the good times they had getting rich at the expense of 'suckers and peasants.'

They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster and caviar.
The Devil himself comes up to Brown with a frosty drink, 'Have a tequila and relax, Gord!'

'Uh, I can't drink anymore, I took a pledge,' says Brown, dejectedly.

'This is Hell, son. You can drink and eat all you want and not worry
93

Nikostratos,

25/07/2008 22:23:42
#100 pink what?

that's because the nationalist have been purposefully working(fifth column like) to bring down scotland's economic growth in order to precipitate a break with the rest of the U.K.
94

Nikostratos,

25/07/2008 22:26:20
Comment Removed By AdministratorReason

who is the knob doing all this and what have they been posting?.........
95

Earman,

Dumfries 25/07/2008 22:27:11
#97 Edinburgh Noddy. I agree that "Scotland being unable to govern itself shouldn't be the unionist case". Unfortunately that is exactly what it is perceived as being.

That we have common interests and indeed are geographically joined is not in dispute....at least, not be me.

I would, however, take issue with your assertation that the union "still works after 300 years". If that were the case, how is the popularity and success currently being enjoyed by the SNP explained?

Now, spare me, as I'm sure you will, the "protest vote" stuff. I sense you as being a little more pragmatic and honest than that, Edinburgh Noddy.

I'm afraid that, in the glare of any rational and reasoned scrutiny, the union, as Richardinho states, simply does not "work".
96

Richardinho,

25/07/2008 22:29:26
'that's because the nationalist have been purposefully working(fifth column like) to bring down scotland's economic growth in order to precipitate a break with the rest of the U.K.'

Well if you really believe that, you truly are a 'knob'.
97

Pink Sombrero,

25/07/2008 22:31:46
105. I think he meant the Brittish nationalists
98

Edinburgh Noddy,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 22:39:35
Richardino, Earman and Pink Sombrero,

you make good points. Why is the East End of Glasgow deprived and why has Scotland recently underperformed Ireland economically? I won't check your figures, but will assume they're right. And why is the SNP enjoying such success?

I don't know much about the East End of Glasgow, but let's look at Scotland's economy. Although recently buffeted by the global economy, Edinburgh has become a massive financial centre - proably second in the UK only to London. Do you think that would have happened if Scotland had been independent? When RBS bought Nat West, and formed a platform for growth, how likely would that have been if RBS had been foreign owned, or operated as a Scottish bank? Banking and insurance has thrived in Edinburgh, and many financial workers come from elsewhere in the UK, and many go from Scotland to London, enjoying a common currency, similar laws, common businesses, common government, common institutions and a familiarity and connection that you just don't get between other countries. I think the question is not so much why Scotland has underperformed the UK, but why prosperity in Scotland has been so centred on Edinburgh. A lot of the business for Scottish based banks and insurance companies is in the UK, but outside Scotland. I don't think that would have been the case if Scotland had been a foreign country.

And as an aside, I don't understand why Britain's Reserve Bank is called the 'Bank of England' and not the 'Bank of Britain', when it sets policies that apply throughout the UK. That I don't understand.

Earman, I will spare you the 'protest vote' explanation - but it's not so long ago - the last General Election, and the last but one Scottish Election, that Labour won more votes than any other party. Party fortunes rise and fall, I think it's too early to call a trend based on recent elections. If you want my personal opinion, I think the SNP's current success is down to a combination of disillusion w
99

Edinburgh Noddy,

Edinburgh 25/07/2008 22:42:51
(Earman my last post got truncated, so here's the last para again)

Earman, I will spare you the 'protest vote' explanation - but it's not so long ago - the last General Election, and the last but one Scottish Election, that Labour won more votes than any other party. Party fortunes rise and fall, I think it's too early to call a trend based on recent elections. If you want my personal opinion, I think the SNP's current success is down to a combination of disillusion with, and disorganisation within Labour, and the sparkling performance of Alex Salmond who seems to have revitalised the SNP (and got a new lease of life himself) on resuming leadership of the SNP. What puzzles me is what the naturally 'conservative' Scottish voters are doing - the ones who may or may not want independence, but who don't support socialism. What do you think? Do they vote on a constitutional basis, or have they really shrunk to the present size of the Tory vote?

100

An Beal Bacht,

25/07/2008 22:45:37
I am bored with the union and with unionists.

A message for unionist posters:

Talk to the hand 'cause the head ain't listening to any more of your mince.
101

Richardinho,

25/07/2008 22:46:31
Since Edinburgh is such a financial centre, that only makes it even more concerning that the rest of the Scottish economy has underperformed. But I'm not in the business of running Scotland down.I am delighted at Scottish successes. I happen to think we could do even better if we were independent.
102

Earman,

Dumfries 25/07/2008 22:50:09
#102. At the risk of being repetitive....gonads.

The reason the SNP, (and disdain for "the union"), are currently very popular is as plain as the nose on your face. They are the only political party in Scotland who can form policy, take initiatives and put forward for discussion and consultation fresh ideas with no concern whatsoever for what anyone else thinks, other than the Scottish people.

That, for the unionist parties, is an insurmountable obstacle, and will remain so until they place Scottish well-being and interests at the heart of their thinking.

I am not holding my breath.
103

Richardinho,

25/07/2008 22:50:19
'What puzzles me is what the naturally 'conservative' Scottish voters are doing - the ones who may or may not want independence, but who don't support socialism. What do you think?'

I would probably vote Conservative if they were a Scottish party. I find the whole '.. and Unionist' bit deeply troubling. It seems to go against what conservatives should stand for; self-reliance, self-improvement and patriotism. Annabelle Goldie talks a good game, but on close examination she is just another little Englander who thinks Scotland should be controlled from down south. I don't find that a particularly inspiring message.
104

Earman,

Dumfries 25/07/2008 23:08:13
#108. Edinburgh Noddy, I do not wish to appear dismissive, but I find that it is much more informative to take a step back from the trees in order to see the wood.

It has, in my opinion, long been one of the main problems in debate of this nature to start examining the tiniest of details and end up looking up your own orifice, (and I am being jocular and not offensive).

My own position is simplicity itself. Scotland is a Nation and should be independent...free to enjoy it's own successes and endure it's own tribulations - such is the natural scheme of things. We have the talent, skills and intellect to do just that, and it hampers us to be an unwilling "attachment" of some larger Nation.

(Now, let me say right now, and before the "Aye, but whit aboot the EU?" brigade come riding out to battle, that we should have a voice of our own at that particular table, if, indeed, the will of the Scottish people is to remain seated at it in the first place. That is for them to decide).

Only the most irrational and blinkered "naysayer" would, at this juncture, deny that all the signs are that independence is inevitable, sooner or later. If we have this Nation's best interests at heart, then we are obliged to join forces and go forward for all our sakes, are we not?
105

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 25/07/2008 23:10:15
Well this must be the fairest article I am have at the Scotsman in quiet a while.

83 Edinburgh Noddy.

If only your pals in the Unionist parties had Big Ears then maybe they would start to listen to the Scottish people for a change.....AM2
106

STATE SECURITY,

25/07/2008 23:10:23
I would like to comment on BBC Scotland Newsnight and Glenn Campbell. He is in my opinion one of the most tiresome and unprofessional journalists I can think of next to Kirsty Wark.

Firstly at the SNP conference he sneered at Alex Salmond regarding some remarks made by bloggers, or he said they were.

"They say that you are smug and need the smile wiped of your face, they also say why don't you just go away."

He then did a similar sneer fest on John Mason on his so called candidates head to head. "You have been compared to a draft excluder or as a toilet roll holder."

Did any other politician come under this kind of disgraceful disrespectful sneering from the whining Campell, no way, especially not Curran who was allowed to rattle on at length and dominate all the debates with her machine gun like spluttering, holding her hand up to signal silence to anyone who would try and interrupt her.

BBC Scotland are a joke. They obviously fear the SNP and what would happen to there empire once Scotland declares UDI. Hence the vitriolic attacks and the biased nasal whining of the thick numpty Campbell.
107

Earman,

Dumfries 25/07/2008 23:16:31
#115 State Security. Worry not. All the huffing and puffing of the big Bland Wolf will do little to weaken OUR house, methinks!
108

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 25/07/2008 23:18:08
107 & 108 Edinburgh Noddy

Your point about Edinburgh being successful if only part of the UK is flawed. Market globalisation and the EU mean that you no longer need to be home-grown to be truly successful. Edinburgh may be even more successful if Scotland were to become independent. Current devolved reserved matters like defence and the economy would be relocated to Edinburgh, bring more civil servants and more sub-contractors.

Going back to your original point, look at EDF. It has the confidence to be the first utility company to really raise energy prices, will soon own part of British Nuclear, and is almost wholly owned by the French Government. A great example of a successful foreign business in the UK. And there are many more - BAA, Scottish Power, Setanta, Ryanair, etc...

And prosperity in Scotland is not wholly centred on Edinburgh. Glasgow has seen a huge increase in affluence after many years of regeneration, and Aberdeen / Aberdeenshire has overtaken Edinburgh for having the highest average house prices in Scotland.

Lastly, you say party fortunes rise and fall. I wouldn't disagree with that. Remember, however, in the 1950s, Scotland voted Conservative! Not Labour. Conservative. The only reason the Tory Party's fortunes have not risen again was because of Thatcher. Blair and Brown may be having the same effect on Scottish Labour as Thatcher had on Conservative fortunes in Scotland. This vote was not merely a protest vote. Last year's Holyrood win for the SNP was called a protest vote. You don't get protest votes year after year for the same party. There is indeed a permanent shift of opinion toward the SNP, and this looks like continuing.
109

karinxxx,

25/07/2008 23:19:58
right in case any unionistas have just come out of hiding here is something for you


WE WON
WE WON
WE WON
WE WON
WE WON

YOU LOST
YOU LOST
YOU LOST
YOU LOST
YOU LOST
YOU LOST

FOR BEST EFFECT IMAGINE LOADS OF SNP SUPPORTERS DANCING ROUND YOU IN A LITTLE CIRCLE WHILE SINGING ABOVE.

right now that i have that out of my system anyone want to give everyone a laugh by posting that poll that had labour winning glasgow east which all nationalists said was wrong and all unionsts were clinging to saying

the poll
the poll said.
110

STATE SECURITY,

25/07/2008 23:20:05
What is not being reported is the fact that during canvassing the SNP are also asking polling questions on independence and have a very accurate picture of what the electorate think of independence.

During the East End campaign it was found that as much as 80% of people asked if they favour independence said yes. And especially surprise surprise in Ballieston which is Currans actual MSP constituency.

Surprisingly there are a number of non SNP voters who would like independence.

So when the Labour party sprung on an unsuspecting Scotland that John Mason was a "hardline" independence supporter, the SNP could barely believe their luck. Surprise surprise SNP candidate supports independence.

The head in the sand denial and anti-independence propaganda emanating from the London puppets of the Scottish media camp has been a formidable secret weapon for the SNP.

So thank you all very much, goodnight.
111

STATE SECURITY,

25/07/2008 23:24:05
Having thought about it Glenn Campbell is Kirsty Wark in drag or something like that, it's late I'm squiffy, happy, goodnight.

#116. You are right.
112

Richardinho,

25/07/2008 23:27:51
I remember a few years ago (maybe ten) it was said by the pundits that the labour party, worried about the continuing success of the SNP, were going to give up attacking them over the independence issue, the reason being that it just did the SNP's work for them by propagating their flagship policy.
It seems since then they've had to change tack once again, thus we hear them all harping on about 'hardline nationalists', as if this is going to either surprise or scare anyone.
113

Edinburgh Noddy,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 10:59:54
Earman,

"We have the talent, skills and intellect to do just that, and it hampers us to be an unwilling "attachment" of some larger Nation."

I do not want a Union which is an unwilling attachment, and would not fight to preserve such a union, but I think the, still minority, attachment to that view owes some of it's increase to the neglect of the Union by British governments including the present one. I see a Union where the talen, skills and intellect you rightly describe enjoy a bigger stage and a larger market for their employment and advancement, and with a completely open border on what is Scotland's only land border.

Andrew,

some good examples of succesful foreign firms in the UK. I never say that an independent Scotland would find it's firms locked out of England, or vice versa. But, I don't think you can compare the access foreign firms have compared with domestic. Geography, culture and history suggest to me that any big Scottish firm is likely to look to England as it's next market. You say that EDF is prospering and it is almost wholly owned by the French Government. I would say that backs up my case, as a company enjoying the support of a major European power like France, or Britain, has more strength to exploit opportunities. Look at BP in Russia - facing huge obstacles and difficulties, but which is better for that company, to be a British company with the support of Britain, or an English (or Scottish) company?

Britain's car industry has long been mostly owned by Americans, Europeans and Japanese, foreign firms are not shut out, but it is an advantage to Scots firms in Britain if they are domestic.

"Edinburgh may be even more successful if Scotland were to become independent. Current devolved reserved matters like defence and the economy would be relocated to Edinburgh, bring more civil servants and more sub-contractors."

Protect us from an economy which looks to government workers as a stimulus to wealth creation. It's almost an
114

Edinburgh Noddy,

Edinburgh 26/07/2008 11:00:18
(cont.)
Protect us from an economy which looks to government workers as a stimulus to wealth creation. It's almost an aside, but do Nationalists see an independent Scotland buying jets from British Aerospace, running a fleet, buying tanks etc. etc. with all the overheads of that? And that would make Scots wealthier? Although I don't think Britain needs any new carriers, would the recent carrier order placed in Scotland been awarded to an independent Scotland? Unlikely I think.

I agree that prosperity is not wholly centred on Edinburgh, but while Glasgow may have become more affluent recently, it still seems to me that much as I find it a friendly, vibrant city, whenever I visit it doesn't have the same air of wealth and prosperity that Edinburgh has.

It's hard to believe that as recently as the '50s Scotland voted Conservative. I think you are right that under Mrs Thatcher the Tories lost significant support in Scotland, which has not recovered. Of course now, without Scottish MPs it's unlikely Labour could ever form a British government, or that the Tories would not be the natural party of government for England.
115

Iainbroch,

Moray 26/07/2008 20:11:27
re 124

As someone who knows a little about the situation of BP in Russia - you lie! Being tied to the Brit State is damaging them and thier interests there. They are bit by bit being forced out of Russia and you know it or are you hoping that all the posters here are ignorant of exactly what is happenning in Russia in relation to BP.
Nor did BPs suppossed Britness help them with Federal authoroties in USA - 3 huge fines in less than a year!One in relation to a refinery explosion another fine in relation to Alaska oil spills and another in relation to security and exchange commission finding them guilty of illegal proce fixing!
Ah yes the Brit company at its best - immoral,crooked, inept and worse!
It is the way of Unionist Cyber Pimps to rely on ignorance of others to spread falsehoods and spurious arguments.
You have been Rumbled - Grow up and look for more honest for defending the Union if inded you can find any?
116

scotnotbrit,

camelon 07/08/2009 01:03:18
if there is no electoral fraud a la GLENROTHES ,we should win another seat

however fully accept that the senile will suddenly become lucid , the recently dead will rise from their lairs , in countless unionised care homes party hacks will guide the hands of the elderly confused in an attempt to nobble the vote , lets face it , for the corruption party the victory however dirty , is ALL that counts , labourites and their trade unionist lackeys will stoop to any depths to cling to their tamany hall style privileges

 

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