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Fears surgeries to stay shut in GP hours row



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Published Date: 07 March 2008
FAMILY doctors were on a collision course with the Scottish Government last night over plans to extend GP hours, with fears that many will keep their doors shut.
Last year, the SNP promised it would work with GPs to provide appointments outside normal hours to help working people see their doctor.

But yesterday, Scottish GP leaders said there was real anger among doctors about the way in which politicians
were trying to impose extended hours.

The British Medical Association (BMA) in Scotland said its poll of GPs found the majority had chosen the first deal presented to them by the Scottish Government, which would give them extra funding in return for working longer hours. However, 97 per cent of GPs said they had only selected this option as it was the "less worse" of the two proposals put to them.

As the arrangement is voluntary, it could mean hundreds of GPs would shun working longer hours – which could amount to an extra week's work a year – and opt to take a cut in funding, amounting to thousands of pounds. If enough GPs took this stance, it could make a mockery of the SNP's pledge to make GP access more flexible.

The BMA surveyed more than 27,000 GPs across the UK, including almost 3,000 in Scotland, about the options put to them.

In Scotland the first offer – option A – would see GPs working an extra 30 minutes a week for every 1,000 registered patients. In return, the Scottish Government promised £9.5 million in extra funding, plus £6.5 million diverted from money already awarded to GPs. The alternative, option B, would be up for discussion, but would mean no extra funds and more money diverted from current funding.

The BMA found 93 per cent of GPs selected option A, while just 5 per cent went for option B.

Dr Dean Marshall, chairman of the BMA's Scottish GPs committee, said doctors were never opposed to working extended hours, but were angry at the way the negotiations were handled.

He accused the Scottish Government of "tinkering" with a UK-wide offer being led by Westminster, rather than having the confidence to work with GPs to develop a Scottish solution, which would have seen extended hours being provided in areas of real demand, but not imposed across the board.

Dr Marshall said of the current situation: "Patients will lose out as they will not get the improved access they expect and the Scottish Government loses out because it cannot deliver its promises and has lost the support of a key part of the health service."

He added that there were concerns about the support staff needed for extended hours and stressed it was for individual GP practices to decide if they wanted to provide extended hours.

Ross Finnie, the Lib Dems' health spokesman, said the poll was "a damning indictment of the Scottish Government's handling of our local GPs".

And Dr Richard Simpson, Labour's public health spokesman, said: "It is regrettable BMA members were forced to choose the 'less-worse' option."

Nicola Sturgeon, the health secretary, welcomed GPs' vote for flexible working hours.

SENSE MUST PREVAIL
I CAN see why patients would want flexible access to their GP, writes John Garner.

I leave home at 7:15am each morning and get back at 7pm at night. As a patient, I would have to take a half-day's leave to get an appointment. I would therefore welcome an early-morning or evening appointment with my doctor.

However, under the proposed model, these appointments would not be reserved for patients who could not be seen during normal hours. We could end up just seeing patients who could easily have come in the day.

In my practice, we have not yet got enough detail to decide whether we will provide extended hours. Currently, none of our support staff wants to work in the evening or on Saturday mornings.

There needs to be some common sense built into the proposals so these extra appointments are protected for patients with difficulties seeing a GP, otherwise they will not have the desired effect.

• Dr John Garner is a GP in Edinburgh





The full article contains 705 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 06 March 2008 10:40 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: General practitioners
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 00:15:58
"Currently, none of our support staff wants to work in the evening or on Saturday mornings"
Dr John Garner, were the "support staff" not offered any incentives for the few extra hours, they would be offered to work,?
Or are they all to old and comfortable with what they have, to be bothered,?
Or is it the 'Hassle' Factor,?

Just a Question!....'Why',?

I am not criticising,...just curious!
2

Proximaking,

Dundee 07/03/2008 07:33:52
Why is it that every Doctor you interview ike this one and every Doctor who writes into the papers I read is a paragon of virtue who would die rather than see a patient stub their little toe, ...... and yet I can't get a GP appointment for over a week, my cousin had to wait two weeks for a brain scan "because we don't work before 9pm or after 4pm or on weekends", my son had to sit in agony with a broken arm while doctors sat nearby laughing and joking and having coffee and only intervened three times to give him morphine injections when I demanded they do something? Why is that? Why do the public only meet the doctors who are only interested in money and chasing the nurses? Just a question, a question that 99% of the British public would like answered, ..... reminds me a a little a story about a little boy an emperor and some "very fine clothes". We once respected doctors but we know them now so let's pay them what they are really worth, ...... what would you pay a google look-up expert? £666/day? Because that's what most of them are on.
3

Proximaking,

Dundee 07/03/2008 07:35:49
Before 9am I meant.
4

fife runner,

07/03/2008 07:53:43
my wife suffered the same fate. went to surgery at opening to ask for advice re our son. A GP was sitting at the back of the office doing nothing and when asked if she could speak with him was told no one was available.
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 07/03/2008 08:25:42
fife runner @#4,
That's Typical!
6

,

07/03/2008 08:46:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Mirage,

Dundee 07/03/2008 14:48:53
When are people going to realise that GP extended opening times will not work!

I am not a GP, but do work for the health service, and it has become aparent that the majority of people believe that extended opening hours are a good thing. Do you not realise that, yes you will see a doctor with regards to a medical complaint, but should you need bloods taken, or x-rays done, or medical prescriptions during these extended hours they just wont be done. There are no blood samples collected at the weekends or evening's from GP practices. X-Ray departments shut at 17:00 except for emergencies. Local pharmacist's close at 17:00 too.

As for tax payer's money....a GP practice is a private business. It is run as a business, it makes money as a business and any tax money put into that business is for the benefit of the patients.

Oh, and as for 'A Better Way', of-course GP's are educated to University level. Would you prefer a non-educated person to diagnose you??? Yet again, in this country, it is the people who have worked hard at their education, gone on to University, provided for the state that are targeted by the government. How about picking on the NED's of this country for once!
8

james the last,

edinburgh 07/03/2008 15:07:03
I would draw many of the previous commentators to the following excerpts from the Telegraph. Maybe your ire would be better spent elsewhere!
'Life as a City broker, Ms Thompson describes, was fast-paced and drink-fuelled, with many workers barely sleeping after going out with clients and returning to work.
"The reality is that half the City is functioning on very little sleep at least two days a week and more often than not still drunk from the night before," she writes.
"I can still, however, reminisce - for example, about that six-hour lunch when I heard a colleague say to the sommelier: 'Just keep each bottle under £600', only to be asked by his client of he would mind if he ordered a particular Brunello that came in just short of £800," Ms Thompson said.
"We ended up drinking three bottles of vintage pink champagne, three of red, two of white, and numerous glasses of dessert wine and cognac (at around £50 a glass)."'
With the level of sheer ignorant malice shown by the 'Great' British public, it would not be surprising if GPs voted with their feet. Indeed many are probably considering joining the 1.1 million graduate professionals who have left the UK in the last few years. Alternatively many may see the way Dentisits have left the NHS in droves as a future possibility. My advice to GPs; make the ingrates pay for every privilidge they demand and then they may start to value what you do.

9

james the last,

edinburgh 07/03/2008 15:09:28
I would draw many of the previous commentators to the following excerpts from the Telegraph. Maybe your ire would be better spent elsewhere!
'Life as a City broker, Ms Thompson describes, was fast-paced and drink-fuelled, with many workers barely sleeping after going out with clients and returning to work.
"The reality is that half the City is functioning on very little sleep at least two days a week and more often than not still drunk from the night before," she writes.
"I can still, however, reminisce - for example, about that six-hour lunch when I heard a colleague say to the sommelier: 'Just keep each bottle under £600', only to be asked by his client of he would mind if he ordered a particular Brunello that came in just short of £800," Ms Thompson said.
"We ended up drinking three bottles of vintage pink champagne, three of red, two of white, and numerous glasses of dessert wine and cognac (at around £50 a glass)."'
With the level of sheer ignorant malice shown by the 'Great' British public, it would not be surprising if GPs voted with their feet. Indeed many are probably considering joining the 1.1 million graduate professionals who have left the UK in the last few years. Alternatively many may see the way Dentisits have left the NHS in droves as a future possibility. My advice to GPs; make the ingrates pay for every privilidge they demand and then they may start to value what you do.

10

Gdgy,

dndy 07/03/2008 21:25:13
No one is asking these very well off docs to work more hours - just to work more useful ones NAD they are being offered more money to do so!!!!!
-but the docs wouldn't want to do anything that is good for their patients.....

AND mirage

"I am not a GP, but do work for the health service, and it has become aparent that the majority of people believe that extended opening hours are a good thing. Do you not realise that, yes you will see a doctor with regards to a medical complaint, but should you need bloods taken, or x-rays done, or medical prescriptions during these extended hours they just wont be done. There are no blood samples collected at the weekends or evening's from GP practices. X-Ray departments shut at 17:00 except for emergencies. Local pharmacist's close at 17:00 too"

EHHH! If you work for the NHS you'll know that most GOP appointments do not lead to blood samples being taken or samples taken for analysis -so that reason for not changing is shot to hell!
AND the idea that GP shouldn't have evening appts because the pharmacists are shut is typical NHS institutionalised thinking - do patients have to have their meds immediately? Why not open a pharmicists a bit later?
Many people would value evening appts so they can have the preventative check-ups that are part of government policy and recognised as a very good idea..anything that helps us prevent disease is a great idea - the NHS and the docs have to learn that they must provide a service....
11

Dr Finlay,

Tannochbrae 08/03/2008 10:08:11
The last few days have seen a huge number of polarised comments on this issue most of which have been pretty uninformed.

The main point is this: this whole issue is a political con of the first order!

1. The "deal" will provide 3 x 10min appointments each week for every thousand patients - WOW!
2. Only the doctor need be there - no receptionist, no phones answered, no access to the surgery apart from the three patients with the appointment, no other facilities open = second rate consultation however you look at it.
3. The only people who will benefit are a tiny number of commuter/mobile middle class. That group already access the health service very effectively.
4. The resources will move away from the elderly, sick, and poor who traditionally do not access the NHS so effectively (The Inverse Care Rule)
5. The whole thing came from a statement from Gordon Brown in an attempt to win middle class votes in the SE of England

If you are taken in by this ridiculous trickery then more fool you!
12

stewart GP,

Glasgow 08/03/2008 10:11:06
Hello, I have no problem working an evening shift. But do you want me to work a morning and afternoon shift as well? Like Dr Garner, I'm in the surgery at 7.15am catching up on paperwork and I dont leave until nearly 7pm. I'm not moaning, I love my patients and my job but I wouldnt like any relative of mine to be seen at 9pm by a doctor who had been working for 14-15 hours.
With regard to the peson who seriously thinks that I earn £666 per day, maybe he should resit his arithmetic O level (if they still have them!) I'm paid about £75,000 per year which works out at about £25 per hour-i'm not complaining but it cost me £140 to have my burglar alarm fixed last week and it took 7 minutes. The cost of General Practice per patient is 20p per day. If you really think that all doctors are in it for the money then God help us all.
13

stewart GP,

Glasgow 08/03/2008 10:14:52
And Dr Finlay,

it's actually 2 x 15 minute appointments per week for every 1000 patients.
the issue of security has been completely ignored. A GP in Glasgow was stabbed in the afternoon in a crowded surgery last year. What would have happened if she had been on her own at 9pm in an otherwose empty surgery with only the assailant and one receptionist?
14

Dr Finlay,

Tannochbrae 08/03/2008 10:20:20
stewart GP

Thanks for the correction - that makes it even more ridiculous!

Do you think that any MSP will care tuppence if a doctor is assaulted one evening - so long as they get the votes they will sleep soundly!

15

AlastairEwen,

North America 18/04/2008 01:50:21
What a bunch of ill-informed snivelling tosspots! Don't you have anything better to do than vent your spleen at GP's? You are being taken for a ride by Gordon Brown and his Nulab cronies. Be very careful what you wish for - Darzi polyclinics staffed by noctors dishing out protocol-driven crap medicine and answering to their shareholders. It's all coming to a Tesco's near you and good luck to you all when it happens!

COI: I am an obscenely rich physician who left the UK years ago - something that more and more UK docs should do!

 

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