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Published Date: 10 June 2009
ANTI-FASCIST groups have pledged to step up their attacks on the British National Party after leader Nick Griffin, newly elected to the European Parliament, was pelted with eggs and forced to abandon a press conference.
Shouting "Off our streets, Nazi scum", demonstrators yesterday chased Mr Griffin and party colleague Andrew Brons away from College Green in front of parliament, down the street to waiting cars.

Flanked by bodyguards, the pair – who on Monday won the party's first ever European seats – were forced to run a gauntlet of signs reading "Stop the Fascist BNP", waved by protesters mobilised by Unite Against Fascism (UAF).

Demonstrators – hastily mobilised by text, e-mail and Twitter – hammered on the tops of the departing cars with their placards and cheered as they saw the politicians off.

Afterwards, Mr Griffin said he was outraged that he had not been able to hold the news conference.

"It's very, very wrong," he said. "It's a very sad day for British democracy. People should be entitled to hear what we have to say and to hear journalists question us robustly."

He described protesters as "a mob of students, lecturers, probably a few civil service parasites ... hardcore activists and supporters primarily of the Labour Party".

Two people were taken to hospital after the demonstration and police said they were investigating allegations of common assault and a road collision.

UAF claimed that Mr Griffin's security guards punched and kicked demonstrators in scuffles as they escorted him away.

Last night a UAF spokesman told The Scotsman:

"We are calling on people to organise protests whenever we hear they are speaking or appearing, to make it clear the BNP is not an acceptable part of society."

Anti-fascist groups have vowed to redouble their efforts after the BNP won more than 940,000 votes in last week's European elections, enough to give the party its first representatives in Brussels under a proportional representation system.

Campaigners are further alarmed that Mr Griffin and Mr Brons could earn their party a "fighting fund" of more than £4 million in salary, expenses and perks.

With the help of trade unions, the UAF established a political arm in Scotland in May, after polls in England suggested the BNP could win several seats in the European elections.

Charlotte Ahmed, the interim secretary, told The Scotsman last night that Mr Griffin can also expect to be besieged by protesters every time he steps foot north of the Border. She said: "If Nick Griffin attempts to bolster his organisation in Scotland, we will be there – but he is hard to follow because he books into venues under pseudonyms.

"What we have got to remember is that during the same week we commemorated the D-Day landings, fascists in Britain got a European seat for the first time."


The full article contains 476 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 10 June 2009 4:05 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Far Right in the UK
 
1

Fred Leeson,

edinburgh 10/06/2009 00:05:53
I've never voted for the BNP myself but over a million British citizens at the elections did so it seems a bit undemocratic to stop them from holding a peaceful press conference. Especially the assault by the UAF who are funded by the taxpayer and supported by David Cameron the Conservative leader.
2

Allan(handofgod137),

10/06/2009 00:09:56
Time the police started investigating this anti democratic group, after all they'd be the first ones crying if they were treated in the same way by BNP supporters.
3

,

10/06/2009 00:16:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

nabodican,

Newton Stewart 10/06/2009 00:23:11
What were the police doing when these UAF thugs assaulted Nick Griffin and attacked his car.
Whether you agree with BNP policies or not, they are democratically elected and have the right to be heard.
Who elected the UAF thugs
5

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 00:23:43
4...Aye...did ye say the way thon Griffin scrambled aff tae 'es car eh?....heh heh heeeee.....the BNP man...whit a yolk...whit a bliddy yolk....
6

Iainbroch,

10/06/2009 00:26:50
Have to admit great headline! Someone with a sense of humour at Hootsman.

Chucking eggs though is misguided! Free publicity for Griffin which ever way you look at it.
7

Anthony,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 00:35:54
The problem is that it's getting difficult to tell who the fascists are here. We have the BNP - who we are told are fascists, but who have a democratic mandate, endorse only peaceful methods, and support a parliamentary democracy, and are staunch supporters of free speach. Sorry but that doesn't sound like facists to me.

We than have the so-called 'anti-facist' UAF, who oppose free speach, believe in their absolute right to break up meetings using violence if they, (but only they, mind), happen to disagree with the views being expressed. Their leader also stated on last night's News Night on BBC2 that it doesn't matter what the electorate say, they, the angry mob, can do as they please.

As someone who loathes facism, if I had to choose between the BNP and UAF, the BNP actually look the less facist!
8

Rjharley,

Inverness 10/06/2009 00:43:05
Whatever view is held....a democratically-elected parliamentarian is pelted with eggs and placards by a rabid-looking gang of people who dwell in England....and not a policeman in sight!!
Maybe the 'Force' have been sent to Loch Ness to check the youngsters in their 'Rockness' tents this weekend, for 'nippy sweeties'...a real threat to our way of life.
9

Iainbroch,

10/06/2009 00:45:00
re12

Ther is every chance that Griffen could get arrested if he enters Belgium? As I have been informed that Holocaust denial is a crime in Belgium - can anyone enligten me on this?
10

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 00:45:01
I think it would be better to let the BNP speak and be questioned and interviewed - This would allow the British public to realise just how vile and racist they actually are, and to realise that their leader is a muslim-hating anti-semite with a criminal record.
11

truthsleuth,

10/06/2009 00:46:31
It is our present political parties who have created the rise in the vote for the extreme right wing. The LIb/Lab/Con have abandoned the indiginous population of this UK.

Each of them are in as much denial of the total opposaition toimmigration just as much as the BNP deny the holocacast. All three squirm and wriggle to avoid mentionong immigration in the terms all indigenous UK resisedents consider it quickly changing the subject when it is raised and even quicker to tell us that immigrants bring enormous benefits though where and how I have yet to discover.
12

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 00:47:24
#15

"Ther is every chance that Griffen could get arrested if he enters Belgium? As I have been informed that Holocaust denial is a crime in Belgium - can anyone enligten me on this?"

You are quite right, holocaust denial is a crime in Belgium - the law was passed in 1995 and anyone convicted faces up to a year in prision.

I doubt that would stop Nick Griffin though, he is already a convicted criminal anyway.
13

RsS,

Edinburgh 10/06/2009 00:50:45
The reaction to the election of BNP MEPs from the other parties has been unbelievable. Is democracy only a wonderful thing when the result suits? Are the hundreds of thousands of people who voted for them not entitled to an opinion?

What a disgrace! I thought id seen it all.

They talk about a "stain on British democracy". If this is allowed to continue i have to ask "what democracy?"

14

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 00:51:15
15...Certainly is in Germany but then I believe Mr Griffin did an about turn on his holocaust denial as politically...it was not in the best interests of his party...

He wrote in his own publication, The Rune: 'I am well aware that orthodox opinion is that 6m Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into soup and lampshades... I have reached the conclusion that the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria.'

Quite right Griffin old bean...why anyone might think you a raging nazi my good man and we wouldnt want that...not the done thing to have the British Nazi Party with egg all over its face now is it sunshine?
15

SkeptikScot,

10/06/2009 00:51:41
Surely this is a propaganda mistake by this group, UAF? The BNP allowed to be seen as victims and free publicity for Griffin et al.

16

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 00:52:24
The idiot organisers of this "demonstration" have achieved, exactly, what the BNP craves most; publicity.

Now that poor soul Griffin is the victim!!!

The BNP credo should be anathema to all right-thinking people, but the incredible stupidity of those demonstrators has obscured that message of hate.

Due to these actions the BNP will be able to point the finger and play the victim.

The only way to beat the BNP is to confront them, in public forums, with the truth.

They are white supremicists, xenophobic, authoritarian.

They prey on the fears of the least fortunate in our society.

It is easy to refute their lies and obfuscation by reference to their membership criteria and blog sites.

Confront their lies and obfuscation. That is their fatal flaw.
17

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 00:55:37
Anthony.

What is your Party's membership criteria?

Are you a member of the BNP?
18

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 00:55:41
#21

"The reaction to the election of BNP MEPs from the other parties has been unbelievable."

The reaction from the other parties is perfectly understandable.

Any right-minded person would feel utter disgust that a racist, whites only party has gained any votes.
19

Fred Leeson,

edinburgh 10/06/2009 00:59:12
#15 Iain
"Ther is every chance that Griffen could get arrested if he enters Belgium? As I have been informed that Holocaust denial is a crime in Belgium - can anyone enligten me on this?"
To be fair I saw him on telly yesterday saying he accepts that millions were murdered in the holocaust. Plus despite reports to the contrary in newspapers he has actually supported the gurkha campaign for UK citizenship and has jews as elected members. So it looks like porkie pies from the media.
20

weeshooie1,

Wollongong 10/06/2009 01:02:08
Whatever happened to free speech in Britain? Mind you, look what happened to Enoch Powell when he had the temerity to warn the British Parliament of the time as to the eventual consequences of their immigration policies.
21

RsS,

Edinburgh 10/06/2009 01:04:11
#28

Define "right-minded"

It's this very arrogance that has caused this.
22

RsS,

10/06/2009 01:05:49
#31

Indeed they do. That is what the ballot box is for.
23

Anthony,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 01:08:27
I've just checked, there doesn't seem to be any formal BNP position on the holocaust. I've found articles where Nick Griffin seems to be saying that we should move on from that episode in history, (which I disagree with), but I can't find any actual evidence that he ever denied the holocaust.

As for his criminal offence, it appears to be a lower level incitement charge on a statutory offence - far less serious than the criminal records of several Labour Party politicians I could mention. Besides, a criminal record surely shouldn't automatically bar anyone - real people make mistakes and learn lessons.
24

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 01:22:53
#33, RsS

Is apartheid "right-minded"?

It is, after all, BNP policy.
25

Anthony,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 01:24:05
27) I'm not a BNP member and so I can't speak on their behalf. I do believe however, that people with a democratic mandate, should be allowed to peacefully and lawfully express their opinion without being physically attacked and chased by an angry rentamob. Especially when the rentamob appear to be funded by their political opponents.
26

Starance,

UK 10/06/2009 01:27:08

The BNP have my vote. And I would like to see those UAF and Searchlight fascists brought to justice. They have got away with murder by attacking members and supporters of the British National Party.

The UAF and Searchlight practice exactly what they accuse the BNP of!

People these days do not really believe in a democracy, nor follow it. Which opens a back door for those in Labour and other groups to abuse!
27

Iainbroch,

10/06/2009 01:38:13
So in answer to my query about whether or not Griffen could be arrested as a Holocaust denial case is somewhat grey - I just dont like the idea of him getting any free publicity especially as there will be a media circus surrounding any arrest!

Remember UKIP got 17% of the vote in England and the reactionary right wing elements in England would just love that! I can see things getting very ugly!

I dont like to see him getting any platform but I will not be an advocate of anyone who wishes to abolish free speech but I dont want him to get any free nasty publicity either that would follow any arrest or any violent demonstration!
28

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 01:38:31
#39, Anthony.

Why do I find it hard to believe this answer.

Your comments at #12 & #36 sound very like those that would be made by an apologist.
29

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 10/06/2009 01:39:12

Did anyone watch BBC2 News-Night?

What about that poor woman in a red coat, that was walking, just doing her business, and had nothing to do with the protest, being 'shoved-over', and knocked onto the road by Nick Griffin's 'Heavy-Squad'!, She could of been killed if her Head bounced or the Road First!
What as disgrace and disrespect for others, others being an Innocent pedestrian!

WHERE WERE THE POLICE!!??

If this Woman, who now is on film, had died, we would have a murder investigation going on!

I hope She Sue's Big Style!


30

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 10/06/2009 01:43:12
Dont ask! mistakes ammend,

Did anyone watch BBC2 News-Night?

What about that poor woman in a red coat, that was walking, just doing her business, and had nothing to do with the protest, being 'shoved-over', and knocked onto the road by Nick Griffin's 'Heavy-Squad'!, She could of been killed if her Head had, bounced off the Road First!
What a disgrace and a disrespect for others, others being an Innocent pedestrian!

WHERE WERE THE POLICE!!??

If this Woman, who now is on film, had died, we would have a murder investigation going on!

I hope She Sue's Big Style!

31

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 01:44:29
#40, Starance.

What is your definition of "democracy"?

Does it include white supremacy?

Does it include the repatriation of legal EU workers?
32

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 10/06/2009 01:55:02

In Edinburgh, at a mere Edinburgh's Conference Centre, we have Visitors who are far-less the controversial, yet our Scottish Police force, are there in Force, for a small event, compared to this one of Nick Griffin!

Again! Why Were The Police Not There?
33

senza nome,

10/06/2009 01:57:53
#30: " the BNP has jews as elected members" Oh really? Name one.What jew would be in a party of holocaust deniers?
34

james 1st,

hamilton nz 10/06/2009 02:28:09
i dont believe that legally elected mps should be attacked by an angry mob just because they dont like the mps views. and i do think that the angry mob are just providing free publicity for the bnp. i dont know anything about the bnp whether they are holocaust deniers or not, but i do think that its well past time that the western world stopped the guilt trip about the holocaust, a relatively small group of germans created it and they i think are all dead. few people if any today carry any guilt for what happened. keep the memorials but dont feel guilty.there have been millions of people killed in places like cambodia and no one seems to care, one does wonder is that because white people have not been the victims remember the holocaust ,but only as part of history where it belongs
35

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 10/06/2009 02:42:57
Charles Linskaill
You are correct, the police should have been there and arrested these UAF thugs who were attacking a democratically elected MEP.
36

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 10/06/2009 03:03:34

nabodican ~49,

Quite Frankly!, One of being 'Bizarre!

One can only assume it was a 'Political-Set-Up', of Political Correctness, the 'Victim', not being,
'egg-on-their-Face', but one of a Woman, going about her daily business.

37

senza nome,

10/06/2009 03:42:18
#48.I can assure you they are holocaust deniers.No doubt about it.Both Griffin and Brons.Google their names to read their sickening racist histories over the past forty odd years.Oh it's time we stopped going on about the holocaust is it? Try telling people in NZ to stop going on about Gallipoli and see what kind of response you get.We must never forget.
38

Ex-pat Alfred WIck,

New Glasgow, Nova Scotia 10/06/2009 03:55:23

I wish Canada had something like the BNP.
39

Pomodora,

Gravesend 10/06/2009 03:56:40
"So this is your symbolism?" asked Adolph Hitler when he stood atop the Arc du Triumph following his conquest of France. His message was intended to belittle and insult the paople of the free world. The Leader of the BNP is very familiar with that gesture and his choice of location was very well scripted to assimilate with the Nazi Dictator's words. I have no doubt that he chose the House of Commons to backdrop his posturing and even to anticipate the furor that it would cause for the greatest tool of the Third Reich was its Ministry of Propoganda. A Nazi is a Nazi is a Nazi.
40

Pomodora,

Gravesend 10/06/2009 03:59:30
...should read, people of the free world. Sorry!
41

celticdaft,

10/06/2009 04:08:43
#52 words fail me. You don't get the irony of an ex pat saying what you just said ?


42

nuada mor,

Hamilton 10/06/2009 04:15:11
Me too 52 !!!!!
43

donald,

glasgow 10/06/2009 04:19:58
The Imperialist British Nationalist Parties are entirely responsible for the conditions leading to the rise of the BNP in Engerland. Note that the English WC voted for them and not the Unionist Great British left.

Engerland footie fans and a certain loyalist footie team in Scotland, whose follow, follow, followers like to wear Engerland and Chelsea footie tops, are just as welcome abroad as the BNP is in Scotland. Both are ripe for BNP support. Not that the other half of the Old Firm's Unionist Labour Board are much worse than creating these conditions of false consciousness.
44

Leon,

10/06/2009 04:39:44
#5

Misguided? Nope they landed spot on!
45

Leon,

10/06/2009 05:15:37
Take a look at the slide show on the Times' web site. This is the way to do it.

Nazi Scum off our streets!!!!!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/
46

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 05:24:43
Surely the BNP policy of “white only” membership is in breach of the Race Discrimination Act?

Mind you, despite having blue eyes, fair hair and a fair complexion, I would not be allowed to join either, as my IQ exceeds my age.
47

senza nome,

10/06/2009 05:41:45
#52+56:The Canadians took 1,200 casualties on Juno Beach on D-Day fighting the Nazis.Why don't you just spit on a war memorial?
48

Leon,

10/06/2009 05:45:29
Just can't make my mind up what picture to use for my desktop.

Magic!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/

Nazi Scum off our streets
49

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 05:50:22
I note that there is a “tube” strike in London today.

Judging by this article a tube was also struck yesterday as well.
50

Leon,

10/06/2009 05:51:26
Struggling here!

#4,or #6 or #8

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/

What a job they done on this rat.Crawl back into your holes.

We won't make the mistake that Germany did when the NSP was a small bunch of gangsters. Do it now!

Whenever and wherever they raise their ugly heads close them down.

If they try and spout their filth in our communities - shut them up!!!!

Nazi Scum off our streets

51

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 10/06/2009 06:08:46
The UK is starting to resemble the Weimar Republic with Reds and Fascists brawling in the streets.

What's next, wheelbarrows of money to buy a loaf of bread?

Though I absolutely deplore the BNP and their racist message, I feel maintaining freedom of speech is much more important to maintaining an open society.

Let the idiots speak so the whole country can learn what a bunch of morons they truly are.
52

Jim A,

10/06/2009 06:40:10
First off just want to say I'm not a bnp supporter. When I read your last line "If they try and spout their filth in our communities - shut them up!!!!"

And I thought, that's not a very democratic thing to do, if anything it sounds rather facist, shutting people up that is.

You see I don't think shutting them up is the answer, let them have their platform, let them speak. People are not stupid they will see them for what they really are.
53

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 10/06/2009 06:40:41
#69 Leon

"Whenever and wherever they raise their ugly heads close them down. If they try and spout their filth in our communities - shut them up!!!!"

So I guess you would feel it would be ok to throw eggs at Gordon Brown and Molotov my Labour MPs constituency office since I think that Labour is scum.
54

fife runner,

10/06/2009 06:48:56
in my opinion the anti facists are the real facists. they have denied freedom of speech. they have shown by their actions how undemocratic they are. Nick Griffen today who tomorrow if they do not like that person.
55

overton,

aberdeen 10/06/2009 06:51:18
Leon,

I don't think that you should be advocating such violence on these pages.

The BNP had two candidates elected in this democracy and that's that. If you don't agree with their politics vote for another party - that's the way it works.

Presumably your understanding of what a Nazi was or may be now only equates to what you consider the BNP's policies are?
But are their policies any more extreme than those of Muslims or Communists?

The minute you start to hit the streets in a violent fashion the more of an adverse reaction you will get and the scenes that we witnessed on the news last night will not remain as one sided in the future.

In the end though we will all suffer through ignorance of the ballot box and adherence to violent protest.
56

fife runner,

10/06/2009 06:51:22
#69 shows the ugly face of facism. also, why do they not engage Griffen in debate. they will not as this means being coherent
57

fife runner,

10/06/2009 06:52:21
do not forget probably the BNP got in because many did not vote probably this includes #69. so hell mend us all
58

Black Sabbath,

10/06/2009 06:56:20
#3 "Thank you. vote BNP.........."

Vote BNP for racism, fascism, pig ignorance and economic collapse.

" haven't wasted my time voting for many years - it's a total waste of time - they (politicians) are all thieving pigs with their snouts in the trough"

So you vote to give the state much more power. You are an idiot.
59

Media at One,

10/06/2009 07:03:34
What exactly is white supremacy?
I have never understood it. There was a talk show conversation about the issue a while ago and the host asked for a definition on "white supremacy" - And it appears that there is a fine line between proudly white and white supremacy.
If you are proud that your white ancestors invented, innovated and explored you are a white supremacist. However, if you note individuals and credit them with particular inventions and innovations, you are honouring people, end of story - No race is mentioned!
If you say that Neil Armstrong was the first white man to land on the moon, you are being racist - If you say Barak Obama was the first black President you are being historical.
If you see Madonna and other white superstars adopting African babies you call it a legalised baby stealing publicity stunt - If you saw a black superstar adopt a poor white baby from somewhere in Eastern Europe you would fall out of your chair - and then read the stories about how race relations are getting better.
If the music industry hosted a white music awards there would be an outcry, we all know that, yet the black music awards continues to this day regardless that there is no need for it anymore.
The BNP may not be everyone's cup of tea and some of their policies need stern questioning. But when you see a bunch of hippie scum throwing eggs and bottles you need to ask what the heck is going on.
And how is it that these rebel groups with their placards and their unwashed rags find the time to throw eggs and bottles in the streets when they should be at work? I looked at the images on BBC news last night and had to ask who the fascists were. It was clear that there was a man in a coat peacefully giving in an interview and from nowhere came a group of unemployed thugs behaving like anarchists.
They just advertised the BNP, they gave them more of an audience and more of chance to reach others.
Perhaps these people should go and find jobs as opposed to running
60

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 07:06:55
Freedom of speech requires some responsibility - the big one is not to deceive. The BNP try be all cuddly in public but in private they are a bunch of racist thugs. Many of the Euro candidates had convictions for racial aggravation and one of them even stated he "couldn't understand why David Cameron's disabled son was kept alive". They are absolute scum. It's a pity it wasn't bricks instead of eggs.

61

Leon,

10/06/2009 07:09:09
#'s 73 - 75

How short are you memories!

What does it take to wake up and see what is before us all!

This is no ordinary political party that should be given the rights of a democratic party these people are fascists, the self same ideology that murdered 6 million Jews,gypsies, socialists, communists, disabled, gays; anybody who did not fit into their blond blue eyed categories.

The same people who swept the dustbins of history to come up with racial stereotypes in order to identify their victims.

Whose goal was to cleanse the world of all these people they defined as subhumans.

These are the people that you want to give democratic rights to?

They are here on these posts but under instruction not to identify themselves. That is how they operate by not telling you exactly what they want to do.

Nazi Scum off our streets
62

Media at One,

10/06/2009 07:09:10
If you are voting BNP for racism, you are voting SNP for anti Britishness, you are voting Labour for illegal wars and theft from the fiscal.
Or is that just stupid?
Exactly my point, IT IS stupid, so each vote counts and each vote is legal and each vote is a democratic right so when people take to the streets and throw bottles and eggs and these apparent fascists it begs the question as to who is the more dangerous.
And another thing - I dont remember any of the 900 000 BNP fascists running amok in the streets lately throwing eggs at black people and foreigners.
63

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 07:10:12
On a lighter note, who on earth are the "indigenous population of Britain"??

Britons were Celtic, so all you Angles, Normans, Saxons, b*****r off...



64

Media at One,

10/06/2009 07:16:00
Leon #81

I disagree - I think media hype creates these emotions.
As I said earlier, some of their policies require stern questioning, but they must also be given the platform to answer these questions. You cannot just shut them up and gag them, that is how people like Hitler and Mugabe are created. We need to operate in a free democratic society and allow the people to decide what it is they want.
You are afraid of what would happen the 1 million BNP supporters became 20 million. But whilst you are worrying about that, the BNP supporter of today is worrying about the 2 million Muslim count being 22 million one day.
These are all normal fears and they need to be addressed rationally - Throwing bottles and eggs in the street is a form of anarchism and it cannot be tolerated.
Let us rather allow the BNP to speak and test them intellectually as opposed to using thuggery.
65

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 10/06/2009 07:16:38
Using violence and intimidation because you don't like someone's point of view is in itself nazi thugism.

It puts you on a par with animal extremists or terrorists using violence to achieve their aims.

This so called anti-fascist group have shown themselves to be precisely fascist thugs themselves.

All this is going to have the effect of generating sympathy & support for the BNP.

Is this anti-fascist group really genuinely so stupid they don't recognise this? Apparently.
66

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 07:17:27
#9=82- "Voting SNP for anti Britishness"

Voting SNP for Scottish self determination more like, I was waiting for a unionist to link the two, and I am not surprised who it was.
67

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 07:20:16
#85 - Oh Wiki, the bastion of honesty and truth. isn't the term "Britons" and invention itself?
68

Media at One,

10/06/2009 07:20:44
Nitton Lover

I said no such thing - thank goodness it was you who got it wrong! I knew one fool would make the mistake although I thought it would be a regular poster as opposed to a passer by.
69

Jimmy Le Pie,

10/06/2009 07:31:30
Rulesbutnotrulers, various rambling posts,



I see Alan Cochrane over at the Telegraph recognises talent when he sees it!!!

"The SNP share of the popular vote has increased by 10 per cent since the last European elections. On top of his success in the Holyrood elections two years ago, it confirms the view that it is to Mr Salmond that Scottish voters increasingly turn as their first-choice alternative to Gordon Brown and Labour.

It also shows that attacks by the Labour, Tory and Liberal Democrat parties are having hardly any effect on the SNP and none whatsoever in denting Mr Salmond's popularity.

Attacking the SNP's policies on independence and their numerous broken manifesto pledges appears to have had little impact with the public, who seem to be saying that they don't really care about these issues so long as a Salmond-led SNP looks like a respectable alternative to Labour."



A VOTE FOR NEW LABOUR SLEAZE IS A WASTED VOTE - VOTE SNP
70

Media at One,

10/06/2009 07:42:19
The BNP body guards will not be charged.
The evidence is clear for all to see.
Griffin gets out his car and walks peacefully to the interview area. At this point he is being non threatning and his body gaurds are standing there hands in front of themselves also in a non threatning manner. From nowhere an unruly and undemocratic mob of anarchists appear on the scene and attack Griffin and his supporters chasing him off a public street like a pack of hunting dogs. It is no wonder someome was going to get hurt. Those who caused the violence were not the BNP but rather those who apparently against violence.
Funny how the world works - A mob of thugs are accusing the BNP of unsavoury ethics. You couldn't make it up
71

Stan Butler,

10/06/2009 07:48:47

Hitler had a democratic mandate.


72

Jimmy Le Pie,

10/06/2009 07:50:40
Rulesbutnotrulers

Still in denial I see???

Whatever you think is irrelevant, its what the Scottish people think.

The SNP won the Holyrood election two years ago.

The SNP won the Euro elections last week.

The next Westminster election is going to see many more SNP MP's returned.

And this despite a very hostile and negative press & TV(Glen Campbell and this rag for instance).

The Scottish people can see that the SNP are the only party to put the people of Scotland first.

A VOTE FOR NEW LABOUR SLEAZE IS A WASTED VOTE - VOTE SNP

A VOTE FOR THE LIB DUMS IS A WASTED VOTE - VOTE SNP

A VOTE FOR THE TORIES IS A WASTED VOTE - VOTE SNP.

A VOTE FOR THE BNP IS AN AFFRONT TO DECENCY.

73

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 10/06/2009 07:51:02
I should think that the BNP are thanking the UAF for their clear and public disregard for the democratic process.

Between the BNP and UAF the UAF have merely demonstrated that of the two militant groups they are by far the dangerous.

If the UAF keep this up I should think another million folk will vote BNP !

The only way the mainstream can get rid of the BNP is by getting really tough on immigration and start treating people who are not in minorities less like vermin !

Or would that be too much to ask >!?
74

fermat,

10/06/2009 07:51:31
What I saw on TV was a screaming violent Stalinist mob of Labour and trade union activists armed with wooden poles,throwing missiles and intimidating a small group of peaceful middle aged men, that nobody was interested in listening to, trying to make a speech in a public place.
75

TWC,

exLabour 10/06/2009 07:56:01
I don't like BNP but 1Million people think they represent them. This attack was organised and needs to be investigated.
What is it thet the Big parties are not doing for these voters.


76

KampungHighlander,

10/06/2009 07:58:46
#91 Rules

The professionals (Paleo Anthropologists) classify Britons as Brythonic Celts.

#79 Media

"a bunch of hippie scum throwing eggs"

Another extinct human sub species, you must be really old.

#81 Leon

"This is no ordinary political party that should be given the rights of a democratic party these people are fascists"

And who would you have determine whether or not someone deserves democratic rights? You? The Mob? The State?

You either allow the most abhorrent to speak or you end up on the slippery slope that leads to all of us having our freedom of speech curtailed.

So after we take away the rights of the BNP whose next? I can tell you that mob on display yesterday will be at the top most every bodies list.

Frankly, silencing a bunch of brain dead racists is just not important enough to risk our personal freedoms.

77

jack1488,

Australia 10/06/2009 08:00:22
the anti-Fascists obviously don't believe in democracy if they can't accept the voters' choice.
78

Selgovae,

10/06/2009 08:04:19
#83 NittonLover

I also find the idea of "indigenous people" amusing. I haven't looked recently, but the BNP website used to draw some kind of line around those descended from people who were here just after the Anglo-Celtic invasions. So any of you descended from the Normans had better watch out. I guess Robert the Bruce would be given his marching orders.

On a more serious note, while I have no respect for those who throw eggs or conduct other mob-like behaviour , I think the BNP should be continually harassed and challenged about their policies. I also think there is a case for passing laws to make them an illegal organisation. One principle of our unwritten constitution is that everyone is equal under the law. The BNP don't seem to hold to this and advocate separate rules for "indigenous" people and others, even though all are UK citizens. While they make much of the notion that minority groups are favoured over "indigenous" people, nowhere is this enshrined in law. Equality under the law is a fundamental principle without which democracy can't work. It should be strongly protected.
79

Stan Butler,

10/06/2009 08:05:34
99 fermat

'small group of peaceful middle aged men'


Are you aware that one of this small group of peaceful middle age men, Andrew Brons, the newly elected BNP MEP, is a former member of the National Socialist Movement an avowed pro Hitler, pro Nazi organisation?

80

paulr,

edinburgh 10/06/2009 08:08:34
#12 Are you really so naive that you cant see beyond the glossy new front that the bnp are now hiding behind?
Or as is more likely , are you really a bnp supporter in disguise?
81

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 08:10:14
94 Rulesbutnotrulers

“With under 8% SNP got fewer votes than it got last Euro”

Oh really?



Here are the scores on the doors covering the last ten years of Euro Elections



1999 SNP Euro Vote:268,528 (27.17%)

2004 SNP Euro Vote :231,505 (19.6%)

2009 SNP Euro Vote: 321,007 (29.1%)

82

Selgovae,

10/06/2009 08:10:59
Oops. I made a mistake at #106,. Instead of "Anglo-Celtic" invasions, I meant "Anglo-Scottish" invasions.
83

sam the god,

10/06/2009 08:12:13
So much for democracy in this country the police should be arresting the UAF for common assault or do the UAF think that they are above the law. Like it or lump it the BNP were democratically elected whether it was a protest vote or not
84

Stan Butler,

10/06/2009 08:14:36
100 TWC


'What is it thet the Big parties are not doing for these voters.'


They're not offering up a simplistic solution or a convenient scapegoat. They're not pandering to people's basest instincts.

You're a nationalist. You should be able to understand the appeal of the BNP.




85

,

10/06/2009 08:19:27
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86

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 08:19:43
112 Stan Butler

I am a social-democrat who supports the left-leaning social democratic SNP and have no understanding whatsoever of those who support the fascist parties.
87

voltaire's janny,

10/06/2009 08:21:10

Hate is hate; free speech is just that.

The scum here are the ones claiming their right to intimidate another group with different if odious views.

88

TWC,

exLabour 10/06/2009 08:22:59
112 Stan Butler,

I am not a Nat, and I do not support BNP.
My worry is that 1 Million people would support an Extremist Party.

I want Fiscal Autonomy for Scotland not Independence, but I will accept Independence rather that Status Quo.

You just accept whatever the Party tell you I do not.

I think the Big parties(which incl the Nats) are too busy being politically correct to address / debate the problems which are causing this.

Even here you fail to debate, you just acused me of being a nationalst without reason.
89

letmein,

hinterland 10/06/2009 08:24:51
You can bleat all you like about the BNP, but the reason they are in is because of the trough swilling bunch of sheite who have run this country in to the ground in the last twelve years.
90

voltaire's janny,

10/06/2009 08:25:25
#101 well said, sir.
91

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 08:27:09
Leon you cant pick and choose who enters the democratic process.

If parties have failed to get there message across and anati facist groups have clearly failed they should be out educateing and engageing with those who wish to vote this way.

I find communism just as sinister as facism you only have to look at stalin led communism to see that in reality the diffrence between the two is the spelling.

However would chaseing a communist MSP down the street assaulting him /her be acceptable of course not.

If Griffins security people used excessive force they should be called to account. but at the same point if it is shown that police officers did not intervene they too should be brought to task.
92

Courtney,

East Molesey 10/06/2009 08:27:28
The Demonstrators are worse than the BNP. Do as I do or we will rough you up is their mantra: we habe heard it all before from Hitlar, Stalin, Mussolini, et al!
93

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 08:29:26
The UAF have every right to protest against the BNP, it is tehre democratic rights as well. As for them using violence, it was EGGS they were pelting, not as I would have prefered, large concrete bricks.


94

,

10/06/2009 08:30:37
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95

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 08:31:43
#119 - yes you can choose, the BNP misrepresent themselves, so don't follow the rules for a free speech.
96

UrbanFox,

Edinburgh 10/06/2009 08:31:55
A very stupid own-goal by UAF, likely to attract more votes for the BNP. Like them or not, the BNP were democratically elected and have a right to speak freely. Where were the police, still guarding Sir Fred's house?
97

voltaire's janny,

10/06/2009 08:32:31
#116 - worry not. Everyone knows that the BNP will never be in a position to make policy and a swing of votes for them is a protest. The main parties study polls in great minutiae and if Mr Angry of Purley wants them to consider the implications of immigration, what other choice has he than to vote for a looney party espousing views way beyond his own Little Englander discomfiture with Johnny Foreigner.

The electorate may include simpletons and boors but collectively they are a sophisticated lot. Egg chucking on the other hand is thuggery, pure and simple.
98

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 08:33:26
#122 - Throwing eggs is not violence.





99

Brideun,

Culloden 10/06/2009 08:36:24
A family friend has just returned to the Highlands after many years in Australia and is appaled by the anti-English racism from so many people with out any logical explanation. Perhaps it is the influx of central belt workers for the oil industry which changed the tolerant culture of the North, a gradual change which was unnoticed by locals but obvious to someone who had been away for a few years.
100

,

10/06/2009 08:36:58
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101

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 08:37:18
Don't think for a second Griffin wasn't hoping for this outcome. He should have had his press conference in a beer keller, more to type for his ilk, not out in the open.
102

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 08:37:23
NittonLover '119 - yes you can choose, the BNP misrepresent themselves'.

On that basis you can rule out Labour, the communist party, SSP ETC ETC.

YOU HAVE A POOR GRASP OF DEMOCRACY
103

,

10/06/2009 08:37:54
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104

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 08:38:10
#129 - It was a JOKE you humourless pratt.
105

,

10/06/2009 08:39:32
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106

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 08:43:20
I would be reluctant to endorse the use of violence to express my abhorrence of the policies and practices of the small and insignificant fascist advocates.

Instead those of us who benefit from a sufficient degree of education or are otherwise reasonably intelligent, should employ all the other weapons at our disposal, such as; reason, logic, numeracy, literacy, scorn, ridicule and satire.

Above all, we should be maximising our efforts to defeat these sinister and despicable morons at the ballot box.
107

,

10/06/2009 08:45:55
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108

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 08:46:19
135 spot on in his sky interveiw on sunday night he was made to look rather stupid. yesterday he was made to look as a victim of repression and intimidation which would the anti faceists prefer.
109

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 08:47:58
I speak of Nick Griffin MEP OF COURSE
110

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 08:50:34
These tactics remind me of Sinn Fein have rent a mobs on call to intimidate rival party campaigners
111

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 09:01:22
#134 - Eh, I haven't insulted anyone else, don't be so sensitive.

In a general note, of course violence can be justified, heard of the Second World War by any chance? That was pretty violent.

As for "using the mob", a tactic used by the far right,as well as the far left. I also remeber the "mob tatic" used by Labour MPs, to drown out every speech by SDP MPs in the House of Commons in the 1980s.




112

Boab,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 09:08:27
The BNP's theme song should be 'We're not evil (or are we?)'. Like pro-lifers and terrorists, they basically just want to get on the telly and spoil everyone's day. Chucking eggs at them gives them the attention they crave; the UAF mean well but are helping to give them headlines.
113

Anderman,

Victoria BC 10/06/2009 09:08:43
#53 Pomodora what a joy it is to read a comment where the writer can actually recreate the scene and articulate the story to meaninful political insight. Certainly not the usual sluggish comments one reads in these columns. I totally agree with your analysis of Herr Griffin and his futile attempt to emulate his idol and the demon of fascism that a Nazi is a Nazi is a Nazi. The misguided here who banter the word democracy,like they understand it, are the same who have laid the seeds for BNP enterprise who will require their services for only one day every five years and the misguided others who see the BNP as a party to support have surely exhausted all frustration and come to the end of their rope by actually pledging to vote for the miscreants. Should anyone intend to respond by throwing Voltaire in my face please refrain, for Voltaire got it wrong!
114

Anthony,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 09:17:14
According to the BBC, public opinion is now swinging behind the BNP in relation to the egg throwing incident! The ratio is apparently 20:1 in favour of Nick Griffin being allowed to speak without threats, and against UAF. I wonder how public opinion will harden still further when people are told that the three main parties - labour tory and lib dem fund and support UAF! It's a nice wee trick, fund a front organisation to break up the meetings of another political party posing a common threat to the mainstream.
115

,

10/06/2009 09:19:02
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116

,

10/06/2009 09:21:31
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117

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 09:22:12
#89 - just noticed it, - not wanting to make this anymore of a pantomime, "oh yes you did...", I cut and pasted from your post. I don't know anyone who voted SNP for "anti-British" reasons.

The debate on independance has long since left that narrow mindedness behind. It is only the pro-unionists who want to keep that redundant debate up.
118

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 09:24:44
#144 and 145 - I said "anyone else"...you are still humourless I see.

In certain circumstances violence is justified, as WW2 proves. Irag wasn't, I didn't say it was.

119

Jimmy Le Pie,

10/06/2009 09:29:26
Most right thinking people are appalled by the BNP and their odious policies (which is why only a very small minority support them!)

The danger of banning parties like the BNP is who decides which parties are 'suitable'??
Comrade Broon?????

The best way to beat these idiots is addressing the reasons that people vote for them, not banning them.


Ridicule seems to work well against New Labour Sleaze, so maybe that's the way to deal with the BNP????
120

Dún Aenghus,

10/06/2009 09:30:24
Have the police made any provisions for the guarding of Scotland's orange halls?
121

Winters,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 09:30:24
The BNP are abhorrent of course but who are the UAF. I am always suspicious of these kind of groups. I don't think they are genuine democrats.
Are they the same people who attend the Stop the War demos with placards that support the policies of George Galloway on the middle east?
122

,

10/06/2009 09:31:21
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123

Dún Aenghus,

10/06/2009 09:33:14
#150 If George Galloway is all for returning stolen lands and properties back to its rightful owners,then I for one am right behind him!
124

cabrach loon,

inverness 10/06/2009 09:33:16
the most worrying aspect of this was the invisibility of the police, especially in front of parliament. THere must have been an order from the top dop stay away and this must be illegal! Compare with the G8, G20 etc. dos.
Secondly the very violent protesters as said by so many were bearing out what the BNP concerns are whether true, overstated or not!
The police should have been there!
Why not Home Secretary?
125

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 09:36:16
#151 - No, probably not, the UAF played into the BNPs hands, Griffin wanted to be able to say "look, they are trying to silence me and stop from telling the truth...", but I throughly enjoyed it, never the less.



126

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 09:36:35
142 Anderman

There are many quotes attributed to Voltaire, however I assume you are referring to this one (I may be paraphrasing):

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Essentially, (or even existentially if you prefer), I agree with the underlying philosophy behind that statement.

I would perhaps however change only one word in that statement, instead of “disapprove” I would insert “dispute”.

Therein we have the basis of democracy.
You say what you have to say, I say what I have to say, and then let the electorate decide.
127

,

10/06/2009 09:37:18
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128

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 09:41:37
#156 - And heres me thinking the EU was setup to prevent Europe from destroying itself (again) by making every nation inter-dependant via free trade. How wrong I was.

129

Dún Aenghus,

Scottish Democrat of the SNP. 10/06/2009 09:41:42
#139 Thistle.
Is it not true that the uvf and the uda are aligned with the BNP!Is it not true that most of these racist and sectarian murdering thugs are also members of the orange order both here in Scotland and in the north east of Ireland? Hmmmm! Its easy to see why you are defending the fascists.
130

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 09:43:53
Public funding for the UAF should be withdrawn if this behavior is accepted then we can look forward to the BNP doing the same to the UAF and lets face it they could hardley complain.
131

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 09:46:40
158 EH? if you read my posts i make it clear that i do not agree with them (the BNP) and i dont remember mentioning any of the above illegal Terrorist groups you have brought in for some reason.
132

Dún Aenghus,

10/06/2009 09:46:57
#159 Go away, you apologist for fascism!
You would have been at home in Franco's Spain.
133

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 09:47:42
#159 - IS the UAF publicly funded?? The BNP will be now thanks to the "misguided" voters.
134

New kid on the blog,

10/06/2009 09:51:03
Why was my comment removed? no bad language or offensive comment!? Just plain speaking. Explanation please>
135

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 09:51:53
Yet again i am not a Fascist cant you read.

cant coment on Franco's Spain but i dont think it would have been a laot of fun in a communist/stalinist Spain either
136

Dún Aenghus,

10/06/2009 09:53:39
#160 Thistle.
The reason I mentioned the connection between the uda uvf and BNP, was because you chose to mention Sinn Fein,inferring that they were the only group causing problems. Its called selective condemnation.
Condemn one, condemn all!
137

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 09:54:13
I note that “Dave from Barra” in his Gàidhlig manifestation has been bumped from the forum.

Does anyone know why, have I missed something?
138

Dún Aenghus,

10/06/2009 09:56:00
# 164 Totally agree!
139

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 09:57:22
165 your comments have no relavence to what is being debated i pointed out the calibre of people who indulge in political thuggery such as we seen yesterday
140

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 10:00:16
#167 - I don't think so, the UAF aren't wanting to "remove" all "non-indigenous" people from the UK, that is "intolerance" to an extreme, please get some perspective.
141

Dún Aenghus,

10/06/2009 10:00:42
#169 Provide here and now proof of Sinn Fein being involved in "rent a mob" activity.
Times dates and places ,please?
142

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 10:05:11
The reality is had Griffin been allowed to have his say yesterday he would have probaly done more harm than good to his cause as his performance on sky News on Sunday night shown.

Are people stateing that if you do not like what a political movement is saying or stands for you are wellcome to attack them in a way you choose?
143

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 10:06:21
167 Rulesbutnotrulers


Have you learned to count yet, or are you still attending the Rufus School of arithmetic?
144

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 10:06:26
171 every elction that has been held in Northern Ireland most of the time it has been the SDLP on the receiving end as for proof seen it with my own eyes
145

Dún Aenghus,

10/06/2009 10:07:09
#169 Thistle.
With you it is obviously a case of sour grapes,since both nationalist parties,ie SNP and SF topped the polls in the European elections,here in Scotland and in the north of Ireland.
146

Dún Aenghus,

10/06/2009 10:08:36
#174 Thistle.
Put up or shut up! Dates Times Places ,please.
147

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 10:11:16
sour grapes ? i do not see the relation between a democratic party and a front for retired terrorists
148

Dún Aenghus,

10/06/2009 10:13:36
#174 Thistle.........OK. so you cant provide proof!
I accept your total surrender.
Must go now,democrats unlike fascists,have jobs.
149

New kid on the blog,

Borders 10/06/2009 10:14:42
Thia is the man, nick griffin, who named his two farmyard pigs Anne & Frank, after the young Jewish girl, Anne Frank who was held and tortured in a nazi concentration camp until her death- and consequently made famous by the discovery of her diary with its graphic account of her life inside the camp. Nick griffin apparntly found it highly amusing that victims of the Holocaust had been 'turned into lampshades'
What kind of a society would 'dare to care' if a few harmless eggs were thrown at an evil scumbag like him? The people who did so should be given a knighthood! It takes courage to do what they did. A word nick grifin wouldn't understand if it was shoved up his a**** and came out thru his mouth, which would make a welcome change from the usual hate filled rhetoric we have to listen too. He forfeited ANY right to freedom of speech when he uttered the above vile words.
150

kpm,

unsworth 10/06/2009 10:14:59
My understanding is that a hard boiled egg skilfully thrown, can have a far more harmful and lasting effect.
151

MoiraMac,

10/06/2009 10:15:16
148-Jimmy Le Pie
The best way to beat these idiots is addressing the reasons that people vote for them, not banning them.

I agree it's time to listen to what people are saying. Find out why they voted BNP and why so many people did not vote. Banging on and on and on about 'racism' is really not very helpful.
152

Andy Ritchie's left boot,

10/06/2009 10:15:29
Anyone know if they were white eggs or brown eggs?

He was whisked away covered in eggs. Am I not right in thinking that could turn him into a souffle, or a meringue? No, I'm right... boom boom.
153

muppetspotter,

Edinburgh 10/06/2009 10:16:19
The responsibility for the rise of this odious bunch sits with us all - and with those we have elected to lead us politically. Recent events both in the economy and the parliament have highlighted how parliament has lost the confidence of the people. When people feel disenfranchised and persecuted, because they do not feel their points are being addressed by those in power then they will be ripe for exploitation by the political extreme - history has proven this many times.

The main political parties are misguided in their refusal to engage with the BNP in debate. The BNP are now a reality on our political landscape and the only way to destroy them is to remove their support by engaing in debate, exposing their flawed arguements and winning the BNP voter back into the fold.

We live in a democracy - one of the problems with democracy is that you will have to listen to those with whom you do not agree and often whose opinions might be downright offensive to your sensibilities. That is why we have a parliament - to allow government by the consensus of the majority. If voters wish to vote BNP then it is their democratic right to do so no matter how much we disagree with them.

I have been very uncomfortable with the current Westminster government and their legislation over what can be deemed as offensive by others - homophobia, racial hatred, religious offence are all disrespectful and can be downright offensive but to criminalise them is to deny freedom of speech which is the fundement of democracy. They understand this in the USA, we don't seem to understand it in Europe. I may disagree with what you say but I will lay down my life for your right to say it - this is fundemental.

The proof in the pudding is in the eating. By refusing to engage with the BNP, by legislating against opinion (no matter how offensive) by hounding BNP members out of their jobs all the mainstream politicians are doing is martyring these people and futher alienating them. These wel
154

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 10:16:38
the 2201 and one elction i remember a incident where SinnFein Activist took control of a ballot box by force also in the same campaign Mark Durkan i think it was was attacked also i witness and had to stepp in several incidents where canvasers from the sdlp were attacked in cookstown.
155

Thistledhu,

10/06/2009 10:18:07
Dún Aenghus surely you do not deny this goes on ?
156

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 10:19:14
#176/177

Beware of being sidetracked down a Unionist blind alley.

Your little spat only gives succour to those who would oppose Scotland’s progress towards our ultimate goal.
Remember the classic establishment tactic of divide and conquer.

Decline to fall into that obvious trap.
157

John1,

Stirling 10/06/2009 10:19:49
157 NittonLover,Newtongrange 10/06/2009 09:41:37
#156 - And heres me thinking the EU was setup to prevent Europe from destroying itself (again) by making every nation inter-dependant via free trade. How wrong I was.
-----------------------------------
Yes, you were wrong - the EU was created to provide a cushy number for the non-elected bureaucrats who run it. The EU 'parliament' has no powers. All the military attempts to occupy this country and destroy its democracy having failed the same people who tried that have succeeded using the 'EU' approach.
On the BNP subject, I watched the ITV news and was appalled at their sycophantic attitude to the 'demonstrators'. There was no questioning of why there was no sign of the police, a heavy concentration on the lady in the red coat who was knocked over in the melee - they blamed the BNP for that - and an interview with a 'demonstrator' afterward - no BNP comments. Like most people I have no time for the reported attitudes of the BNP but after this I am beginning to wonder just how accurate that reporting is. Where do we turn for the facts? Not to the media, I fear.
158

Davy,

10/06/2009 10:22:48
That stupid egg throwing has given the bmp more support & sympathy from Mr Joe public
As far as the BMP are concerned this incident can only be advantages.
159

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 10:23:36


On anti-semitism
In 1997, Nick Griffin published a booklet entitled "Who are the Mind Benders?". It claimed to prove that Jewish people controlled the British media and thereby were able to brainwash white British people into accepting multiculturalism.

BBC website
160

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

Renfrew 10/06/2009 10:24:08
Bereno #6. You eaid "As I have said before, those who tend to vote BNP have not exactly contributed to British society themselves."
What do you base that stament on and where do you get that information that substantiates it?
161

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 10:25:17


On the Holocaust
Between 1995 and 1997, Nick Griffin edited 'The Rune'. Griffin referred to the Holocaust as a "Holohoax".

In 1998 Nick Griffin said, "I am well aware that the orthodox opinion is that 6 million Jews were gassed and cremated and turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also also once held that the Earth was flat... I have reached the conclusion that the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria."

162

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 10:26:22


On homosexuality
Griffin wrote an article for Spearhead in June 1999 after the Admiral Duncan pub bombing. He said, "The TV footage of dozens of gay demonstrators flaunting their perversions in front of the world's journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures so repulsive."

163

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 10:30:00
...Looks like the anti fascists are not the only ones using violence as a means to an end...but we already knew that now..didnt we?

On the BNP
In 1995 he wrote in the Rune, "the electors of Millwall did not back a post modernist rightist party but what they perceived to be a strong, disciplined organisation with the ability to back up its slogan 'Defend Rights for Whites' with well-directed boots and fists. When the crunch comes power is the product of force and will, not of rational debate."
164

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 10:33:32
#187 - Wow, what a complete load of paranoid tosh. Who let you out?
165

Stan Butler,

10/06/2009 10:34:14
#192 Horrible


Are we to assume that Griffin wasn't one of Martin Webster's conquests?


166

,

10/06/2009 10:34:50
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167

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 10:35:04
..and here he is admitting to covering up the true nature of the BNP..."White supremacy"...in order to make the nazi party a more "Saleable" product..more palatable to the British public...

'In April 2001 Griffin spoke to the American Friends of the BNP. He said, "So, what are we now doing with the British National Party? Well we tried to simplify its message in some ways and to make it a saleable message. So it's not white supremacy or racial civil war or anything like that, which is what we know in fact is going on, and we're not supremacists, we're white survivalists, even that frightens people. Four apple pie words, freedom, security, identity and democracy."'

Four "Apple pie words" folks..yes indeedy..more palatable to the gullible and naive...cos after all...racist nazi would stick in the throat now wouldnt it?

You can actually watch his speech to the American "Friends" of the BNP on Youtube..word for word...
168

AJ Fife,

10/06/2009 10:36:49
The best policy when dealing with the BNP is to let them speak.

All right minded people would soon see through the thin fascade of Griffin and his henchmen, and recognise the true dispicable nature of the BNP.
169

Davy,

10/06/2009 10:37:50
Horrible Cankers
Yes nobody can deny this.
A large section of the population believes this. Would you like your mother or father, grandmother or grandfather to perform in the street in that way? Even though they do it in a heterosexual manner?
It would be amusing I must admit
170

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 10:42:12
#198 - if the BNP actually said what they meant then yes, let their own words condemn them. But they don't, Griffin tries to claim they are not a racist party, and any reasonably inteligent person knows their core support is deeply rascist.



171

Stan Butler,

10/06/2009 10:42:25
126 NittonLover

'Throwing eggs is not violence'


Agreed.

I have a vague recollection of a court decision where it was held that throwing eggs at political figures was a legitimate if extreme expression of dissent. It is a well established and honourable tradition.

If this incident helps to shine a light on the underbelly of the BNP then that's all to the good.



172

Willie Mor,

10/06/2009 10:46:11
In the absence of a functioning democracy where a rotten and corrupt Labour government will not call a general election, is it any surprise that nearly a million people in England have turned to the BNP.

Corruption after corruption, sleaze after sleaze,an economy in ruins, and the big man with the iron fist carries on.

Well, when politicians are above the law, and above the people, the rise of groups such as the BNP will only get worse.

Who needs democracy Mr Brown when all you need is the iron fist and a god given right to rule?

So carry on Mr Brown,, do not call an election, spin spin spin and spin again, and let us wait for the fireworks.
173

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 10:46:45
195...Dunno...looks like a case o' 'Sour grapes' to me..mibbe Griffin couldnt handle the rejection and it left him mentally scarred poor wee soul...or mental....
174

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 10:46:58
196 Western Isles Dog

You would not happen to be related to my family size Toblerone providing friend?

If you do not understand the analogy, then perhaps you are not.

175

John1,

Stirling 10/06/2009 10:49:27
194 NittonLover,Newtongrange 10/06/2009 10:33:32
#187 - Wow, what a complete load of paranoid tosh. Who let you out?
-------------------------
What are you basing that opionion on?
176

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 10:50:02
#202 - To be fair to labour (not like me at all), the Tories wrote the book on corruption, why vote one lot of crooks out and another in? As for the UKIP, 25% of their MEPs where done for fraud and the electorate still gave them support.



177

Mèths,

10/06/2009 10:50:46
So the far-right Dutch MP Geert Wilders is refused entry to UK, but we can grow our own?
178

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 10:52:53
#205 - Read your own post. Do you honestly believe the tripe you wrote? I mean claiming the EU is a plot to invade the UK. So De Daul, when he famously said NO to UK entry in the 1960s was actualy doing what??

179

Laird O'Gorgie,

10/06/2009 10:53:21
The left in Britain have a long history of violence to intimidate opponents. What next - throwing eggs at voters who support BNP. The whole object of democracy is to listen to arguments and then decide on who to support; not put the boot in when you disgaree with their views.
#201 Let me know where you live. I'll happily come and thorw eggs at you and that other prat Nithead all day. As its not violence you clearly won't mind.
180

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 10:54:39
208 - That should be De Gaulle of course.
181

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 10:58:11
199...Irrelevant...the man has the vulgarity to condemn defiant lesbians and gays when their friends and lovers have been murdered by a BNP member attempting to stir up homophobia...a pregnant woman died in this bombing...Their response was "We will not go away"...

A member of his party ends the lives of 3 people and an unborn child..a member of his party physically and mentally scars 70 other people with a nail bomb and Nick Griffin has the cheek to condemn a few defiant gays...he is utterly repugnant...a vile odious individual who hides the truth re his, and his party's, white supremacy views.....in order to further his attempts at suppressing black and asians who live in Britain..

They believe in "White supremacy" and "White power" for gawds sake!...only now they will not speak openly of it as it will deny them credibility...

These people were telling him "You didnt win, we are still here"...and quite right too..
182

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 10:58:46
#209 - Now really, that is uncalled for. Didn't say throwing eggs was pleasant, but it is not violent.

183

MoiraMac,

10/06/2009 10:59:32
#183 muppetspotter
Thank you. What you say makes sense to me.
It would be of interest to hear other posters discuss what you have said instead of banging on and on about the same thing over and over. OK! We have established that the BNP are racist/Nazis can we move on to discuss why they have been elected.

#202
I'm not convinced that having an election will be the answer. The BNP will still gain the same number of votes and the vast majority of the population are so disillusioned they will not turn out to vote.
184

John1,

Stirling 10/06/2009 11:00:32
208
Look at the present situation. De Gaul was anti-British but was not the only one involved. We're in the EU now, aren't we?
185

,

10/06/2009 11:01:32
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186

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 11:09:35
#214 - By all means say the EU is too pro free trade or moving too fast towards integration or too corrupt, but as a vehicle to overthrow the UK, now really.


187

Davy,

10/06/2009 11:09:41
Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen
Thank you for your rant
It did not answer my question
Never mind you have your own agenda
In the mean time support for the BNP is growing all because of an egg.



188

nostress,

grangemouth 10/06/2009 11:13:14
Of course the real scandal in all of this is true Brit Gordon Bulldog Brown with his "British jobs for British workers" speech...talk about pandering to the nazis!

That alone makes him completely unfit to be PM.
189

,

10/06/2009 11:14:40
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190

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 11:16:51
#79, Media at One.

I raised the "white supremcay" point, so I'll answer your apologist comment.

"White supremacy", or the BNP euphemism, "proudly white" is naked racism.

It is predicated on the myth that the "white" man is inately superior to those of any other skin pigmentation.
This myth is a construct of rapacious Europe.

Before European "Civilsation" we had those of China, India and Egypt.
During the Dark Ages of Europe we had the Moorish Enlightenment (Muslim) which preserved learning in Europe, for the "proudly white".

None of the "white" achievements, that you mention, would have been possible without the knowledge discovered, and developed by these "inferior non-whites".

In conclusion, "white supremacy/proudly white" is racism in its extreme form; it is based on lies and distortions of history.

It is, also, a base method of engendering scapegoating.

"White supremacy/Proudly white" is a thinly veiled New Ayrian Project.
191

Davy,

10/06/2009 11:19:05

nova albion 2
I say abolish the egg, you know it makes sense.
192

ecosseman,

FACTS NOT PROPAGANDA 10/06/2009 11:38:46
VOTE FOR SNP.

VOTE FOR SCOTLAND.

VOTE SNP VOTE SNP VOTE SNP VOTE SNP VOTE SNP

ROLL ON THE ELECTION!
193

bluehead,

edinburgh 10/06/2009 11:44:43
any racism problems have been caused by the labour goverment by losing control of the amount of people who should be allowed in to this country,everyone knows that is the truth'
it is sad to think, that that mob of excreys who were throwing eggs and things are now allies of the labour goverment ,
talk about stooping to win ,the labour pile have sunk even lower than I thought possible,
however they have no need to worry now that they have the excrey mob on their side for obviously they will do the dirty work for them,I read also that brown intends to clean up politics well if he does that there wont be any politicians,for there is little or no chance of an honest politician surviving amongst all the corruption that is going on nowadays,
this country has now descended into the dark cesspool
and I doubt if it will ever surface again
194

Paesano,

10/06/2009 11:54:25
#221 the egg should have been banned quite some time ago, they are the evil tool of dissident thinkers and trouble makers.

Although it is worth remembering what the late Hon Nick Fairbairn once said, we should remind ourselves that we also originated from eggs. The debate over whether some of these should have ever been fertilised will wrangle on for eternity. It's a tough one.

So, what's the take home message here chaps - that democratically elected fascists are bad but unelected fascists groups funded & organised by opposing political parties are good?

I hope the cost of the eggs don't end up being re-imbursed at a future date when cunningly slipped through on the next raft of help-yourself expense submissions from the underlying supporting persons. We can just about come to terms with paying for bird housing but we will not stand for paying for the fr1ckin eggs too.
195

donnelly,

10/06/2009 11:54:26
#209 ..totally agree with your comment.

Leaving the political emphisis aside here.. as for being not voilent and acceptable in political stances ? ....please enlgihten me on that deduction?

...throwing anyting in what is an agressive act is voilent no matter what context.
By your assumptions Nit'lover & Stan if I throw one at you and by chance it hits you in the eye and by chance you are then made blind ? ...then you agree I can walk away "scot-free" as I was not being voilent and your serious injury can be assumed as tough luck ?

Additionally, going on the politically accepted direciton... if for instance you were say anti-royalist ? ...are you going to tell me that you could throw and egg at the Queen or Pr Phillip and walk away without recoarse ? ..DONT THINK SO !!

196

Davy,

10/06/2009 11:56:54
We all have a bit of racism in us.
Every country in the world small towns and villages
The racism could be cullor or just people moving from city to town or village
People trust the people they know & feel safe with and what have been brought up with.
When strangers arrive they may have different cultures & different beliefs they feel threatened.
It has always been that way.
That will never change as history has proven.
A sad fact of life.
197

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 11:59:35
#225 - Good grief, I said it was not violent, I didn't say you couldn't be prosecuted for it.



198

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 12:01:42
217...Davy sunshine had I been there...I would have joined them and added my voice to their protest...no agenda mate...protest against a nazi murderer and his attempts to oppress gays and lesbians...I am not afraid of these people..I have no reason to be...if you are, thats your problem..
199

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 12:03:31
..And of course followers of the National Front, who are now the BNP...were never known for violence now were they?
200

donnelly,

10/06/2009 12:04:54
#225 ...so, in opinion, is not voilent, but you still agree it is act of crime (aka you can be prosecuted) ????

Lets agree to drop the subject mate, you are digging a bigger hole for yourself

LOL
201

Herman The German,

10/06/2009 12:05:11
40 Starance,
Is a soppy little 21 year old from Ayrshire,who has been posting on every forum known to mankind,posing as disalusioned mainstream voter,when infact he is a rabid BNP activist.
202

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

Renfrew 10/06/2009 12:07:17
When you read the theatrics above, I'll never understand why they closed the old Glasgow Empire ? ?
203

Sedov,

10/06/2009 12:09:50
Make no mistake, Scotland is not immune from the racist and fascist arguments of the BNP who stand for the supremecy of indegenous white people against all others.

British nationalism is the other side of the coin to Scottish nationalism whose underlying message is "Scotland for the Scottish" and "whaes like us"

The rise of the BNP is solely because of the failure of New Labour and its worship of capitalism and all it stands for.

The euro elections have seen a swing to the right, including Scotland although some idiots on the left, including the tired old SSP see the increased vote for the SNP in Scotland as a swing to the left using this completely false argument in the context of the lower support for Labour in Scotland.

The SNP are a centre right party and its policies are not far of New Labour!! - they will make no difference in Scotland and only a rejuvinated party of Labour with a bold socialist programme will begin to tackle the problems of Scotland

Watch this space.



204

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 12:11:53
#52

"I wish Canada had something like the BNP."

Surely you must see the irony of your above statement?

You do realise that if Canada had a BNP equivalent they would be advocating the removal of ex-pat immigrants like YOU from canada?
205

Tris,

10/06/2009 12:15:53
#52. Why?
206

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 12:16:47
#233

"British nationalism is the other side of the coin to Scottish nationalism whose underlying message is "Scotland for the Scottish" and "whaes like us""

Undoubtedly there are SNP supporters who are rabidly anti-English and would no doubt love to see all English and non-Scots (i.e. non-white Scots) thrown out of Scotland if it becomes independent.

However, they are a small minority - the SNP itself, and the vast majority of their supporters, would welcome anyone from the EU to Scotland, and see all asians, blacks etc who live here as 'Scottish' - unlike the BNP.
207

Davy,

10/06/2009 12:25:47
Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen
Some of what you say makes sense, and then you seem to lose it.
Would you have thrown that egg & in doing so, increase the popularity of the BNP.
Is that the message you are delivery
Or you actually a BNP supporter

Is this reverse psychology that is being practised here?
208

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 12:27:32
#79

"If you say that Neil Armstrong was the first white man to land on the moon, you are being racist - If you say Barak Obama was the first black President you are being historical."

Neil Armstrong was the first man on the moon full-stop. Barack Obama was not the first President. That is the difference.
209

Tartan Viking,

10/06/2009 12:32:57
Things whould be balanced up if the ANTI-FASCIST groups threw eggs at some of the hate-filled Muslim Clerics.
210

,

10/06/2009 12:37:15
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211

Silence of the Yams,

10/06/2009 12:48:34
Griffin's media despised party are starting to look like victims thanks to David Scumeron's rentamob. I hope that 6% goes up and up and up.
212

,

10/06/2009 12:48:37
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213

Paesano,

10/06/2009 12:49:02
There is no need to bring Obama into an egg throwing incident!

While there are a few pre-occupied with race and the delicate presentation of how anything related to race should be worded it is worth pointing out that Obama is half black and half white. I'm not sure there is value in the media romping on & on about him being black when he is fact mixed race - and arguably completely marginalising his white orgin, something which the man himself does not do.

I remember black resentment over Tiger Woods refusal to accept he was black but in fact mixed race, being one quarter African-American. So even when the person at the core just wants to stick to the facts you end up p1$$ing folk off where race is involved. You will just never please everyone.
214

radge dug,

10/06/2009 12:54:47
Aye, it's a fact that Hitler used democracy. He himself said that the only thing that would have stopped him was if he and his thugs had been violently stopped at birth. We HAVE to learn from history.

The Bnp, like Muslim fascists and Christian extremists, WILL use whatever freedoms they can get to deny everyone else theirs.

Oppose them whenever possible.
215

radge dug,

10/06/2009 12:58:29
In recent years, Bnp members have attacked Irish and Catholic groups and meetings, trade unionists and lesbian and gays. I remember reading about a disabled car that was vandalised by the BNP in York a few years ago.

If anyone thinks these Nazis only want to send home 'the darkies' then you're mistaken. Stop them now.
216

radge dug,

10/06/2009 12:59:21
If anyone doubts the above, go and check out their criminal records. Makes the thieves of Labour and Tory look like a group of virgins.
217

radge dug,

10/06/2009 13:00:21
And yeah, I blame Labour and Tory for this. Not only for their thieving but for using slogans like 'British jobs for British workers'.

Forward to an indpendent and fascist-free Scotland.
218

Silence of the Yams,

10/06/2009 13:00:36
244. I don't see any "Muslim fascists" getting similar harassment from white leftists. For example, hate preacher and convicted terrorist Omar Bakri was allowed to give hate sermons in the middle of a London street for years without a peep from this group.
219

radge dug,

10/06/2009 13:01:37
Imagine, if the SNP were to say 'Scottish homes for Scots' and all English 'white-settlers' who refused to speak/learn Gaelic were ejected from their Highland homes and sent back??!!
220

radge dug,

10/06/2009 13:03:10
#248 - No? I remember gay left-wings groups opposing them. Well, if you're a leftie, then go and start one. I detest ALL religion, and Islam and Christianity are both from the same area and root.

If you're fash too, then you're scum and just as bad as they are.
221

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 13:04:52
#233- SNP are centre left - and have been as far back as I remember. I don't think ex labour MP Jim Sillars would have joined otherwise....
222

radge dug,

10/06/2009 13:06:36
It's English Nazis like the Bnp who give credence to religious fascists like Muslim extremists.

I wonder what the Nazis stance on religion is? Do they want 'pure British paganism' again so that 'Brits' should dance scuddy around Calanais or Stonehenge!! AS Judaism, Christianiy and Islam are all Semite Abrahamic cults then they wouldn't qualify as 'British'. But, the nazis are too thick to realise this probably.
223

Davy,

Peterhead 10/06/2009 13:07:49
We the Scots, the sweaty socks.
That would be classed as a racist statement.
For hundreds of years we hated the English. How can one fight an enemy if you like them?
The papers during the gulf conflict continually referred to the French as frogs is that classed as a racist statement (nothing said)
We were being controlled and lied to by the media and the government in our hate towards Saddam
End result over 100,000 deaths for the hate of one man. Would that be racism maybe aye, maybe no it depends on how the each individual looks upon a situation. Rules cannot be made to how people think. The news papers & governments past & present have a lot to answer for regarding racism.
Throwing an egg is not the answer
I forgot to add we are also being controlled, to condone homosexual activity. Even though you may think it is morally wrong.
By the newspapers governments & green politicians
224

radge dug,

10/06/2009 13:08:39
#233 Sedov - Jimmy Reid of mixed-race and an ex trade-union leader is an SNP supporter. I guess you don't like evidence getting in the way of your bigotry too much, eh?
225

Media at One,

10/06/2009 13:09:07
At the end of the day, Britain is no longer a country of white folk. It is a diverse union consisting of 4 nations whos ethnic make up crosses all boundaries. The political landscape is changing as we speak in Britain, so to are the ethnic groups.
Within 40 years white British people will be a minority in Britain. Some people see that as a problem because they associate success with white masses and failure with black masses. You could say that such thinking is racist, but you could also be excused as being a realist, it just depends on the way you need to look at it and what conclusions you draw from Africa by comparison to the rest of the world.
However, others feel that a white minority is not a problem it just means that Westminster will have 85% black faces as opposed to 85% white faces. If that bothers you then vote BNP and if it doesnt then dont worry about the BNP.
Only the people can vote for the BNP and if the majority are not afraid of whites becomming a minority then the BNP have no chance and thus are irrelivant.
I guess it is all about identity and ancestry and where you want your nation to be in the next 50 years. These are all personal decisions, dreams and ambitions and they will differ from person to person.
I accept that Britain will be white minority in 40 years and I dont really care as long it is still BRITAIN!
226

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/06/2009 13:12:57
I wasn't surprised to see Nick Griffin surrounded by people with no necks and lots of tattoos. Unfortunately these protestors merely demonstrated why he needs them.

The anti-fascist groups have shown that they don't believe in freedom of speech. The Hope Not Hate "Not In My Name" protest shows that they don't believe in democracy either. Then there's the Unite Against Fascism idea that people should be sacked for their political beliefs.

It seems plain that there are too many people who believe that we can defeat fascism by ourselves becoming fascist. Yesterday's protest shows us the ugly end of that road.

Let's all give a firm "NO!" to both sets of fascists.
227

Nik,

Embra 10/06/2009 13:13:11
#Rulesbutnotrulers

I've never seen anyone exhibit such a singular lack of understanding of Ancient British history that you do.

It really is quite jaw-droppingly staggering.
228

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 13:14:49
#255 - at the last census in 2001 92.1 per cent of the population ticked one of the 'White' categories.
So much for being "overrun".


You said "Within 40 years white British people will be a minority in Britain." - Can you give some evidence for this, or did you just pluck it out of thin air?
229

mr broon,

mr broon 10/06/2009 13:18:15
Should the result of the next Westminster Election be a hung parliament, and the BNP gain a respectable number of English seats, will the Labour and Tory parties consider a coalition with this racist party?
230

Boswall,

10/06/2009 13:18:29
#249

They wouldn't be allowed - they're a minority party and all the other minority parties would put a parliamentary block on it.

I've met many SNP members who would love to enact an English Clearance.....at it's core the SNP is no better than the BNP.
231

senza nome,

10/06/2009 13:18:32
I wonder if the BNP's devotion to the "indigenous population" extends to Northern Ireland.Are they going to assist the repatriation of those descendants of the 17th. century Plantation and help them return to Scotland? Are they going to return the land to the native Irish from whom it was stolen? I thought not.
232

NittonLover,

Newtongrange 10/06/2009 13:20:53
#256 - You cannot be a racist and hold positions of responsibility, such as the police. You cannot exercise correct judgement when your personal views conflict with your job. Simple.

How can a manager deal faily with a member of staff from an ethnic minority if he wants to deport them?



233

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 13:23:01
I agree with Anne Widdicombe on this one - having eggs thrown at you is an occupational hazard for a politician, and I would think especially for a fascist one.

Let's not forget that for all their faux respectability these people are holocausr denying Hitler admiring white supremacist thugs.

I'm not personally in favour of throwing eggs at them but I can understand why it happens.

The BNP only achieved a 1.3% increase in its vote, that was actually rather pathetic given the current circumstances are almost designed to play into the fascists hands. What happened on the 4th June was that too many people stayed at home as a protest rather than cast their vote.

That is the lesson to be learned here. Go out and vote and then we won't let these morons in.

234

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 13:23:54
#233, Sedov.

Why do you feel you must tell lies about the SNP?

The SNP Draft Constitution, quite clearly, states the requirements for Scottish Citizenship in an Independent Scotland: it is inclusive.

Furthermore, your attitude to Scottish Independence is that of the founder of Labourism, in the UK, Gaitskill; it is, certainly, not the in line with the thinking of the great Scottish socialists like:

Hardie & Wilson (1820 Weavers' Rebellion)
Keir Hardie
John MacLean
James Connolly
Don Roberto Cunningham-Graham

To mention but a few.

If you wish to make a case for NuLabour/Labour or, indeed, any other Party...........do it with some modicum of integrity.
235

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 13:26:11
#259

"Should the result of the next Westminster Election be a hung parliament, and the BNP gain a respectable number of English seats, will the Labour and Tory parties consider a coalition with this racist party?"

No obviously...
236

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 13:30:15
256 If you can't comply with the terms and conditions of your employment what should employers do ? You can't get sacked for having political beliefs that is enshrined in law. You CAN get sacked for being unable to carry out the duties described in your job description.

That is a key difference.

People who regard non whites, non Christian customers as inferior beings cannot work in the public sector it's as imple as that.
237

Ronald Penman,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 13:30:25
Glad to see this Rabid-Right extremist getting the treatment he richly deserves.

But of course the rise of Griffiths is,in part, thanks
largely to the virulent, devisive attacks by NEW LABOUR upon the poorest sections of society.

Thanks to NEW LABOUR we have seen the very concept of asylum seekers criminalised, and those who have the temerity to flee for their very lives, now rendered destitute.

When one reflects on Browns shamefull flag-flying, phoney "patriotism", and rabid "britishness" its
clear that their is little difference between the bnp
outpourings and that of NEW LABOUR.

The final plank that has fueled support for the bnp thugs has been the filthy outpourings of those dreadfull tabloids, with monsters like NEW LABOURS David Blunkett let loose.
238

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 13:31:27
#263

"The BNP only achieved a 1.3% increase in its vote, that was actually rather pathetic given the current circumstances are almost designed to play into the fascists hands. What happened on the 4th June was that too many people stayed at home as a protest rather than cast their vote."

Quite right - the number of people voting BNP actually fell from the previous Euro election - they only got those seats because a vast number of mostly labour supporters refrained from voting this time.
239

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/06/2009 13:33:26
NittonLover asks:

"How can a manager deal faily with a member of staff from an ethnic minority if he wants to deport them?"

That's called "being a professional" by those of us who work for a living. I'm expected to do my job irrespective of my political views and I'm certain that exactly the same would be required of a member of the BNP.

This halwitted leftie idea that people should be sacked for their political views is fascist in and of itself. The irony is that they imagine employers would stop at BNP members whereas it's obvious to those of us who didn't check in our brains at the SWP recruiting office that the lefties themselves would be next up to be sacked.

It's a monumentally stupid idea supported only by fascist halfwits who want us to believe that being fascist is the only way to stop fascists.
240

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 13:34:24
258 I think the 40 years bandied about as to when Britian will no longer be a ''white'' country comes from the infamous ''rivers of blood'' speech. Which was given in 1968. Which means that we are now a non-white country ..............except that of course we ain't as it's rubbish just like virtually everything else the BNP say.
241

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 13:34:29
#260, Boswall.

Why do you feel compelled to tell lies about the SNP.

Please read the SNP Draft Constitution for an Independent Scotland.

The right to Citizenship is quite clearly stated, and is transparently inclusive.

Having been exposed in one lie, everything else you say will be considered similarly.
242

Davy,

10/06/2009 13:34:33
The people that did not vote are the people that do not trust our politicians, yet others trusted the BNP.
That alone tells our present politicians that the population of this fine country is sick of being lied to & continually let down. We are a cash cow for control freaks.
And the shops have stopped selling eggs whatever next.
243

Silence of the Yams,

10/06/2009 13:35:02
266. Where in bnp manifesto does it state "non whites are inferior to whites?" Get your facts straight. Lies like that are what this rentamob and their media want the public to beleive. The public sector is a den of leftist militancy sitting back on fat pensions they don't deserve.
244

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 13:37:48
269 Roddy Slorach was sacked for being an ''SWP leftie''. So you are right anyone with extreme political views is liable to have their employment terminated. That's why the public sector don't tend to employ them. There is no discrimination involved here. People with their views cannot discharge their duties fairly and anyway the rest of the workforce would refuse to work with them.
245

Media at One,

10/06/2009 13:39:28
The world is a different place and we need get used to multi ethnic societies.
Continued failure in Black Africa means that many millions of Africans will arrive in Britain and other parts of Europe in the years to follow.
That is life, times change and so do countries.
246

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 13:40:38
273 It doesn't say in the manifesto that would be illegal. But anyone familiar with the history of your party knows exactly what they are about.
247

Mèths,

10/06/2009 13:42:01
Media 1

"I accept that Britain will be white minority in 40 years "

Eh? Please let us in on this mind-boggling statement. Did you work it out from the latest census figure then use some fancy algorithm then get another expert (one of yer pals down the pub) to verify & extrapolate?
248

Media at One,

10/06/2009 13:42:37
#270 Observer

You refute that Britain could be a nation with a white minority in 40 years. And that is perfectly fine, but what if you REALLY believed it could be?
It appears by your response that you don't vote BNP because you see the white majority always being in power.
Interesting!
249

Media at One,

10/06/2009 13:46:11
Meths

No reason to work it out, what you do is you put it out there and then you look to see who comes back with a response saying "Media you are wrong, but even if you are right, so what, we are all British both Black and White so it would'nt matter"
So far, nobody has responded as such!
Interesting!
250

,

10/06/2009 13:47:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
251

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 13:47:43
278 No I just think it's very funny Media that the BNP still use Powell's speech - given more than 40 years ago (he thought actually that the ''tipping point'' when the ''immigrant'' population would become the majority was 1985). He was talking about Afro-Caribbeans. The BNP use the same scare tactics about muslims, only of course they are going to make us all live under Sharia law as well. Decades ago they said the same in Scotland about the Irish, and Catholicism. It's the same song they sing all the time regardless of the circumstances - and guess what ? We have not been ''swamped by an alien culture'' yet.

So it's rubbish isn't it. There are constant movements of people there has always been immigration it's a natural cycle.
252

The Radical Apathist,

10/06/2009 13:47:52
I have not voted in thirty years as I despise all politicians-proven self-serving liars. Labour, Tories Liberals and the SNP-an irrelevance -a 29% on a 30% turn-out is not a mandate for independence and increasingly a party who will say anything to anybody to try and garner support.
Although not a BNP supporter and a cursory look around the city centre at the number of skan-ky junkies will quickly dispel any notion of the myth of white superiority I nevertheless did find a resonance in the BNP leaders remarks about how the country has been betrayed by the political class.
Why were we never given a vote on Europe-aka The Fourth Reich-like eg Eire? Our little island is swamped by bogus asylum seekers, economic migrants an alien radical muslim element and a generation our own own young who are either NEETS or unable to find meaningful employment on graduation.
Also governed by a non-elected PM who is desperately clinging on to power, ID cards on the way, record nos of police-funny they were nowhere to be seen outside Parliament yesterday??? All sounds like something out of an Orwellian Big Brother nightmarish society.

Be afraid people this is only the beginning-people have had enough of being taken for granted.
253

Arthur G,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 13:56:30
Ah! The old Fascist bogeyman is resurrected once more, this time by "Gone" Brown and his filthy, corrupt party (you know the ones who want ID cards; more surveillance and ever more restrictions on our personal freedoms, to such an extent that I feel less free than I did when I visited Erich Honecker's East Germany in the 70s).

The best way to deal with the BNP (which is, incidentally, a perfectly legal political party) is to let its followers disseminate their views. That way, they will expose themselves for the bigots they are.

AS for the UAF, I have had dealings with this organisation and many of its members, before and in my experience, tolerance of the democratic process is not high on the agenda o f its members.

In a genuinely democratic society, one must be tolerant of the views of others no matter how offensive they are to our own way of thinking.

http://www.stophonourkillings.com/
254

Sedov,

10/06/2009 13:57:37
#268 Yeah - A good post. It is important to keep the rise of the far right into perspective, whilst not being complacent of course.

The main thing as I have said over the past few weeks is that people are now starting to question the way our world is going and what is needed to change things - and although there was a move to the right in the euro elections, this was mainly because the "left" parties failed miserbely in offering a viable alternative, instead they have tried to make capitalism more acceptable and they paid for it.

The pro left-nationalist SSP only got 1% of the vote - the lesson being if people want nationalism they will vote for the SNP. Sadly the SSP will continue to hide their heads in the sand with their nonsensical stand on - nationalism first, socialism second-and they claim to be internationalists!

255

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 14:00:34
#283

"In a genuinely democratic society, one must be tolerant of the views of others no matter how offensive they are to our own way of thinking."

So I assume you would also agree that radical muslim clerics should be allowed to air their views too?

Of course freedom of speech should be allowed - it would show up the BNP for what they are.

However, offensive views and opinions should not be allowed when they cross the line and become incitements to hate, or attack others.
256

The Radical Apathist,

10/06/2009 14:00:52
This is not solely about race as the problem is also about the numbers of "white Christians" coming from Europe. As anyone who has lived in Muslim countries will attest multi-culturalism is a fallacy-a house divided cannot stand.

Sixty million plus is too much for our little island -NHS, pensions and social services etc increasingly cannot cope as will become clearer as public sector is cut-back to finance the deficit. The break-down in society and law and order -knifings etc and lack of respect for authority needs to be tackled.

The BNP has some good ideas and unlike the mainstream parties they are not afraid of political correctness but really they are still only scratching the surface.
257

Silence of the Yams,

10/06/2009 14:01:38
#282. Let's not forget the odious Human Rights Act and Blair's race laws that have helped turn indigenous whites into veritable red quirrels. These laws should be repealed and the Human Right (aka Terrorist and Immigrants Charter) aboloished.
258

Fairfax,

10/06/2009 14:02:24
Observer (281): "No I just think it's very funny Media that the BNP still use Powell's speech - given more than 40 years ago (he thought actually that the ''tipping point'' when the ''immigrant'' population would become the majority was 1985)."

In fact his estimate was that it would between 5 and 7 million in 2000, which was a fairly good approximation in retrospect.

"So it's rubbish isn't it. There are constant movements of people there has always been immigration it's a natural cycle."

Immigration has certainly always occurred to some extent, but it is important to remember the great difference in scale between, say, immigration before the 20th century and now. In the course of some 50 years, England has moved from homogeneity to an approximate population of between 12% to 15% ethnic minority. Further, some 20% of births are now to recent immigrants in England, whilst the majority of school-age children in London are ethnic minority. Since the birth-rate of many immigrant groups is quite high, it would be plausible for England to reach, say, 30% ethnic minority in roughly 20 years.

Whether one approves of modern mass-immigration or not, these are substantial rapid changes. The only comparable demographic changes in recorded history would be the population movements following the demise of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century. What would Scotland's reaction be to such demographic change?
259

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 14:08:47
Silence of the Yams:

Perhaps you could explain your utterly absurb comment on one of the other articles that: "70% of the British public (i.e 90% of whites) agree with all the bnp's policies."

Where on earth did you get such a ridiculous figure from? Did you actually see that in an opinion poll, or did you conjure it up from the back of your clearly troubled mind?

You are obviously living in some kind of fantasy world if you think that 90% of white people in Britain agree with all or indeed any, of the BNP's policies.
260

Fairfax,

10/06/2009 14:11:41
Meths (277): ""I accept that Britain will be white minority in 40 years "
Eh? Please let us in on this mind-boggling statement."

All extrapolation is dubious, but this is not wildly at odds with the Office of National Statistics estimates. The key point is that ethnic minorities have a higher birth-rate than the white population, and tend to have children in their 20s. Given that between 1-in-4 and 1-in-5 births are to ethnic minority mothers, it is plausible that England (not Scotland) will attain, say, a 30% ethnic minority population in some 20 years. If the fertility rate of this population remained unchanged, then ethnic minorities could indeed reach a majority in England within 40 years. Obviously one criticism of such an estimate would be that fertility rates might decrease substantially.
261

sam the god,

10/06/2009 14:13:38
# 229 canker and Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, and the North Korean leader were not known for their violence ? Aye right
262

Silence of the Yams,

10/06/2009 14:13:41
#289. Google it mate, and you'll see I'm telling truth. The problem is as soon as the questioner is informed those are the bnp's manifesto policies they backtrack. Media conditioning and leftist activism has ensured the bnp are viewed as SS Auchwitz camp gaurds.
263

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 14:18:48
#292

"Google it mate, and you'll see I'm telling truth. The problem is as soon as the questioner is informed those are the bnp's manifesto policies they backtrack."

Are you seriously suggesting that 90% of white people in the UK think that all non-whites should be removed from the UK?

And that the only reason 90% of white people don't vote BNP is because of 'media conditioning'?

You are clearly living in some kind of fantasy world.
264

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 14:21:15
#292

And please don't call me 'mate' - I have no wish to be considered the 'mate' of racist scum like you.

'Media conditioning' and 'leftist activism' does not make people regard the BNP as racist - they are seen as racist because they ARE racist.
265

Silence of the Yams,

10/06/2009 14:26:00
#293. I'm telling you the truth, that's all: The vast majority of UK whites agreed with the bnp until they found out it was the bnp. That tends to be the case with all polling of views on mass immigration, terrorism, EU, crime, Neds, etc etc..
266

Silence of the Yams,

10/06/2009 14:28:02
294. Mindless insults never far away, eh?
267

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 14:33:37
#295

"I'm telling you the truth, that's all: The vast majority of UK whites agreed with the bnp until they found out it was the bnp."

It may be the 'truth' in your warped racist mind but it is clearly not the truth in the real world.

90% of white British people do not believe that all non-whites should be removed from the UK - unless you have definitive proof of this (and not 'look it up on Google') you are talking complete and utter garbage.

As for calling you 'racist scum' that is not insulting. You are racist and consequently that also makes you scum, so its not insulting to call you such.
268

Davy,

10/06/2009 14:34:18
Silence of the Yams
Regardless they now have proper political clout, not a lot. Which in the long term maybe a good thing? Reason being the presents of the BNP will be a constant reminder to the other parties, that the UK voters have had enough of their failures. I dread to think what is going to happen if that other mob, the Tory’s gets into power. We might have full independence by that time. That also could turn into a bag of worms. You just can’t trust any of them. Greedy bunch of lying, thieving, control freaks that is why people don’t vote.
No trust
269

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/06/2009 14:35:05
#12: Anthony, you're absolutely correct. Unite Against Fascism are themselves fascist. They have a target minority for whom they want to remove freedom of speech, the right to stand for election, and the ability to work.

They're socialists a good deal more than halfway along the road to national socialism.
270

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 14:37:54
#298

"Which in the long term maybe a good thing?"

No it is not a good thing - the presence of a racist party is never a good thing.

"You just can’t trust any of them"

You don't trust the other political parties but you do trust a party of racists led by a convicted criminal who has lied about the holocaust?

Strange...
271

Arthur G,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 14:40:43
Yeah1 #285


>>>"So I assume you would also agree that radical muslim clerics should be allowed to air their views too?"

Yes and they often are which is where they expose themselves for the intolerant, fanatical bigots that they truly are.

"...Of course freedom of speech should be allowed - it would show up the BNP for what they are..."

Yes, I agree, and that is what I was advocating in my post

"...However, offensive views and opinions should not be allowed when they cross the line and become incitements to hate, or attack others..."

So freedom of speech is valid but only once it has been through a filter and acceptable to some omniscient arbiter, someone like you, presumably, who can make the olympian decision of what is good for us and what is not?

Hmmm, sounds a little like Fascism to me.

The facts are that you either let everyone hold his or her own point of view, no matter how loony or offensive, or you control what can or cannot be said based upon the personal prejudices of those in power and their lawmakers.

If it is the latter then we are not (as most of us already believe) living in a democracy.

http://www.stophonourkillings.com/
272

,

10/06/2009 14:41:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
273

Sedov,

10/06/2009 14:41:13
The only way you can deal with the BNP is to acquaint their heads with pavement.

Democracy? - just visit Auswich or Belsen where my dad was one of the first Allied liberators -a scene which haunted him all of his life.

Lest we forget.
274

Davy,

Peterhead 10/06/2009 14:46:38
300 Yeah1
Don’t B an A@se I don’t trust any mps. So don’t do the politician on me, by twisting words to suit your own agenda. It makes you sound ever so small minded
275

,

10/06/2009 14:57:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
276

Silence of the Yams,

10/06/2009 15:01:51
303. Strange that the strongest anti semites are the far left that burn Israeli flag at every opp.
277

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 15:06:46
#304

"So don’t do the politician on me, by twisting words to suit your own agenda"

What words have I twisted?

You said that that election of BNP MEPs "maybe a good thing" - the election of a racist party is NEVER a good thing.

I can understand you want the politicians to learn from their failures and realise that the British people do not trust them, but the election of a racist party (whose leaders are not exactly trustworthy themselves) is not the way to do this.
278

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 15:10:00
#306

Managed to find proof for your ridiculous assertion that 90% of white British agree with all the BNP's policies yet?

Or are you going to admit that it was a figment of your warped racist mind?
279

,

10/06/2009 15:17:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
280

Sedov,

10/06/2009 15:28:35
#306 a fair point.

Which is why I do not agree with the two state system between Arabs and Jews put forward by the far left -one state, one system for both peoples under a socialist planned society.

Don't you agree?

281

huggs,

10/06/2009 15:31:11
The biggest racists in this country are not the whites

Can you imagine if a hate cleric was giving a speech and had eggs thrown at him would the police have come out of hiding to arrest any of the egg throwers?

You bet diamonds they would have
Too many do gooders are ruining this country and BNP will only get stronger
282

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 15:31:53
It is rather amusing to note the unconscious irony all those butcher’s apron waving British nationalists on here telling us how much they dislike the BNP.

They obviously do not realise that in Scotland they are regarded as being of the same ilk.
283

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 15:34:56
#282, Apathist.

You are 100% correct, the Union/the political class has not served us well.

Unfortunately, going down the authoritarian route is not the correct way.

NuLabour is hell-bent on this road, but not on grounds of creed or race; they are very dangerous, and, maybe, more dangerous than the BNP.

The BNP is, obviously, an exclusive Party, whereas, NuLabour is seen to be mainstream. More people are "prepared" to accept NuLabour's take.

The BNP are lead by an odious group of people who have no interest in the ordinary people; their leadership are self-serving demagogues who believe in their "right to rule".

Give, just, one example of BNP policy that cannot be addressed by Parliament without recourse to exclusion.
284

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 15:36:31
#313.

Correction: "lead" should be "led".
285

Mèths,

10/06/2009 15:38:25
"A COUNCILLOR with the racist British National Party - who was elected on a platform of family values - has deserted his wife and child to set up home with a 21-year-old colleague."
286

Nevsky;,

Moscow 10/06/2009 15:39:29
1,000,000 English people voted for the BNP. Let them speak...it is clearly what the English voters wanted!

Not a union i want to be part of though!
287

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 15:39:29
282 The Radical Apathist,

“I have not voted in thirty years”



Your views are therefore of no relevance.
288

Stan Butler,

10/06/2009 15:40:00
#312 dunedin bully wee 1877,


You're the nationalist.

Those who oppose nationalism are not nationalists.

289

Mèths,

10/06/2009 15:41:17
"The leaflets the British National Party used for the European elections.

They feature a doctor, a trio of builders and an elderly couple, proudly backing Britain and echoing BNP policies.

Far from living up to the BNP slogan of 'British Jobs for British Workers', the 'voters' have been revealed to be Americans and Italians. Naturally they never uttered the words they are supposed to have said."

Mailonline
290

Mèths,

10/06/2009 15:42:12
Many of the pictures on the BNP leaflet are 'stock images', featuring unknowing actors and models.
291

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 15:47:05
318 Stan Butler

Have a look at the BNP web-site.

They hate us with a vengeance although they kinda tolerate your lot, because you wave the same butcher’s apron as they do,

I am rather proud of that.
292

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 15:48:42
#311

"Too many do gooders are ruining this country and BNP will only get stronger"

Perhaps then you could explain why the number of those voting BNP in the Euros this time actually DROPPED from the previous Euro elections?

That doesn't suggest they are 'getting stronger' does it?

The more their racist, bigoted policies are the exposed the weaker they will become.
293

Sedov,

10/06/2009 15:52:02
#316 Nevsky - waken up!

This is roughly what the regional social democratic governments of the northern German states in the 1930's said in response to the rise in support for hitler in Bavaria.

-" were not bothered as the national socialist party has no influence her and if the Bavarians want to vote for them, then thats their business" - not far from your statement EH?

Just look at the BNP website and you will see the number of Scots who are supporting the BNP so stop being so smug.
294

huggs,

10/06/2009 15:53:25
322 So they have won seats for the first time does that suggest a weakness to you?

You are very fond of the word racist arent you
295

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 15:56:07
#290, Fairfax.

What nonsense!!!

At the beginning of the 20th.C, there were cries about the Irish Catholics overrunning the country, for the reasons you provide. Did it happen?

Is the UK a Catholic country?

40yrs. ago, Enoch Powell made the same argument about "Blacks".

Has it happened?

Fear-mongering is the province of the Authoritarian; it is their only route to power.

Fortunately, now we have the means to debunk the fear. The duty, now, is to help people to become more politically aware.
296

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 15:59:36
#292, Silence of the Yams.

Asserting lies does not make them the truth.

I believe that most people have learned this since the 1930s.
297

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/06/2009 16:03:12
101 KampungHighlander wisely informs: "You either allow the most abhorrent to speak or you end up on the slippery slope that leads to all of us having our freedom of speech curtailed"

It's a bit worse than that. The very second the BNP aren't permitted to speak, then freedom of speech for us all vanishes and is replaced by permission to speak if what we say is agreeable.
298

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 16:03:23
323 Sedov

They had 6 candidates in Scotland at the Euro elections and achieved 2.5% of the vote here.
They are an irrelevance.
299

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 16:03:25
#298, Davy.

You are not a very convincing BNP apologist, are you?
300

Pavla,

Irvine 10/06/2009 16:04:30
I think many posters of opposing opinions have a point eg. democratic right to free speech etc. and the other side the vile racist and selective eugenics of the BNP.
However we are dealing here with an organisation that does itself not uphold democratic principles and would readily intimidate and disrupt other parties as it has done many times before.They have very well organised sub groups who given half a chance would put the boot into your granny and they need to be faced down.My mother yesterday spoke of the wonderful people of every background who in Cable Street gave the blackshirts of the 30s the message that their fascist ideology was abhorrent to every decent person.As the Czech President said Hitler didn't start with concentration camps.
301

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/06/2009 16:08:13
Selgovae reckons: "On a more serious note, while I have no respect for those who throw eggs or conduct other mob-like behaviour , I think the BNP should be continually harassed and challenged about their policies"

I absolutely agree. However, despite the stupidity and ignorance of the BNP, Unite Against Fascism., in choosing violence, have presumably concluded that they're not intellectually up to the job of debating them.

I suggest they leave the job to those who, in a battle of wits, are not disarmed.
302

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 16:09:37
#324

"So they have won seats for the first time does that suggest a weakness to you?"

They won the seats because vast numbers of former labour voters did not vote this time - not because they got any more votes themselves.

The BNP vote in Yorkshire for example actually dropped by about 6,000 - the only reason they got a seat there was because a lot of people didn't vote labour this time NOT because a lot more people voted for them.
303

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 16:11:59
Fairfax you ignore completely the basic point of my post which was that Powell was talking about BLACK people - Afro Caribbeans. He stated that specifically and talked about the States. It didn't come true. The black man does not have the whip hand over the white man but the same phraeseology is being used now about muslims.

Exactly the same.

And a lot of what people say about muslims is eerily reminiscent of what the Nazis said about the Jews.

Do you start to see a pattern here ?
304

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 16:13:11
#328

"They had 6 candidates in Scotland at the Euro elections and achieved 2.5% of the vote here."

Firstly EVERY party at the Euros had only 6 candidates in Scotland - there are only 6 seats!

Secondly you are correct to a certain extent - the BNP are far weaker in Scotland than in places like Yorkshire and NW England - however it is not a time to be complacent, over 27,000 people in Scotland still voted for a racist, whites only party - this is not something to be proud of.
305

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 16:15:08
I have read a great deal, on this thread, about the right to free speech, would any BNP member/supporter/fellow-traveller like to answer the following (I would prefer the answer from a spokesperson).

What is the response to a "Black" person who decares his/her "Britishness?

Or the Muslim?

Or the Roman Catholic? (Black, white or polka-dot).

Or the "Black" descendants of King Stephen who claim an "indigenous" right to be "Brittish"?

Enough for now. Please do answer.
306

Sedov,

10/06/2009 16:15:18
#328 Bully wee - I did make the point that we have to take a proportional view to the rise of the BNP

- but nevertheless, in the working class, ex coal field heartlands of Yorkshire which has many of the attributes of lowland Scotland, the BNP vote 10 years ago was 1.5%. 5 years ago it was 6% and this time it was 10% all because of the failures of Labour of course.

Also the euro elections will release a lot of money for the BNP - money which they did not have before the recent elections.

The modest policies and programme of the SNP are very similar to New Labour -so I doubt if even an independent Scotland under the tartan tories would eradicate the threat of the BNP -be warned!
307

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 16:15:27
291...What are you bleating on about now man...away you go and fondle your rifle...or polish your helmet...there's a good lad...
308

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 16:18:39
237..And what are you on about?...I made no mention of egg-throwing..merely pointed out that I do not have to have an "Agenda" because I support gay and lesbian rights...

309

huggs,

10/06/2009 16:19:47
324 see 336 still think their weaker?
310

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 16:20:43
334 Yeah1,

I am aware of the number of seats contested in Scotland.

I am also aware that the number of votes obtained by the fascist parties (BNP & UKIP) declined by 13,267 from the last Euro election.

That rather puts your figure into some perspective.
311

Fairfax,

10/06/2009 16:23:02
Frank McBride (290): "#290, Fairfax.

What nonsense!!!

At the beginning of the 20th.C, there were cries about the Irish Catholics overrunning the country, for the reasons you provide. Did it happen?"

Obviously not. As I also pointed out in the final sentence of 290: "Obviously one criticism of such an estimate would be that fertility rates might decrease substantially." Such decrease might also occur amongst ethnic minorities in Britain. Consider, however, that some 20% of all children in England are born to ethnic minorities. The numbers involved are therefore much larger than the Irish population, and their rate of growth is larger.

"40yrs. ago, Enoch Powell made the same argument about "Blacks"."

In fact he suggested that it would reach some 10% of the population by 2000, which was approimately correct.

"Fear-mongering is the province of the Authoritarian; it is their only route to power."

I too despise fear-mongering and the BNP, but it is irrational to consider all numerical discussion, and extrapolation, of immigration numbers as fear-mongering. After all, would you describe Labour MP Frank Field as a fear-mongerer? It is precisely this wish to describe all criticism of immigration as racist which has led to the BNP's success in some white working class areas of England.

312

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 16:25:53
#339

"324 see 336 still think their weaker"

Er...yes. As I have already pointed out the number of BNP voters in Yorkshire this time actually DROPPED by about 6,000.

They did not win the Yorkshire seat because they got thousands more voters - they won it because thousands of former labour supporters did not vote this time.

It is probably a bit too complicated for an obviously unintelligent racist like you to understand, but when a party gets less voters in an area than it previously did, that generally suggests it is getting weaker in that area.
313

Sedov,

10/06/2009 16:25:55
#331 Poo I look forward to hearing your intelligent and forceful arguments against the BNP which you can put in person at their next public meeting, open to all people who believe in free speech.

The BNP will of course, listen attentively to your arguments and give you the neccessary time for you to tell them that they are just a bunch of racist thugs posing as democrats and friends of the British worker.

PS take some burly friends with you because you will neeed them.
314

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 16:28:30
#323, Sedov.

I don't normally agree with you, but on this point you are 100% correct.

Because the BNP is, at the moment, insignificant in Scotland, it is no reason to dismiss them.

Hitler never won an election in Germany, but he did come to power.

Either we learn from history, or we're destined to repeat it.
315

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 16:29:39
336 Sedov

It is unclear from your post who you are describing as the “tartan tories”, New Labour or the SNP?

Irrespective of which, with no discernible threat from the far-right in Scotland they should be treated only with scorn and disdain.
316

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 16:32:03
#340

"I am also aware that the number of votes obtained by the fascist parties (BNP & UKIP) declined by 13,267 from the last Euro election.

That rather puts your figure into some perspective."

The number of BNP voters in Scotland increased by almost 8,000 (or 0.8%) at this election - that rather puts your figures into some perspective doesn't it?

Now of course that is nowhere near as many BNP voters as in other parts of the UK but it is still worrying that 27,000 Scots voted for a racist, whites only party wouldn't you agree?

317

Fairfax,

10/06/2009 16:32:48
Observer (333): "Fairfax you ignore completely the basic point of my post which was that Powell was talking about BLACK people - Afro Caribbeans."

I don't believe I have ignored your point, but I certainly wished to use your point to make other demographic statements. He certainly was considering black immigration, and his extrapolation was therefore incorrect for black immigration. His extrapolation for the total immigrant population in 2000 was roughly correct. It is not clear to me that Powell believed immigration would continue to be restricted to Caribbean blacks, however, since he opposed the citizenship extension to the entire New Commonwealth. In other words, he may have taken the view that New Commonwealth immigration would continue, without further legislation. In that he was correct.

"And a lot of what people say about muslims is eerily reminiscent of what the Nazis said about the Jews.

Do you start to see a pattern here ?"

I certainly see a disturbing pattern of increasing racism in all groups, including ethnic minorities. However, nothing resembles Nazi antisemitism more than the statement of Muslim extremists. I would view Muslim antisemitic statements and acts as far more worrying than general anti-Muslim feeling, although the latter also worries me.
318

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 16:39:29
346 Yeah1,

The actual increase was 7,747, which was more than compensated for by the decrease in their UKIP bedfellow’s vote of 21,014.

An overall decrease in the fascist vote of 13.506% from the last Euro election.

You want to bandy statistics?
Well, you are out of your depth.
319

huggs,

10/06/2009 16:44:18
342 Yeah 1
There you go again calling me a racist
You have no grounds for that i have not made one racist remark.
Everytime someone answers you they are called racist how many times have you used that today?
Ok 6000 people did not vote do you have a crystal ball the majority might have voted BNP you never know.

You will be one of the pc correct idiots who have seen little of the real world whilst hangin about mummys apron strings i bet.
You will also condone the cowards who threw the eggs and hit a woman with a placard yesterday.
Very tough in numbers or behind a keyboard
320

Anthony,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 16:48:03
348) - there are some sweeping assumptions being made behind those statistics though, which do not seem to be based on any evidence evidence. It appears to be assumed that the BNP vote was not advesely affected by the poor turn-out.

Nor am I sure about your method of arguing that since support for one party went down, you can deduct that from the overall support of another party, and suggest that this means they both did poorly. Never seen that approach used...well ever really. I don't think that would be accepted by any statistical method.
321

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 16:48:51
#341, Fairfax.

The birth-rate of the immigrant Irish population, early 20thC, was 2to 3 times that of the Brits, but they have not overwhelmed the "indigenous" population.

Enoch Powell was an architypical Imperialist, and his vision should be seen as such.

Numerical extrapolation, and discussion, of population trends tend to be fatuous; they are meaningless other than in numbers. Nothing can be assumed as to the outlook or behaviour of the people extrapolated.

The BNP leadership has a very different agenda from, IMO, the majority of their voters.

The BNP leadership is fascist, using the tactics of fear and grievance to achieve their aim of authoritarian control. Anyone who gives ANY credence to their policy (lies) is as guilty as they are.

They have one aim: the subjugation of the people.......white, black, brown or polka-dot.
322

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 16:53:37
#350, Anthony.

Are you still saying that you are not a BNP apologist/member?
323

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 16:56:35
I would be grateful if ANY BNP apologist/member would reply to my questions, previously posted on this thread, with regards to the policies and beliefs.

Or, are you too afraid to state your policies OPENLY?
324

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 17:03:42
350 Anthony

Happy to explain.

I aggregated the fascist vote BNP & UKIP) in 2009 and compared it to the same vote in 2004.

There was indeed a reduction in turnout between those two years, from 30.74% to 28.6%.

This could of course account for a reduction in the fascist vote of 2.14%.

However, in reality their actual votes dropped from 98,229 to 84,962, a drop of 13,267 which represents a reduction of 13.51%.
325

Stan Butler,

10/06/2009 17:03:45
#321 dunedin bully wee 1877,

'They hate us with a vengeance although they kinda tolerate your lot, because you wave the same butcher’s apron as they do'


They probably hate you because they regard you as diverting potential recruits away from them. A sectarian hatred if you like.

Extreme nationalists in Scotland have the choice of supporting Scottish nationalism or British nationalism.

I'm a socialist. I believe that what unites people, what decides where people's primary interests lie, is class.

For the BNP what unites people is the colour of their skin.

For the SNP what unites people is their nationality.

As far as I'm concerned both the BNP and the SNP are wrong in their analysis and wrong in the solutions they offer.
326

Fairfax,

10/06/2009 17:04:25
frank mcbride (351): "#341, Fairfax.

The birth-rate of the immigrant Irish population, early 20thC, was 2to 3 times that of the Brits, but they have not overwhelmed the "indigenous" population."

As I pointed out, their birthrate rapidly declined. As I also pointed out this might occur for current ethnic minorities. The difference, however, is already substantial, albeit much less visible in Scotland. To reiterate, the ethnic minority school-age population of London is now the majority, whilst England now has more ethnic minority children than Scotland has children -- the total ethnic minority population of England now exceeds the population of Scotland. These are substantial changes, and their discussion is necessary.

"Numerical extrapolation, and discussion, of population trends tend to be fatuous; they are meaningless other than in numbers."

Extrapolation is certainly often dubious, or simply incorrect. It is, however, a necessary evil if we are to make future plans.

"The BNP leadership is fascist, using the tactics of fear and grievance to achieve their aim of authoritarian control. Anyone who gives ANY credence to their policy (lies) is as guilty as they are."

I too revile the BNP. However, it is precisely the consequent taboo status of immigration criticism which has led to some white working class voters supporting this execrable party. We have now reached a stage where rational discussion of future immigration numbers is necessary, because the alternative will be a further rise in parties such as the BNP. We see this in many countries of the EU, most notably in Holland, Belgium and in France, for which the right-wing vote far exceeds the BNP percentage in the UK.

327

Yeah1,

10/06/2009 17:04:28
#348

"The actual increase was 7,747, which was more than compensated for by the decrease in their UKIP bedfellow’s vote of 21,014."

Er...yes I said an increase of almost 8,000 - which is what 7,747 is.

I am discussing the BNP, UKIP are a completely different party and are obviously not fascists like the BNP.

You may not be concerned that over 27,000 Scots voted for the BNP, an increase of almost 8,000 from the last Euros but I certainly am.

I would suggest it is you who is 'out of your depth' if you are unable to distinguish between a racist, whites only party and a conservative, eurosceptic one.
328

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 17:04:55
Excellent Fairfax. You concede that Powell's predictions were wrong.

I am not averse to a sensible discussion around immigration.

But we need to do that nased on the assumption of reason.

The BNP are not reasonable.
329

Stan Butler,

10/06/2009 17:05:31


Please stop describing UKIP as fascist.

They're right wing and zenophobic but they're not fascists.
330

Fairfax,

10/06/2009 17:07:35
Observer (358): "Excellent Fairfax. You concede that Powell's predictions were wrong."

Certainly. However, as I also pointed out, they were not far wrong.

"I am not averse to a sensible discussion around immigration.

But we need to do that nased on the assumption of reason.

The BNP are not reasonable."

Agreed.
331

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/06/2009 17:13:11
Sedov challenges: "Poo I look forward to hearing your intelligent and forceful arguments against the BNP which you can put in person at their next public meeting, open to all people who believe in free speech"

I'm a veteran at arguing with people. Just let me know when these racist halfwits are in town and I'll not only argue with them, I'll warm up on the UaF idiots protesting outside.
332

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 17:15:06
359 Stan Butler

Revise your reading of the writings of Karl Marx, assuming you have ever read any in the first place, and come back with your definition of how you would define yourself.
333

Observer,,

10/06/2009 17:19:28
347 Fairfax the majority of victims of racist crime in Scotland are Asians. The numbers sky rocketed since 9/11, despite the fact that this country is not home to extremist clerics.

That is a very worrying thing and is I believe based on the kind of propoganda that the BNP peddle.

It gets results.

Of course there was an increase in anti-semitism after the attack on Gaza. That is equally bad and should be condemned.
334

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/06/2009 17:22:44
Dunedin evinces: "we should employ all the other weapons at our disposal, such as; reason, logic, numeracy, literacy, scorn, ridicule and satire.
Above all, we should be maximising our efforts to defeat these sinister and despicable morons at the ballot box."

Which I tried to do. However each anti-fascist group I tried to make common cause with and work through ultimately sickened me by their anti-democratic and anti freedom of speech policies. I will not become a fascist in order to defeat fascism.

The problem is I suspect that these groups are riven with SWP halfwits and their "no platform" form of fascism.
335

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 17:27:57
359 Stan Butler

Where upon the political spectrum would you place the following:

UKIP Policies

We will freeze immigration for five years, speed up deportation of up to a million illegal immigrants by tripling the numbers engaged in deportations,

We will give people the vote on policing priorities, go back to proper beat policing and scrap the Human Rights Act. We will have sentences that mean what they say.

We will support our armed forces with more spending on equipment, military homes and medical care. We will save our threatened warships and add 25,000 more troops.

We will say No to green taxes and wind farms. To avert a major energy crisis, we will go for new nuclear power plants on the same existing site facilities

We will be fair to England, with an English Parliament of English MPs at Westminster. We will replace assembly members like MSPs with MPs.
336

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 17:31:48
364 ''riven with SWP halfwits''

How many SWP halfwits do you think there are ? You seem to think there are a lot more of 'em around than I do.

I am not altogether sure that you are being realistic. The BNP do not fight with the Marquess of Queensberry rules.

I am not in favour of limiting free speech myself, however that does not include giving people jobs they are by their beliefs incapable of doing, or of according them the respect I would a mainstream political opponent.

They are not worthy of respect.

337

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 17:46:08
#36, Observer.

Sorry Obs, but you#re in danger of being drawn into the subtle web that the BNP is weaving.

They want to be "marginalied"; they want to be the "victims".

This is the most powerful weapon!!! The can then, legitimately, say we are being denied free speech........we are being denied our rights.......where is democracy.

The BNP is an odious organisation, but we must not allow them to blind-side us.

Confront them up front, show their leadership up for the intollerant, authoritarian racists they are. There is plenty of material available.
338

Anthony,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 17:46:36
I think what we are seeing is very interesting. As the entire socialist movement have abandoned the working class in this country, for abstract Hegelian notions of internationalism, the BNP appear to have stepped into the void, and are championing the poor in material terms. What socialists seem to have missed, is that immigration is being used as a tool by the ruling classes. They get cheap nannies, downward pressure on wages and loads more advantages. The poor get dumped with all the social disadvantages.

Socialists have made a bad call, and are on the wrong side of this issue. If Marx was alive, he would vote BNP.
339

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 17:47:06
#367.

Was addressed to #366, Observer.
340

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 17:49:47
368 Anthony

“If Marx was alive, he would vote BNP”

He is, and he doesn’t.
341

Fairfax,

10/06/2009 17:50:38
Observer (363): "347 Fairfax the majority of victims of racist crime in Scotland are Asians. The numbers sky rocketed since 9/11, despite the fact that this country is not home to extremist clerics.

That is a very worrying thing and is I believe based on the kind of propoganda that the BNP peddle."

The BNP does not seem to be particularly popular in Scotland. I suspect you're seeing the unpleasant reaction of some Scots to a rapid increase in immigration, from what had previously been a low base compared to England.

"Of course there was an increase in anti-semitism after the attack on Gaza. That is equally bad and should be condemned. "

Muslim antisemitism predates Gaza. Here is a particularly unpleasant case from 2005, described by Nick Cohen in the Observer:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/apr/17/religion.otherparties
342

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 17:51:37
#368, Anthony.

You have said that you are not a BNP member/fellow-traveller, do you, still, stand by that statement?

This is the second time I've asked you to confirm your BNP affiliation. Are you unable to confirm?
343

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 17:52:51
''If Marx was alive, he would vote BNP.''

Oh well done Anthony you get the prize for most ridiculous comment posted all day.


Frank - BNP members and activists rule themselves out of certain positions within society. That is their choice. They have the option of joining the Tories or the UKIP if they are anti-immigration these parties are legitimate. But no public sector employer could reasonably employ someone who holds their views. The state is required by law to treat all their service users and providers equally.

No employer could trust the fascisti to do that.
344

Anthony,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 17:54:15
What, Marx alive? Seeing his supposed exponents being used to break up meetings of a pro-working class party, on the instructions of the three mainsteam parties? Sounds like socialists have degenerated into the new lumpant prolatariat to me! The irregular boot troops of the right.
345

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 17:58:50
371 Fairfax Nick Cohen supported the Iraq War. He does not see any relationship between the treatment of the Palestinians and the Iraqis, the presence of US troops in Saudi, and the historical actions of the ''West'' in Arabia with the rise of Islamism, to me the two things are completely interlinked. Islamism is in my eyes a reactionary movement, I don't think Nick Cohen agrees with that.

But that is an argument for another thread.
346

Davy,

10/06/2009 18:01:18
frank mcbride
Frankie baby have you ever been to Hollywood, the eggs are superb & they don’t have a BNP. Or is it a B & B
Support or not to support that is the question, or is it to be or not to be, is the other one.
Maybe, be is spelt with 2 e’s that is another question
Stay cool, stay silkay that is the way forward. In the mean time Rome burns.
347

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 18:02:44
#368, Anthony.

A sweeping generalisation that is meaningless.

The SNP is introducing policies that are supportive of the working class, mostly based on a universal right. You seem to be unaware that this is a socialist principle.

Unfortunately, for you and your BNP fellow-travellers, the idea of basic human rights, for the working class is based on ethnicity.

This idea is abhorrent to any socialist........indeed, it is abhorrent to most people on the islands of Britain.
348

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 18:05:02
374 Anthony

“Sounds like socialists have degenerated into the new lumpant prolatariat to me”

Did you mean “lumpenproletariat “?

Just wondered.

349

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 18:05:30
#376, Davy.

And your point is?
350

Iain Mac,

10/06/2009 18:05:56
Check out Russel Brand and Nazi Boy - a bnp organiser. It gave me new respect for Brand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAKUdEWzq8&feature=PlayList&p=5D9E2CAD25BE740C&index=0
351

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 18:12:01
#374, Anthony.

Please explain your description of the BNP as "pro working class"?

What is "pro working class" about the forced repatriation of ethnically unnacceptable workers?

What is "pro working class" about the antipathy to marrying someone you love on the basis of enthicity?

Are you still maintaining you have no affiliation with the BNP?
352

Fairfax,

10/06/2009 18:13:12
Observer (375): "371 Fairfax Nick Cohen supported the Iraq War. "

I don't really see why Nick Cohen's politics are relevant to the article to which I linked. I simply gave a shameful example of Islamic antisemitism before Gaza -- in this case, Bangladeshi antisemitism in Bethnal Green, directed towards Jewish pensioners commemorating a V2 attack in 2005. I witnessed this particular event, and can see no error in Cohen's description. Still, you're probably correct that this is a topic for another thread.
353

Anthony,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 18:24:38
381) No one would be forcefully repatriated due to ethnicity. Illegal immigrants would be repatriated because they have no right to be here, pure and simple. Bogus asylum seekers would be sent packing - because it's the right thing to do. People from other cultural backgrounds who want to leave, would be given assistance, under a scheme which already exists, and is supported by labour tory libdem and snp!

It seems to me, all the BNP are saying, is that Britain, like any other nation, ought to be allowed to determine her own immigration policy. Immigration has to operate for the good of this country - not just the good of the immigrants.

Stop the immigration tool being used to hammer the poor!
354

Davy,

10/06/2009 18:35:24

307Yeah1
All politicians are liars WMD & the Tories also backed Labour on that one
Can anyone blame the masses for not voting?
As long as we don’t vote we are going to get parties we don’t want. Then again what party do we want? Can anyone name one outstanding politician, or one you could trust?
The last one I trusted was Michel Foot & the papers ripped him to shreds it was a sin what they did to that man. That’s what happens when a politician is genuine & speaks the true spoke. So now they tell us what we want to hear then do what they like.
355

Davy,

10/06/2009 18:39:18
Oh aye, I forgot to mention the oppressive smoking ban.
Politicians suck.

356

Davy,

10/06/2009 18:51:55
337 Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen
I have just completed that task. I used an egg; figure that one out my Cyber Shebeen
357

,

10/06/2009 18:58:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
358

dunedin bully wee 1877,

10/06/2009 19:03:34
Is it not just wonderful that the mere presence of the First Minister during the “dissolution” debate has the Labourites in apoplexy?
359

Davy,

10/06/2009 19:07:58
frank mcbride
The point is I have just taken a great task upon myself at the request of 337 Horrible Cankers
And she is my Cyber Shebeen so dinnae be cutting the feet away fae me.
360

Media at One,

10/06/2009 19:11:24
Political correctness has anaesthetised our ability to impart our views in an honest and sincere manner. We have been led to believe that racism and discrimination is rife and that it must be stamped out. Of course there is no disputing the need to stamp it out when it happens, but where is it happening? And why is it that the mention of the word racism sees white people scurrying for cover feeling unconsciously responsible for the plight of the black man? It appears to me that the word racism is most often used when a black person is on the receiving end of an unsavoury remark or some objectionable condition, but when a white person feels they are being unfairly treated the word racism is replaced with the word equality. I think it is important to ensure that men and women of all colours are treated with equal respect, but it appears as if white people are the only ones who must adhere to politically correct motivations and actions when it comes to that equality. I see a black President in America and acknowledge him as being the best thing that has happened to America in many years, not because he is black, but because unlike previous Presidents he is a statesman who looks officially sincere and competent. But if racism is rife and white people are the reason it is rife then how come there is a black man in the white house? How come there are no white music awards? How come there are no white doctors associations? How come there are no best white student awards? How come there are no white economic empowerment laws in place in any nation on the planet, yet many support black economic empowerment. How come there are countless thousands of white missionaries in Africa risking their lives to save the lives of black people whose black governments could care less for? How come there are white doctors working and saving lives in Africa? How come white people in Europe raise hundreds of millions each year for hungry kids in Africa without ever asking for Africa to give
361

Media at One,

10/06/2009 19:12:04
ever asking for Africa to give back? The BNP are a problem because they do not support the notion of being proud of one’s ancestry, rather they place the white man on a pedestal and ignore the presence of black people, which is unacceptable. But if we remove the BNP’s right to speak, we remove the opportunity to question them and thus deliver a crushing and hypocritical blow to democracy.
362

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 19:34:51
Sorry Fairfax I was in a rush and just assumed it would be the usual Nick Cohen article he seems to write all the time.

I've already said I think anti semitism is inexcusable no matter who is doing it and in what circumstances.

363

Mèths,

10/06/2009 19:36:52
"And why is it that the mention of the word racism sees white people scurrying for cover feeling unconsciously responsible for the plight of the black man?"

The fact that the African continent has been raped & pillaged of mineral wealth for decades?

European colonists dividing the spoils of Africa?

List below up until WW1.

BRITAIN: Botswana, Cameroon, Egypt, Gambia, Ghana, Kenya, Lesotho, Malawi, Mauritius, Nigeria, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Swaziland, Uganda, Zanzibar, Zambia, Zimbabwe

FRANCE: Algeria, Benin, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Cote D'Ivoire, Djibouti, Gabon, Guinea, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Senegal, Tunisia

GERMANY: Burundi, Cameroon, Morocco, Namibia, Rwanda, Tanganyika, Togo

BELGIUM: Congo

ITALY: Libya

NETHERLANDS: South Africa

PORTUGAL: Angola, Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau Mozambique, San Tome & Principe

SPAIN: Equatorial Guinea, Morocco

364

Mèths,

10/06/2009 19:44:43
"And why is it that the mention of the word racism sees white people scurrying for cover feeling unconsciously responsible for the plight of the black man?"

I forgot - slavery?
365

Media at One,

10/06/2009 19:49:33
Meths
I would agree that the west has been ruthless with the minerals, but if African leaders would grow up and behave like politicians as opposed to gravitating to consistent failure it would help. Even if just one country out of the 52 could grow up. I see Haiti on the other side of the globe is now the poorest country in the world following some 200 odd years of independence.
That list of nations that white people colonised - you may want to add The Moon and soon to be Mars. Leading the way in the progress of mankind appears to be the order of the day.
And I imagine that NASA on finding out there is a population of 300 000 little Marsian men, would still go to Mars, would still colonise it and would stil feel no guilt about it because that is the way it has to be.
366

Mèths,

10/06/2009 19:53:22
Media

Catch you tomorrow Media. The thread is way too long already.
367

Media at One,

10/06/2009 19:55:49
Meths -
Slavery in Africa was rife long before the white man arrived. In fact the majority of the black slaves that were taken to America were sold to the whites by the black slave owners.
And today, the only continent that continues to employ slavery is Africa.
368

Horrible Cankers @Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2009 20:13:33
389...Eh Davy lad...that request wis fir anither fella who goes by the name o' "Sam the God"..got yer posts a bit mixed up there sunshine bit nivver mind and I hope ye didnae dae yersell a mischief wae the egg shell....probably could hae made a whopper o' a merangue oot o' that eh boay?..
369

Davy,

10/06/2009 20:14:20
394 Mèths
If it was not for tobacco & slavery, we would be minus that big city on the west coast of Scotland
So we can never forget slavery, the Scots benefitted in a big way. They also started the KKK, and invented the telephone.
370

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 20:19:33
400 for the slaves and their descendants.

And a pox on the BNP.
371

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 20:22:06
399 The ordinary Glaswegian benefitted not a jot from slavery. Slavery benefitted the capitalist class not the ordinary people.
372

Davy,

10/06/2009 20:28:17
Observer True, what about tobacco. It still had a hand in building the city, which is also true.
373

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 20:33:59
Yes tobacco did help physically build the city for rich people to live in. Meantime living conditions for the poor were shocking. You could pay money to sleep around the end of a rope dangling from the ceiling to the floor in those days.

374

Davy,

10/06/2009 20:52:02
Observer aye okay, true again.
They would sail from Glasgow pick up the slaves in Africa, or one of the Islands off its west coast. Then on the return journey, they would have a cargo of tobacco.
That is also true.
375

Anthony,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 20:54:39
Observer - you make good points and you are correct in what you say. Given that it wasn't the vast majority of ordinary people who exploited people in developing countries, why should they be the ones paying the full cost of colonial payback? Instead of mass immigration from ex-commonwealth countries which hits the poor in this country hardest, they should take the estates from those who directly inherited it from their ancestors dealings in slavery, and give it back to the third world.
376

Davy,

10/06/2009 21:08:03
Anthony,Glasgow

I hope I have not hit a sore point here.
A fact of life is, when a great deal of money is being made in any community it filters its way down the line. Sum will get the big bite of the cherry & the rest get the crumbs. Either directly or indirectly everyone gets something. Even, if it’s the street beggar.
377

Observer,,

Glasgow 10/06/2009 21:19:25
405 Anthony what part of the country are you talking about ? I post from a Scottish perspective. The situation is different here from that in London/SE etc.

I actually think that recent immigration into Glasgow has been of economic benefit and will continue to benefit us. This city was in terminal decline with a shrinking population. That has been reversed.

That doesn't mean I don't understand the concerns of people who live in other areas, because I do.

But the BNP are not the answer to people's fears and they have the potential to do great harm.

378

Fairfax,

10/06/2009 22:27:02
Observer (407): "I actually think that recent immigration into Glasgow has been of economic benefit and will continue to benefit us."

I would say that it's important to determine who benefits economically. Most (but not all) immigrants take unskilled or semi-skilled jobs, with the result that the cost of services decreases, together with wage levels. Since the wages acceptable to immigrants are low, it is often not economically rational for working classes to accept these jobs, because of existing benefits. The net result is therefore a gain for the middle-classes, but diminished wages for the working class, the poorest of whom form an unemployed welfare-dependent underclass. Further, the net gain for the economy diminishes rapidly once immigrants raise families, since the taxes paid by many immigrants will not cover the cost of infrastructure. There is also the consequence that immigrants will tend to live in working class areas of cities, with the result that social tensions are felt more by working class whites rather than middle-class whites, who typically live elsewhere. This pattern may not yet be evident in Edinburgh and Glasgow, but is typical in London, the home of some 40% of all immigrants.
379

radge dug,

10/06/2009 22:43:21
Anthony should argue with the west coast fishermen who want the Philipinos to stay and not be deported. HE wouldn't do their job that's for sure.
380

Anderman,

Victoria BC 10/06/2009 23:05:06
#155 dunedin bully wee, to equate democracy with the electorate is to illustrate my point that the BNP has a washed brain following. I was referring to Voltaire's argument on the question of the Paris Accord and his thesis on the dialectics of contagian on which I still argue that he got it wrong.
381

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/06/2009 23:24:40
#408, Fairfax.

Your analysis is quite accurate, but the BNP is not the answer.

The BNP's leadership give not one hoot for the working class.

They are meglomaniac authoritarians whose only interest in the working class is as voting fodder. They appeal to the deepest human emotion: FEAR.

They spread fear and despondency with the intent of stirring anger to serve their aim of totalitarian power.

If the BNP leadership have the answers why have they not worked them through the mainstream Parties?

Which of the BNP leadership has been a prominent member of a mainstream UK Party?
382

Fairfax,

11/06/2009 08:03:00
frank mcbride (411): "#408, Fairfax.

Your analysis is quite accurate, but the BNP is not the answer."

I completely agree. I would say that the answer is a rational discussion of immigration's advantages and disadvantages, but stripped of the political correctness which has hampered debate. To this end, I hope that Frank Field''s work in this area will continue.
383

Iain Mac,

11/06/2009 08:43:45
#411- correct. The bnp leadership are a bunch of toff private schoolboys.
384

Anthony,

Glasgow 11/06/2009 12:47:30
407) Observer - I live in Glasgow - in a working class housing estate. And I have to say, I do not recognise your description of mass immigration and asylum abuse as benefiting our economy. All I see are various scams being operated, and a huge increase in new arrivals with for example, mobility cars (despite looking very sprightly) and blue badges. I also see a terrible drain on our social housing stock, as they get to buy up their houses at discounts funded by tax-payers - often before returning to the country they supposedly fled in fear from in the first place.

In fact, so bad is all this, that the government have taken the extraordinary step of slapping the Official Secrets Act on for example the tenancy agreements given to asylum seekers! Why? Because if people saw what they are being given, there would be riots.
385

Ifan Har,

scotland 12/06/2009 16:36:39
If anyone posting here saw the evening news either on BBC1 or Channe l4 they would have been delighted to see that yet another white Briton was murdered by three Black settlers.

I am sure that you would have been filled with admiration at seeing their faces and realising what they had been responsible for.

Seeing the dying white stagger to his death, Kinsella was his name must really have given you BNP haters a thrill!

But then, he was only a white victim, not worthy of your sympathy.

I cannot help wondering how much admiration you would afford a black settler who had killed your son or an Asian settler detonating a bomb in an area where your daughter or wife was?

It is comming your way so be prepared!!!!
386

Blackie,

W.NT State 15/06/2009 02:28:13
There is nothing wrong with national pride and trying to protect ones culture and traditions that are being eroded as the years pass by liberal immigration policies. Do you want a mongeral nation of gray people. I am British and Scots and I will die the same. This is nothing in common with the Nazis and as time passes more people will awaken to the fact that the BNP has the right policy even though you may not agree with all their comments. How can any true Brit not see the light that the major parties are afraid to mention because of the political correctness drivel. Long live a British nation and get out of the Europeran Union as they will become Muslim first.

 

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