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Margo: I want to research my own death at euthanasia clinic abroad



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Published Date: 14 April 2008
MARGO MacDonald, the veteran MSP, is planning to research foreign suicide clinics which allow those with terminal illnesses to end their own lives.
The 64-year-old, who suffers from Parkinson's disease, recently told fellow MSPs that she should be allowed to bring about her own death if the condition deteriorates. She is now calling for a public debate on assisted suicide.

Ms MacDonald, the independent MSP for the Lothians, said: "I want to research the whole topic."

She said she had not investigated how assisted suicide clinics operate before, adding: "I'm not exactly at death's door."

But she added: "I feel a responsibility because I've spoken about the principle of the thing. I've got to get to know about the practicalities and I've got to hear all sorts of opinions." Last month Ms MacDonald told MSPs: "I want to find a way in which I can take the decision to end my life in case I'm unlucky enough to have the worst form of Parkinson's near the end of life."

Scots law does not permit people to assist in taking a life and the health secretary, Nicola Sturgeon, has said the Scottish Government has no plans to change that.

In countries such as the Netherlands, Belgium and the state of Oregon in the US, assisted suicide is legal, while in Switzerland, it is decriminalised.

Ms MacDonald argued the situation meant that people suffering from a terminal disease who wanted to end their own lives had little alternative other than going to an assisted suicide clinic abroad. She said: "People have no other option if they want to make sure they don't criminalise anyone in the UK, and nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants to put that burden on anybody."

While Ms MacDonald stressed she supported palliative care, she added: "Hospices aren't anything like as widespread as I would want to see them, and there is no doubt about it that palliative care varies from district to district."

Sheila Duffy, a member of Friends At The End (Fate), a Scotland-based group which campaigns for a change in assisted suicide laws and promotes knowledge about the issue, said: "

Margo has obviously thought about this, it's not some knee-jerk reaction.

"It does require courage to do this sort of thing. Most people don't want to face up to the fact that we are going to die.

"We have written to her saying that she is raising the profile of this issue and speaking for a lot of people who don't have anyone to speak for them."

Ms Duffy said, however, that politicians were still unwilling to consider the issue of assisted suicide, pointing to the Liberal Democrat MSP Jeremy Purvis' failure to introduce a debate on it.

"We feel that this is a situation where public opinion is in front of politicians, who are very afraid to touch it anyway."

'Once you take this last drink, there is no going back'

Dr Michael Schmidt, a retired GP who was struck off in 2005 for assisting a patient's suicide and has accompanied three people to an assisted suicide clinic in Switzerland, claims it is a 'matter-of-fact' process for those who have decided to end their own lives.

IT'S quite a long process. People imagine you can just jump on a plane and go over there, go to the flat the next day and you die, but that's not the case.

You've got to join the organisation Dignitas first; there are about 1,000 members in the UK. I'm a member – it's a bit like an insurance policy. If you develop a terminal illness, you have to produce medical reports, which is not always easy, because if doctors know what you're planning, they may be reluctant to do this.

These reports are evaluated by the doctors on the board of Dignitas. They give a provisional green light, which means the patient qualifies for their help, but you will still have to wait a month or two before you're given a date when you can go there. So it can take four to six months from the beginning of the process.

Taking into account flights and hotels, it costs £3,000-£4,500.

When I visited, it was based in a flat in a residential block in Zurich, but after objections from other homeowners, it has moved on to another premises in an industrial estate.

It is a very dignified process. When you get to Zurich you have to see two of their doctors on two separate days before you can go to the flat. This can be stressful for the families, so you have to be very tough-minded to go through with it.

Basically, you go up to the flat; it is very nicely furnished, nice paintings on the wall and very peaceful. You can sit around the table with your family and friends.

The last time I was there, the man's business had been Motown music. He was gay, and he sat with his partner and two of their friends and listened to Motown music for the last hour or so. It was like a celebration in a way and such a dignified process.

In the run-up to the actual act, the patients are asked several times: "Do you really want to do this?" The point is made that "once you take this last drink, there is no going back, this is the end".

The attitude tends to be one of resignation, but also a sense of finally being at peace.

The paramedics present give the patient something to settle the stomach about half an hour before they take the barbiturate solution.

The barbiturates come in a sherry-sized glass and are very bitter. You've got to drink the solution pretty quickly, in a matter of a minute or so, or you won't drink enough and just slip into a coma and you're worse off.

Having seen three people go through this, I would say they get drowsy in two minutes, fall into a coma in five minutes and are dead in 20 minutes.

The last few minutes are taped, for the security, police and medical examiner, because they have to make certain the person took it voluntarily.

Once the person has died, the police and medical factor comes, usually within half an hour. They're very friendly. They say: "I'm sorry you had to go through with this." They look over the body and look at the video, then give the OK for the body to be taken away. They're usually cremated and their ashes sent back.

The Dignitas staff are very friendly. They offer chocolate, tea and, after the person has died, brandy to those who are there. It's not like a celebration; that would be macabre. It's just a very matter-of-fact process.

The full article contains 1152 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 01:13:09
What can one say,?

If it is genuinally to help others, 'Fair Enough'!

If I was in MARGO MacDonald's shoes, I would not be thinking about my own "Death", but would crawl to my
'Death-Bed', helping others first, before thinking about myself.

'All-in-All' it is a tragic situation to be in and,
of-course,
MARGO MacDonald's, situation should be respected.
2

Larry Hallatt,

Chesley Canada 14/04/2008 05:40:45
We have had similar small debates in Canada. Currently a Member of the Federa Parliament from the Province of Quebec Francine Lalonde is putting together a Private Members Bill to be introduced in Parliament.

While a significant number of Canadians firmly support assisted suicides politicians in general are reluctant to pass legislation allowing it.

Suicide is fully legal, assisted suicide is not at the monment, yet we have had cases of authorities looking the other way and not proceding with any investigation when doctors,friends and an Member of Parliament were present at the Susan Rodrigous "suicide".

Susan had lost a Supreme Court challenge of our law forbidding assisted suicides. the Court simply ruled current law did not support giving assistance, yet an adult individual had the right to take ones own life.


3

Expat artist,

Home 14/04/2008 07:08:34
After reading this well-researched and informative article, I think Margo MacDonald should have our wholehearted support. Let the euthanasia debate become public. I'll bet she gets more support than her colleague politicians ever dreamt of.
Why? Because the only negative aspect I can see in the assisted suicide contract described in this article is dying in a flat, however tastefully decorated, in an industrial suburb of Switzerland.
Having chosen to die, should we not have the right to carry out this ultimate decision in Scotland, in surroundings meaningful to the suicide and, just as important, sympathetic to friends and family present at the time of departure as they will no doubt return to these moments in their recollections in years to come? It would be good to know these recollections were framed in a familiar environment.
Thus the issue is not only the right to terminate your own life when faced with irrevocable and terminal evidence but also the right to choose where to die. Having made the choice to end your life should we then not have the right to die where we feel we belong?
We should not be obliged by skulk to a corner in an industrial estate to be dispatched as a matter-of-fact - irrespective of how decently it is handled.
The situation is: we know Why, we know roughly When, we know How but Where is still decided by circumstance. Circumstances can be changed. Let us have this debate, a debate where the facts are given a public airing and where the moral aspects are scrutinized in the context of a contemporary society.
4

Hugo of Garven,

14/04/2008 07:39:10
#3 Expat artist,Home
I suspect that the unease about this is usually more related to concern about possible misuse rather than a moral concern.

That said, I want this right.
5

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 14/04/2008 08:30:30
Depending on your view point, we have a euthanasia at one end of a life span (abortions up to 24 weeks) so why not at the other end (and the decision made by the person that want's to die as apposed to a person that has no say).

This is a good thing.
6

Mcsnagpile,

14/04/2008 08:37:57
If a person can define the rules-- what is the minimum, acceptable quality of life before suicide; what level of pain, loss of dignity, above all hopelessness.

Perhaps suicide is the greatest freedom that anyone can have, something that strikes at the core of all religions, slavery, even governments. When self-death as an option, it is the ultimate total denial.
If we all had the courage to lay down the rules of our own life beyond which is self annihilation –what a different world we would have.
The ancient Greeks would sentence the criminal to suicide, leaving him in his cell with a clay pot of hemlock. How focused this mans mind must have been before death. Come back and tell us Aristotle.
You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour.
7

Boy Wonder,

14/04/2008 08:40:16
Over the course of her career, I have rarely agreed with anything Ms MacDonald has said ... but with this subject I am with her the entire way. She is the odvious candidate to speak about dignity in death and her attitude towards her own situation is commendable. I'm sorry she has Parkinson's and what lies ahead for her ... and I hope those in authority will listen to her and come to an agreement that assisted suicide is not a bad thing entirely.
If it was me in that position, I would not like to linger in pain and would appreciate having the right to choose how and when to end it all.
Ms Macdonald, you have my admiration and total support for what it's worth!
8

Glasgow Jim,

Glasgow 14/04/2008 09:46:04
Who'll be paying for this 'fact finding trip' (aka junket)?
9

Cynical,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 09:51:56
Oh, dear, #8. What an attitude. :(
10

Glasgow Jim,

Glasgow 14/04/2008 10:56:09
Oh dear #9. You've obviously never met her.
11

Digory,

/ 14/04/2008 10:59:55
There is a multitude of situations, ailments, illnesses, ages and circumstances.

I think that it would be a mistake for this issue to become unduly centred around one person and one type of illness or approach.

There are also other people who are seeking to build a future around their illness or disability.

It is also important to allow people Life and Hope.

12

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

14/04/2008 11:18:44
11...Yes but it is also important to offer the terminally ill a dignified death in the comfort of their own home with their friends or family around them.
13

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 12:03:39
Well done, Margo. Let's hope the law here is changed soon.
14

,

14/04/2008 12:57:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Busymale,

14/04/2008 13:07:54
My mother died from Parkinsons just over a year ago, and I'm in total agreement with the right to die with dignity.

She was reduced to a concrete slab, who couldn't move from her chair. A torture for such a previously active woman.

Hail on Margo.
16

yockel,

14/04/2008 13:33:17
#1 Charles, sometimes you are such a plonker. Margo, it's your call.
17

Boy Wonder,

14/04/2008 13:38:14
#18. Only sometimes??????
18

Jmhzx,

brighton 14/04/2008 13:46:39
Something tells me this is going to run and run. I'm sick of it already. Why do we all have to drawn into this thing? It's Margo's business - why does she need to make such a song and dance about it. I don't want a daily update on her condition - It's not my business
19

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

14/04/2008 14:04:09
20...You are mistaken if you think this is only about Margo...it is not just her business but the business of each and every one of us. Read the previous posters and then put yourself in their position when your time comes....

Your death is your business....and you should be able to expect a dignified end. Or perhaps you would prefer to have your family suffering as they watch you suffer?...as in post 16...dreadful for families..

14..I can only hope that someone will help you or that you find the strength do end your own life...as is your right...I am sure your family will understand and respect your wishes...I'l look up Jeremy Purvis.....send him a wee email or give him a ring....
20

Royalty,

Zandvoort 14/04/2008 14:04:34
This is sad, Margot is a respected figure despite being a nationalist.

As #20 says, this is her own personal business & we dont want a daily update on her condition.

21

sam the god,

14/04/2008 14:22:04
It will not become law in this country as our politicians are scared to make that decision in case they are ex communicated from the catholic church.

Having watched my mother die from cancer we all including her wished that assisted suicide was legal. It should go to a national vote and the politicians should accept the result.


22

Gavin MacColl,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 18:00:56
Although I have a lot of respect for Margo MacDonald and am sorry to hear about her condition, this is an exercise in the very worst type of conceit.

There are better and less public ways to search for a resolution.
23

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

14/04/2008 18:48:42
24....Not at all...having a well known name attached to the this issue will help keep it on the agenda and there will be more media attention paid to it because of that...

I wish her all the very best...
24

Nikostratos,

14/04/2008 19:31:46
If Margo wish to end her life early that is up to her. But trying to encourage others is wrong...........Most people who assist other very ill relatives and then find themselves before a court are treated fairly and with compassion...........they are not given 20years at hard labour......

#23

I too have made that journey with members of my family and terrible as it was to give the state the option to end a citizens life's due to illness is a step i could never agree with ever. You tell me where the line is to be drawn on how hopeless a case is and think where that decision would have been made 20,30 or 50 years ago. And what criteria do you use to say this person or that should live or die does someone who could live longer say i best end my life early to save my loved ones stress when perhaps they could have more time.

Where does medical science go toward saving life or towards ending awkward and expensive illnesses sooner by aiding the individual to die painlessly..
25

beckypumps1,

Fife 14/04/2008 20:21:12
I would like to have this right for myself and my family, I fully support Margo on this.

As for fact finding I always start with google.
26

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 14/04/2008 21:32:13
There but for the grace of God go I!
27

Beth Boyle,

NY 14/04/2008 22:22:30
This is just weird, really weird. Just do it and don't scream it from the hill tops. Margo you are sick in more than one way.
28

,

14/04/2008 22:25:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
29

Beth Boyle,

NY 14/04/2008 22:30:37
Hey make a reality show about it and film it and broadcast it by satellite. It's twisted and really morose to go on about it all in the press. Someone really can't get enough attention it seems. If you feel the need jump off a bridge don't make an art form out of it.
30

Beth Boyle,

NY 14/04/2008 22:36:57
"The Dignitas staff are very friendly. They offer chocolate, tea and, after the person has died, brandy to those who are there. It's not like a celebration; that would be macabre. It's just a very matter-of-fact process." Very sick!!
31

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

14/04/2008 23:03:46
Your lack of compassion and sympathy is actually very sick...if you have an issue with death go talk to a shrink and do not disrespect other people's needs and wishes.

It is not twisted and morose...it is adult and civilized...if you want to read something happy shiny go pick up a kids comic....

Its attitudes like your's that are the problem...and please stop ridiculing people who are dying...it is vulgar and extremely distasteful...much...I expect...as you are...
32

clarry,

14/04/2008 23:09:47
33 Horrible

Your lack of compassion and sympathy about my dad is actually very sick.
33

Beth Boyle,

NY 14/04/2008 23:16:06

No wonder you call yourself a canker. This story is not fit to print. Margo should enjoy what life she has left and be glad she has time to say her goodbyes and still enjoy some good times. How morose and bizarre this all is. Just read this stuff once more... "Basically, you go up to the flat; it is very nicely furnished, nice paintings on the wall and very peaceful. You can sit around the table with your family and friends.". My God, if you are going to do it stop trying to draw attention to yourself and who the heck cares about the paintings on the wall! People are really loosing it in this modern age I must say.
34

clarry,

14/04/2008 23:22:38

Aye she fairly puts her feet in it.
35

Beth Boyle,

NY 14/04/2008 23:32:37
I would never put my family and friends through anything like that. If I were to take my life I would not draw others into it all. My Father waited until everyone was gone from the room to die. I just lost him. I have much sympathy for the sick and dying but not for the drama queens! This whole thing reminds me of Nazi Germany. What a selfish thing this all is and so unnatural. Spend your time embracing life not death! Celebrate every moment and leave death to nature.
36

clarry,

14/04/2008 23:42:38


She likes a bit of attention!
37

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 23:42:59
Beth @#35,

"Margo should enjoy what life she has left and be glad she has time to say her goodbyes and still enjoy some good times."

This is what, in a 'round about way' I was saying in my post #1,

Also She could have great enjoyment, with the power she has, to still help others, in lots of ways, other than death!
38

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

14/04/2008 23:43:48
Hello Clarty which father is that?...because you dont seem to know...

37...As I said you are twisting this issue and article into something morbid and macarbe...Lucky you that your father waited till you left the room to die...I was there with mine...while he died...after several weeks of an agonising slow cancerous death in hospital...had he the choice it would have been very different...

"
39

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

14/04/2008 23:49:00
"Unnatural" you say...you mean like the contraceptive pill...abortion...like pacemakers...defibrilation...anti-biotics...insulin...a man on the moon...HRT...anti-deppressants...

Who are you to tell any dying person how they should end their final moments?

And Charles...Margo is helping people...with her help people who want the right to assisted suicide...may well achieve it...
40

Beth Boyle,

NY 14/04/2008 23:51:21
Yes exactly Charles! It's not the approach I would take if I found myself with Parkinsons. I would spend every last minute doing something uplifting. I have watched TV shows of the Dutch doing this assisted death thing and something was just so wrong. I am not one who fears death or needs to be protected from talking about it. I just think its twisted to go on about it like this. Margo has the power from her well known name to do better. Take a look at what Michael J Fox has done he has Parkinsons! He was a famous actor and got it when he was far younger than Margo. I say snap out of it women and show some real guts!

http://www.michaeljfox.org/
41

Beth Boyle,

NY 14/04/2008 23:55:18
Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen you need counciling. You seem to hate life no wonder you cling to death.
42

clarry,

14/04/2008 23:55:34
Horrible

I'm not twisting this issue and article into something morbid and macarbe. We all have to deal with death and yes most of us have to watch our parents die. Death is part of life. Pity we do deal with it in a certain way.
Sometimes try and sweep it under the carpet, so to speak and avoid the issue. Margo is right to highlight the issue. Although some folk would disagree for religious issues.

Cancer deaths are often very unfortunate and often drugs do help. Many people have to go through such agony when their relatives die. Though many doctors do take action.
43

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 14/04/2008 23:55:39
Cankers, @#41,

"Margo is helping people...with her help people who want the right to assisted suicide...may well achieve it..."

Yes I respect that, but would hope the rest of her life was not, just centered on this subject, as she has Soo more much she could give.
44

clarry,

14/04/2008 23:57:08


Hope we all have a heart attack in the best possible way. What a way to go.

Have to go and pick up someone.
45

clarry,

14/04/2008 23:58:34

Charles are you under Beth's influence you spelt centered the American way. Centred.
46

Beth Boyle,

NY 15/04/2008 00:00:00
Yes, its true I am a bad influence on others.
47

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

15/04/2008 00:10:54
48..."Snap out of it and show some real guts"...as I said, a vulgarian and extremely distasteful....

Life is precious, which is why it is so important the end is not one of suffering for the dying and their families.
48

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/04/2008 00:16:31
clarry @#47,

OK maybe an a 'Americanism', but re-read my post #1,

I may be,..'Bonkers' at times, and have health issues to as in IVF, as has my wife, but even though this is devastating for us, my wife and I are always finding ways of, helping others, before we put our problems out first,

I could 'wrap myself up' and talk about the devastation of not being able to, 'have-a baby' brings all day long, but what good would that be,?

Far better like tonight, a couple with a,
'Three year old' just 'split-up'
And Mum is finding it tough!

We offered to take her 3year old daughter out at the weekend to give mum a break, instead of crying,

"Its alright for you, at least you can 'have a baby'
49

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

15/04/2008 00:19:08
44..Clarry..I was referring to Beth at post 37...and not you....unless you are Beth...
50

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

15/04/2008 00:31:11
...as I expected Beth...someone with a head full of religious shoite....hence your disrespectful comments re Margo McDonald and the people who wish to take their life into their own hands...cos you dont believe that they own it do you bud?
51

clarry,

15/04/2008 00:53:21
50

Sorry Charles no need to go off on one. I only mentioned the spelling - like in a joke - didn't want your life history.
52

clarry,

15/04/2008 00:55:11
51 Horrible

You did mention my dad - must have misunderstood. Right enough I don't have one. Test tube baby.
53

clarry,

15/04/2008 01:00:33
50

Charles with all the cuddling you and wifie does, I'm sure things will work out for you. Know plenty people who have been successful with help. Yes, it is a big problem unfortunately seems to affect many couples now days.
54

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 15/04/2008 01:40:19
Ta! clarry #55,

True Love, we hope will conquer in the end!

Love the,..'Cuddling' BTW, it leads not always to one thing, the enjoyment of being together is enough, but 'Baby' would make it perfect!

"Beggars-cant-be-choosers" and all that! :-((
55

Kate,

Zurich 15/04/2008 08:41:46
Dignitas is not in a nicely furnished flat! It used to be but the residents complained about having body bags stacked upright in the lift! Hold that thought. Then they moved to a house in one of the suburbs, but did not declare their intended use of private residential property so again, the neighbours complaine. Then they started renting hotel rooms - not great for tourism. They have also used a caravan, which keeps being moved on.

I am totally in favour of the right to die with dignity on your own terms, particularly if you are suffering such a debilitating illnes as Parkinson's but this company here in Zurich is not the solution.
56

clarry,

15/04/2008 10:34:26
56 Charles

Don't give up hope. Things can change when you lest expect it. Honest. Good Luck!

 

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