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Entry to EU 'automatic' for Scotland, says Deputy First Minister



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Published Date: 12 December 2007
AN INDEPENDENT Scotland would "automatically" become a member of the European Union, the Deputy First Minister maintained yesterday.
Nicola Sturgeon told MSPs that both political and legal opinion supported the SNP government's position that there would be no need to renegotiate EU membership after Scotland broke away from the UK.

But opposition MSPs last night warned that Ms Sturgeon's assertion "did not hold water" as it contradicted the recently expressed view of one of Europe's most senior officials.

The new dispute over membership of the EU was prompted by evidence Ms Sturgeon gave to Holyrood's Europe and external relations committee. Ms Sturgeon told MSPs on the committee: "It is the very clear view of the SNP and of the Government that Scotland would automatically be a member of the European Union upon independence.

"There is very clear legal opinion that backs up that position. I don't think the legal position, therefore, is in any doubt."

She said that the political position was "clearer still". As the EU was expanding, "the idea that Scotland would somehow be cast out is incredible and does not bear any sensible scrutiny".

Asked whether an independent Scotland would be required to renegotiate the terms of membership, Ms Sturgeon replied: "No."

Ms Sturgeon said that under international "law of successor states", Scotland "would assume the rights and responsibilities of the UK and that would include automatic membership of the European Union and the overwhelming weight of legal opinion backs up that view".

She said that she could not find credible the argument that the EU would not "enthusiastically" want to have "oil rich" Scotland as a member.

Ms Sturgeon's claims were last night attacked by Labour, which cited a recent interview given by Joe Borg, the EU fisheries commissioner, to The Scotsman.

In September, Mr Borg stated unequivocally that in his view, an independent Scotland would remain outside the EU until it had completed the formal application process - in the same way as eastern European states have done in recent years.

He added: "If we were to assume that Scotland gained independence and therefore is eligible as a new member state for the European Union, I would see that, legally speaking, the continuation of the membership would remain with the rest of the UK, less Scotland.

"And, therefore, Scotland, as a newly independent state, would have to apply for membership."

Jackie Baillie, Labour's shadow minister for parliamentary business, said: "The SNP's assumption that Scotland would immediately get a place at the European table just doesn't hold any water.

"The EU's fisheries commissioner said earlier this year that Scotland would be forced to apply and that means there's no presumption of membership being granted.

"It's about time the SNP were honest enough to admit that our place in Europe is in jeopardy if Scotland is wrenched out of the United Kingdom."

The Scottish Government was last night unable to supply details of the legal advice that Ms Sturgeon said she had on the issue of EU membership.

However, in the past the SNP has cited the late Robin Cook who, the party claims, said when he was foreign secretary that an independent Scotland would remain a member of the EU.

A spokesman for the EU said: "We do not comment on hypothetical situations."

AN UNPRECEDENTED SITUATION


THERE is no precedent of a member state breaking up, which means the issue of an independent Scotland's position within the EU is under speculation.

Greenland, a dependency of Denmark, left voluntarily in 1985 over a dispute about fishing rights. International case law favours the notion that the larger entity in a political break-up is usually designated the inheritor of all treaty obligations. This would therefore leave Scottish ministers having to negotiate not just membership of the EU, but of the United Nations and the WTO. However, many argue it would not benefit the EU to fracture borders, at a time when it is engaged in enlargement.

The full article contains 667 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Karin M,

12/12/2007 00:44:34

the article says however many argue
it would not benefit the EU to fracture borders, at a time when it is engaged in enlargement.

who said this who are the MANY.

why no source.

2

Karin M,

12/12/2007 00:45:14

1 dont you make me get my mccrone out.

3

druidh,

12/12/2007 00:45:44

"Joe Borg, the EU fisheries commissioner"

Ah yes - the well known constitutional expert.

4

 Ayrshire Scot™,

12/12/2007 00:48:51

1. AM2 - are you quoting the Fisheries Commissioner, who prefixed his remarks with a statement of his non-expertise in the area, and the fact it is nothing to do with his remit? What a solid basis for your opinions, as ever.


I wonder, is Jersey part of the EU?

5

TommyKaye,

UK 12/12/2007 00:48:58

Time for your medication AM2

6

druidh,

12/12/2007 00:49:35

I can just see the "negotiations"...

Scotland: policy of accepting immigrants, large oil producer, massive potential for wind/wave energy, EUs largest fisheries.....


England: racist europhobes, net importer of energy, in back pocket of USA . . .


Which one do you think the Euros will want?

7

Karin M,

12/12/2007 00:49:43

how about westinister saying europe would be foolish to not let scotland join. in the mccrone report.
"As the
major producer of oil in Western Europe, however, Scotland would be in a key
position and other countries would be extremely foolish if they did not seek to
do all they could to accommodate Scottish interests."

8

,

12/12/2007 00:50:42
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9

Karin M,

12/12/2007 00:51:21

5 i dont know ayrshire its certainly not part of the UK for electoral purposes like erm donations to political parties.

10

 Ayrshire Scot™,

12/12/2007 00:52:03

9 AM

it doesn't matter if the UK is a signatory, the UK will not be adjudicating.

Are you saying they will oppose a democratic vote by Scots? I happen to have a higher regard for our our EU partners belief in democracy and self-determination.

11

Karin M,

12/12/2007 00:52:24

9 and it wouldnt be britain that would be signing up according to you it would be scotland.

12

 Ayrshire Scot™,

12/12/2007 00:53:01

11. Karin - you would think Jackie Baillie should study UK electoral law before pronouncing on EU treaty law? Or perhaps her grasp of both is a little, "unwitting"?

13

,

12/12/2007 00:54:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
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14

TommyKaye,

UK 12/12/2007 00:56:00

Oh dear AM2 more labour money stories maybe time to invade another country for a bit of deflection:

Tories Call for an Inquiry into Balls' Bung
Tories are calling for a Civil Service inquiry into the circumstances surrounding a 2005 payment of nearly £100,000 to Ed Balls from the already under statutory investigation Smith Institute. The payment was allegedly for his work on two pamphlets published by the Institute. Ex-employees confirm that he was never seen at the Institute's offices during his 8 month tenure despite being paid an unheard of monthly salary of over £10,000.

The Smith Institute was used as a slush fund for the Brownies. It functioned effectively as Gordon's policy and political secretariat in his long putsch for the premiership. Once Gordon Brown was installed in No. 10, Konrad Caulkett moved seamlessly from his executive position at the Smith Institute to become a Special Adviser in Downing Street. During Konrad's time at the supposedly non-political charity he assisted Ed Ball's 2005 election campaign in his Normanton constituency whilst still drawing a salary from the charity.
up for Ed Balls' generous payments package? Could it have been wealthy property developer John Milligan? Pictured here with Brown, he is a trustee of Gordon's charity, the Smith Institute, has given tens of thousands to the Labour party and even made a personal donation of £25,000 to Gordon's leadership coffers.

For some strange reason Ed Balls failed to properly declare his income from the Smith Institute or get the necessary Treasury clearance required for a Special Adviser before taking the sinecure. The rules were designed to prevent conflicts of interest. It also turned out that the Treasury had made undeclared payments to the Smith Institute, by mistake of course, which were only discovered when Guido succeeded in pushing the Charity Commissioners to investigate. They were the result of a mix-up according to yet another Smith Institute

15

Lianachan,

Highlands 12/12/2007 00:59:40

#1

Two links to The Scotsman - that well known, totally balanced and unbiased guide to the state of Scottish politics.

16

 Ayrshire Scot™,

12/12/2007 01:01:00

18. The idea of the Scottish Labour party, with their little "international" confusions recently, are an authority on international law is, to say the least, less than credible.

Are you suggesting there would be a legal bar to Scottish continued membership? The only legal precedent is Greenland, which WANTED to LEAVE the EU, but on gaining dominion status had to negotiate out from a basis of continued membership.

Please explain why Scotland would be different and how the EU, at a time of spiralling oil prices and middle East instability, would benefit from expulsion of 80% of it oil?

17

 Ayrshire Scot™,

12/12/2007 01:02:38

18. AM2 - could you point to the relevant part of the EU treaty where expulsion of a member state, or part of a member state, is an enumerated part or described process?

18

 Ayrshire Scot™,

12/12/2007 01:04:09

21 (where there is no material breach of human rights conditions of membership, of course - as Scottish Labour MSPs who may potentially face prison over illegal donations will be treated humanely, this should not be a concern)

19

,

12/12/2007 01:10:26
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20

 Ayrshire Scot™,

12/12/2007 01:18:09

23 AM2 - agreeing with the SNP are 2 Former Directors General of the Commission, a head of the EU Commission legal department, and one of the most esteemed experts on constitutional law. You omit of course Robin Cook, as Labour Foreign Secretary, who also agreed that Scotland would be a member.

Greenland is a close to a precedent as exists, and supports very strongly the view expressed by Ms Sturgeon.

You have ommitted Jackie Baillie and Wendy Alexander, noted experts in "international" law (and postage rates) in the anti list....

21

subrosa,

12/12/2007 01:18:39

I've decided all the unionists are concerned about is the money received from our oil. They have no interest as to whether we sink or swim otherwise. The rest of the arguments are just smoke and mirrors to keep the Scots in line with the requirements of the UK government.

Now AM2 don't start on about the oil will run out etc. It's not even running in Iraq and we're STILL in there putting our service personnel in extreme jeopardy just for the sake of greed.

22

 Ayrshire Scot™,

12/12/2007 01:19:17

21 Ayrshire Scot™

"There is no mechanism to eject a member state, but you're wrong to append “or part of a member state” as if it's in the same category"

Is there a mechanism to eject part of a member state or a successor state then? Please point to the EU treaty which describes this?

23

walter,

12/12/2007 01:25:06

The EU will make the decision on Scotland being a automatic member or having to apply and then negotiate membership.
Sturgeon does not have a clue what she is talking about she is waffling a heap of rubbish and the vast majority of comments that will be posted here will be the exact same.
Until such times as Scotland votes for independence and that does not look like it will happen at any time in the near future no one can say what the situation will be reference EU membership.
If and when and only when Scotland vote for independence will the EU even bother seriously looking at the situation.

24

Senga Jean,

Scotland 12/12/2007 01:29:47

Utter brainwashing. The EU are desperate to make sure resource rich states like Scotland are retained. I am not so sure about England however.

25

The Strategist,

12/12/2007 01:52:11

Of course there's the question as to whether Scotland would be better being a full member of the EU or being a "semi detached" member like Norway.

One of the reasons - I'm told by a Norwegian friend - that Norway has held off being a full member is that they get some form of exemption from the rules on State Aid. Here of course the civil service apply all EU rules to the letter whereas other full members seem to only adopt those rules that suit them and bend the other rules to suit their national interest.

Anyhow, I would hope that when it comes to it Scotland will hold a referendum on the issue.

26

a proud doonhamer,

12/12/2007 01:55:33

With all the oil and fish in Scotland, the EU would do better to accept Scotland and not the remnants of the UK. Resurrect the Auld Alliance.

27

Mercutio,

Falkirk 12/12/2007 02:11:03

#32 That is one alliance that did not benefit Scotland.

28

sjs,

Edinburgh 12/12/2007 02:14:19

If the EU were stupid enough to take Scotland out of the EU and make them re-apply then Scotland would simply join the European Economic Area - and the European Free Trade Association. These instiutions - including countries like Norway - allow countries to trade freely with Europe without being part of the European Union proper.

That way Scotland would get the benefit of trade with Europe without the downside of being bossed about by the EU. By doing this in fact, the EU risks LOSING Scotland from the EU altogether!! Because Scotland might decide it loves the EFTA and decide never to apply for the silly EU. Surely the eurocrats in Brussels are not stupid enough to lose part of the EU just because they'd want Scotland to go through the lengthy (it'd take years) process of re-applying?

Really what Salmond and Sturgeon MUST MUST MUST do is speak to the European Union and get a proper answer. ""We do not comment on hypothetical situations."" is not good enough, the EU should give Scotland a straight answer on what would happen if we became independent because it is VERY important and is actually damaging the cause for independence by not answering. Have the balls and owe up to it; or are you scared your own countries will fragment?

This is an unprecedented scenario, but for one area of the EU to suddenly become not an area of the EU just because of a slight change in the powers of the Scottish Parliament (i.e. complete fiscal powers and defence) is diabolical, and the rest of the EU and world would laugh out loud and ridicule the European Union for such stupid idiotic eurocracy.

29

JB2003,

12/12/2007 02:29:02

5 - the channel islands and the Isle of Mann are not part of the EU. They have a lesser relationship with the EU which I think entitles them to certain benefits (more akin to a trade treaty if I recall correctly by virtue of a protocol to the EC Treaty) but the big difference is that their people are not considered EU citizens and are not entitled to free movement of people and entitlement to work etc.

I think the bottom line is that Channel Islanders are entitled to live and work in the UK but can't do so in other EU countries.

30

Darryl Matheson,

Elgin, Morayshire 12/12/2007 02:36:39

Well it is fine for her to say that, but she is lying. She knows what she is saying is not correct.

31

LETS DISCUSS WENDYGATE....,

Because the Scotsman wants it buried 12/12/2007 02:37:44

How many times are they going to drag out this hoary old chestnut. It's been done to death over and over again on these boards. stop it already.

This "report" is about one thing.... and one thing only....... deflecting attention from WENDYGATE.

Crude tabloid stuff..... but it's a good measure of how low The Scotsman has sunk.

Dont let the Labourman suppress Wendygate.
Keep the fire burning here on their boards.

Poetic justice.

32

Royster,

12/12/2007 02:50:23

I'm sure Scotland would be allowed in but it wouldn't be automatic. This is SNP posturing. Oil would become a common European resource as with fishing now.

33

Royster,

12/12/2007 02:53:18

#32. Ah the Auld Alliance. Of course, the French have always been reliable allies as much as I love them.

34

MacAlba: The Coming Independence (c2007).,

12/12/2007 03:03:39

#1 AM2,
I see that, once again, you have contrived a fanciful and capricious body of statistics that reflect the truth as accurately as a piece of rubber reflects sunlight.

As is to be expected from the rabid unionist fraternity, the insecurity and unease that ensues from a decisive election defeat for New Labour emanates from every pore.

It is clear that you are hardly an advocate for the truth, but rather a Unionist, New Labour stooge who is bent on influencing the more ignorant among us to embrace a union that became obsolescent years ago.

#38 Royster,
I suppose that according to your logical interpretation, German-built cars are actually "common European" resources ? Come on, Matey!

35

The central scrutinizer,

SCOTLAND 12/12/2007 03:03:53

How childish,your not getting into our gang,and at the end of the day europe is becoming one big peice of sh#t anyway.

36

LETS DISCUSS WENDYGATE....,

Because the Scotsman wants it buried 12/12/2007 03:05:15

This report is just one more part of the Scotsman smokescreen to divert us from the real political issue of the day....WENDYGATE.

WENDYGATE..... WENDYGATE..... WENDYGATE......

Why is the Scotsman suppressing all discussion of the illegal fundraising activities of Wendy Alexander and the Scottish Labour Party???

The silence from the Scotsman on the biggest political scandal currently discrediting the Labour Party in Scotland and their leader Wendy Alexander is disgraceful. This is no less than partisan political activity in support of the Labour party by The Scotsman.

They have also been removing most posts criticising their suppression of Wendygate.

Labour are in meltdown over their illegal money deals and the Scottish Party is ripping itself apart internaly. Forget this nonsense of full support for Wendy.... just watch what's coming. Wendy is finished. The knives are out. There is no SNP mole feeding sensitive Labour documents to the press.... the leaks are coming from Wendys enemies within Scottish Labour. And she has many.

It's the biggest political news event currently on the go.... yet from The "Scotsman",..... silence......

37

Julian,

12/12/2007 03:09:20

#37 LETS DISCUSS WENDYGATE

You must be joking. This isn't about deflecting attention from Wendygate. This is all about Sturgeon trying to give credibility to the notion that we might become independent despite the fact only 28% support it. I bet when she picks up today's Scotsman she'll be more than happy to have attention on this issue rather than Wendygate.

38

MacAlba: The Coming Independence (c2007).,

12/12/2007 03:10:24

#42,
I have a pretty good idea that it's because they are in as thick as putty with the New Labour, unionist agenda.

Perhaps I'm too cynical. Although, when one reads the articles, it is quite easy to arrive at the above conclusion.

39

MacAlba: The Coming Independence (c2007).,

12/12/2007 03:16:18

By the way, Royster,
Why would the fate of Scotland's oil bother you? Considering that you live in England, and in your own words, "England does not need North Sea oil," why the concern on your part?

May I put it to you that England does, in fact, benefit considerably from the profits that emerge from the exploration and exploitation of the North Sea, and that it's resources have long provided a staple for the Westminster economy.

40

,

12/12/2007 03:18:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
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41

Julian,

12/12/2007 03:20:57

#45,

When exactly is the coming independence?

I seem to recall something about "free by '93"

I assume they must have been talking about 2093'-)

42

Exiled Scot,

New York 12/12/2007 03:21:01

Using this logic wouldn't the rump UK also have to re-negotiate entry? It is independence from the UK that is under question not from the EU. BTW I don't remember Yugoslavia being part of the EU so I don't follow that reference.

43

Julian,

12/12/2007 03:22:12

#24 Gnasher

I doubt we could form a union with Slovakia since they are already part of the EU.

Serbia perhaps?

44

Edward,

12/12/2007 03:23:42

#36 Darryl Matheson, Elgin, Morayshire
Why dont you come up with some words of wisdom and state why Scotland would not automatically become a member of the EU
Remeber try and stick to facts and not hear say!
Please dont quote either Labour politicians who are just a bunch of crooks anyway, nor quote some idiot Maltese polician who is clueless on constitutional matters (even he admited that)
Clocks ticking

45

Happyhibee1956,

Southampton 12/12/2007 03:24:43

AM2

Do you actually do any work over there or does your houseboy do it all for you?

All I ever seem to to see is your right wing drivel on any subject that takes your fancy, whether you know what your talking about or not.

46

MacAlba: The Coming Independence (c2007).,

12/12/2007 03:26:48

#47,
Although I like your sense of humour, I suspect that you will receive something of a rude shock when the independence referendum is held - currently proposed for some time between 2009-10.

You may respond flippantly now, but when the majority of our population votes for independence as they voted for the SNP just recently, I further suspect that there will be a lot of sour expressions on the faces of unionists everywhere!

A real Kodak moment it will be, too!

47

Edward,

12/12/2007 03:27:28

#42 LETS DISCUSS WENDYGATE
I understand the latest count on illegal cheques to the Scottish Labour party is now at TWO
Funily enough squeaky Wendy denies knowing about them, despite the fact that her husband is known to have pointed out the questionable payments to her at the time
Think its about time Wendy was taking in for questioning

48

MacAlba: The Coming Independence (c2007).,

12/12/2007 03:38:25

Perhaps Wendy should be dismissed from her echelon altogether. Perhaps then, she will be forced to apply for welfare payments, and hence experience the anguish and anxiety that hundreds of thousands of others have experienced under the social security policies that have been endorsed by New Labour over the years.

It seems that right-wingers like Bendy all over the place are either getting, or about to get their long-awaited come-uppance.

49

Auckland Arab2,

12/12/2007 03:48:01

This whole EU thing is a non story. All the former Soviet colonies are being ushered in, Malta, Cyprus et al; and The Hootsmon is trying to create a story out of Scotland not being able to join, again. Yawn. Automatic or not no sane person can seriously argue that this will be an issue when the time comes.

50

Julian,

12/12/2007 03:50:53

#52 Macalba

Thanks for that, and I'll have my Kodak ready.

One small innaccuracy. The majority of our population did not vote SNP. Of those that voted, only 39% voted SNP, so by your logic that will be the referendum result as well.

Unfortunately, it's not as good as that. Only about 65% who voted SNP actually support independence and the latest polls show support for independence at it's lowest ebb (28%) for 10 years.

Sorry to say that the reason Salmond is in Bute house is that he has a strong, likeable personality. But more important was the disillusionment with MacConnell/Blair/New Labour.

51

Julian,

12/12/2007 03:54:16

#55 Auckland Arab.

I agree, it would be a non-issue. However, if I were Nicola Sturgeon I would be dancing with glee at today's headline as it gives credibility to those who want to break from the union. It is being given the spotlight as if it is something that is going to happen.

52

scotleag,

12/12/2007 03:55:47

The SNP ranters seem to forget that all member states have to sign up to EU treaties.

The SNP opposes the Lisbon treaty. It wants a referendum on it and a rejection of it. This policy was adopted UNANIMOUSLY at the recent SNP conference.

Ergo an independent Scotland which rejected the Lisbon treaty would be ineligible for EU membership.

Nicola Sturgeon knows this.

Darryl Matheson at 36 is correct. Sturgeon is lying.

53

scotleag,

12/12/2007 04:00:43

56 Julian. The SNP didn't get 39%. They actually polled just under 33% in the constituencies and 31% in the 'additional members' vote

54

Ian MacBeth,

12/12/2007 04:03:13

'In September, Mr Borg stated unequivocally that in his view,'

Yes Peter, in an interview with this newspaper. He also said that he was not an expert on EC law and it was only his uneducated opinion.

Why didn't you write that in your article?

55

williamx,

delta,Canada 12/12/2007 05:15:37

The EU party in Brussels would be too rich for Scotland. Keep your independence and do bilateral trade deals with individual nations like the Swedes,Norway and Denmark. Do you still want to be throwing away perfectly good fish under EU rules?

56

EWB,

UK 12/12/2007 05:42:14

An independent Scotland in the EU is an illusion as 70% of all UK legislation already comes from Brussels. The present Union (since 1707) is being overwhelmed by the European Union.

Scotland will have to accept the CFP just as the UK had to accept existing EEC legislation back in 1973.

As the EU becomes the federal state of Europe as a consequence of the ratification of the EU Reform Treaty, so Scotland will have to concede that her oil will become an EU resource.

#61's suggestion is better. Scotland should model herself on Norway, not Ireland or Denmark, and become an associate member. Her fish and her oil would be under her control and she could trade with the EU.

The alternative for Scotland in the federal EU superstate will be to become "the best wee region in Europe". You cannot be in the EU and independent at the same time.

57

Auckland Arab2,

12/12/2007 06:12:30

#62

Nice to see the isolationists out in force. Whatever your British national views they certainly don't apply to Scotland. Better if you and the rest of the Europhobes down south did us a favour and left the EU.

58

,

12/12/2007 06:55:36
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59

McNasty,

Edinburgh 12/12/2007 07:14:47

Julian

If you stick a couple of fingers down your throat you will feel an awful lot better.

60

Queen D,

Glasgow 12/12/2007 07:30:59

Labour donation stories in the Telegraph,have a look!

61

Royster,

12/12/2007 07:31:57

This is a total non-issue. a) Nicola Sturgeon is a waste of space b) Independence is still pie-in-the-sky (actually better make that 3 pies just for Salmond) and c) even if Scotland did have to apply as an independent country, its application procedure would probably amount to little more than a formality ie "Describe in 500 words or less why you wish to be a member of the EU."

62

eddylongshanks,

12/12/2007 07:36:57

lol, so you get toyr independence by leaving the UK to immediately hand over sovereignty to the EU !! Is that because they will make up the loss of the Barnett cash ?

63

conservative,

Fife 12/12/2007 07:43:36

It doesn't matter anyway. Independence will never happen because most people (over 75% at the last count) are opposed to it. Once the Labour backlash has died down things will get back to normal and the SNP will go back to being another protest party like the Greens.

64

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 12/12/2007 07:47:21

While it's all very well the SNP saying we'll get in to Europe autommatically - isn't that up to Europe and surely until some with authority from Europe actually says one way or the other, is this actually worth debating?

Parties in Scotland can argue all they like over this - it means nothing.

65

Nick_Byrne,

Glasgow 12/12/2007 07:48:56

Even if it weren't automatic - I doubt it would take long for them to join as Royster says - "Describe in 500 words or less why you wish to be a member of the EU."

Marks off for poor spelling and grammar.

66

Stanley Unwin,

Jackies Comb Over ate my Hamster 12/12/2007 07:49:59

JB's dis-qualifications.

Born Hong Kong.
Went to private school.
Was a social worker.


Scotland should 'know its place'.

67

John S,

12/12/2007 07:52:30

We are already citizens of the EU and by default via the UK, Scotland is also party to the existing agreements and treaties.
It doesn't matter what the SNP say about the Lisbon Treaty if the UK Government plus the other 26 EU countries accept this treaty it will be law and merge into the existing agreements and treaties.
The EU will find it simplier to let the UK keep the name and Scotland to become another country within the EU and as long as both accept the existing agreements and treaties up until the time of their application this would mean automatic entry for both the UK and Scotland.

68

Royster,

12/12/2007 07:53:09

#66. You have a look. We're reading The Scotsman.

69

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 12/12/2007 07:56:32

Well if when we leave we are not in the EU then we will have to detain all those all those European Fishing Vessels that would now be fishing illegally in Scottish waters. Not to mention all the EU nationals working in Scotland who would now be illegal migrants. Don't let any tell you the EU would deny Scotland full membership from the outset.

70

eddylongshanks,

12/12/2007 08:04:26

#75 - how will you do that without a Navy ?

71

BMeister,

12/12/2007 08:11:19

#76 And why wouldn't we have a navy?

72

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 12/12/2007 08:21:45

Being totally ignorant of the law and having read all the above is it not the case that if the UK broke up all the bits would technically no longer be in the EU ?

73

eddylongshanks,

12/12/2007 08:21:52

Just wondered who would man it if you get your % of ships - I cant see the SNP allowing English sailors to be the dominant personnel on a ship, be a bit like the French manning the RN ?

74

Iain fae Elgin,

London 12/12/2007 08:22:49

"She said that she could not find credible the argument that the EU would not "enthusiastically" want to have "oil rich" Scotland as a member."

I may have been an SNP voter all my life, but short term blinkered attitudes like this make me despair.
The SNP unfortunately seem to think that oil is an infinite resource. Come up with some long term financial plans that DONT involve the decreasing revenue from oil please.....

75

Roy,

12/12/2007 08:24:33

I've asked this question before. If Belgium splits, would both Flanders and Walloonia be expelled from the EU? This would leave the European parliament sited in a non-EU country. Would the Eurocrats then be served eviction orders?

76

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 12/12/2007 08:25:25

#76 I seem to recall a lot of Trident armed subs in Holy Loch. I am sure eddy that the English will happy to trade 5 or 6 Destroyers for them.

77

eddylongshanks,

12/12/2007 08:26:46

#82 they would be moved to the Thames just outside Westminster

78

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 12/12/2007 08:30:43

#83 The lads at the Finsbury Park Mosque are overjoyed at your suggestion.

79

mr angry,

ayrshire 12/12/2007 08:31:39

#67 Royster you are a buffoon

80

Alex.,

12/12/2007 08:44:36

If Scotland is not part of the EU the EU fishing boats would have no right to fish in Scottish waters. Funny how things can cut both ways. The Spanish would hate it and push Scotland's case. You would think an EU fisheries commissioner would have thought of that. Not that one man makes the decision.

81

Pugsley,

12/12/2007 08:44:48

Just wait til Belgium splits into three (as is a more of an immediate possibilty right now than Scottish independence) and see if the newly independent Brussels Region, gets kicked out of the EU. I think not !

82

Pugsley,

12/12/2007 08:47:01

And whilst I'm at it - why is independence OK for Kosova (backed by USA and the EU) but not for Scotland ?

83

Mercutio,

Falkirk 12/12/2007 08:47:47

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

84

BMeister,

12/12/2007 08:48:01

79 eddLS

and likewise I can't imagine the Scots sailors remaining in the English Navy, so they could man them.

85

Rob,

12/12/2007 08:49:19

Ms Sturgeon clearly harbours ambitions of emulating Mrs Thatcher swinging her handbag around in Brussels. Does she really think anyone will bother to listen to her?

All she would get from Brussels is a bill!

Clearly not much news today to carry this drivel.

86

Paul Morant,

12/12/2007 08:49:52

Scotland can only become independent by agreement with the rest of the UK via the Parliament at Westminster.
Any such agreement would have to resolve the issue of EU membership of Scotland and of the new UK, and these would have to be negotiated with the EU before independence.
Otherwise Scotland would be acting unilaterally and illegally, precedents being Rhodesia and the United States.

87

Alex.,

12/12/2007 08:53:23

#76. Do you really think Scotland won't be entitled to its share of UK assets such as the navy? You obviously think England owns everything. Wrong! And believe me, enough Scots are in the navy to man a Scottish navy.

88

bornNbred,

Perth 12/12/2007 08:54:35

The question should not be "will we get automatic entry to the EU?"

The questions hould be "Do we want to be in the EU?"

It like many outdated useless institutions fails to be truly representative and is to the majority of nations harmful to their interests. There seems to be a common opinion that if it harms everyone a little bit it must be ok! What tosh!!

See
http://www.scottishenterpriseparty.org/

for a more appropriate suggestion of our place in the union!!

89

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

12/12/2007 08:54:40

who cares, its a total no brainer for Scotland to become independent, tell me when its going to happen and my tribe will move south, it will be like the highland clearances again only on a bigger scale who would want to stay in a place full of tartan clad nutters talking about when we had oil, and how cheap whisky is without paying the Chancers tax, no thanks not for me, scotland could well become a muslim state when we all move out!

90

Pugsley,

12/12/2007 08:55:25

Sorry - didnt see #81 ! But if Belgium did spilit it would be into three new states - four if you count the German-speaking area of Eupen-Malmedy.

91

Bobo,

12/12/2007 08:58:24

Oh no, it's like the 3rd of May never happened. These ludicrous scare stories are starting to appear on an almost daily basis.


We'll be back to getting a daily dose of the chaos, conflict and whatever the other c was that Wendy was always banging on about in the election campaign if this carries on much longer.

Really, how can any serious newspaper in Scotland really believe that our country would be expelled from the EU if we left the UK - for goodness sake grow up and treat your readers with some respect.

92

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 12/12/2007 08:59:48

#94 Do you mean "become a muslim state" like England?

93

Catina,

12/12/2007 09:00:24

Independence would be the worst possible thing for your ecomony. Why on earth would you want to lose the power of the pound??

94

interstellarmince,

outer-space 12/12/2007 09:04:13

Independence NOW! AM2 - move to England.

95

pppink,

12/12/2007 09:10:29

What a bonnie clever lassie she is. Makes the ugly sisters look and sound gross.

The question is rather would Scotland accept the EU's offers. Although it would all have been decided before in a vestry in Linlithgo with no Englishmen present.

I'm off to the Telegraph to read about WENDYGATE
;-))))

96

Proud2Be,

Scotland 12/12/2007 09:11:10

My question is simple:

why are we talking about this now? Lets get independence first and then decide if the EU is worthy of our patronage?

seems we are putting the cart before the horse!

Also if, as some on this thread believe, we have not a hope of getting our freedom from English rule why are our ministers wasting our time discussing it?

97

Bad Yin,

All at Sea 12/12/2007 09:12:03

The EU would accept Bangladesh as a member if it could get away with it. Who says we want to be members? I think we need to vote on this.

98

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 12/12/2007 09:13:13

#98 The Pound was at 1.48 Euros 12 months ago, it is now at 1.39. Hardly what I would call strength.

99

pppink,

12/12/2007 09:18:12

And before I go - please don't let the 'him' divert things - just ignore him, he is your arch troll.

Just posts stuff to get noticed and divert from legitimate discussion and invite argument to feed his ego. Classic troll stuff.

100

Sgritheall,

Switzerland 12/12/2007 09:19:06

Many contributors seem to think that the EU ought to join Scotland - and be grateful it it is accepted!

101

Catina,

12/12/2007 09:21:36

still stronger than the euro isnt it?

102

gus1940,

12/12/2007 09:23:28

#98

The Euro seems to be doing not bad on the international currency markets.

103

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 12/12/2007 09:23:34

#98 Besides Scotland does not have real pounds anyway just try and change your Bank of Scotland notes overseas and see what rate you get.

104

BMeister,

12/12/2007 09:24:33

#96 Bobo

'chaos, conflict and whatever the other c was that Wendy was always banging on about in the election campaign'

Was it cheques?