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Teacher faces ruin after assault case

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Published Date: 19 December 2008
A TEACHER'S career lies in tatters today after he was convicted of assaulting two students who were behind a prolonged campaign of abuse against him.
However, a sheriff sympathised with Mike Barile, 51, who he said had suffered "extreme abuse" from the schoolboys, who had acted "disgracefully".

Barile's patience finally snapped when pupils at Lawside Academy in Dundee called him a "walking peni
s" and told him to "f*** off". The maths teacher grabbed one of them by the lapels and threatened to throw him through the blackboard. He also pinned a 15-year-old boy against a wall.

Barile, an associate director of Dundee United Football Club, was acquitted on two other charges of assaulting pupils. A further assault charge was not proven.

While he was found to be technically guilty of two assault charges, Sheriff Charles Macnair said: "Both of these assaults were minor and, had it not been for your position as a teacher, I do not consider that you would have been subject to criminal prosecution.

"I do accept that, on the two occasions, you were subject to extreme abuse by the two young men. The force you used was minimal and I take into account that this is going to have a very serious impact on your future career as a teacher.

"Having regard to the behaviour of the two complainants leading up to the offences, and your previously good record, at least since 1999, I consider that it would be appropriate to deal with you by way of admonition."

During the trial, one of the pupils told how Barile had grabbed him by his jumper and threatened to throw him "through the blackboard".

The second assault came as a student tried to leave class, despite Barile asking him to stay behind. As the boy went to walk out of the door, Barile put his forearm across the boy's chest and pinned him against a wall.

Gavin Callaghan, prosecuting, said teachers had no right to use physical force to control pupils. "Disgraceful conduct by pupils does in no way justify the conduct by the accused in this case," he said.

"The actions of the accused were grossly disproportionate and amounted to assault."

However, teachers' unions last night described some classrooms as "horrific" places where pupils conspired to goad staff into wrongdoing.

Ann Ballinger, president of the Scottish Secondary Teachers' Association, said: "There are situations in some schools where there are definitely difficulties and violent situations, but, equally, there are schools where this never happens.

"Young people are very aware of their rights these days and if you get a pupil who has a tendency towards violence, they will know what they are entitled to and they will say 'you can't touch me because I have rights'.

"I would say there is a small minority of situations where violence is used against a teacher.

"It is horrific, because it is violence in the workplace and there is nothing you can do. You can't even put your hand up to defend yourself, because you could be accused of violence. If a group of pupils go against a particular member of staff, they can make their life an absolute misery and that can escalate."

Hugh Reilly, a secondary school teacher in Glasgow, said classroom teachers were often frustrated by the lack of action against violent pupils by school managements.

He said: "The kids pick up on the fact that not much happens to them. The majority know school managements typically go for a softly-softly approach and the kids don't see a consequence of their actions.

"It is much easier for younger teachers to be involved in this sort of thing, but you just learn you cannot control the way these kids behave."

He said the kind of behaviour experienced by Barile had always occurred, but was still rare.

"It's more the low-level stuff, like constant chatter, which is a growing problem," he said. "Years ago, the belt would have stopped that.

"One of the dangers is when you are getting closer to pupils in that way, some can see that as a teacher being a soft touch. Lots of us could be in his position."

Physical attacks on teachers and pupils in Scotland rose by 2.2 per cent between 2005-6 and 2006-7.

Any teacher convicted of a criminal offence is automatically referred to the profession's regulator, the General Teaching Council for Scotland.

They will then be subject to a hearing on whether they retain their status or are struck off the teaching register. Only in very rare circumstances would a convicted teacher be able to stay on the register. And that is very unlikely in a case of a teacher found guilty of assaulting pupils.

A spokesman for the teaching council said: "Where teachers are convicted with a criminal offence, this is reported to the council and considered within the disciplinary process."

In 2006, Barile was suspended from his teaching post at Madras College in St Andrews amid allegations of assaulting a pupil.

The suspension was later lifted after claims that Barile, of Strathmartine Road, Dundee, had been attacked by the pupil.

The assaults at the Dundee school took place in October last year and in May. Barile's career at the school – it has since been merged with St Saviour's High to become St Paul's Academy – appears to be over.

Andrew Gibb, defending, said: "The consequences are really rather serious. He is currently suspended and no doubt that will remain so."

A spokesman for Dundee City Council's education department said: "This teacher is currently suspended and Dundee City Council will now take appropriate action within its agreed procedures for dealing with disciplinary matters."

Last night, Barile said he could not comment, as he was planning to appeal the conviction.

This is not the first time there have been reports of violence in Dundee schools.

In September 2007, Linda Ross, the deputy head of Sidlaw View Primary, was suspended after her husband leaked reports of drug addicts wandering the corridors and of fights between parents.


'After a verdict like that, it will be open season for them, knowing they can bait a teacher'

Emily Pykett

THEY smirked when asked if they had respect for their teachers.

"A bunch of cocky classroom clowns" is how one bystander described the pupils giving evidence at Dundee Sheriff Court.

They knew their "rights", and they knew that by sitting in Dundee Sheriff Court giving evidence against their teacher, they had scored a victory of sorts.

All the teenagers had a defiant demeanour as they told how they finally goaded Mike Barile into action when he grabbed a pupil by his lapels and threatened to throw him through a blackboard.

One 15-year-old – who had previously been suspended for assaulting Barile in the school library – admitted he had been "messing around" and "showing off" in the class, did not do what he was told and was abusive to the teacher.

He said he did not respect teachers and admitted he had been playing to the gallery, with most of the class laughing and enjoying the "intimidation" to which Barile was subjected.

The court heard how Barile tried to write a diary of his ordeal but the pupils would snatch the paper off his desk. They argued it was "their right'" to see what he was writing

Some would watch videos on YouTube when they should have been doing maths.

They would refuse to go to their desks when they were asked to work, and routinely shout abuse at him such as "walking penis", "beast" and "bam".

One pupil would complain it was too hot, and, when Barile opened a window, the pupil would complain it was too cold.

But, as the cross-examining grew tougher, they became anxious and changed their stories.

Barile, 51, pleaded not guilty to terrorising his pupils by grabbing them by their school uniforms, pushing them off their chairs and pinning them against walls.

After he was convicted, however, community leaders said they feared the pupils had been ganging up on the teacher.

One Dundee city councillor, who asked not to be named, said: "It is almost as if they were hunting in a pack.

"After a verdict like that, I would be worried about the pupils now going back and saying, 'Who's next?'

"It will be open season for them now, knowing they can bait a teacher like that.

"It's not like that in most schools in Dundee but there is the odd occasion that they go all-out to get a teacher. To me, it looks like they were just out to get him."

Judith Gillespie, of the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, agreed that pupils are capable of targeting teachers they feel are vulnerable.

"Yes, there are pupils who provoke and there are definitely pupils who do sense when people are not secure and exploit it," she said.

"But the bottom line is the teacher should never allow themselves to be goaded so they step out of their professional role and neither should a teacher feel frightened to say that they can't manage a class. And if they cannot manage a class then steps should be taken to help them through it."

Mrs Gillespie added: "Maybe teaching as a profession is just not for him.

"But I do not believe all this abuse happened in just the one lesson.

"It must have been prolonged, and therefore he should have been able to seek support for what was going on."


Analysis: Problem of discipline is getting worse

Ronnie Smith

ALTHOUGH we do not comment on individual cases, the issue of pupil indiscipline is seldom far below the surface of the educational debate in Scotland. Teachers continue to regard how to solve it as a top priority.

Of course, there has never been a time when the behaviour of children and young people did not exercise the minds of teachers. However, the evidence is that the problem is getting worse and consuming more and more of each teacher's time.

Ask any teacher across Scotland about the most challenging part of their job, and you will receive near unanimity on the answer – the daily grind of maintaining effective discipline in the classroom.

Persistent, low-level indiscipline, the most common problem in Scotland's schools, is extremely frustrating for teachers and also for the vast majority of pupils who are keen to learn.

The actions of a small minority of pupils, who selfishly disrupt classes with poor behaviour, can have a hugely damaging effect on the learning environment of fellow pupils.

This is an issue which must be addressed, if we are to deliver the best learning environment and the quality of education our children deserve.

Schools reflect societal change, and many of the children we teach have increasingly complex lives in which they often communicate their personal difficulties through challenging behaviour.

The policies of inclusion and the presumption of "mainstreaming" have also presented new challenges for teachers.

These require teachers to be more reflective about teaching and learning, but also call into question the level of support they receive from school managements, local authorities and the Scottish Government.

Teachers should have the right to teach and young people have the right to learn in a safe, disciplined environment, and it is the responsibility of the Scottish Government and local authorities to meet those requirements. The Scottish Government should provide, as a matter of urgency, additional specialist behaviour facilities for children and young people displaying particularly challenging behaviour.

The EIS (the Educational Institute of Scotland] remains firm in its strong commitment to the reduction in class sizes in all sectors as an important means of supporting better behaviour and discipline.

Current government targets to reduce class sizes are not being met by local authorities, and this is compounding the challenges of maintaining classroom discipline.

Headteachers should continue to have the right to use exclusion where appropriate. The EIS acknowledges alternatives to exclusion and the work being carried out in promoting and funding innovative solutions. However, the impact of such innovations may take many years to become real or apparent, which is of little comfort to the teacher facing daily disruption in the classroom.

There are no simple solutions, no "silver bullet" which will solve all of the problems of pupil indiscipline.

Where schools have had success in tackling indiscipline, they have had clear and concise discipline policies which have been consistently applied.

It is these principles we wish to see applied at local authority and school level and, combined with additional resources, we believe we can reach our common goal of achieving better behaviour in all of our schools.

• Ronnie Smith is general- secretary of the EIS, Scotland's largest teaching union.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 December 2008 7:48 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Teaching
 
1

,

18/12/2008 23:57:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
2

Lurking from home,

19/12/2008 00:05:48
By the way, a survey of the parents in "my school" showed 93% support for this very simple and cost effective dress code but that was over-ruled.

The headmistress ( who has been promoted again and again since) vehemently supported the City's brown-nosing Solicitor.

And, to think, the Masons get a bad name!

3

Forward not Back,

19/12/2008 00:07:11
It is sad that it takes a court case to show the reality of feral children in classrooms.

Maybe the forthcoming recession will show these numbskulls the value of an education in the global economy in which we now reside. All those wonderful gadgets that they possess in this consumer society have to be earned, they are not theirs by 'right'. Hopefully, the tanking in the pound will force their prices up and make them realise that they have to 'earn' things and to do that they need skills and learning.

Mind you, they'll probably turn to thieving instead. Any wonder the UK is up the spout?
4

Sgt. Rock,

Ottawa 19/12/2008 00:17:29
I remember when I was in school behavior such as demonstrated by these 2 boys was quickly met with a trip to the front office and followed up with a sound paddling. If parents will not raise there little monsters to behave, the school should return to good old corporal punishment.
5

subrosa,

19/12/2008 00:22:38
How sad this teacher's career has ended in such a way.

How sad parents have no control of their children and the child's behaviour spills over into the classroom.

As some have said in the article, "who's next." These uncivilised dross won't stop now - they've a licence to continue.
6

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 19/12/2008 00:24:20
The harassed-beyond-endurance teacher was then dragged through a Dundee Court.

In the land of D C Thompson - a famous cross-dresser, prevert and publisher of comics and newspapers - what can you expect?

Just add aspartamine, a typical diet, today's television and the unique tabloid speech of a contemporary Dundee schoolkid - rather than sympathy, respect, for trying to impart any mathematics at all in this worse environment than Scott's Antarctica - we get this solemn po-faced pronouncement from the EIS, saying absolutely nothing; nothing at all.
7

Tracker,

19/12/2008 00:26:02
This teacher was goaded and he cracked. The brutal truth is that teachers who crack in this way should not be teaching children. What would the situation be like in schools if teachers who cracked like this were granted immunity from prosecution because they were goaded?
8

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 19/12/2008 00:26:46
Divide and rule; those in power want the vast majority of the population to live in fear - of their neighbours, their workmates, the police, their own children. The more insane things become for ordinary people - the more secure those in power become; the more divided the society becomes - the more power those in power acheive. So - teachers are afraid of children, the courts, the police, losing their jobs, being slandered as a paedophile. This poor man grabed a kids lapels; he didnt thump him, beat him or abuse hime. But his career will be ruined, his family broken, his finances destroyed. The lawyers and the party apparatchiks will be warming their claret tonight.
9

FerryPort,

19/12/2008 00:35:19
I know Michael personally when I was growing up. I remember him as the most pleasant and smiling, friendly boy, a friend of my older brother and around a lot. I am so, so sad to read this and I wish him the best. I work with behaviourally challenged young peopole and see the gang bullying culture on a daily basis. These boys need help. I wish Michael all the best. The management did not offer him the assistance he needed. You shouldn't have to look for help. It should be recognised someone is in trouble. A team. Michael, keep your head up. I hope Dundee City Council take heed and care of you.
10

Forward not Back,

19/12/2008 00:39:09
#7 - yes, you are correct. He wasn't cut out for teaching in today's world.

However, few people are whenever the pupils act like this.
11

FerryPort,

19/12/2008 00:58:39
#7 Tracker
What is your job?
12

muppetfinder,

19/12/2008 02:10:23
"What would the situation be like in schools if teachers who cracked like this were granted immunity from prosecution because they were goaded?" a lot better. the scum that inhabit our schools are uncontrollable the parents don't want to know and all the politically correct bleat until some thug mugs them then suddenly they want action. Teachers have a difficult job controlling evil nasty pieces of effluent while society protects these potential criminals.
"Gavin Callaghan, prosecuting, said teachers had no right to use physical force to control pupils." another out of touch well paid government pensioned muppet. when he meet them on a dark night no doubt they'll go away when he asks them.
13

Shamus,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 02:31:01
Personally I would promote the teacher and kick the shirt out of the grassing wimp scumbag pupils.Perhaps they would like to introduce themselves to me.Please.
14

Embra Don,

19/12/2008 02:38:32
#4 Sgt. Rock, Ottawa

I would have been belted for not knowing the difference between "there" and "their" - in fact I probably was. ;-)
15

I can see for miles,

19/12/2008 02:47:07
He should have thrown them oot the windae and said they fell
16

Mallory,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 03:10:49
Lets support this teacher with a collective "Well Done". Time for the silent majority to stand up against the politicly correct loons who have infested the teaching business since the 1960s. Child centred education my a*se! Time to bring back the tawse and a renewed respect for authority.
17

Dragonhead,

Dalian,China 19/12/2008 03:53:10
At 0955am the other morning, we were passing a primary school here in Dalian,on the way to the shops. In the school yard were all the students and teachers doing PT/Taiji. The teachers in ordinary civilian dress, the pupils all in smart blue and white tracksuit style school uniforms.All were performing physical exercise (teachers included)to music.
What a pleasant change from the above article. In China, teachers are still respected. Pupils behave or they will be punished at school and at home. The deterrent works, no doubt about it!
It is of course the students' right to make everyones life misery.To lie and ruin good peoples lives. China where the day to day activities of life carry on in an environment of common sense and sanity.
18

jbmck,

Brisbane, Australia 19/12/2008 03:57:04
In my day these thugs would be given a good dose of the strap and then expelled.They don't deserve an education. Maybe all these bleeding hearts should spend some time in a classroom and see what teachers have to put up with from such as these.
19

nuada mor,

Hamilton 19/12/2008 04:13:53
Its about time we declared political correctness dead, and returned the age of sanity. These two spoiled brats need five of the best on each hand in front of the class, then sent home with a letter to inform the 'parents' that their lil treasures are bounced until they can prove that they are able and willing to discipline their offspring.
As a society we are only obliged to provide an education to those willing to accept it. those who don't.... boot them out..... nuff said....
20

Phillip,

19/12/2008 04:23:30
What an absolute travesty. The teacher deserves a medal, a promotion and a raise.

The obnoxious children deserve a good paddling; better yet, a good canning. Beat them hard enough that it will leave welts and be uncomfortable to sit for days so that they'll remember what happens when they misbehave.

I remember as a child being paddled by my headmaster at an American private school. My father was called in and told of my behavior and of the punishment. What was my father's response? To declare that the punishment hadn't been strong enough and to give me a second round of paddling. I've grown up to be a well-paid professional, with a healthy respect for law and order, and a well-balanced psyche. I was a better man for having been disciplined and shown the limits for civilized behavior.

Children now are barely better than animals.
21

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 19/12/2008 04:59:55
The students should be expelled, not so much for goading the teacher into violence, but for robbing the other students of an opportunity to learn.

If they want to behave like feral cats, throw them out. Let them stay home all day and drive their parents crazy.

They should however be given given the opportunity to continue their studies through distance learning.

With a computer at home and a web cam in the classroom they can still continue studying.

And if they apply themselves at learning, at some future date when they are prepared to behave themselves then they can be considered for readmission into class.
22

Stewart_in_Oz,

Alexandra Hills 19/12/2008 05:16:56
#15 Shamus. Get in Line.
#13 Ferry Port. They don't have jobs on Kaypax or the surrounding Galaxies. All the children are born so smart they don't even have to go to 'school' Ask Tracker. He'll confirm this from experience.
Bring back the Tawse (or the Birch).
True Story.
My best friend,sadly deceased, from Montrose Academy days got a job as a Science teacher in a school in Dundee in the late 60's in one of the 'rough areas' He had several members of one of the local gangs in his class. Their behaviour was such that he did precisely what this teacher did. He picked up the gang leader by his jacket lapels and told him that if he didn't behave, he would bounce him off every wall in the class room and he was strong enough to do it. The class settled down. The gang members behaved and the leader became a model pupil and a friend of my mate. If anybody wants, I could supply more detail.
However, that was before 'the rights of the child' convention that enables the tail to wag the dog.
My wife was the supervisor of one of the local After- School Childcare Centres in the late 90's. However, she gave it up and went nursing, having become tired of smart 6 and 7 year old brats teling her they didn't need to do what she told them. They knew their rights.
What a society we have created.
23

Harry Truscot,

Greenhithe 19/12/2008 05:38:42
Ferryport #9 unwittingly identified much of the root cause of cases like this when he/she remarked "these boys need help". Help to do what ? Enjoy the subsidised life of moronic parasites who will doubtless spend the rest of their days costing the rest of us time and money ? I think not. They sound as though they'll manage that quite well thank you very much. Is there any hope that as a society we'll ever get some reality back. That this prosecution went ahead says much about the solidly constructed approval and support system which society's dross and scum now enjoy, an artificial utopian set of ideals which reward sloth, stupidity, laziness and supports amoral wasters and trash like the vacuous morins in this case. Who'll be paying for their behaviour in ten years time I wonder ?
24

drunken proffet,

Tassy 19/12/2008 05:42:18
It should be pointed out that kids in the fifties and sixties had the same attitude as present day pupils, we were always trying to push the limit. However the limit was re-inforced by the teachers, the police and the family. You do not have that now a days, there is no limit, "do what you will" is the new mantra. I believe that the Satanists also have a claim on this. So you now have a small percentage of children who go through the system and onto the dole or prison, and the government can do nothing about it. I sympathise with the Sheriff, if he belongs to the older generation, being unable to send the pupils to Borstal for a few months must be extremely frustrating.
25

The Jannie,

Out there, watching 19/12/2008 06:41:10
This teacher saw the usual level of support - it's not just Dundee. The pc squad - so many of them failed teachers - make asinine rules then the current bunch of "managers" pay lip service to them while crossing their fingers that they don't get caught in the crossfire.

Here we content ourselves with the thought that these sociopathic scum take their parent-supported attitudes into an industrial workplace where they'll be kicked out of them in the first week.
26

Isla Valassie,

19/12/2008 06:53:07
#7 You are a kn0b! So if your colleagues at work go about systematically harrassing, bullying, goading you to the point of breakdown, this then means that you shouldn't be in your job?
It is about time CCTV was introduced into the classrooms. This way the parents can be shown just what their little darlings get up to at school. For the PC brigade out there, not only would it protect the rights of employees, it would also protect the rights of the little sh'ts - I mean darlings!
27

,

19/12/2008 06:54:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
28

drunken proffet,

Tassy 19/12/2008 07:08:56
#29 That is the solution, the only problem is what to do with them when you catch them. I would apply to the Animal Rights Society, there are far too many animals used in laboratory experiments when there may be an alternative.
29

John Cameron,

St Andrews 19/12/2008 07:16:30
It is scum like these brats who are making it impossible to recruit teachers into the state schools. How is it possible for anyone to teach pupils if they have no powers of discipline, no backing from a supine headmaster, useless local educational services, and a criminal prosecution service which will waste public time and money bringing such a ludicrous case to court. Someone wrote above that it was now open season on state school teachers. Absolutely. How can our politicians be surprised that parents in the most straightened circumstances will move heaven and earth to send their kids to a private school? And of course, Gordon Brown really helped them by killing assisted places.
30

laoban,

borders 19/12/2008 07:31:17

Send them home to parents and let them discipline,and if it re occurs , expel them and put them on the street.
Rights should protect abuse..doesn't this go both ways...? Also rights like freedom of speech, etc
should not protect you if you threaten or violate the rights of others..

What does Philip Rycroft, Scottish Executive in Charge of Education have to say on the issue...?
31

Madbagpypr,

STEORNABHAGH,LEODHAS,NA h-EILEAN SIAR 19/12/2008 07:34:10
It's absolutely wrong to prosecute a teacher who is trying to keep order in a classroom especially now. My entire time at school I only mouthed off once and that was after my teacher used profanity in addressing me after I smacked his son around. I should add his son was two years older and quite a bit larger than I and I was defending my little brother. They SHOULD have punishment in school like when I was a lad. They wouldn't think twice about paddling you in front of the class. Most times, I deserved it. It's the reason, I believe, that we have such empty, violent, cold-hearted children.
32

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 19/12/2008 07:40:45
No. 7:- These little runts should be taken outside and shot. And then their parents should have the same treatment.
33

Guga II,

Rockall 19/12/2008 08:03:11
These little neds and thugs should be, as a minimum, expelled from school permanently. They should also bring back the birch.

In any event, why weren't these little thugs charged with assault on the teacher, as well as a breach of the peace?

With this type of behaviour from pupils going unpunished, perhaps they should have CCTV cameras in the classrooms, as well as all round the school.


There are going to be fewer and fewer people willing to work as teachers when they get no back up from either their profession or the courts.

Maybe it is time the Scottish government reintroduced "approved schools" with appropriate discipline to control little thugs; as well as bringing back the birch.

This teacher should not have been prosecuted, let alone found guilty.
34

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 19/12/2008 08:08:45
No. 36 Guga:- I'm with you on this one. We've turned this country into a soft touch for all sorts of scum.
35

StopTheNumpties,

everywhere they claim rights that don't exist 19/12/2008 08:15:14
I'll be reviewing the case with my city councilor. If he can't agree to reinstate a teacher in similar cases, he or she will be told that they will not be reinstated at the next election. It's time to start turning out the people who support the breakdown in order. Greece is not that far away.
36

Guga II,

Rockall 19/12/2008 08:15:51
On a different but related topic, the lack of discipline in schools is coming to the fore in the Nicolson Institute in Stornoway. There they have packs of 20 to 30 feral thugs running around the school bullying and terrorising other pupils.

This school, which has a long history of bullying, some of which has even resulted in a pupil taking their own life, seems either unwilling, or unable to take any action against these thugs. Whether this is due to the teachers wanting to avoid a possible situation such as that Dundee teacher found himself in, or whether it is due to a Rector who does not seem to realise, or care, that he has a duty of care towards all of his pupils, I do not know. However, the situation is getting worse and is now alsmost out of hand.

Despite complaints from parents and pupils, which have been totally ignored by the Rector, nothing has been done.

If the stage is reached when another pupil takes their own life, perhaps the school, the education authority or the government will finally take action. Then again, nothing might be done till the schools and the education authority end up being taken to court for failing in their duty of care, and being sued, individually and as an organisation.
37

An Honest Wifie,

19/12/2008 08:26:28
The pupil who first brought the case had already been excluded for assualting Mr Barile - at least 2 of those who made accusations completely exaggerated what happened.

That's from my son who who is the same school. The same school has had parents assaulted by pupils but because it happened outside of the school they were told to go to the police. Of course the police did nothing because they all gang up and keep quiet - even the nice kids because the thugs threaten them. One teacher was assaulted a few years back - again no witnesses because either they are too scared or don't want to see to have grassed.
38

Barobalti,

at a cinema near you... 19/12/2008 08:29:20
"Gavin Callaghan, prosecuting" and "Tracker" seem to share one parent at least or are probably never seen in the same room at the same time. They have their heads up their respective b@cksides and obviously have no experience of the real world.

I was rather an obnoxious little brat at school as well, and what brought me into line?

Absolute fear, that’s what, and the teachers I feared were the ones I thank and respect to this day.

This Dundee teacher has totally been let down by the System. I would pay for the privilege of being let loose on these smug little rat boys. I would cure them in a matter of minutes and make sure they thanked me too. It may be the case that violence is a sure sign of a tired mind, but I fail to see what it would fail to remedy in this case – the teacher would (should) be reinstated and given total respect, the students who want to learn can do so, uninterrupted by mindless gutter vermin, and the offenders would receive a swift, summary, and thorough lesson in respect, humility, and consideration for others.

I would urge everyone in support of Mr Barile to write to the Tayside education authorities accordingly. As for the others, you can just shut up. I have had enough of your hand-wringing, apologist, mealy-mouthed, laissez-faire, spare the rod, society.
39

TREV,

Poland 19/12/2008 08:33:34
The amazing thing is that a fw years ago this kind of discipline would not have raised an eyebrow, particularly as the cane/belt was an option. Now it is seen as excessive.

Here in Poland, a couple of years ago, a teacher was sacked because he slapped a student... one of two who were kicking another on the floor. As he asked, "Should I have just left them to kill the third one?"

I'd love to see what these cocky little snots do when they meet someone outside school who rips their heads off...
40

Scudder,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 08:35:36
Give the guy a medal & give teachers their belts back !
41

Shopping anyone?,

19/12/2008 08:42:48
I haven't read any of the above comments so as not to dilute my own. When I was at school I was given the tawse a few times through misbehaviour and deserved it. The thought of a repeat always made me think - it taught me to be disciplined. It's time that fear of punishment was returned - it would sort out the wayward youth who think they can get away with anything and often do - to extremes. Respect - we learned it. These lowlifes who abused this teacher don't know what this means and the world is a poorer place for all those who advocated then and now that the belt in school should be removed. It never did me any harm, it helped mould me into a better person.

My sympathies to Mr Barile. You can only take so much and the system has been failing for years.
42

yockel,

19/12/2008 08:43:08
Just wait till these young thugs are senior Polis and Councilors then you will understand the depths we are sinking to.
43

Stuart W,

http://planet-politics.blogspot.com/ 19/12/2008 08:52:34
Mr Barile only came to Dundee after he'd had similar problems with pupils in a Fife School. Given his history and high-profile it was inevitable that he'd be provoked by pupils.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2008/12/19/newsstory12404554t0.asp
44

kpm,

unsworth 19/12/2008 09:00:53
Sadly the problems are not confined to scotland but are prevalent in schools throughout the UK, I know of many teachers who have left the profession in utter frustration in having to deal with this type of lout who fear no repercussions.
45

W Smith,

Middle East 19/12/2008 09:01:52
Like the Jihadists, the rapists, the murderers, the peados, etc in the UK the white violent thugs have been well versed in their "rights".

The so-called 'human rights industry' is about the only industry in Scotland that will survive this recession.

The left-wing anarchists continue to wreak havoc while Salmond and Brown (and Hosie) look the other way.

A DISGRACE!

BTW
Mr Barile would be better off walking about Dundee's City Center with a placard that reads "Behead those who insult Islam".

Every left-wing politician in Dundee would have been out to support him in the name of free speech.

The Tayside Police:

1) Jailed a Dundee taxi driver for saying something about 'Pa.k.i.s' - this isn't covered under 'free speech' strangely enough.

2) Turned up at an ex-soldier's door for emailing Dundee's Lord Provost and callling him an 'embarassment' - this ex-soldier has no right to free speech either.

3) Taysides finest stood back and did nothing while Osama Saeed encourage muslims at Dundee University not to cooperate with police. THIS IS COVERED UNDER FREE SPEECH - FUNNY THAT.

Sack Tayside Police's Chief Constable and PF before these idiots do anymore damage.
46

Autism Rights,

Ayrshire 19/12/2008 09:03:16
The political reality is, that for all the criticism above, these `neds` get far more attention and resources than children who have special educational needs, such as an Autistic Spectrum Disorder (ASD). Whereas parents of children with ASD are bullied and intimdated by education officials who are only too ready to abuse the considerable powers that they have, these same officials will not even reinforce a dress code to stop adolescent girls revealing their underwear with the shortest of short skirts. These same officials will lie and abuse their power without the fear of accountability, precisely because the powers that be are more than prepared to spend considerable sums of money on one-to-one tuition for neds than they are for children who have educational needs that are different from the norm, but who actually could make a valuable contribution to society with support. The powers that be know that the general population wants them to keep a lid on crime - and kids with ASD don't generally nick cars. Bottom line.
47

Alastair the First,

19/12/2008 09:03:16
It's not the teacher who should be in court, it's the pupils. Maybe should stop their parents' benefits.
48

old soldier,

Muir-of-Ord 19/12/2008 09:03:27
Once again the lunatics run the asylum it's time we got a grip and brought back the birch to make the youth of to-day toe the line.
The failure of the education authority or the government to back these poor teachers is nothing less than a disgrace. It is time that all right thinking people stood up and told these politically correct idiots where to go.
The return of proper discipline cannot come soon enough whether it be in school or within the community what was wrong with the good kick up the backside that I recieved from teachers and police to keep me on the right track
49

Scotty Cameron,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 09:04:22
When we were at secondary school, our maths teacher frequently threatened to "throw us oot the windae" as he put it. Never did us any harm! He subsequently went on to be a Labour MP, then an Independant MP for Falkirk West! He was a brilliant guy and a very good teacher. Give him 5 minutes with these two chavs and he'd soon sort them out!
50

Autism Rights,

Ayrshire 19/12/2008 09:06:58
However, don't just take my word for all of the above:-

Recent submission to a consultation:-   
Additional Support for Learning Act Amendment Bill 2008
AUTISM RIGHTS' WRITTEN EVIDENCE - can be accessed via the following link:-
ASL AMENDMENT BILL 2008 - WRITTEN EVIDENCE TO EDUCATION COMMITTEE
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/ellc/inquiries/asl%20bill/ASLwrittenevidence.htm
or directly through this link, if you put one space between `asl` and `bill`
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/committees/ellc/inquiries/asl
bill/AutismRights.pdf

See also:-
http://www.autismrights.org.uk/BriefingPaperIndex.html
and
http://www.autismrights.org.uk/Education.html
51

JayJay,

Right here 19/12/2008 09:11:20
When one compares the respective sanctions for the two "assaults" in this case (pupil: 3 day extra holiday, huge respect from his retarded peer group - teacher: court appearance and career ruin) it simply beggars belief that the likes of Judith Gillespie, who has a handsome track record for speaking sheer drivel, can come out and tell Mike Barile that he is in the wrong job.
Well Ms Gillespie, you and your ilk can feel proud of a state school system where educational attainment heads in an ever downwards direction; where a good chunk of pupils leave unable to either read or write; where disobedience and low level indiscipline is unpunished, and everyone else in the classroom learns nothing; where physical assaults on teachers are dealt with in a softly-softly manner so as not to impact some banal league table.
I suspect I, like a majority of the population, am not alone in being heartily sick of a world where decent, hard working people are repeatedly targeted by law-makers and governments, whilst the errant minority of criminals and feral youths are afforded the full protection of the law. Is it such a surprise that society creaks and groans when children have the very worst sort of behaviours "punished" by a light tap on the wrist and their victims are dragged through the courts then lose their livelihoods?
Until simple decency and common sense takes precedence over the absurdities of the various Human Rights Acts we shall continue on a path straight to the gutter. Any chance our elected politicians might do the decent thing here and stand up for what is right?
52

tysjax,

glasgow 19/12/2008 09:17:25
We have been sleep walking towards this point for nearly thirty years. we have children breeding childred whom as a society we then provide with housing and benefits. We are the architects of our own doom. We allow ourselves to be cowed and intimidated by liberal left for fear of being targetted and called a nazi. Is there an answer, yes there probably is. History has always shown that when as a society we reach a saturation point of depravity there comes a backlash, which sadly can prove equally negative but after which some kind of balance is restored. The real question is whether we have the stomach to create a groundswell to force the politicians to listen or whether it is time for the formation of a new political force which truly represents the views of the majority.
53

jj veritas,

19/12/2008 09:19:06
I'll bet that the school gets a good Ofsted report.
54

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 19/12/2008 09:22:47
Give the guy a medal and bring back the birch. that'll sort out the wee scumbags...
55

jj veritas,

19/12/2008 09:22:48
A friend’s daughter qualified from university, completed her further training and started as a teacher not too long ago. She was sexually assaulted by a pupil in front of the class within six months. She left the profession.

Politicians and those running the education and children’s sector have deliberately worked this miracle.
56

CampbellM,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 09:23:30
I was a pupil of Mr Barile at Madras College and I have to say I always thought him to be a good teacher and a decent bloke.

I do think he might have been picked on by pupils and it does sound like he was identified for group abuse.

The discipline available to schools and teachers needs to be greater to allow for sanctions that will really mean something to the pupil who has to be in school but does not care about their education.
57

jj veritas,

19/12/2008 09:26:03
Threatenining to through a pupil through a blackboard is an impossibility - not a crime. The judge should have realised this and that the teacher was only trying to instruct them a style of fiction.
58

Strict Ivan Jellicoe,

Renfrew 19/12/2008 09:28:20
This is absolutelt the right decision.
What kind of society woiuld we live in if young thugs were to be held accountable for the wordds and actions in the same way that this criminal teacher has been? Good grief! Some of them might even end up behaving in a decent manner!
59

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 19/12/2008 09:36:58
As an ex-teacher my sympathies are of course entirely with Mr. Barlie, and I am pleased to read the overwhelming support shown in the above comments. The Procurator Fiscal must have been mad to bring this prosecution at all for such a triviality. It was certainly not in the public interest, because of the deleterious effect it will undoubtedly have on school discipline generally. The Sheriff left no doubt as to his opinion by effectively, if not judicially, dismissing the case with an admonition. I hope that the GTC treats the case accordingly, and that a suitable place will be found for Mr. Barlie within the education system. I also hope that some time a teacher will bring an action for defamation against a pupil using such language, and that it receives the same publicity as this case has.

60

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 19/12/2008 09:39:20
Take them round the back of the bikesheds & give them a damn good thrashing.

OK, not being serious. But what on earth is the solution. Begins in the home of course, but there is an increasing number of parents who themselves do not know right from wrong & don't think their delinquent kids do anything wrong.

No discipline in school now either. But I think even the return of the cane or strap wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Not to mention Human Rights legislation & all those solicitors waiting to make a killing!!
61

watcher,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 09:44:35
You must blame the do-gooders and Pc`s of this Country. They took away Corporal punishment and replaced it with nothing.
They don`t live in Ned Land, and, with nothing else to do with their sad lives they go and make rule changes.
62

winzip12,

Klein Meckelsen 19/12/2008 09:50:24
Kids like this need a good kicking. I hope their parents are very proud of them.
63

TheSmith,

19/12/2008 09:51:47
I remember one of my teachers threw a chair at the classroom out of frustration, because she got stuck trying to move between her complex, self-designed seating pattern (she was obese). It hit one of the pupils. Because the said pupil was known as a 'bad un', the headteacher reprimanded him, and the rest of the class, rather than confronting the teacher for throwing furniture. I miss my school days.
64

TheSmith,

19/12/2008 09:52:35
I remember one of my teachers threw a chair at the classroom out of frustration, because she got stuck trying to move between her complex, self-designed seating pattern (she was obese). It hit one of the pupils. Because the said pupil was known as a 'bad un', the headteacher reprimanded him, and the rest of the class, rather than confronting the teacher for throwing furniture. I miss my school days.
65

TheSmith,

19/12/2008 09:52:36
I remember one of my teachers threw a chair at the classroom out of frustration, because she got stuck trying to move between her complex, self-designed seating pattern (she was obese). It hit one of the pupils. Because the said pupil was known as a 'bad un', the headteacher reprimanded him, and the rest of the class, rather than confronting the teacher for throwing furniture. I miss my school days.
66

TheSmith,

19/12/2008 09:52:37
I remember one of my teachers threw a chair at the classroom out of frustration, because she got stuck trying to move between her complex, self-designed seating pattern (she was obese). It hit one of the pupils. Because the said pupil was known as a 'bad un', the headteacher reprimanded him, and the rest of the class, rather than confronting the teacher for throwing furniture. I miss my school days.
67

WeeIncey,

Nottingham 19/12/2008 09:58:01
It seems that sometimes teachers need protecting from the kids more than kids need protecting from teachers. Some of the kids in my high school in North Berwick used to pick on a particular teacher and make his life miserable but there was nothing he could do. They would then start on other kids in the class and, again, there was not much he could really do to stop them, even against other kids. The bullies end up running the show. Teachers that were effective were those that recognised these kids are not the innocent wee things they seem and addressed them appropriately - the bullies seemed to have more respect for this approach.
68

SteveEcon,

Kirkcaldy 19/12/2008 09:58:22
jj veritas - in you knew anything at all about Scottish education you'd know that Ofsted don't do school inspections in Scotland - HMIE do.
69

Farmernot,

19/12/2008 10:00:14
#71-74 Suffering from RSI by any chance ???
70

,

19/12/2008 10:09:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
71

MWM,

Argyll 19/12/2008 10:14:00
These feral pupils should be rewarded with a weeks holiday - in Helmand Province. That should sort them out.


72

Heather B,

Anstruther 19/12/2008 10:15:20
Bring back the belt. Simple. We used to get the PE teacher to come in to dish it out when pupils behaved badly. Seen a few of the big bullies with tears in their eyes.
73

Scottie,

South Africa 19/12/2008 10:16:42
If ever there was proof needed for the truth of 'spare the rod and spoil the child' ...

Are their parents proud of their behaviour?
74

Vlad Tepes,

Snagov 19/12/2008 10:19:13
78
Would that make him a tetchy drawing teacher?
75

Luigiana,

Aberdeen 19/12/2008 10:20:19
If those numbskulls were just grabbed and threatened, then they got off lightly, compared with what we got in the 1970s if we stepped out of line.

I really feel sorry for the teacher. Ok, he crossed the line, but we are all human and he suffered chronic abuse from those idiots. Surely, there should be a mechanism for disciplining teachers with penalties or time-outs, but the idea that this guy's career is ruined is outrageous. As for the students that step out of line (and get away with it) - send them to boot camp, or fine the parents.

I understand the sherrif's predicament. However, when the law results in the end of teacher's career, for simply taking no more, then there is something far wrong with the law in this country - it stinks.
76

Clive Hamblin,

19/12/2008 10:21:47
Two thoughts:

i. Why didn't the Head Teacher take a proper interest in what was happening in the School and deal with the problems appropriately?

ii. Comment has been made above about 'Human Rights;' yet no has yet mentioned the Teacher's human rights, which include getting on with his job without suffering from young thugs indulging in this sort of behaviour.

Perhaps those in authority in Dundee might like to address themselves to solving the problems rathe than making pious comments.
77

Scottie,

South Africa 19/12/2008 10:25:42
Why don't all the residents of Dundee, and nearby towns, send a petition to their members of parliament and the department of education vehemently protesting against the lack of discipline and order in the schools and pointing out how absolutely insane a situation it is where bad-mannered and badly-brought up children rule the roost in schools?
78

Highland Mist,

19/12/2008 10:29:30
The problem here is twofld:

1. Children being allowed to behave any way that they want to and noone able to discipline them for fear of breaching human rights legislation (incidentally, don't blame Scottish solicitors for this, blame Europe!!).

2. No effective way of getting rid of bad or incapable teachers - the bad ones continue to hold down jobs and often can't control kids or get zero respect from them often because they just are not able to do the job.

Now I know that some teachers won't like to read this view but it's not intended to be derogatory - rather more to put across the view that if we had a double approach to this we might be able to do something about it: A) Discipline children effectively without fear of being in trouble for breaching 'human rights' (this human rights nonsense is going to be the downfall of our entire society soon). And B)Get rid of duff teachers and let the good ones get on with the job of teachign adn controlling the kids properly.

AND for the record - this teacher has to have a good case against the local authority for failure to intervene and remove the 'children' who were bullying HIM - he must have suffered massive stress and there is no difference between this and any other form of bullying in the workplace. There should be a massive amount of support for him and a proper campaign to have a new and fully clarified Scottish code relating to classroom abuse like this. He was severely provoked and no way should he be made to suffer any more.

79

Rab the Rant,

Bo'ness 19/12/2008 10:30:38
Let’s get the pupil rights issue in perspective.

Of course they have the right not to be assaulted by members of staff.

However they do not have the right to verbally abuse staff.

Nor do they have the right to disrupt the education of fellow pupils.

They and their parents should be made aware that with rights also comes responsibilities.

Mutual respect is the key to discipline not only in the school but society at large.

I would suggest that the school in question should have had a disciplinary procedure for referring pupils who had behavioural problems to a higher authority.

If it didn’t and allowed its teachers to sink or swim while attempting to maintain control the pupils, then it is the higher authority that should be in court not the teacher.
80

Highland Mist,

19/12/2008 10:32:13
#67, grow up!
81

Nellie,

Liverpool 19/12/2008 10:35:38
#80 Heather B.
There is a school in Liverpool where they have (or had - the same staff may not be there anymore) a neat way of dealing with pupils as those: Persecuted teachers relate their problems to the PE teacher who then "accidentally" hacks the boys in a game of footie. Well, people DO get hurt playing football. As he helps them off the floor, a little whisper in the ear tells them they'd better lay off their victim. All anyone else has witnessed is an unfortunately heavy and late tackle.
82

Duke,

19/12/2008 10:36:29
Its about time the web was brought back. In my day if this had happened the 2 would be at the front of the class and given 6 of the best. It didnt do any of my generation any harm. Trouble is nowadays, the parents dont think their offspring can do any harm, and would sooner sue than take on proper parenting.
83

Highland Mist,

19/12/2008 10:42:13
I am absolutely astonished that this even went to court. Lets get it into perspective: a 15 year old male who has already assaulted a teacher, provokes him further into retaliation and the teacher ends up in cout.

The 15 year old no doubt has the body of a man and the mind of a moron. NOONE is able to go to work every day and put up with that without cracking. It's a form of bullying, it is torture and it shows complete negligence on the part of the employer to expect their staff to ahve to endure this day in and day out. Solution: remove the perpertator, put him to 'Borstal' or send him to the army for training and correction and let the teachers teach those who are able to behave with human dignity. This society is on the verge of collapse because we afford more rights to the criminal than the law abiding who are being persistenly penalised when they attempt to exert some self defence. What this teacher did was to try and retain self respect and good on him!!!!
84

Highland Mist,

19/12/2008 10:46:42
Letss face it the writing was on teh wall when they abolished the belt - but remember that they had to do that because there were some 'slap happy' wicked teachers who abused it and noone dealt with THEM.

COME ON EDUCATION AUTHORITIES - GET RID OF BAD TEACHERS AND BAD PUPILS AND MAKE THE EDUCATION SYSTEM WORK PROPERLY.
85

Scottie,

South Africa 19/12/2008 10:48:25
And this Callaghan creature should be absolutely ashamed of himself, even if he is a lawyer which is about as low as one can go imo!
86

Wayne Foster,

On the web 19/12/2008 10:49:11
Okay, folks. Time for action. Send a complaint to Dundee City Council at the attached website. Then they might sit up an notice!

(It only takes a couple of minutes)

http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/complaints/
87

Barobalti,

behind the bike shed, thrashing disruptive, spotty 19/12/2008 11:08:05
or how about eMail directly to: anne.wilson@dundeecity.gov.uk
88

Martin AB,

19/12/2008 11:14:22
There is a very easy way of dealing with classroom behaviour like this if the powers that be have the guts to go through with it. It boils down to what education is about and who it is for. Education is a right for everyone in a "civilised society" and when those children who are unwilling to submit to the rules of the educational institute are allowed to distupt other's education then they should be removed from education and returned to their parents to deal with. When the parents realise that their chilren's behaviour has a direct impact on the arent's ability to work then maybe they will take notice. When that doesn't work and the children end up on the wrong side of the law then put them in schools for delinquents. Yes, that costs money but maybe some of the money that gets used to fund endless changes to the education system including re-training of staff and the employment of masses of adminstrators and managers to impelment the schemes could be used for building such schools delinquents.
89

Martin AB,

19/12/2008 11:19:15
soor last line shoul read "schools for delinquents"
90

Red Tower,

Dunoon 19/12/2008 11:20:04
Back in the old days i.e when I was a teacher I hated using the tawse but I used it. The reasons were: one, I loved my subject and I was determined that I be allowed to teach it. I was equally determined that my pupils would learn. It was my duty after all. So the logic of the situation was that I quelled disruptive behaviour in the most effective way i.e by using the belt.Pupils understood where they stood and the result was that I seldom had to resort to this punishment.
Now 20 years after retiring I still have former pupils sending me emails and Christmas cards.
91

Robert Ferguson,

New Gilston 19/12/2008 11:23:03
Teachers are put,frequently, in the intolerable and soul-destroying position of not being able to teach the willing due to the deliberately disruptive behaviour of others. This case should be used as an epoch-changing event to herald in a new era of "zero tolerance". No longer should teachers accept this situation where management,on the whole have a vested interest in sweeping it under the carpet and are,at best, unsupportive. No longer should teachers be persuaded that they should learn "good classroom management skills" viz. "it's your fault" if there are problems. Schools should be places where disruptive behaviour is deemed totally inappropriate pro bono publico. Teachers unions should insist on this.
92

brianmca3,

auld reekie 19/12/2008 11:34:28
#98
yes i agree with you,we all mucked about with a new teacher,for the first day,but once the tawse came out ,that was it ,we stopped and listend,i got it a few times,did me no harm,in fact i stopped being late etc,now due to woolie headed fib dems,right on liebour human rights and all this rubbish,teachers cant teach anymore,not that they are unable,but due to some pc controler saying no to this and no to that
what was once a noble profession,has been made into a joke by busy bodies
what of the future?,god only knows,but when battalions of hooded brats roam the streets,dont blame the schools
93

Rab the Rant,

Bo'ness 19/12/2008 11:39:54
#99
Agree! Step up Fiona Hyslop, Alex Salmond show some leadership on the issue.
94

Geoff,

sa 19/12/2008 11:47:01
What fascinates me about this post is that notwithstanding the fact that virtually everyone is on the same page over thias one, and virtually everyone agrees what needs to be done, the approppriate action will not be taken. When we were kids -teachers,policemen and other authority figures were looked on with fear and respect-not that they always deserved it, but incidents such as a pupil telling a teacher to **** off were unheard of. if we stepped out of line, we got a deserved good hiding and were none the worse for it-I mean, look how i turned out and I was klapped* regularly!!

*Afrikaans-local slang for belted.
95

Robert Ferguson,

New Gilston 19/12/2008 11:47:29
No disruptive pupil should be allowed in a subject classroom. Special units should be expanded but demanding. If a "value-added" stock-taking was carried out on pupils who were afforded special needs help for poor behaviour, it is my opinion that most will have regressed after puberty. Maybe schools as they are are inappropriate places for certain high-maintanance pupils. Lowering the school leaving age to 14 will ameliorate this situation. All schools could be community schools where voluntary post 14s and adults could join courses. This would improve the ambience of many classrooms and give schools a more positive image to youngsters.
96

Nellie,

Liverpool 19/12/2008 11:50:50
#96 Martin
I would thi9nk the cost of sending the delinquents to costly special schools would be off-set by the money saved in lost teaching time and sick absence of teachers suffering stress.

It bugs me that while kids with behavioural problems are pandered to with regard to their human rights, the poor kids and teachers who suffer them are having their human rights ignored!

It also bugs me that kids with behavioural problems get 1-2-1 teaching assistant support in classrooms but good kids with learning difficulties (e.g. Dyslexia) too frequently don't get the support! One of my kids is in that situation: class of 32, no TA support (or only occasionally) and he struggles to keep his head above water for a lack of in-classroom support while the class teacher understandably concentrates her efforts on dealing with the largest group of the class who do not have the difficulties that he faces. TA support from the school? NO funds! TA support from the LA? NO money for 1-2-1 except for badly behaved kids, travellers and immigrants UNLESS they are seriously failing. He wasn't so couldn't get the support, but because he couldn't get the support, now he's failing! But there STILL isn't support! But don't worry, Nellie - by the time the school year ends, he'll be seriously failing and will qualify for a 1-2-1 support unless, of course, he starts hitting people.
97

Geoff,

sa 19/12/2008 11:52:51
101 Rab the Rant-Alex wont do anything about it-and I'm not having a go at the Nats-all the others are equally spineless.
Do you remember cartoonist Giles and the old teacher Chalkie who was always on about "bringing back the birch"? Well reactionary caricature that he was, the simple truth is that he was dead right and that is what is needed!

98

kenbo9,

19/12/2008 11:56:50
This should never even have gone to court unless the tw*ts were injured. Political correctness gone mad and the education system is full of it. Even the new bands that pupils work at are designed so that kids aren't seen to fail. At parent meetings we get told such and such is working at eg level F which is where the majority of pupils 2 years younger to 2 years older should be. Well that's a help. Straight off their own website is this nonsense

Question - Why do As, Bs and Cs get the same number of credit points in a Higher?
Answer - The SCQF level is a guide to the general level of knowledge and skill needed to achieve that award. The number of SCQF credit points gained doesn’t change depending on your grade - the SCQF credit points reflect how much learning you’ve achieved, not how well you’ve learned it. Your grades show how well you have done.

How can you have achieved learning if you haven't learnt it well?
99

Alec A,

Manchester 19/12/2008 12:03:50
I think the sad thing here is the obvious complete lack of support from senior managment in the school to Mr Barilie. After the first abusive/dangerous incident in Mr Barilie's calss, those pupils should have been removed. It is an absolute disgrace that any organisation refuse to protect their employees' safety and well-being.

While I would never support any form of violence by teachers, the desperation felt by this man can only be attributed to a complete lack of leadership from the senior management team.

I really hope that people realise from this how apalling the senior managment in this school must be to allow this to happen and therefore inflict the bulk of the blame on them.
100

Doh,

19/12/2008 12:04:12

This teacher should be promoted not ruined.

Kids are otu of control - the main reason why snobs send their kinds to private school - better discipline leading to a better education.
101

Nellie,

Liverpool 19/12/2008 12:04:56
#100 brianmaca3
As a school governor and as one who's got stuck in to working in the school as a voluntary TA (to see what it's like from the inside) I reckon the main problem that teachers face, the thing that stops them teaching properly, is the amazing amount of "paperwork" they have to complete! All those school holidays a benefit? Some of my "colleagues" in the primary school, often work 12 hour days and usually at least one day at the weekend. Badly behaved kids are just bad eggs in the overall rotten mix that is their lot. (And note, they don't get extra pay for those hours above their bog standard 35 hours a week, and many (most) don't get allowances to which they are entitled either because there isn't the money in the coffers to pay them! To give you an example, TAs working primarily with Special Educational Needs kids are entitled to an SEN allowance. Few, if any, get it in the LA area where I live next to Liverpool. And they won't take strike action to get the money because they know the schools are short of money and can't afford to pay, that they might be closed if they overspend their budgets on salaries! So, they put up with not getting what is theirs by right out of fear of losing their jobs.
102

Nellie,

Liverpool 19/12/2008 12:09:35
#109 I don't think the private schools have better discipline, but they generally have kids from better off homes and areas, from homes where parents tend to be managerially occupied, and they tend to be better motivated than the other kids. They are no brighter than the others, just better motivated. Sad.
103

person who's right,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 12:14:08
I've met Mike Barile a few times and he's always come across as one of the good guys - friendly, enthusiastic, proactive - just the kind of guy you'd want to be teaching your kids.

While I don't condone the use of force against children, I don't think it sounds like it's his fault in the slightest. He should never have been put in this position - anyone who's a human being can understand losing your cool in a situation like that. I think the school has to take a lot of the blame - why wasn't he being helped through this campaign of abuse?

Something's gone wrong here...
104

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 19/12/2008 12:20:28
When I attended a public ("private") school in Southern England it was the job of the older students to administer corporal punishment by the method of canings to the clothed backsides of the younger miscreants.

The teachers were either oblivious of the mayhem in the classroom or felt it beneath their dignity to administer punishment UNLESS they were into that sort of thing.

Most of the smart-alecks and bullies subsequently turned out to be either persistent guests at "Her Majesty's leisure" in prisons and jails and became lawyers, stockbrokers, wine-merchants or, worst of all, politicians.

Now these thugs have free-rein to pick on teachers of both sexes and will turn out to uneducated, illiterate hoodlums with no visible means of support and living on the dole.

They will have a progression of girlfriends and many illegitimate offspring who will carry on this dismal syndrome of impregnation, birth, going on assistance,and assaulting innocent and peaceful working citizens of the UK for fun and to show that they control the streets.

What a dismal outlook for the future of the UK and many other countries throughout the world.

Mr. Barile should write a book about his experiences and mistreatment, make lots of money, and be an advisor to the government on how teachers are mistreated by both their students and the legal system.
105

Spathiphyllum,

19/12/2008 12:20:52
A hundred and twelve comments on this one already!

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

Here's the proof.
106

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 12:25:44
The problem of discipline in schools could be solved immediately by reintroducing corporal punishment.

Furthermore, in matters of discipline the word of a teacher should always be accepted over and against the word of a pupil unless there is definite evidence that the teacher is wrong.
107

Algy,

Chelmsford 19/12/2008 12:36:04
The teacher should have felt supported by colleagues but his acts of desparation indicate that the school management was seriously defective. With out doubt the pupils should have been excluded for bullying conduct. Corporal punishment might have been a deterrent but is usually only a short term solution and inappropriate in this case.
108

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19/12/2008 12:38:05
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109

Blackie,

19/12/2008 13:16:52
We are doomed. It's amazing how the people that make the rules are not in the classroom. Two suggestions, sterilisation or use the scum as mine detectors for our lads and lassies in uniform. I have had it with the politically correct bozos that make the laws for this country from all levels. Courts, prisons, schools etc. Police and teachers have the most frustrating job. A lost cause I'm afraid.
110

Brideun,

Culloden 19/12/2008 13:24:21
Trust that the Editor of the Scotsman is taking note of the overwhelming support for this teacher who was goaded beyond endurance. The obnoxious behaviour of far too many youngsters will only be curtailed when the press unite to influence politicians to listen to reason and close ears to opinionated elitist 'nancy' boys and girls!!
111

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 13:27:11
''Disgraceful conduct by pupils does in no way justify the conduct by the accused in this case.''

That's right. Sadly our society is full of feral young men, and women, and adults. Some of us have jobs which means we encounter them on a daily basis. We don't assault them. I would expect to be sacked if I assaulted someone at work, regardless of the provocation.

Perhaps this teacher has a case against his employers if they failed in their duty of care to him, I don't know, but that is a separate issue.

His actions were wrong, no matter the context. Unless you are at immediate risk, there is no excuse for violent behaviour in a professional capacity.
112

Shamus,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 13:28:46
79# They should be given heavy tackity boots to wear and sent in front of the landrovers. Beat that anyone!
113

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 13:30:00
This man was not acting in self defence. Name calling is not an excuse for physical assault.
114

molu kikes,

basel 19/12/2008 13:31:11
well these happening within the rift drama in the teaching services commision are very common denominater ,., though these modern third world with the genome of being geek ,. are very direspectful , to all infringement in the teaching body at large ,. but the school board has its measure to deal with the crooks who always use filthy buzz words in brassing their head teachers but not the head teachers using lathel hand to excersises his fist ,. i actually condemn that ,............
115

Jogi,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 13:34:42
Why do we not discipline our children? Discipline is not always or only a punishment - discipline can serve to teach children how to get along in our society and do well and hence be happy. While the behaviour of the pupils is reprehensible, for them to be shown (wrongly) that there are no consequences to their actions is a vile state of affairs.
116

molu kikes,

basel 19/12/2008 13:35:01
the student dont obey thier teachers ,., they even dress to impress ,. or dress to nine , pretendng that they are carrying on with the studium but literally they are just like alliens lepreacean in the class ,. the body phoneix is there but the gut is away to harlem central point ,.,or the area around the servile row ,.,.,.,,.,
117

DanishBird,

Fife 19/12/2008 13:37:10
It is not only outragous that this teacher has been convicted of assault against these frankly loathsome youngsters - it is deeply disturbing and does not bode well for the future. Many very competent and able teachers are being lost from the teaching profession due to the total lack of any useful means of dealing with situations like this. Where has common sense gone off to that we are being held to ransom by our own children?
118

ScreaminIan,

Auburndale 19/12/2008 13:38:42
It is so sad to see the country that started the idea of an education for all the people fall to such a level. The teachers in Dundee should all catch the "Blue Flu".
119

St Monance,

Toronto 19/12/2008 13:40:25
There is no point in sending them home to their parents: they are equally at risk. If they attempt to take away their toys or ground them, the kids are on the phone to Child Protection and the parents are charged with child abuse. Society, the politicians and the courts need to come to grips with the reality that there are no consequences for children's bad behaviour until as adults they face the consequences of unemployment, criminal charges and lost lives. It is the adult world, in denying these children real punishment and consequences starting with the trivial of early childhood, that produces the monsters we are now seeing.
120

ExpatBackinScotland,

Carnoustie 19/12/2008 13:43:55
Im an ex teacher and Im aan ex teacher for the reasons in this case (though I have never been accused of assualt nor have a conviction).

I simply could see it coming. School Managements dont support well enough. Besides, if a kid does something wrong, what punishments can you actually give out?

Punishment Exercise, Detention? - Like they care.

Teachers have no control. When you are in a situation where the kids cant be controlled and you feel they are after you, its a very scary place to be.

You dont even have to do a anything, just be hated enough for them to "accuse" you. Just the accusation is a suspension and bye bye career.

Im a happier person since I left. I miss classes with kids that are interested, but I would ever go back.

In this teachers case, if there was a prolonged attack on me, I may have snapped. As the article says you cant defend yourself.

121

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19/12/2008 13:44:18
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122

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 13:47:14
''As the article says you can't defenc yourself''

132 He wasn't defending himself. He snapped.
123

Shamus,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 13:50:16
125# It is you looney lefties and so called do gooders that are the problem. We now have a complete generation of families from great grandmother downwards that are feral scumbags.
124

Sumlogic,

19/12/2008 13:51:20
Problem- Total lack of RESPECT these days in society, for each other and themselves.

Solution- STOP all this stupid nanny state, softly human rights bull.

YES we should all have human rights, however if you act in a way deemed by society as inhuman, well you lose those rights until you earn them again through a properly focused strategic penal system.

Build more prisons that are not 3 star accommodation. If someone wants a TV they need to earn it. I mean earn! Much of our Penal code is created by middle / high income folk who, for them the thought of current prisons would be hell, for some of the folk that are sent there, bearing in mind the squalor they were living in, its luxury!

Have routes, HARD TIME (I mean hard time) or a softer approach where folk earn their way in through education programs, good behaviour, drug counselling, basic manners tutoring and so forth. In some cases drug induced chemical reprogramming may be needed… Yes its what parents SHOULD be doing but many of them have no clue either now! Thick as two short planks.

The societal norms that many hold dear are all but a veneer and are not natural, they need to be taught, and right now folk are being taught whatever bull they see in the media and on television with little or no parental influence.

The choice is there, you have your rights until you lose them through your actions, then you have the right to earn them back through hard work and training up to a point, but if you still keep re-offending, to hell with you, we as a society don’t have the time or the money now for your nonsense.

The £35k per year it costs to keep someone in prison is £34k too high for me! Why not turn Prisons into profit centres where inmates need to earn their keep.


125

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 13:53:05
135 Yeah you're right, there are inter generational feral families. But it's not catching is it ? Just because they act without thinking doesn't mean that we have got to.
126

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19/12/2008 13:58:51
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127

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19/12/2008 14:00:24
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128

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 19/12/2008 14:00:44
Quite obviously the system and the people who run the system are off their collective policitally correct heads.

The teachers union also seems to be infected. No suprise their.

When will we learn that politically correct "do gooders" are totally unqualified to make policies within councils and education departments.

They cannot imagine that some kids are just bad and will never change. The rotten apples are the expensive ones to educate and the biggest threat to the decent childs education.

Tough rules and then removal from school for all repeat offenders. If not we will end up with society sinking to their level as the behaviour spreads.
129

FerryPort,

19/12/2008 14:01:24
"One Dundee city councillor, who asked not to be named, said: "It is almost as if they were hunting in a pack......"

Asked not to be named! Come on, where's your back bone? Stand up and be couted and show your support for this teacher
130

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 14:02:25
139 I doubt if all the other teachers in Scotland who manage to avoid assaulting their pupils support him. They are the ones who deserve to be supported and praised because they are the ones who do their jobs properly.
131

D Williams,

19/12/2008 14:05:13
Instead of divided opinion as to who was in the wrong (or right), couldn't we just leave them all in a locked room for a couple of hours.......
132

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 19/12/2008 14:09:22
Changed Times.

When I was 14 I was smacked a couple of times in the face by a policeman after being drunk & cheeky. It was open palm but still a good smacking. It was the old way. Job done.

No report written no record of the chastisement other than between me and the policeman and my friends who watched in silence after the fist smack.

When I went home and told my parents I was again smacked for being cheeky to the police man and for drinking. Not for one second did my parents consider calling a solicitor to report the police. They were raging at me and the shame I had caused them.

Now imagine that scenario in todays environment.

I still know this policeman even though he is retired, I feel nothing but respect for him as he solved the problem very quickly, very cheaply and I never got charged not had any permanent record of my childhood daftness.

Now I consider this a sucessfull example of community policing.
133

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 19/12/2008 14:13:18
Ref: 146

If this happened today I would probably still be on anti depressants and attending counciling sessions to help me get over the child abuse inflicted upon me be the evil policeman who had no rights to resort to violence.

A total waste of time, resources and money but it would keep the P.C. Brigade in high spirits knowing they saved me. I would probably still be a little bas-tard having never learn any lessons and feeling like a victim of abuse.

134

osunueri,

Uganda 19/12/2008 14:19:52
it is quite absurd the treatment teachers are receiving from the society where they serve.The problem stems right from the homes where the learners come from. The parents use derogatory remarks about the teachers and no wonder the learners can make such nasty comments. At school some administrators also harass staff infront of the learners adding to the lack of respect for the teachers. The children's rights which are not properly understood by both the adults and the children compound the horrific situation in which the teacher operates.It is not late to get back to pick our moral standards that had shaped our society. If we just look on helplessly,then teaching and parenting are going to become more bloody than any other war we have ever experienced.
135

EK,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 14:20:16
I fully support the teacher - the kids are 100% to blame. They should have been caned like in the past. The lack of discipline in schools is a disgrace and it needs a strong male figure to physically overcome the cheek and bad behaviour. If any politicians are reading this take note - the public want more discipline in schools and it would be a good idea to introduce proper punishments like caning or physical restraint. Give the teachers and headteachers more power (same with police too).
136

Cyn,

Left Of Centre 19/12/2008 14:22:05
Bullying is wrong! It isn't any less wrong when the bullies are teens and the victim is an adult. The best way to stop a bully is to stand up for yourself. Enough said.
137

EK,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 14:23:53
Many people on here support the teacher, why on earth dont the politicians etc take note and stop being lily-livered? Get the police and teachers to hand out a short sharp phsical punishment that stings or hurts for a while. Will soon stop a lot of the malignant behiour of the youths. Our politicians are useless - they cave into pressure by soft groups with a big voice. Why do they NEVER listen to what the public wants???? What do we have to do? Is our system wrong? MAybe we need a benign dictotor????
138

catmow,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 14:27:53
I was cheeky to the biology teacher, result, taken by the scruff of the neck and removed from class. Long term effects, yes definately, I no longer cheeked a teacher for the rest of my school days.

Imperative that some sort of deterrent is brought back - did my generation no harm at all apart from the fact we stand out as we still respect our elders
139

Hardrations,

Winnipeg Canada 19/12/2008 14:32:14
A well done to the teacher. To the thugs (students) right now you think you pulled off a quick one. Well some day some one not as self controled as your teacher will lay an UnGodly licking on you and you'll wonder why. You'll probably never figure it out.
140

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19/12/2008 14:32:38
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141

Shamus,

19/12/2008 14:35:08
137# As far as I am concerned any pupil that deliberately causes the disruption of a class for any reason should be removed. Raw mince eaters will always be mince eaters. What about all those teachers in Strathclyde during the eighties and early nineties that were queing up for sickness pensions due to pressure mainly from indiscipline in the class. Something cleary happened when the lefties got their way.
142

Proud to have Scots blood,

Brooklyn, N.Y. 19/12/2008 14:51:07
The same problems occur here as well. Teachers have been attacked in the class rooms. People in the neighborhoods where the schools are who are just going about their business are in danger of being tossed from the kerb into traffic. Some students behave like thugs and have absolutely no regard for anyone. Yes, there are exceptions but there are too many of the
unruly. The best thing anyone can do is alter your
day by not being in any area where students are. There are 4 schools within a five block area where I
live. Forget about the parents. Do'nt even attempt to use a train. You will be thrown down the stairs
that is, if you can get down them. These young people are always blocking the hand-rails & sitting on the stairs & congregating all over. You do not want to get "trapped" in a subway car. The girls are as bad and worse than the boys. Nobody will help you. Local stores are robbed left & right. The local political leaders don't see any of it because they either do not want to or they have blinkers on.
All they do is whine about "the children" & what obligations are owed to them. Meanwhile our taxes are paying for new schools the "children" really do not want to go to and the local "leaders" keep smiling
& get their photos in the papers. They are great at telling everyone what is good for them. The good they supposidly do is constantly rammed down everybody's throat. If they learn nothing else, the "children" know what their rights are!
143

EK,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 14:51:36
Assault is a very strong term #158, and not everyone DESERVES "respect". You are wrong, tommytommy, sir or madam, your ideas are weak and do not take account of the ghastly behaviour of teenage kids. I suspect you are well off and live in a nice house and hardly ever come across bad behaviour yourself, otherwise you wouldn't be talking like this. Please, get real and stop messing around with your silly left-wing ideas.
144

alexandermcdonald,

london 19/12/2008 15:24:14
these Childrens parents should go and apologise to this poor teacher and do everything they can to save this poor man's life.
there is such a thing as natural justice and if this is not the case where it should rear it's head then i am from a country that does not protect it valued teachers
EVEN EXCEPTING THE CASE OF HIM BREAKING THE LAW .

145

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 15:26:36
157 I agree with you. Severely disruptive pupils should be removed from the class. Anybody who assaults a teacher, a fireman, a Police Officer, a nurse etc should be charged with aggravated assault, because people like them (and me) can't help but be placed in situations where we are faced with the detritus of society that most posters on here would cross to the other side of the street to avoid.

But it doesn't give us carte blanche to assault them when they are not posing any physical risk to us. That is getting down to their level and doesn't do anyone any good.
146

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 19/12/2008 15:31:14
161 tommytommy,19/12/2008 15:01:16
... I might be a teacher- for all you know.I might be a parent of difficult challenging teenagers -for all you know. So best not to make assumptions.

Well since I am in a grand mood today with time on my hands I would like to put forward my assumptions.

You are most likely Vincent.W or Observer1 in disguise, a union activist and a catholic. You have time on your hands to assist with volunteer groups and church activities but you are helping more than being helped.

You have a public sector pension and you think Gordon Brown did actually "Save the World"

You are to all intents and purposes the type of politically correct person who got this country into this mess in the first place.

You would make a great Nanny but are no good for the State.
147

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 15:38:35
155 ''Well let me say phuck you'' and you are bemoaning the lack of standards in other people ? You appear to be ignorance personified, if I can be frank back. I may lack balls, being a woman I won't lose any sleep over that, but I have spent twenty years working with ''scum'' as you call them, I have been threatened, assaulted, had to get an interdict out against one particular nutjob, and never once have I snapped. I am paid not to snap and so was this teacher. Many many people are faced with difficult situations in their working lives, and they don't lash out. If you do that, then you are behaving as badly as the people you are lashing out at.

As for me being religious and a Labour Party supporter, you are hallucinating wildly.
148

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 15:40:58
''a union activist and a Catholic'' Oh dear Jock, your bigotry is showing.
149

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 19/12/2008 15:40:58
Its natural for younger people to 'test the limits', so to speak. That is why you have discipline, so that when a line is crossed there are consequences, and everyone learns to respect this.

If you don't have this discipline then the behaviour of some will simply continue to get worse. Also others who observe that there are no real consequences will be more likely to misbehave as well.

What happens then is a cycle of increasing yobbish and feral behaviour that is no good for anyone. Its no good for the kids themselves, for other kids who are victims of such yobbish behaviour, for teachers and ultimately for society itself since yobbishness unchecked is very damaging.

You therefore need discipline. Corporal punishment can be quite effective (Jock MacTamson's comments). Some dislike corporal punishment not for pragmatic reasons but for essentially religious/personal belief reasons. But then you need a sufficient substitute, which is what appears to be lacking. Expulsion is a route no-one wants to take, so what are you left with?

Remember the racist murder of Anthony Walker? At least one of the kids involved was a real yob at school - but simply was not checked or reigned in. Perhaps if they had experienced some discipline, Anthony Walker wouldn't have been murdered. Interestingly a short time after Anthony Walkers murder the school which the murderers came from had a supply teacher who was mocked for being pakistani. He was unable to keep order because various pupils were openly mocking his accent in a racist way.
150

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 16:00:01
169 I think what posters are failing to recognise is that this teacher has failed to live up to the professional standards expected of him. It is quite ironic that, because I am sure a few of them have joined in the general anti-teacher rants that you usually get on stories mentioning teachers. The rent-a-mob don't always act with consistency, surprise surprise.

There are clear issues of H+S in schools, teachers have a very very difficult job, but that is not going to be resolved by supporting teachers who resort to physical assault.

170 The problem with corporal punishment is that it wouldn't be any deterrant to most of the disruptive pupils. They are used to it, it would be water off a duck's back to them.
151

Arync,

19/12/2008 16:00:47
Tis a sad state to say that these lads NEED help. The Parents are the people that should be on trial also. The lads should be expelled from school. The instructor should be allowed back into school. All the students should NOT have any rights as those rights. It is ridiculous. Where are the manners & proper behaviour? Education is a PRIVILEGE, NOT a RIGHT!!! What a disgrace, and the parents of these lads should be walking around w/their heads hanging in SHAME!!!
152

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 16:05:20
If there was any doubt whatsoever as to why this country is f**k*d....
153

Eric D,

19/12/2008 16:12:18
We were warned at the time banning the belt would lead to disciplinary problems but the politicians thought it it politically unacceptable, and said it would be better for us in the long run. Blame the banning of corporal punishment for our predicament. Yes, most of it went through on WMD style lies. Abortion was only for medical emergencies. Homosexuality was only legalised so that people ravaged by the diseases caused by promiscuous sodomy could be treated without being criminalised. We were only joining a trading bloc with our European neighbours. We would only have necessary levels of immigration. Contraception would only be for married women - it wouldn't fuel promiscuity. Divorce reform wouldn't lead to an increase in broken families. Welfare would only be for those that needed it. Where are they now ?

154

MattyMat,

Cali 19/12/2008 16:24:43
Send the c**ts to juvy--- don't throw your career away because of these dorks-- They'll be in prison in no time anyway.
155

JayJay,

Right here 19/12/2008 16:29:25
#169
Got to wonder my friend what you make of the sort of characters who assault nurses in A&E, throw bricks at fire engines and display, at a tender age, the full suite of sociopath in waiting characteristics. Perhaps, like many, you'll only care when they come for you.
I think many people are expressing huge frustration at a world where a robber can break into your house, you defend yourself and your property, yet end up in court for the use of "excessive force". The repercusssions for this teacher are clear, but is there an equal punishment for the cowardly pupils - you know the answer to that.
Educational standards have declined substantially in the last 10 years. Ask any teacher to describe their day in certain state schools and they will tell you that a hard-core of pupils, intent on all manner of baw-baggery, account for as much as half of the teaching day. The rest of the class, who can either join in or observe the spectacle, just have to put up with it. Any sanctions that are available are a beaurocratic waste of time, achieving little other than a "don't do that again will you".
You may be happy with this scenario. As a taxpayer, and parent of two school age kids, I am angry and frustrated that our education system, despite massive investment, has been allowed to reach a point where pupils can assault teachers (700 plus reported assaults with weapons in the last year), engage in a sustained campaign of intimidation, yet those pupils remain in an education system they simply loathe.
This case is a manifestation of the wider problems in a society where anything goes, where irresponsibility and disrespect are new religions. These individuals will doubtless come from a broken background, and will doubtless go on to repeat the lives of their parents and we simply do not have one single politician or educationalist, who is prepared to face up to their ludicrous assertions, expressed over the past decade, that, no matter what they do, these kids must
156

kenbo9,

19/12/2008 16:43:24
Observer 1 - what constitutes assault? Were they actually hurt? If they were I would agree with you but I've read nothing about any injury and suspect it's because they were shown up that this has all happened.
157

St Andrews Jock,

ST ANDREWS 19/12/2008 16:55:50
That pupils can assault Teachers but the Teacher ends up losing their job, lets feral pupils and worse still, feral parents gain the upper hand is well illustrated. At Madras College in St Andrews a pupil assaulted a teacher, the pupil is not disciplined and the teacher ends up suspended. This tells the pupils that they are in charge, and with weak management at all levels, the teacher lost his job. Once the feral pupils sense blood, a teacher even if vindicated and reinstated is vulnerable.

Sadly the problem will probably go away there is potential that in the long term there will be no teachers. It is the pupils that wish to learn that suffer.
158

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 16:57:49
It looks like some people just have to accept that they give up their human rights when they enter public service. They get scant protection from the law, just the usual platitudes from the politicians and meaningless 'statements of purpose' and promises of zero tolerance from the bosses. You have the right to work without assault, fear of assault, bullying or verbal abuse. Aye, right. But scumbags like these creatures get the full protection of the law and no doubt a nice wee bit of compo thanks to some equally scumbag lawyer.
159

Roy Forrester,

Bloomsburg USA 19/12/2008 16:58:08
Bring back the "Tawse" It worked. Not only have educational standards declined school discipline is non-existent. Who would want to be a teacher today?
160

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 17:04:50
#181 tommytommy

You live on another planet. What protection does a teacher get? Report the 'child' to the police so that it goes through the meaningless charade of the children's panel process? Sue them, when no doubt the parent is as unemployable? I take it you remember the case of the rapist who kept threatening nurses at Edinburgh Royal? What happened to him? Private dialysis with his own personal security guard and some poor nurse forced to minister to him. He should have been told if you can't behave like a decent human being, the service is denied you. If he died in the gutter, tough.
161

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 17:07:04
179 Well I don't know about teachers but I have received the full protection of the law on a couple of occasions, and I was suitably grateful. There is a lot more to be done to improve things, a whole lot more, but taking the law into your own hands and basically losing control is not the way to go about it.

177 Assault doesn't need to mean that you have been battered, but it always involves inappropriate and threatening physical contact. He would not have been charged and convicted if he had not crossed the line.

Turning a ''vigilante'' teacher into a ''hero'' is not going to do anything to resolve the very real problems that teachers and other workers face. Quite the contrary.
162

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 17:12:04
182 We are not allowed to let people die in the gutter. We are not allowed to exclude people who have difficult behaviour. Given that is the case, and it isn't going to change any time soon, we need to find ways of managing, losing it and lashing out isn't one of the options that is going to work.

What we need to be looking for are things that work, instead of just going off on one.
163

Sea Campion,

USA 19/12/2008 17:15:29
I left university teaching in America because I was repeatedly threatened by students: Department administrators could not understand why I thought I was in danger. Finally I was forced to get police protection for one course and, for another, to have a policeman present during the final examination. My sympathies are entirely with Mr Barile. Congratulations to him for confronting the appalling student abuse.
164

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 17:15:39
Obviously we don't know what this teacher's previous history is. Perhaps he's a serial pupil batterer for all we know. I doubt it though. All we know is he grabbed the clothing of one lout and pushed another against the wall. He hasn't touched any kids that weren't causing serious problems, again as far as we're told. Do you really think this is justice? A very experienced teacher of previous good character who has provided a dedicated service to children and the community, who cost a fortune to educate and train, who will no doubt lose his job and have to be kept on the dole, whose own family will all be affected by this decision. And all for the sake of a momentary loss of cool under extreme provocation. Madness. Absolute madness.
165

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 17:21:23
#184 Observer

#186 was also for you by the way! Why do we have to 'manage' these people. You'll no doubt say I have a screw loose or I'm myself some sort of sociopath, but I wouldn't lose a moment's sleep if the sort of people who can't be trusted to conduct themselves in even a remotely sociable way were sent to some remote island somewhere to fend for themselves with their own kind. Society would not be any the worse for their not being amongst us.
166

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 17:26:27
187 Personally I would exclude severely disruptive children, not just chuck them out, but have separate educational facilities.

But it's not realistic to fantasise about placing them all on an island, it's not gonna happen, so we need to deal with the here and now.

I am reading between the lines here, but I reckon this guy has got form of some kind, or other issues. I just can't see either his employers or the Police ruining an innocent man's career over nothing, the EIS or whoever would be going mental if that was the case.
167

V.Plasi,

TX 19/12/2008 17:27:03
As soon as the abuse started, the thugs in question should have been removed from the classroom and expelled immediately. I am sorry he lost his job.
I attended Norton Park School, and this kind of behavior would not have been tolerated back in the day.
168

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 17:31:51
#188 Observer

I wasn't talking islands for kids!! But there are many adults out there I'd gladly see go. I agree with you about seperate schooling, but we're not allowed to stigmatise. We've got to be inclusive. They're 'vulnerable'. No, the only people who are 'vulenerable' are the teachers who are vulnerable to abuse and violence or the decent pupils whose education is vulnerable to constant disruption and the unfair allocation of teachers' time and attention.
169

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 17:36:51
191. Well the ''bad'' kids probably are ''vulnerable'' in the sense that they may have had awful parenting and rotten childhoods. That's why I don't think it does anyone any good to keep the really disruptive ones in mainstream education. After all, it's not to anyone's advantage, not the teachers, not the other kids, and not to the ones causing the problems. It's not stigmatising anyone to recognise that they've got problems themselves, and cause problems for others.
170

Gordon A.,

BC 12/19 19/12/2008 17:38:52
Many have made some valid points. One must admit two wrongs don't make a right. However students now are far too smart for their own good so it shall fall back to the parent to rule due justice.
When parents fail as they often are also human, then one has to allow the system to make some corrections to adjust the situation.
These young tyrants will become the crime wave of the future unless they are taught that they can use their skills more constructively for their own good.
Teaching is no longer as enjoyable as it was 35 years ago.
Now one realizes why so many families send their children to private school.
My sympathy goes out to the teacher who genuinely cares about their student's success in life.
171

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 17:42:49
#192 Observer

You're right, these kids were 'vulnerable' from the moment of conception in the sense that it doesn't take a genius (shame there aren't many amongst or governing elite who appear to be within a million miles of genius)to work out that their parents were never going to do other than condemn them to mirroring their own lives. Which takes us right back to the discussion of a few weeks ago about who should be allowed to have kids to raise. We disagreed then, I seem to recall....
172

Mallard,

Borders 19/12/2008 17:49:19
Contrary to some of the posts here, this problem applies to cocky middle class youth too. It all goes back to lack of parental control and parents' belief that their wonderful child can do no wrong.
It is time we got back to the days of summary justice in schools -
1. Complain about the teacher
2. Be asked what you did to upset the teacher
3. Receive good belting from senior teacher
4. Complain to parents
5. Receive a good hammering

Lesson learnt - don't do it again! No courts or other waste of public money.

173

Observer. 1,

Glasgow 19/12/2008 17:50:15
194, well we're making an assumption here that these two boys are mirroring their parent(s) behaviour, but I think that's fairly safe. That's why expecting parents who have no kind of discipline themselves to discipline their children is futile. I don't disagree with you about the need to break the cycle which undoubtedly exists, and is responsible for so many of the problems that can be traced directly to the lifestyle of certain parents. I just don't see how you can practically ''allow'' people to have kids or not. I would be a lot more radical in who should be allowed to keep them.
174

Ananurhing,

19/12/2008 18:29:27
There needs to be serious consequences for disruptive pupils AND their parents. Too many parents seem to think it's the responsibility of the school to turn their kids out as decent human beings. The parents should have to answer for their childs delinquency, and be responsible for resolving the issues, with the help of the school.

The policy of "inclusion" for disruptive pupils and those with "behavior problems" needs to be looked at. It's unfair to teachers and other pupils. One problem child can completely disrupt the education of a whole class, and require a disproportionate amount of a teachers time and resources.

As Dragonhead pointed out earlier, there are no disciplinary problems in Chinese schools. They have huge class sizes, long school days, loads of homework, and zero delinquency in school. Why? Because of the shame it would bring on their family.

The parents of these two scumbags should be a) made to give assurances that they are dealing with their childs unacceptable behaviour, and b) feel ashamed of themselves for allowing this to go to court. I hope they're made to feel shame within their own community.
175

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 19/12/2008 18:34:41
There is a lot of finger-pointing in these posts and vacuous assumptions not based on fact.

For example #133 and his lapdog #138 seem to have access to privileged information that is not being reported in the Scotsman.

Maybe they have information gleaned from other sources or are part of the investigative team.

How are we to know when souces are not cited.

These smirking, smug hooligans have probably ruined the career of a good teacher at that school and I hope his appeal is successful.

There are plenty of other schools who would want to hire someone who challenged the hooligan ways of a small coterie of dimwits.

The scumbags of the world should not inherit its riches or be accorded any kind of privileges based on their unseemly and unlawful ways.
176

Keith Lagden,

Sacramento 19/12/2008 18:42:32
These two children are walking billboards in support of abortion, it is a pity they made it this far in life, should have been off to the incinerator 15 years ago.

Who in their right mind wants to be a teacher. I was caned as an 8 year old, I even had the choice of cane to be used. Would I tell my parents, are you kidding. I knew better. What quality of parents do these little toe rags have?
177

St Andrew 01,

Johannesburg 19/12/2008 18:49:13
Scotland, like most of Britain, is a cesspit in terms of its juvenilles.
No rules, chaos reigns, no consequence, no manners, no hope -
Teachers are subjected to absolute hell at the hands of scum ridden youth who can do as they please without consequence.
And is it any wonder this is the case when we live in a world in which some people are against capital and corporal punishment?
In Britain, prisons have better facilities than local schools. How can that be? What sort of sick and disturbed society spends more on its criminals than it does on its children?What kind of sick mind is against punishing children?
What sort of person supports the dole?
Would it not be better to scrap the dole and replace it with a system that sees those on benefit working for their money?
Would it not be better to introduce a system that allows schools and teachers to punish unruly children?
Would it not be better to treat criminals like criminals by giving them nothing in order to free up more money for the children?
Britain is slowly going to the dogs, not long now till its the poorest and most violent nation in western Europe ,it may already be.
178

T. McCarthy,

Grangeville 19/12/2008 19:42:46
A society will ultimately receive what it deserves, particularly when cowards have over sight. It would appear that only the Sheriff has insight and courage.
A fair reader needs only to note the vast majority opinion, tone, and shear number of comments regarding this teacher's ordeal.
This teacher would be very welcome and acceptable in our school district and because of that, our students rarely display such disrespect and anti social behavior. Those that do, are not permitted, under court order, to enter upon school grounds.
179

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia, Canada 19/12/2008 20:34:17


Draco Was a Wimp.
Your post( #173) IS right on target

Also agree, with your other posts.

When it is not safe for elderly people to walk the streets of our Canadian cities without being mugged and robbed........by "caught and released" repeat offenders
this is NOT acceptable.

Our class rooms ,at least for now appear, to give our teachers more support against thugs, than your system.

How long this will continue if our "bleeding hearts" have their way is anyone`s guess.
180

Bluejen,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 21:35:25
I have noted with interest your correspondents regarding Mike Barile. I have a great deal of sympathy for him. I have numerous friends who have either left teaching or taken early retirement just because of pupils' behaviour. I think it is about time something was done regarding pupils. We hear all about the pupils' rights what out the teacher's rights. Have they no say in the matter and also are they expected to take violence and abuse from pupils without doing or saying anything? There is a limit as to what any human being is expected to take. These two boys could get any teacher out of the school. They have no respect. This, of course, reflects on the parents who should take some responsibility for their child's behaviour. After all the schools are not Social Works. I hope Mike Barile is not struck off the Teaching Register. If the belt was returned, which might be a good idea, it should be administered by the Headmaster only. I say this because in the old days teachers abused the belt - I witnessed it. I do not agree with Mrs Judith gillespie's remarks i.e. teachers should ask for help if a class gets out of hand. If the teacher asks for help too often, it reflects back on the teacher i.e. he/she cannot keep discipline. What is a teacher expected to do? - stand and do nothing! Good luck Mr Barile and hope your Appeal is successful.
181

Bill Mac,

Edinburgh 19/12/2008 21:50:17
No. 57 I agree entirely with your comment on Judith Gillespie. This is a self promoted woman who comments on all aspects of education with a fair degree of ignorance.

This story is a tragic indictment of the whole sorry state we have got ourselves into. Schools do not have an educational problem, they have a social problem, dumped on them by a society which fails to prepare youngsters for entering educational establishments, that is the bottom line.
182

Poetess50,

19/12/2008 22:12:56
THIS IS RIDICULOUS. You have parents who fail to discipline their 'little darling', and idiot-a** lawmakers who've not only removed the teacher's ability to discipline, but decided children have 'rights'! This is obviously due to the fear caused by several unfortunate but high-profile cases of child abuse.

In my day, the only right a child had was to do as they were bloody well told until they were old enough to move out of the house & provide for themselves.

BING BACK CORPORAL PUNISHMENT. I took my share of swats from the Principal's paddle, & it did me no harm!
183

FerryPort,

19/12/2008 23:09:01
#50 Poetess50 "...out of the house & provide for themselves"
With a little bit of love tucked in thier pocket I hope x
184

Dr. James Wilkie,

Vienna 19/12/2008 23:32:02
I agree with several comments that these boys need help. They are at an age of experimentation, when they are exploring the limits of what is permissible and what is not, and they are simply not being shown these limits. That is a serious defect, not only in the school system, but in society in general, because the old methods of establishing the necessary limits are no longer politically correct.

What I would suggest in this case and any similar ones that arise, is that the teacher who suffers verbal abuse should immediately institute legal proceedings for defamation against the pupil(s) concerned, and cite the entire class as witnesses. I would put an effective level of compensation claimed at, say, five thousand pounds for damage to professional reputation etc.

The parents can be informed that the case will be abandoned only if the pupil(s) concerned are brought before a full school assembly to be given a public dressing down by the head teacher, to apologise publicly to the teacher concerned, give an assurance that such behaviour will not be repeated, and accept whatever punishment is handed out. The media should also be invited, at least for the first few such occasions, for more general disciplinary reasons.

This works, believe me. I have seen it done in another country. A few examples, with adequate publicity, would go a long way towards solving the problem for good.


185

St Monance,

Toronto 19/12/2008 23:41:31
Respect is earned: not deserved. These youngsters have done nothing to deserve respect. The teachers' union should be demanding the right of EVERY teacher to refuse to admit children to their class who disrupt it. Then let the officials come up with some way of dealing with the hooligans off the school site so that serious students have an environment in which they can learn and teachers do not have do worry about their safety. All this process is doing is creating an environment in which the graduates of the schools will be illiterate and uneducated: because the classroom no longer has the means to give anyone what they need to be a success in life.
186

,

20/12/2008 00:22:36
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187

,

20/12/2008 00:32:33
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188

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 20/12/2008 00:34:30
The teacher should not have to face anything it was self defence, and he should be able to work in a violance free work place the council and the school have failed him when they should have offered support,
these children or classroom thugs are losers, and unemployable and will forever be in and out of jail. as they will be too illiterate to do anything else.
My own view is take them to afganastan and see how brave and tough they are then
189

,

20/12/2008 00:49:23
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190

Dunnie,

Canada 20/12/2008 00:50:11

In the interest of others on the planet, would the last one to leave the UK please remmember to pull the plug and turn off the lights.
191

Dunnie,

Canada 20/12/2008 00:51:42

Dada, you're gaga. Put down the pipe, save the next line for tomorrow night and go to bed.
192

First Virginian,

USA 20/12/2008 01:07:16
Mr. Barile should start his own maths tutoring service and charge by the hour.

Maths tutors in the US charge $40 per hour and pick their own hours...after school and on weekends.

Only serious students are going to be privately tutored and they are well behaved with a parent paying for the instruction.

Best of all, the tutor gets to pick his students and does not have to deal with ignorant school administrators or parents.

Hope the thugs and their parents that caused all this trouble get what they deserve.
193

FerryPort,

20/12/2008 03:31:10
I highlighted the anarchy of children in the early 90's .Chilldren hanging upsidedown outsideo old person's windows.
One child with 91 charges. They had so many trainers in custody.
Said same child asked an officer
"How much do you earn in a week? As much as this?"

The McKenzies
194

Stuart W,

http://planet-politics.blogspot.com/ 20/12/2008 06:17:48
198 TimW1234, Ottawa

Mike Barile's history is well known locally, as per the article from the other day I linked to in post 49.

An older article (below) provides a bit more of the background to what happened in Fife. There was a great deal of controversty about it in Madras College in St Andrews, and I think it basically came down to the teachers, parents teachers and pupils dividing along hawk v dove lines, but the head teacher at that time was I think regarded as being far too soft, which is probably how he came into conflict with Mike Barile.

He's clearly no ordinary teacher, but on the other hand it's surely self-evident that his history meant that he would be goaded by pupils at his new school and that it's clearly all ended a bit messily.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2007/07/04/newsstory9946898t0.asp
195

Sumlogic,

20/12/2008 09:57:50
181 tommytommy,19/12/2008 16:58:13

I detect Social worker 'speak'!

This nonsense society we live in now, with the huge focus on Social welfare reports and background reports and psychological reports. Psychology has taken over from religion in many ways; people once turned to god or whatever now they turn to a shrink to help them...maybe they are being led down that path a little too often however, what about self reliance and growth as a person?

This softly, weak, antibiotic, anti depressant society is becoming massively ill equipped to deal with some of the real hardships of existence as a human being. Life is tough, but its going to be much, much tougher for all those weaklings who have succumbed to the brainwashing of some of these shrinks and been over medicated on the most popular psychotropic of the day (dangerous drugs sold legally).

Human beings have survived for thousands of years of massive hardship, droughts, disease, ice age, predators and now we are supposed to believe that a person can’t handle a little slap every now and then. What a stupid twisted world we have created of cowardly actions, hiding behind supposed mental issues and poor upbringing, using any excuse to escape self-responsibility and respect…now we have the added issue of profit and an easy buck through legal channels helping remove another slice of the instinct of self preservation from our society!

Many humans will not survive ‘the next’ catastrophe at this rate, because they are simply fat, unfit, soft and ignorant!
196

Sumlogic,

20/12/2008 10:05:48
What’s worse, were even supposed to believe that 'words' yes words; noises that emit from the mouths of humans can actually really hurt folk. That belief in and of itself causes most of that nonsense.

What ever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never harm me".... now we have nothing short of ‘word phobia’, as if we have been thrown into some psychological dark age of the power of magic and incantation.

Can’t say this, cant say that, must never use that word...all an attempt to control thought! Maybe if people used words more often and actually properly understood context and meaning through proper education some of the problems we face today would go away...then again who knows!
197

Sumlogic,

20/12/2008 10:16:52
Take this report for example. The news editor cant even write "walking p-enis" and told him to "f*** off" the so-called 'F' word without censorship, even in a news report, quoting a legal case?

What kind of society do we have where guns and bullets kill millions and yet we have the ridiculous, preposterous inability to write the letters…(yes letters simply marks on paper or a computer screen) F K C U in a certain sequence, as if by some magic if we do, something spooky will happen?

We all know the word in our heads anyway so why not just write the thing! If some one did not know it they would most likely go and look it up (maybe I’m pushing that one in this day and age).

And why can’t we say a word made up of a certain sequence of these symbols F K C U? Because SOMEONE says we should not, most likely born out of an apocryphal religious edict of some kind based on an other preposterous notion that our natural human sexuality is in some way deviant or wrong...honestly what a seriously stupid species we can be!

NB I tried to post this, directly quoting from the main article and the software does not allow the word P E N I S, even though its in their report! I rest my case.

198

Bill Mac,

Edinburgh 20/12/2008 17:00:04
221 - and your comment on the actual story is? I rest my case.
199

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 20/12/2008 18:50:55
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR 2009 TO ALL
200

Sumlogic,

20/12/2008 20:20:23
222 Bill Mac.

Well it's simple really, 219, 220 and 221 are a continuation, smarty pants!

Maybe you should have read the comments before 'resting your case' so prematurely!

Have a wonderfull Festive period
201

fife runner,

20/12/2008 20:28:02
218 my wige taught at madras which went downhill discipline wise during the tenure of the head you are talking about. The new head has hads to put up with the idiocy that now reigns and only two weeks ago a teacher walked out unable to cope with the cohort who now rule in the school because they were not disciplined propely. My wife left after her second physical assault and I still have the papers signed by the head which states teacher advised not to stand in the way of the pupil again.

She told the boy not to go to an area of the school he was barred froma and she was hurled through a set of bouble doors and was off for 6 weeks.

Mike's case at Madras entailed him being assaulted and the boy back in his class next day. Mike phone the depute who duly put the phone down on him. He went to the police and what follwed was a witch hunt by school managemnt and education officials . He appealed his final warning which was heard by new Fife administration after local elections . He was successful. One new councillor actually called it a witch hunt and he was cleared.

202

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22/12/2008 06:39:11
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203

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 22/12/2008 13:15:48
Similar to one comment above, when I was at school (a long time ago!) if I came home and my father discovered that I'd been belted, then I got another hammering from him. Maybe it's time to stop all this namby pamby nonsense - bring back the belt, bring back the birch, bring back approved schools. None of this totally useless social work involvement - not that any such involvemnt appears to have done any ggod here.
These two wee nyaffs need sorted out - fast - before they destroy another teacher's career. Hopefully, the Appeal Court will throw this conviction in the bin where it belongs.
204

,

22/12/2008 13:37:05
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205

SOFBTRC,

Far, far from Glasgow 22/12/2008 16:19:40
Mike Barile could have beaten these little neds to within an inch of their lives - make no mistake. If I had been in his position, I'd have snapped. I would have knocked them senseless. Mike Barile showed remarkable restraint in being as kind to these neds as he was. They don't deserve his leniency, but they got it.

The support Mike Barile has received from the powers-that-be has been utterly pathetic. Under the stewardship of the local education authority, discipline in Dundee schools has gone to hell in a handcart. There is no doubt whatsoever that the blame for this situation lies primarily with the parents of these pupils. Uneducated Neanderthals who know every social security scam going, and every "right" that they and their obnoxious offspring enjoy in this spineless and ned-friendly society. All the rights and none of the responsibilities. Unemployed and unemployable. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Since these parents have failed miserably in bringing up children who are respectful of those deserving respect, it then falls upon the shoulders of the local education authority to ensure that the rights of those pupils who want an education are not infringed by the knuckle-dragging neds. If my child had been in Mr. Barile's classroom during these disruptions, I would proceed with a civil lawsuit against the neds, their parents, the school and the education authority for failing to provide my child with an environment conducive to learning. Hit them in the pocket - that seems to be one of the few things that these pontificating idiots will respond to. That would only have to happen once for the education authority to review how these neds are dealt with. As things stand, they just aren't dealt with.

If you are one of these neds, or any other ned or nedette who finds the behaviour of these morons amusing, let me point something out to you.

Education is important. You only have one chance at it. I worked hard at school. I have three university
206

SOFBTRC,

Far, far from Glasgow 22/12/2008 16:20:37
(/continued)

degrees. I live in a very nice house with my lovely family, I drive a very nice car and I make an awful lot of money. I can buy anything I want and go anywhere I want. I travel all over the world with my job. The work I publish is read by thousands of people all over the world. I am somebody.

Right now, you are a nobody. You have no qualifications. No job. You won't get any decent references from your school. You likely won't get a decent job. You might get no job at all. You'll probably live on a low income, in a damp cold flat somewhere. No quality of life. Nothing to look forward to. You might get into drugs. Start stealing to feed your habit. Finish up in jail, or dead before you're 50. And as you sit in your urine-stained clothes, cold and alone, pneumonia sucking the last breath out of you, at least you'll be able to look back with pride and say "Eh never wasted meh life - ehbody thought eh was funny as f*** and eh got Mike Barile suspended".

Brilliant. Glad you made something of your life.

The sum total of your useful contribution to mankind will be as compost.

Get a life, you idiots.
207

,

22/12/2008 16:30:08
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208

SOFBTRC,

Far, far from Glasgow 22/12/2008 16:44:37
#231

Silly? Care to expand?

I'd say that anyone expressing the view that corporal punishment in schools did not, and would not, work, in light of how far downhill things have gone since the belt was abolished, might be seen as "silly".
209

,

23/12/2008 01:27:32
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