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SNP has a tax shock for a quarter of students, warns Labour



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Published Date: 01 June 2008
By Murdo MacLeod
Political Correspondent
TENS of thousands of students who do not pay council tax could be charged under the SNP's scheme for a local income tax, according to Labour.
Opposition MSPs have highlighted figures published by ministers, which show that a quarter of Scottish students in full-time education would be liable for the new charge, because of the amount they earn in part-time jobs.

The Nationalists' plan fo
r a local income tax of up to 3p in the pound has been at the centre of controversy over claims that the levy would penalise working families, and that it might not even be legal for the Scottish Parliament to impose such a charge.

In a Scottish Parliamentary written answer, which was answered by Finance Secretary John Swinney, the Scottish Government said: "The total number of full-time students in Scottish institutions in 2006–07 was 228,795. Initial estimates, using earnings-related data for full-time students, indicated that perhaps around three-quarters of these would not earn sufficient to bring them over the level of the personal (income tax) allowance.

"The number who would be liable at the time of introduction of a local income tax would, of course, depend on the level of the personal allowance at that time."

According to Labour, the answer implies that 55,759 Scottish students would be liable for the local income tax.

Claire Baker, Scottish Labour's higher education spokeswoman, said: "The SNP seems to be letting students down left, right and centre.

"Alex Salmond has tried to claim in the past that his proposals for a local income tax will not hit students, but these figures show the truth.

"Currently less than 3% of full-time students are liable for council tax, but under the SNP's plans this will rise to a quarter – over 50,000.

"But ministers rejected the criticisms. A Scottish Government spokesman said: "The vast majority of full-time Scottish students will pay absolutely nothing under a local income tax, because they earn less than the income tax threshold.

"A student receiving the minimum wage would have to work more than 21 hours a week for 52 weeks before having to pay."





The full article contains 373 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 31 May 2008 8:25 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Council tax
 
1

Senga Jean,

Scotland 01/06/2008 00:39:58
Many years ago when I was a student in the free years I also earned enough to pay income tax AND National Insurance (which I was grateful for later). BIG DEAL; Being taxed means you are earning a good living.
2

FM in Dundee,

01/06/2008 00:43:53
More scaremongering and lies from the New Labour party.

We're not falling for it anymore. The SNP government has done so much more for students than Labour ever have.
3

Jimmy the Pie,

01/06/2008 00:47:45
All this drivel from a failing newspaper and a collapsing political party.

When will the penny drop that the Union has had its day.

Time for independence

Time to stand up and show some dignity and self belief.

www.snp.org
4

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 01/06/2008 00:59:22
Oh, Murdo, Murdo, Murdo.

What exactly are you journalistsy people so afraid of?
5

Conan the Librarian™,

01/06/2008 01:02:51
4
Their Editor?
6

DouglasT,

01/06/2008 01:06:44
What strikes me about this episode is that the SNP have responded HONESTLY. I find myself wondering, given recent history, what kind of spin Labour would have used in any response. The memory of the lies and deceit issuing from Alexander, Gordon et al over the funds for a non-leadership 'campaign' are still fresh in my mind. As is the impotence (or collusion?) of the Electoral Commission.
7

Guga II,

Rockall 01/06/2008 01:35:05
#2. Totally agree. I don't remember the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (North British Branch) doing much for students.
8

subrosa,

01/06/2008 01:39:53
This is a re-run. Does this paper go through a file of past articles and say eeny, meeny, miney, mo? Et voila - today's rehash according to their masters the labour party.

Shame on you Murdo MacLeod.
9

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 01:43:16
I really don't think Labour are in a position to criticize anyone over tax rises, given their horrendous record of the last 10 years. Is there anyone who's not been screwed over by Brown?
10

Matt there,

somewhere 01/06/2008 03:27:11
Murdo. A word to the wise. Don't copy and paste Labour press releases. It makes you look cheap.
11

democracy,

Scottish Borders 01/06/2008 03:56:30
Scotland on Sunday says "SNP has a tax shock for a quarter of students, warns Labour"

Two points here, The Scotland on Sunday and Labour,
both feverishly anti-SNP, no more to be said really!!
12

Willie Macleod,

Wick 01/06/2008 04:20:02
Is it safe to be anti-SNP what do you think
13

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 01/06/2008 04:46:08
Does anyone believe anything that labour say's anymore?? If you do please stand up, if your dumb enough....
14

,

01/06/2008 05:03:45
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15

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 01/06/2008 05:51:47
Forget this local icome tax nonsense. It's going to be poll tax II.
16

Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

01/06/2008 06:51:14
Vote for SNP!

Vote for more taxes.

(Senga thinks thats ok because they are "SNP taxes". Laughable, just like all her posts).
17

Mikey,

01/06/2008 07:33:42
Hmmm, I see Liebour's 'gruesome twosome' have woken up! Back to sleep you two and dream of genuflecting before Gordo.
18

Jwil,

01/06/2008 07:51:24
This all sounds like an Andy Kerr sound byte. Who would believe a word he says after the PFI debacle?
19

,

01/06/2008 07:54:27
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20

Linda,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 08:03:48
Students have the same tax allowances as the rest of us and would have to work 20 to 25 hours every week of the year to any even £1 in Local Income Tax in any financial yearu. Students will have to pay £33 in tax to UK government for every £1 paid in LIT. So who is really punishing students. Has Labour thought this through?
21

Marian,

01/06/2008 08:25:40
Exaggeration, deception, distortion and lies are all propaganda tools of "Perception Managemen".

In the words of Josef Goebbels. Hitler’s propaganda chief:-

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

It's very clear that New Labour's strategy consists solely of trying to put fear of the Scottish National Party into the electorate's minds. However New Labour's propaganda claims have been so outrageous that they appear to have turned Scots voter's off from listening to New Labour.

Typical of their propaganda campaign is the fact that they have made no attempt whatsoever to provide any hard factual evidence to justify their claim that every Scots family will have to pay more in tax when the Scottish National Party Local Income Tax is introduced.
22

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 01/06/2008 08:28:12
A silly story: only rich students will have to pay LIT.

How many students will work that many hours anyway?

However LIT is a silly tax. Land Value Tax is FAR superior.
23

frank mcbride,

lusitania 01/06/2008 08:38:39
To put things in perspective, for students to pay more, over their 4yrs, than they were paying under NuLabour, they would have to be earn in the region of £25 000/yr.

How many full-time students are earning this amount? I would suggest, NONE!!!

Even Parliamentary Researcher full-time student sons of Tory MPs don't earn that much.
24

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 09:02:47
23

You still havent answered a single question concerning Land Value Tax put to you in other blogs so until you can find the answers dont keep making the same "silly" statements.
25

Guga II,

Rockall 01/06/2008 09:17:08
#25. That's because he doesn't own any land in Scotland, nor is he Scottish.
26

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 09:23:29
26

He is not a Federalist either he wants Scotland to give up its national identity to officially become an English region. A real Federalist would want Scotland to join a real Federation which it can only do of course from a position of Independence.
He is just another fake.
27

Senga Jean,

01/06/2008 09:40:13
#17 I see little to laugh at for someone saying they would accept a FAIR tax. You really are a WIND UP MERCHANT. And yes I think I will vote SNP because they are currently the only non Unionist and pro Scottish party.
28

tartan army 2222,

01/06/2008 09:50:18
Surely the most important statement in this piece (and the bt that MacLeod should have focussed on) is:

"A student receiving the minimum wage would have to work more than 21 hours a week for 52 weeks before having to pay."

Once again, however, this unionist mouthpiece focusses on a completely unsubstantiated bit of scaremongering put out by a party which sees the best form of staving off death as attack. Here's a thing Murdo - try citing a source outwith the Nu Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party. Otherwise it becomes propaganda.
29

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 09:50:53
23

Here you go ya fake have a look at this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_the_Netherlands

This is what you are proposing for us in place of Independence.
30

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 10:04:52
Students who live in rented accomodation are of course not exempt from council tax.
Landlords add on the cost of council tax into the rent charge.
31

roughrider,

Glasgow 01/06/2008 10:37:43
Another day another scaremongering piece of liebour krap.The sleaze and corruption party have nowt to offer
but lies and deceit labour are a spent force not to be taken seriously.
Labour lies dont work anymore, WE HAVE SUSSED YOU LYING SCUMBAGS OUT.
32

Calvinist,

01/06/2008 10:40:39
Why do any of you read The Scotsman? I don't like the views an opinions of the Daily Mail- I don't read it. We still live in a country where it is not compulsory to read propaganda. If you want to read articles that reinforce your views and opinions why not get the SNP to start it's own newspaper. You could call it Pravda Schatlandia. I'm sure some of the rich ex-pats who support you cause would be more than happy to finance this- after all if what you say is true thje entire population of Scotland will be queuing up to buy it. Or will you just miss the daily whinge?
33

Calvinist,

01/06/2008 10:52:57
Swinney: "estimates, using earnings-related data for full-time students, indicated that perhaps around three-quarters of these would not earn sufficient to bring them over the level of the personal (income tax) allowance."
A 'minister': A student receiving the minimum wage (note the word minimum) would have to work more than 21 hours a week for 52 weeks before having to pay."

QED: 25% of scottish students work more than 21 hours a week for 52 weeks. Official SNP figures. Who can't add up then?


Swinney: "The number who would be liable at the time of introduction of a local income tax would, of course, depend on the level of the personal allowance at that time." What does this mean? It can mean anything you like. Sinister.
34

Rasco,

Inverness 01/06/2008 10:56:10
Will someone tell me where to send my £5000 Labour said I would have to pay for voting SNP, maybe Wendy's account.
35

,

01/06/2008 10:56:12
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36

GM,

01/06/2008 10:57:13
@33
"I don't like the views an opinions of the Daily Mail"

and

"I don't read it"

I take from these statements that you get someone else to read out to you the views of the Daily Mail in order that you can avoid reading it?


I've seen your type of post from another contributor a while back - in fact - its almost identical so I will assume this is the same person with a different login name.

Its not compulsory to read it, but by god, its been a fantastic year (plus) breaking apart every piece of lying propoganda this journal prints and getting a better sense of reality rather than just pro-union slavers.
37

Lance Boyle,

Linlithgow 01/06/2008 11:02:22
When current non Council Tax payers discover that they have to pay the new tax, there will be uproar. The SNP have been economical with the truth - yet again.
38

Mike555,

01/06/2008 11:04:37
Why can't the opposition come up with decent arguments instead of the crap they are currently trying to make us believe.

Labour should mount a campaign for a Forth Tunnel as opposed to a bridge that is more expensive, will close in bad weather and take years longer to build and finally, will start corroding from day one. Now that's an argument to get your teeth into Wendy.
39

walter,

01/06/2008 11:08:59
In a Scottish Parliamentary written answer, which was answered by Finance Secretary John Swinney, the Scottish Government said: "The total number of full-time students in Scottish institutions in 2006–07 was 228,795. Initial estimates, using earnings-related data for full-time students, indicated that perhaps around three-quarters of these would not earn sufficient to bring them over the level of the personal (income tax) allowance.

But ministers rejected the criticisms. A Scottish Government spokesman said: "The vast majority of full-time Scottish students will pay absolutely nothing under a local income tax, because they earn less than the income tax threshold.

using earnings-related data for full-time students, indicated that perhaps around three-quarters
The vast majority of full-time Scottish students

?
40

,

01/06/2008 11:10:22
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41

GM,

01/06/2008 11:13:12
@38
The SNP have been entirely open on the plans for the tax - if someone is too stupid to understand the consequences of the change then thats down to them.

@39
Because arguing about the bridge/tunnel is not a 'decent argument' - Wendy knows that if she even goes there she will be ripped apart. Labour weren't even mooting the idea of a new crossing in all the time they had in power (let alone removing tolls). The argument also is not as clear cut as you indicate - there are various technical and geophysical reasons why the tunnel was not chosen. I'm sure if it had been as straightforward as you suggest then it would have been preferred.
42

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 01/06/2008 11:15:45
55,759 Scottish students would be liable to pay LIT according to Labour.

Can we please see the detail behind this figure Murdo? I assume you have the detail if you are happy to report the figure without comment.
43

Boggle fey the Bog,

01/06/2008 11:16:52
30 Commited to Independence,Scotland 01/06/2008 09:50:53

I would just ignore Rulesbutnotrulers,Federation, not separation, his/her/it's rants about 'Federalism' are not substansive, his 'Great Federations' have all but collapsed, Jugoslavia, Chezkoslovakia, Belgium to name but a few.

As for his 'Land Value Tax' that would suggest if you don't own any land you would not pay any 'Tax'.

Just another failed Onionist airhead, with nothing constructive to say, like the majority of the Onionista's on this thread.

44

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 11:18:21
Once again this is a COULD happen situation.

Unionists never tire of words like 'could' 'might' 'may' and all the other words which signify possible developments, however unlikely.

Happily voters in Scotland seem to prefer to wait and see what happens before making a judgement, if the polls are to be believed.
45

Commited to Independence,

Scotsman 01/06/2008 11:24:47
33

Lies, falsehoods, corruption and disinformation should always be challanged especially within a democracy or even a pretend democracy not left unanswered.
46

,

01/06/2008 11:46:18
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47

Sedov,

Scotland 01/06/2008 11:55:26
Yes , the SNP pre election promises are in tatters and their incompetence if economic affars is being exposed more and more. They will drag it out for a few more years of course before they are relegated to the dustbin of history.
48

Walter Ego,

Durness 01/06/2008 11:56:23
What about the Council Tax freeze?
49

Publius,

London 01/06/2008 12:00:16
What about student nurses? I thought they were salaried and paid tax and national insurance. So they will pay LIT too.
Also apprentices are currently exempt from council tax. They will pay LIT as well.
50

Publius,

London 01/06/2008 12:04:56
#41 Tunnels are just as dubious as bridges. Vehicle accidents and fires close tunnels for long periods - the Channel Tunnel, Mont Blanc and St Gotthard have all been closed following fires.
What matters is to get a second Forth crossing a.s.a.p. Where the SNP is wrong is funding it out of the general budget. Major projects should be funded from the revenue they generate - i.e. tolls.
51

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 01/06/2008 12:09:31
#44 Boogle.

You are confused! The failed federations you describe are/were all enforced ones. You could have added the Central African Fed of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.

The US, Canada, Switzerland, etc all thrive. So will Fed of GB.
52

,

01/06/2008 12:09:52
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53

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 01/06/2008 12:18:16
#25 & #26 Guga and Committed.

I do own land in Scotland. I am both Scottish and British (as most of us here are, like it or not).

I am opposed to this Union.

Under LVT only landowners will pay this tax. They cannot avoid it. It will be high in prime areas and zero in national parks, etc. It will be up to the landlord to recoup this tax from his tenants. There is no reason to think anyone else will pay more than at present. Indeed legislation can prevent this. LVT ensures that second homes, empty homes, land banks, derelict sites, empty shops, etc, are taxed as if in full use. In this way these properties will be put back into use very smartly, or sold on to others who will so do.
54

Publius,

London 01/06/2008 12:25:05
#53 Wardog
Nowadays students work at much more than barwork. There are very few fulltime University students in the traditional sense. Today's students work their way through college as students have always done in the U.S.
The economy has structured itself around this. Department stores in cities, retail parks around every town and supermarkets everywhere use student labour at the weekends and other peak times. More than half the employees in Premier Inns (the biggest hotel chain) are full time students. Without the pool of university and college students to fill these jobs, a large part of the economy would collapse.
55

Publius,

London 01/06/2008 12:31:22
Just a thought ... but one SNP policy won't survive independence. That's free University education. An independent Scotland in the EU won't be able to discriminate against English students by charging them. There'll be a stampede of English students aheading for Scottish Universities.
56

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 12:32:45
54

And where is the fairness in that? how is it based on ability to pay? who pays for LVT within a block of flats? you still havent answered any of these basic questions and I doubt you even can.
57

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 12:34:05
56

English students would be classified and foreign students within an Independent Scotland why wouldnt they? and why would they be treated any different from any other EU student studying in Scotland?
58

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 01/06/2008 12:34:51
#57. LVT is paid by the land owner. Who owns the flats you refer to? Tell, and thereby answer you own question.
59

,

01/06/2008 12:35:49
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60

Publius,

London 01/06/2008 12:42:16
#58 Committed ...
You're missing it. Students from EU countries other than the rest of the UK don't pay fees at Scottish Universities (because under EU rules they must be treated the same way as Scottish students). Students from the rest of the UK do pay fees at Scottish Universities (because this is seen by the EU as a local variation within a member state). Come independence within the EU English students at Scottish Universities will have to be treated identically with Scottish Universities.
61

,

01/06/2008 12:43:33
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62

,

01/06/2008 12:50:09
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63

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 12:53:25
59

The flat owners own the flats but they obviously dont own the ground they are situated on now do they?
64

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 12:55:08
59

Now how about it not being based on ability to pay and therefore how can it be classified as a fair taxation system?
65

beckypumps1,

Fife 01/06/2008 12:57:39
Labour in trouble with the bailiffs due to impending bankrupts warn the SNP.

This paper is getting as bad as the Herald!
66

,

01/06/2008 12:57:55
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67

bill inch,

EDINBURGH 01/06/2008 12:58:43
Oh wait a minute we will have to pay. don't like it anymore. Maggie Maggie Maggie oi oi oi.
68

bushy eyebrows,

fife 01/06/2008 13:02:19
the labour person claire baker mentioned above voted against ending the student graduate scheme that has benefited students by £2000

anyone doing that and complaining about a local income tax is a bare faced hypocrite

labour and hypocrasy? naw

69

Boggle fey the Bog,

01/06/2008 13:03:21
52 Rulesbutnotrulers,Federation, not separation 01/06/2008 12:09:31
#44 Boogle.

You are confused! The failed federations you describe are/were all enforced ones. You could have added the Central African Fed of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.

The US, Canada, Switzerland, etc all thrive. So will Fed of GB.

I think not, I have already given you the historic background of those federations, including Belgium, but you still insist that they were 'enforced' and by association then so is the Belgian Federation, you also forget the Italian Federation, and the Germanic one both of which were enforced, one by Garibaldi the other by Bismark, but then again the truth never has fitted within your detritus

You really don't have a clue about what you are talking about, do you.
As I said before you are a numptie, an agent provocateur, a sorry excuse for a life.

There is only one federation that will work for Scotland The Nation that always has been and always will be older than England, is Independence.
70

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 13:06:49
61

Is there a problem with that?
71

radge dug,

01/06/2008 13:07:47
Labour scaremongering? Again?
72

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 01/06/2008 13:09:16
#64 Committed.

Under Scots Law one owns the land. If there happens to be a flat on top of it then one owns that, too. Flat owners mutually own their curtelage. LVT is paid proportionally
73

Rasco,

Inverness 01/06/2008 13:10:18
Just heard a Labour Party broadcast on the Politics Show by Darling what a smug person
74

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 13:11:12
52

So what is your objection to an Independent Scotland joining the Federations of the US or Canada or Switzerland if they are so successful? why MUST Scotland only consider giving up its nationality in order to become a Federal region within and English dominated GB? If we have to give up our nationality then surely the US or Canadian options are far more preferable than being tied to a tiny wee country like England?
75

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 13:15:44
73

So basically its just another property tax and not a land tax at all. Is the value of the so called land tax based on the size of the land or the amount of properties on that land? in other words a multi story block of flats would take up only what 50m2 of land and hold a couple of hundred properties of different sizes and numbers of occupants compared with a single household or farm taking up acres of land. So who pays more and why?
76

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 13:24:06
Fakey Fed

Until people pay of their mortgage debt it is the mortgage lender who ultimatly owns the property and land under it so I take it a REAL Land value tax should be charged to the mortgage lenders and not the occupiers of the mortgaged properties?
77

kimba,

01/06/2008 13:31:06
74. No smugger than salmond! and he's entitled to be,he holds the purse strings.
78

Rob - Honest Toun,

01/06/2008 13:47:46
Dae ye mind the time afore the last election when we war aw telt bi Labour an the media that if the SNP got elected it wad cost every faimly in the land £5000?

Daes ony o the SOS readers ken onybody in Scotland that haes haed tae pey that siller up till noo?
79

b.allan,

alba 01/06/2008 14:07:48
Murdo, how much are labour paying you to write this drivel?
80

b.allan,

alba 01/06/2008 14:09:22
74 - i agree with you. Also what is this habit Glen has got of interrupting Mr Swinney?It's really very rude treatment.
81

Green booger,

01/06/2008 14:34:10
Ha, ha, ha.

Should've voted UKIP!
82

tartan army 2222,

01/06/2008 14:53:02
34 Calvinist

*****QED: 25% of scottish students work more than 21 hours a week for 52 weeks. Official SNP figures. Who can't add up then?*****

When I was at uni (full-time) I was one of the heaviest workers as I had a family and mortgage. I was probably working about 20 hours per week. But let's say for the sake of argument that the figures are correct. The fact is that very few would be working much more than 20 hours. All those on 22 and 23 hours will simply work a couple less hours and get rid of the burden of Council Tax. So 25% may be accurate but it is not an accurate reflection of how things WILL be.
83

,

01/06/2008 15:10:43
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84

THE TROLL HUNTER,

01/06/2008 15:28:15
Notice how this rag has aparatchiks with names like Murdo and Hamish. Most of them are Anglo's and Sassenachs drafted in to defend the Yooo Kay.

What a pity they are destroying a once fine paper in their pathetic useless task.
85

lilywhite,

borders 01/06/2008 15:42:21
Can anyone please answer these questions.

1 Do most students live in flats/houses.
2 If so do they pay council tax on that flat either directly, or as part of there rent to the landlord.
3 Do they pay this even if they do no work at all.
4 How many hours a week on minimum wage do you need to work before paying income tax(allowing for rebates).

86

lilywhite,

borders 01/06/2008 15:47:24
Given that the Labour government has introduced more hidden taxes in the last 11 years, than even their most fervent opponent could have predicted, what right have they to criticise the SNP for trying to introduce a fair tax that you only pay when earning and dont pay if you become unemployed disabled or incapacitated.
87

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 01/06/2008 15:50:22
#76 Committed.

I'm sorry you are stooping to personal abuse and namd calling.

The value of land is determined largely by the demand for it. A block of flats is clearly on land demanded by a number of people, thus it is more valuable, thus its owners share the LVT. The LVT is set by the Council or Government according to its perception of value and appropriate use. A renter of a house pays no LVT. LVT is paid by its actual owner. The latter may then seek to claw back this sum from the lessee, or more likely it will be built up front into the rent.
88

brownlie,

01/06/2008 15:58:30
Rules etc

Congratulations on your persistence which enabled this pathetic attempt at journalism to engender 80 odd postings and I hope you are properly rewarded.

As far as your aspirations for either federalism or LVT are concerned I feel that in accordance with my learned friend Highland Mighty's description of independence they are "dead ducks".
89

Sedov,

Scotland 01/06/2008 16:00:10
#86 Lily - students are exempt from paying council tax within the academic year but are liable to pay ct outwith this and council tax is means tested thus based on the amount of income earned outwith the acadamic year. Income tax is based on earnings regardless of how many hours you work and students would be liable to pay income tax within the academic year if they were earning above the tax threshold which is determined by your tax code. On your #87 - would you class anyone who does not need to work because the have loads of money as unemployed thus not liable to pay tax, this includes rich disabled and incapacitated people? And no matter what government is in power ( take off your yellow and black glasses for a second) does any party or individual have the right to criticise any tax proposals that seem unfair? Of course we do -its called democracy.
90

lilywhite,

borders 01/06/2008 16:18:04
90.Sedov
Fair answer to my question.
But how does this work in say a mixed flat where 2 people work and 2 are students.Does that property still get a smaller council tax bill do the students pay and claim the rebate from the 400 million rebate from westminster or are the 2 in work expected to pay the full bill .These are genuine questions as I have a child going to Uni soon.I do not have black and yellow specs but genuinly believe LIT is a fairer system of tax ,however the more it is debated the more it is obvious that it will require to be adapted so as not punish people like studentsnor let those who live of income from shares etc to get off Scot free.
It would be better in the end if all the parties spent more time coming up with a better system rather than just slagging their opponents(and yes I include myself in that).
Finally my point on labours critiscm refers to the fact that they have introduced many taxes that people donT even realise they are paying and are not in any shape or form based on ability to pay
91

antp,

UK 01/06/2008 16:46:55
Everyone on here is forgetting something. If students have to pay tax then how are they going to pay for their drink? That will kill the Scottish economy... surely?
92

Jwil,

01/06/2008 17:28:33
Students would only be required to pay tax if they work for at least 21 hours a week for a whole year. That doesn't sound unreasonable, does it?

Interrupting John Swinney whilst letting Darling have an easy time. Aye Glenn Campbell is a prat.

93

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 17:29:49
88

I am not being abusive simply descriptive.
You have very accurately described a property tax.
So LVT is just a watered down version of the council tax without the banding. LVT is paid by the owner of a property not the owner of a piece of land. Nobody who lives within a block of flats owns the land the block of flats sits on.
You are clueless in both your alleged support for LVT and Federalism. You are either very simple minded or all of this posturing by you is a lie and you are only here to stir the sh1t.
94

Sanny,

01/06/2008 17:34:55
28 Senga Jean
Whilst I agree with most of you comments you are not quite correct when you say “SNP are currently the only non Unionist and pro Scottish party.” There is also an embryonic Scottish Party that registered just before the 2007 Election viz: Scottish Enterprise Party. They have a right of centre political stance. In addition to supporting Scottish Independence the also want us out of the EU.

On a personal note I would continue to support the SNP as the best chance of getting out of this unwanted Union. Now is not the time to divide our forces.
95

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 01/06/2008 18:03:54
Slowly but surely the wheels are coming off the SNP minibus.
96

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 01/06/2008 18:05:07
97

Come off it Sanny. You are a Tory at heart and will return to your spiritual home in the near future.
97

Patrick O'Reilly,

Coatbridge 01/06/2008 18:05:44
96

Committed, you should be.
98

Green booger,

01/06/2008 18:11:49
The SNP, just another socialist nationalist party.

We need a proper, independent opposition. The only one I can thnk of is UKIP.

Did you know that the Irish are holding their EU referendum on June 12th? Turned on the TV ths morning and BBC news presenters were covering a 'news story' about giving cuddly toys to inner city kids! You won't hear the BBC discuss the Irish vote. The 'yes' campaign is getting massive funding.

Don't truct the mainstream media. They are owned by the Establishment.

Try
www.infowars.com
99

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 18:22:48
92

Nobody in their right mind would even attempt to make a living from share dividends. Just another bullsh!t arguement dreamed up against LIT.
There is no real arguement against it which is why we have this blog and its nonsense to comment on instead of real debating material.
100

dancingbear,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 18:38:52
Students working more than 21 hrs per week will likely be the poorest students among us. Also, a lot of the more vocational degrees support work experience from 6 months to 1 years placement. It is all well and good those like Senga Jean making comments while the government at the time afforded them free further education but for the likes of those to whom every penny counts it would be a nice wee break not to have to pay LIT while they stick in the extra hours. I for example described myself when I was at Uni as a part-time student on a full time course given the amount of hours I had to work to pay myself through Uni. A student in Edin has to pay a fortune in rent and with the rising fuel costs again it would be better for the SNP to make these people NT tax code payers full stop.
101

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 18:54:54
103

That fortune in rent yer on about includes the cost of council tax.
102

dancingbear,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 18:58:15
Students are non CTax payers.
103

Sedov,

Scotland 01/06/2008 19:31:30
#91 -yes, under a truly communist society which no country has yet created. ( unfortunately) #92 Lily - Council tax liability falls to everyone within the rules, the amount they pay is determined by the local authority as a precentage on the property depending on the tax band and each liable individual within that property either pays the full share, or gets a , part or full rebate according to their income and status, and some people, depending on their circumstance are exempt. Thus if four people rented a flat and two were students, , the landlord, if not living in that flat would give details of the tenants to the LA who would determine the liability of the tenants by the form that they have to fill in and each tenant would be liable for 25% of the ct levied on that property. the two working would eash pay the 25% of the total and the students nought. The LA would claim the difference ( 50%) from the govt - just like CT benefit. ( and housing benefit)
104

Wynn,

CLYDESDALE 01/06/2008 19:54:02
Just read the last two paragraphs of the article which show once more the Labour belief they can harvest votes by frightening people.

Cry WOLF!
105

Derick fae Yell,

The Hoose on the Land 01/06/2008 20:08:06
thanks to Rulesbutnotrulers and Committed to Independence for debate on Land Value Tax. Committed comes out on top - LVT is just Cooncil Tax by anidder name.

AM2 I thought you had gone away?
106

dancingbear,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 20:13:16
#90, Sedov council tax is not payable by students outwith the academic year. Each educational establishment provides its local authority with a list of all their registered students and the local authority then applies the appropriate exemption from council tax for the full fiscal year unless 1 or all of the students leave the chosen course. The student regsiters for council tax at the address, they advise the local authority that they are a full time student i.e. attend a course for more than 20 hrs per week, the local authority checks the list they received from the uni/college and then automatically awards the exmeption or discount depending on the heirachical relationship in the household. Even if you are on a years paid full-time placement through your univeristy you are still exempt from paying council tax.
107

dancingbear,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 20:15:53
#108,so why not go back to the old rating system?
108

,

01/06/2008 20:47:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
109

dancingbear,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 20:53:15
#111, is this your style of Independence?
110

Commited to Independence,

Scotland 01/06/2008 20:54:56
105

In name only they still pay council tax through their rent.
111

dancingbear,

Edinburgh 01/06/2008 21:12:35
#113, sorry I believe you to be incorrect as the flat I rented while a student did not include council tax as it was relet to non students and council tax was seperate. I also, many years ago, used to work in the council tax office and very few properties that were rented were inclusive of council tax.
112

Buckpool Loon,

Cheshire 01/06/2008 21:15: