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Published Date: 19 May 2009
NEARLY £30,000 was spent exhibiting a replica tram on Princes Street this year.
Around 74,000 people visited the tram between February and April, making it one of the busiest visitor attractions in Scotland.

Council chiefs spent £13,300 on installation, haulage, security and cleaning and a further £14,800 on hoardings and display panels.

The mock-up is currently on display in Constitution Street.





The full article contains 71 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 May 2009 9:52 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh transport plans
 
1

me150,

19/05/2009 10:21:28
Money well spenty to show the people of Edinburgh waht to expect.

The gloom merchants will say otherwise of course.
2

Navvy,

19/05/2009 10:41:03
agreed, at less than 50P per visitor and falling it is a good notion
3

Old Cartha Boy,

19/05/2009 10:58:03
Maybe visitors should pay?
4

eric,

lothian 19/05/2009 11:53:52
Typical us thinking small.Glasgow and london have Great subways,
5

Foo,

19/05/2009 11:54:17
I hope the anti trammers don’t howl in protest at this, as it was these very people who were laughing and encouraging vandalism of the mock up and has surely contributed to these security and cleaning costs.

We'll never know, but it would be interesting to find out how much extra these commenter’s cost the tram project with their ill thought out words.
6

,

19/05/2009 12:02:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

James (1),

19/05/2009 12:07:17
#5 I think #6 has you sussed?

The mock tram will be displayed in Constitution Street then will be moved up to the museum in Chambers Street as part of the display of relics.
8

Foo,

19/05/2009 12:08:12
Given your level of intellect and capacity for debate (I'm a knob, yeah nice one mate, how long did it take to think that one up), I wouldn't be surprised you did it because of what you read on these forums. You certainly come across as someone involved in petty crime and violence.
9

Foo,

19/05/2009 12:11:50
James

Just because you've lost the debate, and the trams are steam rollering ahead, you resort to petty little insults and agreeing with meat heads like #6.

10

Skip McClendon,

19/05/2009 12:12:09
Can we just stop this "one of the busiest visitor attractions in Scotland" mince?

How many folk visited Waverley Station, or the McDonalds on Princes Street during the same period? Does that make them "one of the busiest visitor attractions in Scotland" too?

Folk saw it there, and a few curious tourists and pensioners stopped and had a look, with the stats being propped up by 56,000 visits by Gorgie Tony. But one of the busiest tourists attractions in Scotland? Don't make me larf!
11

Foo,

19/05/2009 12:14:44
19 Skip.

If you had been, you'd realise that there is an entrance, exit and a man with a clicker couting how many pass through the tram.

Hardly people just stopping and having a look from the street.
12

Skip McClendon,

19/05/2009 12:17:32
#11

I passed by but didn't go in. Why would I? I know what a tram looks like.

The point is, it was smack bang in the middle of Edinburgh's main street. Of course people had a look! But the spin that it was attracting tourism is pure mince.
13

Foo,

19/05/2009 12:19:02
Skip

You disputed the figure. I'm simply saying, these people were counted and would have passed through the trams to have a look.

You wouldn't have been counted in those numbers as you didn't; they are reliable.
14

Skip McClendon,

19/05/2009 12:19:22
On a semi-related note, I see the police have arrested a pensioner for endangering cyclists during that race in Perthshire by scattering carpet tacks all over the race route.

Gorgie Tony on a nice day out, perhaps?
15

Pond Hall,

19/05/2009 12:23:04
so the £30k didn't come out of the tram budget
16

Skip McClendon,

19/05/2009 12:23:19
#13

Erm, no I didn't dispute the figure, Fooster.

I'm sure the wee man had 74,000 clicks on his wee counter. But this does not make the tram a popular "tourist" attraction. It means it was on a busy street that is used by way more than 74,000 people over a 2 month period, so it was always going to attract a few bored passer-by to wander in. But then so does the remaindered book store, and I wouldn't claim that was one of Scotland's top tourist attractions either.
17

Foo,

19/05/2009 12:25:37
14

Yesterday he explained where he got the 'top deck is best' idea from (straight from the horses mouth he had said)

He explained it was a woman he hadn't seen for 55 years great great grand daughters friend who overheard someone on the phone say it in the council buildings.

Haha.
18

Pond Hall,

19/05/2009 12:27:56
14 and how sad is he?

considering Many of the 3,500 cyclists taking part in the Etape Caledonia were raising money for Macmillan Cancer Support.
19

Foo,

19/05/2009 12:28:20
16

Oh, Ok then. I picked you up wrong.
20

Skip McClendon,

19/05/2009 12:33:12
#19

No probs. Not disputing the figures at all, just the popular "tourist attraction" spin that comes straight from the TIE press office.

Way more people use, for example, the bus station or the loos in McDonalds over a 2 month period, but no-one claims they are Scotland's top tourist attractions.

It is what it is - a mock tram, that had 74,000 folk through the door over a 2 month period. I'm fairly confident that the vast majority of these people were "passing trade" who were in the area anyway, not people who had specifically set out to visit the mock tram for a grand day out.
21

Skip McClendon,

19/05/2009 12:36:14
#17

THAT's GT source for his exclusive double-decker tram info?!? Jeez...glad he's on your side! ;-)
22

hibbywul,

19/05/2009 12:36:34
I happened to wander by one day and had a peek in, wouldn't class myself as a visitor though.
23

Foo,

19/05/2009 12:41:58
22 Fair enough. But at the end of the day you have to categorise the people who chose to have a look round as *something*

Perhaps they could have called them 'viewers', 'interested parties' or, as they did in this case 'visitors'
24

Skip McClendon,

19/05/2009 12:58:29
Just found GT's post explaining what he means by "straight from the horse's mouth"....classic stuff!

Some women he hasn't seen's grandaughter, who is a cleaner for the Cooncil, who heard from a guy who was installing a printer in a Councillor's office, that he heard one half of a phone conversation that featured the words "Double Deckers" and "Tram Route"?!?

Well there you go! It doesn't get any more concrete than that!

Not that I hate to rain on GT's parade or anything, but could this maybe just be some folk chatting about whether Lothian Buses' Double Deckers will continue to operate on certain parts of the tram route?
25

MoiraMac,

19/05/2009 13:01:12
I cant see the point of this replica tram! £30k would be better spent on something useful.

How do we know the clicker wasn't 'clocked'
If they wanted us to see what the tram looked like they could have created a computer generated replica tram at a fraction of the price.
I thought we had more than enough visitor attractions in Edinburgh, this is one of my favourites:
http://image10.webshots.com/11/9/52/64/180595264vrAExE_ph.jpg
26

James (1),

19/05/2009 13:08:49
#9 I don't think I lost any debate. The thing is the 4 of you who are the defenders of the tram will never admit this is a waste of money.
That reasons for this could range from it is your job to mental illness?
There is no dispute that the tram line is being completed sometime in the far future.
There is no dispute it will come in way over budget.
There is no dispute that bus services will be cut to make it appear profitable.
There is also no dispute that the majority in Edinburgh think it is a waste of money.
That is not a dig at you 4 but a fact.
The reason there was no a referendum on this hugely expensive folly was it would not have got the go ahead.
Not because the people of Edinburgh are not a wise and forward thinking as you claim to be but because they know it will never ever make a profit and will cost us dear for ever more. Not just for a year or two but for ever more. Standards of transport will have to drop and services sacrificed.
Still we will have a tram line whoopee!
27

Foo,

19/05/2009 13:18:11
Albert Einstein said;

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

Well James, inspite of your repeated assertions

*** The tram NETWORK continues to be built***
28

Incandescent,

19/05/2009 13:21:02
So, G-tone's "straight from the horse's mouth" turns out to be chinese whispers? (is it still ok to say that?) And to think he specifically stated a while back that he "was told by a councillor". Tsk, tsk Tony.

#10 Skip - "with the stats being propped up by 56,000 visits by Gorgie Tony"

More likely 56,000 failed attempts by Gorgie_Tony to clamber on to the roof of the model in his search for the mythical "top deck".
29

Incandescent,

19/05/2009 13:24:17
#27 Foo - It's not a "network", as you well know, so stop being disingenuous.
30

Foo,

19/05/2009 13:33:47
29

James makes all those baseless claims, and I'M being disingenuous.

That's why nobody agrees with you anti tram lot. Every single fact or figure is shouted down as being a lie.

You substitute facts with your own ideas, cook up half truths and formulate baseless opinions.

James says "There is also no dispute that the majority in Edinburgh think it is a waste of money."

How on earth could he possibly know that? Particulalry when he then goes on to moan that there's never been a vote!

Good grief.
31

Yonthing!,

19/05/2009 13:53:00
#1 "Money well spenty to show the people of Edinburgh waht to expect." (sic)

Yes, we all saw what to expect - no seats!!!!! In the length of the one unit shown, there are 12 seats - the same length as a 48 seat single deck bus. Pensioners beware.
32

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 19/05/2009 13:54:37
Foo said "the trams are steam rollering ahead" - aye, at pretty much the same pace as a steam roller!
33

Skip McClendon,

19/05/2009 14:01:49
#31

The pensioners will all be on the top-deck, with GT...
34

Incandescent,

19/05/2009 14:38:46
#30 Foo

"James says "There is also no dispute that the majority in Edinburgh think it is a waste of money."

How on earth could he possibly know that? "

I can't talk for James, but my personal experience is that I've only met one solitary person who is in favour of the project. He both lives and works on the route and even he freely admits that he supports it for purely selfish reasons. I have also overheard many people I don't know complaining about the project for different reasons, the most common being the cost and inconvenience for something that won't benefit them and the alterations to bus timetables and routes.

That's just my experience of course, but if it's even remotely indicative, then James is more than likely correct in his assertion.
35

Foo,

19/05/2009 14:45:29
35

My experience is exactly the opposite. Perhaps its because I and my friends are a different generation from you, perhaps we occupy lower or higher social levels, perhaps its because our bloomin dogs told us to think like that; what I wouldn't do though is project my personal experience onto the whole population of Edinburgh. That's just wrong.
36

Incandescent,

19/05/2009 14:52:26
#36 Foo

" My experience is exactly the opposite"

Now why am I not surprised by that?

"Perhaps its because I and my friends are a different generation from you, perhaps we occupy lower or higher social levels"

From previous discussions, I strongly suspect not.


"what I wouldn't do though is project my personal experience onto the whole population of Edinburgh. "

As I said, "That's just my experience of course, but if it's even remotely indicative, then James is more than likely correct in his assertion."
37

Foo,

19/05/2009 14:53:30
37

So why does your experience trump mine? Who decides whos experience is more valid?
38

Incandescent,

19/05/2009 15:14:43
#38 Foo

Now you're just havering. The clue is in this fragment:

"if it's even remotely indicative, then"

Didn't you do basic conditional logic at school? If/Then? No? Oh well. Never mind.
39

TramGremlin,

19/05/2009 15:19:09
hey that's 40p per passenger/visitor to go nowhere! - how much are they going to charge for the ones that move? (of course if they ever move which is unlikely as they'll run out of money at this rate)
40

Foo,

19/05/2009 16:03:09
39

Incandescent, after making me look like a total thicko with your brilliant high school educated logic, coupled with your unbiased projections of what your friends think onto the city population, and your silver tongued wit and charm that danced such an elegant dance right over my arguments, I think you could be right about the trams.

And by *silver tongued wit and charm* and *right*, I mean *dull headache inducing rants* and *wrong*
41

The Judge,

19/05/2009 16:34:57
The difference is the double decker bus will earn the city money, the MDF tramcar lost the city money!

How nice that The SNP/Lib Dem council can blow 30 grand of our cash on a model tram car. Before it opened on Princes St I had no idea what a tramcar looked like.
42

Skip McClendon,

19/05/2009 16:36:30
#42

You do know that Double Deckers buses have engines and that they can move, right?

The fibre-glass tram has neither of those....the real trams will costs ###slightly### more than £30,000 per unit...
43

Foo,

19/05/2009 16:45:38
I'd say £30 000 is cheap for a mock up, when you consider that a few holes in the ground outside the parliament cost £12 000
44

Foo,

19/05/2009 16:47:06
A police motorbike costs £200 000

Cost of running an esculator for a year @18 hours a day? £90 000

Cost of a fairly basic website? £5 000

45

Old Cartha Boy,

Anti - Foo land 19/05/2009 17:05:33
I know it has worked before but since the likes of FOO thrive/exist on the oxygen of responses to his mindless drivel - so let mine be the last on FOO - after that IGNORE him in all threads. Let's starve him out!

46

MoiraMac,

19/05/2009 17:06:29
#46 I don't know about the motorbike or the esculator but a basic website can cost as little as a fiver per annum and often provided free by your ISP. All you need is a basic knowledge of html.

Your website charges are fairly steep. I would be more than delighted to design and maintain a website for £500 per annum and if you talk nicely to me you could even get it a lot cheaper.
Your prices will perhaps be for those who have expense accounts!
47

MoiraMac,

19/05/2009 17:13:47
#47 Sorry! I posted before I saw your request. Attention Seekers should be starved! Which makes me think I'm pretty peckish myself. I'm off to make fish & chips! I might have a Stella to wash it down. Cheers.

Anyone want a website?
48

,

19/05/2009 17:14:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
49

Foo,

19/05/2009 17:16:27
48, yeah possibly. I actually meant for a business, which may be a bit more in depth than a kind of non-pro design.

But you're right, £500 is about what the home user would pay.

Just ignore Old Cartha Boy, he's a newcomer to this site that has it in for me because I dare contradict his opinion.
50

tumshie heid,

19/05/2009 17:28:12
Cartha boy, how dare you voice an opinion when you haven't been on here as long as others. The bare faced cheek you have!! (The man is a goat isn't he?)
51

Incandescent,

19/05/2009 17:52:01
#55 G-Tone

I had a good old laugh at your definition of "straight from the horse's mouth", i.e. 4th hand tittle-tattle about one side of a conversation.
52

Incandescent,

19/05/2009 17:54:36
#55 G-Tone

Top-notch intelligence skils you have there Tony. Was your "was pistol" a Welrod?
53

Incandescent,

19/05/2009 17:54:49
skills
54

TramGremlin,

19/05/2009 18:03:34
#51

who do you get to design your websites - TIE?
...and holes in the ground are far more useful at half the price of a pretendy tram!
55

AB_R,

19/05/2009 19:42:14
If you look at the article, it doesn't actually say how much was spent on the construction of the cardboard tram on display.

As an aside, we are paying £50 Million for the trams themselves, as well as tying ourselves into one supplier as the trams the Clowncillors want have to be unique to Edinburgh.

Also, only in Edinburgh will 100+ year technology is called modernisation.
56

Foo,

19/05/2009 20:47:46
tumshie heid

It wasn't any opinion. It was him slagging me off because I DARE disagree with him.

You're just as bad though. idiot.
57

James (1),

20/05/2009 00:04:57
To repeat Foo #6 has you sussed!
Your comment at #27, did you get a bit confused there?
I said “There is no dispute that the tram line is being completed sometime in the far future.”
And your quick witted retort was “Well James, inspite of your repeated assertions
*** The tram NETWORK continues to be built***”
Did you misunderstand what I meant when I said the tram line is being completed etc.
Was I being too vague? You stick with the handle Foo because Einstein you are not.
58

James (1),

20/05/2009 00:16:49
#30 “James says "There is also no dispute that the majority in Edinburgh think it is a waste of money."
How on earth could he possibly know that? Particulalry when he then goes on to moan that there's never been a vote!”
I am using two things to come to my conclusion, three really if you count common sense.
One - the number of people I have spoken to who to a person do not want this tram line. They are not saying this to make me feel good, that is their genuine free will belief.
Two – the number of people on this site who do not want this tram line VASTLY outnumber those that do. Now if you deny that then you will make yourself look an absolute fool because everyone knows this to be a fact.
Now whilst neither is conclusive proof it is relative in that YOU can only deny point one by saying the opposite. You cannot however deny point two. You can come up with banal excuses as to why a pro tram supporter would not write in but as with most of your facts they are guesses. There have been many on here who have given excellent reasons why this will fail but that does not matter to you?
59

James (1),

20/05/2009 00:20:42
#41 Well done Foo, once more if the going gets a wee bit tough then out come the insults. True orator? Can you speak this nonsense in any other language?
60

Foo,

20/05/2009 09:09:23
James, #41 was just a wee joke. The rest of my posts are my point of view. Why is it you get so wound up because I disagree with you? Chill out, trams aren't worth a heart attack!
61

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 20/05/2009 11:53:29
#62, No, GT's not allowed to have anything to do with children; lurking round playgrounds, that kind of thing. That's why he claims to hate them - it's a cover story.
62

Niadh,

Edinburgh 25/05/2009 14:58:00
#34 Fresian
If you can get it down to Kelso for the Bike Festival I am sure it will be very useful for the camp fire sing along.

#46 Foo
I just want to be sure you are claiming a cop bike costs £200,000?
Where the hell did you get that figure?
The Honda Pan European or Yamaha FJR1300 that most police forces use comes in at about £25k including additional equipment.
If you are referring to the recent news that Northumbria Police are selling their fleet over health and safety fears (not getting enough time out on road to keep skill levels up. Should probably not be doing so much paper work) then you should do some checking and realize that they actually have a fleet of around 20 bikes.

 

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