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Clearing the way for tram line

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Published Date: 08 January 2008
WORK is set to get under way to allow city centre traffic to be diverted before the trams roadworks begin in earnest.
Barriers, signposts and traffic islands will be removed from a number of busy city centre streets from today ahead of a full traffic management programme starting next month.

Shops and businesses in the city centre have been sent letters telling t
hem "enabling" works will take place in St Andrew Square, Queensferry Street and Charlotte Square over the next four weeks.

It is thought this will allow tram firm TIE to divert some city centre traffic on to these routes when work to move utility pipes in the city centre gets underway next month.

Sources close to the project have already indicated that Princes Street will need to be temporarily closed to traffic during the utility diversion work.

Other busy streets on the Newhaven to airport route, such as Shandwick Place, could also be facing temporary closures under plans being considered by tram chiefs.

Some of the enabling work over the next few weeks will involve unpicking measures put in place during the city's botched £4.5 million traffic management reorganisation in 2005.

Motoring groups today called for TIE to pull out all the stops to ensure there was no repeat of this situation, and warned drivers to brace themselves for disruption.

Willie Gallagher, TIE's executive chairman, said: "These works will enable us to put in place the necessary temporary traffic management measures that will maintain traffic flows as we get on with the utility diversion work. They will remain in place as the tram infrastructure is laid in 2009."

A schedule of works obtained by the Evening News shows how areas currently restricted to traffic at North and South St Andrew Street will be adjusted.

Barriers and street furniture will be removed outside House of Fraser at the junction with Hope Street and Lothian Road.

Other preparatory work will also take place at the junction of Frederick Street and Princes Street, and the central reservation on Princes Street will be removed over the coming month.

The utility diversions work in the city centre is expected to last until August, though there is expected to be further disruption when contractors return later in the year to begin laying the tram tracks.

Neil Greig, head of policy in Scotland for the Institute of Advanced Motorists, said: "This will be the first in a long, long list of announcements that will involve disruption for drivers.

"What is crucial is that all of the alterations are properly communicated – particularly given the track record of Edinburgh council during the last big set of changes in the city centre."

The council's central Edinburgh traffic management scheme saw westbound traffic banned on Princes Street, and George Street cut in half by bollards in 2005.

Ten junctions were closed to all vehicles and many other roads gave access to buses and taxis only. The scheme proved unpopular and council chiefs agreed to reverse the worst of the measures after a campaign by the News.



The full article contains 514 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 January 2008 11:20 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh transport plans
 
1

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 12:28:22
So much disruption, so much money spent.

So few benefits....
2

CRAGman,

Capital city Edinburgh 08/01/2008 13:28:01
Maybe the Evening News should research reaction to the construction of Edinburgh's original tram lines. Is it only our generation that moans so much?
3

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 13:31:16
#3, there was a point to the tramlines when they were first laid.

This time round, however, they're a gigantic waste of money for the flimsiest PC reasons.
4

NorT,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 13:38:23
It is difficult enough to cross Princes Street without them removing anymore of the central islands.
5

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 15:47:56
Who wants these trams. Certainly not majority of Edinburgh residents from every poll Scotsman and Evening News has run, by a huge margin.

£100M been wasted in planning, SNP should stop it now per election pledge (no hiding behind other parties please)and save the next £400M of wasted money.

How many residents have studied the plans, the attachments to world heritage buildings to save money and the sell off of council assets to assist in funding any overspend.

Can't believe the apathy allowing this huge white elephant to trundle on.
6

Statsman,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 16:02:19
What a waste of money.
7

Hector Goodrich (Dr),

Gillin pronounced 'Gullane' 08/01/2008 16:15:12
#5 It is difficult enough to cross Princes Street

I have crossed Princes Street thousands of times in my 60+ years on this planet and have experienced no difficulty whatsoever as I use the light-controlled pedestrian crossings. For the fools who do not use the crossing points then I imagine it would be difficult. I also suspect that these fools will continue to compromise their personal safety whether or not a tram line is constructed.
8

Think Tank,

08/01/2008 18:00:58
#6 "Who wants these trams. Certainly not majority of Edinburgh residents from every poll Scotsman and Evening News has run, by a huge margin."

How can you lie out of your teeth with such ease? Have you actually researched any of these polls, or have you (in common with most of the anti-tram fold), simply stated YOUR opinion as that of the majority? The Royal We syndrome.

Of course there are people who are anti-tram. In my opinion they are misguided and display a complete lack of understanding of the scheme- most on here don't understand the route (e.g. "it's the no. 22 bus"- IT'S NOT) or the key locations it serves (e.g. on this site I've had to point out to one contributor that it DOES serve a Park and Ride site despite s/he being adamant that it doesn't!)

But as for opinion polls- all have shown support for the tram. Even the "click a button" polls on this site (entirely skewed) show at worst a 50:50 split, which as anyone involved in major event/project planning would tell you, is amazing at this stage of the scheme.

The natural history for such a project is an initial dip in support whilst construction takes hold, followed by increasing support as the service comes on line. Dublin's tram line now enjoys well over 80% public support, and yes there were many people unhappy with it during the planning stages!
9

Anny,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 18:48:45
That's odd - I thought the central reservation on Princes Street had already been removed, and replaced by a barrier.
10

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 21:22:08
#9 Straw poll of my office and friends finds that out of c.30 people 1 (one) supports the tram line, and she lives in Leith and thinks it will help her house price.

The people who are misguided are the ones who think that spending £600m+ of public money on this single line makes sense at a time when much of the rest of Scotland's infrastructue is crying out for investment. Have you even read the joke that they call a "business plan"?

Oh, and a straw poll of my colleagues who work in Dublin (8 people) finds that all of them are against the Dublin tram line as a waste of money that takes up road space and causes jams. And at least the Irish did not have to pay for it themselves.
11

calum,

08/01/2008 22:01:43
#9 You are such an enthusiast about the tramLINE, perhaps you can answer a genuine question which both the Council and its company TIE refuse to answer. What happens to the line when it is severed by Princes Street being closed for Hogmanay for 2 days, for Festival Fireworks, for parades, demonstrations, Festival Cavalcade etc. etc.. At the very time that a mass transpotation line to the heart of Edinburgh is needed, it seems it will not be there. Can you answer that?
12

calum,

08/01/2008 22:11:47
PS - It has to be more than coincidence that some of the leading lights in TIE are the same people who, when they were with City Development, foisted the disastrous CETM fiasco and the hopeless guided busway on Edinburgh, much of which had to be reversed or repaired at a cost of millions and now, according to the above, much of which will be ripped up.
A wee investigation by a newspaper with a nose for an investigative story to look at the various directors, backgrounds and connections (shares, firms etc. ) would seem to be in order. Anyone know of one?
13

Think Tank,

08/01/2008 22:14:00
Pretty simple for simple "severing" as you put it...you run trams from each end on the night of the celebrations (e.g. Hogmanay) in the same way you run buses on Hogmanay night. It makes no real difference to the tramline itself, but as always a tram does provide the opportunity for moving massive amounts of people away from a congregation site QUICKLY. This is why having the tram serve Murrayfield and near to Easter Road Stadium is also so important.

Also if you'd ever actually researched the Hogmanay effort, you'd realise that Princes' St reopens on January 1st morning....yep that's for buses too (!) and the clearup is finished by afternoon. Hogmanay is indeed the biggest disruption to Princes' st all year and it's shut for about 12 hours in total. The Cavalcade mainly focuses on George St where it can stay. Parades and demonstrations have to be agreed with the police to be legal- there is nothing set in stone that these have to be on Princes' st. Arguably, George St is more suitable anyway.

14

Julian,

EDINBURGH 08/01/2008 22:24:08
GrahameH,

That's one of the most pathetic pieces of misdirection to prove your point I've ever seen.

You were challenged over your claims about EEN polls on the tram line and your response is that most of a handful of people in your office are anti-tram.

Please can you answer the original point. Where are all these anti-tram polls that have been conducted by the EEN and The Scotsman?
15

Julian,

EDINBURGH 08/01/2008 22:28:16
Urban Guerrila,

Just interested but why was there more of a point to the original trams being built as opposed to just having more buses?
16

Leila,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 22:48:12
#9: can you please produce the figures from EN online polls on trams? And can you prove that they were an accurate and meaningful representation of public opinion? If not, why bother mentioning EN polls at all as evidence of support for the tram scheme?

I too don't know anyone who think this tram scheme will benefit the city - and I know a lot of people who get very upset indeed about the undemocratic way it has been foisted on Edinburgh.
17

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 08/01/2008 23:06:12
IAM.NOT.COMING.HOME.UNTIL.THIS.NIGHTMARE.IS.OVER
18

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 08/01/2008 23:10:55
IT.IS.THE.HEIGHT.OFF.SHEAR.STUPIDTY.STUPID.STUPID
19

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 23:21:38
#15 Julian - Not only can you not spell my name but you link me to a completely different post!

I did not comment at all on the EN / Scotsman polls as they are too open to manipulation (what's to say TIE do not get their 100's of staff to vote). I simply commented on my own personal experience which is that there is no widespread support for the tram line. That also appears to be the experience of a majority of other posters.

Nor from my experience is there broad support in Dublin for its tram lines.


20

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 08/01/2008 23:52:14
I agree that the EEN online polls are too open to manipulation. I remember watching two "tram polls" which, for a considerable period, fluctuated around the 70% against mark but, quite suddenly, the number of votes shot up and the result ended in favour.

Perhaps that was a proper outcome but, when discussing the project with friends/colleagues, the number who are unconvinced about the scheme is far greater than those in favour and some people are very concerned about the impact on the bus service (including those from coming from outside the city) and why a tramline is receiving such priority when so many other problems need to be addressed.

In the continued absence of a traffic management scheme post-tram operation or evidence in relation to the impact trams will have on the city centre businesses, and the recent statement by Lothian Buses printed in this paper that they would have been confident of achieving a similar reduction in congestion, given increased investment, I am, too, remain unconvinced that the trams will be an effective solution.
21

Julian,

EDINBURGH 09/01/2008 01:54:58
GraemeH # 20

Sorry, but that's a bit confusing. Got you mixed up with GrahamH.

Still, I do think your straw poll doesn't really prove much. Most of the people I have spoken to think the trams are a good idea.

Until someone can show us a properly sampled poll, all this constant talk about the trams being unpopular is just pie in the sky. I asked the EEN to carry out a survey last year but got no response.

One thing that is for sure; a susbstantial majority of councillors and MSP's who we just voted for in May are in favour.
22

Navvy,

09/01/2008 07:20:28
Expect chaos and last minute changes and rising costs all to be tholed by the long suffering citizens of Edinburgh who have voted unwisely over the years for a series of incompetent councils
23

PeeBee,

09/01/2008 12:55:46
Here is some footage of the excellent new tram system in Marseilles which opened in June last year and is the first of three lines. 24 French towns/cities have built new tram lines since 1985. At opening each consisted of only 1 or 2 lines, and many have added additional lines over time. Watch the viseo and see a state of the art modern tramway system in operation. Any city that calls itself civilised should have such systems.
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=Marseilles+trams&hl=en-GB
24

PeeBee,

09/01/2008 12:56:56
Here is some footage of the excellent new tram system in Marseilles which opened in June last year and is the first of three lines. 24 French towns/cities have built new tram lines since 1985. At opening each consisted of only 1 or 2 lines, and many have added additional lines over time. Watch the video and see a state of the art modern tramway system in operation. Any city that calls itself civilised should have such systems.
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=Marseilles+trams&hl=en-GB
25

PeeBee,

09/01/2008 12:56:59
Here is some footage of the excellent new tram system in Marseilles which opened in June last year and is the first of three lines. 24 French towns/cities have built new tram lines since 1985. At opening each consisted of only 1 or 2 lines, and many have added additional lines over time. Watch the video and see a state of the art modern tramway system in operation. Any city that calls itself civilised should have such systems.
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?q=Marseilles+trams&hl=en-GB
26

Tr1xx,

Edinburgh 09/01/2008 14:11:49
In my capacity as an Edinburgh resident, cyclist, driver, pedestrian and bus user I am not looking forward to these changes in the slightest, (both short and long term).

The nearest tram stop will be 15 minutes walk from my house, and I expect the current excellent bus service (12, 26, 31) will be severely curtailed. What's the point of the trams otherwise?

Waste of money
27

Julian,

EDINBURGH 09/01/2008 16:52:35
#27 tr1xx,

"what's the point of the trams otherwise?"

1. Trams have been proven to encourage people out their cars, not just diverting people off buses.
2. Trams put out no pollutants on our streets.
3. Trams are faster and more comfortable than buses.
4. Trams are more efficient, needing only 1 driver for 250 passengers and putting down and picking up people in half the time the equivalent 3 buses back to back would take to do it.

Is that enough points for you?
28

Tr1xx,

Edinburgh 09/01/2008 19:05:26
#28 Julian,

Don't want to get into an argument, but . . .

1. There won't be much space left on the roads for cars by the time the city planners have their way.
2. OK, Fair point re pollution. What about visual pollution though? Tram lines, overhead power cables and all the associated clutter won't do much for the environment.
3. Trams faster? Why? Because there's fewer stops? Probably fewer buses to get in their way, (I haven't read detailed proposals for changes to existing bus services, but I'm a tad pessimistic). More comfortable? Most people will be standing. What about the additional walk to the tram stops too?
4. Depends upon relative bus & tram frequency, but buses are much more flexible

Everybody will inevitably look at the tram service from a personal point of view. Sorry but I remain to be convinced. Ask me again in a couple of years though. In the meantime, yeugh, what a mess.
29

off-comed-un,

Edinburgh 10/01/2008 13:08:11
Hate to harp on about things, but points (1) and (2) apply equally to trolleybuses. Re (3), trolleybuses have at least as good acceleration and hill-climbing ability as trams (and better deceleration). Point (4) needs to be considered in the context of the whole transport system. Trams can carry larger flows of people along a transport corridor than buses or trolleybuses. However, it may be possible to distribute the flows throughout the road network, thereby removing the need to carry very large flows along one particular corridor. Given that you get a lot more trolleybus network for your money than tram network, I feel it's a shame that they were not given due consideration in the tram design process.

Still, it's not too late to try raising the profile of trolleybuses in other Scottish cities.
30

SPG,

edinburgh 04/03/2008 17:28:05
Julian: Trams are calculated to be of use to only 8% of EH inmates. What a criminal waste of money.

 

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