Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


Boost to tram cashback 'not good enough' say businesses

Premium Article !

Your account has been frozen. For your available options click the below button.

Options

Premium Article !

To read this article in full you must have registered and have a Premium Content Subscription with the Edinburgh Evening News site.

Subscribe

Registered Article !

To read this article in full you must be registered with the site.

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 10 April 2008
BUSINESS leaders today hit out at an extension to the tram compensation scheme, claiming it does not go far enough.
Tram firm TIE announced changes to its business support initiative, which will see an extra 200 businesses become eligible for compensation payments of up to £4000. The move means traders on side streets along the Newhaven to airport route will be e
ntitled to cash for the first time.

However, TIE has not increased the £2 million pot from which payments will be paid.

The changes come as businesses across the tram route are reporting increasing difficulties as a result of the roadworks.

This includes the Suruchi Too restaurant in Leith, which today reported an 80 per cent drop in turnover since the partial closure of Constitution Street last week.

But TIE today insisted that Edinburgh traders were getting unprecedented levels of support when compared with other tram projects. However, Graham Russell, chairman of the Federation of Small Businesses Edinburgh branch, said it did not go far enough. He said: "The changes are nothing more than a gesture.

"There is clear evidence that businesses along the route are suffering extreme hardship and we need more money to address this. Yes extend the scheme, as we have been saying all along, but you need to match that with more money to make a real difference to the shops that are suffering right now."

In January, tram chiefs agreed to move the cut-off date for compensation and so far

more than £515,000 of small business support payments have been made to 143 traders, mainly in Leith Walk.

But Lothians MSP Shirley-Anne Somerville said construction work on the tram scheme was causing havoc for businesses. She said: , with a distinct lack of "Open for Business" signs in Leith.

She said: "Work has just begun on a new phase of construction on Constitution Street and already businesses have reported a drop in turnover of up to 80 per cent.

"These businesses cannot survive without compensation.

"TIE have got to stop passing the buck. They have a contingency fund and they must use it to help local businesses or there will be nothing left by the time the trams are up and running."

Last month business leaders were united in their condemnation of the rates assessor, the Lothian Valuation Joint Board, for pegging rates discounts for trams disruption at 20 per cent.

The move saw the assessor being accused of not sticking to the spirit of a variable rates discount deal struck in 2006.

Willie Gallagher, TIE's executive chairman, said: "It was always the intention to review this scheme with our partners. Following the successful distribution of over £500,000 on Leith Walk, I believe these changes will improve the already successful small business scheme.

"The objectives of TIE and its partners have been clear from the outset – to assist as many businesses as possible."

Spice has gone out of our trade
AS soon as the JCBs and men in hard hats moved in, the lunchtime trade simply disappeared from the Suruchi Too restaurant on Constitution Street.

In the first week of tram works, not a soul walked in for a lunchtime meal at the popular Indian restaurant.

Landlord Herman Rodrigues today claimed his turnover was down 80 per cent in the first week alone, and he has already had to lay off seven staff. He added: "To serve not a single customer at lunchtime is crazy.

"The lack of parking is really affecting our takeaway trade, as well as our regular bookings. We are not ones for giving up without a fight, but it is hard to see how we can sustain such losses.

"I've been disappointed with the communication from TIE. There has been no working during the weekend so why not re-introduce parking for these few days and allow me to try to recover some trade?"

Mike Connelly, TIE's stakeholder manager, said the workers were today putting signs at either end of Constitution Street to try to help business on the street.

He added: "We will remain in close dialogue with Mr Rodrigues and others."

www.tramsforedinburgh.com





The full article contains 699 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

paulr,

edinburgh 10/04/2008 11:56:19
Why should businesses get rates rebates for tram works?
Edinburgh residents do not get council tax rebates for it and we are inconvenienced just as much as shops and offices.
Of course we do not get a choice in the matter the trams are being foisted on us regardless
2

Dragonlord,

10/04/2008 12:11:27
Where in the budget did TIE get this cash? They are trying to claim it will come in on budget, but there is no way it will.Extra cash for this, and a footfall survey? That is just the tip of the iceberg, many more costs not announced and the sat TIE does not LIE?
3

PaulB,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 12:13:30
Here we go again - moan moan moan! The trams are coming. They will benefit the city in the long term - let's get on with it and stop complaining every flipping day! It really does get boring.
4

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 12:23:46
Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce was one of the most enthusiastic voices of approval for the trams, let business in Edinburgh unite and pool a small subsidy from every business which can be paid out to those who can prove that they have suffered during the construction phase.
If their enthusiasm for the tram network is not misplaced they will be rewarded many times over once it is up and running.
5

Niadh,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 12:35:43
#1 Paulr.

Businesses pay business rates not accomodation rates.
If the business goes bust the city gets no cash in the long run.
If these businesses were simply to close up no one else would be willing to take on the property hence the city loses out now and has no certainty of the shops being reopened in the long run.


#3 PaulB.

There is no concrete evidence that this will benefit the city in the long run. TIE looked at other cities with Trams and reckoned that we could emulate them.
A number of crucial factors was missed in this review including city size, layout, accessibility, scale of the tram system.
Personally I would be very surprised if the tram system managed to break even.

6

Sarcasm,

10/04/2008 12:42:56
"AS soon as the JCBs and men in hard hats moved in, the lunchtime trade simply disappeared from the Suruchi Too restaurant on Constitution Street"

I'm not surprised, bet there was hardly a table to be had.
7

JT,

10/04/2008 12:51:23
Wheres my compensation for having to live in a city that resembles a building site without a hard hat or safety boots. We as residents should be getting something back now rather that having to wait for a tram system that is limited in where it goes and noone really wants.
8

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 12:55:43
For heaven's sake, the businesses knew the tram works were coming - why on earth did they not plan ahead? Businesses have to learn to take risks, and cope with outside factors outwith their control. Road works happen - get used to it! Constitution Street is only closed in this phase for 9 weeks. If Suruchi Too weren't able to plan for this in advance then they simply do not deserve to be in business and they certainly DO NOT DESERVE TAXPAYERS MONEY!

As for losing trade because of parking spaces?! There is rarely ever a space available on Constitution Street, and I find it hard to believe that every single car is parked there so that their owners can get their lunch at Suruchi Too! Absolute load of whingeing nonsense.

As for No6, there is plenty of evidence. Try the fact that the current east-west transportation route is at capacity. It cannot take any more 22s being thrown at it - it needs some form of transport with greater capacity. As for 'city size, layout, accessibility' - what do you think Edinburgh is? Some village high up in the Pyrenees? Edinburgh is big enough for trams, layout is not a problem, and trams will be even more accessible. Stop spouting nonsense.

I bet all the whingers and moaners out there that as soon as the tram line is finished, people will be demanding more! STOP BEING SO NEGATIVE!
9

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 13:00:12
JT: Everyone I know who currently uses public transport is crying out for trams. Only selfish car drivers, or those with an axe to grind about anything vaguely 21st-Century happening in Edinburgh, seem to be against it.

Car drivers have had decades of record expenditure on them, with motorway extensions, bypasses etc etc. Have a look at how much the M74 extension is costing - roughly the same as Edinburgh's tramline. Public transport infrastructure costs money. Get used to it.
10

Dragonlord,

10/04/2008 13:02:52
9# We are not anti edinburgh whingers, We are the sensible ones that can see this white elephant for what it is. A cash cow for the developers and an easy buck for those employed by TIE. These people will be the only winners.This tram LINE will bomb, and it's us that will have to pay in the long run.
11

Dragonlord,

10/04/2008 13:06:42
Car drivers have had decades of record expenditure on them, with motorway extensions, bypasses etc etc. Have a look at how much the M74 extension is costing - roughly the same as Edinburgh's tramline.

Can't beleive you wrote this. All of these help move people ALL OVER Scotland. Not just those that live in a high cost development on the water front.You can't honestly beleive the numbers quoted by TIE. Even during the rush hour there isn't 300 people traveling at one time from Leith to the west end.
12

Applecrumble,

Balerno 10/04/2008 13:22:02
For people like me who don't drive such transport systems are great but not when it comes to those of us who live way off the tram route. I'd have to take a 44 to outside town, get a tram and take another bus to get to my destination. That's three times the amount of money I would have initially spent. Also, if there is an accident trams cannot be redirected whereas buses and other vehicles can.
So maybe if I move to somewhere like Leith I'll have less to grumble about.
Let's face it, there's always at least two sides to an argument otherwise it isn't an argument and right now we all support one side, me being negative about the whole thing as I'm certainly no fan of the whole thing, but maybe when we're all used to the system we'll take a different view, those grumblers like me might like it and those pro-trams might hate it. We'll see.
13

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 13:43:40
Dragonlord - I wish I could share your indignant determination that you know exactly how things will pan out in three years time when trams are up and running... Shall we get back to you on that 'white elephant' statement (that was similarly applied to tram systems the world over that have subsequently proven to be a huge success...)?

The M74 extension does not help people move 'ALL OVER' Scotland. It's going to help car drivers save ten minutes on their journey five miles across Glasgow! The trams in Edinburgh will be available for all in Edinburgh, including the 50% households who do not have access to a car (like me), many of whom live (like me) in North Edinburgh which the trams will serve. And you know what? If it persuades some of the yuppies in the waterfront apartments (unlike me) to take public transport instead of their car, then that is of benefit to everyone. Try getting the likes of them on a bus!

As for the numbers of people currently moving East-West, have you ever been on a 22 at rush hour?!

To Scallywag! Thank you for your comment! I know, I know, I shouldn't get sucked in, but I just get so annoyed that the moaners and whingers seem to get all the airspace... I promise not to get sucked in! It's only cos I'm at home waiting for a delivery (and no, Dragonlord, it's not because the tram works have caused the world to end, sucking the delivery driver into a black hole of tram-related disaster)... As for your suggestion for Suruchi Too - brilliant! Perhaps if you ran the restaurant you wouldn't need a bail-out from the taxpayer.

You're completely right - if it wasn't trams, it would be something else. I guess I should just ignore them.
14

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 13:45:38
Scallywag: "Why should a tram system for our capital city be seen as anything different? It is transport infrastructure that can be used by many people but may not be used by everyone."

Spot on!
15

Dragonlord,

10/04/2008 14:18:38
12#You people must live on cloud cookoo land. The M74 was only one of the car related schemes you quoted. TIE's own report states that the trams will reduce congestion by ONE per cent. ONE vehicle in every hundered. This will be acheived by the removal of the 22 bus!! Put you money where your mouth is and invest in the trams, or even commit to pay high ticket costs, as I do not want to subsidise the trams. The benefits do not justify the vast costs involed. The trolley bus was put forward as a better option. They do not need rails,they could be fitted with small engines to bypass obstructions/be used outwith the line system. But what do they go for? Lothian buses recently bought 38 new buses, but did they think of other propultion systems? NO. The Simpson type salesman comes along with a "MONO RAIL" and everyone thinks it's great. Wait till it goes wrong and I will be back here looking for you trying to justify the cost. Yes I will be here if it works but the chances of that are very small.
16

Statsman,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 14:20:32
This was all predicted and is happening. TIE pretended it wouldn't happen.
17

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 14:32:46
Dragonlord:

Reducing congestion by 1% does not mean 1 vehicle in every hundred... The statistics are actually a little more complicated than that, and the units of 'congestion' is not 'number of cars'. In any case, a slight reduction in congestion is actually a vast improvement in contrast to an increase in congestion, which is what was predicted without trams. Therefore a reduction instead of an increase is actually a good result. The tram line is also not just a solution to our present situation - it is a long-term investment. If future growth is to be accommodated, we can't simply put more and more vehicles onto the road. We do not have the space.

As for trolley-buses, they were dismissed because they were not a better option. They would have been a half-hearted compromise. They offer no practical benefits, nor are more appealing, than ordinary buses, yet cost far more. What obstructions to the trams are you talking about? The utilities are realistically the only thing that cause obstructions, and they are being moved out of the way of the trams, hence the current works.

I do not want to subsidise the M74, the Forth Bridge, the Iraq War, Trident etc etc, but accept that as a taxpayer, sometimes things are done that I'm not happy with. Please accept that just because you don't like something happening, does not mean you get to claim a tax rebate, or stop everyone else from benefiting from public transport improvements. That's not how society works.
18

scotsol,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 15:39:31
I've just had a very nice lunch at a restaurant on Shandwick Place, and there were more or less exactly the same number of people there as last year this time, ie, pretty busy. Clearly, good restaurants are unaffected. And exactly how many is "80%"?
19

Dragonlord,

10/04/2008 15:59:57
23# When I went to school 1% was one in a hundered. Still that was some time ago, and statistics can mean anything you like nowadays.Trolley buses don't look nice. what a shame!!The tram line is simply a means to an end. To get developers interested ( and no doubt get the brown enovelopes ) someone had to come up with a sweetner. The tram LINE won't get used by the very people it was supposed to. No-one way out there on the waterfront will want to stand in all weathers, to get a tram/bus /taxi. They will use a car. They first proposed that trams would be three carrages long ,now they are to be five. How can this TRAIN wynd it's way through Edinburgh without causing mayhem? Where are all the passengers coming from to make the line vialble? TIE claim the tram will carry 300 people at a time, but outwith rush hour they will be near empty. That is where their figures fall down and it will cost every coucli tax payer in Edinburgh an arm and a leg. Look beyond the hype and see the truth in what I am saying.
20

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 16:27:18
#3, > The trams are coming. They will benefit the city in the long term <

No, they won't. The trams are Edinburgh's suicide note.
21

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 16:36:10
Dragonlord:

1% is one in a hundred. What I was disputing was the fact that it is not measured in vehicles, but minutes-lost or extra-minutes in journey times. The difference between the units of measurement is quite important. For example, 1 elephant is not the same as 1 litre of Orange Juice, yet percentages can apply to both.

The tram line is a means to an end. Well done! We can at least agree on that!

Admittedly some on the waterfront will use a car sometimes, but all the evidence in the world states that trams are an attractive alternative. You cannot dispute this. What evidence do you have that proves otherwise? NONE!

Trams can easily get round corners. I wouldn't worry about the trams being five carriages long. I think you'll find that whether a tram is 3 or 300 carriages long makes no difference to its cornering ability (it has this clever bending ability in between carriages). It is the length of these carriages, and their wheel bogies that affect cornering. Are you arguing that no other city in the world that has trams also has street corners?! Cities have corners, cities have trams, and cities have trams that go round corners. It's not rocket science.

The passengers are all those thousands upon thousands that travel on the route today, and will travel on the route in the future.

I look beyond the hype in the EEN, it is you that falls for it. Conspiracy theories are just that - theories. No basis in fact whatsoever, no matter how vehemently and negatively you see the world. I have seen and used trams in many cities and firmly believe that they will work in Edinburgh. Stop sounding like some evangelical nut-case!
22

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 16:39:56
Urban Guerrilla:

Fascinating comment. Not a hint of hyperbole at all. Care to expand, with evidence?
23

Euan,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 17:11:08
Well, well, well, what a surprise.

The owners of the affected businesses are saying they are not getting enough compensation - DAMN RIGHT THEY'RE NOT.

The PITTANCE on offer from TIE is like slapping each proprietor in the face with a wet kipper - a total insult.

TIE like nothing more than trying to cover their tracks with well-placed smokescreens.

Well is doesn't wash with me and it clearly does not wash with the people whose livelihoods are being placed in jeopardy by this insane tram project.

We are witnessing money being wasted on a grand scale with the construction of this unneeded and unwanted tram LINE.

The whole thing should be scrapped with immediate effect.

'AntiEdinburghWhingers' - You're full of it, not heard such a complete load of garbage from a poster on these forums in a long time.





24

calum,

10/04/2008 17:15:13
AntiEdinburghWhingers - You still haven't answered the quewstion about what happens in the event of a crash involving a tram. The LINE would be stopped, therefore all following LINE traffic would be stopped rendering travel in that direction impossible and then, it would depend on the length of time the authorities take to deal with the crash because the legislation for trams is totally different to buses and other wheeled transport. If that crash involves a fatality or one that may become a fatality, that length of investigation time will be many hours.
What happens when Princes Street is u/s for a parade, demo or Festival? The LINE will be severed for the duration meaning no travel east of the West End or west of the East End, rendering the LINE usless. At least other cities have not used up their entire main street with a LINE. O'Connell Street in Dublin, for example is crossed by their LINE at one point not its entire length meaning they can close it off and not affect operations. Edinburgh? Oh, we didn't think of that.
TIE's own figures suggest the LINE will carry 4000 passengers per hour peak. That is all. So much for mass transport options. And other commentators are right about off peak.
25

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 17:37:46
Euan:

Full of what? The only person spouting nonsense is you. Why exactly should the taxpayer subsidise incompetent businesses? The business community are exactly some of the ones that will benefit most from the trams when they open - most businesses plan for the long term and appreciate this. If a few moaners rely on tax incentives to get them through a few weeks of roadworks, what hope do they have?

Calum:

I do most forcefully apologise for not answering each and every single question to your satisfaction! I am not a tram representative. All I can say is look at other trams round the world - they very, very, very rarely have any tragic accidents of any sort. All that will happen in such rare occurences is that the tram will stop and go back at a certain point. Connecting buses will take people further - it's simple. The other fact is that trams aren't taking up the entire width of Princes Street. Princes Street is wide-enough to take trams and people, and trams and people actually mix very well - everyone knows where the tram is going, as they are fixed to a predictable route. Sure, they might slow down a bit, but it really isn't that much of a problem, and has already been thought of and planned for. There have been numerous occasions where lines of barricades have been set up along streets to keep special events separate from ordinary traffic.

The straight-forward fact is that trams are not replacing buses, they are complimentary to it, and in all likelihood, they will operate as intended 99.999999% of the time, like they do in every other city that has them.

I promise you - human beings are quite intelligent, and us Edinburgh citizens will be able to cope... If you can't then I'm sure there will be a little cave for you and your fellow whingers to go and sit in whilst the rest of us get on with it!
26

calum,

10/04/2008 17:52:11
#32 That's right, when someone tries to have a discussion and has points with which you don't agree, you resort to insults. Not worth bothering about.

However, to the rest, I do hope that the Scottish Government can rest easy in the knowledge that £1/2 billion (which will rise) will be spent on a single LINE in Edinburgh whilst the lack of monies to develop A1, A9, electrification of the rail network north of Edinburgh etc. etc. will continue to stifle industrial and agricultural development and investment along their length and beyond. Not so much a Scottish Government as an Edinburgh one.
27

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 18:09:41
Calum, I had a perfectly sound discussion with you, but did feel the need to respond to your outright pessimism. I made no insults. Please don't be petulant and go off in a huff! Go on, accept a little light-hearted rivalry!

OK, the A1, A9, electrification etc are all important too, but so is public transport in our capital city. It's not a one or the other situation. The transportation budget of the Scottish Parliament is more than £500m over three years!!! Are you saying that the government should spend nothing whatsoever in Edinburgh? Yes it is a single line, but it's a very long one, and I'm sure will grow in the future once its worth is proven, and other transport projects will likewise get the go ahead. Remember, a vibrant capital city is also vital to the economic well-being of the rest of the country. For a vibrant capital city you need top-quality public transport to keep people moving.
28

,

10/04/2008 18:11:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
29

Euan,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 18:33:02
#32

I'm so very sorry for not making myself clear earlier.

To quote a line from 'The Man with the Golden Gun', Roger Moore says to Francisco Scaramanga: "there is a useful four-letter word, and you're full of it"

If you use your imagination, I'm sure you can work out what the word is.

Your comments and support of this tram line make you just as bad as the ignoramuses at TIE.

You don't give a damn what is happening to this City, or to the people who are having their very livelihoods threatened so certain council members and people like Willie Gallagher can have a lovely, tourist attraction toy tram to boast about.

Shame on you.

30

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 10/04/2008 18:51:56
Here we go again. Whatever the compensation offered it will never be enough for some!

Part of business having to ride good and bad times. Good customers will still support them but it down to the proprietors to put out the welcome hand and not just expect customers to come through the door.

The trams should not, as has been said, be going ahead as we don't need them. We have a shell of a suburbun railway that could be developed.

No doubt like many of the businesses whatever you say will fall on deaf ears
31

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 19:31:10
Euan:

The shame is on you for writing such an offensive post, which was thankfully pulled. Calum, if you wanted an example of a real insult, Euan's post was perfect.

Clearly Euan you are upset. I can only assume you are one such business owner who is desperate for some attention.

I do give a damn about this city. I care deeply about what is happening to us, and as part of that, I feel a modern transport system is vital to the wellbeing of us all.

I do not give a damn about subsidy-junkie business owners who fail to plan in advance and cannot cope with a few weeks of roadworks.

If a few badly run business go to the wall, I'm sorry, but perhaps it would have happened anyway. The well-run businesses who plan in advance, look after their customers, and just get on with it will be fine.
32

AntiEdinburghWhingers,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 19:40:32
Jingsitsme:

I completely agree that the south-suburban loop should be re-opened, but I'm afraid there isn't a disused railway line that follows the line of the tram route under construction, which is where the trams are needed most. The possible North Edinburgh circle will incorporate part of the former Caledonian Railway to Granton, but that's the only effective part of the disused lines in the north part of the city.

I'd love to see the south-suburban circle incorporated in to the tram system in some way, as this could potentially avoid the bottleneck at Waverley... But that is something for the future, and should not be at the expense of the main 'spine' route from east to west.
33

Euan,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 19:54:33
#38

No, I'm not, as you put it, a 'business owner who is desperate for some attention'.

I'm someone who, unlike yourself, feels for the businesses that are being put under enormous financial pressure as a result of an unneeded, hair-brained and ill-thought project that is feeding on hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers money.

The disrespect you are showing the owners of the affected businesses beggars belief.

I tell you what, why don't you go into a few of them and say, as you put it in your post, that they are 'badly run' and no-one cares if they 'go to the wall'? - you'd get your head knocked off - and you know it. Then again, you wouldn't have the balls to do it would you?

You're not 'sorry' at all, all you care about is getting the tram LINE in place, whatever the cost may be.

Shame on you.







34

Axl,

10/04/2008 20:03:08
#38

How exactly does a business 'plan in advance', as you put it, for an 80% drop in trade?

No business, well-run or not, can prepare for such a massive drop in takings.

Clearly you don't own a business on the tram route..
35

calum,

10/04/2008 20:03:09
By TIE's own figures, the tramLINE will be accessible (and make a tangible difference)to 6% of Edinburgh's population .....about 54000?. The A1, A9, electrification of the rail network etc. etc. would be accessible (and make a tangible difference) to how much of Scotland's population ........ at least 40% or 2m, I would estimate.
Still, no point in trying to devalue the 2nd greatest potential monument to political self-aggrandisement that modern Scotland has seen. Second only, to the carbuncle of a building to house the LINE's supporters and thier egos at the foot of Holyrood Road.
36

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 22:25:47
I don't think it is unreasonable for businesses to expect to be able to carry on trading without the Council causing them severe downturn in trade over a prolonged period.

That was clearly recognised by the Council and TIE when they gave a commitment to compensate such businesses for loss of trade during the construction period. The problem seems to be that the businesses did not realise that such compensation would be so paltry. Traders should not have been so gullible and TIE/CEC should not have been so misleading.

37

in-the-know,

10/04/2008 22:33:44
Is this the same Herman who was to ill to fly back from India to face another string of charges for once again flouting food hygiene laws a couple of months ago? Hope the courts are quick to grab him now he is back in Edinburgh. But I'm sure thats how the article read and that the EN printed an apology to Herman as he no longer has any connections with the restaurants under the name of Suruchi.mmmmmmmmmmm I smell a scam or is it just mice, cockroaches and filth?
http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Restaurant-boss-too-sick-for.3700874.jp
38

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 22:43:35
(9) Anti-Edinburgh - you argue that the current east-west transportation route is at capacity as justification for trams and that it cannot cope with more buses.

However, Lothian Buses have stated that it could have coped with the growing population by reworking the bus provision and the introduction of a new traffic management system but, unfortunately, they were never asked. This seems strange, given that the government is under an obligation to examine the most cost-effective solution.

You also state (at 32) that the trams in Edinburgh are not replacing buses, but are complimentary to them. You may be interested to know that a study carried out by Faber Maunsell/Semaly into why UK tram systems have failed to deliver the same level of benefits as French systems concluded that one of the main differences was that, in France, trams do directly replace buses, with stops at the same spacing as the previous bus stops. I am not saying that this is what should happen here, but merely point it out as it seems to be a potential pitfall of the Edinburgh scheme.





39

NorT,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 22:59:10
Some enterprising should make up stickers reading "NOT" and put them on the signs saying Edinburghis open for business. You could also make ones saying "NO" and put them on the TRams for edinburgh signs at all the roadworks. If sticky labels are used then this is not vanadalism.
40

Andrew,

10/04/2008 23:09:03
There are plenty of "SUBWAYS" and "METROS" doing great business here, there and everywhere so I think I'll branch out into business and open a few "TRAMLINES"!!
41

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 10/04/2008 23:23:08
#3. Go to the other cities where trams do work and see why Edinburgh will not. The infrastrcuture. road widths, city layouts are all different. This system wiull creatre congestion and herald road charging.

Anyone that believes putting a tram in the middle of the road, meaning buses, taxis and cars share 1 lane will not create congestion and grind Edinburgh to halt is gullible.

Edinburgh residents made voice heard against road charging, this tram system will mean it is a neccesity.
42

Julian,

EDINBURGH 11/04/2008 03:32:04
GrahamH,

That's anti-tram piece of misinfromation number 126 which comes up in this forum on a regular basis. Do you really think all other vehicles are going to share the one lane? Think again. For most of it's route, other vehicles will be able to go onto the tram lines or, the trams won't even be on the roads?

43

Julian,

EDINBURGH 11/04/2008 03:33:59
Euan,

Couple of questions, one of which I think I've asked before:-

Does TIE ever do anything which is not totally unreasonable and incompetent?

and,

Have you met anyone yet who is in favour of the trams?

Please think carefully about your credibility before you answer no to both questions;0)
44

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 11/04/2008 07:59:02
#50 - "Does TIE ever do anything which is not totally unreasonable and incompetent?"

NO

"Have you met anyone yet who is in favour of the trams?"

YES - One person. Only one single, solitary person.

I would encourage all you tramfans to READ the business plan, which shows incremental revenue (pre-costs) of only £4m pa from this line. Most of the revenue is simply switched from buses with no net gain.So in pure revenue terms the trams will generate 0.6% of their capital costs pa. Are you honestly telling us that this is the best use of public money, that there are no other projects where the money could be spent for a better return?

 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Today's Vote

Should TIE be spending time Twittering and using social networking sites?
Yes, many people communicate this way now
No, it’s just another form of spin
No, it should focus on getting the work done on time

Featured Advertising



Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.