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It's decision time on soCo vision for Old Town site



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Published Date: 23 September 2008
NEARLY six years after a major fire ripped through the heart of the Old Town, plans for the future of the derelict Cowgate site have been submitted to the city council.
A 200-bedroom hotel, a festival venue and glass walkways all feature in the £40 million scheme, which will create a link between South Bridge and the Cowgate.

Developer Whiteburn Projects today also announced a deal with Hoxton Urban Lodge to run the "funky budget boutique" hotel – the first foray outside London for the firm led by Pret a Manger co-founder Sinclair Beecham.

As expected, there are no plans for any housing, but the scheme – dubbed SoCo – also includes a shop, a main restaurant and bar, a cafe, a business centre, a new home for the former La Belle Angele nightclub, an extension to the Chambers Street jazz cellar, and two new pends and courtyards. Around 200 jobs would be created on the site, plus another 100 during the construction.

Councillors will shortly be asked to vote on the plans, and work could start as soon as next year – with the project finished two years later.

City architect Allan Murray, who designed the scheme, said he wanted to produce a "contemporary interpretation" of existing buildings.

"SoCo will be a collection of buildings in sympathy with the contrasting urban grains of Chambers Street, South Bridge and the Cowgate, complemented by a network of closes and vennels," he said.

"A series of courts, terraces and entrance spaces at different levels, with different uses will bring vibrancy to the area."

London's Hoxton Urban Lodge opened in September 2006 and is designed to be both "up-market" and "low cost".

John Shepherd, chief executive of Whiteburn, said: "We had a great response from a number of leading hotel operators, however, the Hoxton philosophy epitomised our own approach to the site.

"With its funky budget boutique approach, this hotel hit the ground running when it opened in Shoreditch, one of London's hippest districts, last year – and I am certain Hoxton will absolutely hit the mark on South Bridge too. It will become the destination for people to stay, work and relax, within a vastly improved environment – providing jobs and kick-starting the regeneration of the whole South Bridge/Cowgate area – a very positive event in these uncertain times."

He added: "Whiteburn Projects has also worked hard to meet the City of Edinburgh Council's planning brief for this site, at the same time addressing Edinburgh's shortage of hotel bedrooms."

Sinclair Beecham MBE, who co-founded sandwich chain Pret a Manger in 1986 with friend Julian Metcalfe, said: "I'm delighted to have the opportunity to build our second hotel in the UK in Scotland's first destination city.

"Whiteburn and Allan Murray Architects have done a terrific job in accommodating our demanding requirements for an efficient, modern hotel operation into a sensitive World Heritage site such as this one in Edinburgh's Old Town."

The developers said discussions have already taken place with various stakeholders, including Edinburgh World Heritage, Historic Scotland, business leaders, councillors and community groups.

However, some elements of the scheme are likely to prove controversial – including the absence of any homes.

Backers will also need to secure alcohol licences for the restaurant, festival venue and nightclub – which could lead to a repeat of the problems that affected the nearby Hotel du Vin chain. Councillors initially refused to make an exception to a ban on new licences in the Cowgate area, which is designed to cut down on antisocial behaviour, but performed a U-turn earlier this year.

Whiteburn today said its venues would require fewer licences than were in place before the fire.

In December 2002, the Cowgate blaze – blamed on a faulty fuse box – took 150 fire crews 52 hours to extinguish, and caused millions of pounds of damage.

Whiteburn investigated a variety of different options – including housing and student residences – before settling on the plans submitted today.

In the final design, the development is mainly accessed from South Bridge, but also the Cowgate.

The 10,000 square metre site also includes the upper levels of the existing former Edinburgh University corner building on Chambers Street, and a small annex building of the neighbouring Faith nightclub.

The family-owned Whiteburn Group is behind Cafe Rouge on Frederick Street, and built the award-winning Tun building in Holyrood.

David Shepherd started the Edinburgh-based company 23 years ago, and stood down as chairman earlier this year.

John Shepherd and his brother Sam took over the day-to-day running of the business with the establishment of Whiteburn Projects Ltd as the development arm in 1992.


THE PLANS IN DETAIL:
Boutique hotel with 200-to-220 bedrooms, run by Hoxton Urban Lodge, accessed from South Bridge.

• Atrium space inside the hotel, with lobby and bar area, opening on to rear courtyard.

• Lower level restaurant, open to the public, accessed through the hotel or from the Cowgate.

• A "tower" rising up from the Cowgate, housing hotel bedrooms, linked to the rest of the hotel on South Bridge via glass walkways.

• Two new courtyards, linked to South Bridge and Chambers Street via two new pends, and down to the Cowgate via new public steps.

• Existing steps down from Guthrie Street retained, and Hastie's Close repaired and repaved.

• One large shop on South Bridge, with potential for cafe.

• Business centre on the Cowgate for conferences.

• Potential festival venue, to replace the Gilded Balloon.

• Rebuilt nightclub on the site of La Belle Angele.

• Views of the Old College dome from Hunter Square.



The full article contains 943 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Buttress,

23/09/2008 11:45:24
Another PR piece from Alan Roden. Easy money, eh?

Another bland clone town development from Allan Murray.

Why no houses?

2

hubris,

here 23/09/2008 11:56:27
Why so bitter Buttress?
3

Buttress,

23/09/2008 12:08:18
Why think I'm bitter?

Silly comment, hubris.

4

alex patersons English teacher,

23/09/2008 12:09:35
Oh we are the lads from Country Life.
And you’ll never put a bitter bit of buttress on your knife...
5

Duncan in Edinburgh,

23/09/2008 12:14:56
I see we're still referring to when "a major fire ripped through the heart of the Old Town". I would have thought, had this *actually* happened, that it would be a far greater cause for UNESCO concern than the demolition of an old garage at the bottom of the hill. In fact as we all know the Old Town remains largely intact despite this loss of a couple of old warrens on the Cowgate.
6

,

23/09/2008 12:16:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

Hector the Red,

23/09/2008 12:19:45
looks like an unfinished lighthouse.....reallly in keeping with the area......not!
8

alex paterson,

edinburgh 23/09/2008 12:19:52
This looks very smart,cant wait to get up there for a closer look.
9

Hector the Red,

23/09/2008 12:26:02
Should it not be SoHo Development not SoCo, no prossers in the picture either!
10

Seb,

23/09/2008 12:30:08
Doesn't look too bad for an AMA project.
11

It's me!,

23/09/2008 12:36:42
"SoCo will be a collection of buildings in sympathy with the contrasting urban grains of Chambers Street, South Bridge and the Cowgate, complemented by a network of closes and vennels" ...... eh?

Bullsh!te might baffle brains but I'm not that stupid. This is nothing more than the tosh spoken by so called experts who consider a pile of bricks to be art. It's time for the citizens to rise against this rubbish and reclaim their city.
12

Incandescent,

23/09/2008 12:44:37
#1 Buttress

I've agreed with a lot of your previous comments, however you're fulfilling a lot of people's opinions of you as a knee-jerk, nimby, naysayer by instantly decrying this design.

1. It's better than X many more years of a gap site.
2. Who in their right mind can claim the Cowgate has any architectural merit, however old it is?
3. "no houses?" - let's see, a severe lack of natural light and drunken rabbles in the street from Thursday to Sunday night. The only folk who would want to live there would be students who want the shortest possible walk to Bannerman's.
13

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 12:45:56
#11

Reclaim their city for what? I'm not sure what you're problem is. Are you arguing for more egalitarian architecture?
14

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 13:03:19
Nice to see the possiblity of another of Edinburgh's derelict bombsites being developed and used.

As #5 Duncan points out "this loss of a couple of old warrens on the Cowgate" is exactly the case, in fact it is perhaps more of a pity that more of the warrens in this area were not lost at the same time. Having said that we should alll be thankful that no lives were lost. I shudder to think what would have been the outcome if this fire had happened some hours later that night.
15

hubris,

23/09/2008 13:12:00
Well Buttress the other posters seem a bit more balanced but all your posts on these boards are blatantly whinging thats all.

So sorry you find it silly but frankly yours are just boring....and bitter.

Bye
16

THE BPRENTICE,

23/09/2008 13:26:27
#15 hubris, surely buttress is entitled to her opinion?

...on another story today she wrote: "Oh what utter, craven nonsense!" ... good effort I say ... still chuckling over the devastating use of the word "craven".
17

spiritussancti,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 13:35:02
ultimately it's for the benefit of the city and, as howard moon says, sth clerk st/cowgate is not exactly the shining jewel of edinburgh's architectural magnificence. gotta love those people who really just can't stand progress/change and label it as messing/unfitting...
18

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 23/09/2008 13:41:28
Allan Murray has got all his drones working hard on these comment boards..
19

John Gibson's Toyboy,

- 23/09/2008 13:42:28
Zoot alors! Interesting elevations from AMA. Who'd have thought.
Just a pity it finally comes before planning as the world economy goes down the pan.
Finished in 2011?? Try 2021....
20

Buttress,

23/09/2008 13:51:02
6 - Howard Moon - who is Julie?

15 Hubris - out for an afternoon troll then?

12 Incandescent - ditto. Done a survey, have you? ;-)

Housing was part of the council brief for the site. Why has this been ignored? Not as profitable for the developer?

'City architect' - used to a term used to describe someone who was employed by a major city. Allan Murray may reside in Embra but that's all.

This report is a piece of developer PR puff. Mr Roden seems to specialise in those.

19 - I think you may be on to something there!







21

Buttress,

23/09/2008 13:52:08
16 - that wasn't today! Where have you been hibernating?

22

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 13:56:06
Come on Buttress. Who's Julie? 'Trolls'? Allan Murray paranoia?

Disappointing. I would have expected better from you.
23

hubris,

23/09/2008 14:03:35
Its all a conspiracy Butress

Why so bitter?
24

Buttress,

23/09/2008 14:05:00
I'm not and never have been called Julie! Oh dear. Marbles gone, Howard Moon? And yes trolls.

Murray - hardly paranoia, but he's not a great architect, is he?

25

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 14:06:28
#19 Old Town Resident

I'm an Old Town Resident (and owner) too.

I don't know Allan Murray, but I welcome new developments which in-fill the many bombsites around/in this town. I welcome both Caltongate and this new soCo building (hope both go ahead).

#16 THE BPRENTICE,

Of course Buttress is entitled to both hold and express her opinions, but of course so are the rest of us, a fact which Buttress and some others of like 'mind' frequently wish to forget and ignore.


26

Buttress,

23/09/2008 14:06:59
26 They don't.

Apart from Mr Roden, whose reports are so dreadfully biased...

27

Buttress,

23/09/2008 14:08:27
Peewee -twaddle. You keep 'expressing' your opinions, freely, and really - do you not have any idea who Murray is?

How very odd...
28

alec splode,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 14:09:44
There's quite enough Alan Murray wallpaper adorning the city centre, thank you very much.
29

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 14:15:37
I never said your name was Julie, Buttress. All I know is Julie and Sally are two resilient ladies, not to be messed with.

Anyway, Frank Lloyd Wright could be resurrected to design a building for the Old Town and you and 'Old Town Resident' wouldn't be happy.
30

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 14:23:48
#29 Buttress

Buttress, I do wish you'd learn to read I know who Allan Murray is, what I said was I don't know him personally.
31

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 23/09/2008 14:27:30
man of action....I really doubt that there will be a www.saveallanmurraybuildings.org in 40 odd years do you?
32

Buttress,

23/09/2008 14:29:19
33 I doubt it - I suspect like the St James' centre, there will be clamour for demolition!

In fact, the Omni really would benefit from that... very soon...
33

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 14:32:55
#34

I remember Julie being quoted as saying Caltongate was 'like St James Square on boxing day all over again'. Loved that quote.

Anyway, I suppose the question is, in 40 years time, will you be in favour of demolition or against it?
34

Buttress,

23/09/2008 14:35:18
Where is that quote from?

In forty years' time I doubt I will still be around to have any say.
35

spiritussancti,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 14:44:18
who cares who the architect is....why is it such an issue, if wasn't this murray chap. it would be someone else who would be vilified and such...
36

spiritussancti,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 14:46:37
and...old town resident, just because some people have opinions that differ from yours, they don't automatically become "drones" nor do they belong to anyone. such insufferable intolerance is just sadly disappointing and immature...
37

Seb,

23/09/2008 14:53:48
"such insufferable intolerance is just sadly disappointing and immature..."

oooeeeeoooo! smack his hands!!!
38

Buttress,

23/09/2008 15:03:50
Dearie me - the trolls are out in force this afternoon! Mr Murray's staff, perhaps?

For those interested in Edinburgh and its World Heritage Site (that'll not be Allan Murray then)
there's a talk on October 6th:

THE ARCHITECTURAL HERITAGE SOCIETY OF SCOTLAND
FOR THE STUDY AND PROTECTION OF SCOTTISH ARCHITECTURE
FORTH & BORDERS GROUP
Winter Lecture Series 2008 – 2009

Lectures will take place at the Society’s National
Headquarters, the Glasite Meeting House,
33 Barony Street, Edinburgh, on Mondays at 6.30pm.

Admission: £6 non-members/ £5 members/ £2.50 students.
Members may attend 6 lectures for £25.

Monday 6 October 2008

Adam Wilkinson - ‘The Fruits of Our Labours’
Adam Wilkinson will speak on the practical side of dealing with scholarship which leads to a better understanding and a need to protect and repair, with particular reference to Edinburgh’s World Heritage Site. Adam Wilkinson was appointed Director of Edinburgh World Heritage in April 2008. Previously he was Secretary of the campaigning charity SAVE Britain’s Heritage and its sister organisation SAVE Europe’s Heritage. In his last post he worked on the campaign to save Dumfries House and its contents.
39

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 15:08:39
#40 Buttress

God Buttress, you know how to make dull things sound really thrilling.

You can bet this will be a sell out to the local conservation/heritage yokels.

40

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 15:18:14
Peter - I agree with what you say, but at one time you spoke very differently about new developments in the Old Town (I can provide links if you want). Could you tell me what happened to change your mind? I'm interested.

Buttress - How do you go from
'Murray - hardly paranoia, but he's not a great architect, is he?' to
'Dearie me - the trolls are out in force this afternoon! Mr Murray's staff, perhaps?'
In the space of a few minutes?

Do you just share the Buttress username around, so you can deny your identity should anyone ask for it? There definitely is a 'nice Buttress' and a 'snappy Buttress'. I like the nice Buttress.
41

Buttress,

23/09/2008 15:18:47
Oh, I am sure it will be really interesting actually! Highly recommended! ;-)


42

Buttress,

23/09/2008 15:21:17
Oh Howard Moon - daft accusations again!

Nice Buttress nasty Buttress - what delusional behaviour Howard Moon. There's only one of me, and I'm not paranoid.

Magnus Linklater doesn't care for his architecture either. Said so in the Times.

43

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 15:29:40
I don't care for it much either. Not too sure what that has to do with anything. This design isn't to be 'celebrated' necessarily, but it is most definitely welcome.

Buttress, 15:03: 'Dearie me - the trolls are out in force this afternoon! Mr Murray's staff, perhaps?'
Buttress, 15:21: 'I'm not paranoid'

?
44

hubris,

23/09/2008 15:41:48
bitter bitter butress
better not bait (him/her)

as for the Lecture please advise how the learned speaker was going to protect and preserve a fire damaged site
45

Buttress,

23/09/2008 15:45:26
Try 'wry comment'. You know - small joke. ;-)
46

Buttress,

23/09/2008 15:47:19
Well hubris - maybe you should go along and ask him yourself? Although it seems to me that isn't specifically what the talk is about.

Interesting lecture series over the winter though.




47

Mr H 2u,

Embra 23/09/2008 15:52:45
Are we not legally compelled to shoot people who use the phrase "funky budget boutique" hotel?

If not, we should be.
48

Buttress,

23/09/2008 15:59:14
49 - Yes, it really worries me that Embra is at the mercy of those who think that sort of adspeak is acceptable. Or, indeed, comprehensible.
49

Duncan in Edinburgh,

23/09/2008 16:06:37
I'm afraid when someone starts claiming that those who disagree with them are plants, their argument is already lost. Do you seriously think anyone here works for Allan Murray, Buttress?
50

Buttress,

23/09/2008 16:07:44
Have you never heard of 'humour' Duncie?

No, clearly not.



51

Duncan in Edinburgh,

23/09/2008 16:15:38
#52 Heard of it, yes. Seen it from you, no.
52

THE BPRENTICE,

23/09/2008 16:17:10
27 Peter - very disappointed/concerned,Edinburgh

Don't twist things pedro - buttress had an opinion and then, instead of proffering a counter-argument - all that seemed to come forward was a personal attack. Its not right to try and bully someone off these boards, no matter how much they try and 'big up' their employer on it ... guessing some connection to EWHT ... since buttress never seems to miss a chance to extoll their virtues. The free advertsing is almost craven.

Seriously though Pedro, if ou red the relevant posts again, I'm sure you'll agree it wasn't fair to bbe called dull just because someone doesn't agree with her opinion?
53

Buttress,

23/09/2008 16:18:22
52 - I rest my case. ;-)
54

Buttress,

23/09/2008 16:22:38
54 Dear me - still that old accusation! Yawn.

No, I have no employer. No connection at all. Just think they do a decent job!

Bullying? Well, takes a bit more than some of the daft stuff posted on here to shut me up. All out in force today though!

'Funky'. Do people really use that word?








55

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 16:28:36
#54

Personal attack? Not fair? Bullying?

You seriously think Buttress is unfairly treated on these boards? Fair would be to report her posts unsuitable, for, you say, the free advertising and genuine trolling (look up what it actually means) is completely shameless. She attacks anyone who voices a different opinion, either they are a troll, or they work for an architect, or they are paranoid, or worse.
It's fair game.

We do love her though.
56

Duncan in Edinburgh,

23/09/2008 16:28:41
#55 How foolish of you, because you have proved nothing.

*raises one eyebrow, swishes out*
57

Buttress,

23/09/2008 16:28:51
'Scotland's first destination city'

Oh dear oh dear.



58

Buttress,

23/09/2008 16:29:55
Duncie Duncie - you know you are like that old Monty Python sketch - only here for the argument. Any argument.

59

,

23/09/2008 16:30:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
60

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

23/09/2008 16:31:55
#18 - the Cowgate pretty ugly at the best of times ?
C'mon, I've seen what you've married !
61

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

23/09/2008 16:32:36
But at least the Cowgate can be improved
62

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

23/09/2008 16:32:55
#64 - Fair point
63

Casey Beer,

23/09/2008 16:34:46
#55 "52 - I rest my case. ;-)"


You're talking to yourself again.
64

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 16:52:33
#42 Howard Moon

Howard, sorry for the delay in getting back but I've had a very busy spell this pm.

To answer your enquiry, there are many reasons why I have changed my view(s). Here are some of them:-

1. I live about 300 yards from CaltonGate, just off the Royal Mile and although originally opposed, came to see that what was being offered (£300 million of dev.) was a damned site better than the existing derelict/scarcely used buildings which were New Street. To date we have not been inconvenienced to any extent by works done on the site. The fact that it now lies empty is annoying many of us as it is beginning to become something of a dustbowl in spite of our awful climate.

2. Other developments in the area, e.g. the new student residences at Buchanan Court, the new CEC HQ, the Barratts flats at Lochend Wynd and the flats opposite the Calton Studio are all swanky new-builds which blend well with the area. CaltonGate will not be out of place here, why oppose it?

3. Too much intervention and efforts made by heritage/coservation groups to stop/hinder many of these new developments - elsewhere in the world these groups would be made to pay for the delays they cause.

4. In general, I feel that towns are for people to live and work in, they are not museums/time-capsules and while many buildings are worthy of preservation/conservation, not every old building should be wrapped up in cotton wool.

5. I think that the whole operation of planning/building control should be made easier to understand and should be a free service (at least for housing) paid for out of the Council Tax. I do not think that Local Authorities should have the power to dictate whether or not someone can fit central heating, double glazing, update/install ventilation systems, change paint work on doors, windows, etc.

These are just some of my reasons and, sorry I've got to go now as I have to answer the 'phone.

Cheers,

Peter








65

Buttress,

23/09/2008 16:58:27
56 - clearly you are delusional.

Think I'm called all manner of names too, which don't belong to me!

Oh well. Quite amusing.

66 - No I was talking to Duncie, post 59, before the flouncing off.

"With its funky budget boutique approach, this hotel hit the ground running when it opened in Shoreditch, one of London's hippest districts, last year..."

I had never thought of Shoreditch as a funkily hip location.

Clearly that man's delusional also.

Hit the ground running?

These are the people who think they are the future of Embra?







66

calum,

23/09/2008 17:03:19
Yep, it was interesting how the Gilded Balloon fire was put down to a faulty fusebox not long after it was revealed that they were in financial difficulties. Still, with such influential members of their Board there would be no possibility of impropriety....oh no, not at all.
67

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 17:04:49
#54 THE BPRENTICE

I really don't believe your comment.

If Buttress "doesn't like the heat she should stay out off the kitchen". The Internet is often a place of no quarter.

Her own responses are often nothing short of vitriolic and I am sure this lady is more than capable of standing her own ground (all strength to her).

Anyway, I can well imagine (as surely will most other posters)the boring, stuffy nature of the meeting she refers to.

68

Casey Beer,

23/09/2008 17:07:15
#70 "66 - No I was talking to Duncie, post 59, before flouncing off."

You're having a laugh! You're post at number fifty five referred to a future post 59? Well done.

#84 Buttress agrees with you. Or maybe doesn't. I don't know yet.
69

Buttress,

23/09/2008 17:13:12
Vitriol Peewee? Another who is delusional!

Oh I dunno - I hear the AHSS meetings are a funky fabby riot of sex n drugs n rock an roll.

Or maybe I'm becoming delusional? It's reading the PR hype Mr Roden prints as news, in the end must get to people.

Whatever.

73 That's Duncie as in post 59. Do keep up.



70

Buttress,

23/09/2008 17:15:00
'Swanky new builds...'

It's got to Peewee too.
71

Casey Beer,

23/09/2008 17:17:26
#74

"73 That's Duncie as in post 59."
Yes I know you are referring to Duncie, as you so sweetly call him, but you couldn't have been referring to a future post. Could you?

"Do keep up."
I can't. I don't have a crystal ball.
72

Seb,

23/09/2008 17:22:34
The Architectural Heritage meetings are probably all tweed and pearl necklaces...
73

Buttress,

23/09/2008 17:28:22
Really? Tweed?

I quite like a bit of rough stuff.

Tell us about the pearl necklaces then...
74

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 23/09/2008 17:32:26
No Seb, you are more likely to encounter a string of pearls at good old council meetings.

http://www.edinburghoutlook.com/article.php?article_id=1470

75

Seb,

23/09/2008 17:34:35
Buttress, I'll go if you go. You'll recognise me as I'll be dripping with pearls...
76

Kitti Kat,

Newtown Square 23/09/2008 17:41:32
Another UGLY new building going up in what was once the beautiful Edinburgh. HOw sad!!
77

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 17:48:18
67, Peter

Thanks for that response. I think you make some very thoughtful points and I admire you for being humble enough to change your mind. Not many people can. None of the people posting on here believe that developments like Caltongate or the one referred to in this story represent the best architectural achievements of all time, but we are at the same time not so delusional as to believe that this is realistic. They are good solutions to problems in the city, namely gap sites, and present good development opportunities.

Buttress knows the game and plays it well. If you want to know what her interest is in all of these Old Town stories I'm sure all you have to do is ask and she will be only too happy to tell you. She's a passionate, determined lady, whose passion is admirable.
78

Seb,

23/09/2008 17:52:10
(Howard sweeps Buttress up on to his charger and they gallop off down the Canongate...)
79

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 18:21:56
LOL!

It was a touch tongue-in-cheek Mr Coe, but a funny image nonetheless.
80

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

23/09/2008 19:08:40
#68 - Pity your wife can't get any help though. If ever a demolishing job was justified, this is it.
81

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

23/09/2008 19:09:02
I'm not joking
82

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

23/09/2008 19:10:09
I know you aren't, but lay off my wife - I do.
83

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 23/09/2008 19:37:36
#83 Seb

(Howard sweeps Buttress up on to his charger and they gallop off down the Canongate...)

Seb, it is therefore to be profoundly hoped that Sir William Wallace and a fully equipped Scottish 'hedgehog' has not taken station at the bottom of the Cannongate.

Remember the fate of the English cavalry at Stirling Bridge?
84

elayne,

23/09/2008 20:48:48
wtf is a "funky budget boutique hotel"??????is that something like the famous chelsea hotel in new york,which housed musicians on the skids,and is now upmarket and full of well off folks pretending to slum it!
85

Think Tank,

23/09/2008 21:08:58
It's pretty clear for all to see that the poster going by the name of "Buttress" has an agenda against Allan Murray and his business. He/She/It is unable to make any kind of objective comment about the building because within 4 minutes of reading "Allan Murray" and seeing a single elevation computer generated image, he/she/it is in overdrive criticism mode.

Sadly this is exactly how organisations such as the Cockburn Association carry out their business. I can see them searching for their default "objection" letter now. I wonder how many words actually change in their default objection letter with each new development in Edinburgh?

Buttress would garner more respect if he/she/it decided to take a considered view of the application having seen it in full. But no, Allan Murray's on the paperwork so it's a big "no" from Buttress.



86

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 21:36:07
You're perceptive Think Tank, or as poor wee defenseless Buttress is so fond of calling you, 'Septic'. Not that she ever does anything other than receive unwarranted abuse, you understand.

You're right about the Cockburn Association et al. They huff and puff, and make objection after objection after objection. And yet for all that negativity, what have they got to show for it? They hate every building that's been built in this city (unless its old and listed), because they never actually have anything positive to say. Who wants to listen to people like that?

87

Rodger the Leith lodger,

edinburgh 23/09/2008 21:39:24
#89 wtf is a "funky budget boutique hotel"??????

Well, probably something that looks a bit better than what was a crumbly and smelly old hole. Maybe we should just make it a megga tartan gift shop with a wee olde wurld scone, whisky and tablet 'centre of excelence'?
88

Think Tank,

23/09/2008 22:08:54
Actually Howard Moon you're wrong. The Cockburn Association managed to object to now listed buildings too! Their new criteria for non-objection appears however to be >100 years old thereby satisfactorily ensuring objection to any new development.

Then of course there's Historic Scotland. No doubt they'll put their objection in. I'm not sure how serious you can take an objection from an organisation branded "inept and incompetent" by the Scottish Public Service Ombudsman.

89

Buttress,

23/09/2008 22:19:41
Ah - Septic. I was so missing your milk of human kindness and perceptive insight. I'm still a she, Septic! It's maybe you who is the '..it'? ;-)


Maybe just maybe the Cockburn has useful stuff to say, but surely you must have contacted it to know for sure before pinning sticky digits to keyboard? I recall it being supportive of the council's planning brief for the site, shame the developer strayed far from that, eh?


Banal, Howard Moon, banal. Oddly similar in style to Septic, too.

And maybe just maybe - I have seen the plans?

Allam Murray. Nope, not a great architect.

You know - you're starting to sound like Alan Dunlop. Both of you.

'Funky' Yeah right. Funky.




90

Buttress,

23/09/2008 22:28:08
Same old comments, half baked, quarter understood, trotted out time and again. Septic, Howard Moon... one and the same... yawn.

Any second now Septic will trot out the lie (repeated by Richard Murphy at the planning meeting for the Haymarket Tower) that the Cockburn objected to the building of the Blamoral. No it didn't. It asked for the clocktower to be lowered, in order views of the castle not be obscured.


Historic Scotland - listing nothing to do with planning, and how about asking it for its views instead of guessing?





91

Buttress,

23/09/2008 22:41:15
Oh - a quote from Seb from a previous post on the subject of HS and the report quoted (out of context):


"...Mr White is an interesting man - vicious correspondant. You should read the letter with the planning application in which he catalogues his grievances, climaxing in blaming HS for the death of a parent. Interestingly, the letter's been removed from the portal...

I believe HS erred, not in entering his property, but standing on his land"


I gather he wanted to demolish a house which was subsequently listed, and build two blocks of flats designed by none other than - Richard Murphy.

92

Howard Moon,

23/09/2008 23:37:43
You've won this one, Buttress. I agree, lets leave this as a gap site indefinitely. South Bridge and the Cowgate are beautiful parts of our Old Town and in no need of improvement, well maybe if the plan had allocated a couple of flats it would be OK but, since it doesn't, we must reject this obscene plan of Speer proportions.

We've heard your stuff a million times. It's getting tired. But as long as you keep peddling it, reasonable people will keep ensuring it doesn't go unchecked. The Old Town is not a museum!
93

Buttress,

23/09/2008 23:51:49
Not said it was - but you do trot out the same stuff, over and over. It's getting hackneyed and I do wonder why this obsessive interest in me...

Obscene - not, just another clone town commercial development. with a laughable piece of PR puff.

Housing - it's in the Planning Brief. That's the one prepared for the site by the council.
94

,

24/09/2008 00:33:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
95

Duncan in Edinburgh,

24/09/2008 08:53:51
#95 So what is the substantive difference, dear lady, between calling for this design to be altered to incorporate some residential elements, and calling for the North British Hotel design to be altered to change an architectural decision?

There were massive objections to the building of George IV Bridge, and North Bridge. In fact I'm sure one could find, with a suitable amount of digging, objections to the building of the department store on the Cowgate whose gutted site is now the subject of this article.

People don't like change. But change is inevitable.
96

,

24/09/2008 09:09:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
97

Buttress,

24/09/2008 09:14:27
I still think the BPRENTICE thinks I am someone I am not, and has some bizarre obsession and a mistaken idea. In fact not much idea at all. It's quite amusing.

EWH is a charitable trust, whose charitable remit and purpose is very clear. Its activities are detailed on its website. Historic Scotland fulfils a different role entirely.

The Cockburn Association is a stutory consultee on planning matters, I believe?


I also think Duncie is only here to argue with anyone and everyone, atren't you dear man? Does it any any thread he feels the desire, regardless of topic.

The council, which is the local planning authority, asked for the housing element Duncie. The council wrote the planning brief, after wide consultation, (but the developer has chosen to ignore that). That's because these days the way we go about planning cities is a very different matter to the way it used to be.

98

Buttress,

24/09/2008 09:18:26
101 - I can smell you from here.
99

,

24/09/2008 09:25:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
100

Buttress,

24/09/2008 09:33:00
I wasn't there. Can't speak for Old Town Resident.
101

Buttress,

24/09/2008 09:36:44
I note with some amusement that listed as invited to attend was the 'stakeholder'

Caltongate Community Council

Does such an organisation exist? 'Caltongate' is but a heap of rubble in the main.