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Hotel architect: I make no apologies for changing Edinburgh's skyline

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Published Date: 26 May 2009
AN AWARD-winning architect yesterday defended his vision for a controversial £200 million building development, and said he made "no apologies" for the fact it would be visible on Edinburgh's historic skyline.
Richard Murphy was giving evidence at the first day of a public inquiry into the £200 million project on the former Morrison Street goods yard near Haymarket railway station.

The plan consists of a five-star hotel, a three-star hotel, offices,
shops and restaurants.

The most contentious proposal is the 17-storey hotel. Critics including the Cockburn Association, Edinburgh World Heritage and the Dalry Colonies Residents' Association say it will dwarf the area, on the edge of a World Heritage Site.

Yesterday John Campbell, QC, acting for the Cockburn Association, questioned Mr Murphy – the Edinburgh architect who designed the scheme – and Tiger Developments managing director John Nesbitt.

Mr Murphy defended his design, saying: "The hotel does not block any significant views of Edinburgh Castle or St Mary's Cathedral. It is also clear the building can be seen on the skyline and we make no apologies for that."

Asked if the design should reflect something of the ethos of a World Heritage Site, Mr Murphy said: "I think that's getting into quite dangerous territory – it's like saying that it should look like the building next door."

When asked if the leaf-shaped overhang of the hotel's roof was "at the very least untraditional for Scotland", Mr Murphy replied: "Do you means in terms of a croft?"

Former judge Lord McCluskey, due to be called as a witness during the two-week inquiry, has compared the hotel to a "vulgar, tasteless cliff" and wants it scaled back or abandoned completely.

The scheme was originally backed by the council last June but was then passed to the Scottish Government for approval because the site had been owned by the council.

The public inquiry was announced after inspectors from world heritage body Unesco visited Holyrood to investigate the city's World Heritage status.

Mr Nesbitt said the proposed building had the "iconic status" demanded by the InterContinental Hotel Group for its first five-star hotel outside London: "A hotelier of this magnitude has an input into the design."

Asked if InterContinental would still come to the city if the hotel was significantly smaller, Mr Nesbitt replied: "I don't think they would come to a mediocre building."

Local residents attending the inquiry were not swayed by the arguments presented. Maria Kelly of the Dalry Colonies Residents' Association said: "We felt that even at 12 storeys the hotel was too excessive.

"We only found out from reading the Evening News that it had gone up to 17 storeys, and that was the day after the planning application went in."

Miss Kelly added: "I think people appreciate that the car park site has been empty a long time and we're not opposed to it being developed.

"We think the hotel is very oppressive situated next to listed colonies properties and we would like to see more open space included in the plans."

Barbara Thom, planning convener of the West End Community Council, said: "With regard to the design of the tower block, residents cannot understand the frequent reference to a 'leaf shape' in support of its architectural merit. The tower footprint can only be appreciated as such from the air and has no significance for the man in the street."





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1

Buttress,

26/05/2009 00:08:38
No apologies? That's because he's an egotistic *rs* though.

It's dire and he knows it. But my how he loves the publicity!

Iconic? Don't be daft. It's a mediocre, ugly lump which will be a blot on the landscape. But it will of course make cash for some, and that's all they care about.
2

Iainbroch,

26/05/2009 00:49:17
What an arrogant man this Murphy is! I would tell him to go - well where the sun does not shine but it seems that he believes that it shines even there!
3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 01:28:30

None the respect of others, and public opinion!

And I make "no apologies" to where you can 'stick' your, changing Edinburgh's "skyline", and that is in a place, 'Where-the-Sun-Dont-Shine'!




4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 01:38:58

Iainbroch ~2,

Oops! sorry!, I was soo mad, I did not read what you said, our thoughts on the matter are the same!
Maybe Richard Murphy did not take into consideration the effects of his 'rear' of the building would have!




5

Iainbroch,

26/05/2009 02:14:14
re4

No worries. Everytime I visit Edinburgh it just gets uglier and uglier and messier and so on!

I guess that will be another hotel that I cant afford to stay at?

I guess slaughtering another of the geese that lays those golden eggs - do they never stop to think what they are doing?
6

Pilrig,

Livingston 26/05/2009 05:34:05
The spirit of St James Centre prevails...
7

Phillip,

26/05/2009 06:48:50
I know where he can put his 17 story monster! Right up his...

At least today these things get a public hearing. Back when Labour controlled Holyrood it would have been built without any public scrutiny after the appropriate deposits into Labour bank accounts.
8

Russell M,

Stirling 26/05/2009 07:03:42
Edinburgh's historic skyline is of man made objects. Why should architects of the past be more important than architects of today? Victorian buildings, for example, are colourful, elaborate, and bold. They display a rampant decorative impulse.

So let's be clear why we are saying NO!

Is it because the new buildings won't meet the needs of the people who will use them? Or is it because we have so little control of our lives that saying no is the only authority the government allows us to wield?
9

overton,

aberdeen 26/05/2009 07:10:57
Richard Murphy is correct to stick to his principals. This development will fill up the unsightly gap site and will be a great benefit to Dalry and the Capital.
10

john z,

edinburgh 26/05/2009 07:13:10
Of course this architect makes no apologies. In future, he will be known as the man who made a mess of Edinburgh. Fellow architects will call him "bold, daring, courageous etc..." and so on.

This will make his career and global reputation. Time and again, this kind of thing has been done by architects. It's about making a name for themselves. Period.

Of course Edinburgh council will fall for it hook, line and sinker.

Oh, and let's be clear, there is no doubt, he will have been told on the quiet by the developer hotel group, that they MUST have a hotel that sticks out on the skyline, regardless of the historical status of Edinburgh.

Are they actually going to get this super duper 5 star hotel?? my guess is, that as soon a planning permission is given, the purpose will get changed to 'offices to let'. I mean we are in a global recession. WHO is going to stay in yet one more five star hotel in Edinburgh.

Lies, lies, lies.
11

dba,

HAYMARKET! 26/05/2009 07:40:41
1: 'his vision'? EH? This arrogant egotist has IGNORED the views of so many people and bodies as to take the breath away!
2: NO ONE man should be allowed to carry out such visual vandalism of one of the main'gateways' to the Georgian 'jewels' that is the New Town.
3: One man's 'vision' is going to be everyone else's NIGHTMARE
4: This project should be stopped dead in it's tracks and a construction more appropriate to the general character of the area and TRULY visually pleasing for both locals and visitors constructed.
5: NONE of the architects involved lived or have had anything to do the Haymarket area!
6: Just for once, park the ego and fees and actually THINK about the locals!
12

It's me!,

26/05/2009 07:51:09
This man gives architects a bad, bad name. And of course if this goes ahead it will make him very rich.
13

eric,

lthn 26/05/2009 08:08:54
Glasgow can get away with this and it looks brilliant in some ways,But not here ,they just stick out like carbuncle.
14

Buttress,

26/05/2009 08:13:59
Other buildings which punctuate the skyline are slim, and mainly buildings which were designed to have some public benefit or meaning.

They tend not to be lit up at night either, as the upper stories of this hotel will be.

This is a crass commercial development, and the height is only because the developers want the maximum profit from the site.

They hoped they could get away with it as it is just outside the World Heritage Site boundary; it is designed as the Trojan Horse. Once that is built, then naturally all other developers will be claiming it as a precedent.

Prof Herb Stovel, an expert on Edinburgh's World Heritage Site, is, I understand, going to give evidence on how damaging to Edinburgh this hotel would be if built. There will who are silly and arrogant enough to claim that this damage doesn't matter, that World Heritage doesn't matter, but there is a wider view of the world than simply how much cash can be screwed from a building site by developers and their hired hands, who naturally will claim their design is wonderful. It isn't. It's the wrong building for this site.

15

Rap,

26/05/2009 08:19:56
#9 and 10
This isn't actually about anyone saying no, it't about the Scottish Ministers calling in the plans because they have a requirement to check that any financial benefits that the Council get as a result of approving the scheme (all above board) have not influenced their due diligence in assessing it's impact. The Ministers summarised that they were not entirely happy that this process was sufficiently rigourous and so we get a public inquiry.

The Reporter (of the inquiry) decides what the outcome will be, not us. And he gets to determine whether existing planning policies and local plans (which the public can contribute and comment on) have been followed in granting this planning approval by the Planning committee.

And yet again I'll say, yes this is a gap site, but we don't need to be stupid enough to accept the first egotistical proposal that comes along. We all deserve the best.
16

Paesano,

26/05/2009 08:30:25
What's wrong with leaving the site as it is.....it's gorgeous and what is more, great fun in the rain....playing lucky dip with your car's suspension!

I echo the thoughts re this pumped up pr@t. I am surprised he was allowed the scope to provide sarcastic answers during the inquiry.
17

Buttress,

26/05/2009 08:30:32
Sadly, over and over CEC has shown it is stupid enough :-(
18

Elvis G,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 08:46:57
Richard Murphy is not the problem, the problem is Edinburgh's planning department. In considering an application they continually take the nearest highest point and allow development up to that point, even if that point is a single chimney!

Lately there have been a number of ghastly examples, specifically the "boxes" at the ERI site at the Meadows. Previously the Meadows were a wee oasis, now the glass boxes that rise way above the trees on the north side of the Meadows are overbearing and ever present. I understand that the planners are also supporting a large hotel that would overshadow the Catholic Cathedral.

Another development that has brought an urban building form into a greenspace area is the new building at the west gate of the Botanic Gardens. While the building itself is actually quite a good design, it is too large for its location and thoroughly innapropriate.

Edinburgh has a unique skyline, lets try to keep it that way. Sadly Edinburgh's planning department has lost the place!
19

noswod,

Honestas 26/05/2009 09:07:25
Unfortunately the so called award winning Archetects would not win any prizes in places with comparable skylines Rome or Paris. Another glass box built as cheaply as possible with no intellectual or artistic merit. Designed to appeal to the astectic appreciation of Lager Louts. First rule must be as its Edinburgh you use Edinburgh stone, second rule nay mair cheap glass boxes built by spivs and designed by three year old drawers. Please save us Mr Reporter.
20

A Crofter,

Alba-Dross 26/05/2009 09:07:51
SSSI? World Herutage site?

Anybody know any obedient planning inquiry reporters?

We've got wot it takes!
21

Njal,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 09:10:57
I am an admirer of many of Richard Murphy's previous designs. I think he is a good architect and money concerns are not first on his list of priorities. My overwhelming feeling with this design however, is one of disappointment. Perhaps it is the size of the project (the largest his practise has undertaken I believe) but it strikes me as unexceptional. No doubt it will function well as a building, but I think it could have been a little more radical (especially as seen on the Edinburgh skyline). Nevertheless, I wish it well - let's hope folk still have the money to come and stay in the city.
22

Buttress,

26/05/2009 09:13:16
I note that students today are as daft as they have ever been, and Mr Adrian Welch continues his one person crusade against World Heritage (shame it's so blatantly biased):-

http://www.edinburgharchitecture.co.uk/scott_sutherland_manifesto_edinburgh.htm

www.towardsanewedinburgh.co.uk

News Update - 22 May 2009
The masters degree unit at Scott Sutherland School in Aberdeen have now prepared a manifesto for Edinburgh: Towards a New Edinburgh. It is the culmination of nine months of study looking at the city and in particular the UNESCO world heritage site. The attached website contains details of 18 student projects and much more:


"PRESENT…
Today Edinburgh is stuck in a rut. The arrival of World Heritage Status has
strangled the birth of innovative architecture. So concerned for the need to
maintain a consistent aesthetic for the city, buildings are stripped bare of all
architectural expression to reveal yet another bland sandstone creation
which will fade nicely into the background."

Actually it's got more to do with developers who want Allan Murray to design buildings for them. Those don't exactly fade into the background, do they? Sore thumbs tend not to.

However, note Mr W is an architect.






23

Buttress,

26/05/2009 09:17:04
Still, I note Alan Dunlop was involved.

I also note this:

"We will seek to challenge the idea that in order for you to respect the built heritage of Edinburgh and the UNESCO World Heritage accreditation you must build new replicas of historic buildings."

Well, if this is what students are being taught heaven help us. It's totally untrue.

Read the Vienna Memorandum Alan Dunlop. Jeez.

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/vienna_memorandum.htm
24

Buttress,

26/05/2009 09:22:21
That's this Alan Dunlop:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7854544.stm


25

Koffindodger,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 10:13:07
I personally don't haved any problem with a tall iconic building being built at this pretty cruddy site but it would have been better if they had hired one of the literally dozens of much cooler architects like Hadid, Gehry, Nouvel or Ando.

The building is "alright" but just not quite good enough to be a gateway to the city.
26

cabrach loon,

inverness 26/05/2009 10:17:41
Just looked at pics of the schemes, it appears to be 1950's cut price box designs with tacky panels, surely something better can be achieved than this / it is just totally mediocre and the low rise buildings look like what the English put up along Victoria Street in London to house the civil servants' offices. Little boxes full of ticky tacky!
Back to the drawing board Murphy, not much better than the drawings of five year olds.
What is it about architects that makes them so arrogant in their mediocrity. Edinburgh already has the Holyrood spotted cow, now it wants to achieve an uninspired 1950's cut price layout of boxes. There are may good looking 17 storied buildings in the world and 4 storied blocks all of which at least have some intelligent input and design in them not just 1-2-3m panels multiplied by x!
27

Koffindodger,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 10:17:52
Also I get the whole wing/leaf motif but has anyone looked into what its going to be like near this building on a really windy day?

28

Buttress,

26/05/2009 10:35:00
Iconic - the most overused word in the architectural vocabulary. It's not an icon, it is a building which is as yet just a drawing.
29

Buttress,

26/05/2009 10:40:19
Meanwhile, in other universities:-

http://www.bathheritagewatchdog.org/notredame.htm
30

Leila,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 10:47:23
If you want to see another example of Richard Murphy’s ego and his disdain for any limitations on his great architectural vision, look no further than the house he wants to build in Hart Street which he got the Planning Committee to approve even though it clearly contravened umpteen planning rules and is utterly inappropriate in height, materials and design for its location.
31

Buttress,

26/05/2009 10:52:36
Yes but let's be honest, they only passed it because if not he was gearing hinmself up to a major public spat and an appeal. He loves to see himself as a lone genius against the forces of darkness. They pre-empted that.

Yes it's a mediocre building, once it's built he will no doubt win awards from his fellow architects who haven't much idea either, but the rest of the world will be able to see how poor it is. Still, he will have to live in it, having paid way over the odds for the plot.

32

WJohn,

West Lothian 26/05/2009 11:09:17
Of course people will want to stay in that hotel.
It will be the only location from which the view is not spoiled by an iconic building devised by an award winning drawer.
The roof does not look like a leaf. it looks like the wing casing of an enormous beetle that has landed on a jar of jam
33

Buttress,

26/05/2009 11:13:05
If it wasn't pointed out to you would you know that was his 'inspiration'? And honestly, isn't that sort of 'inspiration' all a teeny bit banal?

His disdain for the surroundings, and the history of the place speaks volumes. He's an architect, clearly, with little sensitivity.



34

Buttress,

26/05/2009 11:19:41
The height is a major planning issue though, with a number of future ramifications if passed.

Of course, another problem is that there is an existing permission for the whole site which many believe overall is a worse scheme. Tiger has made claims that if the tower isn't passed it will build the other.

So the council and Historic Scotlnad supported the tower on that basis, although the extra storeys were simply greed once Tiger realised the hold it has.

There is no-one now with much vision, apart from those with visions of fat bank balances.
35

Billio,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 11:19:58
I'm with #20, the number of ugly buildings that has gotten planning permission in recent years is just beyond funny.

The thing is, I studied architecture at uni, and we were taught to respect your neighbouring buildings and local surroundings... evidently the word "heritage" is lost amongst many architects... maybe that explains why I now work in IT!

And there's loads of other buildings they can build instead of another hotel, 5 star or otherwise... a public park that matches Prince Street Gardens perhaps (hey if they can afford a 17 storey 5 star hotel they can afford to do a park); or in light of the nation's push for a "greener" environment, an "Eco" park (they were fun to design) or one of those eco friendly office buildings that would be used for the public or voluntary sector rather than private sector; hell, even a supermarket is a better option that Murphy's proposal...

...or not lol
36

Buttress,

26/05/2009 11:24:16
But all they as developers are interested in is profit, and parks don't make profit.
37

Buttress,

26/05/2009 11:30:37
There's of Murphy's ego here:-

http://news.scotsman.com/edinburghplanningissues/Architect-defends-design-of-17storey.5301423.jp#4062691



38

,

26/05/2009 11:39:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
39

King Richard IV,

Brisbane 26/05/2009 11:44:00
"It's terrible" I can see it from here!!
40

Buttress,

26/05/2009 11:48:26
41 possibly needs to undwerstand a little more of the wider planning policies and other policies which this would contravene. Just becue we are ina recession is no reason why sense should be abandoned.


This isn't a 'planning meeting', it's a public inquiry.
41

Buttress,

26/05/2009 11:52:05
Anyhow, Murphy seems to think it would be 'forever' :-

"AN AWARD-WINNING architect has defended his designs for a controversial 17-storey hotel in Haymarket, saying it would be a significant building which would become famous worldwide.

At the start of a public inquiry into the proposed £200 million development on the former Morrison Street goods yard, which got under way yesterday, Richard Murphy said he hoped the hotel would act as an iconic gateway into Edinburgh's world heritage site.

And he compared the designs, and the reaction of the public to them, as similar to the Balmoral and Caledonian Hotels..."

At this location, there should be a far better design than Murphy has produced, which looks like something a student would design.

42

,

26/05/2009 11:52:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
43

Buttress,

26/05/2009 11:57:17
No, thankfully, it's Edinburgh, which remains, despite some really bad modern buildings,and more to come, one of the world's finest cities, and we need far better than this local short termism. Edinburgh doesn't need this sort of investment to blight it.

Planning policies are the result of a great deal of public consultation. It's called democracy.

44

Billio,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 12:13:47
An interesting thought on the word "forever" in this subject...

Old Victorian buildings, castles, even some of the ruins around the country, are still standing after hundreds of years, some are still in use.

On the flip side, take a ride through Craigmillar or any other areas where they have recently invested and built new housing in, some of them (especially those with the wooden panels for balcony) look like they are ready to be demolished! (I'm pretty sure this doesn't apply to just Edinburgh too!)

Those old buildings survived centuries of war, but our new built doesn't look like it will survive several nights of heavy weather...

I'm skeptical about the quality of modern architecture yes, but when it's done right it can be really pretty and rather inspiring, places like Germany or Japan are some that springs to mind

But of course that's just my tuppence :)
45

Chrislovesbuffy1970,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 12:13:51
Edinburgh will never progress as a genuine world city if every proposed development keeps on being delayed/cancelled by groups/individuals who are firmly stuck in the past. It seems to be the ones who shout loud enough always get their way. I'm all for changing the skyline and welcome more proposals for developing space which currently is a disgrace and an eyesore. Princes Street next please.
46

Buttress,

26/05/2009 12:17:28
But groups are not firmly stuck in the past, it's just that so much proposed for the this beautiful city, with a World Heritage Site at its heart, is simply not good enough. It's a special place with its own unique skyline, and unlike anywhere else, why not keep it special?

This is a public inquiry, into planning issues. If anyone doesn't like the planning policies, did they have any input into consultations about them?
47

Maryann,

26/05/2009 12:17:46
The design is hideous, with no relation to any existing streetscape or skyline. I hope the public enquiry chucks it out.
48

Buttress,

26/05/2009 12:27:19
Reasons for inquiry:-

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/212606/0079309.pdf
49

IainA,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 12:33:15
The Entire story could have summarised in one line:

"Hotel architect: I make no apologies for changing Edinburgh's skyline - because I've got an enormous ego"
50

Delboy,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 13:05:06
Eek...
51

Billy the Fish,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 13:23:28

This 17 storey, massive tower on the edge of the World Heritage site will ruin Edinburgh's skyline for ever. It's simply crazy. Develop the site - sure, but please, please do it intelligently.

Edinburgh's beauty is world famous and attracts huge inflows of capital into our city (goodness knows we need it now our banks have collapsed). Let's not kill the last remaining goose that lays the golden egg by ill thought out schemes that are totally out of keeping with their environment.

52

Man On Corstorphine Omnibus,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 13:40:24
I see Embra's architectural Luddites are out in force today.
Can't we have something modern in this city, just for a change? Anyone really interested in the Edinburgh skyline would try to work with the architect to see how the hotel and traditional buildings could complement one another; but no, it's the usual "no compromise". One of the reasons why so much of the modern commercial architecture in this city is dire is because developers have been forced to "build up" rather than "build out". Other (bigger and better) cities with a prized traditional skyline can still accommodate modern high-rise architecture, so why not Edinburgh?
One more thing, this scheme will not result in the demolition of ONE traditional building. It would fill a big and ugly gap site right in the heart of town - but we'll probably be lumbered with that for the next 20 years if, as is likely, the Luddites get their way.
53

Buttress,

26/05/2009 13:50:27
Yes, something modern would be great for the site, Liddites are not out in force, it's just people would like something GREAT for this site, ina wonderful city on the edge of the World Heritage Site, and into which it will intrude like a one finger salute from the architect.

The architect REFUSED to meet people, and REFUSED any compromise.

Why not Edinburgh? Which cities are you comparing Edinburgh with? It's unique. Keep it that way.

54

himthatknows,

Woodstock 26/05/2009 14:11:26
I suppose the idea of "Old World Elegance" has been lost on this "architect" and InterContinental Hotels...
55

JAL,

Green Bay 26/05/2009 14:25:32
Irrespective of the rights or wrongs of the design, if we want Edinburgh to remain as a world-class city, some parts desperately need mordenised (including that bloody awful car-park)and... it desperately needs more hotel space.
I was in Scotland at the weekend and the only room available was the King James at 395 GBP for one night! The nearest I could get, even with Travelodge or Travel Inn was in Livingstone.
56

Buttress,

26/05/2009 14:37:22
But what isn't required is any old development, simply because it will be more profitable for the site owner and the architect.

Bad development bad, good development good.
57

Scotselkie,

Endwell 26/05/2009 15:19:06
I'm not aware of where this new monstrosity will be built, but I'd like to comment on two buildings I just saw for the first time on a trip to Scotland over Easter (I'm from upstate NY).

One was the Scottish Parliament - I don't think I need to say anything about that eyesore.

The other was a building going up ON THE ROYAL MILE. It was part way up on the left side and it was glass and wood and not a "historic" element to be seen. Who gave approval for that? It destroys the atmosphere that has been such a part of that historic street.

I know some are for progress and new buildings do have their place, but to put those two where they are just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm all for progress, but historic value is huge and can't be replaced.

There is a hotel on the Mile that was all redone (a while ago now) and you can't really tell from the street that it's all modern and new behind the facade.

I was very sad to see the beautiful old historic sites being replaced with modern architecture. Just totally detracts from the experience. I hope it doesn't continue, because Edinburgh will lose out on what makes it such a special place to visit.
58

Buttress,

26/05/2009 15:22:03
Ah - that would be the Allan Murray Hotel Missoni, and indeed another Edinburgh eyesore!

There are more to come from him, to add to those already built and being built (Omni, Cube, etc)

To come SoCo, St James' Centre
59

Buttress,

26/05/2009 15:23:35
Although the Hotel Missoni was built on the site of another modern(ish) building, but it was Grade A listed yet allowed to be demolished, as the council is useless.
60

David55,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 15:35:22
17 Storeys is a bit much. If the developer is proposing that tall a building it should be located beside buildings of a similar height. I'm not quite sure where that is? London?

Possibly down at the Harbour development, which will possibly be more appealing to developers if the tram ever makes it's way down there.
61

Kitti Kat,

Newtown Square 26/05/2009 15:35:36
Most visitors and tourists come toEdinburgh BECAUSE of her wonderful and (mostly) lovely older buildings. That guy has what we call "brall balls" to think that his stuff is so great that "to hell with history, views, etc". Can't your politicians and perhaps Visit Scotland, etc. do something to stop the awful stuff that is going up in Edinburgh? I don't have an opinion about Prince Charles but when he remarked on the buildings going up , he was right. The architects are upset but what he says is maily true. And I've seen that dreadful Missoni and would not spend one "red nickle" (another Yank term) on a room there. Give me the good old Caledonian, Scotsman or even the Carleton and some of the Princes St. places rather than some modern, no character room. I was in Edinburgh last week and shudder at what is going on with the building. At least the Apex Waterloo retained the integrity of the building. Next time I will get a room there to see how it fares inside.
62

Kitti Kat,

Newtown Square 26/05/2009 15:37:20
correction : it should be "brass balls" not brall". sorry--the carpal tunel in my hands really causes typos.
63

Kitti Kat,

Newtown Square 26/05/2009 15:38:55
yes, I know that the Missoni is not around these days.
64

kharman,

mumbai 26/05/2009 15:41:33
A sad aspect of these blog sites is the opportunity to vent personal abuse. Those inclined that way, please look at Richard Murphy's website and see the worth of his vision. He is a leading Scots architect and generally should be supported but that does not give him license to do anything he wants. From 5,000 miles away I can't get a sense of the skyline issue from the sketches but what I do see is quite interesting design, with connections I would say to recent design further up Morrison Street and the other railway sidings developments. It does seem to have some interesting features. If it goes through, watch how the declining Dalry Road benefits. My question for Richard Murphy is why he has not talked with local people (if true) as this is an essential part of such a significant development that affects so many. Also, Richard, your website attests to your 'careful contextual response'. It is no longer considered 'careful' in the 'context' of global ecological concerns to provide a 'response' that includes high rise when high rise is unnecessarily misusing resources and creating a legacy of problems for the future. Where is your concern for biodiversity in this development? Where is the effort to minimise electrical consumption, necessary in high rise? If you were told 'build a hotel so much above the skyline', that would explain both the answers to such questions and your apparent divergence from the norms of your practice. If you win it will not be the end of the world as this is a better design than many that are seen in Edinburgh, but if you are sent back to the drawing board, start talking to the local people about lower rise. You will surely get a good outcome in the end.
65

David55,

26/05/2009 15:43:06
#62 - I don't think the Missoni Hotel looks that bad in comparison to what was there before. I'm shocked that the previous building was listed. The previous building was one of the ugliest things i've ever seen. I agree that the Missioni Hotel is not particularly inkeeping with the building on the High Street, but neither was the building that is now demolished.
66

David55,

26/05/2009 16:04:00
http://www.richardmurphyarchitects.com/projects/434/

Does the 17 storey building just look like the 12/14 storey one, but taller?

The sketches on the Richard Murphy Architects website appears to have 12 floors of guest rooms, a double height lobby/restaurant area and I assume some plant space on the roof.

All in all, the sketches don't look any worse than some of the other buildings that have went up in the centre in recent years.
67

Buttress,

26/05/2009 16:04:59
64 wait until you see what is planned as a Premier Inn in Princes Street. The council has passed that.

67 Oh, I don't know. Mr M isn't above a bit of abuse in the press, is he? See articles in Building Design for a start.

He has little sensitivity for anyone's opinion if it differs from his, yet people have to live with what he designs. I don't think his new neighbours in Hart Street will welcome him to their homes, and this one is a bad building for where it is planned, and will adversely affect the WHS, for which he seems to care little. He really knows that I'm sure, it's just he thinks he's so important that he is digging in his heels. He wants to be ground breaking, and pave the way for other developers to build high. And he's being paid.

He really is very blinkered, I think, and no, refused to discuss with those who have to live next to it in the local community.

See also the Cockburn Association website for more, and do read the doc I posted the link to as to why this was called in.

68

Buttress,

26/05/2009 16:07:02
69 - very misleading.

See also http://www.cockburnassociation.org.uk/default.asp?page=152

68 - previous building by famous architect.
69

David55,

26/05/2009 16:19:59
#71 - I've just checked and the 17 storeys detailed on the planning application does look like the drawing on the architects website. The hotel is approx. 54 metres high.

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Drawing-576477.pdf;jsessionid=9224155D1E7C96D963157CEA39758C68?extension=.pdf&wmTransparency=0&id=576477&wmLocation=0&location=VOLUME1&contentType=application%2Fpdf&wmName=&pageCount=1
70

Buttress,

26/05/2009 16:24:30
You really need to look at the local context:-

http://www.cockburnassociation.org.uk/default.asp?page=152

It's not totally comprehensive but will give some idea.

71

KTK...,

Tampa Bay,FL 26/05/2009 16:32:54
#9,#41..Spot on ..you've got it.
72

Buttress,

26/05/2009 16:39:45
Shame you haven't then...
73

Elephant,

Linlithgow 26/05/2009 16:43:03
Hey Edinburgh folk, just hush up and be glad it's a modest height, uninspiring, inoffensive building. You could've ended up with one of these which are springing up down south everywhere: http://www.beethamtower.org/
74

Buttress,

26/05/2009 16:47:02
Yes, but it's not inoffensive, and pictures showing its supposed height are very misleading.
75

Buttress,

26/05/2009 17:01:32
However, why have university master's students been exposed to this inaccurate cr*p? I wonder if they realise how much they have been manipulated into following one man's obsession.

"The unit confronted the idea that in order for you to respect the built heritage of Edinburgh and the UNESCO World Heritage accreditation you must build new replicas of old buildings"

http://www2.rgu.ac.uk/sss/edinburgh/background.html

Whose idea? Alan Dunlop's? No wonder Edinburgh is such a mess, if this is what they teach students.






76

thedaftedinburghstudents,

www.towardsanewedinburgh.co.uk 26/05/2009 17:33:48
As studio professor, Alan chose the location of Edinburgh's UNESCO old town boundaries, however he did not dictate the nature of the individual projects nor the scope of the group manifesto.

With regard to the 'innacurate cr*p' comment...
We [as a unit of 18 daft students] felt that Edinburgh does not display the quality of progressive modern architecture, worthy of its location within Scotland's capital city. Edinburgh's 'enlightened' attitude of the past [the new town, waverley, south bridge, the list is long] has been lost in favour of a preservation attitude, creating a Scottish Disneyland.

PS Thanks for the plug ;)

www.towardsanewedinburgh.co.uk
77

Buttress,

26/05/2009 17:51:18
The plug - well, people might be able to read for themselves how obsessed Mr Dunlop is. He's the man who doesn't belive buildings should be listed, and who wrote this laughable piece in AJ:-

Opinion Piece: AJ November 2007 by Alan Dunlop
World Heritage Organisations

"Embracing the past; Enhancing the future" is the tag line of Edinburgh World Heritage Trust. A more honest description would be "Embracing the past, Endangering the future."

According to the charter of EWH, their purpose is "to enhance the outstanding universal values" of Edinburgh as a World Heritage Site. This means that any building proposed within the site, that includes all of the old town and much of the new, faces additional challenge. EWH has no statutory power but the support of Historic Scotland, which does. Although it is part funded by City of Edinburgh Council, it is the city's planning department that is the target of their letter writing. Usually, projects the EWH don't like will cost Edinburgh its World Heritage Status.

Like most quasi governmental organisations who "champion" the public cause, EWHT are unelected and its board made up of accountants, consultants, retired planners and conservationists.

There is talk of Glasgow too applying for its World Heritage badge and this would be unfortunate, as the city supports much sound contemporary architecture.

In Bath, a new development proposal by Feilden Clegg Bradley Studios has incurred the wrath of ICOMOS UK, a local chapter of the International Council on Monuments and Sites, yet another unelected heritage body attached to UNESCO.

ICOMOS objects to 2,200 much needed new houses with shops and restaurants on a brownfield site now occupied by redundant gasholders. The architects have an international reputation for well crafted contemporary architecture on sensitive sites. Nonetheless ICOMOS suggest that if their proposal is given planning permission it will cost Bath its World Heritage Status. Where have we read
78

Buttress,

26/05/2009 17:59:18
that before?

Who are these people?

ICOMOS is a "forum for 7,000 conservation professionals which promotes the conservation of our cultural heritage." Its UK members include archaeologists; conservation architects and national trust members. Like Edinburgh World Heritage Trust, it has no legal powers but is supported by English Heritage.

What is extraordinary is that such self selected groups are permitted to quality assure our built environment in the face of statutory, democratic and architectural principles.

By focusing only on the need to protect heritage and seeming to disregard all else, these organisations inhibit the proper functioning of the planning process. Moreover their drive to preserve particular buildings or city areas in aspic is insular, self seeking and regressive.

Cities are living organisms. They need to change and to adapt to different times. It is inherently dangerous to gift their development to small coteries who aim to restrict their growth to the shape of the past.

Alan Dunlop

19 Nov 2007

Simplistic really, ill-conceived and ill-informed.

And new build in historic sites, respecting what is there, is something which doesn't have to be 'Disneyland', but then I doubt that the students were given the full picture.


79

Buttress,

26/05/2009 18:12:52
And again, I point to the Vienna Memorandum:-

http://whc.unesco.org/uploads/activities/documents/activity-47-2.pdf

80

Buttress,

26/05/2009 19:02:15
*Edinburgh's 'enlightened' attitude of the past [the new town, waverley, south bridge, the list is long] has been lost in favour of a preservation attitude, creating a Scottish Disneyland.*

Quite funny really, as based in many respects on historic forms and decoration!

So Edinburgh architects have always looked to the past. Those weren't exactly cutting edge.
81

Busybees,

Dalry 26/05/2009 19:25:55
Ok, so I live in the Dalry Colonies and I attended the enquiry today. What would you like to know about demographics of people opposing the site?

I don't live in an identikit tenement and the skyline ofr Haymarket is hardly dull - why should they get to block our views of St. Marys? And no-one is forcing anyone to build up-plenty of city's have buildings over railway tunnels. It's a financial decision, so he gets his johnson extension and we all have to live with it because the developers want an easy win.
82

Busybees,

Dalry 26/05/2009 19:27:58
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6361272.ece
83

Busybees,

26/05/2009 19:31:14
And the UNESCO mission report from when they came to visit us last year - and discuss Haymarket - says "There is a need for a declared buffer zone...particularly in view of the apparent failure of the current planning mechanisms to deter proposals such as the 17 storey Haymarket hotel in the area immediately adjacent to the World Heritage property".
84

Buttress,

26/05/2009 19:37:10
Yes, I read that:-

"A leading architect yesterday condemned Edinburgh’s modern buildings as “unspeakably ugly, sad imitations of our heritage” at a public inquiry into his design for a capital hotel development.

At a hearing which encapsulated the bitter row between tradition and modernity in the capital, Richard Murphy said the city resisted anything “new or alien”, and failed to offer the same confidence to its contemporary architects as their predecessors."

Now I wonder which of his fellow architects who have built in the city in say, the past ten years he was rubbishing?

And oh, if only some had the talents of certain architects of the past. Of course, I suspect that Mr Murphy, if he looked closely, would see that so many historic buildings in Edinburgh are based on historic architecture of previous civilisations.

85

Busybees,

26/05/2009 19:38:24
I think he was rubbishing them all, not just those from 10 years ago. Even the Balmoral got a bit of abuse.
86

Buttress,

26/05/2009 19:39:44
86 ;-) Oh, well, UNESCO, what can they know? There are many who would get rid of World Heritage Status as holding us back... back from what I leave you to decide.

87

Busybees,

Dalry 26/05/2009 20:18:51
Seems they understand our planning process quite well.
And I listened to Mr Williamson today who described World Heritage Status as a tourist accessory. I wonder if the Gold Brothers sell it?
88

Dougie - Edinburgh,

26/05/2009 20:24:41
Another step on the road to drowning Edinburgh's unique and beautiful architecture under post modern monstrosities. Such buildings better belong in cities like Birmingham with nothing to lose. Future generations will regard this kind of egotistical pomposity with the same derision that we have for 1960s office blocks, built with the same arrogant contempt for heritage and the same hollow slogans about modernity and progress.
89

Buttress,

26/05/2009 20:25:45
Hmmmm. How odd. I thought it rather more than that. I thought it represented some high ideal about the brotherhood of man, and the places we have come to value across the globe, and their Outstanding Universal Value.
90

Buttress,

26/05/2009 20:29:44
Indeed, UNESCO itself sees WH status as a little more than a mere tourist accessory:

World Heritage

Heritage is our legacy from the past, what we live with today, and what we pass on to future generations. Our cultural and natural heritage are both irreplaceable sources of life and inspiration. Places as unique and diverse as the wilds of East Africa’s Serengeti, the Pyramids of Egypt, the Great Barrier Reef in Australia and the Baroque cathedrals of Latin America make up our world’s heritage.

What makes the concept of World Heritage exceptional is its universal application. World Heritage sites belong to all the peoples of the world, irrespective of the territory on which they are located.

The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) seeks to encourage the identification, protection and preservation of cultural and natural heritage around the world considered to be of outstanding value to humanity. This is embodied in an international treaty called the Convention concerning the Protection of the World Cultural and Natural Heritage, adopted by UNESCO in 1972.

UNESCO's World Heritage mission is to:

encourage countries to sign the World Heritage Convention and to ensure the protection of their natural and cultural heritage;
encourage States Parties to the Convention to nominate sites within their national territory for inclusion on the World Heritage List;
encourage States Parties to establish management plans and set up reporting systems on the state of conservation of their World Heritage sites;
help States Parties safeguard World Heritage properties by providing technical assistance and professional training;
provide emergency assistance for World Heritage sites in immediate danger;
support States Parties' public awareness-building activities for World Heritage conservation;
encourage participation of the local population in the preservation of their cultural and natural heritage;
encourage internati
91

Buttress,

26/05/2009 20:31:18
cont
international cooperation in the conservation of our world's cultural and natural heritage.

http://whc.unesco.org/en/about/
92

Busybees,

26/05/2009 20:35:02
As you say, what do they know, eh?

There was also some criticism of groups who use UNESCO for leverage against unfavourable planning developments. The Cockburn Assoc QC did a very good job of getting Mr Williamson to agree it was no difference to the way developers can use media and glossy photos and spin to promote their scheme. I think we are still a democratic country after all.
93

Busybees,

Dalry 26/05/2009 20:36:28
I think he said he thought WHS might be better applied to sites in danger rather than those who are "safe". Perhaps he doesn't know our planning process after all.

All very enlightening though.
94

Buttress,

26/05/2009 20:42:20
I suspect that he has no idea about what world heritage is about then, and the fact we are signed up as stste parties and fully committed to it!

So no it's not an add on to the planning process we can ignore really. We are committed, as a nation, to the ideals and the reality.

95

Buttress,

26/05/2009 20:45:40
Article 4
Each State Party to this Convention recognizes that the duty of ensuring the identification, protection, conservation, presentation and transmission to future generations of the cultural and natural heritage referred to in Articles 1 and 2 and situated on its territory, belongs primarily to that State. It will do all it can to this end, to the utmost of its own resources and, where appropriate, with any international assistance and co-operation, in particular, financial, artistic, scientific and technical, which it may be able to obtain.

Article 5
To ensure that effective and active measures are taken for the protection, conservation and presentation of the cultural and natural heritage situated on its territory, each State Party to this Convention shall endeavor, in so far as possible, and as appropriate for each country:

to adopt a general policy which aims to give the cultural and natural heritage a function in the life of the community and to integrate the protection of that heritage into comprehensive planning programmes;
to set up within its territories, where such services do not exist, one or more services for the protection, conservation and presentation of the cultural and natural heritage with an appropriate staff and possessing the means to discharge their functions;
to develop scientific and technical studies and research and to work out such operating methods as will make the State capable of counteracting the dangers that threaten its cultural or natural heritage;
to take the appropriate legal, scientific, technical, administrative and financial measures necessary for the identification, protection, conservation, presentation and rehabilitation of this heritage; and
to foster the establishment or development of national or regional centres for training in the protection, conservation and presentation of the cultural and natural heritage and to encourage scientific research in this field.
96

Buttress,

26/05/2009 20:47:18
Article 6
Whilst fully respecting the sovereignty of the States on whose territory the cultural and natural heritage mentioned in Articles 1 and 2 is situated, and without prejudice to property right provided by national legislation, the States Parties to this Convention recognize that such heritage constitutes a world heritage for whose protection it is the duty of the international community as a whole to co-operate.
The States Parties undertake, in accordance with the provisions of this Convention, to give their help in the identification, protection, conservation and presentation of the cultural and natural heritage referred to in paragraphs 2 and 4 of Article 11 if the States on whose territory it is situated so request.
Each State Party to this Convention undertakes not to take any deliberate measures which might damage directly or indirectly the cultural and natural heritage referred to in Articles 1 and 2 situated on the territory of other States Parties to this Convention.

Article 7
For the purpose of this Convention, international protection of the world cultural and natural heritage shall be understood to mean the establishment of a system of international co-operation and assistance designed to support States Parties to the Convention in their efforts to conserve and identify that heritage.

http://whc.unesco.org/?cid=175

97

Buttress,

26/05/2009 20:54:57
I add, we as a nation put forward possible World Heritage Sites for consideration. It's not imposed from above. We are willing parties to inscription.
98

Buttress,

26/05/2009 20:59:37
The inclusion of a property in the World Heritage List requires the consent of the State concerned.

The Committee shall establish, keep up to date and publish, whenever circumstances shall so require, under the title of "List of World Heritage in Danger", a list of the property appearing in the World Heritage List for the conservation of which major operations are necessary and for which assistance has been requested under this Convention. This list shall contain an estimate of the cost of such operations. The list may include only such property forming part of the cultural and natural heritage as is threatened by serious and specific dangers, such as the threat of disappearance caused by accelerated deterioration, large- scale public or private projects or rapid urban or tourist development projects; destruction caused by changes in the use or ownership of the land; major alterations due to unknown causes; abandonment for any reason whatsoever; the outbreak or the threat of an armed conflict; calamities and cataclysms; serious fires, earthquakes, landslides; volcanic eruptions; changes in water level, floods and tidal waves.

The Committee may at any time, in case of urgent need, make a new entry in the List of World Heritage in Danger and publicize such entry immediately.
The Committee shall define the criteria on the basis of which a property belonging to the cultural or natural heritage may be included in either of the lists mentioned in paragraphs 2 and 4 of this article.
99

Column,

Edinburgh 26/05/2009 21:19:36
Buttress......do you have a job?
100

Seb,

26/05/2009 21:47:17
Not convinced that the Lothian Region Council building on George IV Bridge was ever Listed... but I'm sure you'll provide a link to proof if it was Buttress?
101

Buttress,

26/05/2009 21:50:12
Is that any business of yours? No, it isn't.

However, just in case anyone else appearing as a witness at the inquiry is reading this who knows noting about world heritage, I susggest that some research would be useful.
102

Pilrig,

Livingston 26/05/2009 21:59:13
41 - a yuppie writes
103

Buttress,

26/05/2009 21:59:51
Robert Matthew and listed I believe:-

http://www.blitzandblight.com/lothian-regional-council-hq


"Historic Scotland would have preferred a development that reused the office block; it is, the group argued, Grade A-listed and by an eminent architect of its era."


http://www.edinburgharchitecture.co.uk/lothian_regional_council_HQ.htm

104

Pilrig,

Livingston 26/05/2009 22:01:27
48 - ChrislovesStJamesCentre !
105

Buttress,

26/05/2009 22:06:09
"The Committee will also review the state of conservation of the 30 World Heritage properties inscribed on the List of World Heritage in Danger and may decide to add to that list new properties whose preservation requires special attention. The List in Danger features sites which are threatened by a variety of problems such as pollution, urban development, poorly managed mass tourism, wars, and natural disasters, which have a negative impact on the outstanding values for which the sites were inscribed on the World Heritage List.

One of the properties on the List in Danger, the cultural landscape of Germany's Dresden Elbe Valley, will come under particular scrutiny as the Committee will decide whether to remove the property from the World Heritage List because of the building of a bridge in the heart of the landscape."

http://whc.unesco.org/en/news/509

106

Buttress,

26/05/2009 22:07:41
And as for Alan Dunlop:-

"The World Heritage Committee, responsible for the implementation of the 1972 Convention, comprises representatives of 21 countries, elected by the States Parties for up to six years. Each year, the Committee adds new sites to the List. The sites are proposed by the States Parties. Applications are then reviewed by two advisory bodies: cultural sites by the International Council on Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS), and natural sites by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN), which inform the Committee of their recommendations."
107

Seb,

26/05/2009 22:21:50
Butress, I'm shocked at you relying on the Evening News and Adrian Welsh for facts!!

The LRC Building wasn't listed but it was attached to an A listed building which remains (Brodie's Close I think).

It's a shame, Matthew's building was a belter even if it wasn't popular.
108

Buttress,

26/05/2009 22:29:19
Well, a number of sources still cite it as listed, but it wasn't in reality. I'm not really very concerned. I was not fond of it, I thought it rather too dominating in its context. Better than the latest though.

No, I don't rely on Welsh for facts, just amusement, thought I would point you in that direction...
109

Fitba Krazy,

26/05/2009 22:34:39
At this rate Edinburgh will catch up with Glasgow no bother for the Scam city of the year award.

This goes to the designer of the biggest pile of coo-dung who explains it away as an iconic building fit for 21st century Scotland and a the heid the ba's that believe it.

There is a lot of litter in Glasgow BTW. Strange that when you hear the codswallop the cooncil dummies come away with. Edinburgh:- be warned.
110

Buttress,

26/05/2009 22:35:32
Peter Marsden's DCMS report to UNESCO on the State of Conservation of the WHS Feb 2008:-

7. Former Lothian Regional Council building on the High Street/ George IV BridgeThe site at 59-63 George IV Bridge occupies a prominent corner in the Old Town Conservation Area and WHS. The majority of the site faces George IV Bridge, an early 19thCentury ‘improvement’ street, with elevations facing the Lawnmarket, one of Edinburgh’s most historic spaces, and Victoria Street, a mid-19thCentury ‘improvement’ street of some charm. The existing building, now demolished, was designed in 1967 by Sir Robert Matthew as an administration block for the Council and an extension to the c1900 classical Midlothian building, now Edinburgh’s Registry Office, opposite. Its construction involved the demolition of Melbourne Place, a development dating from 1837 incorporating earlier fabric. Matthew’s building was six storeys high with additional basement accommodation, designed with a strong horizontality within the largely vertical context of the Old Town. It had a pre-cast and in-situ cast concrete frame and was faced with stone panels and timber windows in horizontal bands pierced by lift towers. The majority of the ground floor frontage was blank masonry walling. The building was a work by an eminent architect, and represented a modernist contextual approach to a historic city site, but was not considered worthy of listing. In July 2005 a scheme was submitted which involved the demolition of the existing buildings and the erection of a mixed-use scheme of similar size and dimensions. Revisions followed. The Council considered that the Matthew building detracted from the character and appearance of the conservation area and the World Heritage Site, and that the new scheme represented an opportunity to create a more appropriate building of the highest architectural standard. After detailed consideration by Historic Scotland in May 2006 the application was cleared by Scottish Ministers back
111

Buttress,

26/05/2009 22:36:11
After detailed consideration by Historic Scotland in May 2006 the application was cleared by Scottish Ministers back to the planning authority for approval

(Another to be read with caution)

112

Seb,

26/05/2009 22:41:30
Another post-war building you don't like... sigh.
113

Buttress,

26/05/2009 22:45:55
It wasn't that great in reality. But I could see where he was coming from.

Which is more than can be said for Murray.

Plenty of post war buildings I like, shame few of them are in Embra. Apart from the pool.

114

Seb,

26/05/2009 22:50:52
I'm thrilled! What about any buildings in Edinburgh by a living architect, like any of them?
115

Buttress,

26/05/2009 22:53:21
And BHS, actually...
116

Buttress,

26/05/2009 22:55:47
No, I'm not giving my stamp of approval. I did sort of like the Storytelling Centre in part,when it was new, but I have cooled after long hard looks at it.



117

Seb,

26/05/2009 22:56:55
Heavens above! That's only because Herb liked it though.
118

Buttress,

26/05/2009 22:58:29
What, BHS or the Storytelling Centre?
119

Buttress,

26/05/2009 23:01:31
This is one of my favourites, but not in Edinburgh:-

http://www.c20society.org.uk/docs/building/killingworth.html

New book on them is excellent (RIBA)
120

Rap,

26/05/2009 23:18:22
Oh my, busy article. Competing with trams for the number of posts. Excellent, that's what I want to see.

Killingworth looks like it should be on a Pink Floyd album cover Buttress :)
121

Rap,

26/05/2009 23:20:47
Luddites appears to be the abuse of the day, interesting since this isn't an inquiry into technology. Not sure concrete cladding is that advanced really. Or pretty while I think of it.
122

Buttress,

26/05/2009 23:25:57
Oh, concrete can be beautiful. And historically interesting.



123

Rap,

26/05/2009 23:28:21
Not when it comes in screw on panels because they are cheap.
124

Buttress,

26/05/2009 23:34:07
Ah, that's certainly not the same!
125

Buttress,

27/05/2009 00:01:49
Today's report:-

http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Heritage-body-hits-out-over.5304417.jp

126

Bigwull,

edinburgh 28/05/2009 08:15:10
I personally couldn't care less, it'll employ more people than a parking lot anyway thats for sure.
Concrete isn't a modern material, the Romans used it extensively
127

Buttress,

28/05/2009 20:33:06
Yes, but it was arather different in composition.
128

Crank Parent,

Livingston 28/05/2009 20:34:21
"Barbara Thom, planning convener of the West End Community Council, said: "With regard to the design of the tower block, residents cannot understand the frequent reference to a 'leaf shape' in support of its architectural merit. The tower footprint can only be appreciated as such from the air and has no significance for the man in the street."

Nice quote, shame they got the Planning Convenor's name wrong.

 

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