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Teachers slam 'ridiculous' oath of allegiance plan for children



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CALLS for schoolchildren to swear oaths of allegiance in iconic buildings such as Edinburgh Castle were today branded "ridiculous" by teachers.
Former Attorney General Lord Goldsmith said youngsters should swear an oath in a bid to tackle a "diminution in national pride".

But the proposals have been strongly criticised.

Eleanor Coner, information officer with the Scottish Parent Teache
r Council, said: "It's a ridiculous idea just to grab headlines. It's the way we behave in our everyday lives that makes us good citizens, not swearing allegiance.

"Quite frankly, it will have no impact on children at all."

Tina Woolnough, founder of the pressure group Parents in Partnership, said: "Swearing an oath brings into play so many other things and we shouldn't be asking children and young people to swear oaths to anything.

"It's far more important to encourage young people to have a sense of community and have a sense of belonging, but the way to do that is not by words, it's by involving them and giving them a sense of responsibility."

A preliminary report published in October as part of Lord Goldsmith's review said that schoolchildren should take part in the ceremonies for foreigners taking British nationality.

The author of the report recommended staging the ceremonies at iconic buildings such as the Castle, Tate Britain and the National Gallery.





The full article contains 229 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 March 2008 1:24 PM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Edinburgh Castle
 
1

Bob Christie,

11/03/2008 09:59:34
Is this a wind-up? It's not quite April 1st yet!

Absolutely NO way.

There is NO such thing as Britishness. It does NOT exist. It is a figment of unionists' imagination.

Personnally, I would go to jail first than swear an oath to ANY person, let alone a sponging, parasitic Windsor.
2

yockel,

11/03/2008 10:07:10
A postmodernist oath will presumably be subject to deconstruction and capable of meaning anything you want it to mean at any particular point in time just like Wendy's defence.
If it wasn't for that one would have to say, what a lot of twaddle.
"new government" is that an evolution of Nulabour or just the dross that's left over?
3

anakin,

anywhere west ofthe Hootsmon 11/03/2008 10:18:48
This from the guy who re-wrote the meaning of the phrase "crossing the Rubicon". This is the guy who will go down in history for his advice that to go to war with Sadam was legal. Historians already classify his/the cabinet meeting following his visit to the USA as up there with the cabinet meeting before the invasion of Suez.

That he was not convinced it was legal before he left for America and was then "convinced" that it was legal when he came back from his meeting with the neo fascists of the Bush administration is the reason why the world is in the state it is in today.

There is NOTHING to believe from this guy EVER again.

He should resign in disgrace.
4

AJ Fife,

11/03/2008 10:18:57
They can shove Britishness right up their......
5

Crank Parent,

Livingston 11/03/2008 10:28:17
I can see home education becoming a more popular choice. :-)
6

Nikostratos,

11/03/2008 11:02:30
Alex swore allegiance to the Queen without a murmur.......And took all the bauble's that went with it.
A proper British patriot our Alex..dont you agree
7

Dibs,

11/03/2008 11:15:55
"perhaps with a rendition by children of the song We Are The World".

This has to be a joke - an early April fool maybe?
8

ptdoug,

11/03/2008 11:22:56
In Scotland, The People are sovereign.

End of Story.
9

Reckless,

Corrupt EU 11/03/2008 11:27:22
It's just a shame that HM the Queen has broken her Coronation oath to the British people. Why should we swear an oath of allegiance to a traitor?

http://www.eutruth.org.uk/traitors.html
10

Nikostratos,

11/03/2008 11:27:32
#7

This is no joke i heard on radio 4..........Apparently if you don't say your oath you won't get an identity card.........And you are not allowed to call yourself British only Scottish or Welsh or etc........

Now Alex took the oath and is a fully paid up british subject of the queen...................and he gets in free at the last night of the proms...........lucky old so and so...........
11

Reckless,

Republic of Great Britain 11/03/2008 11:28:07
We need to become a republic.
12

Nikostratos,

11/03/2008 11:30:19
#11

the tower for you..............................
13

IainGlasgow,

11/03/2008 11:41:39
So what will happen if the school leavers simply refuse to do so? Will their Highers grades be rendered void or something?
14

subrosa,

11/03/2008 11:50:24
I'll stick to being Scottish and a non-entity :)
15

talk107,

11/03/2008 12:15:15
swear allegiance to the Queen - NO
swear allegiance to our Country - HELL YEAH!!!!

When I was 3 yrs old my family emigrated to Brisbane and I attended primary school in a very nice place to be brought up and after a couple of years of high shchool we came back to Edinburgh:

In the 1970s we would stand on parade in the morning with the school band of fife's and drums playing god save the queen as the head master hoisted the Aussie flag up the flag pole and I remember god save the queen being played via big speakers in the classrooms sometimes (maybe in bad weather) as we stood by our tables.....

...now Australia being part of the commonwealth, you could understand it....and with Australia's 'white australia policy of increasing their population numbers with whtie europeans (preferably) that would assimilate into australian society...you could understand that it made sense to brainwash the kids young....especially the immigrants.

As time is moving on, they don't do that anymore and the younger generations are more anti-commonwealth (its about 50/50 now), as time moves on, Australia move a lot closer to the USA - New Zealand is probably a lot more like Scotland and is not as yankee-fied - which a lot of people I've spoken to prefer.

So, on the positive side - Australia is a very patriotic country that still embraces other cultures very well, they cultivate a 'don't let your team down' attitude and a love it or leave it feeling within THEIR country. Good on ya, mate!

On the down side to all this, is that you could move to Australia and be there for decades and will NEVER EVER be counted as an Australian (you might even be a pome b*stard)- they can be so insular and among the most racsist, ignorant people on the planet.

I like the lack of class structure in australia, on reflection its one of my favourite things about Oz and I don't want british citizens to be putting jihad-based mission statements before their country..... so Australia gets 2 thim
16

talk107,

11/03/2008 12:16:08
I like the lack of class structure in australia, on reflection its one of my favourite things about Oz and I don't want british citizens to be putting jihad-based mission statements before their country..... so Australia gets 2 thumbs up from me, although I prefer living in Edinburgh.

...BUT the ethos behind the magnacarta being created was to let the people know that King and Queen DO NOT transcend the country's rule book. That basic sentiment is spot on and although in our legal systems The Queen is technically the highest authority in the land I think we should swear allegiance to our Country NOT our Queen.
17

Resolutions,

11/03/2008 12:22:13
Leaving family ties out of it, The 'Queen' is actually a figurehead and by swearing allegiance to the figurehead that means your country.

Now this figurehead is actually Queen in rather a lot of countries so presumeably it means your 'country' - in my case Scotland.

Now if it was to the flag - it would have to be blue and white, but basically it is a bit of a daft idea in the present climate.
18

Resolutions,

11/03/2008 12:23:33
#16 Magna Carta had nothing to do with Scotland!!!

But the Declaration of Arbroath did!!!
19

Indyforall,

11/03/2008 12:39:09
We should never agree to adopt a Britain day or to swear allegiance to the Monarch of another country that has dominated our land for too long. The road to independence still has some way to go but it is on the horizon and we should not be forced to swear or adopt allegiance to a foreign state.

Lets be good neighbours, but no more.

By the way, is'nt she German by descent....
20

Epicuras,

11/03/2008 12:42:49
never! politicians are rightly held in total contempt in the UK (and more so in Scotland), 'Lord' (a bauble handed out by a war criminal doesn't really gain much respect pal) Goldsmith was just a pal of blair's who lied to take us into an illegal war so blair could line his pockets with american money onvce he left office, and the queen - don't make me laff - nothing worth swearing allegiance to - just another load of new labour crap!
21

,

11/03/2008 12:50:10
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

,

11/03/2008 12:58:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
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23

Talorthane,

11/03/2008 13:27:42
Desperate times require desperate measures.

How many more people in Kirkcaldy will now reject Gordon Brown at the next election?

Gordon Brown's idea of representative government and democracy is that those in power, once they are in power, redefine who is able to vote.

Is this his latest plan to defeat the SNP?

1) introduce oaths of allegience to the Crown and the British State.

2) only those who take the oath are issuied identity cards.

3) Entitlement to vote is then dependent on possesion of an identity card.

4) No SNP votes.
24

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 13:39:11
As expected, major disagreement on this thread with this idea. Funnily enough I bet your average corner supermarket owner would love it.
25

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 11/03/2008 13:47:24
What a totally daft, not to mention unworkable idea. In fact, I would go as far as to say that this is a fascist, illegal idea that is against our human rights.

If Radio 4 are correctly reporting that we will not get an ID Card UNLESS we swear - then once ID Cards are made compulsory (and we all know THAT will come) - then the swearing of allegiance will also be compulsory.

Do we not live in a free country?
Do we not have the right to free speech?
Or even silence? (Even murderers have that right)
Are non-swearers to be deported?
Are non-swearers to be jailed?

Thank goodness Scotland will soon be leaving this union!!

There is a small but significant republican minority. I am not one but would support and assist them in their right to hold and argue a democratic principal. I would march, blog, write to the press and give to any fund to pay for the legal defence of non-swearing "criminals" at the European Court of Human Rights –
a fight they would undoubtedly win.
26

Talorthane,

11/03/2008 13:49:37
What is the Labour Party's position on the monarchy?
27

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 11/03/2008 13:54:51
This gives me the creeps...besides...do school children really know or care what an 'oath' is?...many people swear oaths and then welch on them....very very old fashioned nonsense....
28

talk107,

11/03/2008 13:55:36
#26 well Gordon Brown looks like Columbo and Tony Blair looked like noddy so I would guess their opinion is that instead of playing celebirty/royal its a knockout - they should be acting out a murder mystery in trumpton.
29

Talorthane,

11/03/2008 14:04:41
#27 Doreen

I would imagine that as school children would not be legally competant then there can be no purpose to this process other than blatant brainwashing.

I would also imagine that this kind of approach may fall foul of the UN convention on Human Rights as well as the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.
30

talk107,

11/03/2008 14:04:46
18 Resolutions,

Very good point about the Declaration of Arbroath - I don't think anyone would dispute that it has played an influential role in the history of Scottish national identity and the creation of the common belief (whether based in legal reality or not) that in Scotland its the 'people' that are sovereign, rather than the monarch or parliament, as in England.
1320

BUT the Magna Carta is a symbol for the first time the citizens of England were granted rights against an absolute king...now this article is talking about The monarchy and swearing to them, not at them, so the Magna Carta (which was about 100 years before the Declaration of Arbroath) was the most significant early influence on the extensive historical process that led to the rule of constitutional law today.

Magna Carta influenced the development of the common law and many constitutional documents, such as the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights, and is considered one of the most important legal documents in the history of democracy.

So, for me, my point was valid too.
31

Doreen,

The Cyber Shebeen 11/03/2008 14:10:25
29...Aye...they can keep it for the Scouts or the Brownies....
32

Robert,

Kirriemuir 11/03/2008 14:14:49
To test the validity of this new idea it should first be applied to us Scots when like the poll tax (to which I subscribe) it will probably suffer a quick exit. It has been said that the three evils in this world are religion, snobbery, and partiotism.

#19 She is probably a Hienz!
33

Stone of Destiny,

Outside Scotland 11/03/2008 14:17:39
When you become a British citizen you can go to a ceremony and have a choice of swearing allegiance or making a more general statement. Most of you above who appear to have been born here forget this i.e. some who have 'earned' their citizenship probably appreciate it more.
Those who claim to be Scottish, please define what you mean. The Queen has Scottish roots if you look back far enough.
Scotland historically is probably the most 'mixed' tribally of the four 'nations' of the British isles having tribal roots stemming from Irish Celts (Scots), British Celts (Welsh), Anglo-Saxons (English), Picts, Scandinavian and Normans - not to mention more recent migrations. Therefore you could argue that they should count themselves as one of the most British!
34

stan102,

at home sooking a beer 11/03/2008 14:21:47
An oath of Allegiance from a man whose precious Labour Party LIED to the Queen, LIED to The Parliaments, LIED to the People's elected representatives and LIED to the people of this country over the WMD and has dragged us into another unwinnable war? Hypocritical don't you think?
35

An Beal Bacht,

11/03/2008 14:30:02
Swear an oath of allegiance to a cult of personality - no thanks. I'll swear an oath of allegiance to an independent Scottish Republic.
36

BigKennyMac,

11/03/2008 14:30:19
My children are used to all this already, as we drink the Loyal Toast on a Sunday at lunchtime, and always have had a big photo of Her Majesty on the wall in the living room.

To all you tartan types: You are British and always will be. Long to Reign Over Us....

GSTQ

Big Kenny Bluenose
37

Merouane,

Edinbrugh 11/03/2008 14:32:50
Rather than the castle, they should hold these ceremonies at that last great bastion of the Union, Ibrox park.
38

Talorthane,

Lennoxtown 11/03/2008 14:35:28
It is bizarre that Grodon Brown should even consider pursuing this matter, given the oath that he swore in 1988.

Gordon Brown was a signatory to the Scottish Claim of Right, which read:

"We, gathered as the Scottish Constitutional Convention, do hereby acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government best suited to their needs, and do hereby declare and pledge that in all our actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount."

Now, if he pursues this "oath of Britishness", he will not only be betraying his 1988 oath, but will be left with no moral authority over those who refuse the new oath.
39

Talorthane,

11/03/2008 14:37:20
It should be pointed out that not all Rangers fans are unionists.
40

Merouane,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 14:55:48
#39. Of course not, but Rangers are a Unionist club.
41

Bob10,

11/03/2008 14:57:09
Lord Goldsmith is obviously a man with few hobbies and much time on his hands!
42

ElmoGal,

11/03/2008 14:58:59
"diminution in national pride".????????? what national pride? I'm SCOTTISH NOT BRITISH
43

Resolutions,

11/03/2008 15:03:51
#30
And the Declaration of Arbroath played its role in the USA legal documents too, maybe even more so.

But - they have a written constitution

44

Nikostratos,

11/03/2008 15:20:22
Didn't all the snp msps freely swear the oath of allegiance.....well if it's good enough for Alex Salmond and the entire Clan of the snp 'Nationalist' party..Then it's good enough for me-
45

Talorthane,

11/03/2008 15:26:53
44 Nikostratus

I think you'll find that every SNP MSP made a point of identifying that their loyalty was with the people of Scotland in line with the sovereignty of the people.

Some also refused to swear allegience to the monarch.
46

Merouane,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 15:29:46
#44. Yes, I think you've made that point a few times now. If that's good enough for you, then congratulations. It's not, however, good enough for me. Mainly because I think the two situations are quite different.
47

Jimmy the Pie,

11/03/2008 15:52:14
Which particular sleaze scandal was Lord Goldsmith involved in??

Anyway I'll swear loyalty to Scotland and Scotland ONLY!
Both my kids just laughed when they heard of the great plan from Our Dear Leader.
48

Jimmy the Pie,

11/03/2008 16:09:00
#44 Nico

I'm sure all you residents of Carstairs will swear allegiance to whoever Comrade Broon tells you.
49

rabmataz,

11/03/2008 16:14:51
This is all pointless twaddle. We are born as subjects of the crown, we are not citizens (there is no constitution).We already eat royalist sh!te without knowing. Revolution now.
50

Eliza,

11/03/2008 16:26:10
I'll be leaving school in about 2months. If they were to tell me then I had to swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen and Britishness They'd be sorely dissapointed. I view myself as Scottish first, not British.I see no reason why I should swear allegiance to a Queen and a government which I disagree with far more than I agree. This is just one more step down the road from democracy, this, then ID cards. I'll be telling them to get lost now, rather than realise later it was a bad idea.
51

,

11/03/2008 16:49:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
52

Skinny3600,

11/03/2008 16:50:12
But yeah, if your like scottish or welsh then you shouldnt have to swear alleagance to england :D
53

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 16:51:26
It's a very American-sounding idea. I think people here would just giggle!
54

Merouane,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 17:23:13
#51. I think that's the point. Most folk in Scotland don't feel very British. I understand that it's a diminishing concept in other parts of these islands as well.
55

Fanling,

Guangdong 11/03/2008 17:35:07
#36 BigKennyMac

"... we drink the Loyal Toast on a Sunday at lunchtime, and always have had a big photo of Her Majesty on the wall in the living room."

Exactly what is a Loyal Toast? Do you get points for doing that? We always have a big photo of His Regal Highness, Prince Biglugs on the wall of the bathroom, that being a fitting place for a pan.

"To all you tartan types: You are British and always will be. Long to Reign Over Us...."

A touch dictatorial are you not? Who are these "tartan types" anyway? Nothing wrong in being Scottish, unless looking through "royal" blue sunglasses. "We" are "British" by an accident of history, and dinosaurs like you reside in the wrong country if all you can do is shamelessly slag off those who take pride in their roots. Were your roots planted somewhere not so distant from Scotland's western shores?

When I cross the border from Hong Kong to China and vice versa I have to fill in immigration forms that request my nationality. I state it matter-of-factly as Scottish, because that is what it is. Never once challenged. But people like you just don't get it.

As I swear oaths every day (not oaths of allegiance) I don't need the treacherous, loathsome Brown or any of his minions to tell me to swear an oath of allegiance to a puppet they are prepared to fawn over for personal gain.

56

Edward,

11/03/2008 17:38:28
This has nothing to do with the Queen as a person persay, but more to do with Gordon Brown getting all to be more British by swearin allegience to the Queen as head of State for the UK
Ive nothing against the queen and would be very happy to swear allegiance to Queen Elizabeth the first of Scotland and the the Citizens of Scotland
As for Browns back door attempt, he can stick it right up his own back passageway!
57

Nikostratos,

11/03/2008 17:54:07
#45 Talorthane,

they all took the oath of allegiance every last one of them...bar none



Under the terms of the Scotland Act 1998, Sections 84(1) and 84(2), a person who is returned as a member of the Scottish Parliament cannot take part in any proceedings until he or she has taken the oath of allegiance or made a solemn affirmation. While the Act allows members two months from the date of their election to take the oath it is anticipated that members will wish to do so as soon as possible
58

Nikostratos,

11/03/2008 17:58:21
#48 Jimmy the Pie,

Why would you stigmatise people who are unwell.........not nice not nice at all apology please
59

wolfette,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 18:01:25
I'm a pro-Scottish independence, pro-monarchy (yes, the two can co-exist), proud Scot, proud Brit.

Oath of Allegience?

NO NO NO!!!

We've always known Blair wanted to turn Britain into the 51st state of the US. Now it's clear Brown is just as hell-bent.

As a friend who fled from communist Russia (before the Wall came down) says "even the Communists didn't force children to swear oaths to the Party".

Police officers take an oath, Armed Forces take an oath - NO ONE ELSE IN THE UK NEEDS TO.


60

Talorthane,

11/03/2008 18:03:38
#57 Nikostratus

At last!

You make my point for me.

Several members on the SNP and other parties refused to swear an oath of allegience to the crown.

They were told they had to in order to fulfil their duties.

So they took the oath, under protest, while making it clear that they recognised the sovereignty of the people as being their over-riding loyalty.

So they were forced to do so in order to take part in Parliament. This is, in the eyes of everyone, a matter of compliance rather than conformity.


In any case, the solemn affirmation, ends with "according to the law." In Scotland the law is a higher authority than the monarchy. And the law can change if guided to do so by the people.
61

Talorthane,

11/03/2008 18:04:58
#60 correction

Should have read...

"So they took the solemn affirmation."
62

Gothic Rose,

11/03/2008 18:23:01
Tina Woolnough and Eleanor Conner says it as it is,or as it should be. Anything else is past its sell date!
63

Nikostratos,

11/03/2008 19:39:24
#60 Talorthane,


So tell me Talorthane when they took this oath did they lie or did they mean what they said. For if they lied under oath (1) they should resign (2) Far worse there word is meaningless can anyone believe or trust any of them again. No doubt you would say if they took an oath to the Independent Scottish state they would be telling the truth. But unfortunately it doesn't work like that they are either telling the truth or they are lying under oath which will it be.

This situation is hardly new to 'nationalists' Sinn Féin had this issue. they in all honour and consistency refused to take the oath of allegiance and so could not take theirs seats at Westminster. But they at least did not lie
64

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/03/2008 19:49:36
I'll take any holiday gaun whatever it's for. But oath of allegiance, well they can shove it where the Sun don't shine...
65

Nikostratos,

11/03/2008 20:38:56
Talorthane,

You've been spanked................
66

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 11/03/2008 21:34:03
"We, as free citizens of Scotland, do hereby acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people and swear allegiance to our chosen nation, and do hereby declare and pledge that in all our actions and deliberations that our sovereign interests shall be paramount."

Sounds like a fair oath to me. I would gladly take it and be proud to do so.
67

Eve,

Scotland 11/03/2008 21:55:51
Lord Goldsmith is clueless!!!!!

They should listen to the teachers.
Have a bottom up model instead of this pointless top down model (They are nearly always disasters or unworkable because the people dictating no precious little about the actual job and how it would or wouldn't fit in.

#31 Doreen: Aye, BUT whats really the point in saying it there!!! I don't think anyone in the Browne's has ever took that seriously. I mean they talk about elifs and pixies so much, it creates a blurry line between fiction and fantasy. The words of the brownie promise meant nothing to me back then, It was just a saying that we had to say every week.
68

Robert,

Kirriemuir 11/03/2008 22:43:48
If ever I need a tonic to regain my natural cheerfulness I only need to read the comments here in the Scotsman; laughter is undoubtedly the best medicine (and I am not saying this disparagingly)! Hail Caledonia (and the Tartan Army)!
69

talk107,

11/03/2008 22:47:59
43 Resolutions,

....I'm not disagreeing with you ...for me its a timeline thing.

The Magna Carta was the Beatles equivalent to the power to the people movement and the Declaration of Arbroath was the Sex Pistols equivalent - there was just a time difference: both, no doubt, had some kind of influence on democracy in the western world. [that's the documents not the musicians].

We (Scotland) sold our own jersies centuries ago by not being unified as a nation; instead, choosing to be power-mongering tribal, clannish gang-banging schemie neds. Shame on the clan chiefs.

We were unified for only part of the time and that was not good enough - you didn't exactly see massive celebrations of the 1707 Act of Union - yeah, the truth is that independence scares most Scots and maybe the economies of scale of being unified with our neighbours makes sense...

.......and I'm not anti-english at all. BUT, personally, I can't see past the 'rebellious scots to crush' line - so the Queen can shove any oath swearing on her name right up her royal rectum.
70

Nigel MacDonald,

Camborne, UK 11/03/2008 22:50:30
EveryScot already swears an oath of allegiance - to hate the english, and sponge as much off the english tax payer as possible. Anyway by the time this came in Scotland would be independent, and good riddance.
71

Amparo de Glasgow,

11/03/2008 23:13:08
Och a bloody storm in a tea-cup.

Better to shut down all the mosques and MAD-rassas.
This is the real threat.
Islamofascist training schools disguised as
... places of worship.

Mosques are the biggest threat.

This is another gimmick
... this silly oath of allegience.

Yea right
... I bet the jihadi boys of Leeds' Beeston ...
... who committed the July 7th 2005 atrocities
... or the doctors at Glasgow Airport last year

... would have stopped then ehh???
72

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 11/03/2008 23:24:35
I NEVER SING GOD SAVE THE KING OR QUEEN OR ANY OFF THEM ITHINK ITS STUPID
73

talk107,

11/03/2008 23:36:36
#71 you make a good point - but instead of being all 'anti-towel-headed' about things: the UK as a whole should be connecting properly with all factions and getting them onboard, so they will help patrol their own patches against any of the jihadi stuff. United we stand against the jihadi boys...not the 99.9999% cool Mosque dwelling, five times a day praying, british flag waving non jihadi muslims ... they are very welcome people to our(and their) country.

We need to be more accepting of other cultures at primary school level - did you know the jews equivalent to god is called adanai and did you know instead of one god, Sikhs worship 13 gurus? for some people Jesus was just some palestinian kid that stayed with his parents until he was 29, kicked around with a gang called the disciples while dating a pro and then fell foul of the feds. [now in this country I can get away with such irreverance - unlike Mr Rushdie, who I was sorry to see didn't realease the sequel to 'the satanic verses'...it was going to be called 'bhuda is a fat b@stard'].

Personally, I worship Thor - he's as good as any of the other market choices - he's got a day named after him and when you worship Thor...you can get hammered every day.
74

Amparo de Glasgow,

11/03/2008 23:50:22
#73
talk107
I am not "anti towel head"
... I am an atheist.
All religion is garbagio.

However Christians; Jews; Sihks and Buddists don't preach the venom of Islam
... and they do not blow themselves up cos
... Allah tells them to.

You probably live in some safe North American backwater
... here in Europe we see these Islamofascists try to destroy our democratic way of life every day.

Mosques should be shut down
... full stop
... end of story
... Muslims in Britain have no desire to integrate.
75

Reckless,

Republic of Great Britain 12/03/2008 07:26:38
Traitor number 1. HM the Queen. Has committed five acts of treason signing EU treaties that abolish our nation. She is the only monarch to have broken her Coronation oath. Failed as the ultimate check and balance, failed to insist on a national ballot for the abolition of our nation.

http://www.eutruth.org.uk/traitors.html
76

hertscot,

12/03/2008 11:07:00
No to the oath!
No to the monarchy!
No to religion!

Yes to patriotism
Yes to a republic
Yes to being a citizen
Yes to a written constitution

Listen Brown, a few words will not stop the growing push for independence for Scotland, Wales and NI.

Get rid of the monarchy, the Lords, disestablish the church, give us a constitution and a country to love, then just maybe you can stem the push of independence, but it wont be for long.

 

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