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Pressure group warns over St James parking



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TRANSPORT pressure group TRANSform Scotland has warned against increasing the number of car parking spaces as part of the regeneration of the St James Centre.
A massive £850 million revamp of the eyesore shopping centre was unveiled earlier this year in what is set to become the biggest city centre development for decades.

The scheme, which could be completed by 2015, includes new streets, two hotels,
scores of shops and luxury flats, and public squares. There are also plans to include a three-storey underground car park accessed from Elder Street.

Colin Howden, director of TRANSform Scotland, said: "It is very unclear what is proposed in terms of the volume of car parking.

"We note that the proposals will 'make a positive contribution towards the overall city centre parking supply.'

"Is this a euphemism for increased levels of car parking at the site? If so, we would not be able to support the proposals."

Chris Pyne, senior portfolio manager at Henderson Global Investors, which owns the centre, said: "There will be more visitors due to the increase and improvement to the retail offer and the provision of other mixed uses within the St James Quarter.

"At present, there are 550 car parking spaces serving St James and John Lewis. The car parks are over-utilised during peak periods at weekends which leads to queuing."





The full article contains 232 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 12:07:17
This idiot Howden should be locked up in the funny farm.

According to him, we should build a nice, new shopping and leasure complex but not allow anyone who comes there to park their car. The man is clearly away with the fairies.
2

allknowing,

26/03/2008 12:10:51
#1 Exactly, what does he propose, we all carry it back on the bus. Its minoritys like these idiots that will ruin this country.
3

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 12:17:30
#1 Unless you have a tardis, where do you propose to park all the extra cars? Any increase could jeopardise planning permission as it is against council policy - is that what you want to see?
4

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 12:26:08
To be fair Colin Howden is not saying that people should not use their car. Just that the car usage should be limited to the existing levels by not increasing the car parking provision. There is a difference.
Plus I'm sure that a good deal of people could easily do the majority of their city centre shopping trips without the car. Do you really need the Freelander to pick up a pair of scanties from Harvey Nicks??
5

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 12:26:57
#3:

"...where do you propose to park all the extra cars?"

Errm... Try reading the article...

"There are also plans to include a three-storey underground car park accessed from Elder Street."

Seems quite clear to me.
6

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 12:31:33
"Do you really need the Freelander to pick up a pair of scanties from Harvey Nicks??"

No, you don't. However, if you live in the Borders and decide to spend a day out in Edinburgh shopping, the best way to get there is by car. If you either have to queue for an hour to park or have to suffer the rediculously draconian on-street parking regulations in Edinburgh then you will probably decide to stay at home.

That is what idiots like Howden are too blinkered and bloody minded to see.
7

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 26/03/2008 12:33:04
Yeah #6 car rule ! Lets concrete over the whole city centre for parking !
8

Statsman,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 12:35:46
If you don't provide the parking spaces, people will shop out of town. Unfortunately, these Neo-Communist green clowns don't seem to understand the basic market forces present in a capitalist system.
9

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 12:35:53
#7:

I see you haven't read the article either. Never mind.
10

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 12:43:01
#6

No problem with providing for those happy Borderers who make the once in a while trip. However its the locals who are clogging up the roads when there are plenty of alternatives. Plus I have never had to queue for a hour to park in central Edinburgh (and I doubt you have too, reactionary nonesense) and if people do then more fool them.
11

Nai,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 12:44:19
#6 Er, the new Park & Ride facility at Sheriffhall, perhaps?
12

Jenny MacArthur,

26/03/2008 12:53:19
Ban all cars from the city centre. Reclaim it from the selfish gits.
13

CB,

Somewhere in the EU 26/03/2008 12:56:55
Hear hear, Jenny!
14

Hmm ...,

26/03/2008 12:59:10
... interesting that the anti-car lobby is more interested in stopping any more cars being parked off-street in Edinburgh at just the same time as desperate efforts are being made to attract shoppers back into the city centre.

These bigots are so wrapped up in their obsession that they are completely happy for Edinburgh to fail so long as cars are not accommodated.

Talk about the politics of envy!

Incidentally, as the St James Centre contains a huge redundant Cold War underground regional government centre, there is an excellent opportunity to build a large totally underground car park out of sight of the public and taking up no useful shopping space. Certainly, it would need good approaches to avoid creating congestion at its exits - but at the planning stage, this should be able to optimise its benefit.
15

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 13:02:12
#11

Good shout on the Park & Ride. Plus if I was buying any large items such as white goods or a big f*** off plasma screen I'd just be getting it delivered.
Why bother doing your back in trying to squeeze it into your car when there are plenty young polish men around to do that kind of thing.
16

Dileas,

26/03/2008 13:05:02
There is a strong argument for reducing the maximum time that cars can park on-street in the centre of Edinburgh to increase their availability - but only if adequate off-street parking can be provided conveniently close to the shops to accommodate carrying large / heavy shopping.

This site seems to offer too good an opportunity to miss!
17

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 13:08:52
Hmm
Good reasoned contribution to the debate.
For what's its worth I think there will be more off street parking provided and it is probably justified by the change in the nature of the site. However the issue is really that the pro-car lobby are like gluttons who eat everything put in front of them. Give them additinal parking space and they will use it, give them additinal road space and they will use it. Many of our nrothern european neighbours have similar and higher car ownership rates but use them less. Why are there so many people in this country who appear define themselves by the way they live their lives in a metal box with wheels and cannot see further than the end of their bonnets.
18

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 13:15:45
Gutter politics regarding cars is killing this city. We need less moronic ideas on how to make Edinburgh inaccessable by car. It is just plain rediculous.

We should go back to the way things were in the 1980s. Get rid of bus lanes, except around the bus station. Get rid of daft one-way systems. Get rid of the bollards blocking off roads. Revert St. Andrews Square and Charlotte Square to the way they used to be, complete with parking spaces. Get rid of the parking restrictions on saturday afternoon. Put Princes Street back the way it was. Build underground car-parks.

Things went fine in those days and they will go fine again. No-one needs these childish restrictions on the car---least of all Edinburgh.
19

Eighteen Seventy-Four,

26/03/2008 13:29:23
12, Jenny, selfish aptly describes yourself, would you force the disabled drivers onto public transport ?
20

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 13:42:25
#21:

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Jenny has advocated banning all cars from the city before and then gone strangely quiet when challenged on it.

To be honest, I reckon she's just winding us all up.
21

Hmm ...,

26/03/2008 13:49:30
Scallywag (18) said "However the issue is really that the pro-car lobby are like gluttons who eat everything put in front of them. Give them additinal parking space and they will use it, give them additinal road space and they will use it. Many of our nrothern european neighbours have similar and higher car ownership rates but use them less."

The thing is that TRANSform Scotland, an anti-car group, is making a pitch for no increase in off-street parking, which Edinburgh desperately needs and underground is best because it does not take up retailing or office space.

I would have thought that road users using any additional car park space or road space would indicate a need and would justify providing it!

I wouldn't support a scheme that was not going to be used - that smacks of a waste of money.

I also think that Britain's car and van drivers have some way to go before adequate roads and parking are provided - this Labour Government has spent very little on roads since 1997, despite taking huge and increasing amounts of tax from road users!

We should grab every opportunity to improve Edinburgh city centre parking. Shoppers need it and it can only improve Edinburgh, particularly when built below a city centre shopping mall. Good road access is the key, though - no point in having a huge car park without good access and exit!
22

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 13:54:48
Fuelhead, Why stop at 1980, lets go back to 1880 there wasn't half the problem with traffic then and you still might have been able to get some young lad to climb up your chimney to give it a clean.
23

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 14:00:48
#24
Hmm

Have no problem with what you say. Investment in all Scotlands transport whether it be roads or public transport has been pitiful, not just under the labour Government but the Tories beforehand.

In addition to changing attidues about jumping inot the car for every single journey, as you say the problem is one of good access and exits. I have been in plenty cities where it is easy to get into a car park but murder to get out. However as discussed its is all about too many people being in one small area at one time and how that is mananaged. Unfortunatley all users and the fabric of the city centre have to be catered for otherwise we could simply which have four lane motorways leading to underground car parks.
24

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 14:19:21
#25:

Why not indeed! In 1880 you could smoke in all taverns and inns---most of which sold either ale or scotch and nothing else. You could get drunk for 5p and when you returned home, your wife had better have had the dinner on the table or else!

If you were one of the pioneering new motorists you were obviously a highly respected and knowledgable engineer with plenty of money.

And to top it all, the labour party didn't even exist! Great! Let's do it!
25

Edinburgh 100,

Musselburgh 26/03/2008 15:17:49
Its interesting when you look at the campaign groupsd below who are or could be classed as anti car. They are all based cities that have good bus/transport links. I dont see any of them based down in say Pathhead or Skye or some place way out in the sticks. Its great that these organisations preach to us about using the car when they have easy access to transport.
Transform based in Edinburgh
Campaign for better transport based in london
Greenpeace based in london
TIE based in Edinburgh
Stop Climate Choas based in London
Freinds of the Earth.
26

CB,

Somewhere in the EU 26/03/2008 15:36:02
No. 28:

Duh! Read the article! It's about parking IN EDINBURGH. Not Skye, Pathhead, or Timbuktu...


27

Scallywag,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 16:15:15
28

I don't think any of these organisations have amajor problem with people in remote areas having to use the car. They will however argue that even in more remote communities there should be alternatives to the car.
And what better place to see transport problems than in the cities. If you have a nice car and live in the wilds where the roads are relatively quiet then you don't have a care in the world. Oh that is until something unfortunate happens to you meaning you can't drive. Illness, old age, sight going, banned for drunk driving etc.
28

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 16:40:09
#30:

"I don't think any of these organisations have amajor problem with people in remote areas having to use the car."

No. They probably don't. Provided of course that those in remote areas don't have the gall to try to drive into a city. I wonder when all these fools are going to wake up and realise that at least as many people VISIT a city ever day as live in it, if not a great deal more.

I agree that it is senseless to attempt to drive from Leith Walk to George Street, but it most certainly isn't senseless to expect to be able to drive from North Berwick to George Street and then be able to park somewhere within the vicinity---cheaply, without hassle and relatively easily. THAT is why Edinburgh should be more car friendly and THAT is why we need this additional parking space.

Glasgow was mentioned earlier and the last time I visited Glasgow in the car, I was able to find a parking space in an NCP within minutes of leaving the M8. Even though Edinburgh doesn't have a motorway running through it, with proper planning, you could do the same in Edinburgh.
29

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 17:32:29
Could any car owner honestly say they really need to take a car into the city centre everytime they shop? I doubt it. The majority of shopping could easily be carried on public transport. I have never took a car into the city centre for shopping - I prefer the bus. I don't have to spend time trying to find a parking spot, then spend umpteen pounds in parking fees. Car drivers who bring their vehicles into the city centre should hang their heads in shame. Their are several park and ride sites located around the city - so there is no excuse really.
30

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 26/03/2008 17:39:59
#31 - its folk like you that want to bring their cars into the city centre that are reducing my quality of life. Its selfish people like you that create extra air pollution and make breathing more difficult for me - you should be ashamed of yourself. I feel sorry for the Glasgow folk that put up with your pollution. I will be really pleased when they make the whole of Edinburgh city centre totally pedestrianised and cars are totally banned. Roll on a city council that brings in the car cingestion charge.
31

Road Raga,

EDINBURGH 26/03/2008 19:22:17
well said #33

 

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