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Trump resort 'a disaster' for environment and economy



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Published Date: 25 June 2008
DONALD Trump's plan to create the "world's greatest" golf course on a protected stretch of the Aberdeenshire coastline could prove disastrous for Scotland's global environmental reputation, the Menie inquiry was told yesterday.



Jonathan Hughes, head of policy for the Scottish Wildlife Trust (SWT), claimed the proposals for the £1 billion golf and housing resort on the Menie estate, near Balmedie, would send out a "dangerous" message that Scotland was prepared wantonly
to destroy its most precious natural assets.

"Allowing the development as proposed would be tantamount to killing the goose that laid the golden egg," he said.

He added: "Approving the destruction of Menie links contravenes almost every planning policy, environmental policy and government strategy in the national canon."

Mr Hughes, giving evidence at the start of the third week of the inquiry at the Aberdeen exhibition and conference centre, said central to the opposition of environmental organisations was the tycoon's plan to create part of his main championship golf course within the shifting sand dunes of the Menie links, part of the protected Foveran Links site of special scientific interest (SSSI).

In their "sheer scale and impressiveness", the dunes were the most extensive example of a mobile dune system anywhere in the UK and "one of the most superlative" examples of a dynamic sand dune system in north-western Europe, he said.

He told the inquiry: "The main purpose of the SSSI network – to defend nationally important sites against damaging developments and operations – would be severely compromised if these proposals were to be consented.

"A grant of planning permission would send negative signals about the ability of the planning system to protect the best of Scotland's natural heritage and the efficacy of national and local planning policy to safeguard nationally designated sites from damaging developments."

Mr Hughes claimed the plan would rob the site of its protected natural heritage status.

And he told the inquiry:

"The government's economic strategy recognises the value of Scotland's high-quality environments in attracting inward investments.

"This would send a dangerous message that Scotland wantonly disregards its most precious environmental assets and will happily set aside democratically agreed policy and legislation so long as the development comes with a big enough economic carrot.

"Sending this message would not only be bad for Scotland's global reputation and credibility regarding its commitment to sustainability, it could be potentially disastrous for the future of Scotland's natural environment and ultimately its economy, which depends on a healthy and well cared for environment."

The inquiry continues.







The full article contains 425 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 June 2008 11:51 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Donald Trump
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/06/2008 00:17:45

Mr Trump!, Can I polish your Shoes,?

Mr Trump!, Can I wipe your Nose,?

Mr Trump!, Can I tie your Tie,?

More 'Tea' Mr Trump,?

Anything for a 'Few Bucks',..'HUH',?

Wait! I will,..'Kiss your Feet'! if you want to purchase,..

Edinburgh Castle!
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 25/06/2008 00:49:29

The consequences don't come into it!

When we see the $$$$ ringing up in our eyes!
3

Benjamin,

Dresden 25/06/2008 02:16:07
Don't let him do it! Rich Americans don't give a rat's harry bum about your environment, let alone the "little guy" and his little guy survival. A man like Trump is so out of touch he is absolutely UNABLE to consider like normal people.

Just don't let him do it. Protest, picket, I won't say sabotage (you never heard that from me!). Your government may get the clue if enough people care about their own country and voice those concerns.
4

bring them on,

25/06/2008 02:47:19
Say no to Trump, and humiliate him in public for even suggesting such a scheme.

Away back home, son
5

mollyfurie,

California 25/06/2008 03:12:13
You would be turning a lovely piece of land over to a man who would fence it off from you (and believe me, if he can get away with building this, he can certainly put an end to your 'right to roam' laws) and exclude local people in every way. The shops and homes and amenities in this gated community will not be for you - except possibly as lowly servants. Do not grovel for his scornfully-rendered small change - please.
6

bring them on,

25/06/2008 03:42:12
Stump Trump!!
7

W Smith,

Middle East 25/06/2008 04:39:19
Interesting.

1) One developer was given planning permission to build apartments about 500m from the NYNAS refinery on Dundee's waterfront - not far from the gas works.

The owners of the small refinery pay rates - so the Labour councillors love to get there grubby little hands on the cash more than they care about the 'environment'.

2) Other developers were allowed to build next to a rubbish tip on the east side of Dundee airport. The rubbish tip is now called 'land fill' as it sounds better - as methane gas, from the decaying rubbish, is vented off from underneath an area that is now landscaped.

Obviously there was not much concern for the health of the new residents by the Dundee Labour Party.

Maybe we should ask Donald Trump to build near rubbish tips, refineries and gas works etc and the loony left Labour Party would support and approve it immediately.
8

Beth Boyle,

NY 25/06/2008 06:51:21
Just say no! This is BAAAAAAAAAAAAD for Scotland. Trump is in this only for himself and it will open Pandora's Box!
9

Scozzy,

25/06/2008 07:08:37
At last some commonsense is brought into the debate. Scotland's unique environment is worth far more than the tainted money that this spurious development would ever produce.
10

,

25/06/2008 07:22:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 25/06/2008 07:41:16
"site of special scientific interest"

The place must be swarming with scientists studing the movement of the dunes. This is very important as it could lead to a better understanding how the universe was actually formed and could lead to practical solution to the worlds energy crisis. If we can just learn to tap the power of the dunes.

"Allowing the development as proposed would be tantamount to killing the goose that laid the golden egg,"

That would be the goose that keeps Jonathan Hughes, head of policy for the Scottish Wildlife Trust (SWT) in a cushy job, feathering his nest.

12

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 25/06/2008 07:57:44
If Trump really cares about Scotland there are plenty of better places for him to renovate.

This is a housing scam. The golf is merely the shaky cleek on which to hook the scam.
13

Honest Opinion 2,

Froggyland 25/06/2008 08:03:28
So, the Scosman's provocative headline brings 11 responses so far - 10 from the usual anoraks and loonies. Stop to consider folks - how have we developed towns and villages over the centuries and how have the flora and fauna survived this gross invasion of their environment? Simple, they moved a few miles up the bleeding road/coast and lived happily ever after!!! Waken up guys, the message you are sending to the world is that Scotland doesn't welcome external investment bringing economic and social benefits - both locally and more importantly nationally.
14

Nomada,

25/06/2008 08:15:34
Nothing provocative about your language then, HO2 at #13. I expect you would class me as an 'anorak and loony' (I am neither).

The message we are sending to the world is that Scotland has a planning system that is based in law and policy, and a sense of values that goes beyond the purely monetary. You sound like someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
15

UrbanFox,

25/06/2008 08:37:15
#14 correct. H2O doesnt know what he is talking about. For example, Edinburgh is the most prosperous city in the UK, read yesterdays news. We dont need to destroy our unique environment, or tug our forelocks to a clown like Trump, to succeed.
16

It's me!,

25/06/2008 08:42:15
#13 The message refusal will send out is that Scotland's natural assets cannot be bought for pieces of silver. Come back with a well thought out plan that does not destroy Scotland and it will be considered fairly.

Some people would be in favour of Macdonald's on the top of Munros so long as they could line their pockets from them.
17

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 25/06/2008 08:43:29
Leal Scots are never afraid of SEX and nature's raw power or prudely want these magnificent autoerotic ever rolling dunes ever pinned down and COVERED by the tawdry little machinations from any property speculator.
18

Alasdair10,

Glasgow 25/06/2008 08:55:23
erm........... Credit Crunch.

Emperors new clothes,even if it does go ahead the benefits to the economy will be small. Best golf course in the world, there are hundreds that say that, most of them in locations that guarantee sun and are considerably less expensive to enjoy yourself in.
19

Myosotis,

25/06/2008 09:07:04
Honest Opinion 2:

Do you not know
1) that most plants are rooted and their seeds travel only short distances?
2) that the places where towns developed were not especially rich in wildlife, but chosen for economic reasons.

Try to understand that there is a great difference between this past urban development and the Menie application, in which a developer has deliberately chosen a site because of its spectacular natural environment.

And it`s total nonsense about not welcoming external investment when other foreign money is going into golf courses including Jack Nicklaus`s.
20

Buttress,

25/06/2008 09:29:38
Whie I agree with every word Mr Hughes says, the same arguments being used to defend the natural environment seem to have been discounted in Edinburgh where the built environment is concerned.

Last week Ministers refused to allow a public inquiry in Edinburgh to investigate the dreadful Caltongate development, in the World Heritage Site, which will see the council selling off to Mountgrange listed buildings to be demolished. Next week, planners have recommended for approval an ugly 17 storey steel and glass tower to be built in the Haymarket, claiming, bizarrely, that this will 'enhance' the World Heritage Site. The Edinburgh World Heritage Trust say it won't, it will also block strategic views, and a report has been sent from ICOMOS-UK to UNESCO so that the issue of whether Edinburgh should be placed on the In Danger list can be discussed next month in Quebec.

Seems to be no consistency regarding what goes to public inquiry and what doesn't - Trump's claims that if he isn't allowed to build this destructive development the message that Scotland is 'closed for business' can now be expected to colour all planning considerations into the future.

Sensitive and well thought out yes, developments which simply grab as much as they can so the developer can laugh all the way to the bank - no.

www.eh8.org.uk

http://www.independentrepublicofthecanongate.blogspot.com/





21

11+failed,

the pans 25/06/2008 09:52:28
Seems the over represented anti brigade on here are going to be disappointed when Trump's project gets the go ahead. This whole exercise is just the politician's face saving exercise to overturn poseur Martin Ford's perverse rejection of planning permission. I understand the bookmakers odds are 11 to 2 for the go ahead.
22

Buttress,

25/06/2008 10:02:23
Then, 11 plus failed, that would be a very bad day for Scotland and upholding of all democrativally decided national policies.
23

Boy Wonder,

25/06/2008 10:10:34
Mr Trump ... please leave Scotland alone. Take Chuckles Linskaill instead. He can be your own personal valet. Okay, at his age it'll take forever for him to do things for you ... but he's a much better propsition than you coming along and destroying a site of special scientific interest!
24

Jock Wilson,

25/06/2008 10:18:00
Hello the anti-brigade are becoming even more shrill.

The last hurrah perhaps.

25

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 25/06/2008 10:20:31
This appalling housing scam should have been treated the way that any other application for housing would have been treated under LOCAL PLANNING LAW. If any of you applied for planning consent to build a house on this SSSI among these unique dunes - you would automatically have been turned down. That is the LAW. Why should a ruthless, bewigged developer like Trump receive different treatment than a native developer?

Should everyone not be equal before the law?
26

,

25/06/2008 10:22:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
27

11+failed,

the pans 25/06/2008 10:24:29
Well, well, for the first time ever, I have had a comment(#10)removed. Seems free speech is only allowed when it is anti Mr Trump!
28

Buttress,

25/06/2008 10:27:29
Then I suggest, 26 poters at 9, that you spend some time at the inquiry and reading the statements of case supplied. This is a news report - a snapshot of what is happening. Being vulgar and offenive doesn't make you sound too clever, either.

I note that those who have little of value to say are starting to denigrate those who disagree with them, instead of engaging in sensible debate.
29

A big boy dun it an ran away,

25/06/2008 10:34:31
It’s a richt auld caper, caw awbody wi siller Auld Nick an lat the fowk in the hielands stairve, thare’s aye a mids but ye’ll no git thare wi the mirk an dout yees are pentin.
30

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 25/06/2008 10:39:39
Scotland's gullible politicians are the victims of a colossal Trump try-onThe tycoon's plans are about luxury holiday homes, not fairways. It will be an environmental outrage if they go ahead
All comments () Simon Jenkins The Guardian, Friday June 13, 2008 There is one thing missing in Manhattan: a decent pitch-and-putt course. There is nowhere you can pull out an old hickory mashie niblick, take a breath of fresh air, and chip the little monster 30 feet into the cup. I reckon the most convenient place would be on Fifth Avenue, say at the corner of 56th Street, say number 725. You need only bulldoze it flat, lay down some grass, give it a light roller and off you go, a world-class putting facility.

The trouble is some reactionary Hebridean wetback has a hut on the spot and won't sell. He says Trump Tower has been in his family for years and has been listed by the city of New York as a site of special anthropological interest, long used for marrying and counting money. Damn your putting green, says he. Have you no respect for heritage?

You have to feel sorry for Donald Trump. He came to Scotland this week to spend 97 seconds being pictured in front of his mother Mary Macleod's birthplace on the island of Lewis, and then flew his private jet across Scotland to an inquiry into his plan for a billion-pound property development by the sea at Balmedie. That the site should be occupied by a cussed fisherman and a nature reserve of European importance was the kind of thing, as George Bush would say, "I leave to my lawyers".

Trump's project, which has some local businessmen understandably salivating, is to build a five-star hotel, 500 houses, 950 timeshare flats and something called Trump Boulevard, with two 18-hole golf courses next door. Like all such projects, the publicists talk of creating 300 jobs, then 400 jobs, then 6,000 jobs, and investing £300m or £400m or, if you like, £1bn. On any showing this is a massive development on what is a beautiful and desert
31

Longdirk Maceth,

Aberdeen 25/06/2008 10:41:30
and deserted three-mile stretch of Scottish coast.

Whenever Trump has a scheme he talks up golf, the famous "Trump sweetener". Here he claims to have surveyed 201 links sites (golf courses on sandy shores) and concluded that the Menie estate covering the Forevan sand dunes near Balmedie was the best.

There is no question that the 1,400 acres of beaches, grassy hillocks, burns, dells and sweeps of reed-tufted sand are spectacular. They constitute a rare "dynamic dune" system in which sand moves under a 400m "dome" according to prevailing winds, to Scottish Natural Heritage "the largest and most superlative example in north-western Europe". It is a coastal ecology comparable with the Lyme Undercliffs or Portland Bill in Dorset.

Trump does not quarrel with this. He admits to being "overwhelmed" by the majesty of the site, by "the valleys of the dunes, the access to the ocean, the views of the ocean, the elevations". He confesses that "I have never seen such an unspoilt and dramatic seaside landscape". Which is precisely what makes it "the perfect setting" for a mini-city and six-storey hotel with customised boulevard. The rich have no time for irony.

While I wish Trump no special harm, I suggest that his supporters look him up on the Dealscape website. Here they would find their hero specialising in talking up world-class golf courses, some of which mysteriously change into housing estates and casinos or just vanish. Aberdeen is not alone but is running alongside projects at Meadowlands, New Jersey, Fresno, California, and others. In all these cases Trump seems to attract furious opposition.

At Balmedie he encountered Michael Forbes, fisherman and smallholder with a mother in a caravan, immovable from his isolated house next to the projected Trump Boulevard. When Trump finally offered him £750,000 to get out, a supportive Cambridge businessman and ecologist, Tony Bowman, offered him £1.5m to stay.

Then the British taxpayer subsidised the Aberdeen
32

Longdirk Maceth,

nz 25/06/2008 10:42:23
Then the British taxpayer subsidised the Aberdeen Renewable Energy Group to locate 33 giant wind turbines offshore, plumb in front of Trump's "magnificent view of the ocean". Finally the local council's planning committee rejected the plan on the chairman's casting vote. His decision so enraged the pro-Trump faction that it engineered his sacking.

The rejection was instantly called in for public inquiry by the Scottish executive, after much backstairs shenanigans with the first minister, Alex Salmond. The Scottish executive had already declared Trump "thoroughly good business for all concerned" and even appointed him "ambassador for Scotland", thus hopelessly compromising the public inquiry on which Salmond will have to adjudicate.

Trump's appearance in Aberdeen on Tuesday was reminiscent of his British doppelganger, Alan Sugar, whom he plays in the American version of The Apprentice. He was accused of not reading his own environmental assessment, which was hardly surprising as it told him to build well away from the dunes. He had promised to "stabilise" them, which is just what you should not do to a dynamic dune.

Told that his plan covered a designated site of special scientific interest, he reversed his former eulogy and declared them "sort of disgusting", covered in beach garbage and dead wildlife. He implied that 25,000 birds had been slaughtered by golf-hating local savages, whereas he had "received many, many environmental accolades and awards".

As a last straw Trump has been told that the dunes enjoy a right to roam. He says this is out of the question. People wanting to "sunbathe" would hardly do so when they might be "smashed by a golf ball". Anyway, if local people did not like his billion dollars he would take them elsewhere.

The proper response to the case of Trump v the Balmedie dunes is to say that, under devolution, it is Scotland's business. The massed ranks of Scottish nature and wildlife bodies may declare the project "damaging,
33

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 25/06/2008 10:43:14

The proper response to the case of Trump v the Balmedie dunes is to say that, under devolution, it is Scotland's business. The massed ranks of Scottish nature and wildlife bodies may declare the project "damaging, unacceptable, irreversible and not outweighed by any overriding strategic need or national interest".

They may say the destruction of the dunes makes a mockery of Scotland's pledge to promote biodiversity and "contravenes almost every planning policy, environment policy and government strategy in the national canon". They may argue that the development could perfectly well proceed behind the dunes, were Trump not so obsessed with getting his hands on the coastal strip.

The truth is that Scotland is a victim of another colossal Trump try-on. This project is primarily about luxury holiday homes, not fairways. Scotland's gullible politicians have been taken in by a New York billionaire with big shoulders and a rolling gait. He boasts (in Vanity Fair) that "if Jack Nicklaus tried to do this he'd have zero chance ... but I am who I am and my mother is Scottish".

If that is what Scotland wants - and hundreds of miles of Ireland's coast have been wrecked in like manner - then that is what Scotland should get. But every environmental outrage committed in the name of quick commercial gain, whether claimed for "jobs" or "investment" or "modernisation", is later regretted, from the Algarve to the Amazon forest. I am sure Trump could persuade Salmond of the "jobs" in a Trump Tower on Edinburgh's Royal Mile.

The point of environmental planning is not to capitulate to short-term market forces but to channel them to the public good. There can be no public good in building over the Balmedie dunes.

simon.jenkins@guardian.co.uk
34

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 25/06/2008 10:43:28
#21 - "Martin Ford's perverse rejection of planning permission"

How many times does this have to be explained?? Martin Ford had NO CHOICE but to use his casting vote on that committee to remit the application to a fuller enquiry.
ABerdeenshire's STANDING ORDERS stated that if there was a tied vote on a planning application - the Chairman MUST vote for the 'status quo' -i.e. 'no change in the situation'.

In doing so - Mr Ford was merely doing as many other committee chairpersons had done on innumerable occasions. This then gave the Trump organisation the right to appeal and present their case at a far larger meeting of the Council, which would have meant much closer scrutiny of the case.

Mr Ford - as far as I can see - was just doing his job.

Finally, even if the grubby handed cooncillors were minded to grant this application - it will never go ahead because a SSSI is protected under European Law - which transcends all British law. It will never happen - and that was obvious from the start.
35

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 25/06/2008 10:46:20
Thought it was interesting!
36

Eddie the Eagle,

Aberdeen 25/06/2008 10:49:09
Why is everyone going on about this "unique" environment? We have mobile dune systems from Caithness to Kent, there is little unique about Menie.

In fact as I remember it, the Geology, Geography, and Soil Science depts at Aberdeen Uni all use Newburgh and Cruden Bay (where there is a golf course on the dunes), not Menie, to teach about dune systems.

This isn't about the wildlife, it's about Trump being a Yank and us being a Xenophobic society. If this was Milne or Cala applying to build it wouldn't have even been questioned.
37

Buttress,

25/06/2008 10:50:35

'Mr Ford - as far as I can see - was just doing his job.'



Ah, but it's so much easier than having to debate with sound reasoning to demonise those who have not fallen for the Trump plan.
38

Buttress,

25/06/2008 10:53:06
We had Sir Simon's article last week - see other reports links at the side of page - I posted a link - but thank you for posting it again.

Some people, instead of listening to the broad sweep of his arguments, chose instead to nitpick details.
39

Vlad Tepes,

Snagov 25/06/2008 10:55:45
OK- this is a step in the wrong direction for anyone who understands global or local environmental affairs
OK- the last thing we need is some rich American building an exclusive golf course in the 51st state.
OK- to kowtow to this man would be to show the world that our avarice is far more important to us than our natural heritage.
BUT he's doing it for the country of his MOM, not profit, it brings a manly tear to my nose.....
40

Buttress,

25/06/2008 10:58:34

39 You are right of course - the country of his MOM that he seems not to have had much time for until now of course.

Still, he paid that flying visit to the ol' family home just before the inquiry started to show to the world how much he cares, so that's OK then.

41

,

25/06/2008 11:03:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
42

Buttress,

25/06/2008 11:08:17
Oh, here's Neil again with his claims of 'eco-fascism'. Yawn, Neil. Try another tactic if you want anyone to take you seriously.
43

Old Cartha Boy,

Dumbreck 25/06/2008 11:08:20

i just don't understand why such an insignificant body as the SWT is given an opportunity to "give evidence" on an issue that is way beyond their level of competence.
44

Clive Hamblin,

25/06/2008 11:08:29
As I understood it, there was a chap right in the middle of the proposes 'links' who owned his own patch and didn't want to sell it to Trump - or anyone else. If permission is granted, does that mean those who have expressed themselves to be in favour would be happy to see a small man bullied out?

Shame on you!

If it happens - it will also be Scotland's shame.


45

Buttress,

25/06/2008 11:10:46
43 It's called democracy. Even you could have gone along to the inquiry and given evidence, if you felt yourself competent to be cross examined on the issues.
46

Buttress,

25/06/2008 11:29:42
The latest on the RSPB blog:

http://blogs.rspb.org.uk/trumpinquiry/archive/2008/06/24/Week-3_2C00_-Day-8_2C00_-Tuesday-24th-June_3A00_-Big-buckets-and-garden-gnomes_2E002E002E00_.aspx


cue for a whole heap of abuse now regarding the RSPB...
47

Buttress,

25/06/2008 11:32:39
'Perhaps it's also worth mentioning that the first member of the golf club has been signed up... and it's Sean Connery... who was talking about it while doing a press event with Alex Salmond on another golf course just outside Aberdeen yesterday. Apparently he's signed a deal to hit the first ball if the development gets approval, which I thought was old news. Sir Sean said "I don't know too much about the environmental issues but if they can be settled then it's a fantastic opportunity." Rest assured that we will do everything in our power to bring the best ever Bond up to speed with the environmental issues, so that he will see that our alternative course design is also a fantastic opportunity, that doesn't wreck the unique site.

Of course, the First Minister is barred from commenting on the proposal right now under planning rules. He didn't comment, but he did appear with a high profile supporter; I wonder if he'll make similar appearances with opponents?'


Scotland - open for rape and pillage folks.

48

Mist001,

Marseille 25/06/2008 11:36:26
I was looking at photos of the Menie Estate over the weekend. Since it's a designated SSSI, I particularly looked for any scientists. How many did I see? Zero.
How many people did I see walking their dogs along the dunes? Zero.

The place is bleak, barren, windswept, empty and grey.

No wonder I didn't see anybody there.

I can't quite believe this enquiry is still going on. Next thing to happen will be all the participants of the enquiry to be bussed up there to see it for themselves at taxpayers expense, of course.

Mist.
49

Buttress,

25/06/2008 11:39:56
So you think a bleak, barren, windswept empty and grey place is just where people will fly to from all over the world to stay in timeshares and buy up 'luxury' homes and play golf then? A whole heap of tacky Disneyesque architecture will somehow make it so much more attractive?

50

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 25/06/2008 12:01:51
47 Buttress

I watched the First Minister make a statement on TV news early on in these proceedings. He stated that he could not give an opinion on the matter. He then went on to say "but I do know that there has been a tremendous amount of support for it locally"! (or words to that effect).

#49 One of the most important steady jobs that will be created will be 'road sand sweeper and gully emptier'!
51

Media 1,

cape town 25/06/2008 12:02:27
Allowing the development as proposed would be tantamount to killing the goose that laid the golden egg," he said

Hahaha! What an eejit. Had this guy been around a 150 years ago we would have no roads in Edinburgh, no roads in Glasgow, no railway lines to Aberdeen, no football stadiums, no golf course at Loch Lomond and no hope. Thank goodness there is enough Scottish people embracing growth and investment and sending out the right message to the rest of the world.
52

Buttress,

25/06/2008 12:18:57
The right message - come and ruin our wonderful country for your own profit. Spoil our SSSI's, ruin our WHS - but that's fine as you will be making a vast profit.

Don't you think some sensitivity is required?

53

Media 1,

cape town 25/06/2008 12:28:58
buttress

oh so now making a profit is wrong?
maybe you would be better off in a communist run nation. a capitalist market obviously scares you.
54

Blue Tooner,

Aberdeenshire 25/06/2008 12:29:53
#51 This is not 150 years ago. It's 2008, we have to look forward. Eco Tourism is one of the fastest growing industries in the world. This development has created a lot of interest in Aberdeenshire, let's take advantage of that. The unnecessary destruction of any part of an SSSI will damage Scotland's reputation more than enhance it around the world.
55

Mist001,

Edinburgh 25/06/2008 12:30:53
#49:

No, of course not. The rich and wealthy people will, though, which can only boost the Scottish economy. They'll need to spend their money somewhere and a hotel will need staff, the course will need greenkeepers, the knock on effects of this proposal to Aberdeenshire are immense.

Also as far as I can gather, Trump has no intention of building a Disneyland resort with Goofy replacing the divots, Pluto raking the bunkers or Donald Duck mowing the greens every morning and Snow White and the seven dwarves doing the catering!

I can find very few faults in Trumps proposals, but I can see plenty of advantages for Aberdeenshire.

Michael.
56

Buttress,

25/06/2008 12:54:10
Media 1- not a profit at any price.That's why we have legislation in this country to protect special places.



57

Media 1,

cape town 25/06/2008 12:54:16
mist0001

But of course the real problem with this resort for some people is that the green keeper will be wee Malky who has been on the dole for ages. Man he wont want to work will he? And then there will be the ground staff. Wee Jimmy, Big Alec, Duncan, James and Deek. They would rather be on the dole than work the land.
And what Susie the cleaner who gets her fags and her booze "boat fur ur" (bought for her)

You know what I mean. There are two schools of thought in Scotland. The YES we cans and the NAW we cannies.
I think this is a great time for Scottish industry and we should all be grateful that a man like Donald Trump is willing to invest in Scotland.
58

Buttress,

25/06/2008 12:56:46
There is very little unemployment in the area, so these sort of jobs are not in great demand. Not sure where all these people are to live, either?

The proposed architecture is appalling - and has been criticised as such by ANad DS. It's a sort of Disney take on Scottish traditional.
59

Media 1,

cape town 25/06/2008 13:10:03
Cmon Buttress

Special place? What and Loch Lomond isnt special?

Its all about mindset, you are either positive or negative.
60

Jock Wilson,

25/06/2008 13:13:05
54,

We have to look forward but we can inform that process by looking at what's already there.

Have a look at Fraserburgh, if you can be bothered, and you will see at first hand what happened to a once prosperous, bustling North East Town during a ten year period when there was a downturn in oil and fishing.

Every second shop boarded up: an entire housing estate razed to the ground as part of a desperate regeneration scheme: drug abuse and a death rate among young people that would not look out of place in Rio de Janeiro.

Fraserburgh is located among miles and miles of unspoiled dunes, almost the equal of Menie: and 5 miles to the south there is the large RSPB reserve at Strathbeg, teeming with wild life.

If this is your vison for the future of the North East, then Hell mend you.
61

Arfur,

25/06/2008 13:14:27
when i seen this headline i burst out laughing.

hurt the econemy??????????

haven't even bothered reading this artical as i know before i do its a load of guff.
62

Buttress,

25/06/2008 13:19:32
We have now in place laws, planning policies and various methods of legal protection in order that special places are NOT spolied by avarice - it doesn't always work, but we do have the policies.

We didn't used to. It was the spoiling of special places by developers without any care for what they did which brought about, slowly and painfully, the protection of the natural and historic environment.
63

Buttress,

25/06/2008 13:21:10
61 - you can't spell 'economy' and you can't be bothered to read the article. Why bother posting?
64

Myosotis,

25/06/2008 13:50:53
43:

So Old Cartha Boy considers a body with 750,000 members in the UK as "insignificant", and not qualified to give evidence at the Inquiry.

Having seen the Statements of Case presented to the Inquiry by tens of groups, I consider the wildlife organisations have performed excellently, putting forward the relevant facts and highlighting the problems in the Trump proposal. In contrast the Trump supporters have posted some quite shallow and badly written statements, for instance the Aberdeen and Grampian Chambers of Commerce.

Perhaps they are merely going through the motions, and in their heart believe that Donald Trump will be an awkward self-centred character running business in the area and should have compromised.

And while there are great claims for extra jobs, there are concerns, as expressed by the businessman Charles Skene, that existing businesses will find it hard to keep and recruit necessary workers.

Remember unemployment rate is here only 1%.
65

brownlie,

25/06/2008 14:41:06
I wonder how many posters on here have actually visited the site. I have and I certainly did not see anyone else there and the dunes looked exactly the same as others along that stretch of coast. How much interest did the "scientists" take in this site before the proposed plans became known? Very little I would suggest.

I do not recall an outcry when birds were being shot, mainly for pleasure, in this area. Was there an outcry from the RSPB?

I sense that if any other developer had put the application in that he would have quietly gained permission long ago and this site would not be full of individuals denigrating his plans.

I wonder how much the building of Balmoral Castle disturbed the environment. Of course, that is one of our "National Treasures" so that's okay.
66

Buttress,

25/06/2008 14:46:22
Look - whether or not anyone is there it's designated a SSSI. So yes - 'scientists' hve taken an interest. The RSPB has a policy of birds and sport and I suggest you seek it out. It's not the government, and doesn't make the laws. This isn't the issue here.

Even Trump has to comply with national law and policy, so it's not about Trump but about the planning issues.

These days, Balmoral would not be built without reference to planning laws and policies, and an application or several for consent.

That's just not an argument.
67

Jock Wilson,

25/06/2008 15:04:36
64

Myostosis,

Of course, you view all of the statements in support of Trump as being 'shallow and badly written' because you, like everybody else on both sides, are a prisoner of your own fixed viewpoint.

Similarly, I am amused by some of the doomsday, shroud-waving statements of those who are on the side of the SNH. So where does this get us? An inquiry, that's what.

However, I am totally skittled by your killer argument that Trump might well be an 'awkward and self-centred character'. In that case I am now totally against the whole proposal and think that Scotland, indeed European civilisation, will have had a reprieve if we rebut the overtures of such a monster.
68

Buttress,

25/06/2008 15:09:26
I have to say though, if Trump was amenable to reason, and not behaving like a spoiled child used to getting his way or no way, things may not have become so polarised.

69

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 25/06/2008 16:34:55
These daft global tree hugging EnvironMENTALISTS do not liver in the north east. They visit it then return to their concrete jungles.

Of all the type of development a golf course is about as close to nature as it gets.

It is some sand dunes. Who cares?

In the North we have lots of nature very little business. If we wish to remain in the Highlands and North East we must develop carefully our environment, not put a halt to progress so people from the south can visit and marvel at nature then return to London.

I will really enjoy playing golf their, when I can afford it!
70

Buttress,

25/06/2008 16:38:11
Well, I'm sitting her surrounded by trees (and I'm quite keen on the environment not being spoiled needlessly) but I've never felt the need to hug one. I But this inquiry is about whether or not the Trump plans are careful enough, surely?
71

Buttress,

25/06/2008 16:38:47
Oh - by the way - what about the rest of the development? Is that close to nature too?
72

McGinty,

25/06/2008 19:12:22
I believe that for Ford and the others on the planning committee, it was their right and their prerogative to vote against the plans as they stood. For that alone, Ford should not have been sacked. Where Ford made a mistake was not to publicly seek that the Scottish Government become involved at that point or even earlier. Swinney and Salmond were right to back off to avoid looking as if they had a vested interest (up to that point, it had looked 'cavalier' on their part), but to call it in for ienquiry at that stage so that it wasn't lost or it didn't get away by accident seems fair enough. However Trump's refusal to appeal and to work with the planning process does not put him in a good light. It would appear though, that the planning processes need attention if they allow irreplaceable Victorian etc. architecture to go to rack and ruin while various ignominious (concrete) monstrosities, Tesco's etc. and housing developments which do not incorporate schools, playparks, shopping and community facilities, and adequate transport links to be thrown up willynilly.
73

Ike,

Glasgow 25/06/2008 19:23:34
Over the last 30 years the population of dear Glasgow has slumped by a quarter of a million to around 600,000. Before we opened up to the very welcome Eastern Europeans and others, Scotland was dying. Our wonderful country has been stitched up tight by land-owners, planners, agencies and quangoes to control and limit expansion and economic growth. If the articulate, educated, blind, or self-interested seagull loving objectors to this plan don't pull the corks out their ars*s, they'll pass the end of their lives lonley and alone because their children will a' have b*ggared off somewhere else to make a living... and it'll serve you right! C'mon guys?! The dunes can't be destroyed!! They'll be there long after we're all dead and buried.
74

Buttress,

25/06/2008 19:34:52
Well, they won't be there as a SSSI if Mr Trump's golf course is built on them.
75

Ike,

Glasgow 25/06/2008 19:44:23
Gosh... this issue makes my blood boil ! These forums can be read round the world. When did we Scots learn to think like this? Investment must be taken seriously and properly managed... not insulted and bungled. There are 3,000 construction cranes on the skyline of Shanghai, for goodness sake. Meanwhile back here, Scottish Power has gone to Spain, our brewers have gone to Europe, the whisky to India; prices are soaring and values (savings/domestic stocks/property) are plunging. Wake up! Aberdeen Council cannae run a bath and I pray that the good sensible folk of the North East send them all packing at the first opportunity. To international readers; Please ignore the narrow self-interest of these objectors. They are not representative of aspirational Scotland.
76

Buttress,

25/06/2008 20:32:00
Actually we represent planning law and public policy, which is what this is all about.

Or, put another way - pave Paradise, put up a parking lot.

77

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 25/06/2008 20:35:56
#75 Ike.

Thank you for pointing out that some resident Scots will not stand and be counted when it comes to supporting sound moral principles, the rule of law and order, or freedom of speech. The likes of despots who think they have no need to obey common principles of democracy will not be rushing to ambrace such rules. Mr Ford deserves an honour award for standing square against disgraceful and unjustified insults.
78

Longdirk Maceth,

Aberdeen 25/06/2008 22:01:07
Media 1: At last something I aggree with you about
"I think this is a great time for Scottish industry" but only because the SNP are now running Scotland and fighting for Scotland down in Westminster!
79

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 25/06/2008 23:15:29
Buttress

How are you?

You've been busy I see, chairing the debate for a day and a half. Keeping the discussion focused and unbiased as usual. LOL

I reckon Ike (75) has the STAR post. Puts it into perspective.

PS. Please no more Joni Mitchell.


80

Buttress,

26/06/2008 00:36:31
No more Joni? I like Joni. Censorship Andrew?

 

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