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Trump inquiry: Tycoon wanted planners to 'surrender'



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Published Date: 25 June 2008
THE councillor whose casting vote thwarted Donald Trump's £1 billion golf resort plans today accused the billionaire of "demanding the surrender of the planning system".
Giving evidence at a public inquiry into the plans, Aberdeenshire councillor Martin Ford said Mr Trump had "behaved in a very unusual way towards the council" when lodging his application.

During a heated exchange, Mr Trump's legal team branded Mr Ford's comments "outrageous" and sought assurances that he would play no further part in deciding the application.

Mr Trump wants to build two championship golf courses, a five-star hotel, and hundreds of houses at the Menie Estate in Aberdeenshire.

The application was rejected last year by Aberdeenshire Council's infrastructure services committee, of which Mr Ford was chairman and cast the deciding vote.

It was then called in by the Scottish Government, given the scale of the proposals.

Much of the opposition to the plans has centred on the fact that part of a golf course would be built on sensitive sand dunes – a designated Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI).

Today Mr Ford – who was later sacked as chairman of the committee – explained its decision to refuse the application.

He said the principle of a golf resort was welcomed by the committee.

But he insisted that "the reason advanced for going against environmental and housing policies – economic benefit – was not seen as being sufficient to justify the extremely damaging consequences of granting the application".

Mr Ford said he stood by his decision, as it would "show the council was serious about wanting changes" from the applicant.

But he added that "the applicant made it clear that compromises would not be entertained".

He said: "The applicant behaved in a very unusual way towards the council, and effectively demanded the surrender of the planning system."

Colin Boyd QC, representing the Trump Organisation, said: "They were entitled to have a decision from you, they got it, and though they did not like it they accepted it.

"That is very far from your suggestion that they demanded the surrender of the planning system.

"That is an outrageous statement from someone who was chair of the infrastructure services committee to make."

Mr Boyd sought assurances from Mr Ford that, in the event of Mr Trump's application being considered again in the future, "you will have no part of it".

Mr Ford replied: "I have no idea how it will be dealt with in the future, but I have never allowed issues of the personalities involved to cloud my judgment."

Mr Boyd earlier put it to Mr Ford that there was little point in him or his three councillor colleagues giving evidence at the inquiry.

Mr Boyd said: "Let me suggest the reason you are here is to justify what was a manifestly unpopular decision not just with your council colleagues but with the public at large."

Mr Ford said of his decision: "What it meant for me personally and my popularity or lack of it was not a consideration."

The full article contains 507 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 25 June 2008 2:17 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Donald Trump
 
1

Myosotis,

25/06/2008 14:40:59
I am shocked that Lord Boyd could demand that someone democratically elected should "have no part in considering a planning application" in the future.

I.e. that the Trump organisation can subvert democracy by insisting on two sorts of councillor.

Of course it is open to the electorate to approve or throw out Martin Ford at the next local elections.

But from his courageous and sensible behaviour since he was removed as planning chair, MF is becoming a figure nationally known for commonsense, good manners and intelligence, and may well win much support regardless of party allegiance.
2

Scotland to prosper...,

25/06/2008 14:57:46
#1 Are you related to MF by chance?

Thanks to his biased decision with regards to this project, he has managed to embroil the entire Scottish Government in a case that should have been decided months ago.

External investment? Creation of jobs, housing and a tourist attraction? I'm sorry what’s the problem?

Martin Ford is a narrow-minded, selfish man whose parochial attitude has cost the Scottish economy thousands already not to mention potential loss to the country if Trump loses.

It's very simple, allow Trump his project on the condition he is held responsible for the up-keep and maintenance of the dunes. Dunes are kept neat and tidy etc, Scottish economy benefits not only from job creation and tourism, but also relieved of any cost incurred during the maintenance of the dunes. How hard is that?
3

Myosotis,

25/06/2008 14:59:37
Another reason for the change in public opinion on the Menie development has been the behaviour of the Aberdeen press.

The TRAITORS front-page headline and the EE`s encouragement to bombard by phone and e-mail the 7 councillors who finally voted against at the ISC, upset many who previously had welcomed the investment.

Just how much hand-in-glove were the press and TIGLS we shall never know, and it could be that TIGLS is now suffering because of mistakes by others.

But Lord Boyd`s questioning, and facts emerging about the bombastic behaviour of TIGLS at its US golf courses, make it pretty clear that the principal problem is the attitude of Donald Trump himself.
4

,

25/06/2008 15:02:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Number 6,

Germany 25/06/2008 15:09:39
What a pompous twonk this Ford character is. Thank god he was sacked. We don't need to import wasters from Englandshire just because we send our village idiots to govern them. On another angle. I hear a lot, that these dunes are filled with rubbish and rarely tended.
Is that true ?
6

Myosotis,

25/06/2008 15:11:13
2:

You are asking for the impossible.

TIGLS haven`t even put aside money for the promised translocation of the 35 ha of dune turves, estimated at several million pounds.

And note that rich Americans are giving up golf and coming in smaller numbers to the UK to play. As reported in the Daily Telegraph and the St Andrew`s blog of the former Menie estate keeper.

Even if given a full go-ahead, I believe this proposed Menie course will not be fully delivered, and the problems of fighting the cold, the sand and the haar, will mean we end up with a much-less-ambititious course.
7

pwd,

Borders 25/06/2008 15:11:28
Trump wanted the surrender of the planning system and thanks to Alex Salmond he got it. And now Trump's team want assurances that an elected representative of the people has no more influence on the matter. This beggars belief! Mugabe, Salmond, SNP, commissars, gulag - why do they and similar terms come to mind together? People of Scotland wake up!
8

Number 6,

Germany 25/06/2008 15:19:58
#7 That's a sacked "elected representitive" who's decision did not represent the wishes of the majority of the electorate.What's wrong ? too much investment coming our way thanks to the SNP ?
9

Scotland to prosper...,

25/06/2008 15:20:21
#6

I'm sorry, I didn't realise only Americans came to Scotland to play golf! I suppose all other countries don't count?

And as for the cold, the sand and the haar? You've painted a picture if the Russian tundra, not the North East coast.

You're excatly the kind of person who is no good for Scotland. You bad mouth the area you so dearly want kept and spurt amatuer arguements editing out anything that goes aginst your viewpoint.
10

Number 6,

Germany 25/06/2008 15:24:54
#6 You really are into the worst case scenario arne't you. You will find it will be the mega rich Russians who will be gracing this course. Regardless of nationality , they will be spending hard cash in this region, boosting the economy and creating jobs. Would you rather nothing happened in this wind swept tundra
which seems, according to your doom laden post.

It's the unionista mantra in a nutshell :

All together now ; "We cannae dae it on our own"
11

Myosotis,

25/06/2008 15:38:50
9:

I have heard too often the silly comments of the Southern English when the golf comes to St Andrews, Carnoustie, etc., that I`m sure would flow ad nauseum about Menie.

And even the former Menie estate keeper, a Scot, warned of all the shoot cancellations he had to make because of the haar.

I believe in listening to the locals.


As for me, I love this environment, and with the costs of heating rising and the energy shortage it`s high time the Southern English got acclimatised to living at realistic temperatures. But that won`t happen soon enough for Donald Trump`s plans.
12

pwd,

Borders 25/06/2008 15:43:02
* 8

He was elected by the people whereas Trump and his minions, who are walking all over Salmond & co, were not. Whatever the merits of the GC, that fact remains.
13

,

25/06/2008 15:44:43
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
14

Number 6,

Germany 25/06/2008 15:48:22
#12 The overwhelming majority of locals asked are in support of this project. Ford was going against the people's wishes.
15

kinneucher,

25/06/2008 15:51:11
A lot of people here more interested in their pockets than anything else. All together now! Bend over for that nice Mr Trump.
16

Myosotis,

25/06/2008 16:13:12
14:

How do you know in Germany what opinion is in Aberdeenshire?

Nobody here knows properly, though many would like to know.

But the local papers daren`t run opinion polls in case they produce a result they don`t want.

And despite appeals by the Evening Express for readers to vote in favour of Trump on the Prime Minister petitions, NINE times as many voted against the development as for it between mid December and the close of the petitions.
17

Andra, Dundee,

25/06/2008 16:13:47
Ha ha - "Scotland to prosper..." I'm surprised to see "you" (aka Donald Trump) with enough time to write on site!!! Or maybe you are paying your QC to do this menial work?

Jockie of Gleaasp - your racism shocks me - you are a disgrace to Scotland - I'd expect that type of talk from the BNP. What will you be suggesting next for our English / Polish / etc immigrants? Forced repatriation or worse?

Ha ha Number 6! "pompous twonk" ! ! you "ignorant twit!" - don't throw stones....
18

Myosotis,

25/06/2008 16:26:34
Besides TIGLS wanting to decide which councillors should serve on the Aberdeenshire planning committee, I now read in my Evening Express just arrived that TIGLS are calling for the resignation of SWT policy manager Jonny Hughes.

The Trump organisation simply has to poke its fingers into every group they come up against, and it`s no wonder some Aberdeen businessmen have doubts about TIGLS being in their midst.

I have watched in the past the adoration by some members of the NE public for the spectacularly rich, and then the anger when the hopes aren`t fulfilled.

Remember Hegard, the Norwegian banker who was going to transform Deeside.

I predict another crash.
19

Cappo Del Monte,

25/06/2008 16:29:05
#2
I assume you are just blinkered as opposed to being plain stupid. Why blame just 1 man when there were another 7 people who voted the same as him. You must be wiggy trumps 1 brain cell mouth piece.
Its just his sly way of circumventing planning permission to build expensive hooses for the rich and ignorant.
Once built ( if it is built to the origional plans, that I doubt ) , it will have next to no benifit to the local economy
20

Cappo Del Monte,

25/06/2008 16:31:25
#18

yes its wiggy trump stance, if you object to him remove them, sounds a bit like dictatorship, hmmmm mugabby even. God even americans know he never does what he says
21

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 25/06/2008 17:09:54
Perhaps Trump is merely jumping the gun here because when New Labour's brand new Planning Quango gets off the ground then Joe Public will have NO SAY at all.

That's right, if Gordon wants to run a motorway straight through your home, or build a Nuclear Power station at the end of your garden then tough luck.

Out Troops are dying in Iraq for "Democracy", at least that's what the Politicians say, while at home New Labour keep reducing any input that the Public still have in decision making.
22

Tom More,

Canada 25/06/2008 17:11:40
Why don't they send Donald packing, and take up one of the many other offers they've received to invest £1 billion in the area?
23

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 25/06/2008 17:56:21
Lord Combover is quite the lad. Ya think that Salmond would have a go on the Apprentice? Where ther Big D could tell him he's fired.
24

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 25/06/2008 18:05:11
As one of Councillor Ford's constituents, I feel I can make a reflective comment on this matter. He was indeed elected in the East Garioch ward under the label of Liberal Democrat. He was not elected as a Green which is nearer to his philosophy and ideology. He is at odds withe the mass of Lib dem voters and his fellow councillors including the leader of the council.

His close connections with Sustainable Aberdeenshire, one of the leading objectors to the Trump project made him unsuitable to be on the committee deciding the matter let alone being the decisive chairman of the ISC. He should have declared his interest and stood aside. He was as unacceptable in determing the application as if a councillor had been on the payroll or associate of Donald Trump had been.

He did not represent the democratic wishes of his electorate. Granted that he is a representative and not a delegate of the voters, we have just under three more years to endure him as one of our councillors. There is little doubt that the electorate of Fintray, Newmachar and Kintore will send him on his bike when our opportunity arises. We will not miss him.
25

Marcus Fenix,

The Valley 25/06/2008 18:15:34
I really can't see a good argument against this golf course. I think the potential benefits to the locals and local economy far outweigh the potental drawbacks. We really are just embarrassing ourselves with all this bickering.

Bite his bloody hand off and turn the area into a showcase for our fantastic little country.
26

McGinty,

25/06/2008 18:59:13
I believe that for Ford and the others on the planning committee, it was their right and their prerogative to vote against the plans as they stood. For that alone, Ford should not have been sacked. Where Ford made a mistake was not to publicly seek that the Scottish Government become involved at that point or even earlier. Swinney and Salmond were right to back off to avoid looking as if they had a vested interest (up to that point, it had looked 'cavalier' on their part), but to call it in for ienquiry at that stage so that it wasn't lost or it didn't get away by accident seems fair enough. However Trump's refusal to appeal and to work with the planning process does not put him in a good light. It would appear though, that the planning processes need attention if they allow irreplaceable Victorian etc. architecture to go to rack and ruin while various ignominious (concrete) monstrosities, Tesco's etc. and housing developments which do not incorporate schools, playparks, shopping and community facilities, and adequate transport links to be thrown up willynilly.
27

Jockdogma,

UK 25/06/2008 19:06:20
As someone who has to deal with the ups and downs of the planning system on a daily basis I see the arguments from both sides but people must remember that the granting of any application creates precedent. Therefore the granting of the Trump application at committee stage would have created a position whereby envirnmental restriction could have been argued at local level on any developemnt proposal which involved protected land, hands up who wants a Tesco's in their back garden? The call in was the correct way to take things forward however it would have been of more of a benefit to all if Trump had actually appealed the original decision making a call in inevitable. I can't believe that Salmond and co didn't suggest that this was the correct course of action at the time to Trumops representatives, their only mistake was to undertake this on an apparently unilateral basis. My experince tells me that this will get thorugh but with a list of conditions 6 miles long which will have the risk of making it uneconomic, I watch with interest.
28

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/06/2008 19:13:47
If the queen had submitted the same plan layout and changed the terminogy to winter palace with sporting facilities and accommodation for hangers on and guests of royalty, what would everybody be saying now?
29

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/06/2008 19:14:55
*Please enter your comment*terminology
30

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 25/06/2008 19:21:52
I want this to go through in its entirity, unrestricted - but #27 may well be right. Depends what the Conditions are.
31

drew 33,

25/06/2008 19:29:09
The preening poser Ford had his moment of fame deciding to throw out the decade's biggest inward investment in Scotland. Rightly democracy prevailed and he was swiftly removed from a post he should never have occupied. Now millions are being spent (wasted) to recover the situation so that this exciting project can go ahead. Just a pity, Ford who has never been responsible for building anything, can't be held personally liable for the cost of his follies.
32

TM,

LA, USA 25/06/2008 19:57:20
Why would you even think about trusting a man who can't even be honest about the hair on top of his head???
33

Myosotis,

25/06/2008 20:34:24
At stake at Menie is not just the power of councillors to vote in a way they see proper, but also the ability of council planning staff to check that developments are carried out according to the conditions that councillors have laid down and government rules.

When both councillors and council staff are scared that they will faced with calls to resign from developers` agents when annoying restrictions have to be imposed, the ultimate sufferers are the general public.

So TIGLS by both demanding that some councillors should not sit on planning committees and then calling for SWT to remove staff because they have done the job they are paid for, are simply showing their strength.
34

E300,

25/06/2008 21:37:07
"So TIGLS by both demanding that some councillors should not sit on planning committees and then calling for SWT to remove staff because they have done the job they are paid for, are simply showing their strength"
Just as it would be unacceptable to have Trump's employees on the planning committee it is equally unacceptable to have councillors operating to their personal agenda. Ford overplayed his hand and opened the door to his dismissal.
35

Longdirk Maceth,

NZ 25/06/2008 21:52:12

Seems to me that this guy Ford is fair, and has stuck to his guns.

Also he is right in saying that "the reason advanced for going against environmental and housing policies – economic benefit – was not seen as being sufficient to justify the extremely damaging consequences of granting the application". I aggree with that.

All over the world wrecking the enviroment is ok as long as it makes a buck, totally wrong!

But being fair he does state "He said the principle of a golf resort was welcomed by the committee"

So what’s wrong with this, surely Trump could come up with a plan to accommodate both parties? Or is he that arrogant? Sounds to me as if he’s saying “my way or the Highway” and if that’s the case, bye bye!

Check out :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/13/donaldtrump.scotland
36

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 25/06/2008 22:25:20
How come we can comment on Trump but not on Wendy?
37

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 25/06/2008 22:35:33
MYOSOTIS

YOU ARE BENDING REALITY ONCE AGAIN...

"Another reason for the change in public opinion on the Menie development..."

Where has this confirmation come from. I take it you are using anecdotal evidence and nothing objective?

AND..

"Just how much hand-in-glove were the press and TIGLS we shall never know..."

Wild accusations to further a narrow cause?

AND..

"Even if given a full go-ahead, I believe this proposed Menie course will not be fully delivered, and the problems of fighting the cold, the sand and the haar, will mean we end up with a much-less-ambititious course."

That's part of the links experience. Variable conditions means it becomes more challenging. You clearly don't understand golf.

AND...

"I believe in listening to the locals."

Only the few you agree with.

I COULD GO ON, BUT YOU GET THE PICTURE.

38

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 25/06/2008 22:49:32
"TRUMP INQUIRY: TYCOON WANTED PLANNERS TO SURRENDER"

Another calculated soundbite from Martin Ford.

THE REALITY IS THAT THE PLANNERS ACTUALLY RECOMMENDED THE APPLICATION TO MARTIN FORD'S COMMITTEE FOR APPROVAL.

His last soundbite was "BANANA REPUBLIC". (You'll see it as a link down the right hand side of the web page.)

The PR company he hired seem to be helping him with the 'spin' designed to get into the headlines. The local press are not biting, but the Herald and Hootsman like a controversial headline to get the juices flowing. A bit like tabloids really.
39

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 25/06/2008 22:58:22
33 Myosotis

Ford was sacked from the committee by the ruling Lib Dem group, not by Trump.

AND, the full council gave their support for the development on 12 December 2007. Ford continues to ignore these happenings. He is a MAVERICK councillor.

24 Huntly Loon's second paragraph describes why he shouldn't have been put in the position of ISC chair on this application.
40

Mikko,

Drumnadrochit 25/06/2008 23:01:05
When will Trumpty wake up and realise that, just as this nation will not tolerate an un-elected cretin of a prime minister we also will not accept debt ridden dodgy billionaires trying to buy up our country.
41

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 25/06/2008 23:18:12
41 Mikko

A bit behind the times. He already owns the land.
42

mad moo,

edinburgh 25/06/2008 23:39:33
36....All over the world wrecking the enviroment is ok as long as it makes a buck, totally wrong!

You better believe it but Scottish government wont stick their neck out in Edinburgh where they handed a massive application to double the existing gap site on their doorstep back to the local Cooncil to decide de4spite the cooncil having agreed a cozy wee land deal with the developers and thousands of objections from locals,visitors, experts on international and national architectural heritage, and numerous organisations.Alex brushed aside the potential threats to World Heritage of the Capital of Scotland, as being issues the local council are best placed to deal with so no call-in for this scheme which contradicts National Policies on architectural conservation, culture heritage and sustainable development!

Details of the whole deal at www.eh8.org.uk
43

subrosa,

26/06/2008 00:17:38
# 24

Interesting post. Thanks.
44

overton,

balmedie 26/06/2008 06:11:05
PLI NEWS

Can someone tell me why all the plumby members of the Belhelvie Community Council have resigned and why are they not now appearing at the Inquiry as objectors?
45

,

26/06/2008 06:17:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
46

overton,

balmedie 26/06/2008 06:23:30
Many people may wonder why, with the majority of people in Aberdeenshire in favour of the Trump Development, we have four maverick Lib Dem councillors attending the PLI as objectors against the wishes of the Council and their party.

Apparently they have not been ejected from the Lib Dems because the tenuous hold that that party has up here would be seriously compromised.
47

overton,

balmedie 26/06/2008 06:29:26
It seems that the Inquiry will be subjected to the self opinionated and blinkered views of the maverick Lib Dem councillor Paul Johnstone this morning.
That is if he manages to pull his limited knowledge of planning matters together (he had lost his Ladybird Book on Town and Country Planning yesterday and was completely lost).

He will be looking forward to a strict cross-examination from Storr, Ford and Ross.
48

Myosotis,

26/06/2008 09:07:07
24, 40, 47:

You collectively call Martin Ford a maverick councillor for following Lib Dem official policies.

Maverick is your opinion, but this is simply not backed up by the general national policies of the Liberal Democrats.

Go to their web page and see prominently "All our policies have a green thread running through them". And a recent report, Green Standard, considers the Lib Dems the most green of the UK mainstream parties.

So in reality it is the ruling group of Aberdeenshire Lib Dems who are the mavericks.



Perhaps you should consider
49

Myosotis,

26/06/2008 09:21:43
38 Andrew:

You are going over old ground with your claims there hasn`t been a big drop in support for the Trump development.

I repeat what I say in 16, but also infer from the changing balance of support on messageboards, readers` letters and everyday conversation.

Could you explain why no one has taken an opinion poll in the north-east recently?

Finally, I think there would be a big majority wanting a compromise. RSPB/SWT/BSBI have given one example.
50

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 26/06/2008 09:48:51
These "embryonic shifting dunes" now of national even international importance in the eyes of a few zealots are neither referenced by the Joint Nature Conservation Committee or the National Biodiversity Network. Why?

As for the RSPB and their compromise they were MIA when Menie was a shooting estate and the pink footed geese were being blown out of the sky.
51

Myosotis,

26/06/2008 12:50:05
51

J.R.Ewing is simply wrong as usual.

30 secs on the NBN Gateway will produce records from the Foveran Links SSSI.
52

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 26/06/2008 16:09:18
Smoke and mirrors from Myosotis again

Here is the links:-
http://www.searchnbn.net/siteInfo/siteSpeciesGroups.
jsp?useIntersects=1&engOrd=false&allDs=1&maxRes=1&siteKey=33134

Foveran SSSI - no mention of "Shifting dunes along the shoreline with Ammophila arenaria" or "embryonic shifting dunes"

These are listed at
http://www.jncc.gov.uk/ProtectedSites/SACselection/habitat.asp?FeatureIntCode=H2110
where there is no mention of Foveran SSSI
53

Myosotis,

26/06/2008 17:40:55
51 and 53: JR Ewing.

What a joke you are.

In 51 you say there`s no reference to Foveran in either JNCC or NBN web pages.

Well. In the NBN there`s lists of SSSIs and putting in Foveran tells you in a flash the names of a thousand plus species there, belonging to many different groups.

No need for all that coding you have copied out.

From your last sentence in 53, I suspect you have been searching at JNCC in a list of SACs, and didn`t find an SSSI.

If you looked in a list of mammals, you wouldn`t be likely to find a cuckoo.

54

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 26/06/2008 18:19:25
50 Myosotis

I claim nothing. I asked for some substantiation of YOUR claim and all I get is something about support on messageboards from people all over the world. And then an assumption that because there has been no local poll, support must have dropped. Hardly convincing my friend.


55

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 26/06/2008 19:26:52
Myosotis

Until now I have refrained from reacting to your outbursts of personal abuse.
Just like your idol Ford your attitude is condescending in the extreme. You know better and that is the end of it. The natives need saving from their ignorance and in your inflated opinion you, Ford and his cronies are the our saviours.

Now to the facts regarding Ammophila arenaria" or "embryonic shifting dunes" which is the mainstay of the case against development having switched from “adders tongue” Ophioglossum vulgatum when that was`shown to be another red herring.

You made a`claim in a previous post that “ 98% of the Scottish stock of young dune slack will be lost because of the golf course”

More garbage and I have provided the links to prove that beyond reasonable doubt.

Suspect nothing, I searched both sites for “embryonic shifting dunes" obviously something beyond your capabilities.

These dunes are listed at many other locations on the NBN gateway but not Foveran SSSI
With regards to the JNCC site they list all areas of national importance where “embryonic shifting dunes” are a major feature but no Foveran SSI. They even list all sites where “ embryonic shifting dunes” occur but are not a primary reason for selection – still no Foveran SSSI. Why?

Still avoiding RSPB double standards I see
56

Myosotis,

26/06/2008 20:10:18
56:

1. The claim of 98% of the Scottish stock of young dune slack communities to be lost because of the golf course was made by SNH. However, you know better than all the people who have carefully recorded and measured this type.

2. I simply can`t understand why you are bothering with foredune and embryonic dunes along the shore line, since TIGLS have committed themselves to doing nothing there, and it is not an issue for any conservation body.

3. The mobile sands and sand dome that have provoked the controversy are inland mostly near holes 13, 14 and 18.

4. You obviously have strong feelings about shooting and hunting, but that is irrelevant to the present case. RSPB is neutral and it would be foolish of them to campaign for the ending of grouse shooting since the management of these moors often creates good habitat. That is not say that all those involved in this management are angelic, and certainly RSPB checks that raptors are not being attacked, but that is not being against shooting, full stop.
57

Buttress,

26/06/2008 22:25:07
Well, I see Neil once again used the 'Hitler' slur in post 13. Makes a change from his more usual 'fascist', but is no more convincing in his rants.

Godwin's Law Neil?

58

overton,

balmedie 28/06/2008 21:51:30
56 JR Ewing,

Do you notice that they are all the same? They come in with the plumby condescending insults and do not even read or understand the posts that they automatically react to with abuse.
It is interesting that the four maverick Lib Dem objectors have exactly they same attitude - they know best and the electorate are there to be treated with contempt.
Could buttress, mobocaster, nomada and myosotis perhaps be related to that four?

59

Buttress,

29/06/2008 16:29:14
Don't be ludicrous. Really, how low are the depths of banality you can plumb, Overton?
60

mollyfurie,

California 03/07/2008 18:17:07
Who do you keep arguing about the 'golf course?' What Trump is REALLY proposing is a gated, guarded community for the very rich.

Perhaps someday all natural scenic areas will be owned by such men - in fact, I am sure of it, Because people are all too willing to sell out the environment and their own heritage for short term gain and the opportunity to grovel before their 'betters.'

When it comes to the environment, all victories are temporary and all defeats are final.

 

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