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Salmond set to face full parliament over his role in Trump controversy



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Published Date: 20 March 2008
ALEX Salmond is likely to face stinging criticism over his role in the Trump affair from the floor of the Scottish Parliament after the decision of a Holyrood committee to open the subject up for debate by all MSPs.
The local government committee wants the full parliament to debate its report into the First Minister's role in the Scottish Government's decision to "call in" the planned £1 billion golf and housing development.

A group of committee conveners ha
s to agree to the move first and then the parliamentary bureau, which decides parliamentary business, has to find time for a debate.

But with the opposition parties dominating both bodies, it appears inevitable Mr Salmond's role in the controversial planning application will come before the full parliament, after it returns from its Easter recess.

Donald Trump, the US property tycoon, wants to build a "golf resort" on the Menie Estate in Aberdeenshire – which is in Mr Salmond's Gordon constituency.

His plan has been approved and rejected by different committees of Aberdeenshire Council and will be the subject of a public inquiry after John Swinney, the finance secretary, decided to call in the application.

Mr Salmond has consistently denied any wrongdoing, insisting he acted at all times as the constituency MSP, and not as the First Minister.

But the local government committee did not entirely share that view, publishing a report that claimed Mr Salmond had been "cavalier" in his attitude to the Trump development.

That report was clouded by a split along party lines, with the three SNP MSPs on the committee refusing to endorse paragraphs critical of Mr Salmond.

The full debate on the floor of the parliament is likely to be just as partisan, with Labour, Liberal Democrat and Tory MSPs taking the opportunity to condemn Mr Salmond's role and SNP members defending the First Minister.

It is not known whether Mr Salmond will defend himself or ask other ministers to speak up on his behalf.

But the Scottish Government will have to defend its role, not just in its handling of the Trump affair but also over another controversial development, in Aviemore, which was mentioned in the committee report.

In that case, ministers have been accused of interfering in the planning process to help the cause of a major SNP donor, Donald Macdonald, who was facing delays in trying to get approval for an expansion of the Highland Aviemore Resort.

During the committee's deliberations yesterday, Bob Doris, an SNP MSP, raised questions about the pressure on parliamentary time, and said it would be better to discuss issues such as child poverty, which the committee is looking into.

But Duncan McNeil, the committee's Labour convener, said it was wrong to suggest such an inquiry's parliamentary time would be "at risk" if the Trump affair was debated.

Alasdair Allan, another Nationalist MSP, said the SNP was not anxious about a debate on the Trump plan but was raising concerns because the committee report was so "poor and thin".

Fellow SNP member Kenny Gibson claimed most people were "bored rigid" by the affair.

The committee voted 5-3 on party lines in favour of going to the conveners' group to call for a debate in parliament on the findings, but agreed unanimously to call for the Scottish Government to respond to it.

David McLetchie, a Tory MSP, criticised the Scottish Government for releasing more than 200 pages of information on the Trump development after the committee had published its report. "Had it been released earlier, there may have been a number of pertinent questions that we could have addressed to witnesses," he said.

KEY POINTS IN THE COMMITTEE REPORT

1Donald Trump tried to influence Alex Salmond by sending him newspaper cuttings suggesting he may go to Northern Ireland instead. On the day before the application was called in by ministers, Mr Trump's personal assistant sent an e-mail to the First Minister's office – it contained two articles, saying the development planned for the Menie Estate might move to Northern Ireland.

2Mr Trump phoned Mr Salmond personally before the application was called in.

An e-mail from David Ferguson, head of the Scottish Government's planning decisions division, to Jim McKinnon, the chief planner, on 11 December last year, stated: "First Minister said Donald Trump wished to contact him to discuss the situation and he felt he had no option other than to take the call."

3The First Minister's office was closely involved in the process surrounding the Trump development, despite him insisting he was acting as a constituency MSP. E-mails and correspondence released this week showed that the chief planner and senior officials in the planning department worked closely with the First Minister's private office on the issue. This was despite Mr Salmond being barred from ministerial involvement because of his role as the constituency MSP for Gordon, the site of the proposed development.

4Officials were concerned about the prospect of Mr Salmond meeting Mr Trump at an event in New York . The First Minister is due to fly to the United States at the end of the month for Scotland Week, and there had been suggestions in the media that the two might meet at an event on 31 March. An e-mail from Robin Naysmith, the Scottish Government's representative in New York, revealed that officials from Mr Salmond's office had been in touch to confirm the First Minister would not be meeting Mr Trump at the event.

5Jack McConnell, the former first minister, was very keen for his administration to share in any good news. Correspondence from 2005 and 2006, when Mr Trump started looking for a golf project in Aberdeenshire, showed Mr McConnell and his aides were keen to get involved if announcements were made, aware it would be seen as "good news".

6There was concern among Salmond aides over opposition to the Trump plan and worries that Mr Salmond was appearing to ignore these opponents. Hannah Bardell, the First Minister's office manager, wrote last October: "I'm getting a bit of hassle... these people feel they have no representation."





The full article contains 1022 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 March 2008 9:41 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Donald Trump
 
1

The Silverback,

Letham 20/03/2008 00:08:57
Kenny Gibson's right- We are getting bored of this!
2

Joe M.,

Edinburgh 20/03/2008 00:12:10
The Labour members of this committee should be ashamed of abusing it in this manner. To first of all deliver a supposedly 'damning report' which didn't actually point to any actual thing that the First Minister did wrong was bad enough but this is even more silly and does nothing useful.

Holyrood's committees are supposed to act on an non partisan basis. This is a clear attempt to embarrass the First Minister but I reckon it will backfire big style and I expect the SNP to be guffawing at Labour's lame attacks just as they did over their pathetic tactics on the Scottish budget.
3

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20/03/2008 00:32:24
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subrosa,

20/03/2008 00:41:25
If I had a unionist MSP I'd be sending a very irate email to them saying to stop wasting parliamentary time and get on with doing some good for Scotland. The report on the state of our schools is enough...
5

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20/03/2008 01:09:52
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Mac Gill-eathan,

Nothing to do with the Brit pack! 20/03/2008 01:10:21
I believe this continual reporting of a non issue is more for the gratification of this unionist paper & their pals the Kings of nepotism The scottish labour & unionist party & the lib Dem unionist splitters than it is for the good of the nation! It will though, suit unionist charlatans & complicit servants of the perfidious British state like AM2 & his gang of British nationalists!!
7

democracy,

Scottish Borders 20/03/2008 01:13:48
Tomorrows headlines......Mr. Salmond, SNP First Minister of a Nationalist Executive found guilty of attempting to secure inward investment for his country and therefor undermining a Unionist Scotland's gradual decline into obscurity!!!
8

Shamus,

Glasgow 20/03/2008 01:30:07
Wee Alec is just passing through time. And his time will be less on this planet unless he gets his weight down and some sleep. This story is an old one. It is the job of politicians to get work into the country. And Alec is right on this issue. Pity he wants to get rid of tens of thousands of jobs in the defense industry. But he is a dreamer. Most people wake up from dreams.Will he.
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20/03/2008 02:17:11
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20/03/2008 02:49:10
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20/03/2008 03:53:21
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Auckland Arab2,

20/03/2008 04:34:14
Stinging criticism?!? from Wendy!!! Don't make me laugh. As has been said before "cavalier" is now a criminal offence and the only crime here is Alex trying to secure £1bn of inward investment for Scotland. The public will make up their own mind that this is a pathetic attempt to blacken Salmond at the expense of potentially losing the whole Trump thing.
13

Jimmy the Pie,

20/03/2008 06:09:41
Anyone caught sight of Wendy's e-mails yet???
14

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20/03/2008 06:38:56
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15

donald,

glasgow 20/03/2008 06:43:39
OOH. Being called a cavalier by the Turnipheads, is this the best these crooks can do?
16

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 20/03/2008 06:52:15
Observing the committee interogation of witnessses during their investigation of the Trump affair (on Hollyrood TV) was embarrassing ,for several reasons.Firstly,it was clear that this so called investigation was motivated by a desire to smear Alec Salmond.Secondly,some witnesses were treated with total disrespect in what must have seemed like a trial.Thirdly,some MSP's asked incoherant questions and failed to hear the answers to their questions.The narroweness that was displayed to the country and the rest of the world was not pleasant to witness.

It was interesting to notice that the Liberals drafted an MSP ,who was a lawyer, onto this committee for the duration of the Trump investigation.One wonders why they seconded an MSP who is not normally a member of that committee? My guess is that they needed to find something wrong(anything) to protect their leader who had very foolishly,talked about sleeze.I think that he will regret opening his mouth on this one since no evidence whatsoever has been found about sleeze.Not only was his accusation unfair and unsubstanuated,it was politicallty naive since the electorate in the north east are extremely annoyed about his clumsy intervention.This is evidenced by surveys of public opinion and recent polls demonstrating that Alec Salmonds popularity is rising.The best survival strategy for Nichol Stephen would be to be gracious enough to admit that he was wrong,and to apologise.Otherwise I think that this one will come back to haunt him.

I am open minded about the merits of the Trump application.I accept that there needs to be a public investigation of the case and would hope that some of our MSP's become mature enough to stop wasting energy on nitpicking around the margins.There are more important issues that should concentrate their minds.For example,growing the Scottish economy,aleviating poverty and inequality,improving health care services,improving the environment and increasing the access to education.Also in these
17

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20/03/2008 06:52:27
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Argyll on line,

Argyll 20/03/2008 06:52:55
The poinsoned dwarfs and the pygmies are pathetic beyond belief.Led by arch-dwarf MacNeil of Inverclyde. Bring on the ballot box and let's have rid of them.
19

McMillar,

Fife 20/03/2008 07:16:06
Beats working for a living...
20

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20/03/2008 07:29:35
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Conway,

20/03/2008 07:33:24
What i find embarrasing about the whole affair is dont these MSPs not realise that people from all over the world are watching ? Have they been in the goldfish bowl too long?
22

brownlie,

Glasgow 20/03/2008 07:33:37
Does this mean that the public inquiry initiated by John Swinney will not now be necessary as this is going to be a matter of discussion by the decision takers at Holyrood? I suspect that this is a further delaying tactic in the unionist hope that Trump will go elsewhere and Salmond can be blamed. It will be interesting to see if Nicol will ignore his constituents and repeats his sleaze allegations or will he keep his head under the parapet. It will also give someone an opportunity to bring up little Wendy's donations. I think that in their desperate efforts to throw mud they will further alienate themselves from the electorate. It is futile to comment on the writer of this articles as he is so transparently pathetic it is embarasssing to read.
23

The informed voice an SNP activist,

Old Celtland of yon year past 20/03/2008 07:38:50
Seig Heil my fellow Scotchmen, yon celtland arriseth acometh

Did ye not a kenny that it were wrang tae run a jig aroon' were ane Wee 'eck?

Did ye not a kenny that collecting golf balls from the bottom of a golf theme park lake is guid job like?

Did ye not a kenny that were ane SNP use and abuse parliamentary process since a yon time to crap stir and have were right cheeck tae start complain' a noo aboot not embarassing yon high heid yin likes?

24

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 20/03/2008 07:42:05
Do these idiots not see the damage they do to the reputation of parliament and Scotland's image abroad? Cheap politicking which will achieve nothing. For ch***** sake drop it. If this does go to a debate Eck will wipe the floor with them, again.
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20/03/2008 07:54:23
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20/03/2008 07:55:38
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20/03/2008 07:55:48
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Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 20/03/2008 07:58:57
Seems the SNP doesn't want its dirty linen washed in public. Doesn't augur well for open government in an independent Scotland.
29

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 20/03/2008 08:01:19
#37 Neither a Unionist or Nationalist, but a Fedarlist.

Give us one example of this 'dirty washing' you mention? Just one.
30

Bob Christie,

20/03/2008 08:08:33
IS there is no level to which the unionists would not stoop to prevent the betterment of Scotland?
31

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20/03/2008 08:12:33
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Suomi,

SaloFinland 20/03/2008 08:24:36
The key points in the committee report have nothing to do with sleeze and tell us very little.For example:
1)Trump told Salmond he may go to Northern Ireland.So what? Is Alec Salmond to blame for that.What is their point, what are they alluding to?Whatever,they provide no evidence of wrong doing on Salmonds part

2) Trump called Salmond before the planning application was called in.So what? I assume that their thinking is that Salmond might have influenced the decision to call the application in,but they submit no evidence.

3)The First Ministers office was closely involved with the process surrounding the Trump development.Anyone who observed all of the interviews during this investigation already would be aware that there was a lot of contact between Alec SDalmonds office and the chief planner,and that the purpose was to obtain advice and pass on information.It was not to influence the planning process,as the statement appears to infer.Again no evidence of any wrong doing is provided.

4) Officials expressed concern that Salmond might meet Trump on the 31st March.There is an asumption that Salmond might meet Trump.I think this most unlikely and since 31st March is in the future,they now seem to be in the business of predicting the future.Of course Alec recieved advise from various people about was sensible.

5)Jack McConnel was keen to share any good news.Apart from wondering what that has got to do with Salmond,so what.Any First Minister is entitled to be keen to associaste himself with good news.It is the nature of politics.

6) Concerns were expressed that Salmond may be ignoring the opposite (environmental) view.This is somewhat weak.Alec Salmond as MSP for Gordon has arrived at a conclusion about the merits of both sides.The issue is not what opinion he holds,but whether he makes that opinion public during the planning process.He has not.

You can see the weakness of the committee report.There is no evidence offered,only inferences drawn from ver
33

James,

Dundee 20/03/2008 08:34:00
Hamish.
Is recycling old rubbish always good for the environment?
34

Queen D,

Glasgow 20/03/2008 08:43:32
I am angrier by the day about this.
Time wasting "get the SNP at all costs" bunch of cretins.
I hope Trump takes his golf course to Northern Ireland and makes a statement to the world as to why.
Nicol( the Nose ) Stevens , I hope you lose your seat big time, and I remind you there is yet a smell regarding the Aberdeen by pass for you to deal with.
Likewise Ms Alexander , the stench is still coming , and we know you broke the law , despite your claim that you have been cleared.
The electorate is watching , and it is unimpressed by these shenanigans.It is equally angry with a labour indulgent press and BBC.
Beware!
35

HughB,

Edinburgh 20/03/2008 08:52:10
This is being dragged on and on by Labour, Liberal and Tory, along with the media.

The Scottish Government should just put out a challenge to the "opposition": Do they vote FOR this development, or do they vote AGAINST this development?

Simple. That would put the onus on them to either allow this inward investment, or to send it to NI.

They wouldn't want to put their money where there mouth is though, because they are too chicken to stand up for themselves, let alone standing up for Scotland.

Chicken, Chicken.
36

frank mcbride,

lusitania 20/03/2008 08:52:28
The Ms Fortune that is the Unionist Alliance is, yet again, about to highlight, for the people of Scotland, its paucity of vision.

AS and the Scottish Government should be rejoicing at this ineptitude.

If the main priority of the Unionist Alliance is to have a full Parliamentary debate on the Meddie project, does it not give the lie to the new vision of the eponymous Ms Fortune, Ms. Alexander?
37

Alan Reid,

NZ 20/03/2008 08:56:54
10 Shamus,Glasgow "Pity he wants to get rid of tens of thousands of jobs in the defense industry. But he is a dreamer. Most people wake up from dreams.Will he"

The Tories by fixing the Rosyth V Davenport in the favor of Davenport (because it was a marginal seat) in 1991 screwed Scotland out of 3000 jobs. That was despite Roysth having proper facilities, more experience , and 22 million cheaper. And to add insult to injury, because Davenport did not have the facilities, they have overspent on that contract a cool billion.
So mate before you spew bile about Mr Salmond, all I can say is, at least he is standing up for Scotland, when it is clear Westminster don’t give a flying f@ck about the “sweaties”

And if losing jobs is because Scotland wants to rid it’s self of WMD’s then so be it.
Sorry mate you’ll have to try harder.
38

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20/03/2008 08:57:04
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39

Alan Reid,

NZ 20/03/2008 09:03:33
32 clarry,balmedie, You don't speak for me meathead.
40

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20/03/2008 09:05:31
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41

No Knothing,

20/03/2008 09:06:25
47 Juan Kerr

You're right. No matter you dress it up, we're all tarts, and we need someone to give us money.
Offer us some money, and we'll all drop our trews and bend over. It's just an individual question of how much it takes for you, me or our elected reps to start undoing our belts.
No disrespect intended to Mr Salmond, as any of the others would do the same. And, as far as I know, Mr T is not on hos party's donor list.
42

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20/03/2008 09:14:08
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43

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

edinburgh 20/03/2008 09:17:23
Obviously this is deemed by New Labour to be within the publics interest ironically if AS had actually broken the law then he wouldnt be facing an enquiry today he only had to use the Wendy get out of jail free defence.
44

Nikostratos,

20/03/2008 09:17:36
we have a parliamentary democracy and not a one party state with a unaccountable to anyone 'Leader' this is the way we keep our freedoms.

Having the First Minister justifying his actions before his peers within the Scottish Parliament is the strength of our DEMOCRACY.

What is it the 'Nationalists' fear to have the First Minster debating this issue in front of the Scottish people...........
He was quiet happy to to discuss this with all and sundry out of the public eye........why so shy now?
45

Arfur,

20/03/2008 09:17:47
Yes Mr Salmond - how dare you look out for the country you represent and how dare you attempt to bring in much needed investment to that country.
46

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20/03/2008 09:20:21
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20/03/2008 09:22:31
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20/03/2008 09:25:10
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49

Linda,

Edinburgh 20/03/2008 09:28:05
Has this committee of nonentities got nothing better to do.

A complete waste of time as no rules have been broken and no deals done.

The roundheaded puritans like Duncan McNeil is what folk voted to get rid off last May.
50

Miss H,

20/03/2008 09:29:24
They can't force a vote because it is now the subject of a public enquiry.

However I expect Alex Salmond will speak himself on this. It should be worth watching!
51

No Knothing,

20/03/2008 09:30:47
58 Juan Kerr

I assume by "bribes", you mean party donations, in which case they're all at it.
52

walter,

20/03/2008 09:34:21
Kenny Gibson claimed most people were "bored rigid" by the affair.
That reminds me of Labours "Draw a line under this" when they did not want to discuss something that may prove to be detrimental to them.

This does not need to go to the floor of the parliament.
What is required is for a full independent inquiry with no areas barred from investigation as that is the only way we will find out if there has been any violation of the laws, rules or regulations.
This need to be carried out by a group from outside Scotland, that way they cannot be accused of operating with a partisan agenda.
53

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

20/03/2008 09:37:36
I don't particularly see the point of the whole of parliament debating this.

That being said, there are lessons to be learned from this - one thing is clear - there needs to be much clearer guidance as to the demarcation between acting as First Minister and acting as a consituency MSP. But then that is just one issue regards the ministerial code of conduct.

Personally, I'd like to see a wide-ranging root-and-branch independent review of the ministerial code of conduct for the Scottish Parliament.
54

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20/03/2008 09:40:48
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Mike Partick,

Glasgow 20/03/2008 09:45:10
#53 & #62 - Let me get this right, the charge against the First Minister is that he was "cavalier", so cavalier in fact that he neither broke the law nor breached Ministerial Codes of Conduct...and as a result one of you wants a full debate on the floor of the Scottish Parliament and the other wants a full public inquiry. What a great way to spend public money...not!
56

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

20/03/2008 09:46:23
#64 People already have the right to opt-out of a Trade Union's political fund - so I don't particularly see that as an issue. The only reason that the Tories, Nats and Lib Dems attack Trade Union funding is that it is politically expedient to do so. The irony is that in recent years Labour has become less reliant on Trade Union funding but has found itself much more beholden, not to business or trade union donors, but to individual donors.

It is about time the thorn of political party funding was grasped instead of being tinkered with.
57

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 20/03/2008 09:46:39
53

Agreed if there was a genuine reason for him to have to do so but not in order to divert attention away from the illegal activities of the opposition parties.
The level of political corruption involved in setting this farce up is transparent to all. Wendy Alexander admits illegal activity but its deemed by an oppostion heavy committee that its not in the publics interest to persue the matter. Everybody in Parliament agrees neither the first minster nor any other member of the government broke any ministerial codes nor the law yet this nonsense has been deemed to be within the public interest by the same opposition MSPs ONLY!!! not by any independent body. It fools nobody and the results will be frankly nothing. Nothing will come of this it will die away but the job of diverting attention away from the real corruption will have been acheived or so the oppostion hope.
58

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20/03/2008 09:48:25
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brownlie,

Glasgow 20/03/2008 09:56:57
53 Nikostratos
I don't think the "Nationalists" need any lecture on democracy from a Government that took the country, deceitfully, to an illegal war against the wishes of 80% of the population i.e.those that can think for themselves.
Any independent observer, far less a "Nationalist" must see this shabby charade for what it is - attempt to claim that "Yes, we are corrupt and have been shown to be so, and we will now attempt to prove that you are the same". Fat chance! You claim that Salmond was happy to discuss this "out of the public eye" but is now shy? I do not think that is a word that can be associated with probably the best public speaker in Scottish politics as I think Nicol and Wendy will find out during this debate.
60

Nikostratos,

20/03/2008 09:57:06
#67

That's the Democracy we have right or wrong.........why people believe Democracy is always pretty mystifies me.
How do you suggest we 'Police' our representatives to behave in a way more suitable to those outside Parliament

61

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 20/03/2008 10:06:40
70

No its because we dont have democracy at all. If we did all of these matters would have been dealt with by bodies independent from Parliament and party politics.
62

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20/03/2008 10:09:43
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20/03/2008 10:11:18
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64

WKKB,

20/03/2008 10:11:18
Can someone tell me please... Do we really need another golf course? IF Scotland REALLY NEEDS another golf course then for goodness sake let the 2 spoiled little boys play their game and have their golf course. Personally I can see a whole h*ll of a lot of other areas where those funds could be much more usefully spent for the Americans as well as the Scots. If trump really wants to do some good he can help rebuild areas ravaged by the storms on the gulf coast or throw a little money into feeding the hungry. I don't see his organization taking credit for building schools in Africa or feeding the starving children there.

All trump wants to do is "trump" St Andrews. He's a little boy who always gets his way and now he wants the biggest and the best golf course and of course it has nothing to do with helping Scotland but everything to do with putting his golf course on the same soil as St Andrews so everyone can see how much better his is than ours.

As for Alex Salmond, he's jut naieve enough to fall into the trump trap. The two of them are quite a pair, both looking out for themselves only and NOT the good of Scotland.
65

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20/03/2008 10:13:47
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Mike Partick,

20/03/2008 10:15:15
#74 - And what exactly was the trap? In a country the size of Scotland a £1 billion development is big news and something I'd have thought would be of importance to whichever party was in Government at Holyrood....would you really want 1 local authority to have the final say on this?
67

Sgurr,

20/03/2008 10:18:05
The Labour Party has never been known as a party of big business, but this really is petty. Just because they are no longer "in power", they are trying to pee on this parade. Don't they understand the damage this is doing to Scotland's reputation as a place to do business???? OK, blood simmering now.

There really is no argument - just get this development approved and start work yesterday. Either that or we can spend our future wandering round a depopulated Scotland, marvelling at our natural beauty, but wishing that our children had jobs to go to in our own country.
68

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 20/03/2008 10:22:44
#74 "Do we really need another golf course"

Will you all get something through your heads? This is NOT a golf course. It is a housing development of 1500 houses with a golf course tacked on as a sweetener or rationale. In fact the fundamental issue here is plain as day. Wouild ANY developer receive planning permission to build 1500 houses in this bit of Aberdeenshire? If the answer is 'no' - which it undoubtedly would be - then why does adding on a golf course change the issue in any way?

If you visit any of the great golf courses of Scotland at St Andrews, Musselburgh, Gullane, etc. and suggested building 1500 houses next to them - would you get permission? No you wouldn't.

This enquiry should be about planning in Scotland. Does the law apply to everyone without favour? Should a councillor who does his legal duty be victimised and sacked for merely doing his job? Should a rapacious and ruthless American capitalist be 'shoed in' to a major housing development by the intervention of business interests and the First Minister?
69

Derick fae Yell,

Lilliput 20/03/2008 10:22:45
"In a little time I felt something alive moving on my left Leg, which advancing gently forward over my Breast, came almost up to my Chin; when bending my Eyes downwards as much as I could, I perceived it to be a human Creature not six Inches high, with a Bow and Arrow in his hands...turning my Head that Way, as well as the Pegs and Strings would permit me, I saw a Stage erected about a Foot and a half from the Ground, capable of holding four of the Inhabitants, with two or three Ladders to mount it: From whence one of them, who seemed to be a Person of Quality, made me a long Speech, whereof I understood not one Syllable....I could observe many periods of Threatnings, and others of Promises, Pity and Kindness"

Gullivers Travels - whereby a person of normal size visits the Labouriputians.

PS Gordon Brown is mad.
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20/03/2008 10:22:52
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Methalions,

20/03/2008 10:23:55
Wipe the floor with them Alex. They're a disgrace.
72

WKKB,

20/03/2008 10:25:03
"Meningitis UK's 'Search 4 a Vaccine Campaign' aims to raise £7 million over the next seven years to help fund cutting-edge research to develop a vaccine against Meningitis B, which causes almost 90% of cases in the UK and for which there is currently no vaccine. "

Seems to me that's a much better use of trump funds than a golf course. Why don't the two of them work out a donation for this research? Alex Salmond would come out of that one a hero as would "The Donald" as he prefers to be called.

73

Mike Partick,

20/03/2008 10:25:21
#80 - what exactly has the FM done wrong....there was no breach of the law or the Ministerial Code of Conduct?
74

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 20/03/2008 10:25:45
74

Scotland needs what every other country in the world needs and that is inward investment and the spin off benefits from leisure centres and activities. They bring in tourists they encourage spending Christ its obvious why am I even bothering to answer yer inane post?
75

walter,

20/03/2008 10:27:14
#65
How do you know the Ministerial Codes of Conduct has not been breached, certainly not from the committees investigation as it was not in their remit to investigate whether the ministerial code had been broken.
Maybe you can enlighten us into what investigation was carried out and by whom, who found it had not.
I am all for this development, but I also believe that every one should follow the laws rules and regulations that exist.
If any individual or group has been accused of misusing or breaking any of them then they need to answer those allegations.
Since as we are seeing accusations of the committee working along party lines and not in the interest of finding the truth then it seems that the only way to get to the truth is to have this affair investigated by an independent group that has no affiliation to any political party or dare I say Scotland in fact I would go as far as to say the UK.
76

Amparo de Glasgow,

20/03/2008 10:27:19
Time we shut down Uncle Tom's Cabin in Edinburgh.

If the Scots honestly believe in real independence
... make a clean break from London rule
... campaiagn for outright independence !!!

Half-way houses like Uncle Tom's Cabin
... only lets egotistical shysters
... like wee Eck kid on
... they are a "government".
77

Sgurr,

20/03/2008 10:29:38
74 - is that really your view? Would you also reject eg an American firm coming here to build a new distillary because you think that they are just on an ego-trip, in an attempt to prove who can make the best whisky? Would you ignore the jobs and regeneration it would bring to highland village "x"? Blimey! I've heard the term "little englanders", but you are a "wee Scotlander" if ever there was one.
78

,

20/03/2008 10:30:17
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79

,

20/03/2008 10:31:02
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80

Mike Partick,

20/03/2008 10:31:44
#85 - to quote from a Scotsman article on this subject from 14th March - "The committee believes that the Code of Conduct for members gave Alex Salmond discretion as to whether or not to meet the representatives of the Trump organisation..."

81

Publius,

London 20/03/2008 10:32:34
#74 WKKB No. Scotland doesn't need another golf course (though some more playing fields in Glasgow would be useful).
#78 Tweedmouth. You're right. The proposal isn't really about golf. It's about houses. Given the collapse of the housing market in the USA (and the slowdown in Spain and Ireland) and the likely slowdown in the UK, there is now a good chance that Trump will get cold feet and pull out altogether or, worse, abandon the project half way through. It's time Trump's SNP supporters stopped seeing the proposal as inward investment and recognised it as pure speculation.
82

WKKB,

20/03/2008 10:36:34
Donald Trump trap is that he sweetens deals to get his way. He may not outright bribe but he does coerse using sleekit tactics to gain favour and support from the very ones he needs to get his plans through. If he can get the First Minister on board and make it feel like it really is the best thing for Scotland because the First Minister is backing it then he'd bea ble to trap all those Scots who don't bother finding out but rather just go along with their leaders and follow along like the rats of hamblin followed the pied piper... right to their meteforic deaths.

And YES I know it's a housing development he wants to put in with his golf course (aka the sweetner) but to whom would the development cater to... certainly not the middle class. Can the middle class really afford to buy property on a golf course like the one trump is selling?
83

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 20/03/2008 10:37:06
85

Because if it had then it would be in every national newspaper in the country and we would be debating it on every second thread in this forum.
Do you have any more stupid questions Walter???
The committee didnt have a legitimate REMIT Walter it was setup to dig up dirt they couldnt find any so they concocted an investigation over nothing.
The oppostion is riddled with corruption this whole shabby episode is an oppostion production in corruption and if you cant see it or you simply refuse to see it then you are living in denial.
But I suspect your only pretending you dont understand.
84

Miss H,

20/03/2008 10:37:07
63 The end result of this is that there will actually be more behind-the-scenes fixing, not less.

There is absolutely no evidence that Alex Salmond did anything improper. He played it straigt down the line and the attacks on him are for the 'appearance' of impropriety not for impropriety.

So what lesson will be learned from this? Basically to ensure that you don't do anything that could be made to look bad such as meeting a developer in your role as MSP the day before your ministerial colleague calls the application in. How do you handle that when as constituency MSP he was not allowed to know what his colleague was going to do (and obviously didn't know since he held the meeting at that time).

Well - it means that he should have been told doesn't it? Even though that is against the rules. And that is probably what will happen in future. So there will be more political fixing of planning issues not less. But if ministers are to be attacked for the appearance of what they do rather than what they do then that's going to be the consequence.
85

Methalions,

20/03/2008 10:39:27
88 Amparo

Yet again you come here with your racist garbage. Scrolling time.
86

,

20/03/2008 10:42:07
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87

WKKB,

20/03/2008 10:45:25
Interesting comment #87... a wee Scotlander eh? Well... let me tell you, I know more about Trump than most 'wee scotlanders'do. I lived and worked there in his shadow for years. I saw first hand his underhandedness. It's Trump that is the issue for me. If he could come up with a better way to invest his billions in Scotland I may go along with it but he's always out for himself and what it eventually will put in HIS pocket and HIS only.

~91 is right, not just Glasgow but other areas of Scotland could use a few playing fields. Labour wards around Scotland could use an injection of funds so labouring moms don't have to travel hundreds of miles for hours hoping they don't deliver on the way. Roads could be repaired, schools could be overhauled, computer labs could be upgraded in ALL schools in Scotland not just those in the right post codes.

Donald Trump doesn't build affordable housing so who will buy those houses? Not the children of the villagers, they'll be foreced to move away because the trump housing is far beyond their budget. In order for those children to afford a trump house on a trump golf course they'll have to move to London, get a high paying job there and become independently wealthy so they can move back to the village of their ancestors.

Do you see my point yet???

Trump is a selfish little boy and a playground bully.
88

 Ayrshire Scot™,

20/03/2008 10:49:31
97. Was that you I saw getting fired on 'The Apprentice' when you botched the ice-cream assignment?
89

,

20/03/2008 10:49:32
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90

Methalions,

20/03/2008 10:56:50
99 Amparo the racist

The Scotsman apparently thinks it is as your #88 was removed. You come on here at every opportunity with your racist remarks. Your last sentence of 99 is just pathetic.

Your "arguments" the last time you spouted this trash were shot down in flames. You really have no idea.
91

AJM,

20/03/2008 10:57:43
#94 Miss H absolutely no sympathy with the issue. Ths SNP especially under AS in Westminster have spent years doing this. Now that your party finds its self in power it suddenly finds how annoying it can be. Well, how much money was wasted in the cash for honours debacle and which party launched that. As you say it is not fair to attack for the appearance of wrong doing only when there is wrong doing, but how will we know?
Perhaps your party should show some maturity itself before pointing fingers at the opposition and saying the tactics are unfair, using tactics that your party have perfected over recent years.
92

walter,

20/03/2008 10:58:56
#90
Duncan McNeil, the committee's convener said "The committee does not have a remit to consider breaches of the ministerial code".

You say "The committee believes that the Code of Conduct for members gave Alex Salmond discretion as to whether or not to meet the representatives of the Trump organisation..."

You are confusing 2 different codes, the members code is for all members of the Scottish parliament, the ministerial code is for those members of the Scottish parliament that hold ministerial office.


93

Methalions,

20/03/2008 11:03:36
Amparo 99

...and this racist post has ALSO hit the dust.
94

Mike Partick,

20/03/2008 11:06:19
#102 - you seem to choose to forget that Alex Salmond as well as being the FM is also a constituency MSP for the area concerned. The members' code is relevant here as it gave him discretion to speak to the developer even whilst being FM. Let's face what MSP (or MP for that matter)wouldn't want to speak with someone who was planning a £1billion dvelopment in their constituncy.
95

brownlie,

Glasgow 20/03/2008 11:07:24
97 WKKB
Whatever Trump's motives it must be clear that if there is going to be a first class golf course, a first class hotel and housing that there will be an enormous benefit to an area in which there is very little employment opportunities. Before someone brings the minimum wage into the equation they will need green-keeper, electicians, plumbers etc none of them will work for the minimum wage nor can I imagine that many employees in a first-class hotel will be on the minimum. Whoever buy the houses, the golf course and hotel will not bring their provisions up from London - they will have to be serviced locally which will inevitably attract more business and afford more employment. That being the case personal animousity to Trump is largely irrelevant. Personally, as a Hebridean, I would much prefer to see a golf-course developed up there rather than the proposed wind-farm which although although it may contribute to the environment will be much more of an eye-sore than a golf course.
96

subrosa,

20/03/2008 11:08:53
I really couldn't care less if Trump gets his golf course. It'll never be another St Andrews but an American built version of a golf course.

What bothers me is the harm this whole affair has done to the reputation of Scotland worldwide. The labour/libdem parties have brought us down to a level of mockery by the business community. These people aren't interested in Scotland - their only interest is themselves and keeping their jobs.
97

Mike Partick,

20/03/2008 11:09:27
#103 - As far as I can see - and if I'm wrong please tell me where - all the report comes up with is that he was "cavalier" - so cavalier in fact that as I pointed out earlier there was no law broken or code breached.
98

Melly,

Sussex 20/03/2008 11:10:24
#99 Amparo
Is it not time for your injections ?
99

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 20/03/2008 11:26:09
101

The cash for honours scandal was a legitimate investigation into corruption and illegal donations at the highest levels of government. The same people who were under investigation quashed the investigation all in the national interest of course.
And you try and compare that with this piece of sh*t nonsense going on now??
If there was a comparrison then AS would have quashed the entire episode weeks ago all in the national interest of course.
Even you cant be that stupid to compare the two???
100

Sgurr,

20/03/2008 11:26:52
WKKB - You are implying that there is something specifically wrong with Trump's money, yeah? Why? What? If this were Duncan Bannatyne or that guy that who used to flog guttys, would we treat it differently & why? We'd have the same hippies saying we can't develop 2 miles of a 20 mile dune system.

At the end of the day, this says far more about the petualent way Labour have behaved since being booted out of office & worryingly for Scotland, it says alot about how we treat big business.
101

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 20/03/2008 11:27:21
102

So which code of conduct was broken then Walter???
and why does nobody in the opposition agree????
102

walter,

20/03/2008 11:27:54
#105
No I have not, as a constituency MSP Salmond as I would expect any MSP met with developers.
The question lies whether he was able to influence matters being FM while acting as a MSP.
Point 3 of the reports says "The First Minister's office was closely involved in the process surrounding the Trump development, despite him insisting he was acting as a constituency MSP. E-mails and correspondence released this week showed that the chief planner and senior officials in the planning department worked closely with the First Minister's private office on the issue. This was despite Mr Salmond being barred from ministerial involvement because of his r