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Grant Scotland an overdraft and scrap Barnett – Calman

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Published Date: 03 June 2009
HOLYROOD will be allowed to run up debts and the controversial Barnett Formula will be consigned to history in dramatic recommendations by the commission set up to review Home Rule in Scotland, The Scotsman can reveal.
In a long-awaited report, the Calman Commission will call for a new financial set-up which will make MSPs more accountable – but could see Scotland's budget severely reduced. The commission also believes the Scottish Government should be granted limited borrowing powers which would be wide-ranging enough to raise £2 billion for a new Forth Road Bridge.

But, despite proposing the biggest changes to Scotland's governance since devolution, the recommendations will not be welcomed by Nationalists and supporters of a maximum version of Home Rule. The Scotsman understands the commission will reject any new tax-raising powers for Holyrood or assigning Scotland's share of the oil and gas revenues directly to the Scottish Government.

The Calman Commission was set up in 2007 by the three main unionist parties – Labour, Liberal Democrats and Conservatives – after a proposal by former Labour leader Wendy Alexander in direct opposition to the SNP's National Conversation.

Unlike the National Conversation, the commission was supported by a majority of MSPs in a vote in the Scottish Parliament and got the backing from the UK government. Sir Kenneth Calman, one-time chief medical officer north and south of the Border, now Chancellor of Glasgow University, was chosen to chair the commission and its membership included leading figures from Labour, Conservatives, the Lib Dems, business, trade unions and the media.

The commission's remit was to look at how Scotland's place in the UK could be embedded by improving on the devolution settlement. It excluded any discussion on independence, which meant it was at first boycotted by the SNP.

Now the commission, which officially publishes its report on 15 June, has decided major changes need to be made.

Instead of the Barnett Formula it wants Scotland to have taxes raised in the country – including income tax, VAT, stamp duty and inheritance tax – assigned directly to the Scottish budget. On top, there would be a small top-up grant to make up for revenue from corporation tax – many companies in Scotland are headquartered in England – and oil and gas which would mostly go directly the Treasury.

The plan is that with assigned revenues, politicians in Holyrood would have far greater responsibility for the size of their budget through their decisions on economic growth. Significantly, however, experts believe the change will result in a drop in Scotland's budget – which could lead to cuts in services.

The proposals will be seen by some as evidence the commission was a smokescreen to cut Scotland's budget.

Assigned revenue without oil and gas money was first mooted by Gordon Brown in Glasgow last year. This was described as the worst possible option by the SNP because it potentially reduced Scotland's budget but did not give them the control over tax they wanted.

The proposals are a slap in the face for Lib Dems who wanted "devolution max".However, The Scotsman understands Lib Dem members of the commission, including former deputy first minister Jim Wallace, have agreed to the final report which will be unanimously supported.

The Scotsman has been told most members of the commission felt that handing over fluctuating oil and gas revenue and tax-raising powers would create "unacceptable instability" in Scotland.

The oil and gas and borrowing proposals will be unveiled on Friday by the expert group of economists working for the commission headed by Professor Anton Muscatelli.

On borrowing powers, the commission has accepted Prof Muscatelli's recommendation that a minimalist allowance is made. Holyrood would be allowed to borrow but only on a similar basis to councils, which means that the Treasury would have to give its permission and there would be a cap on how much debt the Scottish Government could go into.

One source close to the commission said: "If you look at the papers produced on oil and gas and borrowing by the expert group and compare it to the document produced by the Scottish Government they are a long way apart in quality. The first is world class, the second very flimsy."


The full article contains 709 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 02 June 2009 11:46 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Devolution
 
1

,

02/06/2009 22:25:17
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2

Nevsky;,

Moscow 02/06/2009 23:11:25
2 Rufus*

Totally agree. I am just glad Brown and Darling have their hands on the tiller.

Wait a minute...where has Darling gone??
3

Nevsky;,

Moscow 02/06/2009 23:33:27
Rufus*

Have a work with these Labour MPs for goodness sake. Try and talk them round with your political insight.

They just don't seem to understand how great a leader Brown is...i mean he must be great..you said so when he was invited to the Whitehouse that it was proof and then there was that time when he turned around the world banking crisis single handedly.

And look at all the good work he has done in ordering independent enquiries! Never in history have so many independent people been involved in (not sure what really).

'Labour sources said that many of the party’s MPs were in a state of panic. A private meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party was described by MPs as “emotional and jittery,” with several backbenchers openly accusing Mr Brown of lacking leadership and direction'
4

,

02/06/2009 23:45:17
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5

,

03/06/2009 00:03:40
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6

Don Roberto,

03/06/2009 00:06:06
Poor Rufus, outed as Nikos...
7

Conan the Librarian™,

03/06/2009 00:23:36
6
Tell us more caballero.
8

It's me!,

03/06/2009 00:25:50
"The Scotsman has been told most members of the commission felt that handing over fluctuating oil and gas revenue and tax-raising powers would create "unacceptable instability" in Scotland"

As opposed to an unacceptable instability in England? What a carve up!
9

Vivas,

Edinburgh 03/06/2009 00:48:21
How awful that Scotland might fluctuate between being merely self-sustaining and filthy-rich.
10

The Vital Spark,

03/06/2009 00:58:07
"Assigned revenue without oil and gas money was first mooted by Gordon Brown in Glasgow last year. "

It is almost as if the review (oops Commission) was preordained to do exactly what British Brown wanted.
Now the Brit Nats would surely not be that underhand to have performed a year long charade to pretend they were looking after Scotland's interest whilst all the time just putting British interests above Scottish ones as always.
11

The Strategist,

03/06/2009 01:01:55
These proposals will never be implemented. Brown and Labour will be gone soon and when the Tories get elected the attitude of most Scots will harden against Westminster to such an extent that they will demand a referendum on indepence and the SNP proposition will win it outright.
12

Iainbroch,

03/06/2009 01:02:54
Calman is now an irrelevancy! It is now tarnished and tainted by its association with a corrupt Westmidden Establishment.
Calman has done the job that the corrupt Lieboar Party commissined it to do! Bin it along with Lieboar!
13

,

03/06/2009 01:31:42
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14

Florajo,

on the poop deck 03/06/2009 02:03:18
"The proposals will be seen by some as evidence the commission was a smokescreen to cut Scotland's budget."

No need for a smoke screen

Calman's drivel report! SPIT!!
Another example of time wasting and misuse of funds.
Has anyone got a clue what it's about?
15

Electric Hermit,

03/06/2009 02:07:46
"The Calman Commission was set up in 2007 by the three main unionist parties..."

What more do you need to know?
16

Electric Hermit,

03/06/2009 02:09:58
"The proposals are a slap in the face for Lib Dems.."

So the Calman Commission wasn't a total waste of time then.
17

Florajo,

walking to the pool 03/06/2009 02:10:17
cynicus just make another member id

we'll find you visa versus

adios

18

Electric Hermit,

03/06/2009 02:12:29
The final paragraph is just gossip. Whatever happened to The Scotsman that I used to respect?
19

,

03/06/2009 02:16:17
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20

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 03/06/2009 02:18:18
The CALMAN Commission on Scottish Devolution:-

SIR Kenneth Calman chairman of commission, chancellor of Glasgow University.

Colin Boyd, former Lord Advocate, LABOUR PEER.

Rani Dhir, director of Drumchapel Housing Co-operative.

James Douglas Hamilton, former Scottish Office Minister, and CONSERVATIVE PEER.

Professor SIR David Edward, retired Judge of the European Court.

Lord Elder, LABOUR PEER.

Audrey Findlay, former Leader of Aberdeenshire Council, now convener of the Scottish Liberal Democrats.

Jamie Lindsay, former Scottish Office Minister, chairman of Scottish Agricultural College and CONSERVATIVE PEER.

John Loughton, president of the Scottish Youth Parliament (serving in a personal capacity).

Murdoch MacLennan, chief executive, Telegraph Media Group.

Shonaig Macpherson, chairwoman of the National Trust for Scotland and Scottish Council Development and Industry.

Iain McMillan, director, CBI Scotland.

Mona Siddiqui, Professor of Islamic Studies, Glasgow University.

Matt Smith, Scottish Secretary, Unison.

Jim Wallace, former Deputy First Minister as leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats, now a LIBDEM PEER.


The list includes 2 SIRS 5 PEERS and someone from "big brother"

This band of unelected muppets have been appointed by the unionists to determine the future of Scotland.

Appointed by the labour, conservative and liberal incompetents.
21

donald,

glasgow 03/06/2009 03:44:14
I'm certingly not clairvoyant, but I can predict the outcome of every Labour inquiry in advance. Talk aboot a Campbell jury. Bendy, the Met, Labour Lords, etc, etc, not guilty. Will the Labour falling "Star Chamber" pot find themselves guilty?
22

urchin,

03/06/2009 03:49:00
Rock on independance,and give the tick book back to Westminster.

IF INTERESTED CHECK THIS OUT.W.W.W.OILOFSCOTLAND.ORG
23

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 03/06/2009 04:04:07
By the time this talking shop finally delivers its recommendations events will have already passed them bye.

With Browns Government near collapse who will they report to? Cameron?

He may well have his own ideas.

At least the final recommendations can become the other option in the Independence referendum.

So Scotland what do you prefer:

(A) Status Quo of having our future controlled by an increasingly bankrupt UK.

(B) The end of Barnet and only part of the revenue raised in Scotland being assigned, but this does come with a credit card so we can borrow to replace the revenue that the UK steals from us.

(C) The Full Fiscal Autonomy that goes with Independence, including complete control of all revenue and the ability set our own tax rates to create the necessary environment for economic growth.








24

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 03/06/2009 04:39:35
Bring on the REFERENDUM ON SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE and be RID OF THE UNIONIST PARTYS ONCE AND FOR ALL. INDEPENDENCE AT ANY COST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
25

Bret,

Aberdeen 03/06/2009 05:41:18
A serious question:

Given the limited powers of the Calman commission to the Scottish government, how does Scotland tuck away funds for national emergencies?

Unlike Norwegian government who stashed their oil revenues to fall back on in a time of crisis, The UK government spent theirs. So what chance does Scotland have without revenues?
26

Castaway™ ,

03/06/2009 05:48:49
Most members of the commission felt that handing over over fluctuating oil and gas revenue would create "unacceptable instability" in Scotland.

Here is an idea hand over the fluctuating oil and gas revenue and Scotland could have its very own oil fund.

"It Is Still Scotland's Fresh Water"
27

The Col. of Monte Cristo,

03/06/2009 06:32:57
Great News!

We are to get a pay cut and given a credit card to make up the difference.

IT'S TIME!

Time to hand in our notice!
28

,

03/06/2009 07:07:57
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29

Marian,

03/06/2009 07:11:10
For a party that had never in its history held government office the SNP has put up an outstanding performance at Holyrood. Faced with an irrationally hostile political opposition, with too restricted powers, and with almost the entire Scottish media (centrally?) directed against it, the SNP has succeeding in consolidating the Scottish political leadership to the extent that there is no longer the slightest chance of a reversion to a more London-centred system. The SNP may have its faults, but at the moment it is irreplaceable as the government of Scotland.

Also lest we forget that Scotland's natural resources are candidates for theft by those not blessed with abundant natural resources unless we protect them -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article5728477.ece

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/scotland_front_140209.pdf

"Truth, Lies, Oil and Scotland " a BBC Scotland Documentary from a year ago - see - tinyurl.com/b4bo2e

"Secret plan to deprive independent Scotland of North Sea oil fields"
see - tinyurl.com/dk73mb

Finally. how Unionists really treat Scotland:-

"Plan to hive off Orkney and Shetland" see – tinyurl.com/bmjhlz

"Whitehall’s plans to head off devolution" see - tinyurl.com/bjphfl

Diomhair, the BBC ALBA Gaelic programme regarding Scottish independence and the undemocratic methods used to counter it by the British State see - tinyurl.com/da7uou
30

TWC,

exLabour 03/06/2009 07:45:01
Without control over Natural resources the whole Calman Commission was a waste of time.
Without such controls Independence is guaranteed.

We went round the whole thing and came out with Brown's recommendations, Brown hates Scotland for wanting it's own control which stops him being the King of Britain.
31

piehutt,

03/06/2009 07:47:29
The Scotsman has been told most members of the commission felt that handing over fluctuating oil and gas revenue and tax-raising powers would create "unacceptable instability" in Scotland.

----------------------------------

Yes, clearly it would be too much responsibiilty for any elected Scottish Parliament to be burdened with the task of spending this revenue, so best to just leave us with the 'normal' taxes that don't fluctuate.

On the plus side, this report sounds like it will be ripped up for bog roll by any journalist worth his salt.

So give Scotland their share of tax raised in Scotland, but we'll just guess what corporation tax would be and we'll not bother with ALL taxes raised in Scotland.

Good luck trying to spin that one unionists.
32

,

03/06/2009 07:58:34
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33

Boab1,

03/06/2009 08:02:22
Yes, let Scotland borrow in the hope they run up debts they can't pay back then we can tell them how useless they are and how much she needs the UK. Do me a favour. I think even the unionist press will struggle to sell swingeing cuts to Scotland's budget as a good thing (though they will try).

As far as I'm aware tax returns tend to fluctuate as well so how about just agreeing to give us oil and gas revenues and we'll see how we get on. The real reason they'll never do that is it will show what a lying, cheating bunch of crooks they've been for the last 30 years. To talk of fluctuating prices as the reason is patronising claptrap and should be treated with the contempt it deserves.
34

Boab1,

03/06/2009 08:03:30
#35 that would require that they were able to speak and write in clear English so is a non-starter!
35

Boab1,

03/06/2009 08:04:27
#34 Unfortunately journalists at unionist newspapers are not allowed to be 'worth their salt'.
36

gus1940,

Edinburgh 03/06/2009 08:05:17
This is the final confirmation that all the Unionist Quisling Parties will always act in the interests of The Union irrespective of any damage that will be done to Scotland.

When are supporters of these parties who are determined to do down Scotland at every opportunity going to waken up and reqalise that there is only one political party which will always act in the interests of Scotland and its people - The SNP.
37

redcliffe62,

03/06/2009 08:09:22
so headline from mad dog should say. "oil and gas revenues being given to scotland would cause economic stability",and then say what would be unstable about running your own bank account rather than waiting for darling and brown to give scotland a hand out.
but that would suggest the story was designed to find out the truth rather than be a press release regurgitation from labour about how good they are for scotland without the word labour actually being mentioned. terrible story yet again. sad.
i think they had better come up with somnething past max devolution now as britain plc is really on the nose, even for the english.
bookies william hill had it 100 to 1 ON that the next leader of the labour party is not a scotsman. 60 to 1 against and no takers it would seem.
i am kidding, i think.........
but scotland's pollies are poison to england at the moment and england's pollie system is poison to scotland and will vote accordingly.
38

Aesop,

Edinburgh 03/06/2009 08:12:25
When the Referendum Bill is published can we assume that this dog's breakfast of no new tax-raising powers, cuts in funding, and a build up of national debt, will be the unionist ammendment? Fine, let the people of Scotland decide:

1.The Status Quo
2.Calman
3.Independence.

Independence here we come. :-)
39

buzzer,

Aberdeen 03/06/2009 08:13:13
24' Urchin.
What an amazing website thank you so much for that i am definately signing the petition and have downloaded car stickers. I urge all forward thinking Scots to do the same.

This commission is kidding no one and the fact that we are all yawning at the final outcome shows how out of touch these muppets (commission) really are.

Oh and they are a complete waste of our money as well.
40

,

03/06/2009 08:23:23
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41

letmein,

hinterland 03/06/2009 08:39:21
Who cares what calman says. The people of Scotland will be independent before the year is out.
42

Ewan Randall,

03/06/2009 08:51:00
(#10) – (The Vital Spark) – If you were a British government wouldn’t you put British interests first?

If you were a British government and you didn’t put British interests first would you be doing your job right?

If you were a part of the British political structure and you wished to pursue actions which were against British interests, then are you not working against the collective population of Britain?
43

Hector the Red,

03/06/2009 09:03:08
#45

SCOTTISH INDEPENENCE DAY

Now there's a fantastic thought, hopefully in my lifetime.........(in the next 30 years + or - 5).

But the sooner the better.
44

Hector the Red,

03/06/2009 09:03:59
should be # 44

too exited to type at the thought of it!
45

TheDisplacedGlaswegian,

Edinburgh 03/06/2009 09:05:07
So the dependency parties put together a commission to determine the best way Scotland can move forward within the union and come up with a plan to reduce our allocation. Is this the real world? Honestly, how can they possibly suggest Scotland having control over north sea resources and having tax raising powers would be bad for us?
I am totally sick to the back teeth of these so called 'Scottish' unionist puppets.
46

bonnietiler,

Oz 03/06/2009 09:09:40
But why are the Edinburgh trams not going all the way to the airport?
47

Nevsky;,

Moscow 03/06/2009 09:14:14
49 Indy*

Just watch all the HQs currently based in London switiching to Scotland. People seem to forget that business will be where the cash is....every bottle of everything you buy at least has an Irish number on it...these are jobs!

Not one multinational based in Scotland because London is the capital and not Edinburgh...all of them Nokie etc etc etc would need to have a Scottish representation of some kind!
48

Scottish and Proud,

Glasgow 03/06/2009 09:21:50
The unionists are becoming boring ,and repetitive ,let's be done with it
INDEPENDENCE NOW!!
49

mr broon,

Edinburgh 03/06/2009 09:22:49
After the next UK election, whichever Unionist party is in power at Westminster, it will simply ignore the recommendations of the Calman Commission.

50

The Tin Man,

03/06/2009 09:23:39
Absolute affront to the people of scotland from the unionist spiv crooks cabal suggesting that scottish government gets revenues raised in scotland and borrowing powers independence now scottish fishing must be controlled by the EU and companies in london must move to scotland now soar alba.
51

noswod,

Honestas 03/06/2009 09:33:30
The Scottish Budget will go doon tae £25bn from £33bn and then doon tae £20bn. Get it in tae yer heed the Barnett Formular gives us £1,610 pa per heed mair than the rest O Britain. Its great free money. Taking away the barnett formular will give Scotland the biggest haircut its ever had. The dependency Culture will have to stop as we will be bust aye that means yoous Methadrone users theres nay langer a £100m free clip O dope frae you and the Middle and Upper Quango classes your stipends frae Government will be stopped as well so its goodbye tae the the word Audi or BMW. An independent Scotland means Tax at 80% before the problem of what tae do with the wee debt ootstanding created by the outstanding business leaders of their generation on RBS and HBOS.
52

Ewan Randall,

03/06/2009 09:36:44
(#36) – (Boab1) – Is it not the case that at this time the Scottish government could in theory spend the money allocated to Scotland on numerous projects in a manner which could give the impression of a lack of funding at times and so build impetus within the mindset for greater control over those resources we have been made very aware lately and seem just out of our reach at present?
53

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/06/2009 09:45:50
The Unionists have a death wish. Why would the Libdems support this proposal.

Salmond will make hay with this.
54

ecosseman,

FACTS NOT PROPAGANDA 03/06/2009 09:53:41
FACT-SCOTLAND PAYS LONDON FAR MORE THAN WE GET BACK

PROPAGANDA-WE NEED LONDON.

VOTE SNP

END OF STORY.

ROLL ON THE ELECTION!
55

Warden Resurrected,

03/06/2009 10:07:32
59- This is the very thing we have come to expect from this Scottish Government. They are not stupid they have learned their sly crafts well. I’ll tell you of the ideal way of undermining reputations, first you get a member of the public coming and asking if you could get something done about a problem at a school which looks as if it has occurred due to funding. The opposition MSP brings it up in parliament, trusting the member of the public, as they are a parent of a pupil at the school, only to find the problem has no basis in fact. The opposition looks petty and incompetent, incompetent is right as they could have found the facts on the internet or questions to the school direct before posing the question, but still a set up. How many more ways could a government use this trick.
56

S.M.D.,

EH 03/06/2009 10:18:50
"The Scotsman understands the commission will reject any new tax-raising powers for Holyrood or assigning Scotland's share of the oil and gas revenues directly to the Scottish Government."

What this means is, that Unionist party's have decided to keep Scotlands assets to themselves!
If they aren't prepared to give the revenue from oil back to Scotand, then we need a referendum NOW.
At least in an independent Scotland any oil revenue would stay in Scotland and would be able to be used for urgently needed public service [those, which in particular Labour is campaining about, that the SNP haven't fulfilled-only because they have had to pay for the trams, which were never planned in the snp budget,but all other party's insisted on the £600mill + black hole ...just like the parliament,had to be,but there could have been much cheaper and better options.]

Let's just hope, that folk will be voting tomorrow with their feet and let those unionist thieves know, where they should be.

57

,

03/06/2009 10:19:04
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58

Ewan Randall,

03/06/2009 10:23:24
(#49) – (IndependentlyInclined) – Can you please detail for me from where your beliefs for the things you have highlighted have come from?
59

,

03/06/2009 10:25:55
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60

Dún Aenghus,

03/06/2009 10:27:07
Scottish Freedom.......NOW!
61

,

03/06/2009 10:43:06
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62

The Strategist,

03/06/2009 10:46:58
#68

Correct ... the SNP did want to fund the new bridge from existing budgets until Labour economic incompetence (or deliberate action) led to the budgets having to be cut.
63

Ewan Randall,

03/06/2009 10:55:36
(#70) – (The Strategist) – Can you tell me what came first the SNPs plans for funding the bridge or the economic downturn?

Which deliberate actions could you be talking about?
64

The Tin Man,

03/06/2009 10:58:03
#70 Strategist

I though they had announced the cost & funding of a new bridge using a non-existant, borrowed budget. Then they asked the people they intended borrowing the money from if they could get it, and at what rate. Then they changed their minds.

They will use SFT Ltd funding thats not for profit with an oil fund in norway that was stolen instead of london spivs soar alba.
65

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 03/06/2009 10:59:28
Joe,Relugus Road 03/06/2009 10:31:30
"Does the SNP think our heads button-up at the back?"

No! but yours obviously does.
66

,

03/06/2009 11:03:52
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67

,

03/06/2009 11:09:40
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68

Gordon, Canonmills,

03/06/2009 11:10:18
Great scheme (or should that be scam?)!

So Westmonster would be prepared to let Scotland run up an overdraft by lending us back the monies we have already sent South in taxes and oil revenue?

Thereby, instead of using our own income to finance Scottish projects, we become indebted to London.

Sounds like some kind of protection racket!

INDEPENDENCE ASAP!
69

frank mcbride,

lusitania 03/06/2009 11:36:52
#71, ER.

If the report of the FSA to the Westminster Government, in 2004, are to be believed, the makings of the Financial Crisis came first........but went unreported to neither Parliament nor the electorate.

In 2004, the FSA reported, to the Westminster Government, that BOTH NR and HBOS were creating an unsustainable lending book, and given some adverse situations would collapse; as we know this happened.

So, in answer to your question, the Westminster Government, aware of the precarious situation of a number of UK financial institutions, failed to take appropriate action which precipitated the financial meltdown which we are, all, now experiencing.

Why was this report only carried on Sky on Friday 29 May 2009..............5 YEARS AFTER THE FSA findings?
70

BIG EYE,

Paisley 03/06/2009 11:37:47
Result of the Unionist Calman Commission

1.We will keep your oil and all your wealth
2 We will cut millions off your budget.

No surprises there then!

Fortunately Scotland will be well gone before all this happens.

Roll on the elections

By Gordon, stay down south after tomorrow you are not welcome in Scotland
71

Ewan Randall,

03/06/2009 12:02:12
(#77) – (frank mcbride) – How long was it between the potential crisis as explained by you and the indications publically seen regarding the economic downturn?

How does this then fit in with what the strategist was saying?
72

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/06/2009 12:17:22
68 Joe

I honestly think you are deranged.
73

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/06/2009 12:20:31
Looks like Calman is going to tip the balance even more in favour of independence.
74

Ewan Randall,

03/06/2009 12:20:47
(#77) – (frank mcbride) – This report by the FSA, did it actually stipulate the specific direction from which the potential danger would ultimately culminate from and create the credit crunch?
75

Tartan Viking,

03/06/2009 12:29:31
#68 Relugas Joe,

Your post has an error in it. Allow me to correct it as follows;-

"Get these chancers out! Scotland is heading into ridicule. Does LYEBOUR think our heads button-up at the back"
76

Tartan Viking,

03/06/2009 12:35:03
Anyway Joe. I trust you are a Tory boy because if you are one of these wee Lyebour creeps you are in the minority my friend. By my calculation there is about 3 Lyebour supporters left in Scotland, including Woofy, Smee and the Creature.

Hold on, the first and last one are the same person. Down to 2 now.
77

,

03/06/2009 12:50:22
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78

Jo'Burg Jock,

South Africa 03/06/2009 13:08:25
WhiteSettler,In the Capital, stealin' your wimmin and taking yo 03/06/2009 12:50:22

I have absolutely no idea - why.

Just as I have no idea why any of the others make up this commission.

However I am not in the least surprised, because this is just normal behaviour for the unionists and their contempt for the long suffering Scottish population.

79

frank mcbride,

lusitania 03/06/2009 13:42:55
#82, ER.

My understanding is that the FSA report stated that their (NR & HBOS) lending policies left them in a very perilous state if there was any sort of economic downturn; not necessarily a catastrophic one.

This being the case, and this is (educated) speculation on my part, did the Blair/Brown Government deliberately ignore this warning?
NuLabour's subsequent actions, particulary with respect to these banks, IMO, would suggest that this was the case.

#79, ER.

The SG was committed to a new Forth crossing using Public Funding before the present economic crises hit.

It requested an early release of funds from Westminster, but said that it would proceed regardless of Westminster's response; the reason for this request was to spread the cost over, ideally 20yrs., at best repayment terms, was to allow its other infrastucture priorities to be taken forward as speedily as possible.

The timing of the financial collapse is irrelevant as the crossing is going to be built, whether allocations came from a 3yrs cycle, or a 20yrs cycle.

A problem for the SG now, is the top-slicing of its Budget by Westminster which will require the SG to delay some of its planned, essential, infrastructure projects.

I hope this answers your question as I was unclear as to what you were asking.
80

Scotfree,

Erskine 03/06/2009 13:46:33
Grant Scotland Independence and Scrap the Union says Scotfree!
81

bluepict,

03/06/2009 14:04:16
Run up debt to the Westminster Government? What,are they mad? Meanwhile all of Scotlands oil revenues go straight into Westminster's coffers?
They are barking mad!

And there it is,English MP's in Westminster with their hands on our purse strings,deciding what we are allowed to have,or not have!

The question I have to ask is, how long will Scots remain mesmerised by English propaganda before realising that thier future is in their own hands? A simple vote will do the trick.We must regain controle of our future!

Its well time to wake up and take the country back, and be confident in Scottish leadership once more.Currently the only Political party that puts Scotland first is the SNP.All the others are traitors who have been happy to sell Scotland out to Westminster. Its time to take back what is ours.

Roll on Independence!
82

Electric Hermit,

03/06/2009 14:22:26
60
connaughtboy

"Why would the Libdems support this proposal."

Docile obedience.
83

Electric Hermit,

03/06/2009 14:23:32
88
Scotfree

"Grant Scotland Independence..."

Independence is not "granted". It is taken.
84

Richard,

West Lothian 03/06/2009 14:26:11
All revenues raised in Scotland, stay in Scotland, nothing less!
85

Ewan Randall,

03/06/2009 14:43:33
(#87) – (frank mcbride) – Did the FSA stipulate any other financial institutions, which have been similarly in trouble, as being in a perilous state previously to the event?

Do you think that Blair/Brown might have deliberately ignored the warnings you talk of due to healthy profits these institutions might have made, and were unaware of the possible direction the threat might come from?


Though I understand where you are coming from over the bridge funding I feel that I must ask two questions over it, if you are a British government how can you make a loan to a Scottish government for monies Scotland would make for the exchequer over a number of years when that Scottish government are trying to make Scotland independent?

If you are a nationalist then where is your faith in Scotland becoming independent soon if you are asking for monies you hope to have earned for the exchequer over a number of years, considering all of that oil money which is expected?
86

TWC,

exLabour 03/06/2009 14:56:46
92 Richard, AAgreed but we need to add those taxes of Scots paid directly to English Tax offices.
87

Iainbroch,

03/06/2009 15:21:24
Grant Scotland Independence - Scrap the Union!
88

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/06/2009 15:22:12
"Grant Scotland an overdraft and scrap Barnett"

Is that it? After all these months? How deeply embarrassing for the Unionists, particularly the Libdems.
89

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/06/2009 15:23:44
I can't see many ordinary Scots signing up to this idea, only the Quisling Scorched Earthers in our political ranks.
90

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 03/06/2009 15:24:50
If this is an accurate precis of Calman, it's the perfect economic Business Case for independence.
91

The Tin Man,

03/06/2009 15:44:19
#96

Holyrood has no need to borrow a penny from Westminster - we have SFT Ltd, and an internet chat-room for formulating the future powers of MSPs. Soar Alba.
92

Geomac 1,

Scotland 03/06/2009 16:03:47
Heaven help us!!! yet another bunch of politicians being allowed to incur further debt in the name of the taxpayer. I despair! Councils can run up debt, Westminster can run up debt (and boy have they done so!!) and now Calman is proposing Hollywood can run up debt.
I thought that debt was bad - this country has been running of debt for years and now another source of debt.
Sheer madness!!!
93

Elephant,

Linlithgow 03/06/2009 16:08:00
So THIS is where you all are today. 92 & 94. If all revenue raised in Scotland stayed in Scotland, I presume you'd want that raised in the other nations to stay there too... which worries me. Take oil & gas revs - if Scottish produced UK oil and gas netted 10bn in taxes for the treasury last year and is predicted to net 5bn this year... at this level this so-called 'major industry' contributes less to the treasury coffers per year than the South East of England pays in residential stamp duty per year. When I think of the net-benefit the social security & tax credit system accords the average Scot, you'll need a pretty big new revenue stream to fill the gap. Independence arguments should not be based on money, 'cause the sums simply don't add up in a positive sense.
94

HughB,

Edinburgh 03/06/2009 16:19:17
This whole Calman thing was set up by a flawed PM, and flawed chancellor, a flawed government, and a flawed political system.

Therefore, by definition, Calman is also flawed.

Westminster, by it's own actions, no longer has authority over any of the nations which are supposed to be under it's control, and has therefore already caused the breakup of the union.

No point in letting GB or any of his cronies fiddle around with the Scottish economy any more.

Enough is enough.

Please complete this statement:

Take your Calman report and........

95

Richard,

West Lothian 03/06/2009 16:48:24

Elephant,
Linlithgow

So the sums don't add up do they, proof please?
96

,

03/06/2009 17:01:18
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
97

frank mcbride,

lusitania 03/06/2009 17:44:40
#93, ER.

My reading of it is that the FSA highlighted these 2 banks. I don't know whether others were flagged to a lesser degree.

It was therir lending policies that were flagged up as being problematic. I do, indeed, believe that Brown & Blair chose to ignore the warning but, given the response, to the colapse, I'm inclined to believe that their reason, for ignoring the FSA's red flags, was more sinister - the nationalisation of NR and the shotgun marriage of HBOS.

I have every faith in the immenent reality of an Independent Scotland.

If Westminster had acceded to the SG's reasonable request then, come Independence, any outstanding dues would be worked out in the dissolution settlement.
98

Time to Show Courage,

03/06/2009 17:53:18
The unionists must really have a death wish. We are right in the middle of a recession, primarily unionist MPs are robbing the state with impunity, the current Westmonster government is falling like a house of cards, and the Calman Comissionannounce that they want to cut Scotland's budget and, in return, allow them to borrow their own tax and oil revenues from London??

You couldn't make this up!!! LMFHO.

Sit back and enjoy, Mr Salmonmd. These clowns are doing a fantastic job without your help.

Talk about lemmings???
99

frank mcbride,

lusitania 03/06/2009 17:54:50
#101, elephant.

The best official balance sheet we have for Scottish income & expenditure, although deeply flawed, is GERS.

Over all, GERS suggests that Scotland's finances would be generally in balance.

The notion that there would be some enormous black hole is a figment of the imagination of the Unionist Alliance, particularly NuLabour, based on the extraordinary economic projections of Arthur Midwinter; no reliable source suggest anything remotely close to the picture which Midwinter paints.
100

scotscanadian,

Waterloo, 03/06/2009 17:57:13
Scotland, It's time to get off your knees and stand on your own two feet and take your place among the independent nations of the world. Take responsibility for ALL your income and expenses, regardless of where they come from. If they are generated in Scotland a Scottish Government should have control. Here In Canada we have many American and foreigned owned companies but the taxes they raise stay in Canada. Why should Scotland be any different?
Yes an independent Scottish Government will make mistakes and there may be hardships but the action they take to correct them, will be taken only in the interests of the Scottish nation.
I have visited many small independent countries which were previously part of the British Empire, many of them much poorer than an independent Scotland would be
but no matter how poor I never found any who wanted to go back to being governed from London.
Mahatma Gandhi said "Better a poor self government than a good foreign one"
101

Time to Show Courage,

03/06/2009 18:00:38
Mr Salmond,
If you don't manage to rip the unionist monsters to shreds with this, I will be astonished. What an unbelieveably arrogant outcome from the unionist Calman cabal.

Then they wonder why the Scottish people flock to the SNP? They must think us Scots are completely unable to see what their agenda is. Do they honestly think that we are so politically naiive? Or are they genuinely unaware of the effect that this proposal is going to have on the Scottish electorate's voting intentions?

Either way, bring it on. We take another step closer every time they step in to the frame. Independence is looking inevitable.
102

The Tin Man,

03/06/2009 18:02:32
#107 frank

According to the National Conversation, Scotland's finances are controlled by means of invisible threads, pulled by The People Who Are Really In Charge. Minor tinkering will make no difference. Soar Alaba.
103

Faux Cul,

03/06/2009 19:08:37
Good day to dup bad news on us in Scotland by Calman?
104

Ewan Randall,

03/06/2009 19:08:42
(#105) – (frank mcbride) – Can you please expand on your beliefs on why you think there were more sinister reasons behind the ignoring the FSAs red flags?

What indications that you have found show you there is a possibility of something more sinister?
105

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 03/06/2009 19:14:12
"The Scotsman has been told most members of the commission felt that handing over fluctuating oil and gas revenue and tax-raising powers would create 'unacceptable instability' in Scotland."

Who do the members of the Calman Commission think we are?! Presumably Englishmen can handle the instability created by handling Scotland's oil and gas revenues but Scots cannot? Does the Calman Commission think we Scots are stupid? This is a child-like ploy to keep Scotland's rightful inheritance out of the hands of Scots. For me, this is the final straw. I, Caora Dubh, hereby do swear to fight the governance of Scotland by the Westminster Government with every means at my disposal, until Scotland is free of these wretched, dirty double-dealing, shifty politicians. I, Caora Dubh, hereby do swear to fight with all means at my disposal for the freedom of Scotland/Alba from any and all forms of foreign control.

SAOR ALBA!
106

FTH22inarow,

03/06/2009 20:17:52
Independence now, why should we prop up England, sorry England I mean London and the Home Counties.
107

Fitba Krazy,

03/06/2009 20:40:51
The people of Scotland should be the ones who decide how Scotland will be run. This attempt by the Westminster party controllers to stifle true democracy yet again in Scotland is yet more typical undermining of democracy for Scotland. I wish the people of Scotland to see through this nonsense which is a scheme to hang onto Scotland's wealth for the benefit of the London plutocracy and their paid sycophants as they attempt to thwart us yet again from running our own country without any "help" from the Westminster puppets.

We should tell them all to where to go, and soon, before there is little left after their rampant pillaging.
108

Phil C,

03/06/2009 20:46:23
F**k all this cr*p!!!!

No subsidies, No cashback. Independence now!!
109

Willie Mor,

03/06/2009 21:36:38
Who is Calman?

What authority does he have to say what Scotland should have from London and what Scotland shouldn't have.

Let no man, not even the great Calman stand in the path of a nation deciding what it wants.

The un-elected Gordon Brown is going to get that message tommorow, and if he continues to frustrate the democratic will of the people, then the people will take what they are entitled to.

Time to rid this country of the corrupt and rotten Labour party.



110

Soloman,

Stirling 03/06/2009 22:52:15
No doubt Scotland will get a loan from one of the Westminster Nationalised Banks!

X VOTE SNP X

X INDEPENDENCE FROM WESTMINSTER X
111

Iainbroch,

03/06/2009 23:18:36
RE113

Ofshore banking accounts where money from the RBS, HBOS nad The Northern Rock and others has been syphoned!

A practice that the FSA turned a convenient blind eye to! A practice that the Treasury has pretty much sactioned and practice that the govt did not really want to question to much due to all those millionaire backers and ofcourse using ofshore bank accounts something that several Labour cabinet memebers and backbenchers have become well acquainted with!

Have you never wondered why Labour has been slothful about closing off tax loopholes even to the extent of annoying President Barack Obama? So crooked they were willing to icur the wrath of the President of the USA.
112

Iainbroch,

03/06/2009 23:20:28
RE 113

MONEY JUST DOESN'T TALK - IT WALKS UP TO YOU AND SCREAMS AT YOU - THEN APPLIES A KICK WHERE IT HURTS!
113

urchin,

04/06/2009 07:08:15
Eh! Marian your onto it.
114

Charley,

you rope 29/06/2009 00:20:30
um...I need to see facts...the nats are blinded. The English aren't trying to stiff us, they are as blind and dumb as we all are to how the hell this global economy works..I do not believe salmond and his brown shirts at the mo. to be honest. They want statues in town squares.....book deals and movies..

 

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