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Local income tax doesn't add up, say experts



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Published Date: 13 July 2008
By Terry Murden
THE Scottish Government's plans for a local income tax to replace council tax have been dealt a serious blow by the nation's accountants.




The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS) has claimed that the system would hurt business and create tensions between Scotland and England.

David Wood, executive director at ICAS, said: "At the moment, we do not see it as w
orkable. We would be happy to talk to the Scottish Government to make it work."

The institute added that there were serious anomalies, such as what a person living in England but working in Scotland would have to do.

Employers' organisation CBI Scotland has claimed that the plans would cause extra costs. They have also claimed it would make it tougher for Scots firms to recruit employees from England, who could face higher tax.

London and Edinburgh have clashed over what would happen to the £400m of council tax benefit which Scotland receives from central UK coffers to help the worse-off pay council tax.

The SNP administration at Holyrood have argued that Scotland should still receive the cash to help with the costs of local income tax, while Whitehall has argued that if the council tax is no longer to be levied the benefit is no longer needed.





The full article contains 219 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 July 2008 11:29 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Council tax
 
1

The Tin Man,

13/07/2008 08:27:52
But the 3% rate is a great big tax cut, but with no cuts to local services. Also, a 3% LIT rate would never rocket-up in future years like the council tax. It will always be 3%, or less.

...And don't forget that the 'Hootsmon' is a unionist propoganda machine, and general slaggings for the 'so-called-journalist' for this 'so-called-story'. All accountants are in the hands of the Westminster government.
2

Jimmy the Pie,

13/07/2008 08:46:20
Why is the Hootsmon still running this drivel???

Where is their own phoney Professor Arthur Middwhatever?

3

The Tin Man,

13/07/2008 08:50:04
Thanks Jimmy, I feel better now.
4

druidh,

edinburgh 13/07/2008 08:59:25
"Employers' organisation CBI Scotland has claimed that the plans would cause extra costs. They have also claimed it would make it tougher for Scots firms to recruit employees from England, who could face higher tax
"

"Higher tax"?, where. Or should that read "different, fairer tax".
5

Fifi la Bonbon,

13/07/2008 09:15:46
Accountants? Traitors more like!!!
6

Richardinho,

13/07/2008 09:20:41
How is it possible that the Local income tax will both mean higher taxes AND less tax take? This doesn't make any sense, yet this is what it's detractors are asking us to believe.
7

The Tin Man,

13/07/2008 09:30:44
#5

Thanks Fifi, I feel better now.
8

The Tin Man,

13/07/2008 09:31:43
#6

Possibly because 20% of the population would be taken out of the tax system (OAP's).
9

Sedov,

Scotland 13/07/2008 09:39:11
#1 Here we go again, The Tin Man is rusty at the seams. These NATS are so obsessed that their party is always right that they blame the Scotsman if there is any question mark over their policies and dodgy arithmetic. My advice to the Salmond worshippers is - go back to your leaders and get on to them for not getting it right and stop forever blaming the press.
10

It wassnae me,

13/07/2008 09:45:45
#6

Because LIT is dependent on the £400mil rebate that applied to the Council Tax remaining in place. Westminster have already told the SNP that rebate applied to the Council Tax system and does not apply to LIT. What the SNP need to realise is that if their new LIT means more people pay less (which is constantly been the sales pitch on LIT), then the tax rebate from Westminster will either reduce significantly or completely disappear. If after that the LIT numbers don't stack up, as seems to be the current case, the LIT tax rate of 3% will need to go up, probably to 5%, meaning alot more people will pay more, maybe even the majority.

The SNP have been coming up with good ideas over the last 12 months. Their problem is these ideas are not properly thought out.
11

LEAL,

13/07/2008 09:56:40
LIT is a fairer way to pay for local services than what we have at present.However I think it will be very difficult to implement until we have full fiscal autonomy.
12

snoozyowl,

Wales 13/07/2008 10:00:24
The real problem now, that no one will admit, is that there is just not enough money at local level to do all that's perceived to be needed and pay very generous salaries and benefits to local government employees. What's needed to solve this is a hefty council tax (for ease of collectability and difficulty of avoidance) AND a local income tax of say 3%. Then there would be enough cash for all the ambitions of those in local government. Both sources would of course be forced to their almost bearable limits, but that's taxation. Or, just maybe, local government could adjust its expectations to economic reality rather than social ideology? Well, no, that's not going to happen.
13

The Tin Man,

13/07/2008 10:04:07
#9 Sedovka

I see that the seeds of sarcasm are falling on a barren field.
14

The Tin Man,

13/07/2008 10:05:57
#11 solis etc.

Thanks, I feel better now.
15

Roy,

13/07/2008 10:16:06
I used to be pert - now I'm an ex-pert.
16

Kaytoc,

13/07/2008 10:46:14
David Wood, executive director at ICAS, said: "At the moment, we do not see it as workable. We would be happy to talk to the Scottish Government to make it work."
So, they admit it can work.

"The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS) has claimed that the system would hurt business and create tensions between Scotland and England."
Bull. There are businesses that operate in all fifty states here. No tension between states.

"The institute added that there were serious anomalies, such as what a person living in England but working in Scotland would have to do."
I live in Maryland and work in West Virginia. My employer submits the taxes they withhold to my state of residence, Maryland.
Since the union is just one big happy family, what's the problem?
17

Edward,

13/07/2008 10:46:47
Love the what if's
'what a person living in England but working in Scotland would have to do'
Duh, now remember they are accountants right!
For tax purposes, its my home address that I get sent tax forms etc, so if Im living in England, thats where I pay my tax. If I live in Scotland, that will be where I pay my tax. Not rocket science!
18

Edward,

13/07/2008 10:51:33
'Employers' organisation CBI Scotland has claimed that the plans would cause extra costs. They have also claimed it would make it tougher for Scots firms to recruit employees from England, who could face higher tax'
Yes CBI Scotland that well known non political organisation - not!
Now let me see If I was living in England and was offered a job in Scotland, then I would have to be prepared to move. I would be prepared to move as the package on offer would be better than Im gettong in England. Ah but wait a minute if I moved to Scotland I would be paying an exra 3p in the pound tax..hmm difficult one that. But then again I would be earning a lot more and could easily afford it!
19

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 10:52:18
I thought this article was published 2 weeks ago?

You have to admire this paper, its like a pendulum in that one day it is partially printing positive SNP articles then the next day does out for the kill, did Goerge Foulkes have a quote on this article ? because he has quoted on just about every other article on this website, who does he think he is ? Andrew Marr ??
20

lulach mac gille coemgain,

13/07/2008 10:54:18
This looks like quite a positive outlook for Scotland and her ability to act independently with the The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS) offering . . .

”We would be happy to talk to the Scottish Government to make it work."
21

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 13/07/2008 10:56:51
Jimmie the Pie, 'cause there's a by-election on and any mince will do.
22

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 13/07/2008 10:56:53
Jimmie the Pie, 'cause there's a by-election on and any mince will do.
23

John PM,

Edinburgh, Scotland 13/07/2008 11:14:49
Boll*x. Aren't the Scotsman journos sick of propping up an unfair sytem and doing their country down? Their heroes (no, really!) the Lib Dems support an LIT as well. Are they away with it as well? No?

Tories don't support LIT because they are the party of the rich. Labour sold their soul to get votes then did SFA in power because they didn't have any policies left. All tax should be based on income.
24

Linda,

Edinburgh 13/07/2008 11:16:42
How many times has Scotsman newspapers run this story. Its like reading Pravda and their anti SNP stance is not working.
Check out Sunday Herald's business pages for story on disastrous performance by Johnston Press (shares down from £5.62 to 33p) which is going to result in further job losses and possible take over.
25

Jimmy the Pie,

13/07/2008 11:24:45
Broon can't lower himself to visit Glasgow East/South as he is a world statesman!

Went to a £1000/head New Labour Sleaze fundraising meal

He told the OPEC members to increase production, and consequently bring down prices.

Friday crude prices highest ever!

He told Nato members to increase their troop numbers in Afghanistan.

Totally ignored.

Did a deal with Russia re sanctions against Zimbabwe.

Russia and China veto sanctions.

Nationalised Northern Rock to the tune of £150 BILLION
to stabilise the market.

Now more volatile than ever!

Yes, just like Wendy - A towering intellect!!!
God help us
26

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 13/07/2008 11:48:04
Could the reverse not also apply?

IF, an LIT were to be introduced in Scotland, and it was eventually found to be less expensive than the ever increasing large sums of Council Tax paid in England and Wales, then surely the opposite would also apply, and it would be much easier to recruit workers from elsehwere in Britain?

As for the alleged anomaly about "those living in England but working in Scotland"? I wonder how many in number we are talking about? Hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands? Could it be that ICAS are simply trying to protect the tax affairs of a relatively small number of exceptionally wealthy people who are in this fortunate position?

27

Richardinho,

13/07/2008 11:51:52
'Possibly because 20% of the population would be taken out of the tax system (OAP's).'

What you mean is that it will be lower taxes for them.
28

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 12:16:20
They have just pulled the Salmond thread because of a mental poster posting rude stuff on sex in the park and stuff, thanks ciderman..
29

subrosa,

13/07/2008 12:16:35
Oh here we go. Removal of comments from the headline article. Anyway there's a 'head to head' with the 4 main parties on BBC Politics Show at 12.30 (ten minutes) if anyone's interested.
30

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 12:20:11
#30

Goody, seems like a real treat..

#31 Meths, Dont thank him just pitty the fool..
31

MtnKat,

13/07/2008 12:22:38
Spook,
They need to pull the 'article' as well. It's nothing more than Barnes indulging in his juvenile attempt at propaganda that Metalions so succinctly outed with his timely reminder that the donation has cross party support.
32

MtnKat,

13/07/2008 12:24:21
sorry, MetHlions.
It's an '05 Chassagne, btw.
33

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 12:27:34
#33 MtnKat

You may have a point..


A Scottish Government spokeswoman said: "The Scottish Islamic Foundation was established with enormous goodwill and support on a cross-party, cross-community and inter-faith basis."

Meths.."oh well"
34

Home Rule for England,

England 13/07/2008 12:44:38
# 17 Kaytoc

"Since the union is just one big happy family, what's the problem?"

Kaytoc, please don't say things like that. I nearly fell off my chair laughing!
35

Home Rule for England,

England 13/07/2008 12:48:25
Here's a solution. England has her own English Parliament/English Government/English Minister and we also replace the council tax with a local income tax. Problem solved. Better still, England and Scotland become independent.
36

Power in a Union,

Scotland 13/07/2008 12:48:28
The flaws of the SNP "Local Income Tax" policy are many:
1. It is not local - it is centrally set.
2. If set at 3p in the pound it will have a shortfall in yield of hundreds of millions of pounds resulting in either cuts in local government services or cuts in other Scottish Government funded services to plug this gap. Alternatively the tax take would need to increase to around 5 or 6p in the pound.
3. Contrary to some of the claims OAP's will not be exempt, neither will students who pay income tax.
4. It may also act as a disincentive for businesses locate in Scotlands.
5. The very wealthy will not pay on their investment income.

These are just a few of the flaws.
37

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 13/07/2008 12:50:44
Unionist troll at 10,

"Westminster have already told the SNP that rebate applied to the Council Tax system and does not apply to LIT."

The 400M belongs to the Scottish grant. If it is taken out then it is being stolen from Scotland. How any Scot can defend taking this money from fellow Scots only show their abject political slavery. Imagine jumping for joy because your next door neighbour is given your car.

What madness. Oh Scotland, how did we get into this mess?
38

The Tin Man,

13/07/2008 13:33:32
When is the exec going to get together with the local councils and come up with plans for the service cuts that will be required with a 3% LIT rate?
39

,

13/07/2008 13:34:07
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40

The Tin Man,

13/07/2008 13:36:18
#41 Ciderman

Please go and have your crisis somewhere else.
41

George Mackay,

Dundee 13/07/2008 13:39:37
Swinney the donkey just won't take no for an answer. Shrek should rein him in before it gets too late.
42

Richardinho,

13/07/2008 14:19:25
"2. If set at 3p in the pound it will have a shortfall in yield of hundreds of millions of pounds resulting in either cuts in local government services or cuts in other Scottish Government funded services to plug this gap.

4. It may also act as a disincentive for businesses locate in Scotlands."

Once again, how can LIT raise less tax AND result in higher taxes for everyone?
43

Power in a Union,

13/07/2008 14:47:57
Richardhinho obviously fails to grasp that the LIT will have losers, the number of course depends on at what rate it is set. If it is set at a rate that covers the current Council Tax yield, then of course the losers will be far more than claimed by the SNP Government. If set at the rate that they propose the number of losers will be fewer, and hence the need for cuts in services.

As for businesses choosing not to locate, they would face the fact that they would have a number of employees paying higher income tax if based in Scotland as opposed to England, and likely to seek a higher salary to compensate. Also, they would have additional costs of administering the Nat Tax, as well as the uncertainty that even if initially raised at 3p in the pound that it could rise significantly higher.

The question that Richardinho should ask himself is if the LIT is a tax cut, as claimed by the SNP, then where are the public service cuts going to fall to pay for the tax cut.
44

The Tin Man,

13/07/2008 15:26:21
#45 Rich

It is similar to giving all pensioners who are not working a 100% CT rebate, and passing the resulting shortfall onto everyone else's CT bill. Possibly a good thing, but it is something that could be done a lot quicker than introducing a LIT.

Also, the very wealthy, who pay substantial CT bills may find themselves in a situation where they can juggle their income between salary and dividend, to avoid getting whacked by LIT.

However, LIT may well be fairer, but the 3% rate is unrealistic.
45

Jwil,

13/07/2008 15:49:45
"The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS) has claimed that the system would hurt business and create tensions between Scotland and England."


Not yet another group slagging off the LIT. Its getting a bit boring. I hope the SNP will press on regardless of these so called "experts".

The interests of England have been supported in the past to the detriment of Scottish interests. Now the boots on the other foot. The Scottish government should be looking after Scottish interests first and foremost.

We know that the English are going to demand the fairer LIT once its instituted and shown to be fairer, just as they are hollering about prescription charges and free care for the elderly. That's Gordon Browm's problem.
46

Legacy,

13/07/2008 15:55:11
Unpaid Council Tax for 2006/07 amounts to over One Hundred and Ten Million Pounds, that's enough reason to get rid of the Iniquitous Council Tax, which is due to Double Again in the next Ten Years.
Arrears Forecast with LIT:
Practically NIL!
It don't take an Accountant to work out that one surely.
47

Geomac 1,

Scotland 13/07/2008 16:22:52
"Local" income tax never has and never will add up.
If LIT is introduced prepare for the mass exodus!!
48

Iain's,

Barcelona 13/07/2008 16:39:00
David Wood, MA, FCA. No surprise there then. He is an English Chartered Accountant!

Like any Englishman, who sat the much easier English CA exams, he wants to keep Scotland in the Empire.

There is no problem with local income tax. It used to be Tory AND Liberal policy.

He is correct in saying thaty it will cause tensions between England and Scotland, especially when the English find that, once again, they are paying twice the rate of what was once called council tax.

It is possible to reduce Council tax. My last council tax bill was €175 p.a. for a 4 bedroom, three bathroom flat.
Public services in this town are just as good, if not better, than in the UK. It is amazing if you open your mind to lower taxes.

But of course Chartered Accountants live off the most expensive and complicated tax system in the world. It is in their interests to keep things that way.

The sooner the UK has US style laws to protect us against crooked accountants, etc., etc.

49

Iain's,

13/07/2008 16:42:15
p.s.

The institute added that there were serious anomalies, such as what a person living in England but working in Scotland would have to do.

At present there are anomalies if you live in Scotland, and work in England. You pay council tax on your house in Scotland and never use it. So what!
50

scottishsteve,

scotland 13/07/2008 16:46:16
Live in Scotland and work in England.
51

The Tin Man,

13/07/2008 17:00:37
#51 Iain's

Intresting... I though that local taxes were higher in Spain than the UK?
52

,

13/07/2008 17:10:52
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53

b.allan,

SCOTLAND 13/07/2008 17:20:39
Why is this garbage on the front page along with story about Salmond's alleged cronyism yet not even a whisper about the £500000 expenses of Mr Marshall or any other corruption in the LIEbour party (so many to choose from at present)? i wish this paper would stop fighting LIEbour's by election for them.
Is SoS running scared LIEbour might accuse them of pro SNP bias or something? Really, it's getting tiresome...
54

,

13/07/2008 17:34:38
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55

Conan the Librarian™,

13/07/2008 17:43:12
57
And you know they were more deserving?

Gie us the details then.
56

,

13/07/2008 17:44:21
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57

Conan the Librarian™,

13/07/2008 17:51:20
Baby Jebus the trolls they multiply...

Long time no see Dane.

Still hanging about McDonald Road?
58

,

13/07/2008 18:04:49
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59

Conan the Librarian™,

13/07/2008 18:15:14
61
Dane
Had a pint in the Hopetoun recently?
60

Saor Alba-Free Scotland,

Scotland 13/07/2008 18:17:04
That Candy-man guy is all over the Herald like a rash.











Saor Alba
61

,

13/07/2008 18:23:00
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62

The Strategist,

13/07/2008 18:25:10
Accountants lack passion, vision and the ability to think strategically.. Sensibly we should never ask them for an opinion on anything.
63

Saor Alba-Free Scotland,

13/07/2008 18:26:48
http://www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinion/display.var.2392754.0.0.php

Saor Alba
64

Conan the Librarian™,

13/07/2008 18:35:26
64
I agree, trying to cure the symptoms, not the disease.

65
Unless it's about money.
65

Richardinho,

13/07/2008 18:36:02
#46 Actually it is the opponents of LIT who have failed to grasp that fact. I understand that LIT will have winners and losers. The detractors who say LIT will lead to higher taxes (implying that everyone will pay more) are either being dishonest or just plain stupid.

What is undeniable however is that if the overall tax take is going to be less, then overall, people will be paying less tax.
66

,

13/07/2008 18:41:02
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67

Richardinho,

13/07/2008 18:43:09
"Also, the very wealthy, who pay substantial CT bills may find themselves in a situation where they can juggle their income between salary and dividend, to avoid getting whacked by LIT."

The very wealthy will always find ways of avoiding paying tax. That's a sad reality. They can afford accountants and lawyers to look for loopholes, they can live abroad for a certain amount of time every year, and a thousand other tricks.
68

Ewan Kerr - Juans brother,

13/07/2008 18:51:22
#69 - Number 6 - That would be the same Kids your government in Westminster and the LAbour party radicalised through unjust wars and maimed relatives?

Well done. Your the spanner of the year.
69

,

13/07/2008 19:10:36
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70

Ewan Kerr - Juans brother,

13/07/2008 19:17:56
#72 - What lines would they be? Labour backed an illegal war which has cost millions of lives, cost many billions and was purely to get their hands on oil supply.

I can't see any reason why a young arab from govan may become radicalised......

If any measure creates more understanding instead of warped Ideology(number 6, take note...) then I am all for it.

But your approach is start a fire and expect reward for helping to put it out!

71

,

13/07/2008 19:29:29
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72

,

13/07/2008 19:35:24
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73

Miss H,

13/07/2008 19:44:29
Seems like I have missed a high old time on the Scotsman board today.

Come in number six - your time is up. Bashir Maan one of Salmond's cronies? Fifty words:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
74

,

13/07/2008 19:50:06
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75

Ma Maw Ma Paw un thu dug r eastend urs,

13/07/2008 20:14:09
77

you were payed off by Your-more stores you cheapo soz u wurrs
76

,

13/07/2008 20:19:03
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77

Pink Sombrero,

13/07/2008 20:26:11
79. Hi Ciderman/ Pete - gosh you put in the hours
78

Ma Maw Ma Paw un thu dug r eastend urs,

13/07/2008 20:30:38
79 brain dead

um ur laboor voter soz urs ams und yoos urs a big curry n chips wuth all scrapie knees soz ye urs
79

Ma Maw Ma Paw un thu dug r eastend urs,

13/07/2008 20:33:55
79 brain dead

ma maw says yoos wurrs chucked af thus mince paper for saying baddy thungs about public purks un hunging aboot scools soz u wurrs. yoos ur a bad man un am in thu mosses un the pooses soz um urs
80

Ma Maw Ma Paw un thu dug r eastend urs,

13/07/2008 20:36:45
wurrs going to farmfoods to see pigs and moo moos un yoos urnies soz um urs
81

,

13/07/2008 20:39:26
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82

,

13/07/2008 20:46:11
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83

,

13/07/2008 20:47:54
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84

jerrymanders,

13/07/2008 20:49:08
#17

The difference is that Scotland is a seperate country, not a state.
85

Ma Maw Ma Paw un thu dug r eastend urs,

13/07/2008 20:50:47
86 brain dead

um a laboor personage, usk ma maw ma paw un thu dug if oos dinnie beluves urs. ur u smelly down below
86

Ma Maw Ma Paw un thu dug r eastend urs,

13/07/2008 20:52:49
87 jerrymaders

my paws name is jerrymand-urs a migh vote furrs the pns pirty soz wheeze urs
87

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:05:43
Hello to everyone on this thread. Glasgow smiles better - remember?
88

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:06:56
Mrs Curran deserves our vote because she's a babe.
89

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:08:27
Local income tax doesn't add up, say experts

Well okay if this is true why cant we have an alternative to the council tax because to most people it is unfair!!? The labour voters in Glasgow should be aware that it is Scottish labour who are keeping them in poverty with the support of the conservatives and the council tax.

No single tax be it LIT, council tax or some other type of tax will benefit everyone but we must have a tax that benefits the majority of the population and is fair, what that tax might be , i dont know!!
90

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:08:42
I could never understand my grandfather. He always voted Tory. Because he couldn't find work after the age of fifty he reckoned that as Labour was for the working man, they could do nothing for him as he wasn't in gainful employment. My grandfather said this. Maybe he was right. Who knows?
91

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:09:40
#91 New Unionist Poster,13/07/2008 21:06:56
Mrs Curran deserves our vote because she's a babe.

lol have you been to specsavers ?
92

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:10:59
Does a local income tax mean we pay it at the local?
Probably not. Maybe it just means it's a national tax we pay and the money goes to local services.

If we paid LIT nationally and we all gave the council 1p extra (depending on the area), this would be local.
93

,

13/07/2008 21:11:09
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94

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:12:09
94

No I haven't, but the good lady Margaret has. Two for one before Kenny stops this too! He's worried that people are seeing double.
95

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:12:16
#85 #88 #89 Ma Maw Ma Paw un thu dug r eastend urs

WTF ??
96

,

13/07/2008 21:14:11
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97

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:15:48
Where is everybody? Slow news? Glasgow east is to the right of Glasgow west in case the good Margaret is reading this.

Some people say national things are all bad, but I say NO!!!! Look at Union Carbide. You can't say that just because Union Carbide is a union and that it killed people, that ALL unions are bad. No no and thrice no I say.

The union kills no-one as we all die eventually - maybe sooner in Glasgow east, but that's not labour's fault. It's somebody else's fault I say. Not labour.
98

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:17:30
#88 & #89 maw paw un dug etc

Dont be fooled by the scam and lies of old labour preachers, those desperado's only live by telling fibs and trying to dupe the electorate into a false sense of security to shore up the red clydeside mafia in George square.

50 years of rot = labour in Scotland. Thatcher was bad but she was a saint compared to this rotten scum
99

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:17:52
Looky here. I got 100!

As I said, it can't be labour's fault because we are now NEW LABOUR. The problems in the east end of Glasgow happened BEFORE Labour became new labour.

It is a name change - like changing Windscale to Sellafield. You can't blame Windscale.
100

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:19:17
#99 ciderman pete

Why have you a fascination with me and my family, i have reported you again and i hope this stupid moniker of yours is banned like the ciderman one.
101

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:19:59
Ceylon became Sri Lanka. Don't blame the Tamil Tigers on Ceylon. When it was Ceylon the only problem was the tea.

Glasgow labour isn't new labour because they don't like the name.
102

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:21:19
Mr Dane at number 99

I don't think you are an SNP insider. I think you're into MILF. Have you got an inferiority complex?
103

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:22:43
#102

well done on the 100
104

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:23:08
103 Mr Spook

Are you trying to imply that people are allowed to change sign-in names? That's scurrilous!!!!!

I don't see any posts by Mr Ciderman here. Is he on another story?
105

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:23:30
#105

Nice one New uni poster
106

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:23:31
#105

Nice one New uni poster
107

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:24:58
Thank you Mr Spook, but remember. Vote Labour on the 24th because it may be your last chance (if you're 60).
108

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:26:13
108 and 109

Why did you post this twice? I read it the first time.

I believe Dane to be NOT in the SNP. I think it's a cunning stunt.
109

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:26:54
#107

He was on another thread this morning and went all mental posting sexual innuendos on the forum and all his posts were deleted by the online moderator then they decided to close the tread down. It was just as well because ciderman was being lam posted by the conservative posters , SNP and lib dems.. He was mashed into the gutter where he belongs
110

,

13/07/2008 21:28:22
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
111

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:29:07
#111

Ooops sorry, my Internet connection is sluggish and i must have clicked on the post comment link twice, sorry
112

Pink Sombrero,

13/07/2008 21:29:44
112. I saw that too. Ciderman Pete had a meltdown and was posting racist abuse and sexual innenundo and trying to groom other posters.

Now he has come back as Brane Damage.
113

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:31:03
"Local income tax doesn't add up, say experts"

We must always listen to the experts. Experts have said many interesting things over the years.

1 The earth is flat
2 Splitting the atom will never produce power
3 Powered flight is impossible
4 It will be impossible to travel faster than the speed of sound
5 This ship (Titanic) is unsinkable

OK. Maybe that's bad examples, but you get my drift.

114

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:31:58
#113 ciderman pete

On this website i can be anyone or anything i like, tomoz i will post as (Top of the hill) and will look down on your rotten existence, again the facination with me again but why ?
115

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:34:03
113 Mr Damaged

Why are you trying to groom Mr Spook or his mum? Why are you posting where he studies? Are you perhaps miffed (as opposed to milfed) that he has an education? I really worry about my unionist friends. Stick to the topic. Tell us about the trams.
116

Pink Sombrero,

13/07/2008 21:34:47
117. I think Ciderman brane is stalking you. It is very creepy. He is clearly obsessed with you.
117

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:35:05
Mr Pink

Why pink? Why sombrero? Are you Spanish?
118

New Unionist Poster,

13/07/2008 21:36:15
Mr Dane

What is paranoaic? I've googled it and it says you're an idiot - no offence.
119

The Spook in Leith,

13/07/2008 21:39:07
#118 #118 and #121

Than