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'Bring it on' urges Davis as Murdoch's man picks up the gauntlet



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Published Date: 14 June 2008
THE by-election sparked by the shock resignation of Tory MP David Davis was yesterday descending into farce with Kelvin MacKenzie, a former editor of the Sun, set to enter the race.
Mr MacKenzie, now an outspoken columnist, said he would stand against the former shadow Home Secretary if – as expected – Labour declined to put forward a challenger.

Labour, which came third in the Haltemprice and Howden constituency in the 2005 General Election with only 12 per cent of the vote, said it would not make a final decision until Mr Davis formally quit as an MP. The Lib Dems have already said they will not put forward a candidate. With UKIP and the BNP also refusing to enter the race, Mr Davis could be challenged by only Mr MacKenzie and the Monster Raving Loony Party.

Mr MacKenzie, who has previously fought local council elections on the issue of parking charges, said he had been encouraged by Rupert Murdoch, chairman of News Corporation, which owns the Sun.

The campaign would be bankrolled by Mr Murdoch – allowed under UK election law if the funds come from a company registered in Britain. Candidates can spend up to £100,000.

Mr MacKenzie said: "He (Mr Murdoch] suggested to me that if Labour doesn't put anyone up I would run. If that's the case and Rupert puts up the money, because it isn't cheap to run as a candidate, then I might well do it."

He said he was prepared to stand "in the interests of democracy", and added: "I don't feel it's right that he should be allowed to have a walkover. I don't feel my civil liberties as being at risk, but I view my life as being at risk if I am on the Tube or the train and some bad guy wants to blow me up or blow my family up."

Mr Davis shocked his party by stepping down on Thursday to re-contest his seat in an attempt to highlight what he regards as the erosion of Britain's civil liberties. The tipping point was the government's victory in getting plans to detain terror suspects for 42 days through the Commons.

Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, yesterday gave a clear signal that Labour would not participate in the by-election, which is likely to be held on 10 July, by describing it as a "stunt". He said: "I think everyone now recognises that this is a stunt that has become a farce."

But Mr Davis accused Mr Brown of an "incredible act of cowardice", and said he was not fearing a challenge from Mr MacKenzie, who the bookmakers make a 16/1 outsider.

Mr Davis said: "Good luck to him. Bring it on. If he wants to take me on, with the full money and might of the Murdoch organisation, well, so be it."

The world according to Kelvin…

"Gordon Brown… wants to spend every single penny you earn. Scotland believes not in entrepreneurialism like London … the reality is that the Scots enjoy spending it; they don't enjoy creating it."

– sparking outrage on BBC TV's Question Time last year

"The infrastructure of Scotland exists solely on the hand-outs of the clever English."

– defending his comments on Question Time

"Well, John, let me put it this way. I've got a large bucket of s**t lying on my desk and tomorrow morning I'm going to pour it all over your head."

– to John Major, then PM, after the 1992 exchange rate crisis

"I said I'd rather saw my d**k off with a nail file."

– when offered the chance to be a Tory spin doctor

"She couldn't edit a bus ticket."

– on Janet Street-Porter, appointed to edit the Independent on Sunday

"The only people who want to pay a licence fee are academics and people with strange sweaters."

– on the BBC

"I'm not nervous. I had all my nerves taken out when I was at the Sun. They do an operation on Bupa."

– on his debut as a talk-show host


The full article contains 684 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 June 2008 11:40 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Conservative Party
 
1

Angus Ogg,

13/06/2008 23:08:26
Did Kelvin McKenzie really say about Scotland and money...

"the reality is that the Scots enjoy spending it; they don't enjoy creating it."

What a complete ignorant ar5e hole.

Scotland punches high above its weight with money...

1. Adam Smith: Published what is arguably the first work of modern economics - The Wealth of Nations. Adam Smith is now widely renowned as the father of modern economics.

2. Royal Bank of Scotland: FTSE Top 10. Scottish Company and world class. Also, in 1728, the Royal Bank of Scotland became the first bank in the world to offer an overdraft facility, which is now basically how Gordon Brown finances UK-PLC.

3. Launch of Collective Scottish Investment Vehicles in 1873 which played a major role in financing the growth of the US economy.

4. Commercial Bank of Scotland (RBS) in 1954 is the first bank in Britain to offer Hire Purchase financing.

5. 1997 The Royal Bank of Scotland is the first British bank to announce a fully-fledged internet banking service

6. Bank of New York, 1784 Bank of New York is founded by Scotsman Alexander Hamilton.



Kelvin McKenzie: Given this slack jawed self promoting media vanity jobby criticises the Scots for spending other people's money, he sure scored an own goal with his using "Ruperts" money instead of his own.



At least David Davis has some guts putting his job and career on the line for some principles.
2

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 14/06/2008 00:21:59
The press have called this wrong.

There is huge support for David Davis on this.

This Labour government thinks it can film us, lock us up, force ID cards on us, read our emails, open our letters, give away freedoms to Europe and lie us into illegal wars. Then there is banning peaceful protest, the right of assembly, imprisonment for writing poetry about terrorism, imprisonment for thinking about terrorism, imprisonment for talking about terrorism.

This is worse than 1984 and it has to stop. It is time to waken up and stand up for our liberties.

I think the good people of England would do well to elect David Davis as the first prime minister of an independent England.

3

Nikostratos,

14/06/2008 00:43:39
Well the pantomine season has started and good for that...

David davis is Buttons to Kelvins widow twanky.

But on a more serious note when those bombs went off on the buses in London and my wife's friend and her husband were frantically trying to contact thier son who works in the area of the explosion.

Only to find out although he himself was OK the explosion was within a small distance and some work colleagues had minor injuries....

I do wonder if Mr Davies first concern should be with the potential innocent victims in any terrorist attacks.

All this High Falutin talk of liberty doesnt mean much in a graveyard...
4

Scottish not British,

14/06/2008 01:04:27
David Davis at least seems decent unlike Kelvin MacKenzie who is a reprehensible oxygen thief and frankly the people of Haltemprice and Howden would most likely be doing themselves a grave disservice by voting in publicity hungry, shallow waster who most likely couldn't careless for them and you can bet Murdoch would want his moneys worth out of MacKenzie.

#2
Careful there you've mentioned the T word, that proves you are one and thank goodness that the government cares so much about us that dangerous types like you can be locked away for 42 days no questions asked. Phew! I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing this...

#3
Consider the words of Martin Niemoller:
"First they came for the Communists,
- but I was not a communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
- but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews,
- but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."

What will you say if they come for you? They had more time than most places to deal with suspects before this. This isn't protection of the public, this is a form of social control and given that the Labour government has eroded civil liberties in general and put in no safegaurds do you really feel safer? Bear in mind that if innocent people are being preyed upon the guilty ones are still out there

5

BIG EYE,

Paisley 14/06/2008 01:10:36
Does Rupert really believe this is a good idea.

I can see sales of the Sun plummeting.

I am not a Tory but I could see myself writing out a cheque to the Davis campaign if the Sun decides to take him on.

Somehow I don't think I would be alone
6

Maisie from Morningside,

14/06/2008 01:11:45
Kelvin MacKenzie comes across as one of those over opinionated pub bores who left school without being able to read.

Davis should have no problem winning this one.
7

paull,

14/06/2008 01:28:07
Hopefully the monster loony party win.
8

Col. Blimp­IV*,

14/06/2008 01:43:05
#3 Niko

Bee stings kill as many as 10 in a bad year in mainland UK.

Some other things that thin the population down a bit are:

driving (3391)
murder and manslaughter (495)
suicide (4485)
other accidents (8933)
poisoning and overdose (3157)
HIV (180)

Total: 20641 for 1999

Smoking kills 6 times this many people, each and every year.

Here are some American stats :


http://stpeteforpeace.org/real.threat.html


We can't eliminate these things any more than we can terorism...but we can prioritise.

9

Nikostratos,

14/06/2008 01:55:22
#10colonel

waz dat meen.........g night
10

,

14/06/2008 03:27:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
11

W Smith,

Middle East 14/06/2008 04:19:46
Kelvin MacKenzie has got it right.

The Scots mentioned on #1 Angus Ogg were an exception who believed in capitalism not socialism.

1) The SNP has just granted 6 million pounds of taxpayers money to some gay and lesbian transgender anti-abuse group and so its left to a Malaysian business man to donate 8 million quid to a Scottish University.

Salmond calls this 'nation building' then I suppose.

2) Holyrood is just another layer of middle management the country doesn't need.

How many jobs have the numpties in Holyrood brought to Scotland over the last 10 years?

NONE!

3) The SNP voters want to lecture us on 'freedom' while they tolerate Bill Wilson the communist.

Salmond quotes communist Hugh MacDiarmind, protests publicy with communistS Kate Hudson (CND) and Lyndsey German (Stop The War Coalition) and hangs out with the Galloway who was caught on camera laughing and giggling with Uday Hussein.

GIVE ME A BREAK!
12

Bejjy,

14/06/2008 05:48:30
Ask the people of Liverpool what they think of the overopiniated, egoistic and bigotted Kelvin MacKenzie. I hope that he does stand against David Davis in the by-election and that the electorate give him a bloody nose.
13

Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

14/06/2008 06:44:32
Davis (like Salmond) is a clown. 67% of people want the 42 day law brought in.

All he wants to do is to try and score cheap political points which is obviously more important to him (like Salmond) than our national security.
14

Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

14/06/2008 06:47:36
#14 Who cares what the people of Liverpool think? Maybe they disagree because all their jails are full of burglars.
15

steve 1511,

aberdeen 14/06/2008 06:54:14
this is a good opportunity for comrade broon and the labour stasi party to get a true reflection of there popularity,are they afraid of the shame to come in third to a racist bigot and an eeejit like mckenzie,or they could give mckenzie a bribe not to stand and come in second as is done in a banana republic
16

Kenny A,

14/06/2008 06:58:56
13

Like a laugh and joke same as anyone else but saying Mackenzie is correct is a bit past it. Do you also think Borris Johnson was on the ball with his comments regarding London subsidising Scotland?

That particular myth was "Busted", big style.

This pair are just after publicity, politician versus a pillock. Davis may be acting out of good intents but Mackenzie is just a disgrace.
17

Mikey,

14/06/2008 07:25:24
The SNP should put up a candidate running on a platform of "independence for England!" It would be interesting to see how far behind that amoeba MacKenzie would be!
18

whitegold,

Shire 14/06/2008 07:31:16
Once again the Scotsman merely parrots Labour. "THE by-election sparked by the shock resignation of Tory MP David Davis was yesterday descending into farce.."

The Scotsman is merely parroting Gordon Brown and passing it off as considered opinion.

I certainly don't see it as farce. I'm interested to hear the arguments.

I agree with #2 on this:
"The press have called this wrong.

There is huge support for David Davis on this.

This Labour government thinks it can film us, lock us up, force ID cards on us, read our emails, open our letters, give away freedoms to Europe and lie us into illegal wars."

The Press are wrong on this. They seem unnecessarily sneering, possibly because it is unorthodox. But at least people get to actually vote on something!

We are meant to live in a democracy, but there seems precious little input from people - one only has to think of the broken promises of a referendum on Europe.
19

Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

14/06/2008 07:45:56
#21 "Huge support for Davis on this".

How huge?
How do you know?
20

Steve Foley,

English Home Counties 14/06/2008 07:47:54
I am sure that the Electorate of Haltemprice and Howden have more intelligence than to reject a good constituency MP whom they have returned since 1987 for a hack who writes for the most puerile periodical owned by Murdoch and which is an insult to the intelligence of most reasonable people.

Personally I'd like to see David Davis win with an increased majority and MacKenzie lose his deposit, but I am sure that scribbler will get a good few thousand votes as a vote dump for those who for various good reasons do not wish to vote Tory, but will not have a candidate from the party of their choice.

Again I salute David Davis for his courage and integrity and wish him well in the face of the Media who are trying to bandwagon against him.
21

Labour Sleeze Reporter,

14/06/2008 07:50:27
http://tinyurl.com/66p4et
22

Labour Sleeze Reporter,

14/06/2008 08:00:28
Wow - agreeing with AM2 @ #18
23

Richardinho,

14/06/2008 08:06:03
If the 42 day issue is one of 'national security', then why stop at 42-why not 100 days? why not indefinitely?
There has to be a limit somewhere.
When I think about things that might cause me 'terror', an Al quaed suicide bomb isn't one of them. The chances of it happening are just to slight. Gangs of neds off their face on booze attacking people in the city centre in the evenings on the other hand, do terrify me.

This English government seems to prefer going after bogeymen with easy headline grabbing stunts like '42 day detention' rather than tackling the real crime problems that face us.
24

SouthernSkye,

14/06/2008 08:08:30
#15
"67% of people want the 42 day law brought in....."

And on these notice boards I would suggest the trend is the reverse of that. So which is the true will of the public?
Stat, stats and damned lies....it's all the same!

Mr Davis, once again, I applaud you.
#2, as others have said, has it right. The press, especially The Scotsman, are calling this wrong, very wrong.

25

Alec M,

Falkirk 14/06/2008 08:10:02
#25 LSR : Thanks for a very interesting link.
26

Ken Mac,

Glasgow 14/06/2008 08:14:12
#13 W Smith,Middle East

Been out in the midday sun?
27

Boy Wonder,

14/06/2008 08:20:22
I agree with #3. The panto season has well and truly started early!
28

A big boy dun it an ran away,

14/06/2008 08:26:33
Help ma boab whit nonsence passin fur news
29

Rab The Ranter,

Ayrshire 14/06/2008 08:46:31
Awbuddy is needin' tae ignore these self important jumped up pieces of human waste.

Oh am oan the telly, Oh a must be important, I don't like the result so I'm gaunnae throw ma rattle oot the pram, Oh see me am great. NAW YUR NO, YUR A TUBE DAVIS.
30

Shug,

14/06/2008 08:47:12
Davis is a fool. This is a complete waste of time and money. Labour won't contest the seat, he will probably win his seat back and then what? Oh yes, he will claim that it is a victory for those opposed to the 42 day rule. What guff! Parliament has voted. A majority of MP's voted in favour of it. End of story.

I would suspect that like myself, most people don't fully understand what the 42 day rule will actually mean in practice. It is not aimed at ordinary criminal's it is aimed at suspected terrorist offenders. Personally I would rather suspected bombers , be they black, white, yellow, nationalist extremists, animal rights nutters etc are taken off the streets while investigations proceed. They don't play by the rules and all we have done is to amend the rules to help ease their capture. It may turn out to be a bad move since it could end up alienating certain groups of society but if it stops a 7/7 or 9/11 type incident then maybe it is worth it.

Bring on the DNA database and ID cards.
31

catgut,

pomona 14/06/2008 08:49:10
Labour will be able to save their deposit by no putting a candidate up
32

john z,

edinburgh 14/06/2008 08:56:01
So the loud mouthed big headed egotistical bigot has been "chosen" by that great defender of human rights and freedom of speech Rupert Murdoch.

What a joke. I am no fan of the tories at all, but I think David Davis is doing the right thing. This country is becoming an oppressive state, where junior council employees have the right to bug your house, read your post and E-mails, and listen to your personal telephone calls, depending upon your choice of school.

People in this country need to wake up. Time and again in history, the same thing has happened, a gradual drip drip drip eroding rights here and there, and then suddenly people realise what is happening, but it is too late, they cannot stop any further removal of rights because they have no right to protest or demontrate.

If they speak out in public, they are taken away, and the public are told, they are terrorists or 'enemies of the state'.

I'd prefer it if Murdochs' foul mouthed biggotted lapdog, McKenzie did not try to usurp the democratic process in this country, and actually chose to do something useful in his life.

David Davis is actually on the pitch, whereas McKenzie is just a poorly educated thug shouting from the terraces. Moron.
33

TommyKaye,

UK 14/06/2008 09:04:33
#1 I think you will also find that HSBC and the "Queens" bank Coutts were also established by Scots.

MacKenzie is an uncouth ar*&.

IM agine being sponsored by a slimy Australian who is now an American but used to be British and who married a Chinese girl young enough to be his Granddaughter!

Yuk
34

Pip10,

Problem with numbers 14/06/2008 09:14:59
I am pleased someone has taken a stand on this principle. I don't care what party they come from. The pity is that the seat to be contested is a sound Tory seat. What would be more appropriate would be if my MP resigned and stood for re-election as it is such a marginal seat. I used to live in Deal (where the marine banides were bombed by the IRA), so am no stranger to terrorism. The ironic thing is the 42 day rule for some people (don't forget the NatWest 3 were extradited to America using terrorism legislation)could be like aq Turkey Voting for Christmas!
Thanet South
LABOUR HOLD - Stephen Ladyman

The 2005 general election Votes Share
%
Stephen Ladyman, Labour 16,660 40.4
Mark MacGregor, Conservative 15,996 38.8
Guy Voizey, Liberal Democrat 5,431 13.2
Nigel Farage, UK Independence Party 2,079 5.0
Howard Green, Green Party 888 2.2
Maude Kinsella, Independent 188 0.5

35

Shug,

14/06/2008 09:17:12
The Natwest 3 deserved everything they got.
36

JayJay,

Right here 14/06/2008 09:28:31
How can Davis claim this action will prove anything?
If he wants to make it a fair fight on the question of civil liberties he should perhaps stand in a constituency where the Tories do not have a whopping great majority.
It is hardly "big man" stuff when you are fighting a labour party that polled 12% of the vote last time out.
I believe running this fatuous poll, where this twit will win, claim a huge moral victory, then go back to what he was doing before, will cost taxpayers many thousands of pounds. I'd love to ask Mr Davis if he, or his daft party, would like to defend my democratic rights not to waste my tax money on one man's vanity.
37

Citylocal Fife,

Fife News 14/06/2008 09:28:44
On a bit of a tangent - in this instance, Gordon Brown is unusually quick to align his mis-placed ramblings with the will of the people.

This is just more of his selective slimyness, he chooses carefully not to align with 'the people' when it does not suit, i.e. in the return of the death penalty, and saying No! to the EU.

I think that David Davis is right, surely in 28 days we can garner enough evidence to hold someone on some sort of charge, it may be later that other charges are applied, but if in 28 days no evidence whatsoever can be produced of *any* criminal offence, then it would seem that something is far wrong with the initial intelligence.

As for MacKenzie, there should be a law against people like him.

Also if Gordon Brown is so sure of his stance why does he not resign his Fife seat and fight David Davis in the up-coming by-election...


Yours etc

Angus Whitton
38

tartan army 2222,

14/06/2008 09:44:04
#18 AM2

You call Mackenzie anti-Scottish but you fail to see that you are simply another Mackenzie - you just happen to put over your desire to suppress Scots in a different way.

You also say 'if WE funded Davis's campaign'. Who is this we?
39

 Ayrshire Scot™,

14/06/2008 10:08:32
"Bring it on" has clearly become the rallying cry for the calamitously politically inept ...

I wonder why David Davis voted for the Tory Prevention of Terrorism act which allowed for detention without charge in the north of Ireland but now objects "on principle" to detention without charge now...
40

Angus Ogg,

14/06/2008 10:11:45
#18 Good Morning AM2

I disagree with pretty much most you write, but this morning I find myself in the strange situation of being in complete agreement with you.

#42 tartan army2222, with all due respect, the "we" in this instance is me.....

Letter written and posted today

===================

Dear Mr Davis,

I am an ex Labour voter who voted Scottish Nationalist last time round, and was rewarded with the excellent Alex Salmond and his team for government, I and am delighted with the result.

However, I find myself agreeing with your bold and principled move. I think the press have called the public modd completely wrong. The Labour errosion of civil rights with ID card imposition, DNA spying, CCTV spying and the 42 Day miscarriages of justice system waiting to happen is enough.

I despise the ignorant pub bore and anti-Scot Kelvin McKenzie. To prove him wrong that Scots are selfish and mean, please find enclosed my donation to your campaign of £10.

Please do to McKenzie what the amazing people of Liverpool did to the wretched Sun newspaper. One of the finest things I ever saw a community do was effectively reduce a national newspaper circulation to zero in it's city, after what the Sun wrote about Hillsborough. Mckenzie is pretty much a self-promoting zero to start with, but perhaps you could make that point well in wiping the floor with him in public debate.

Thankyou.
41

bogmon,

14/06/2008 10:12:26
Politicians and media moguls - both have wildly differing self-serving agendas, and which bear no resemblance whatsoever to the agenda of the people who pay their wages.

Don't bother voting or buy any newspapers (read the news online). They will soon get the message that actually the public are not being represented fairly.
42

tartan army 2222,

14/06/2008 10:17:44
Cheers Angus

Whilst I think Mr Davis's resignation is a stunt, I also think it makes a strong point and I also support, albeit not to the tune of £10. Maybe I am as mean as Mr Mackenzie portrays me to be!

I would also argue that if the Tories were in power it would be them pushing for 42 days. Civil liberties have never been high on their list of priorities throughout history.
43

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 14/06/2008 10:17:55
It seems that the arrogant David Davis believes that he, and not David Cameron, should have won the Tory leadership, and behind the scenes things are far from rosy in the Conservative Party!

This self-imposed By-Election will drag on for weeks and the press coverage should reveal all about the real state of the Conservative Party?

44

Jimmy the Pie,

14/06/2008 10:20:59
#4Scottish not British

Excellent post

#13 W Smith.

You have excelled yourself.
This post is even worse than your usual demented, poisoned, idiotic, rambling drivel.

#18 AM2

Never thought I'd ever say it, but I agree with you on this post.

45

bluehead,

edinburgh 14/06/2008 10:21:42

some of the stuff written in the sun would be more suitable for the comic cuts.
David Davis is one hundred per cent right to try to stop the the erosion of freedom for the people of this country,which has been destroyed by this terrible labour goverment
46

stoatsnest,

Ham 14/06/2008 10:24:50
The U.S. Supreme Court has just declared the Act which denies Guantanamo Bay detainees the right to habeus corpus unconstitutional. Mugabe has made it clear he's not going to abide by democratic vote.
Our government want to detain people for longer.
We have to take erosion of liberty seriously. It is too important to be left to politicians and especially policemen. They're so good at it they shot an innocent man in a tube train.
Whatever his reasons and political beliefs, Davis is to be congratulated for making sure we all think about the issue. As for Mackenzie, his opposition will help publicise the problem, whatever his motives.
47

Publius,

Girvan (for the weekend) 14/06/2008 10:39:56
#27 Richardinho
You're wrong to blame the 'English' government for the 42 day bill. It is a Scot - Brown - who is imposing it and an Engishman - Davis - who is trying to mobilise public opinion against it.
Brown is also pressing on with the Lisbon Treaty despite the fact that the Irish have rejected it in a referendum. If we had a referendum, Scotland (and the rest of the UK) would reject it too.

Agree with all the posts about Kelvin MacKenzie. When he first mentioned the Scots it was an ill-thought out post-devolution joke about the West Lothian question. Now he is behaving like a bigoted, xenophobic lout.
48

Publius,

Girvan 14/06/2008 10:45:25
Just a thought. Forty something people have been killed by terrorists in the UK during the last five years. I think that the number of people killed by police marksmen or run down by police cars must be getting on for forty. The police are almost as big a danger to life as terrorists. And the police are never to held to account. The police who killed the Brazilian on the tube train are all still in their jobs.
49

Pilrig.,

Livingston 14/06/2008 10:47:48
A great day for British democracy : an airhead bankrolled by a foreign soft-porn meechant.
50

brownlie,

14/06/2008 10:48:16
Has the part of the Anti-terrorist bill giving the government the power to hold military inquests, without a jury, and with a judge of their choice been taken out?
51

Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

14/06/2008 10:48:32
As far as I am concerned the more CCTV we have, the better.

Everybody should be put on the DNA database as well.

It all makes for a safer society.
52

Pilrig.,

Livingston 14/06/2008 10:52:06
13 W Smith - it would be a scandal if Salmond ignored MacDiarmid, a communist and the finest Scotsman of the 20th century. It would also scandalous if he ignored the finest Scotsman of the 19th century, Sir Walter Scott, a Tory.
53

Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

14/06/2008 10:52:10
#52 whats the answer then?

Make sure all police travel by foot and only carry water pistols?
54

Pilrig.,

Livingston 14/06/2008 10:54:25
34 - a civil servant
55

Pilrig.,

Livingston 14/06/2008 10:57:54
55 - remember and tug your forelock next time you pass a cctv.
56

Calvinist,

14/06/2008 11:02:32
Just wait until the next terrorist outrage occurs. All of this will seem petty. No doubt we'll all be asking why did the Government not do more to protect us? It's almost impossible to win against an enemy that has no regard for human life, be it innocent, guilty or even their own. Any attempt to bring such people to justice is better than wringing our hands an doing nothing. Even if this means that a few miscarriages of justice occur as a consequence. After all such miscarriages are an inherent problem of all legal systems.
57

Angus Ogg,

14/06/2008 11:02:37
#55 Gammaracanthuskytodermogammarus,

Your theory is fine. Right up to the point that the Brazilian Electrician was unlawfully killed by the police. Killed. Dead. Mort. Would you like that to happen to your Brother, your Son, or your Dad?

In a perfect world, CCTV, DNA and ID Cards would be the best thing ever.

Unfortunately, these systems are run by imperfect malfunctioning human beings.

Miscarriages of justice abound.

Worse, those that are of the crooked tendency have a field day stealing all the honest people's ID and Data.

Don't think for one minute that when ID Cards go live, there will not be a monumental scandal when some cyberthief or cybernut steals 10,000 people's ID.

Then we will see a boon in ID Theft Protection Insurance, and next thing you know, Scott Webb will be posting a link to a conspiracy theory that might even turn out to be true :@)

58

Jeff, Surrey,

14/06/2008 11:03:58
Gordon Brown is ducking out and nowhere to be seen in this challenge to his disgraceful attack on civil liberties, what a surprise from this cowardly and arrogant man.

Good luck Davis.
59

stoatsnest,

Ham 14/06/2008 11:08:38
Good point about the police Publius. The cure can be worse than the disease.
I'm not anti police as such, but too many people have guns already.
I counted more than 15 armed policemen outside Croydon Crown Court yesterday. It's getting like South Africa.
60

Jwil,

14/06/2008 11:23:26
It will be interesting to see the next set of polling results. If Brown thinks he can make some capital out of this I have my doubts. It is not Brown the policy maker that the English dislike, it is Brown the Scot.
61

Porry,

Nowgorod 14/06/2008 11:48:35
Socialists in general don't seem to understand the concept of civil liberties:
Take 'really existing socialism' in the part of the world that was dominated by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics,
take Adolf Hitler's National Socialist Workers' Party,
take Socialist Cuba and Venezuela,
take Bliar, Brown and comrades in the UK.
However, everyone, wherever they live, need to watch out. There are other guys around who try to follow suit, even if they are from Texas and don't consider themselves 'liberals'.
62

Pilrig.,

Livingston 14/06/2008 12:18:45
Maybe all newly-born bairns should be microchipped.
After all "if they've nothing to hide, they've nothing to fear" !
63

Gill,

Blairgowrie 14/06/2008 12:20:35
OMG AM2, you scare me when you go all reasonable on us! 18 is an excellent post.

As for Mr Sun...I'd happily assist in the cutting off of his small d*ck with my oldest, rustiest nail file!
Any time that suits...;-D
64

Mercian,

UK 14/06/2008 12:22:02
Kelvin MacKenzie is a vile stirrer who, like the SNP, attempts to create tensions between English and Scottish people. The difference is the SNP are usually a wee bit subtler.

I can't quite believe David Davis' motives are purely about principle, but I hope he gets re-elected because he is an interesting character to have in politics.


65

Allan(handofgod137),

14/06/2008 12:58:03
One of the best things to come out of this, apart from generating an interest in politics, is it shows up the leftist bias in the news media, and highlights how much Gordon Brown is sh!tting himself. I'd have some respect for Murdoch if he wasn't one of the biggest tax dodgers going.
66

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 14/06/2008 13:19:27
"Mr MacKenzie, who has previously fought local council elections on the issue of parking charges, said he had been encouraged by Rupert Murdoch"

MacKenzie is just the monkey, not the organ grinder.
67

McMadman,

Saor Alba 14/06/2008 13:32:22
I think they're both a pair of cupid stunts, tbh.
68

subrosa,

14/06/2008 13:35:24
# 56

Alex Salmond has no choice. They're deid.
69

ThomasP,

14/06/2008 14:05:01
I don't know why I am reading posts who have added the SNP and Salmond into this matter.

This issue is between David Davis and Kelvin MacKenzie, the SNP and First Minister Salmond has nothing to do with the issue.

Please be abit more mature. You may not like Salmond or the SNP but to include them while you post on the David Favis issue is clearly pethetic.
70

Allan(handofgod137),

14/06/2008 14:25:22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA9uIhOp034

Copy and paste the link to see the latest from 10 Downing Street.
71

WL,

livingston 14/06/2008 14:26:00
Hope that Kelvin MacKenzie does win the seat that David Davis did no longer want (that is why Davis resigned and caused this by-election).
72

Allan(handofgod137),

14/06/2008 14:39:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA9uIhOp034

Copy and paste the link to see the latest from 10 Downing Street.
73

kimba,

14/06/2008 14:39:13
I agree with Mackenzie on a lot of thinks,but this time he is well out of order,Davis has shown he is a man of principle,and will do what ever it takes to defend them.
74

ThomasP,

14/06/2008 14:47:19
Kimba.

It is quite hard to see the logic on My Davis's actions.

At this rate the Conservatives would of won the elections then they could of reversed what Labour had done (if they are seriose about it)

David Cameron will have to watch Mr Davis in future incase he goes after the Tory Leadership.
75

kimba,

14/06/2008 14:50:33
78. Because this guy has a concsience,unlike the majority of politicians!
76

kimba,

14/06/2008 14:53:01
78. Davis should of been leader anyway,however, his time will come sooner rather than later!
77

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 14/06/2008 14:56:29
#34 "Personally I would rather suspected bombers , be they black, white, yellow, nationalist extremists, animal rights nutters etc are taken off the streets while investigations proceed. They don't play by the rules"

That's the sort of brainless comment that causes this whole mess. The word you're not grasping is "suspected". These people may play ENTIRELY by the rules. Until they're charged with and convicted of something, they're as innocent as you or me. That's a rather important principle that a lot of people gave up their lives for, and you want to throw it away for a load of Daily Mail hysteria. The fact that you have a vote frightens me more than any terrorist.
78

kimba,

14/06/2008 14:59:46
81. Don't agree with a lot of your comments,but agree totally with this one.
79

WL,

livingston 14/06/2008 15:03:58
#77
Davis would be a man of principle if he would not stand for re-election! Now he is just frustrating democracy and wasting taxpayers' money.
80

kimba,

14/06/2008 15:16:35
83. He is standing for re-election on a matter of principle,and guess what,he is going to win!
81

ThomasP,

14/06/2008 15:19:20
Rev. S. Campbell.

The System is already far to loose against Terrorists.

We have preachers who are living in Britain and other known terrorist figures living in Britain but due to human rights we can not move them abroad or anything.

Do you want to live in a country who allows Terrorists to live in peace while encouraging the young into radical Islam?
82

ThomasP,

14/06/2008 15:21:13
Kimba.

Mr Davis shall win because Mr Davis represents the Conservatives.

Mr Davis's seat is a Tory Safe Seat. If the seat was a marginal seat then we would see a real situation where the public will either vote for the plans or not.
83

kimba,

14/06/2008 15:23:17
85. I want to live in a country that honors personal freedom,that doesn't spy on it's citizens,but above all is not paranoid on terroists,that is only playing into their hands!
84

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 14/06/2008 15:25:59
Terrorists only win when they succeed in changing our way of life, and only we can let them do that by sacrificing the very liberties that this country once stood for. All the laws in the world won't stop a suicide bomber. People killing each other over stupid stuff they believe is simply an ugly fact of life, and we need to grow up and acknowledge that.
85

 Ayrshire Scot™,

14/06/2008 15:26:36
86. ThomasP - who are the known terrorists living in Britain and how will this bill help against them?
86

ThomasP,

14/06/2008 15:26:50
Kimba.

There has been no personal Freedom broken yet.

Has anyone been detained for up to 42 days yet?

I want to live in a country that is not afraid to go against Democracy to protect the citizens of her country.

The difference between Labour and Conservatives is that the Tories are hoping that day of war against Islam in our own country does not come.

Labour on the other hand will not take the chance and is willing to prepare for the future.
87

kimba,

14/06/2008 15:29:24
86. So,what you are saying is, the people of Haltemprice&Howden are a load of "sheep" and will vote for Davis whether they agree with him or not,you do the people of this area a great disservice!
88

ThomasP,

14/06/2008 15:30:44
Ayrshire Scot™.

I do not know there names personally. I saw several times on the News, Islamic figures preaching against the West and being protected by our own Police Forces incase they were attacked while doing so.

Democracy and Freedom of Speach being taken advantage of their own gain.

Rev. S. Campbell.

I will state again. That until groups of people are held up to 42 days then their rights may of been broken.

That has not happened and I see nothing wrong with a Law that is not being abused.
89

ThomasP,

14/06/2008 15:32:40
Kimba.

Yes. However, they will vote for Mr Davis because they represent the Conservatives who may appeal to the voters more.

If a marginal seat was up for grabs between Labour and Conservatives then we will see something more useful.
90

ThomasP,

14/06/2008 15:33:37
Kimba.

Also, this man has a majority of over 5,000 votes. He must be good at his job and may also continue to receive votes because of that.
91

kimba,

14/06/2008 15:34:39
90. Then my friend I feel sorry for you,if you are willing to go against democracy,you have played into the terrorists hands, thank god there are men and women in this great land of ours, who will fight tooth and nail to keep what so many died for in two world wars!
92

ThomasP,

14/06/2008 15:38:03
Kimba.

A majority of people would fight for their country, despite what their country may represent.

Democracy needs to be reformed in a way that it can not be abused. I am not against Democracy, I am just angry how our rights can be abused.

Examples: Prisoners managing to get 1000 pounds because they were not able to vote during elections.

I'd be happier to see Capital punishment back and killing the worst of them so we don't pay thousands having them locked up.
93

kimba,

14/06/2008 15:44:13
96. Now on that we agree,it is about time capital punishment was returned,especially for child molesters.
94

McMadman,

Saor Alba 14/06/2008 15:46:16
# 77 kimba,

"I agree with Mackenzie on a lot of thinks"

Final irrefutable proof that you have totally lost the plot, never mind yesterday's nonsense about you being a teacher !
95

ThomasP,

14/06/2008 15:47:53
kimba.

It can cost up to 17,000 per day to hold a dangerous child molester because they have to be kept away from the other criminals or the criminals would kill them.

How can I put trust into Democracy when our prisoners are giving a better life style then what our Government gives us?

They get given a flippen menu when it comes to their meals to choose from.
96

kimba,

14/06/2008 16:28:59
98. You see that is the difference,i can prove i'm a level three teaching assistant,you,on the other hand, are just a big mouthed bully!
97

kimba,

14/06/2008 16:31:52