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MSP under fire over 'fat, dumb methadone users' remarks



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Published Date: 17 March 2008
A SENIOR Conservative politician was criticised yesterday after claiming many drug addicts were sitting "fat, dumb and happy" on methadone.
Bill Aitken, the party's Holyrood justice spokesman, called for more schemes to encourage greater abstinence and help to treat heroin users. But drug treatment experts and Labour criticised his comments.

The Scottish Government revealed in July la
st year that the number of people treated for heroin use in Scotland had soared to record levels.

About 21,000 people are thought to be using methadone in an effort to wean them off their addiction.

Mr Aitken said that using the drug as a first treatment kept patients in a state of "partial suspended animation" and had to be tackled.

He added: "We have a very high proportion of the drug-abusing population sitting fat, dumb and happy on methadone.

"We have got to stop this over-reliance on methadone; get people off that particular form of treatment and get them back into the community."

Dr Saket Priyadarshi, of the Glasgow Addiction Service, expressed disappointment at the comments.

Alistair Ramsay, chairman of Drug Wise, a company offering drugs advice, conceded that methadone was prescribed too often, but said Mr Aitken's stance was "too reactionary".

"We need to see methadone as part of a strategy which embraces all forms of rehabilitation, from abstinence right through to being maintained on methadone," he said.

Dr Richard Simpson, Labour's public health spokesman, branded Mr Aitken's comments "deeply offensive".

He continued: "We do need a grown-up debate about what's available for people with drug addiction. "

"We need to look at the alternatives, including abstinence and other pharmacological treatments, but we do not need this sort of language in this discussion."





The full article contains 293 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

DER FUHRER,

17/03/2008 00:09:23
Well said Bill Aitken.
2

Furchrissake,

17/03/2008 00:26:55
Spot on Bill.
3

Vivas,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 00:31:41
Christ I hate the Tories, always will.

But on this point, I have to agreee with Aitken.
4

,

17/03/2008 00:46:17
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5

,

17/03/2008 00:57:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
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6

Tris,

17/03/2008 00:59:54


#3 Vivas. Agree with you. Aitken seems to have said it the way it is... although he might have chosen his words more carefully.... but he is a Tory so you can't expect too much.

This methadone substitute is just that, a substitute. We need to work to get people off drugs and keep them off drugs.

What a lovely caring person you seem to be Walter.
7

subrosa,

17/03/2008 01:15:20
Well said Bill Aitken. The chap from the addiction centre on Politics Now didn't come over well but the chap from the Alcohol centre was far more sensible in discussion. We need to discuss this with all parties concerned with ridding this country of this addiction.
8

a proud doonhamer,

Dumfries 17/03/2008 01:22:25
"Fat, dumb and happy"

Are you sure that he was referring to methadone users?

It sounds more like a Labour and Tory party meeting.
9

walter,

17/03/2008 01:23:19
#6 Tris
I am a very caring person, I believe in caring for those who need cared for.
I also believe you sometimes need to be cruel to be kind.
Some times people are just not worth the effort, tell me what you would do if you came across a car accident.
Would you try revive the person who had died or prevent the person who is alive from dying.
10

2Right,

On Location 17/03/2008 01:44:59
He looks a picture of health himself too eh ?
11

Jwil,

17/03/2008 01:52:13
"A SENIOR Conservative politician..............."

For Senior substitute "old".
12

,

17/03/2008 02:18:16
Comment Removed By Administrator
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13

Enylear,

USA 17/03/2008 02:46:13
How insensitive, not to mention callous of you. Would you rather take care of skinny, dumb, strung out heroin and opiod addicts? No, I didnt think so. Methadone is NOT a substitute, it is a live-saving medication that has helped millions. It is a physican monitored medication just as insulin is for diabetes. It is a proven fact that addiction is a chemical illness. We do not CHOOSE to become addicted. Most are predisposed by genetics. Our disease comes with a stigma, which is sad. This is exactly why more people dont seek treatment. They are afraid of being treated like the scum of the Earth. We put up with so much BS to be treated.It shouldnt be that way. Treatment and recovery should be celebrated, not met with stupid, insensitive comments like this.
14

Guga II,

Rockall 17/03/2008 04:11:24
Make them go "cold turkey".
15

Dave from Barra ©,

Western Isles 17/03/2008 07:33:42
12

You sound proud to be a junkie. All you have done is replace illeagal drugs witha legal one. If anybody needs to grow up, it's you. Once a junkie, always a junkie.

13

Yes, you do CHOOSE to become addicts. Get a grip. Genetics my erse.
16

yockel,

17/03/2008 08:12:43
Just listen to those poor US residents trying to persuade us dependence is good, must be a conspiracy.

Someone forget to tell them PC is in its death throws.
17

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 17/03/2008 08:19:12
#13 wrote:
"We do not CHOOSE to become addicted."

What utter rubbish. Stop making yourself out to be the 'poor victim' and realise you are responsible for your own actions instead of whining.
18

subrosa,

17/03/2008 08:30:46
# 12 # 13

Drug abuse is not a disease it's an addiction. Methadone is a legal drug used to replace the illegal ones you were using. Mind you I have some sympathy as the US doctors are the biggest legal drug pushers in the world.
19

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 17/03/2008 09:14:27
Mr. Aitken should have taken more care and left out the descriptive noun which, unfortunately, detracts from his emphasis, and perfectly fits his ample frame?
20

Encephalon,

17/03/2008 09:14:34
Why the fuss? The man spoke the truth!


Drug abuse is a major part of the problems facing our society-but we are not really serious about solving it.

There have been three stories in the past week which further illustrate the moral decadence we are now facing:

1) the woman in Dewsbury whose daughter went missing-this lady has SEVEN children by FIVE different men-I refuse to use the term fathers. A lifestyle paid for from the public purse.

2) the free-love hippy in Goa who-incredibly left her 15 year old daughter to fend for herself in a junkie paradise-with a tragic outcome- raped and murdered.

3) the drunken woman in Edinburgh who was so out of it she did not even rememeber if she had been raped by two Polish workmen in a van! Classy dame!


When the fairer sex turn into lager s-l-u-t-s it is an indication that the very social fabric of our society is now under threat-womens lib has a lot to answer for- but there bis a deeper malaise at work. The traditional bastion and moral compass that was religion has been undermined -but there is nothing to replace it and people seemed determined to outdo each other in levels of depravity-including drugs.


PC liberalism that has held sway during these past 40 years has been a failure-time to start wielding the big stick and make people accountable for their actions.



21

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 17/03/2008 09:43:11
Nice to hear a politician uttering some plain common sense for a change. There's been far to much pandering to the PC lobby and the drugs-are-a-medical-condition crew for whom the answer is inevitably - more drugs.

It says it all when Lab's health spokesman labels Aitken's statement "deeply offensive" and yet the stats show that methadone only helps around 3% of addicts recover if memory serves me well. In any normal person's book this is a crashing failure to deliver and I find it deeply offensive that someone should be backing failure to this extent. However that's what Labour does best - check it out.

Then there's the usual suspects coming out of the woodwork from addiction agencies whose very existence depends on people remaining addicts and not taking effective steps to really get them off drugs. Let's face it the process is tough but a lifestyle choice took them there and somehow they have to get back and that's not easy and will involve a certain amount of pain and hardship. It's definitely time to get real about these problem people and recognise how the problem came about in the first place.

22

Miss H,

17/03/2008 09:54:36
5 Yes he is wrong. How many fat junkies have you met?

23

Miss H,

17/03/2008 09:58:25
20 Interesting that your tirade is directed against women. Most addicts and indeed most criminals are men yet somehow you manage to relate moral decadence to the female of the species?

What's that about?

24

Miss H,

17/03/2008 10:04:53
17 Addiction is not actually straightforward and neither is the effect of particular drugs on individual people. There are people who can take heroin and function perfectly well on it. There are people who can't. There are people who can take a drink now and then without becoming a drunk and there are people who can't. There are people who can smoke dope and it does them no harm and there are people end up having psychotic episodes because of it. We all have very idiosycratic reactions to drugs and we do not all become addicted in the same way or for the same reasons.

At some point in the future there may well be a diagnostic tool which enables us to know what we should and should not touch e.g. you will know that you are safe to drink but should not touch cannabis - or the reverse. But we are not there yet.
25

sam the god,

17/03/2008 10:36:52
Put these sc*m in a large cage and let them go cold turkey with the taxpayers money that is saved give it to the pensioners.
26

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 17/03/2008 10:36:54
#24 - Heroin is normally highly addictive and is classed as such; - if people want to take the stuff then they should recognise they are to blame for taking it in the first place.

They are not victims.
27

Allan(handofgod137),

17/03/2008 10:52:12
Well said Bill. What the majority of people fail to get is that the methadone programm is one of the easiest ways to get on incapacity benefit.
28

Doh,

17/03/2008 11:34:06
#20

Misogynistic erse.

I takes two to tango, in every case you quote there are men equally at fault.

A lot drug taking is to do with despair, usually living in no-hope conditions.


Of course you get rich junkies as well Cameron stopped on soft drugs but others from Onassis to Guiness went all the way. They were neither fat, dump or happy.

Bill Aitken is a moron.
29

MethadoneSupportMama,

17/03/2008 11:45:31
TRY to remember, folks....Methadone is not always about heroin...ie street drugs! and more alarming still...IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU! Many people become addicted/dependent on opiates during a surgery, or illness. would you be of the same attitude with someone taking methadone because they became dependent on pain pills during a bout with cancer? You people sound like your from a different century for goodness sakes!

GONE are the days of the stereotypical methadone patient that you seem to have in your minds. People on methadone are your neighbors and co-workers. Some people take anti-depressants....and will for the rest of their lives....for QUALITY of life. Why is a methadone patient any different? ugh, where does this close-minded attitude even come from??!!

If you need help or would simply like to understand Methadone treatment stop by sometime!

http://www.MethadoneSupport.org
30

yolanda,

17/03/2008 11:47:15
I can't say that "fat" is a word I would associate with opiate users, so I'm not sure which pharmacies he has been hanging around outside!

I think that methadone programmes can be a very valuable method of treatment when it comes to reducing crime in terms of stealing etc to pay for an illicit habit(I understand that every £1 spent on treatment saves society £3)and introducing stability into the life of an opiate addict. I do think however that in recent times, it has perhaps been overused, because it can be the easy option, both for the client and those who work with them. Many people are left on maintenance programmes because it pretty much keeps them out of trouble, but the real issues of the addiction are not really addressed. More emphasis should be put on abstinence based treatment and providing resources to back it up to reduce the problem of opiate addiction rather than prolong it.
31

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/03/2008 11:58:04
20....Is that it?... is that all you could find?....is this your evidence for women undermining the fabric of society?...hang on a mo and I'l go dredge out every shred of evidence re men killing, murdering, raping, thieving, defrauding, lying, taking drugs, drinking to excess, sexually abusing children, sexually abusing adults, housebreaking, robbing, pretending they are politicians, ......

The men who have sex with a human that is so out of it they are incapable of making a conscious decision..

The men who father children to several different mothers and then welch on supporting these offspring

The father's who allow their daughters to dress up like they are touting for business....take drugs, get drunk and are inept at fathering responsibilities....


etc etc etyawncetera.....

Methedone....the people it works for are the lucky ones...it is the ones who still cannot cope, are too far down the line that still 'top-up'... it doesnt work for....

32

,

17/03/2008 12:12:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 12:15:12
#31
Although the chaps comments were a bit abstract and very odd it's a well known fact you despise and hate men (no doubt your in your forties with no kids of husband). Your arguments are thus nullified, regardless of your points.
34

Miss H,

17/03/2008 12:18:12
26 You can say the same about anybody who has any substance abuse problem whethet it be heroin, drink, fags, chocolate or indeed chips. That would cover the majority of the population.
35

Miss H,

17/03/2008 12:20:30
32 If what you say is true you are a psychopath and a bigger danger to society than any junkie. Let us hope you are never allowed near a gun.
36

sam the god,

17/03/2008 12:26:03
#32 Str_r_20

best idea so far as far as all these postings go but bullets cost money. A sharp chap on the back of the head with a hatchet is more cost effective as it can be used over and over again.
37

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 12:27:07
#35
These people would stab and kill you for the £20 you have in your wallet, they would rob an elderly lady of her pension, they are the utter dregs of society..
38

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 12:34:06
#36
Touche, if I remember correctly the Chinese used to send the cost of the bullet to the family of the executed....
39

mr angry,

ayrshire 17/03/2008 12:34:08
#30 Every pound spent on junkies is a waste of money, the man was right , give them cold turkey treatment , its self inflicted , why should should we have to pay for it.
40

yolanda,

17/03/2008 12:42:23

#39 - Cold turkey treatment (abstinence based treatment) actually costs far more than methadone treatment, which probably explains why there isn't as much emphasis on abstinence treatment in the first place.

If the figures of society saving £3 for every £1 spent are accurate, I personally would prefer that it was spent and had an impact rather than nothing being done and the rest of us suffering the consequences of an even higher crime rate and social problem. The reason we have to pay for it is that it reduces the harm to society as a whole to do so.
41

Talorthane,

17/03/2008 12:44:35
37 Stu_R_20

"These people would stab and kill you for the £20 you have in your wallet, they would rob an elderly lady of her pension, they are the utter dregs of society.."

Whereas, you would shhot people for no other reason than they offend you.

I think MissH is right about you.
42

Talorthane,

17/03/2008 12:49:38
#39 Mr Angry

"Every pound spent on junkies is a waste of money"

Actually, it's not. As others have mentioned, for every £1 spent on treatment, at least £3 are saved to society. And that's a conservative estimate.

"why should should we have to pay for it."

Because it's a social issue and because not to do so would result in much greater problems to society.
43

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 12:51:39
#42
Your latter post revealed your true motives, belittling myself because I sit on the other side of the fence will do nothing for your argument.
44

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/03/2008 12:54:21
33...You are obviously a highly educated individual...'your comments are thus nullified' because I have 'no kids or a husband' and 'hate men'...I almost spat my tea out laughing at that one...In fact you must be in the field of medecine eh?...mental health? eh?...I mean you would have to be to make that instant diagnosis of my condition Dr Freung....I mean we all know that women in their forties without kids or a husband are known to hate men....stands to reason doesnt it?........

Priceless....absolutely priceless.......you'l be telling me I'm a lesbian next....or needing a good seeing to....?...no?..

The world is full of wonderful men...I despise the ones who kill, rape and abuse....and despair at the ones who criminilise women for the ills of society...

Now hurry along its time for your enema......
45

Talorthane,

17/03/2008 12:55:22
#43 Stu_R_20

"Your latter post revealed your true motives,"

Now that my motives are revealed (?) perhaps you could explain to me what they are.

"belittling myself because I sit on the other side of the fence will do nothing for your argument."

I have no control over whether you belittle yourself or not.

However, regardless of which side of whichever fence you're referring to, advocating that people be shot for having an addiction problem undermines anything else you may subsequently say.
46

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 12:58:14
#44 So I was right, and to answer your question economics and maths is my game. Mind and not scald yourself with your tea...
47

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 17/03/2008 12:59:20
#34

Eating chips is very different to someone taking heroin. If you can't see such a simple thing then you have a real problem.

Eating food is something natural. Taking heroin (which is classed as highly addictive) and expecting society to pick up the tab for your choices is selfishness personified. Also when people eat chips they don't go around killing their children. There are several cases each year of children of drug addicts being killed or harmed as a direct result of their parents drug use. (In fact I personally know of one such case 3 yrs ago)

These are the real victims - not the idiots who choose to take heroin in the first place.

I'm not sure why it is so difficult to understand that people are responsible for their own actions.

48

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/03/2008 13:01:02
In fact...re your comments, better seek some expert in mental health mate...you are obviously some kind of wannabee closet psycho....I mean you have to be to make comments like..

"If you armed me with a gun I would systematically shoot junkies and show no remorse"

I can see you have an issue with drug abusers...but how about the alcohol abusers in our society, who are also a drain on the NHS.. and the end result of criminal behaviour, whilst people are under the influence of alcohol quite frequently being robbery, assault, rape and murder....what would you do with these people?...

49

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/03/2008 13:02:58
Economics allright... economic with rationality mate... what were you right at? did I agree to your diagnosis?... actually if you read my post you will see that I did not...
50

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 13:07:18
#48
I stand by my point: If these people are running aroung full of heroin robbing who they please and breaking into whoever's house with utter disregard for the welfare of society, after a number of repeat offences the state should execute them. Although I used myself in that particular allegory this was essentially the point I was trying to demonstrate.

51

Swannie,

Allison Park PA 17/03/2008 13:11:18
Since getting into methadone treatment I have been able to resume my life as a mother grandmother and a care giver. I do medical transcipts for three drs.
Before I started taking methadone I was too sick to function well in any area of my life. Now Life is goood and I am glad to be living it again.
Fat and sitting at home doing nothing on methadone????NO WAY!!!!!!!
52

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/03/2008 13:16:44
50....I think we can see exactly the point you were trying to demonstrate, this is not China and we do not execute people for being drug addicts, which was your initial outlandish suggestion. There are drug addicts who DO recover, and who DO make a valuable contribution to society, you just dont want to believe that because it suits your views better to condemn them all.
53

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 13:21:05
and it suits your view better to let them run riot....
54

Walkerman,

17/03/2008 13:23:21
The point surely is how do we deal with drug related problems in a way that is realistic and effective. Those who talk of shootings etc and hold China up as an example of good practice might want to go to live there if that's the kind of society they want to live in. I however would prefer sensible debate by grown ups who live in the real democratic world and not a barbaric or fantasy one.

Treatment in this country SHOULD be reviewed and overhauled. If things aren't improving, we should be looking at why and changing things to make it better instead of throwing taxpayers money at it indefinitely. It is a social problem as well as a medical and criminal justice one. It impacts on our society as a whole and therefore HAS to be addressed, and the taxpaying members of society have to pay for it whether we like it or not. It's how the world works in a society like ours.

Methadone has its place I'm sure, and I know of people who hold down good jobs who are on methadone programmes, but why are so many addicts still on it years down the line? It's not supposed to be a permanent way of life.

55

sam the god,

17/03/2008 13:40:45
Stu_R_20,

As far as I am aware the Chinese still charge the families of the cost of the bullet.
There system works well found guilty (certain crimes) they walk through a door lead ballast into the back of the left ear the family pays the appropriate fee and they take the body away job done (they will not commit a crime again will they).
56

Allan(handofgod137),

17/03/2008 13:59:13
#31 ect So you'll be all in favour of men being given the same ammount of control over their genetic material that women currently enjoy, which would put an end to the "six kids by five fathers" scenario, as men would then be able to decide on whether or not they wanted a kid, and if not, then the woman would have to have an abortion. The net result of this is that we would have far fewer single slapper spending their lives on benefits, and a lot more feminazis dying alone and childless.
57

Miss H,

17/03/2008 14:04:46
47 On the other hand .... alcohol is a much bigger killer than heroin yet we don't treat alcoholics like pariahs and obesity is a much bigger killer than alcohol and heroin yet people don't suggest that fatties should be shot or forced to do cold turkey. The reason for this is that there are a lot more fat people and drunks than there are junkies.
58

Miss H,

17/03/2008 14:07:50
56 You sound nearly as nice as Psycho Stu.
59

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 14:58:27
#57
As I've noted from many of your contributions you always fail to grasp the point: Propensity to commit crime form heroin addicts far exceeds that of alcholics, although that doesn't mean I endorse the latter.
As for the fatties: They are a disgrace!
On the contrary the equivlent of cold turkey for them is a fat camp and by god we could do with them in the world's second most obese nation.
In addition, please don't assume to know anything about me, you don't. What's more, if we are assuming things about our chracter traits and/ or lifestyle, I'd be interested to know if you actually have a job, all you seem to do everyday is post on this site....
Although judging by your postings and view points I'd guess a job in local government...
60

sam the god,

17/03/2008 15:08:03
Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen other wise Doreen the Cyber Shebeen as per Fridays postings (been away all week end) what was the reason you chop and change names from memory was it something to do with Scaramouch or somebody like that you were having a set to with about who was a troll?

61

Miss H,

17/03/2008 15:44:51
59 Not clear what your point is. The number of crimes committed under the influence of alcohol is greater than the number of crimes committed under the influence of alcohol. The reason for that however is not necessarily because alcoholics have a greater propensity for crime - it is because more people drink than take heroin.
62

Allan(handofgod137),

17/03/2008 16:06:21
#58 And you sound more worried about being nice than facing the problems that your liberal attitudes have produced.
63

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 17/03/2008 17:19:04
#57

Sorry I don't get your point at all. You seem to be anxious to make those who choose to take drugs as a 'victim class' - they are not; it is other people who suffer because of their choices.

I'm puzzled by your continual reference to try and class overweight people in the same bracket as heroin addicts. We don't choose to eat food - we have to in order to survive. It is at least understandable why if there is an excess of food people can tend to put on weight. Eating is something we have to do - if we develop an addiction to certain foods (eg flour, sugar), then this is at least understandable. We are designed to eat food and need to. No-one can say 'well you shouldn't have started eating in the first place'.

But with drugs it is different. No-one is forcing the typical heroin addict to start injecting himself with what he knows is a highly addictive drug. He does so with his eyes open and with the knowledge of the consequences.

The two scenarios are entirely different - to try and equate them is clearly dishonest. The only similarity is that both have to do with addiction - but there the simularity ends.
64

BrightonRox,

Brighton 17/03/2008 17:26:47
You all make me sick.
Shoot them string them up, cold turkey.
Don't you realise that alcohol dependancy and drugs are diseases? I tried to straiten out but I lost jobs friends and got into serious debts. I need help and you lot making threats and making me feel worse about myself doesnt help.
Some people start out with a life thats not easy then facists like you scream and shout all the time. Do this do that do as your told
You made me like this I need methadone to get through a day.
65

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 17/03/2008 17:56:38
I agree it is their own fault. I agree that the behaviour of Junkies makes me sick(Recently woke up to find one in my livingroom & I would have shot him at the time if we had a Gun)

But the problem is here and we have to deal with the problem not the idealism.

Let them stay in the stinking flats wacked out on Methadone provided cheaply on NHS with some counciling and possibility of making a clean break OR let them rob you Granny to buy Smack while funding terrorisrm and prostitution, increasing the cost of house/car insurance and wasting a police time and court time.

It is like a hunger and no amount of praying and holding hands is going to make them stop so let is at least manage it.

I for one would regulate all drugs and collapse the blackmarket overnight by making it available. remove the cause of Crime (Profit) and you will remove the availability.

Fresh ideas not posturing.
66

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 18:00:58
#64
It is not a disease, get a bit of bloody willpower man! See, it is these people potraying themselves as victims that I really hate: blame it on the backround, peers, try blaming yourself!!
Cancer, Osteoperosis and the common cold, these are diseases not alcholism.
67

Miss H,

17/03/2008 18:02:58
63 I know you don't get my point but that is actually your fault not mine. People who abuse heroin are villified and people who abuse alcohol or food or cigarettes are not. No-one says why should we help people get off alcohol or lose weight or stop smoking. It is obvious why we do that. Yet people are just as responsible for their own choice to become a drunk or a fattie or a smoker as junkies are for becoming junkies. So you are applying a double standrad there on the basis I presume that heroin is illegal while drink, chips and fags aren't.
68

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 17/03/2008 18:24:27
#67
Perhaps you simply failed to read the final bit of post 63. Food and drugs are vastly different scenarios - and not to do with legality or otherwise. Your attempt to equate them is dishonest.
69

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 18:25:12
#67
Your views are so detached from reality it beggars belief....
70

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/03/2008 18:27:11
56....Absolutely with you there pal....its called a CONDOM!...I know that might come as a shock to you but they are available free to even the most tight fisted of men....the net result of this is that we would have far less sexual disease and unwanted children in the world....and far less people who are parents who really should not be...thus ensuring far less absent fathers spilling their useless seed all over the shop...

60...Still trying Sam...sorry, nae takers...I aint explaining again, not playing your game cos its boring.......been in the pub all weekend eh?....hope you aint one of those horrid fellows who has an alcohol issue?.....might just have to line you up again a wa'
71

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/03/2008 18:29:03
Please remember folks, a lot of our heroin addicts started as adolescents...when you do not really have a brain worth mentioning...are easily influenced, and could quite easily be YOUR child/brother/sister/neice/nephew some day...
72

Miss H,

17/03/2008 18:39:17
68 Is alcohol food? Are cigarettes food?
73

Miss H,

17/03/2008 18:41:13
69 Coming from you that's a compliment oh psychotic one.
74

Stu_R_20,

17/03/2008 19:00:24
#73
Think what you want love.
My advice for you: Be less lazy, more productive at work, less time on the web, maybe read something: Expand your small mind.
75

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 17/03/2008 19:13:06
The problem seems to be we are soo busy arguing over how to judge the junkies no one wants to fix the problem.

I want the junkies off the street and no longer robbing to feed habit. I then no longer have to think about them or stand beside them in the chemist.

No needles in Parks, etc, etc.

But we are all to interested in whether it is a disease/syndrome or idleness. Who cares it is here and its a big bloody problem.

Easiest way to eradicate junkies and the mess they cause is control the drugs market and remove it from the gangsters and terrorists.

Smack is cheap to make, cheap to process problem solved. Treat them like lepours and outcasts yes but treat them also. Otherwise they are climbing in your grannies bedroom window to rob. Pointing the figure has so far failed.
76

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/03/2008 19:17:05
And the comments score so far is..

Stu_R_20 - 12

Ms H - 11


Looks like you need to take some of your own advice Stu me old son.....

77

Furchrissake,

17/03/2008 19:19:17
20#
You really are a disgusting piece of lowlife and you should be put down.

In each of the examples you mentioned slagging off women, it was a MAN who abducted the woman's child, a MAN who raped the 15 year old and MEN who raped the unconscious woman.

I don't know whose air you breathe, but I hope to christ it's not mine here in Scotland.
78

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 17/03/2008 19:29:20
#72 "Is alcohol food? Are cigarettes food?"

No. I've not mentioned alcohol or cigs.

I'll repeat my complete puzzlement at what you are trying to say re food. Let me repeat:

I'm puzzled by your continual reference to try and class overweight people in the same bracket as heroin addicts. We don't choose to eat food - we have to in order to survive. It is at least understandable why if there is an excess of food people can tend to put on weight. Eating is something we have to do - if we develop an addiction to certain foods (eg flour, sugar), then this is at least understandable. We are designed to eat food and need to. No-one can say 'well you shouldn't have started eating in the first place'.

But with drugs it is different. No-one is forcing the typical heroin addict to start injecting himself with what he knows is a highly addictive drug. He does so with his eyes open and with the knowledge of the consequences.

The two scenarios are entirely different - to try and equate them is clearly dishonest. The only similarity is that both have to do with addiction - but there the simularity ends.


79

John Blackley,

Florida 17/03/2008 20:18:24
To those earlier commenters who equated heroin addiction with diabetes, please don't do so again on this forum. Diabetes sufferers that I know find it highly offensive to be classed with heroin addicts and you open your own argument up to ridicule by making the comparison.
80

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 17/03/2008 20:24:55
"I am a Methadone Maintenance Treatment patient and I find this to be very, very obnoxious and quite frankly immature and rude."

#12.

Maybe you could tell us what the "mature" part of taking Drugs is then?

Cold Turkey is the BEST and only cure for Drug users.

If some immature, idiot wants to get out of their head on Methadone or any other Drug why should the Taxpayer pay for their disgusting habit?

81

sam the god,

17/03/2008 20:44:17
#70 Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen

Pub was Friday night spent the rest of the weekend away hunting deer and fishing
82

jules27,

uk 17/03/2008 21:07:45
OK I just had to join in with this disscusion.alot of people on here do not understand addiction,it IS a PROVEN illness,i am a methadone maintence patient,I dont go out looking for drugs on the street,i have never took heroin.My problem began a few year ago,i smashed my knee in an accident and was on very strong painkillers as i was in pure agony(codeine was the tablet) after the surgery it left me with severe nerve damage and i continued with the pills,over the next 2 years i must have got used to them and i had to take more and more,the most i was supposed to take was 8 per day yet i was taking 20-26 sumdays,yeah i shouldnt have done it and yeah i knew what i was doing and that it was wrong but when your lying in bed in agony and you gotta be up in a few hours for work(yes i do work) you will take an extra pill just to help you get a bit sleep,1 extra started then it was 2 extra and on and on...i confessed all of this to my doc before xmas last year and he wasnt understanding at all,just stopped my pills and the cold turkey kicked in,i tried and tried to do it alone but after i walked to the beach and nearly jumped off the pier i knew i couldnt do it alone.I saw a special drug counseller and am now steady on meth,its totally changed my life,i am back to work,and have a good life and only my parents know i am on it.it is NO DIFFERENT to taking treatment for say..high blood pressure.so am i a fat awful junkie am i???
83

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/03/2008 22:12:53
82..Your doctor is a bit of a doughball...any self respecting quack would refer you for support and gradually take you off a drug....

The condemnation of the pious wid make ye boak....
84

beckypumps1,

Fife 17/03/2008 22:23:39
3 and 16 spot on well said.
85

,

18/03/2008 00:00:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
86

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 18/03/2008 00:35:40
This indicates the difference between the SNP's 'Intelligent Government' where spokesmen consult experts and or the voters before making major announcements.

Bill, who probably now regrets his incursion into this matter, has much to learn about the new politics. Not one expert agrees with him. Bill represents old style government north and south of the border.

He and others should take heed of Prime Minister Salmond's Government and watch how they go about their business, especially in the field of public announcements.......Professor Harvie not withstanding of course.....perhaps that's why he's not in the cabinet.
87

jules27,

uk 18/03/2008 09:29:50
I have only been on it since 31st jan 2008.i was on 30mls and 2 weeks ago i reduced to 28mls and i am fine.
88

Miss H,

18/03/2008 09:52:55
78 But I did mention alcohol, I did mention cigarettes and I did mention food. My point is a simple one – that people can abuse all kinds of substances, both legal and illegal, and can become addicted to all kinds of substances whether legal, illegal, necessary or unnecessary. Water, if taken in sufficient quantities, can kill you. So simplistic arguments about why people become involved in substance abuse and why people fall into addiction are never going to get us anywhere and are pointless – though such discussions may well provide some relief for particular individuals who are addicted to feeling superior to others.
89

Maurice,

Fife 18/03/2008 12:19:24
Complete de-toxification using purgatives and a sustained inability to access drugs is the only way to overcome addiction suplemented with intense councelling and hard work. Jail is the perfect place for junkies to clean up but society and its softy, softy, "shame-its-not-their-fault poor darlings" approach is screwing it up for them. Often they become worse cos drugs are available, theyre bored and idle in prison and the influence from less-deireables is strong. Labour camps would help these people and relieve the tax burden on society when roads are being repaired, rubbish removed, etc etc plus some junkies may even develop skills for when they are finally releived of their addictions.
Instead society mollycoddles this trash to preserve their human rights although they bring no humanity to society.
A junkie deserves help, yes but sympathy, no! And definitely not supplamentry drugs till they can get their clutches into some smack again
90

Tynietiger,

08/04/2008 08:44:34
This is the same Labour MSP Dr Richard Simpson who called striking fireman B**TARDs then lost his seat.
91

James Dickson,

Mozambique 24/04/2008 07:16:30
A heroin addict has a SELF INFLICTED desease and only have themselves to blame, yet we cannot treat as an example cancer sufferers in a lot of cases as there is no money available and yet their desease is not in most cases self inflicted. So I agree put the junkie on a remote island with accommodation etc. but no methadone and let them come out of it and fewer would be back for a second dose.

 

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