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With Alex Salmond livid over his televised election debate snub, Political Editor Ian Swanson examines what all the fuss is about

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Published Date: 12 March 2010
ALEX Salmond is not happy. Voters are about to be treated to the first ever televised pre-election leaders' debates, but he will not be included.


Mr Salmond and his SNP colleagues have been making their dismay clear since plans for the three debates were announced just before Christmas, with the row set to explode again today after meetings in Edinburgh between Mr Salmond and BBC and ITV bosses.

If the situation is not resolved, the SNP could end up going to court.

Mr Salmond has claimed the broadcasters are endangering a free election by refusing to allow the Nationalists to take part and he even quoted the European Convention on Human Rights, prompting one newspaper to run the headline "It's everyone's human right to see me on TV" along with a picture of a determined Mr Salmond.

Under the plans, there are to be three debates, on ITV, Sky and BBC, expected to run weekly from 15 April. Gordon Brown, David Cameron and Nick Clegg will answer questions from voters and debate with each other, without Mr Salmond.

The arguments have been well rehearsed. The SNP says it is unacceptable that the party of government in Scotland should be excluded from debates which are broadcast here.

The other parties claim the debates are about choosing who will be Prime Minister and Mr Salmond is not in the running. The SNP respond that Nick Clegg is not, either.

At one point, Mr Salmond thought he had a deal with Sky that would allow him to cross-examine the other three leaders as part of the programme.

But that now seems likely to fall through and the SNP will be left with only the promise of airtime in news bulletins and programmes like Newsnight in which to comment on the debates.

There will, of course, be TV debates in Scotland between the leaders of the Scottish parties. But these are a well-established feature of Scottish election campaigns and no compensation for missing out on the main event.

It was never realistic to expect Mr Salmond, with just seven MPs, to be given equal billing with the other three leaders and the chance to broadcast into homes in every part of the UK.

But some compromise, allowing the SNP some input into the programmes, or a special "prime ministerial" debate for Scotland, should have been possible.

The Nationalists reasonably point out that the first of the debates, which focuses on domestic issues, will mean viewers in Scotland having to listen to discussion of education, health and justice policies which simply do not apply here because of devolution – a recipe for confusion.

But the SNP's exclusion aside, how important are these debates?

Up to ten million people are expected to watch, but a welter of detailed rules and restrictions threaten to quash any sign of spontaneity.

Clapping is out, booing is banned and heckling will not be allowed.

Questions will come from members of the studio audience and the wider public e-mailing in, but they will be selected in advance by a panel of journalists.

There will also be tight time limits for the politicians' answers, their responses to each other and general debate.

The leaders will also have spent endless hours in preparation before each debate, trying to anticipate every possible question and guard against any gaffes.

The spin doctors and image consultants have learned from the experience of televised debates in the United States.

The first televised presidential debate was held in Chicago in 1960 between the Democrats' John F Kennedy and Republican vice-president Richard Nixon.

Famously, those who listened on radio thought Nixon had won, while those who watched it on TV and saw the vice- president's haggard appearance – blamed on poor make-up and five o'clock shadow – gave the debate to Kennedy.

The eventual election result was very close and some claimed Kennedy's victory was at least in part due to the debate.

There were no televised debates in the next three American elections – 1964, 1968 or 1972 – but, in 1976, President Gerald Ford blundered during a televised clash with Democrat challenger Jimmy Carter when he claimed: "There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe and there never will be under a Ford administration." The polls swung to Carter, who went on to win the White House.

As an actor, Ronald Reagan was more comfortable in front of the camera than Carter when they clashed in 1980 and he pulled ahead after their TV debate.

But there have been few memorable moments in more recent presidential debates and the chances are that will be the case with the British debates, too.

Despite all the hype, anyone expecting to tune in for a feature-length Prime Minister's Question Time is going to be disappointed. The debates will look pretty tame compared with the weekly no-holds-barred exchanges between Messrs Brown and Cameron in the Commons.

The agreement to include Nick Clegg in the debates is a huge boost for the Liberal Democrats. Unless he messes up completely, he is guaranteed to gain simply from taking part. Just his presence on the stage sends a message to voters that they have a choice of three, not two.

That's why the SNP is so upset at being excluded. Mr Salmond's target of 20 MPs may be looking more and more ambitious as time goes on, but if Nationalists are to win a respectable number of seats, they have to have a profile. And that's what TV provides – even if everyone quickly gets bored.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 12 March 2010 11:55 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

abner doubleday,

Haymarket 12/03/2010 12:28:44

"Alex Salmond is not happy"?

So which of the Seven Dwarves is he??


.
2

abner doubleday,

Haymarket 12/03/2010 12:32:45

Can only be a good thing though.

Abolish student loans - check.

Local income tax - check.

Freeze Council Tax but put up prices by more than inflation for all Council services - check.

Embarrass your party and Scotland at every first minister's question time - check.

.
3

foz,

South London 12/03/2010 12:54:20
Who is he?
4

TankEngine,

Edinburgh 12/03/2010 12:56:53
What's the pieman moaning at? Is he standing in the general election? No, so shut the f**k up.
5

Gruntfuttock,

12/03/2010 13:01:06
The BBC should call Salmond's bluff. Expose him to the entire population of the UK. Let him prove beyond all doubt that he is in the second league when it comes to politics. If he goes into his usual rant, cant, hyperbole and gripe mode, this will be a massive turn-off for most voters. Salmond is rapidly becoming an embarrassment- he only represents a minority view in Scotland and yet he thinks he has the right to preach his message of greed and grievance to the entire UK. Bring it on!
6

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 13:19:31
#5

"Salmond is rapidly becoming an embarrassment- he only represents a minority view in Scotland and yet he thinks he has the right to preach his message of greed and grievance to the entire UK"

Correct. It seems his massive ego has got the better of him.

He is vastly inflating his own self-importance if he thinks he 'deserves' a place alongside these 3 potential PMs who lead major UK parties.

As you say, only a minority of people vote SNP in Scotland.

Why on earth should the rest of the UK (91% of whom can't even vote SNP) be forced to listen to the views of a minor party leader who has zero chance of being PM and who isn't even standing in the election!

The SNP are seriously embarrassing themselves with their repeated and desperate attempts to hijack these debates.
7

Marian,

12/03/2010 13:22:04
The truth of the matter is that the BBC didn't even have the courtesy to discuss this with the SNP in the first place. Now we're going to have three debates, one will be on what are effectively domestic issues and most of that will involve devolved areas of responsibility and so the debate will have little relevance to Scotland. The other one will be about the economy about half of which will be relevant to Scotland unless they are going to blank out the bits that are not relevant to Scotland. The BBC's proposal effectively disenfranchises the people of Scotland and Wales. The format as currently devised makes no allowances for the reality of the devolution settlement which sees the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly - and indeed the Northern Irish Assembly - responsible for a number of key policy areas including health and education. This fails to meet the needs of three of the constituent nations of the United Kingdom because as yet, no satisfactory measures have been put in place to ensure that balanced coverage, reflecting the different political make-up of the United Kingdom.
8

Soosider,

Glasgow 12/03/2010 13:22:39
As the article states "The Nationalists reasonably point out that the first of the debates, which focuses on domestic issues, will mean viewers in Scotland having to listen to discussion of education, health and justice policies which simply do not apply here because of devolution – a recipe for confusion."

However there are very fundamental issues at stake here. Firstly our democracy is not base on a "presidential" type election, this debate reduces selection of a constitutional MP to no more than some form of "reality show". In this country we eelct our MPs the party with the most is asked to form a government.
By excluding major parties in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, this gives an unfair advantage to the 3 parties involved in the "leaders" debate. This is bedrock stuff in our democracy that media coverage is fair and reasonable to all major parties, in Scotland there are 4, likewise in Wales, in Northern Ireland the three parties do not have any candidates.

I accept that England forms the largest part of the Union but this should be interpreted as allowing the BBC, ITV and SKY to ignore their obligations under law.

This article correctly highlights that the profile of the three parties is increased by there participation and those of other parties diminished, this is fundamentally unfair and unreasonable.
9

Grahamski,

Falkirk 12/03/2010 13:24:35
This has become a huge embarrassment for the SNP.

The more the SNP demand that Mr Salmond should take part in these debates the more ridiculous those demands look.

The more the SNP say that Scotland is being excluded if Mr salmond isn't included the more Scots say 'Wait a minute, Mr Salmond isn't Scotland and anybody who thinks he is is mental'.
10

Grahamski,

Falkirk 12/03/2010 13:25:30
8

Soosider,

"However there are very fundamental issues at stake here. Firstly our democracy is not base on a "presidential" type election"

ALEX SALMOND FOR FIRST MINISTER

Shurely shome mishtake?
11

Grahamski,

Falkirk 12/03/2010 13:27:41
7.

Marian,


"The BBC's proposal effectively disenfranchises the people of Scotland and Wales."

Please explain how Mr Salmond not taking part in a debate about an election in which he is not standing disenfranchises me.

12

Grahamski,

Falkirk 12/03/2010 13:31:13
7

Marian,

"The other one will be about the economy about half of which will be relevant to Scotland"

Why will only about a half of the economic debate be relevant to Scotland?
13

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 13:32:30
#7

"one will be on what are effectively domestic issues and most of that will involve devolved areas of responsibility and so the debate will have little relevance to Scotland"

From the subjects listed to be discussed in the domestic affairs debate only the NHS, education and parts of law and order will not be relevant to Scotland.

The rest of the debate - immigration, parts of law and order, political reform, trust in politics, family and the constitution will all be relevant to Scotland.
14

Grahamski,

Falkirk 12/03/2010 13:33:56
7

Marian

"The format as currently devised makes no allowances for the reality of the devolution settlement which sees the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly - and indeed the Northern Irish Assembly - "

Doesn't the format include three debates a piece exclusively about Welsh, Irish and Scottish issues?
15

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 13:34:18
#7

"The other one will be about the economy about half of which will be relevant to Scotland"

The economic affairs debate will cover financing of public services, taxation, debt, deficit, public finances, the recession, recovery, banking and finance, business, pensions and jobs - all of which are relevant to Scotland.
16

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 13:37:04
#7

"The BBC's proposal effectively disenfranchises the people of Scotland and Wales"

You are labouring under a misconception common amongst SNP fanatics, namely that the SNP are the same thing as Scotland, and that criticising or excluding the SNP is the same as criticising or excluding Scotland.

The reality is that the 3 parties at the debate will easily get the majority of the Scottish vote (79% last time) at the election.

The SNP represent only a minority of Scots.
17

steve 1511,

aberdeen 12/03/2010 13:40:45
in this so called democracy all parties should be on an equal footing in the tv time they recieve but not in browns stasi state britian were the norm know is to silence the people at every opportunity,why are all the debates in english cities,wales scotland n ireland all ignored,do they believe the people of these countries are second class citizens.
18

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 13:41:58
#8

"Firstly our democracy is not base on a "presidential" type election"

As Grahamski points out, the SNP and its supporters are in no position to criticise 'presidential-style' electioneering.

"This is bedrock stuff in our democracy that media coverage is fair and reasonable to all major parties"

As the BBC have already explained they will be meeting their impartiality obligations in Scotland by giving the SNP equivalent air time in other debates, on newsnight, and allowing them to respond to the debates immediately after they occur.

Parties just need equal coverage across a whole election campaign - there is no obligation for every party to get equal coverage in every political broadcast, otherwise party political broadcasts obviously wouldn't exist.
19

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 13:44:15
#17

"in this so called democracy all parties should be on an equal footing in the tv time they recieve"

As has already been pointed out, all the major parties will get equal TV time across the election campaign.
20

Pantaloon,

12/03/2010 13:52:21

Oh Alex. Despite your arrogance and high self opinion, Westminster is not 'dancing to a Scottish tune' after all. It must be terribly upsetting to be reminded that you are a nobody outwith the ranks of the adoring Nats.

Perhaps you can manipulate STV again and get them to televise you on your own. Rev I. M. Jolly style so to say.

They are happy to dance to an SNP tune. STEVE 1511 - Stasi Britain? Salmond controls influences the national tv channel, that is the most stasi thing I have ever heard of!
21

WeeGirlie,

12/03/2010 13:57:19
The GE elects the next PM. Clegg can, mathematically.

The SNP can't, even with the best effotrts of their deluded CyberNats talking them up. So no representation.

Among others not invited include the Ulster Partries, Sinn Fein and Plaid. Like the SNP they are limited to being regional parties.

Out of the debates too are the BNP, Ukip and Greens.

All parties that won more votes than the SNP at the recent Euro elections, and can also boast of having candidates across Britain.

But as they cannot win the election, it's thanks, but no thanks.

22

Vasey,

12/03/2010 14:17:01
I see the boring 2 are back again.

Only missing arf arf arf now........................
23

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 14:33:45
OFCOM regulations recognise the SNP as a major party in Scotland. Broadcasting these debates without the SNP in Scotland (as they field candidates in every seat in the GE) will breach OFCOM regulations.

There are no ifs or buts about it, that is a fact.

If the BBC choose to do their own reputation enormous damage by placing themselves in the position where they breach OFCOM regulations because they are aping Sky in running a faux American inspired leaders debate, then they will live to regret it.

Let's hope that wiser heads will prevail in that organisation, before they reach that. The dumbing down of the BBC has gone far anough.
24

West March Reiver,

Borders 12/03/2010 14:49:30
The real problem is that the televisual media no longer reflect the devolved nature of modern politics in Britain.

Newsnight led the other night (before the Scottish opt-out) with a debate on the state of English education which was totally irrelevant for those of us north of the border. At the very end of the debate, Jeremy referred viewers in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland fleetingly to some comments on the website. Very unsatisfactory - but par for the course for the London news media. Would have made much more sense to do this after the opt-out.

Similarly, an election TV debate between the three party leaders on English domestic issues which is being beamed into all Scottish homes makes no sense and , in terms of air time , is unfair for the SNP.
25

jtdx,

12/03/2010 14:50:32
#23 The BBC have said they will have special scotland only programs where you can see Mr Salmond. But they have said that the SNP is not a major party in England/Wales so they don't have to look at the man.

I reckon this is Scotlands best hope for independence though, if they have to watch a few hours of the big S in action every general election then they will soon vote to kick Scotland out of the Union!
26

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 15:00:29
25 Of course the SNP are not a major party in England and Wales. They don't stand in England and Wales. They are however a major party here, as Plaid Cymru are in Wales.

You make the mistake of thinking that the only legitimate role a leader of a political party has is trying to become the PM of a United Kingdom.

That's garbage.

Both these parties are classified as major parties in their own countries precisely because they don't want their leaders to become PM of a United Kingdom.

You and your ilk appear to be arguing that because they are not unionists, they should not have parity in the debates being held in Scotland and Wales.

That too is garbage.
27

JohnMcDonald,

London 12/03/2010 15:16:52
What a bunch. The bloggers here I mean. Clearly all sensible readers are off over at the Mercury or the Review.

And I will not be back. Toodle ooo!
28

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 15:18:47
#23

"OFCOM regulations recognise the SNP as a major party in Scotland. Broadcasting these debates without the SNP in Scotland (as they field candidates in every seat in the GE) will breach OFCOM regulations."

Ofcom regulations state that major parties (which the SNP are in Scotland) need to be given equal broadcasting time to each other over the course of an electoral campaign, NOT in every single political programme - otherwise of course party political broadcasts wouldn't exist.

Therefore there is no obligation to include the SNP in these debates as long as the coverage they get throughout the rest of the electoral campaign makes up the shortfall - The BBC have stated that they will meet their impartiality obligations in this regard.
29

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 15:20:33
#23

"If the BBC choose to do their own reputation enormous damage"

The only reputations damaged by this ongoing issue are those of the SNP and Salmond with their farcical attempts to get themselves on a debate with 3 potential PMs who lead major UK parties.

The more Salmond blusters and moans about this the more the Scottish public will realise it is all about his ego and sense of self-importance, and nothing more.
30

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 15:25:06
#24

"an election TV debate between the three party leaders on English domestic issues which is being beamed into all Scottish homes makes no sense and , in terms of air time , is unfair for the SNP"

The only purely English-only domestic issues to be discussed in the domestic debate will be the NHS and education. The rest of the debate will cover issues which wholly or partially affect Scotland.

As for air time, the SNP's shortfall will be met throughout the rest of the electoral campaign, as the BBC have made clear.

31

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 15:26:55
#26

"You and your ilk appear to be arguing that because they are not unionists, they should not have parity in the debates being held in Scotland and Wales."

Who is arguing that? I don't think anyone is saying the SNP shouldn't be taking part in the debate being held in Scotland.

As for the UK debates - they are UK-wide, it does not make any sense for 91% of the UK to have to listen to the views of a party they can't even vote for.
32

West March Reiver,

Borders 12/03/2010 15:45:37
#30

"The only purely English-only domestic issues to be discussed in the domestic debate will be the NHS and education. The rest of the debate will cover issues which wholly or partially affect Scotland."

Probably the two single most important issues within this election outside of the economy ! And what about policing and the judicial system ? Last time I checked, Kenny MacAskill was looking after these for us in Scotland. (A thankless task)
33

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 15:58:35
#32

"Probably the two single most important issues within this election outside of the economy!"

Er....not in Scotland they aren't. Education and the NHS are devolved to the Scottish Parliament, this is an election for the UK Parliament, which has no jurisdiction over Scottish education or health.

"And what about policing and the judicial system?"

As I said, the rest of the debate will be wholly OR partially relevant to Scotland - parts of law and order overseen by the UK Parliament (drug classification for example) are relevant to Scotland.
34

The west awake,

Argyll 12/03/2010 16:01:25
How the Unionists (at every level) hate oor Alex, and no wonder I suppose, everything used to be so simple when they could rely on some supine Labour deadhead "in charge", Lol of us before the "calamity" of May 07.

Now we have Salmond, not only standing up for Scotland at every occasion, but doing so elequently and powerfully. Popular in Scotland like the others can only dream of and head and shoulders above Toxic Gordon, Eton Toff Cameron and whassisname.
In the Uncle Tam days, we wouldn't have heard a cheep about this. They knew our place and the McConnells of this world agreed.

Just think Unionists - this is the the situation and you have all the machinations of the British State and media on your side. How popular would the SNP be with a fair system?
35

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 16:08:45
#34

"Popular in Scotland like the others can only dream of"

Is that right? Perhaps then you could explain the poll from earlier this month, as reported in the Times?:

"Alex Salmond’s popularity among Scots voters has plunged while Gordon Brown’s standing has undergone a dramatic comeback...the First Minister’s voter satisfaction ratings are down by 9 percentage points from only six months ago, while the Prime Minister’s have risen by 9 in the same period and are now slightly ahead of the SNP leader"

Of course he is popular amongst you SNP fanatics as your anointed, 'glorious', supreme leader, but popular amongst the rest of us normal Scots? It appears not...
36

West March Reiver,

Borders 12/03/2010 16:10:42
#33

"Er....not in Scotland they aren't. Education and the NHS are devolved to the Scottish Parliament, this is an election for the UK Parliament, which has no jurisdiction over Scottish education or health."

Exactly ! So what's the point of presenting this essentially English debate to Scottish viewers ? That's the format that's been agreed for the whole of the UK. I don't doubt that there will be a separate Scottish-only debate but this supposedly UK-wide debate is a deeply flawed and confusing format especially for those voters who haven't quite grasped which administration (Westminster or Holyrood) is responsible for what.
37

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 16:14:56
#36

"Exactly ! So what's the point of presenting this essentially English debate to Scottish viewers?"

Er...because as I have already pointed out, only 2 out of 10 or so domestic subjects to be debated will be purely English-only.

Perhaps as a solution, the parts where they discuss the NHS and education could be bleeped out so as not to confuse those voters in Scotland who haven't quite grasped how devolution works (despite 10 years of it).
38

The west awake,

Argyll 12/03/2010 16:22:48
35 - I took the results from the many, many polls previously showing massive support for Salmond with a pinch of salt. You should do the same.
If you are impressed with your man Brown, then I'm happy for you. I'll take mine any day.
Anyway my main point was that nowadays the Brits can't take Scotland for granted.
As a Scot you should be glad. Or would you REALLY prefer the return of the Uncle Tams? Really?
39

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 16:28:42
The SNP are not confined to talking about devolved matters.

They are standing candidates in every Scottish seat.

They are a major party in Scotland who according to OFCOM's own regs must be given parity with the other parties standing on programmes like these being broadcast in Scotland. Ditto Plaid in Wales.

The fact that neither the SNP nor Plaid Cymru want to govern the UK is irrelevant to this debate.

Jeez, why is that so hard for some folks to understand.

D'oh.
40

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 16:45:52
#38

"I took the results from the many, many polls previously showing massive support for Salmond with a pinch of salt"

Er...if you don't believe the polls on Salmond where on earth did you get the information on which you based your "Popular in Scotland like the others can only dream of" claim from?

"If you are impressed with your man Brown"

He isn't 'my' man and I'm not impressed with him.
41

Yeah1,

12/03/2010 17:05:07
#39

"They are standing candidates in every Scottish seat."

These are UK debates, not just Scottish ones - they aren't standing candidates in 91% of UK seats.

"They are a major party in Scotland who according to OFCOM's own regs must be given parity with the other parties standing on programmes like these being broadcast in Scotland"

There is nothing in Ofcom's broadcasting code stating that major parties must be given equal coverage on every single programme.

All it states is that:

"Due weight must be given to the coverage of major parties during the election period"

In other words as long as the SNP get the same total amount of coverage during the whole election campaign as the other parties there is nothing to worry about.
42

Your Move,

12/03/2010 17:19:29
The west awake # 38

The fact that the Scottish population do not support the SNP or Salmond does not make them "Uncle Tams."
The use of that term emphasises your racist propensities. The sort of racism that sees English people victimised by so called "Scottish nationalists" up and down Scotland. Racists and sectarianists, like you, are Scotland's shame; two sides of the same coin.

Having said that I hope Scotland give them a good kicking tomorrow at Murrayfield!
43

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 12/03/2010 17:30:00
41 Tell me when Lord tell me when!
44

Your Move,

12/03/2010 17:30:25

As soon as the UK General Election is called Salmond ceases to be an MP.
Salmond, says he is not standing as a UK MP again, so, why is he entitled to feature in a TV debate with those who are standing for Parliament and who have a chance of being PM in the next UK Parliament?
Is there no one in the SNP who can satisfy Salmond's overweaning ego? Salmond's ego will destroy Salmond, it is a question of whom he will take with him!
45

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 17:40:29
41 Yes OFCOM says that due weight must be given to the major parties during the elction period. That is why broadcasting these debates will break the rules in Scotland, and Wales.

It's really very simple if you are a major party you have to be given the opportunity to state your case when the other major parties are being given that opportunity. As the SNP, like Plaid, will have policies on reserved matters as well as devolved ones they are entitled to explore these policies during any debate which covers these subjects which is broadcast in Scotland or Wales.

It really isn't rocket science.
46

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 12/03/2010 17:41:31
44 Well because it's a leaders debate (Sorry renamed recently by the BBC as Prime Ministers debate,although we do elect a PM strange that!)



47

1st Minister,

Brigadoon 12/03/2010 17:58:19
Aye, Cybernats? Most of the above posts are from cyberbrits, ie: Labour Activists! What an embarrassment to Scotland you all are, from an Englishman who is desperate for a Scottish passport once Scotland becomes Independent.
48

eck788,

Leven 12/03/2010 18:27:54
The format of the debates is anything but clear.

The party leaders are to debate questions from the electorate,as I understand it represenatives of the electorate will be absent.

So as normal these days, we are to take it on trust that the questions are real and not contrived to create interesting TV ??

Mr Salmonds tactics are obvious???
49

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 18:59:46
Good to see Grahamski has recovered from his dreadful dummy spitting, hate blogging yesterday taht led to him being deleted from the threads!

I quite agree with Grahasmki that the SNP wanting equal coverage is a total embarassment that eclipses the last weeks stories of Labour MPs being charged with fraud, a Labour council leader snortling cocaine and making abusive calls from his taxpayer funded phone so nasty the phone was cut off, Labour cabinet ministers flipping second homes and downlaoding porn and a Labour PM revealed as a bullying rage filled man on the edge!
50

JC1,

Glasgow 12/03/2010 19:03:28
salmond as usual embarresses Scotland. I sometimes thin kthat deep down, nats actually hate their place of origin in some odd way.

Anyway, the main reason he's doing this is to try to give the BBC a kicking for whatever purpose.
51

ExpatNL,

glasgow 12/03/2010 19:07:05
Yeah1, ad nauseam

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
52

eck788,

Leven 12/03/2010 19:08:39
The leaders will also have spent endless hours in preparation before each debate, trying to anticipate every possible question and guard against any gaffes.

So no change to the reality show format. "Who wants to be a Prime Minister". All for the TV ratings and nothing about DEMOCRACY.
53

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 19:18:16
50. JC1 says "salmond as usual embarresses Scotland"

apart from the spelling, I agree!


While Jim Devine and other Labour MPs are today in court arguing they can't be held accountable for theft and fraud from gouging taxpayers for fabricated expenses, and in the week Scotland's highest profile Labour council leader was revealed to a coks snorting, abusive phone call making, falling in river while fleeing rehab, gangster associating muppet, it is Salmond who is an embarrassment!

New Labour - New Spin!
54

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 19:18:42
53. Coke, not coks
55

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 19:26:26
When the big domestic debate is held it will have no relevance to Scotland.

But who cares? Its only Scotland, and the election will be decided in England.

And the three big UK debates will be held in England.

But who cares? Scotland is a minority in the UK, a sidekick, an afterthought.

Everyone - three cheers for the union.
56

eck788,

Leven 12/03/2010 19:29:18
It is not only the Scotish electorate that the TV companies are taking the phish out of.
There are large numbers of voters around Britain who increasingly reject all of the leaders taking part. In this farce
"None of the above party" 8.9 million, did not vote for any candidate put forward. This example was the 1997 general election.
57

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 19:31:38
THIS is the BBC - we now go Live to Manchester for the UK Leaders debate.

Viewers in Scotland are advised to switch off - this need not concern you.

But who cares? Do Scottish Labour care? The Tories? The LIb Dems?

Who cares?
58

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 19:34:24
57. "But who cares? Do Scottish Labour care?"

How rude. Jim Devine, MP is busy battling fruad charges, Cllr Purcell is busy fleeing the country after nose-bagging gak while running our biggest council and Gordon has been revealed as a figure of bullying, unstable rage that even Douglas Alexander Mp can't stand.

When we in Scottish Labour work through these important issues we may gave a fig about the economy or fair conduct of an election or even people in Scotland being involved!
59

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 19:39:24
The Three UK LEADERS debate will have three seperate debates around the UNITED KINGDOM.

FIRST debate in England

SECOND debate in England

THIRD debate in England.

TOUR OVER
60

Marian,

12/03/2010 19:54:37
The SNP are more than likely going to win an injunction to stop the so called "3 leaders debates" being televised in Scotland if the SNP decides to take legal action - an option which they are still considering by the way.
61

,

12/03/2010 20:33:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
62

,

12/03/2010 21:03:46
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
63

Your Move,

12/03/2010 21:09:22
Please enter a different name # 61

Salmond should be ignored by all sensible people. If Salmond never appeared on the television never, ever, ever again, in what way would he be missed?
The UK population will just have to risk the wrath of SNP supporters who miss Salmond on the television.
Anyway, with all the support that the SNP have I am surprised that they don't have a television station of their own and a whole stable of newspapers fawning over Salmond!
64

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 21:13:41
Your Move

Your know nothing about Alex Salmond.

He pays his MSP salary to charity - not the bookies.

He does occasionaly have a flutter - but you are throwing around baseless accusations without evidence.

It is you sir that is a disagrace.
65

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 21:15:13
It is a scandal that Scotland in 2010 has a First Minister who is forced to keep his position to pay off bookmakers. Does Salmond hate himself and the Scottish people so much that he has to gamble and lose so much of the money that we pay him, losing fortunes, money that should be better spent on poor people in Scotland that the SNP say they want to help. Yeah!
----------------------------------------
I think that is actually defamatory.

66

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 21:20:31
65. Observant

now, now. Just because Your Move is full of impotent fury, because Labour MPs are up on fraud charges, Labour council leaders have fled the council after snorklind coke and using taxpayer funded phones for abusing phone company staff and the Labour PM is exposed as someone who manhandles public employees and shouts paranoid muppetry at them, you should allow him to vent his Damien McBride Hate Blogger extremism!

New Labour - New Hate Blogging and Spinning!
67

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 21:28:27
62/63 Your AM2 Move

great posts.

Hopefully the Nats will get worked up over these defamatory posts which will be deleted and we can then complain about Nat posts!

McBride, McPoison, New Labour - Hate Blogging and Spin Squared!
68

Your Move,

12/03/2010 21:30:15
Observant in Glasgow, # 65

I still remember your advice on consuming mushrooms. Any comebacks there? How many dead after your post?

If Salmond thinks that anything I have said is actionable, then I await his response, not yours. Salmond will not pursue, you can if you want!

69

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 21:30:42
66 He's a vile blogger indeed.
70

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 21:32:21
68 I am just pointing out that you are a vile blogger who has posted defamation on the pages of the Scotsman, for which they have vicarious liability.

I fail to see the relevance of mushrooms.
71

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 21:34:21
Purcell fleeing the country - FINE

McConnell spending 70K trotting around the globe - FINE

Jim Devine accused of fraudulant expenses - FINE

Alex Salmond bet on a horse last weekend - SCANDAL

YOUR MOVE - are u wired to the moon?


72

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 21:34:47
68/ Your Move

nice one and great posts!

I think imaginary comment of Alex Salmond's betting will totally distract from our London Labour council leader snorting coke and cavorting with gansters after being warned by the police, our Labour MPs in court today for sleaze gouging of taxpayers on expenses fiddle theft and Gordon being described as a raging and abusive man on the edge!

Well done.
73

Your Move,

12/03/2010 21:35:57
Union is Better # 66

Salmond is the most impotent leader in Scottish history. His support is just like their leader, not interested in sex.
Who would risk it with them anyway?
Do you know of anyone?
74

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 21:37:02
71/ Thomas

how dare you.

We in London Labour have adopted hate blogging and swivel eyed cyber spin as our best defense!

Just because a Labour MP expensed a new bell tower (and keeps the Labour whip), just because 10 Labour parliamentarians are up on outrageous fraud, theft sleaze allegations, just because a Labour council leader snorkled coke and gibbered like a muppet......

means nothing if we in London Labour post a few McBride type, hate blog Bookie posts!
75

scothighland 2,

highlands 12/03/2010 21:37:24
I see all the clowns are out on this one can nobody see that if the leaders debates go to subjects like health, education, etc, etc the westminster government can not make promises for devolved issues.That is why if these debates are to be televised nationally then The SNP Plaid Cymru and possibly the DUP an Sinn fein who are all in government at devolved level should be on the same platform.And before anyone says that none of their leaders will become UK prime minister then neither will nick Clegg just for arguments sake.
This is one of the arguments against devolution this is why independence might not be such a bad thing.
76

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 21:37:50
73 Sexual smears to go with your vile blogging and defamation on the pages of the Scotsman.

Interesting.
77

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 21:38:25
73. Your Move

great post - worthy of Labour MP Nigel Griffiths, doing it in his taxpayer funded office and recording it on his taxpayer funded laptop, and Labour cabinet minister Ron Davies who likes badgers...alot.

Avanti New Labour!
78

Your Move,

12/03/2010 21:38:41

Salmond groupies?
Union is Better ++ ?
79

Your Move,

12/03/2010 21:40:29
Observant in Glasgow # 76

It is only a smear if it is not true.
Salmond, the bearded man!
80

Andrew,

12/03/2010 21:42:18
This "Humpty Dumpty" WILL have a great fall! Cracked and with egg on his face!
81

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 21:43:46
Your Move

Are u wired to the moon?

You appear to be making things up in your head.

Is it time for the medicine?



82

Your Move,

12/03/2010 21:46:36
Union is Better, # 77

You are clearly comparing Salmonds activities with those of Nigel Griffiths.
Is that why Salmond is giving up his seat in Westminster before he is outed? It must be bad for Salmond to give up all that cash.
83

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 21:47:18
78. Another great post!

I being in London Labour have no time for Salmond!

I am far too busy supporting the vitally important constitutional principle Jim Devine MP and his fellow accused (theft via fraud was the charge I think) Labour MPs have been in court today fighting for - the right for sleaze expense Labour troughers to steal and not be put on trial because of a 400 year old law! A vital New Labour prioirty, i hope you agree!

Meanwhile lets criticise extreme SNP web posters!
84

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 21:47:50
79 If you're stating it's true then that's more defamation.

Oh dear.
85

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 21:49:48
82 As he gives the majority up to charity anyway, that post is misrepresentation.

Misrepresentation, defamation, sexual smears - is there anything else you would like to add to your vile blogging profile?
86

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 21:50:24
82. Your Move

Nigel Griffiths, Labour MP, used his taxpayer funded office to have a wee sordid shuffle and filmed it on his taxpayer funded laptop.

Ron Davies was the Labour cabinet minister who used his government car to visit gay cruising grounds, meet "new pals" who then stole his car, and then visit various motorway parkings to go "badger spotting"

Jacuqi Davies was the Labour cabinet minister who used taxpayer sleaze gouging expenses to claim for porno films.

Alex Salmond is just the nasty First Minister of Scotland who has no right to the office as we in london labour own Scotland!

Avanti London Labour Hate Blogging and Spin!
87

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 21:51:30
85. Typical post of the nasty demented SNP hate blogger, commenting on perfectly reasonable posts from a Labour supporter like Your Move who has reasonably just invented stuff!
88

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:00:49
Observant in Glasgow # 84

Are you Salmond's Govanhill lawyer?
I don't care what Salmond does to whom, you clearly do. So much that you want to defend him. Good luck to you. Where I see inconsistency in Salmond's behaviours, I will ask questions.
Salmond has questions to answer, why do you not ask Salmond those questions? An honest person would answer those questions honestly, instead of having truly ignorant individuals attempting to answer, without knowledge, those questions on his behalf.
You don't know Samond, why do you feel so confident in your defence of him?
89

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 22:04:15
YOUR MOVE

Let us all take a step into the world of Your Move.

A world where Alex Salmond is hanging around bookies trying to sell his shoes.

A world where Your Move and Archangel Jim Devine attempt to save Scotland from the evil SNP and their supporters.

Its sounds like a mission for Iain Gray, Wendy Alexander and Lord Foulkes - aka the three Amigos.

The WORLD OF YOUR MOVE.
90

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:05:05
Union is Better # 87

I am sure, that in Salmond's Scottish totalitarian utopia, there will be places for "demented" people who see through the SNP and Salmond.
Will waterboarding be a part of the therapy for people who oppose the SNP?
91

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:05:10
88..... and then Your Move said, pass the council funded crack pipe please Stephen, snort sniff....

New Labour Paranoid Hate Posting - The Election is All About Character (G. Brown, March 11 2010)
92

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:06:04
88 I am not defending Mr Salmond; I merely enquire why a vile blogger such as yourself feels it necessary to post sexual smears, innuendo, misrepresentation, and defamation on the pages of the Scotsman newspaper.
93

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:07:26
90 More defamation the SNP are left of centre social democrats.

Waterboarding is not an activity associated with the SNP.
94

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:07:47
Thomas79 # 89

Does Salmond wear shoes?
He is living proof then that old dogs can learn new tricks. Bitches beware ...!
95

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:10:25
I see your vile and defamatory post at 62 has been deleted (just as well I have saved it, I have started a little collection).
96

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:10:28
93. "Waterboarding is not an activity associated with the SNP."

True, waterboarding is for robust parties, like we in New Labour, who sanction rendition and torture at Guantanamo! And detention of children at Dungavel!

New Labour - New Human Rights Centred Foreign Policy
97

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 22:11:14
YOUR MOVE

If u say Salmond does not wear shoes I believe you.

After all you sound like a well grounded, fair and non biased person, right?

I think I seen Alex Salmond Busking for his bookies money the other day.

You believe that too don't you.

Strange man.
98

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:11:16
95. I started a collection too.

I hope no one puts the collection together and asks Labour politicians who comment on "Cyber nastyness" to comment on it!!
99

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:11:56
Observant in Glasgow # 92/93

I haven't posted any smears. I have asked questions that you were afraid to ask.

"Waterboarding is not an activity associated with the SNP."
How on Earth do they recruit people then? It can't be because of Salmond's personality.
100

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:12:16
#62. Oh dear, just like yesterday, our vile, DLondon Labour Spin Damien McBride type hate blog posts are being deleted!

101

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:14:25
Union is Better # 98

Mark MacLachlan!
102

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:15:01
99 Tell it to the Marines.

103

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:17:06
101. For a list MSP you are a waste of time George, but we in London Labour hate spin say keep it up!
104

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:18:07
Union is Better # 100

What didn't you like about my post @ 62? The fact that it told the truth.
There was no hate in it, just truth. Why else would you and your controllers want it deleted?

105

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:18:26
101 Do you have any cause to introduce a named individual to this thread?
106

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 22:19:34
Your Move

You want the truth? You want the truth?

You can't handle the truth

107

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:21:17
104 so you maintain your defamatory comments are the truth?
108

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:22:31
Observant in Glasgow, # 102

"Tell it to the Marines."
What should I tell the Marines fighting abroad for the UK?
That the SNP condemns them as war criminals. I'll, happily, tell the Marines that what you say is official SNP policy.
109

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:24:13
What should I tell the Marines fighting abroad for the UK?
That the SNP condemns them as war criminals
---------------------------------
Lies, smears, misrepresentation, innuendo, defamation.

Is there anything else you want to add to your vile blogging profile?
110

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 22:24:14
Your Move

'That the SNP condemns them as war criminals. I'll, happily, tell the Marines that what you say is official SNP policy'

Another lie. I can see another post being deleted.

That is a lie - pure and simple
111

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 22:26:07
Your Move

You should be ashamed spreading lies and smears in this way.

If you have evidence to back up your comments then produce it, otherwise apologise for your vile remarks.
112

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:27:40
110. Thomas

now, now

just because "your move" is full of anger at Labour MOs in court on expense sleaze and the disastrous PR from Purcell's coke fuelled muppetry, does not mean he can't just indulge in London Labour Hate Blogging, Smears and Invention!

It is the McBride Labour Cyber Poison Way!

I hope no one copies his posts and then asks for comments from the likes of Ian Grey!
113

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:27:59
Observant in Glasgow # 107

I believe that to be the truth. "The SNP Truth Commission" can attempt to refute that, but, as far as I am concerned that will be a revision of the truth. But, they have no power. If the SNP refute what I say then they should sue me, if they have the moral fibre.
I will not hold my breath on the subject of SNP moral fibre. Sticky wicket for the SNP, moral fibre.
114

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:28:39
111. "You should be ashamed spreading lies and smears in this way. "

Oh good grief, we in London Labour set up a unit at Number 10 to do just this!

London Labour - Hate Blogging and Smearing, while not up in court for expense sleaze fraud!
115

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:30:26
113 You may believe that to be the truth but you stated it as a fact.

The SNP does not have a ''Truth Commission'' another fiction to add to the list of your vile blogging activities.
116

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:30:27
113 "Sticky wicket for the SNP, moral fibre."

too true, that's why they were all up in court today, charged with defrauding the taxpayer! and why their council leader fled the country having snorkled coke with gansgters!

Erm, or was that us?

Hardly matters, Hate Blog Away!
117

,

12/03/2010 22:32:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
118

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:34:59
117 Oh dear more defamation to add to the list.
119

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 22:35:27
Your Move

You are warped.

When I read your posts my belief in the SNP only gets stronger. I suspect your posts will help the SNP rather than hinder them.

The truth is, I will fight harder now for the SNP.

Thanks for that.
120

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:37:11

The SNP is happy to attempt to undermine the UK military when they are at war now.
What is the lie in that?
The SNP have told the UK Military that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are illegal, so, that personnel fighting those wars are war criminals.
What is the lie in that?
121

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:37:56
117. "Expect to lose seats as you did in 1979 when you last supported the Fascists."

oh dear, have the SNP been supporting the NeoCons and George W Bush in illegal wars again? Shame on them I say!
122

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:39:16
120 the whole thing is a lie and a vile one at that, which is why I presume you posted it.

Are you acting alone or are you part of an organised group? Because you all seem to say the same things.
123

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:39:40
120. Your move

"The SNP is happy to attempt to undermine the UK military when they are at war now"

Great post, except that the chiefs of defense staff alleged this week it was Gordon Brown who refused to fund vital equipment, and various coroners, who Gordon used taxpayer cahs to try to gag, said it was Gordon's government who sent troops into harms way without body armmour or helicopters

But great post
124

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:40:29
Observant in Glasgow # 118

If what I say is wrong, refute it, if you can.

Thomas79 # 119

What your beliefs are are of no consequence to me. I am interested in promulgating truth, if truth is not of interest to you, then so be it. The SNP needs people like you: drones.
125

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 22:40:47
122. Obs

I hope no one copies this and other threads, and starts to look at London Labour Hate Blogging, Swivel Eyed Labour Cyber Extremism etc
126

Observant in Glasgow,

12/03/2010 22:43:13
124 I am not going to bother refuting your posts because they are based on lies, smears, innuendo, misrepresentation, deception, and defamation.

Anyway I have added to my little collection somewhat so must be off.

Union is Best - if you are doing the same thing we can swap notes at a later date.

Adios UiB and Thomas.
127

Thomas79,

Ayrshire 12/03/2010 22:45:32
Your Move

You don't provide the truth. In fact, and I am sorry to say this, you are a liar.

I suspect you want to paint an awful picture of the SNP so your beloved Labour Party, the party of 'moral fibre' can remain in power.

Lie if you must - if won't help.
128

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:48:43
Union is Better, # 123

That you support the that view is hardly suprising. How much would the SNP have given the military to fight those wars which the SNP have declared as illegal?
The truth is, the SNP have done all they can to inhibit the defence of the UK by declaring, without proof or judicial judgement, that those wars are illegal and by extension that those engaged in those wars are war criminals.
How much money would the SNP have committed to those wars?
Will the SNP declare that Scottish soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan are war criminals and should be sent for trial at the Hague, or, is their opposition those wars just more SNP rhetoric?
129

Your Move,

12/03/2010 22:54:44
Thomas79 # 127

I didn't say I supported Labour.
The story above is not about Labour. It is about the pretensions of Alec Salmond to be a fully fledged politician. Salmond is a buffoon, that is why he is not taken seriously in a UK perspective. Everything else that you and your fellow SNP drones have posted here is a diversion from that fact.
130

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 23:00:36
126. Nighty Obs

and lets compare notes, the sustained hate blog, swivel eyed extremism on this thread, yesterdays Grahamski melt dowm, racist posts etc is pretty horrific.... Your Move, paisley, AM2, etc etc give a disgusting, Damien McBride type profile....

Email me via.... you know

131

Union is Better,

12/03/2010 23:01:49
129. Nighty Pete, keep snorting on with Steven, expensing and shelving with Jim and bullying with El Gordo!

And of course mad hate blogging!
132

,

12/03/2010 23:12:39
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
133

eck788,

Leven 13/03/2010 00:02:24
The "I want to be a prime minister" show on tv is no way to run an election
134

,

13/03/2010 04:35:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
135

JoeMiddleton,

Edinburgh 14/03/2010 03:11:36
This is not about Alex Salmond being 'upset at a snub' it is about the unique politics of Scotland, Wales and NI being utterly ignored by British broadcasters.

Election coverage which is shown in Scotland must cover all the options. The SNP is a legitimate choice for voters and has as much relevance to voters here as any London controlled party.

 

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