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White House denies torture photo claims

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Published Date: 29 May 2009
By Andrew Gray and Ross Colvin
PRESIDENT Barack Obama's administration strongly denied a British report that images of apparent rape and sexual abuse of Iraqi prisoners are among photographs that it is trying to prevent being made public.
In unusually forceful terms, the Pentagon attacked the report in the Daily Telegraph hile the White House went so far as to cast doubt on the accuracy of the British press in general.

The paper quoted retired US Army Major General Antonio Taguba as saying the pictures showed "torture, abuse, rape and every indecency." Taguba conducted an investigation in 2004 into abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said the Telegraph had shown "an inability to get the facts right".

"That news organisation has completely mischaracterised the images," he told reporters. "None of the photos in question depict the images that are described in that article."





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  • Last Updated: 29 May 2009 12:18 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Barack Obama
 
1

2dogs in D.C.,

29/05/2009 00:24:12
Don't fret.Something of this size will almost always make it to the light of day.Secrets are becoming harder to keep.But,when these do hit the light,the poopstorm will be of tsunami size.And rightly.
2

,

29/05/2009 01:49:34
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3

Carolyn 1,

29/05/2009 01:53:38
From the point of view of the forensics,
thousands of women are raped each year and have rape kits done as evidence, yet the 'alleged' rapist is not charged for lots of reasons..., such as it was consensual, she was asking for it, she was dressed too provocatively, she was promiscuous... etc, etc. (the victim's testimony is frequently discounted for lots of reasons)

So considering the lack of success in even getting a woman's case to trial, never mind convicting the 'alleged' rapist,
it will be interesting to watch the double standard go on trial, what it will require or not require to prove these male prisoners had been raped.
It's doubtful there will be forensics from a rape kit as evidence.
Will the victim's testimony be allowed or discounted? Who's testimony will count more? The victim or the rapist? (Answer: the victim's testimony will count more)
4

Christopher Hobe Morrison,

Pine Bush, Ulster County, NY, USA 29/05/2009 03:04:35
I did get an e-mail from the ACLU to forward to the White House about the photographs. I wrote a little paragraph at the top of the message saying that I was inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that releasing the photographs would do much harm and little good, but I also said that there was a good chance that photographs would come out and it would be claimed that they were the photographs. It would also be claimed that the photographs had been taken recently, and/or that they were much more extreme than had previously been known. It seemed that if the White House didn't release everything itself and provide the context it might seem as if it was trying to push everything under the rug, which would be worse than releasing everything. After all, they weren't the ones that did this. If the Republicans and people like "Lon" Cheney want to take "credit" for torture they should probably take credit for this too, it is part of the same process. Obama should not let it get stuck to him.

I think I was right. Obama should let everything get out, but of course be careful how he does it, because otherwise it will look far worse than it is and he will be part of it.
5

Carolyn 1,

29/05/2009 03:25:18
Christopher Hobe Morrison@4
(because otherwise it will look far worse than it is and he will be part of it.)

Therein lies the problem.
It's "we", not "I".
The United States is a country with 304,000,000 people. The country has sons and daughter wives and husbands still overseas... with more leaving every day.

This isn't about Obama. This isn't about you. This isn't about politics, keeping the congress, pushing an agenda or winning the next election. It's how to get our kids, our husbands and wives back home. Sooner rather than dead.

That Obama "should not let it get stuck to him."
He's president and he is supposed to be above this game of politics you want him play.

He's president. It's his job to get this stuff stuck to him. Did you think it was going to be 8 years of basketball, photo ops and pizza parties? We're at war.

Grow up and be part of the crowd and not part of the problem. Our kids will die because terrorists will use the photos as propaganda to spread more hate, our military will have their heads removed as revenge. In case you forgot, hell is war and in this one, the terrorists don't care about a rule book.

Obama's job is not to hide from decisions, but to do whatever is necessary to get our troops home safe and soon.


6

,

29/05/2009 04:59:01
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7

,

29/05/2009 13:38:05
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8

mike - across the pond,

LOL 29/05/2009 14:16:11
as long as they dont publish the pix of the T-Rex eating uncooperative prisoners at the "secret torture facility" under a Glacier in Antarctica....

was that too "wally"????
9

,

29/05/2009 14:43:42
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10

Spotted everywhere,

China, 29/05/2009 15:40:53
Obama sure has had a quick change of heart on this, it wasn't very long ago he promised to put it all out in the open, guys like Dick Cheney still have too much influence in the White House and are leaning rather heavily on Obama, and Obama doesn't have the experience or the balls to stand up to the puppeteers, so he caved and is now playing their game, sad as that is for all innocent civilians in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, or where ever else there is US military presence.

P=O=S=T=M=A=R=K 55
11

Sandi,

San Diego 29/05/2009 16:48:31
I don't think making these pictures public will benefit anyone, except the radical Islamic terrorists we are all fighting.

We know, and the government has acknowledged, that things that should not have taken place did take place. The focus now has to be on making sure that it doesn't happen again.

Carolyn, you said

"He's president and he is supposed to be above this game of politics you want him play"

That was a joke, right?
12

Carolyn 1,

29/05/2009 18:11:58
@7
This however is no reason to bury the truth."

For the moment at least, The Truth is in the responsible hands of the court system where it should be judged, and not by the court of public politics.

If you think "the truth is buried" maybe you can get a job on Capital Hill with Oblio and all the rest because it's pretty pointless- they see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. You'd fit right it.
13

Carolyn 1,

29/05/2009 18:13:11
Sandi @12
That was a joke, right?"

I plead the fifth,
other than that I agree :)
14

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 29/05/2009 18:15:01
2dogs in #1: here's an article where apparently some facts about these photos have come to light.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-29/torture-photos-depict-sex-rape/

but the nature of the delusions that are shared by many pro-war people on both sides of the Atlantic are that they will ignore this reality and many others.
15

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 29/05/2009 18:59:37
thanks Mike in #9 for that tip. I'll start looking for stories about the T-Rex torture under the glacier. In the meantime here is another related link.

http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m54293

16

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 29/05/2009 20:22:10
Mike, I looked and looked and looked for the T-Rex torture story and I didn't find it. But I'll keep trying.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5736720

but some of you might like looking at this thread from DU. It has a lot of related links embedded. Also, when you look at that DU site you'll realize that there are many Americans who are extremely well informed. Its the people who watch tv (like Mike) who are poorly informed.
17

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 29/05/2009 20:41:31
thank you cutty sark and it is good to hear from you.

18

Taz,

The Land of the Free 29/05/2009 20:41:44
How about the Brits publish pictures of the more than 2000 Kenyans that were tortured to death in British concentration camps in the 1950's?
19

Stefan,

NYC 29/05/2009 20:45:57
#18. I agree, time to wipe the slate clean. I do however want to offer another opinion on Sandi's #12 and your comment that "there was so much smoke and mirrors with the previous administration will on this..." Can you name me an administration that doesn't or hasn't employed extraordinary amounts of smoke and mirrors to further its agenda? Current company/gang/administration included. It's the way it's done. This whole issue is just being fed by those that want to see the Bushies indicted. Yeah, because there's any chance America is going to allow a trial of ANY past administration. Where would it end? Should we dig up and try JFK for developing the CIA and Spec. Op's that we blame so much on today? No parties are innocent. None so viscious as a liberal or so callous as a conservative. Zealots all.
20

Taz,

The Land of the Free 29/05/2009 20:50:38
We water boarded a handful of people. So what, our special forces are water boarded as part of their E&E training on a regular basis. We don't cut the heads off tied up prisoners and show it on the internet. Nor do we send the mentally ill with C4 strapped to themselves to deliberately kill women and kids by committing suicide. We stripped them naked and had Fido woof woof at them. Do you have any idea what they do to captured GI's? Give me a break.
21

Wally,

Psalm 137 (USA) 29/05/2009 20:52:21
and here is a related article from San Francisco Chronicle.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/06/27/MNGMM7CTSF1.DTL

and here are a series of related torture articles.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=torture&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=100&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=the-peoples-forum.com&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=off


22

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 29/05/2009 20:58:36
Taz in #23; 1'st Taz you criticized UK in #21. The Brits are our partners in crime, we're not supposed to criticize them.

Second, I really think you've not got the whole picture on US torture. Try that 2'nd link I gave you in #24.

A US Army officer was assigned to investigate the Abu Ghraib situation years ago. He wrote in his report to superiors that there were at least 34 people tortured to death by US forces in that prison over a limited period of time he examined. General Taguba who was drummed out of the army for opposing torture said that children were tortured in front of their parents, and that rapes occurred. I could go on & on & on. please educate yourself Taz and don't repeat foolish statements you hear on tv. The tv is propaganda.
23

mike - across the pond,

wally... 29/05/2009 20:59:10
I know you probably have got me in the bucket with the frothing at the mouth "pro-war" crowd... jumpin up and down, screamin 'kill, KILL'

the truth is very few of those you would slap that label on are that way...

MOST of us are firmly in the "get the job done, and get home" bucket... which is FAR from "pro war"...

truth be told, those in my crowd are of the mindset that we'd rather fight the war ONCE today, than TWICE tomorrow...

had Clinton not turned his back on Afghanistan in 1995, we wouldnt be there today... and who knows, we might not be in Iraq either...

had Clinton not refused to take Bin Laden in 1996, we wouldnt be looking for him today.... oh and BO has had what 128 days... and STILL hasnt "gone there and gotten him" like he promised he would... (I know, another case of Aligator mouth & humminbird hind-quarters)

had Clinton not gutted the CIA, we might have had enough QUALITY intel to 1) Catch OBL... and 2) refine our reasoning for being in Iraq....

history teaches us MANY lessons, if we are only smart enough to learn from it... preferably the FIRST time
24

Stefan,

NYC 29/05/2009 21:04:24
#27. I think it was Thomas Paine who said, "if there must be trouble, let it be in my day, so that my child may live in peace" I think that's what you're saying too and I would agree. Would be nice to get it done right the first time. But that requires ruthless, professionally executed violence which the west has no stomach for...
25

Stefan,

NYC 29/05/2009 21:06:23
addendum to #29. Not sure I have the stomach for it either. Be nice if it weren't ever necessary at all.

I'm well Cutty. Hope the same for you!
26

Stefan,

NYC 29/05/2009 21:14:30
#32. We agree. I just like Thomas Paine's sentiment. Wishful thinking...
27

mike - across the pond,

taz 29/05/2009 21:15:37
you have to filter wally with the knowledge that he's chock full of self loathing...

he loves his country, but hates everyone in power... a job that if he knew what it entailed, would never say a bad word about those who willingly seek it out...

he strongly believes in ice cream eating sappers pooping thermite in the bowels of the WTC

fictional airplane configurations flying into the pentagon

bizzarre timelines for 9/11

completely whack-a-doo chains of events on the Forrestal....

wildly fantastic conspiracy theories...

wally consistently flagulates himself with these things, and while they are annoying, right up until you realize that you arent going to change him, occasionally you might get him to slow down a few mph, and that is worth it... I guess
28

Taz,

The Land of the Free 29/05/2009 21:29:49

Re:
26 Wally,By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 29/05/2009 20:58:36
Taz in #23; 1'st Taz you criticized UK in #21. The Brits are our partners in crime, we're not supposed to criticize them.
.................................
The Brits are not our partners. The Brits are there hanging onto our coattails hoping for a little glory. There is a handful in Iraq and Afghanistan and they are there only to give Bush and now Obama some political cover. Their military is antiquated and their numbers are few. The ONLY people spending real money and blood are US.
Wally you continue to vilify your country in this foreign forum. You know full well these people loath us, which I guess is why you're here. You really are one sorry excuse for an American.
29

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 29/05/2009 21:32:58
Mike, don't get me side-tracked on the sept 11 stuff (again). I won't fall for it.

Regarding the torture thing - about a week ago the US Senate voted about 90-5 against letting Obama shut down Guantanamo prison. This (IMHO) indicates that nothing will be done to stop the torture policies. Guantanamo is one of the prisons where they do this that they've showed us in the mass media. We tend to think if Obama closes it down he's stopping the torture and illegal imprisonments. But if they shut Guantanamo down it means nothing, the same things can be done and from all evidence are being done in many other locations. I mean the EU made an investigation and concluded it was happening in Europe. And we know its happening in Turkey, in Syria, likely in Libya, in Afghanistan, Iraq and on-board US ships. In Turkey a newspaper story said more than 2 dozen died from it over a limited period of time. The people who died in the Turkish prison were rendered there by the CIA after being kidnapped. And then the US paid Turkey to do the torture & imprisonment.

Here's the drama they did. Obama requested $80 million to shut down guantanamo. The congress (& the chinese/russian/other banks we borrow money from) already funds the military & intelligence functions to $1 trillion a year. They don't need $80 million to shut it down. They already have lots of money. The president doesn't per law need permission from congress to run executive branch affairs. The request itself was ridiculous. And congress turned it down overwhelmingly. The end result is just a big drama they go through to give some people hope that change will come. No, we must vote out 90% of republicans and 90% of democrats every election until change really does come. Short of this, we've done nothing. and you know as well as I that the grudges many citizens feel against 1 of the 2 parties are so large that these citizens are kept in the habit of voting for the party they don't have a grudge agai
30

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 29/05/2009 21:34:16
and you know as well as I that the grudges many citizens feel against 1 of the 2 parties are so large that these citizens are kept in the habit of voting for the party they don't have a grudge against. and so we're not going to vote them out of office. We'll just bicker among ourselves and be deceived because we don't have it in us to do better.
31

mike - across the pond,

cutty sark 29/05/2009 21:41:15
wrong... sort of...

I firmly believe that
"there is a Rent you pay on the space you occupy"

Wally could tell you about 'talents', hiding them under rocks, and our makers view of that activity

we ARE #1... you may not like it, I dont always like it, but it is where we Americans are... it is the space we occupy... and there IS a cost that we owe humanity for that occupancy...

SO, as far as my "country's duty to bring the world to heel" thats NOT our way...

are we willing to spend treasure (life or $s) to ensure liberty for humanity in general??? yes...

does that mean that we should stand by while individuals impose their will upon those they find themselves in power over??? heavens NO...

does that mean that we should spend a portion of our treasures for the overall good?? yes, thats the point...

if you view that as "bring(ing) the world to heel" then yes... guilty as charged...

and as far as "going it alone"... well, if you would kindly pick up the yoke and help, we sure would appreciate it
32

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 29/05/2009 21:49:31
Taz in 36: you said "The Brits are not our partners. The Brits are there hanging onto our coattails hoping for a little glory." and I just wanted to clue you & others in. The clique that rules us is on both sides of the Atlantic. and it happens to be very big in the UK.

You've heard of the Federal Reserve Bank (& banking system). There are about 100 individual owners of the Federal Reserve Bank and a fair portion of them live in the UK. The US taxpayers give $400 billion a year to the federal reserve as tribute. The federal reserve banking system collects an even larger sum of money from the Americans each year and gives it to the Federal Reserve Bank as payment for money-creation services. The Federal Reserve has built for itself a cash-flow likely in excess of $1 trillion a year, yet it started with virtually no money by comparison. This cash flow has come to them because the US government has given them the privilege of creating US dollars. They thus create US dollars from thin air and lend it out. This causes their cash flow.

The bankers in City of London today take a far higher portion of the US gdp every year than the King of England ever took. The king took not even 1% of our gdp every year. The bankers in city of london are likely taking 3-4%. We pay them more today than we paid them in 1776. In addition we pay rich bankers in Italy, France and Germany as well because they too own shares in the Federal Reserve. Estimates are maybe only half the ownership of that bank is American.

You really should stop watching tv and get educated.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6507136891691870450
33

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 29/05/2009 22:08:50
Cutty Sark in 39:

a newspaper in Sweden described the rendering process. They kidnap people at gunpoint in broad daylight. As you know Italy tried to press charges against some US government employees who did this. Its well documented they've kidnapped people from many countries. The Germans have been upset over it.

They kidnap people and then take them to the airport. They strip these people naked, then they insert a big suppository up their back end. The suppository makes them unable to control their bowels and it also drugs them. Then they put adult-sized diaphers on them. Then they dress them in an orange jumpsuit and bag over head. Then they put them on the plane for the trip to the destination country where the prison is. They are handcuffed to the floor, not allowed to sit in a chair. Then they're delivered to a prison in a place like Thailand, Libya, Syria, Turkey, Poland, Romania, who knows where? and they are tortured. So they have contractors doing the torture and US personnel doing it as well in some places. People are arrested & jailed outside the law, held in secret.

Please read the testimony from a person actually tortured at Abu Ghraib.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13379

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/powabuse.html

http://www.the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=11900

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5395830/Abu-Ghraib-abuse-photos-show-rape.html
34

mike - across the pond,

wally 29/05/2009 22:10:45
your confusion is obvious...

in one sentence you claim we did torture in Turkey... then a bit later you claim the Turks did torture because we paid them... granted its the same end, but it IS not the same...

the 80 million... granted THIS is confusing... the money is there, however you ARE confused in that the CONGRESS sets the budget... not the Executive branch...

further, BO cannot bring those guys to american soil, and put them into american prisons because

1) someone has to fund their incarceration...

2) upon further review, BO does not want these guys granted the rights the judicial branch would grant them once they were on American Soil.

3) BO said that we could house them in SuperMax prisons... someone here pointed out that there are FIVE beds in our SuperMax system

and

4) nobody in congress wanted them to be incarcerated in THEIR district... the 5 who voted FOR it... they would have them released in SOMEBODY ELSES district...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
and wally... we DO have it in ourselves to do better, we just need somebody to inspire us to look for it... ala Ronald Reagan... (FDR & JFK were before my time, but I understand they made people feel that way too.) BO could be "that guy" but I belive he lacks the gravitas... he needs to be able to control his party, and that is a task I dont know if he's up to... IMHO, he won before his time...
35

,

30/05/2009 00:53:27
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36

Carolyn 1,

Home! Sweet Home :)) 30/05/2009 01:50:10
cutty sark, 29/05/2009 21:18:15 @35
Yes, Stefan I think we do. The sentiment is a good one. It troubles me that my children, and the children of others across the world, are growing up in a world of violence, hatred and greed. This is why I think it is time to wipe the slate clean and start to build a better world build on respect for and tolerance of others."


To hear you say this comes as great relief, -I'm so glad you want to work toward peace and respect because the world is certainly at a precipice.
Olmert offered Abbas 97% of the West Bank and an agreement for right of return and to resettle thousands but Abbas turned it down. Do you agree it's time for the Palestinians to accept a clean slate as well and "start to build a better world build on respect for and tolerance of others."
Or is the clean slate, tolerance and respect remark made only in reference to torture photos and the Obama administration?
37

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 30/05/2009 04:20:19
Mike, you've told us an idiot presumption. You said "someone has to fund their incarceration...". Did congress give the president money specifically allocated to set up the Guantanamo prison? The answer is 'no'. The president decided to build and use a prison at Guantanamo. He did that with money provided to the Department of Defense. The Department of Defense has lots of money. As I said it is like $850 billion or so a year that they are funded. They have money. Per the constitution they are to do with that money what the president says. The president can shut down that prison in Cuba any time he wants. He don't need no steenking money from congress to do it. The whole thing is a fraud. It costs less money to close the prison than to keep it open. Nobody approved the money specifically to set it up other than the normal DOD funding. But we have to have special funding to shut it down. Pure foolishness!!!!!!! In Amerika we see that all the time. and the people follow. that is the worst part.

The tv says the president can't shut down the prison unless congress approves $80 million in funding and people believe it. Legally he can shut that prison down anytime he wants and he can bring the prisoners here to the US as well.

The fact that the US Senate voted about 90-5 against shutting the prison down shows that THE FIX IS IN! Obama is just a fraud and even he knows it.

38

Wally,

Psalm 137 (USA) 30/05/2009 04:35:36
Mike, so there's no misunderstanding, let me tell you again the story about Turkey. A major newspaper in Turkey ran a story where they said that more than 2 dozen people were tortured to death in a particular Turkish prison and under a program that was paid for by the US. Mike, I remember in 1990 reading in National Review an editorial that said we should hire countries like Turkey to do torture for us. And we've done it. and it is wrong. and we should stop. You and your friends Obama/bush go for torture. But we should not do it. There is virtually never a real reason to do it. It does not produce good information. I've posted links documenting this.
39

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 30/05/2009 09:47:23
#9 Mike What glaciers? they are supposed to have all melted with global warming
40

Anti American,

Anywhere but America 30/05/2009 13:01:21
The American troops deserve to be treated the same way.

An eye for an eye.
41

Carolyn 1,

30/05/2009 15:28:56
Cutty Sark @35
it is time to wipe the slate clean and start to build a better world build on respect for and tolerance of others."

You dug yourself a hole on that empty rhetoric.

(A leopard can't change its spots, anymore than y

It's safe to should assume like I said in post #47, that your clean slate, tolerance and respect remark was made only in reference to torture photos and the Obama administration and NOT to Abbas accepting the offer for peace.

Does it hurt to talk from both sides of your cheek, or do you think that practice makes it unnoticeable?
42

Penny Lane,

30/05/2009 17:48:14
Revolting evidence of mass torture by US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq will surface for years to come. I hope all these people are brought before the Haig.

#54 Carolyn

Assume nothing!
43

Taz,

The Land of the Free 30/05/2009 19:39:46
Hi Carolyn, no Palestinian leader can accept ANY peace deal with Israel. It would cost him or her their very life, and in short order. Peace is not on the Palestinian agenda. The total destruction of Israel is. Does anyone in their right mind think the Saudi royal family (or their ilk) have any interest in Democracy anywhere in the middle east? The Saudis are the root of all evil in that area and the sooner we get that petroleum monkey off our backs, the quicker we can deal with them.
44

Taz,

The Land of the Free 30/05/2009 19:41:53
" Penny Lane,30/05/2009 17:48:14
Revolting evidence of mass torture by US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq will surface for years to come. I hope all these people are brought before the Haig."

This could be Radio Moscow from 20 years ago.
45

Carolyn 1,

Home Sweet Home 30/05/2009 19:51:21
PennyLane@55
" Revolting evidence of mass torture by US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq will surface for years to come."


The military has worked with Iraq and arrested and if proven guilty, convicted and jailed those who committed crimes.

I think it's safe to say there are and will be countless Photo-Shop-Chops as evidence of alleged crimes by Americans..for decades and decades to come
46

Carolyn 1,

Home Sweet Home 30/05/2009 19:55:33
PennyLane
Assume nothing!"

I butchered that post but you seem to have got the gist of it anyway.

A leopard can't change its spots.
Intolerance isn't going away any time soon. I know it and so does Israel. The difference is you are honest enough to admit it. Good for you. Honesty goes a long way with me.
Abbas is not an honest broker.
Cutty Sark is not an honest broker.

still - it would be a great opportunity for the planet, to hold a legal public referendum vote and let the Palestinians decide whether or not to accept the offer of the 97% of the land and the right of return that Olmert offered Abbas.
47

Carolyn 1,

30/05/2009 20:06:17
Taz @56
The Saudis are the root of all evil)

I disagree. I just did an over-view of the economies and future economic goals of the oil producing countries. (I need to get myself a better job)

You should take a second look at the Saudis and their future business plans. For example, last year when OPEC wanted to cut production to keep prices high, the Saudis walked away from the conference and said they would deliver whatever was needed to keep the global economy stable.

China however, is buying oil from Sudan which is making the tyrants wealthy and then they turn around and spend the money on Chinese weapons. Same for Iran. Those missiles and the nukes, are Chinese same as Syria. (Not Russian)

The US gets 40% of its foreign oil from Chavez but he just entered an agreement with China, and yup, you guessed, he's getting himself some more of those weapons he likes.

Saudis are not the problem. China is the problem. And it's a huge problem once you connect the dots and see it all
48

,

31/05/2009 05:24:45
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