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Turbine plant closure hits Salmond's green dreams

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Published Date: 16 August 2008
THE First Minister's plans for the nation to become the green capital of Europe were dealt a blow yesterday after a major wind turbine manufacturer announced plans to close its Scottish factory.
Vestas, which has its headquarters in Denmark, said it would be starting talks with its 91 employees about the future of its site in Campbeltown, Argyll, because it does not make enough money.

However, insiders say the factory has been dogged by
problems from the start, particularly the lengthy planning process in Scotland that has led to a lack of stability in the turbine market.

Vestas made the announcement on the same day it revealed its orders for wind turbines, and its share price, had increased.

The decision comes just weeks after Alex Salmond gave the go-ahead for Europe's largest wind farm to be built in Scotland, as he expressed a desire for this country to become the green capital of Europe.

An industry insider said from the start the lengthy planning system brought difficulties for the factory.

"In 2002 there was an awful lot of confidence that the wind industry would be able to grow in Scotland quite significantly and quite quickly," he said.

"That gave confidence for a lot of positive investment decisions at the time from people like Vestas. They were hoping the industry would have a regular throughput of planning decisions that would lead to orders."

However, he said the reality of the Scottish planning system – which has taken up to four years to make decisions about whether to give the go-ahead to wind farms – put an end to the initial optimism.

It is believed the factory has also struggled because it is not set up to build the larger turbines that are expected to be in high demand with the growth in offshore plants. It is thought Vestas was also at a disadvantage due to its remote location in Campbeltown that makes transportation of the turbine towers difficult.

Hugh Scullion, regional political officer for the union Unite Scotland, said he could not believe Vestas had made this decision at a time when the renewables industry was thriving.

He called for government intervention to make sure the manufacturing industry that builds turbines becomes established close to the wind farms, to make sure jobs are brought to the area.

Scotland's enterprise minister, Jim Mather, said he was seeking an urgent meeting with senior management at Vestas.

He added: "As a government, we are ready to do whatever we can to try and find a sustainable future for the yard."

In a statement Vestas said: "Evaluations have shown that the products for which the factory was designed and streamlined do not generate satisfactory earnings."





The full article contains 457 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

Vivas,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 00:17:28
Being an (ahem) "journalist on The Northbritishman is such a breeze.

Step 1: In the document, type the phrase "The SNP were dealt a blow yesterday by "

Step 2: Select from the dropdown list of 500 possible "blows".

Takes about 20 seconds.
2

Darien,

Panama 16/08/2008 00:19:16
Ferry intended for Ballycastle-Campbeltowm has been lost to Mallaig-Lochboisdale due to ScotGov offials mucking about. SNP politicians should appreciate that Vic Quay officials still work against them. Ditto Rosyth-Zeebrugge. Time to get a grip, SNP Gov!
3

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 16/08/2008 00:33:55
The government should enact legislation that requires local planning authorities to deliver a decision in 90 days. If they fail to reach a decision then the plans are automatically approved.
4

,

16/08/2008 00:41:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Senga Jean,

16/08/2008 00:41:26
And the Union is good because....?
6

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 16/08/2008 00:41:37
Turbines - the great cathedrals of the Kyoto Kult worshipers - are in reality an evil blight on the landscape.
As large numbers of rural Scots are quickly learning. (re. planning delays)
Hopefully Salmond has learned his lesson.
It's time to re-open the pits. Clean coal technology is Scotland's saving grace.
7

,

16/08/2008 00:44:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 00:51:54

What does on expect then?

Don't know do we!

Well it is Simple, all far too Simple, infact soo Simple, one is 'Simple' like 'Bart Simpson'!

Ignore and don't look after your own, and the results are,..

"Turbine plant closure hits Salmond's green dreams"!

Don't look after your 'Back Green', don't expect it to look after you, Alex.
9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 00:57:08

Auntie Mary Too ~14,

NO-ONE will be 'Bovvered'! far less the Courts!

Infact, the 'Court-day' would be a right bleeding Laugh!
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 01:12:41

Auntie Mary Too ~18,

'Ah' you know I speak the truth, is this why you make such a derogatory remark,?

Or are you soo 'Blind' not to see, it would be,..

'Laughed out of Court'?
11

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 01:16:40

Col. Blimp­IV ~20,

It would be, "'Laughed out of Court'" in the first 5minutes, if it ever got there!

I would be there to spectate!

And far less the, "fifty quid a day", it would cost you this to be there!
12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 01:25:38

As a footnote I wont ask for comments #18/19 to be reported as unsuitable, I will leave that for others to do so.

Your comment shows how 'Nasty' some are.
13

Andra, Dundee,

16/08/2008 01:43:17
It would be great to sell these expensive white elephants to other countries. But don't lumber Scotland's tax payers or Scotland's electricity consumers with this expensive and unreliable, politically motivated electricity.
14

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 01:47:25

Auntie Mary Too ~24,

Why the 'hatred',?

My comments make perfect sense, over half the poster's names are fictitious, the Scotsman News are well versed in the legal department, and have all scenarios on us commentator's making comments, that would lead to any Court Case.
Anyone trying it, would be,..

'More fool Them'!

Try getting back to reality!
15

,

16/08/2008 04:18:01
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
16

W Smith,

Middle East 16/08/2008 05:22:50
Other factories have announced closure while Salmond prattles on about Trident, Berwick upon Tweed, James McFaddens goal, etc.

Trust the SNP to obsess about windmills.

DENMARK'S NATIONAL GRID IS STILL CONNECTED TO NUCLEAR POWER STATIONS IN SWEDEN AND GERMANY MR SALMOND.

HOW COME YOU STILL DON'T GET IT?

BTW
Planning permission is THE problem in Scotland where local councillorS wait for the brown envelope from the developer to 'speed things up' and where planning permission is often rejected for reasons only known to the local, usually Labour, mafia.

Donations to the Labour Party have seen developers gain unusually fast approval in England recently.
17

Richardinho,

16/08/2008 05:50:23
'Turbines - the great cathedrals of the Kyoto Kult worshipers - are in reality an evil blight on the landscape.
As large numbers of rural Scots are quickly learning. (re. planning delays)
Hopefully Salmond has learned his lesson.
It's time to re-open the pits. Clean coal technology is Scotland's saving grace.'

Coal mines-of course not a blite on the landscape!
18

South Ayrshire Sanny Hossack,

Hunterston 16/08/2008 07:15:30
The only way to supply the power that Britain needs is the nuclear way,so stop wasting our money destroying our countryside and experimenting with the waves in our seas and build us what we need to meet our energy needs a couple of big nuclear reactors.
19

Nikostratos,

16/08/2008 07:39:51
much as i like to see the snp leader with egg on his face and failure writ large on his mush.

It is still a sad day to see environmentally sustainable technology being unused.


let alone 91 scots out of a job
20

terry osser,

morden 16/08/2008 07:42:05
turbines are a con--use coal and build nuclear. uk must be self-sufficient
21

,

16/08/2008 07:55:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
22

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 16/08/2008 08:19:29
While I have some sympathy for the workers who are to lose their jobs, this is wonderful news and exposes even more the claims for jobs from the windies as they rush to get on the money for nothing bonanza provided by the ROCS system.
What we need now is to stop this wind madness completely.
As a source of electricity generation it is completely useless and does not replace any 24/7 generation system due to its need for backup.
Taking #35 figure of 1367.68MW installed capacity, this is only a little more than Peterhead power station which covers a handful of acres whereas these turbines are covering hundreds of thousands of acres of some of our finest hills, have hudreds of miles of roads and several million tonnes of reinforced concrete in their bases, which will never be removed.
Yes they are a blight on the landscape, but the real issue is that they are an unnecessary blight and are not an alternative to coal or nuclear power stations, only a very expensive "as well as"
Every turbine that goes up means more wealth for Germany or Denmark and higher electricity bills for us.
23

Steve,

Bo'ness 16/08/2008 08:28:30
The real tragedy is the loss of jobs.
If the Scottish Govt. want windfarms to help meet our needs, they can get them from any manufacturer. They don't necessarily have to be built in Scotland!

But if they want to think big, what about the energy park in Methil, surely they would be grateful for the work?
24

tommy M,

Scotland 16/08/2008 08:58:58
Proves what a shambles labour's planning policies were. What a legacy the lib/lab administration left Scotland.
25

A Crofter,

Western Isles 16/08/2008 08:59:48
Are some of the above comments sponsored ny EDF, Amec, Fluor and New Liebore? More nukes with a non-existent planning process?

For the last eight years, I have been generating around 98% of my own electricity from a single wind-turbine. It has operated reliably and rarely stands idle. It emits little noise and zero carbon.

Those who have no personal experience of this underfunded technology would do well not to display their obvious ignorance.
26

The Strategist,

16/08/2008 09:09:34
In fact this has nothing to do with the SNP but all to do with Gordon Brown's sycophantic attitude to the financial services sector and letting it get away with not investing in and developing a Scottish wind technology sector. If you don't own it you can't control it.
27

Angus Ogg,

16/08/2008 09:26:49
#2 and # 32

This has virtually nothing to do with Alex Salmond as Kintyre's problems pre-date his coming into office. The SNP have little blame here.

Campbeltown lost its shipyard, lost its call centre, lost its Jeager factory, lost its airplane factory, lost its fish factory, lost dozens of businesses, and has an appalling number of closed down shops and bankrupt businesses because of local politicians. The place seems cursed. Certainly it doesn't have it's troubles to seek. Not with Argyll & Bute Coucil festering away in Kilmory Castle. It was Argyll & Bute Council that lost the Campbeltown-Ballycastle Ferry NOT the Scottish Office. Fact.

There is more to this story than meets the eye. Vestas have just declared bumper profits and the wind turbine industry is booming. Argyll & Bute Council are an appalling organisation, and the main reason why this part of the west coast is in long term chronic terminal decline.

The curse of Campbeltown persists.

The place is dying on its feet. If you had any belief in Kharma, you would have to wonder about the callous Campbell's involvement in the Glencoe massacre and murder of the MacDonalds under trust, echoing down the centuries.

Just a thought.

Whatever else, it seems Campbeltown is doomed.
28

4thbridge,

fife 16/08/2008 09:41:59
My back garden's quite a windy place, but the planners never insisted that the developers make it big enough to put a wind turbine in. On a more positive note, full credit to the company in Dundee that has its own turbines- they look great!But as someone has pointed out earlier, they do not generate ALL the power needed, ALL the time. That's not a sound argument against them though, merely an argument for having more than one source of energy!!!!
29

morris,

edinburgh 16/08/2008 09:42:48

Nikostratos,
16/08/2008 07:39:51

Whilst the whole of Scotland is saddened by this news at least the job losses anyway,and the SNP government will have to try and deal with it AS BEST THEY CAN with multi party support hopefully, it is by no stretch of the imagination their fault or doing,and no amount of claiming it is so will change that.
Constructive suggestions are what we need.
Have a go at the SNP for the sake of it is what parties who are going to get their butt kicked into permanent touch do!
If you have something please contribute by all means.
30

Phil1,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 09:47:06
If we want people to live somewhere other than the central belt and Aberdeen/Iverness then we have to make sure the education, training and jobs are available in these communities be it islands or places like Cambeltown.

This might mean subsidies and it might mean relaxation of planning laws in places where we want jobs to keep people living there.

The sad thing is that it is easier for greedy builders to get planning permission from 'corrupt in your pocket Edinburhgh and Glasgow councils and staffs' to build monstrosities than it is to build factories in the less urban places of Scotland. Oh and the Danes are closing their factory in Scotland because they can - they would not be allowed to close their other factories in Europe we are a soft touch.
31

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 16/08/2008 09:53:48
#35 McKellarator, quote:

"They have become part of our landscape and are a damn sight more attractive than giant cooling towers from Nuclear power stations."

I'm a bit puzzled about your statement about giant cooling towers and nuclear power stations which is clearly wrong. Coal fired power stations also require cooling towers, if there is a lack of cooling water. Where there is sufficient cooling water available, no power station requires a cooling tower irrespective of its type.

An example of the latter is Torness, which of course is nuclear and has no cooling towers.
32

Mad Jock,

East Lothian 16/08/2008 09:55:27
When I come back onshore, it is to the Danish post of Esbjerg. I have been passing through our office there for 10 years on a monthgly basis, and in that time I can barely remember an occasion when I have not seen turbine blades, towers and generators ready at the dockside being loaded on to a boat for transport around the world. The road network has been modified where necessary to accomodate the massively long trucks that carry the blades to the port.
Cambletown is hardly sitting on one of Europe's transport hubs, and getting material to and from the factory must be a nightmare.
By all means create jobs in the Highlands and Islands, but make them sustainable, with access to the markets they are serving. This is a classic example of poor regional policy. This is why Scotland lost it's car factory. Being too far from major suppliers and the market, plus too many strikes, is what killed off Linwood.
At the risk of supporting Gordon Brown, which I certainly do NOT, Rosyth, Inverkeithing or Bunrtisland would be a more logical location for these particular factories. Alternatively, Govan. All have access to a major port, and close international links.
33

beckypumps1,

16/08/2008 09:57:00
35
Renewable Energy Generation Capacity in Scotland (MW) as of Monday 11th August 2008


Hydro 1382.15 MW

Wind 1367.68 MW

Energy from waste 99.68 MW

Biomass Electricity 78.92MW

Biomass Heat 29.41 MW

Wave 0.5MW

Tidal 2MW


Total 2960.34 MW

Why have you not added facts about load factor and forced outage rate as well as planned outages. Instaled capacity is a wee bit of a red herring for people outwith the industry.Also pumped storage is about 10% from catchment and should not be classed as pure hydro.

All new build homes should by law have PV arrays on their roofs or ground heatpumps in the garden.We realy have to change the way we do things.

Do we have the right to leave a nuc legacy for people how have yet to be born?
34

Phil C,

16/08/2008 10:03:28
The planning processes in this country are appalingly laborious and over-complicated. On a small business level the unnecessary costs and over-meticulous attention to trivial detail are huge barriers to new businesses....And I'm only talking about opening a shop! I hate to think what it's like to get a wind farm through!
35

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 16/08/2008 10:13:40
I've not a lot of sympathy for either side!

The Scottish policy of offering major financial inducements to foreign-based companies to open plants in Scotland has been shown, time and again, to be a quick-fix solution that rarely brings any long term economic benefit. The result is invariably a colonist-style rape of the community. We need more pump-priming for indigeneous businesses and more support in planning facilitation, marketing and export. We also need an opening up of the European market to new or small businesses by removing the hugely complicated and expensive inter-state VAT procedures.

Any company that "settles" here and then moves on because it doesn't like our laws and procedures almost certainly grabbed the cash without bothering to investigate the situation properly and, therefore, with such a business ethic, should never have been entertained in the first place.

There are situations where bringing in an overseas company (like Vestas) with engineering experience and proven designs can cut a lot of development work but, as part of any deal, they should be obliged to place their patents and other intellectual property rights under joint licence (restricted to Scotland, of course) with the Scottish government so that if and when they abandon the plant, a new management can be brought in very quickly.
36

Upbeat,

16/08/2008 10:27:45
Will the Scottish ministers ever learn the lesson that stares out from this headline. ?

Subsidising the large scale creation of jobs in areas away from the main markets is always doomed to failure. We have seen it with the 1960's investment into the pulp mill at Fort William , 1970's investment into the oilrig construction yards at Portavadie, Loch Carron, Ardeseir and Nigg. More recently we have seen it with the heavy engineering plant to service the oil industry created near Stronoway.

Scotland's government has blindly thrown money at far too many firms that announce plans to provide jobs in outlying areas of the country. In almost every case these jobs are just temporary, and once the subsidies and development incentives drain away, the multinational companies nearly always restructure themsleves.... looking only to make new investments in other parts of the world where grants and developement status are still forthcoming, and where fixed operating costs are lower.

The story of Vesta's at Campbeltown has followed the precise pattern of too many previous attempts by Government to stimulate development in Scotland. Taxpayers must insist that the lesson has to be learned.
37

boudica,

Glasgow 16/08/2008 10:42:53
Why is Wee Eck not using the same powers for this mess up that he did for Mr Trumps plans ?
38

Charles MN,

16/08/2008 10:44:18
#50 and how much power are windfarms producing at the moment? Middelgrund (for which figures are easily available) is producing less than 3% of its rated output.

http://www.middelgrund.com/
39

Margaret L,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 10:55:11
#56 You missed out the Arnish yard in Stornoway which easily holds the record for bonkers investment by government agencies. Three times HIE put money into it and three times it went bust. The lunatic days of HIE under James Hunter were to blame for both Arnish and Campbeltown - it was his dream of the Highlands covered in wind turbines and its tourist industry destroyed that led to that insane use of public money. Unfortunately there is still a touch of his madness left in the current HIE board. Time the whole organisation was closed down.
40

brownlie,

16/08/2008 10:56:57
58 boudica

Can you expand on that?
41

Margaret L,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 11:03:19
#60 And then there was the Funicular. £16 million put into it by HIE with the major contract being awarded to the Chairman's company and with the Chief Executive of HIE heading off to join that company before the ink was dry on the contract. Campbelltown is just the latest example of an organisation that spends £70 million a year and makes no discernible difference to the Highlands.
42

Margaret L,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 11:08:11
#59 In the year to 31st March windmills produced 2,793,97mwhs out of a Scottish total of 52,000,000mwhs.
In the last month for which figures are available (April) they produced 215,726mwhs. Call it 6% and you wont be far out.

43

Upbeat,

16/08/2008 11:10:31
#60 Margaret ...Well put.... Not so much missed out in my post #56 Stornoway's Arnish works was refered to in passing...but suffered one of my typical typos. !
44

Upbeat,

16/08/2008 11:18:12
£70 million a year for 5 years would have had the A82 fixed to European highway 8 metre mimimum standard throughout its entire length several times over, and created jobs, and linked the west highlands into the economy of the rest of the UK , and provided safer travelling conditions for all those who live in and visit the West Highlands. This would have created and encouraged permanent jobs that were sustainable, reducing costs for all who deal with the west highlands , as well as opening up the region for fresh investment as transport costs were reduced.

Cost benefit analysis anyone ?

No...that's too simple isn't it ? These "enterprise" ministers want only big headlines. eg: 130 full time jobs " created" in Campbeltown/ Nigg/ Stornoway etc etc etc . What price these jobs now. ?
45

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 16/08/2008 11:22:24
Would it be too cynical to think that it was the £3.6M grant which attracted the company in the first place and now that the location is seen correctly to be all wrong the company decides to pull out. It all depends on the "strings" attached to the grant contract and hopefully we have covered ourselves on that one.

As to the effectiveness of windmills, the figure you'll always hear touted around as proof that wind power is effective is the rated output. As other contibutors have noiced, the actual useable output is often a small fraction of this due to windspeed being either too high or too low to operate, or just not at the optimum velocity for maximum output.

I'm not advocating stopping use of wind generation just to get real about the backup forms of generation needed to smooth supply to the grid so that it is reliable, for both domestic and industrial use. You can imagine the kind of damage done to industry if power supply fluctuates too much. Maybe homes would not be affected so badly but an industrial process relying on a smooth delivery of mains power could be badly hit and production runs scrapped as a result.

This means coal and nuclear which is not good news for the eco community but is practical news for the rest of us not so inculcated with left-wing propaganda on this subject.
46

Calvinist,

16/08/2008 11:33:20
A country that aspires to be the green capital of Europe and yet intends to make its living by selling oil? Come on Alex let's have some joined up thinking for a change.
47

dido-bendigo,

Scotland 16/08/2008 11:53:08
Very sad news for the workforce and those dependent on their earnings. But not suprising that it is to close down. The real shame about all of this is that there is so much untapped power in the sea that surrounds the peninsula and such little effort is going into harvesting it! One only has to see the Corryvreckan at full flood to see what immense power potential there is in the sea. This harvesting should be a major, top urgency, aim of the British Government(s) and politicians. With events in Georgia / Russia indicating our energy security status, we should be acting as if we are once again threatened with war and acting accordingly! Stop clucking and scratching around, get on with laying some golden eggs!!!!
48

David MacVicar,

web 16/08/2008 11:56:39
I am orinally from near Campbeltown and know its recent history pretty well. Angus Ogg is largely correct in that the Kilmory based A&Bute council have been a complete shambilic disgrace since decades.

Campbeltowns infrastruvture issues stemmed from the existance of a Nuclear weapons NATO base at Machrihanish, where the Vestas factory is now located.
Road upgrading and inward incestment was kept at a strict minimum. The base is now mothballed but the legacy remains.

Campbeltown Loch is arguablly the best deep water loch in the UK. Access by sea is no problem. The vestas Factory should have been built lochside already. Teh Vestas factory is not designed to build the large towers now in demand. Needs rebuilt, enlarged, rrelocated or closed.
49

Argyll Eagle,

16/08/2008 11:58:06
Vestas did not simply receive £3.6M of grants but over £11M of inducements. It was known locally, right from the start, that Vestas was not going to stay in Kintyre long term. The last place on earth that you would choose to operate such a heavy industry with heavy materials being shipped in and huge towers being shipped out is Campbeltown.
I feel very sorry for the people who have lost and who are about to lose their jobs, but throwing huge amounts of money at one company is not the way to create sustainable jobs in Kintyre. If £11M had been spread across many companies, Kintyre would not be faceing such employment pain.
50

dachaidh,

rhu 16/08/2008 12:01:39
40 Crofter..

Could you send me details of your turbine and costs, I'm looking at supplying my own. Dachaidh@tesco.net
51

4thbridge,

fife 16/08/2008 12:03:50
what about the 'investment' at Halbeath- the BIG WHITE BOX ON THE LANDSCAPE visible for miles that has stood empty since construction and was supposed to provide jobs for hundreds, now you are lucky to see the security gate manned!! VERY LABOUR at the time, about ten years it has been standing, has made a very nice roosting site for seabirds though.
52

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 16/08/2008 12:11:35
#63
Using your figure of 215726 mwh for the last month @ around £50/mwh for rocs that comes to £10,786,300 added to our electricity bills for no good reason except the profit margin of the windies
53

C,

Glasgow 16/08/2008 12:12:56
Clear economic mismanagement. HIE wrote a big cheque to get jobs in an area unsuited to the industry. SE will write a bigger cheque to the same company to relocate them to the central belt. (Or worse, to the "energy hub" in the NE).
54

John1,

Stirling 16/08/2008 12:14:16
I am far from being a fan of wind turbines, at least on the wind farm scale, but I would have thought Campbelltown was well positioned for communication by sea with any market it might wish to service. As for the problems of distance from markets, the Japanese car industry managed to defeat the home product despite being on the other side of the world. Could it be there are other reasons for the factory closing? On the matter of subsidies, there is a place for temporary subsidies to kick-start a project but anything which requires permanent subsidy might normally be regarded as unviable. We should have learned by now to ensure subsidies are repaid if a business based on them withdraws without coming up with a reason they should have thought of before taking the money.
On the viability of wind turbines, arguments have been produced to show their overall lifetime cost is greater than the energy they produce. Has a proper study been made of alternatives from the same viewpoint - Tidal, wave, etc, before committing to them? I have seen references to an Osmosis system which sounds particularly promising, but I am not sure if this has progressed beyond the theory stage.
55

Glasgow Jim,

Glasgow 16/08/2008 12:16:07
Haw haw haw haw.Eck screws it up again.
56

Rufus T. Firefly,

16/08/2008 12:42:54
Salmond will be too busy to be concerned about this story.

His full attention will be focussed on organising the mandatory photo shoot with Chris Hoy.
57

brownlie,

16/08/2008 12:48:49
78

Good man - keep up your record of inane postings!
58

Rufus T. Firefly,

16/08/2008 12:51:32
Nice reply Brownlie.

I feel like I have been savaged by a wet tissue.
59

Phil1,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 12:52:48
79 'hello pot'
60

SEUMAS,

fearn 16/08/2008 12:53:08
Jenny Haworth is of course that well known journalist from Achiltibuie, look out for her in future
61

Weegiewarbler,

Sailing 16/08/2008 12:57:23
Reply to #7

Clean coal does not exist - it is a euphanism inventented in America for political purposes - If you check out the data, research and facts behind the statement "clean coal" you will know this.
Instead of sending men underground - sometimes (often in the past) to disease and death - should we not look to the future. Renewables.
62

Rufus T. Firefly,

16/08/2008 12:58:14
#81 Hilarious Hoots.

You are about as funny as a fire in an orphanage.

Be sure that Salmond will be organising the photo
shoot.

He cannot help himself.

There has not been one since the sausage collection.
63

Rufus T. Firefly,

16/08/2008 13:06:32
86 Hoots okay fair enough.

It was genius!
64

Rufus T. Firefly,

16/08/2008 13:14:03
Been on holiday for 2 weeks. Back home tomorrow. Just signed on today to see what I was coming back to.

Sounds like I missed 2 weeks of rain.
65

Weegiewarbler,

sailing 16/08/2008 13:18:24
Now a short post about Vestas.

Note from the article - it's not that the company is actually losing money - just that they're not MAKING ENOUGH.
What they appear to be doing is moving jobs and investment to Colorado, US - where they're in the process of adding 1,350 jobs as we understand it.
The Scottish planning system was in effect long before the current Holyrood admin - not much they can do about it, but that aside.
Why was there no note of "after talks with gvmt officials...etc" and no mention of requests for streamlining of planing processes for green energy - which then had six years to create an environment in which it could succeed.
Remember - the plant was agreed and anounced (by Morrison) June 19, 2001 at a cost of over 3 million in PUBLIC funds.
If the plant is making money, and it should based on the fact that on 16th June 2004 Scottish Power promised them 300 MILLION POUNDS in orders.....
If the organization is pulling out - those orders should also - with the warranty that they will go to a Scots' based company. If they go and the orders don't - someone in the Scots government of 2001 and Scottish Power of 2004 need to be held accountable for thir total lack of competance in contracting skills.
So - you have the ideal company - in the ideal location (Scotland - maybe not it's present exact area).
Bit like a five day old fish here........
66

Rufus T. Firefly,

16/08/2008 13:30:53
90 Yes Hoots I did, but I cannot give too many details away.

You mean Alex Salmond cant stop the rain?

A few on here would challenge that.
67

A Crofter,

Western Isles 16/08/2008 13:32:56
Bogmon - My earlier comments were directed at the ignorance of posters claiming that windpower is ineffective. Where did I say that SSSIs and other areas of Scotland's natural heritage should be submerged by insensitive, industrial development (or golfing conurbations, for that matter)?

Margaret L - Did you know that Prof James Hunter CBE is a crony of the unlovely Brian "Hunterston" Wilson, former minister for nukes and now working for Amec? Hunter also spent his time at HIE bankrolling the failed salmon farming industry, now almost entirely under Norwegian ownership. I'd better not mention Orbost, another Hunter-inspired disaster. When is the Fat Harrumpher going to torch HIE, as promised?

Dachaidh - I've emailed you with info.
68

brownlie,

16/08/2008 13:44:50
82 Phil

Who rattled your cage? Is the 1 in your moniker your IQ?
69

Rufus T. Firefly,

16/08/2008 14:01:16
95 Hoots, thats not water. Its an oil slick.
70

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 14:07:14
No 5.
Have unconfirmed report that they are off to the Isle of Wight.
71

Margaret L,

E 16/08/2008 14:08:08
93# The trouble with HIE is that it is off the radar of the media down here so its continuous disastrous investment decisions go uncriticised and so on they plod answering to no one. The Scotsman article doesn't even mention HIE's role in the debacle and how it is one of a ongoing series.

93# and then there was the Scalpay bridge.

73# Brian Wilson was UK energy minister when the ROCS system was set up and now he's with Amec (and well paid) he is one of the main beneficiaries. It's wee Ardrossan wind farm received a subsidy cheque for £300,000 for its April production.


72

Neil,

Glasgow 16/08/2008 14:12:17
These politicians have poured billion of our money into subsidising windmills on the grounds that this was going to produce 10s of thousands of jobs & earn us export orders across the world. Any one of them who knew anything at all about economics or had ever talked to anybody who knew anything about economics knew that this was a deliberate lie. Economics doesn't work that way. Taxing money from businesses that have a future to subsidise businesses that can'y exist without massive subsidy is merely a way to pour it down the drain.

These politicians who supported windmill subsidy on that acciunt has proven themselves corrupt parasites unfit to ever serve in government & who can never be trusted to tell the truth on any subject. Theuy owe us a public apology & several billion £s. I doubt if they will pay.
73

Senga Jean,

16/08/2008 14:40:14
And the Union is good because.....?
74

Dylan fan,

Planet earth 16/08/2008 15:03:03

Is it naieve of me to think that an INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND would bring much more confidence and strength to decisions/incentives made with industry?
75

Dylan fan,

Planet earth 16/08/2008 15:04:13

Make that naive... and make the answer " Yes!" resounding
76

PaulW,

Borders 16/08/2008 15:41:02
#21 get your facts straight on the Berwick debate. It was Jeremy Purvis the Lib Dem's very own intellectual-Ewok and his colleague Alan Beith (Berwick's MP) that raised the profile of the referendum being held by ITV. They got more than they bargained for when the vote was in favour of coming across.

Purvis was quickly out of his depth. As for Alex Salmond he was asked a question as to whether he would support it coming back. The guy gave an honest answer and his opinions are shared by most of the population of Scotland who want it to return. I imagine it lost him about 2 minutes concentration and your attempt to suggest that is why this facory or others are going as a consequence is simply pathetic.

Try looking to No. 10 and No. 11 Downing Street, and their predecessors for the last 50 or more years, for the source of macroeconomic mismanagement and their lack of ambition, for the true cause of these decisions, as manufacturing in this country is now increasingly unviable. The SNP Govt is doing all it can to kkeep this factory open, but this and other similar situations are made more difficult by the approach taken to designation of areas for Assisted Area status (for Regional Selective Assistance). The map was set by the UK department for Business and Regulatory Reform (formerly the DTI).

As for Trident, if you think that is a matter of "prattling on" and don't see the seriousness of weapons of mass destruction in our own waters, against the will of the people, then more fool you.
77

Robbierunciman,

Romney Marsh 16/08/2008 16:11:16
the trouble with news like this is that it over looks the future and again a viable technology will be built abroad. Then what do we hear on this site, wittering about percieved bias against the SNP and dreamers who belive the guff about the nuclear industry (c'mon lads is 2008 not 1958!)

The subsidy wind sites recieve is tiny against the public largesse the nuclear industry needs now and will need in the future(£61bn and rising). yet another station (Dungeness B) is now out of action, just think one wind turbine out of action - who'd notice?

GB is fixing the english system so that these planning delays are minmized - perhaps wee eck could enact some 'me too' legislation in Scotland to catch up?
78

Margaret L,

Edinburgh 16/08/2008 16:24:19
#100 Get a bit bored pointing this out but here we go again - to replace the power produced by Torness and Hunterston by windmills would entail a subsidy over 25 years of £ 24,637,500,000. To produce all of Scotland's electricity the annual subsidy would be £2,628,000,000. (In the year to March 2008 the subsidy for windmills in Scotland has been announced as having been £140 million).

Your £61 billion figure is for the whole of UK so taking that the annual subsidy for windmills would be £28,908,000,000. That's £28 billion a year - for 25 years that's £700 billion.

What's your definition of "tiny"?


79

,

16/08/2008 16:38:04
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
80

Daveunderwater,

16/08/2008 17:27:37
Lets hope a Scottish Company will take up the reigns and forge ahead with production.
81

AntiPCman,

16/08/2008 17:38:52
Some writers have made some good points. I will write on 5 but there are more.
Firstly, we want sustainable energy and wind is not as its utilisation is between 25% and 35%, which means we need 85% of our existing energy sources for back-up. It is equally inefficient to keep turning off and on existing generation when the wind blows or not.
Secondly, rural regeneration needs central government subsidy and committment not just a 4 year future (length of a government). This means putting money into skills, housing that is affordable, infrastructure and looking at seriously at hydro and tidal power which is in rural areas and which is far more efficient and less intrusive in the landscape.
Thirdly, we need a mix of power generation and that might include some nuclear and we need to be self sufficient in Scotland which means having enough for ourselves first before we export to England. I do not care what colour the party is in power so long as it makes clear and committed decisions NOW, not when the lights are going out.
Fourthly, the Planning Process is not that slow but what has slowed down the process is the lack of a clear strategy for power generation from the Scottish Government over the last 9 years - this ought to be an all party decision not a political one.
Fifthly, we need to have Energy from Waste facilities in all cities and major settlements in Scotland and we should learn from all the experience across Europe and get on with it.
82

Western Gael,

16/08/2008 18:28:36
There is plenty of blame to go around here. The company misjudged the length of time needed for council approval. They also misjudged the market for the product to be built, but no company can perfectly see through the veil of four years of uncertainty. The Council that refused to make a decision for four years would surely screw up a two-car funeral. None of this matters a whit when the company decides it is in the best interest of the shareholders to abandon this dry well.
83

kimba,

16/08/2008 20:25:51
The only chance of Salmond "going green" is if he gets sea sick,other wise forget it!
84

Man-O-Field,

Aberdeen 16/08/2008 21:30:52
Continental countries eg Denmark have had the wind turbine/tower market cornered for years. Even now less than 3000 jobs are associated with the whole renewable sector in Scotland - some of them temporary - especially in the case of the setting up of wind industrialisations. This contrasts with the employment of 200,000 in tourism. Where might we believe the 6000 or so wind units, vociferously proposed by wind energy associations etc, are going to be manufactured? To whom and where are the profits, magnificently helped by our public subsidies, going!!! Our landscapes and tourism are going to pay a heavy price for this non base load, part-time, wind technology. To cap it all, even without clean-up, our present so called 'dirty' electrical energy generation in Scotland would contribute to any Global Warming (at present in abeyance!) by only a few thousandths of one degree C. over 100 years.
85

boudica,

Glasgow 16/08/2008 21:38:44
Brownlie ( sorry for delay in answering was in the real world for awhile)
Wee Eck moved at superspeed to save the Trumps Plans ... so why isnt he moving on this as quickly to find a resolution that will benefit the workers and the Planet ?..
maybe he sees an opening for when he retires ..I am sure he could be used as an Wind Energy source as the rate his gums flap about the Union and Westminster he could light up Scotland ..saves us a bucket ...and get Sturgeon on Board and maybe we could sell all the extra energy to England .. Howz about calling it >>> " GubPower"....hehe
86

Chris W,

Argyll 16/08/2008 21:49:30
Good, less of these accursed monstrosities to spoil our hills and kill birds. And as for jobs in Campbeltown, there's plenty of space at Machrihanish for a new nuclear power station.
87

yoric,

16/08/2008 22:47:35
Good!!!!
Lets close the other factorys down that build these overpriced, overrated monstrosities.
88

,

16/08/2008 22:54:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
89

Greenheatman,

TAIN 16/08/2008 23:13:22
Good riddance!

When will the "chattering classes" without a shred of engineering knowhow behind them realise that the output of wind turbines is never used!

Random electicity is the WRONG kind of electricity.

Secure, non-intermittent electicity is the RIGHT kind.

Self evident to most but the 'tree huggers,!
90

,

16/08/2008 23:15:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
91

A Crofter,

Western Isles 17/08/2008 09:15:03
And why has the Hootsmon decided to renumber these posts?
92

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 18:32:47
"KampungHighlander,Jakarta 16/08/2008 00:33:55
The government should enact legislation that requires local planning authorities to deliver a decision in 90 days. If they fail to reach a decision then the plans are automatically approved."

I think you'll find that these windfarms are all dealt with by the Scottish Government's Planning Department under Section 36 of the Electricity Act, NOT local government planners...as for most posters would like to wax lyrical of planning matters...get you're bl@ody facts right...

93

Daibhidh,

Edinburgh 17/08/2008 18:35:03
Also, combating slow planning decisions byt simply permitting everything is as rediculous as it is dangerous...what a daft idea...if you properly resource planning, it'll work fine...just the government fails to employ enough people as either planner or other stakeholder personel (such as roads depts, SEPA, SNH etc etc etc) and also developers in Scotland fail consistantly to submit competant applications...it's failure across the board, but it's mainly staffing and resourcing...let's not remove important checks and balances simply for short-term gain...
94

Davaarboy,

Campbeltown 18/08/2008 00:27:33
As someone who is one of the 92 people being laid off I find some of the comments disturbing. Especially the one about good riddance and to build a nuclear power station at RAF Machrihanish by someone living in Argyll. I can only guess that this muppet is from Oban where they get everything handed to them on a plate. This myth about the transport not being viable is nonsense as the guy said that works in Esbjerg Vestas are shipping 100s of towers from there but the towers are being welded in Varde which is 30 miles away and moved individually by lorry to a paint shop close to Esbjerg to be painted and then on to the dock. Campbeltown has been building tower for America,Canada,Ireland, and Portugal some for the UK over the last few years. The big problem we have is Siemens have been undercutting Vestas in the UK market .Every big project in the UK Siemens wins and it has been happening for a while. We are capable of making 90% of the towers that Vestas currently sell granted that they are upgrading to bigger towers in two years time. But with the back log they have you would think that they would keep us open for a few years. To be honest I think they are going down the super factory route with ones being built in America, China and Denmark ten times the size of ours so we had no chance. I have never seen a website where people are happy that other people have lost their jobs but hey this is the great country we live in now.
95

Feenon,

Edinburgh 18/08/2008 03:29:47
Notes to Editor -

This MIGHT be an interesting story -

How much of Scotland's fuel generation is exported? (Yes, even to England!)

Does hydro power generation actually run at capacity?

How many jobs WOULD have been created at the carbon capture plant rejected by Downing Street to operate at Peterhead?

How many jobs COULD be created through applying the clean-burning coal technology also pioneered in Scotland, but only actually used outside our national borders?

The story you have chosen to publish is poor, lamentable and unworthy of comment in itself.

GET A GRIP!!
96

Coutts,

Ayrshire 18/08/2008 12:52:12
It is extremely sad that 91 people will lose their jobs and suffer the knock on effects which are inevitable in the town economically.

If more of the subsidies/investment were put into wave and tidal instead of onshore wind we would have have a much more viable, reliable and sustainable energy resource. These technologies have been underfunded as everyone seems to be blinded by the highly visible onshore wind industry.

These industries could be located in places like Campbelltown - even the construction of the much larger offshore turbines - if located near the port is much more viable. With all of Scotland's skills in operating oil rigs and underwater maintenance over the years - there seems to be no obvious or coherent plan to use this resource. UK Gov. banning Scotland's talks with Norway too?

I am glad planning takes so long - which is nor the planners fault....hopefully people will come to their sense before the whole of Scotland becomes an industrial backyard and wasteland of rusting turbines when the UK Gov pulls the plug on the ROCs for the windies.

Alex please come to your senses about onshore wind.
97

Highland Mighty©,

18/08/2008 15:51:48
4. They are moving to the Isle of Wight.
98

Highland Mighty©,

18/08/2008 15:55:40
99. All polls show the majority are in favour of Trident.

 

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