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Pub chief attacks police for hounding underage drinkers



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Published Date: 24 February 2008
THE owner of one of Britain's biggest pub chains has launched an outspoken attack on police and ministers for trying to "entrap" underage drinkers in bars.
Tim Martin, chairman of JD Wetherspoon, rubbished high-profile campaigns to drive teenagers out of bars as misguided "showboating". The tycoon, who owns hundreds of pubs across the country, claimed the strategy put youngsters at greater risk by leavi
ng them to drink unsupervised in the streets and at parties.

But Martin's comments provoked an angry reaction from the Scottish Government and alcohol-awareness charities, who insisted the law must be strictly enforced if the nation's binge-drinking problem is to be challenged.

Martin, writing in his firm's in-house magazine, said: "Issues concerning drinking are much at the fore of media and government circles these days and there are serious questions to be addressed by us all.

"We have drawn attention to 'displacement activity', whereby police and other resources are focused hugely on keeping those under 18 out of pubs, when 99.9% of adults themselves started drinking in pubs at 15 or 16. This does not address the real problems associated with binge drinking; these are cultural in nature, concentrated in much older age groups than teenagers and exemplified by the glorification of heavy drinking occasions by celebrities, sports stars and others across the media."

Martin, who pointed out his chain sold more than one million coffees in December alone, added: "The Government should avoid 'showboating' with high-profile campaigns, designed to entrap 17-year-olds using pubs, as this utterly avoids the real issue and, indeed, makes matters worse by driving many young people into a culture of drinking vodka at parties, and on other unsupervised occasions, storing up further problems for the future.

"Well-run pubs, providing a convivial melting pot for society, are a fabulous institution and should not be victimised in a misplaced attempt to solve alcohol abuse."

But a spokeswoman for the Scottish Government defended its policy of sending underage teenage volunteers to attempt to purchase alcohol from licensed premises. "Selling alcohol to people under the age of 18 is illegal. Given the problems alcohol misuse is causing in this country it is entirely appropriate that the police are enforcing this law. The test purchasing scheme is not designed to trap people. It is designed to help enforce the law."

"We expect tough action to be taken against those who flout the law regardless of whether it is pubs, a corner shop or a supermarket.

"That isn't showboating. It's giving police the tools to do their job. Responsible licensees have nothing to fear from this.

She said there was no attempt by the Government to victimise pubs. "We are working to try to take action to overturn Scotland's 'drinking to get drunk culture', which is costing our health service, criminal justice system, economy and communities far too much."

Alcohol Focus Scotland, which raises awareness of the dangers of excess drinking, also took issue with the Wetherspoon owner's claims.

Chief executive Jack Law said: "Mr Martin claims that police and other resources are focused on keeping under-18s out of pubs, but it should be licensees, not the police, who are the first point of enforcement. His claim that 99.9% of adults started drinking in pubs at 15 or 16 proves far too many licensees haven't been in the habit of enforcing the law.

"Go to any city centre on a Saturday night when the pubs close and it's clear that people have been served alcohol when they've already had too much to drink. There must be stricter enforcement of this law."

Ian Dickinson, Assistant Chief Constable with Lothian and Borders Police, has led responsibility for the deployment of 16-year-old volunteers attempting to buy alcohol from pubs and off licences across Scotland. "Many of the problems associated with youth disorder and antisocial behaviour are directly attributable to the consumption of excessive amounts of alcohol by individuals who are under 18."

However, Bill Aitken, the Glasgow Tory MSP and convener of Holyrood's Justice Committee, sympathised with Martin. "He's right. Youngsters are getting drunk from off-sale premises, they are not going into pubs, because publicans would throw them out. The real problem is that the authorities are not clamping down hard on off licences that sell drink to children. Any premises caught should lose their licence for three months."

Beers, cheers, jeers and tears

ARM-in-arm and teetering on high heels, the group of girls burst into an impromptu chorus of "Umbrella" by Rihanna as they make their way along Sauchiehall Street.

Sparkly cowboy hats are their only means of protection from the rain, but no amount of bad weather, it seems, will dampen their night out.

They giggle and roar with approval as passing cars honk their horns at them. One man in his early 20s leans out from the window of a Vauxhall Corsa and bawls an obscene request.

Everyone laughs as one of the group, wearing tiny shorts and a skimpy top, waves an upraised middle finger in his direction. It is a typical scene that is played out almost nightly in city centres across binge-drinking Britain.

But Fiona and her friends are 16 and 17. Despite their age – and the warnings of the Government and police – the girls waltz unchallenged into pubs and clubs every weekend. These super-confident girls are the face of teenage drinking in towns and cities throughout Scotland.

But how do they get served? "People ask us to come into their bars and clubs," said Fiona, who clearly sees herself as Strathclyde's answer to Paris Hilton. "They want us to be there."

Sure enough, as they walk along what is arguably Scotland's biggest party strip they are surrounded by men and women handing out flyers offering discount entry to pubs and clubs. The high-school student, who claims to have drunk four bottles of Smirnoff Ice and a shot of Sambuca, adds: "What else is there to do at the weekend but go out and party? We are not going to just stay in and watch TV."

Her friend Anna is equally blasé. "My mum and dad have given me twenty quid so I could come out tonight and enjoy myself with my mates.

"My dad started drinking in pubs when he was 15 so he is hardly in any position to give me a hard time.

"No one waits until they are 18 to go drinking in pubs. My parents would rather have me drinking in the house or in the pub than out in the street."

Another of the group, who is clearly the worse for wear, interrupts: "Some places are really strict and always ask for ID. But we just stay away from them and stick to the places where the bouncers know us and let us in."

With their heavily made-up faces and streetwise swagger, any one of the group could easily pass for 22 or 23. Across the road a baby-faced lad of around 16 attempts to scramble up some metal scaffolding. Cheered on by his beery mates, each of whom wears a strict uniform of checked designer shirts and jeans, the glassy-eyed, ginger-haired teenager swings from a bar like an inebriated chimp before being moved on by police officers.

Along the street a teenager – who could have been as young as 15 – squats frog-like on his haunches vomiting noisily.

A taxi driver honks his horn loudly as a girl with ripped tights and a bloodied knee lurches out into the road, seemingly oblivious to the danger. She is crying, carrying her shoes in her hands. It's late and her friends are nowhere to be seen. It's a sobering sight.

Is Wetherspoon chief right?

YES

Clive Fairweather, former Chief Inspector of Prisons for Scotland:


"We have got to get to grips with this culture of young people getting drunk on alcohol they're getting from shops and drinking it in parks and homes. In general, a pub is a more controlled atmosphere.

"It used to be that only old men got drunk; young people couldn't afford to drink that much. Drink is too cheap and too easily available from the shops. If a bottle of whisky still cost relative to earnings what it used to when I was young, it would be about £60 or £70.

"I believe that for all we hear about drugs, alcohol is a much more serious issue."

NO

Chris Wigglesworth, board member of Alcohol Focus Scotland:


"We all acknowledge that the more serious problem is youngsters buying cheap alcohol from shops and getting drunk on it, and doing themselves real harm in the process.

"But that does not mean that we should turn a blind eye to underage drinking in pubs and bars and that everything there is rosy. The law is there for a reason: to protect young people.

"There is virtually no action being taken against people serving customers who are already intoxicated.

"I simply don't agree with this 'let's all relax, boys' approach at all."



The full article contains 1523 words and appears in Scotland On Sunday newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 23 February 2008 10:32 PM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Alcohol & binge drinking
 
1

Andrew Buchan,

Kincardineshire 24/02/2008 00:17:57
Let me have a think.

When I toddle down to the shops to buy my paper, what do I want - a free book of Weegie insults from this lot or a free DVD of a classic film from the Mail on Sunday.

And they wonder why no-one buys this paper anymore?
2

Aýrshire Scot™,

24/02/2008 00:34:47
I want the free book of weegie insults. I will be buying the paper first thing!
3

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 00:37:15
WELL I TELL YOU WHAT!

NOW LISTEN!!

Its NO Wonder our 'Teens' are lead to drink, with all the hounding they get these days!

When I was a 'Teen' we never got "Hounded" and we had little problems!

FOR GOD'S SAKE!,, GIVE OUR 'TEENS' A BREAK!

The more you try to CONTROL them, the WORSE it will get!

NOW..........'Rack-off'!!
4

Conan the Librarian™,

24/02/2008 01:43:10
2
Could give you some Edinburgh ones for free.
5

Angus Macoatup,

24/02/2008 02:02:26
3 Charles Linskaill,
And your solution is??????????
Put some clothes on your argument,sound bites are not enough.
6

Kenny A,

24/02/2008 02:29:07
I see the morons are out in force tonight.
7

Angus Macoatup,

24/02/2008 02:29:30
Ok Tim Martin; So your point is that you should be allowed to sell your product to anybody who has the means to buy it regardless .........
(long live the free market) I would hazzered a guess that you live in gated/rural isolation where you have no contact with your "esteamed" clientel who, after drinking copius amounts of your cheap booze and then doing several lines of Charlie in your bogs then go pishing and puking our doorsteps.
You have not got clue as to how your "Marketing profile" ..............think I might be wasting my breath.............
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 03:13:56
Kenny A @#6,
Apart from me, I see you are correct!

Angus Macoatup @#7,
Soo when you were a..'teen'..you went,

"pishing and puking our doorsteps"
You seem to know allot about it!

Well This early Sunday Morning I was in the Town, being Mr Taxi and all those causing trouble, drunk in the middle of the road waiting to be knocked down, were the, 'Grown-Ups' NOT ONE TEEN!
Yes the Teens were out, but only hanging round the clubs, waiting to get in, 'some will some wont' but NO trouble at the club doors!

Angus Macoatup @#5,
Its not my Job nor vocation in life to be or have been an educationalist, but at the same time DONT live in the..'Dark-Ages' as you do!,, I know the teen culture and see problems,
The biggest ones are the old,,'Bigot's' that try to control their life's,
Educate at say 8-10years on the dangers of 'Alcohol'
Keep giving them your best advice, but at the same time give them that old..'Leeway' and listen to them!

Soo How come we are all on here and NOT some Alcoholic Nomards, that are saying,
'Any Spare Change Please' in Princes Street,?
We Never Had the Gestapo in the Pubs when we were Teens!
'WHY NOW'????



9

Angus Macoatup,

24/02/2008 03:35:26
#8Charles Linskaill,
How come you know so much about teens?
10

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 04:18:44
Angus Macoatup @#9,
My DYW (Darling young Wife)...20 something.? :-))
Has still Friend's and workmates in this age-group, so I get all the Goss everyday and on occasion my DYW has a night out with them, so 'of-course' Husband meets them, talks to them and becomes..'Poor Mr Taxi Home'
I see it all, from the two bottles off wine each before they start, (not DYW, as she wants to-be Pregnant) but my age gap from DYW and her 'Teen' Pals cross the bridge and I see the light!

I DONT come on here and talk nonsense and I don't have a,
'Train set' or..'Toy Soldiers' and do..'Trainspotting'
I tell it as it is and live in the..'Real World' of today!

Please,.. Angus Macoatup keep any innuendos to your self!
If thats where you are coming from.
11

Stuart W,

Dundee 24/02/2008 04:52:26
Bill Aiten said: "Youngsters are getting drunk from off-sale premises, they are not going into pubs, because publicans would throw them out."

Aye, right!
12

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 05:18:47
Stuart @#11,
Aye, right! yes you are..."Right"
Its all..'Bull-Sh!*'
We know it and they Know it!
The question is,?,

What is their Problem,?

It sounds to me!
'BooHoo! I am no longer a 'Teen' I am jelious!
Need..Control..Need..Control!

Well,,'STICK YOUR CONTROL WHERE THE SUN DONT SHINE'

You Infurate me! with your stupidity!

"Tim Martin", quite right and 'well-done', for speaking out!
13

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 24/02/2008 05:24:18
5
Angus Macoatup,
24/02/2008 02:02:26
3 Charles Linskaill,
And your solution is??????????
Put some clothes on your argument,sound bites are not enough.
---------------------------------------------

Wrong Dude,

Its all about sound bites Just listen to news on TV any night on any national TV station here in the States.

Or for that matter any TV network any where on News .

GC

14

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 05:40:44
GalacticCannibal @#13,
Your cool, thanks Dude!
15

Navvy,

24/02/2008 07:20:04
Identity cards would help

Why can't they find something better to do than getting plastered - so unimaginative

Do JD Wetherspoon bland look alike boring pubs do happy hours and 2 for one. Methinks he protests too much thinking of his pocket and not society of which he claims to be a responsible member
16

lachlan,

24/02/2008 07:30:56
not a fan of mr weatherspoon but i have to agree to a point with the idea that if kids are going to drink best have some supervision at least.the harder alcohol is to aquire the more 'exciting'it could become.we live in a culture that glorifies getting drunk not, i am glad to say, a sentment shared by many of our european cousins
17

Anne,

Eaglesham 24/02/2008 08:08:06
Where all these schoolchildren are getting the money to get so drunk in pubs is a mystery.
I couldn't have afforded it at that age, and I made sure that none of my three children could, either, when they were at school.
Parents have to take responsibility for the actions of their offspring while they are living at home. Laisser faire is not an option.
18

james 1st,

hamilton 24/02/2008 08:23:52
simple solution if a pub is serving underage drinkers close it down for two weeks for the first offence, if the same pub is caught again close it down for goodand fine the owner 250,000 pounds, the boss of wetherspoons would quickly amend his outlook
same applies to small shops and supermarkets
19

thinking,

Scotland 24/02/2008 08:40:28
I agree that culture and the example of 'celebrities' is a big problem. I would also add that it is the break up of the family that causes a lot of problems.
As a child, I sometimes went with my father, and the rest of our family, to the local pub. We would have soft drinks. My father would have a half pint of beer, meet with friends and perhaps have a game of darts. That experience did not make me a drinker, in fact I am teetotal now but, more to the point, teenagers were not there on their own, they were with their families and there was non of the binge drinking you get now.
20

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 24/02/2008 08:44:42
Charles Linskaill presents a dilemma. He claims he is grown up and responsible yet his writings are immature and without significance. I'm sure his response to this will prove my point.

Will the real Charles L please stand up, or shut up.
21

J J MAROONER,

24/02/2008 08:55:52
Its been a long time since I was a teen, however the teens in my family (over 18) tell me that Wetherspoons is the most "uncool" place to go.
22

Media 1,

cape town 24/02/2008 09:24:56
Tim Martin is not a stupid man, but he is an idiot.
He wants to compromise the law, and that cannot be allowed.
In five words, "the man is an eejit"
23

Maname'sbintaken,

24/02/2008 09:36:28
Rulesbutnotrulers, old Charlie L is indeed a grownup. You can tell this by his judicious use of caps and exclamation points. Tee hee.
It takes real skill to be a grownup pretending to be a teenager. I bet he had to check Google to find the correct spelling for "dude," too.
Well, he can be forgiven I suppose -- they do say the teenage years are a maelstrom of tangled emotions and insecurity.
24

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 24/02/2008 09:55:56
Charles Linskaill

Although I do not agree with your arguments, I can see where they have "some" validity.

It is just corporate greed again and that Tim Martin is just a greedy b**tard and would sell his grandmother - even his great-grandmother - for more profits.

The Mail on Sunday is a quality newspaper AS IS The Scotsman, so back off Andrew Buchan, you numptie.

Variety is the spice of life.

I am now listening to the slow movement of Mahler's 4th Symphony as done by the composer's disciple, Bruno Walter (Schlesinger), and it is sublime.

Don't upset my revery, please.
25

Shiltrum,

24/02/2008 10:09:05

Is it a Martin family thing???
Can none of them tell the truth then ??

OK.....let's limit it to Tim and Gorbals Mick.....no dispute.......both of them are charlatans.
26

Shiltrum,

24/02/2008 10:12:36
#24 TIMW 1234

I think you've been away for a long time if you still think that the Hootsmon is a quality newspaper. As for the other rag you mention, you're taste in music is better than your appreciation of the third estate Sir.......and on that basis...don't come back soon
(Prefer a little bit of Jackson Browne myself on a Sunday trawl through the papers !!)
27

bobafett,

falkirk 24/02/2008 10:31:30
as a publican I see these same scenarios week in week out you ask for I.D. its not a problem try typing fake ID into google see the result from £3-£20 depending on how accurate you want if you doubt it you then suffer the barrage of abuse thats verbal if your lucky or the damage they inflict on the way out. Not going to serve them because they have had too much "who me Im NOT drunk they say clinging to the bar by their fingertips who are you calling drunk ya little f...." same result yes 99% of us did drink underage wehad it as a rite of passage one which was earned by going into your local and merging with the rest of the drinking community not seeing it as the god given right at 15 or 16 nor trying to prove how big you were by consuming as much alcohol as possible and being the star of the party we no longer have functions for any celebrations under 21 as its not worth the aggro, mess or damage we still get it. An engagement party last night ended in 3 fights a pool of vomit a broken mirror in the gents and 3 empty vodka bottles in the ladies the couple were both 18 as were most of their guests we have a wetherspoons opening nearby soon the have been handing out flyers for cheap drinks promos etc it cant come quick enough hopefully it will attract the kind of customers I dont need or want
28

James Andrews,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 10:32:44
Before rushing to condemn youth just stop and think about the current choices they have. In my youth there were lots of dance halls in Edinburgh, unlicensed, there were church youth clubs and various dances held weekly in the many halls in and around Edinburgh. The council are busy cutting back on Community Centres, which were probably closed on Friday and Saturday evenings due to staff shortages, but the government is now helping to fund more police.
The only places left seem to be clubs which rely on the income from the bar to make them commercially viable. If they are controlled properly, and most are, there is no problem except lack of choice for younger people as the clubs have age limits which they enforce.
The real problem comes from shops selling alcohol, either directly or indirectly, to young people. Another source for alcohol is from the home. Many parents have no idea of the amount of alcohol they have and the kids exploit this ruthlessly. Despite all this it is for most part 'a right of passage in growing-up'. As they grow-up for the majority alcohol becomes a lesser priority.
Incidently there are youth clubs that are licensed, receive some government funding and generally cause little problems. Some of them are in Edinburgh. They are called student unions but have limited range of membership.
The more Kenny MacKaskill condems alcohol abuse the more attractive he will make it seem for young people.
29

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 24/02/2008 10:32:57
#3..... What does "rack off" mean ? Is that Edinburghese for "have another drink Mr.15 year old"! I sincerely hope that you are not a parent.
30

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 24/02/2008 10:35:12
# 27 Bobafett...... Well said!
31

Toast,

24/02/2008 10:40:29
#3 I don't know about you but when I was a teenager I did not carry a knife,was not constantly taking an aggressive attitude and had some respect for females and my elders,most teenagers are normal human beings,but there is a sizeable ammount that are the scum of the earth,have contributed nothing and think they have a right to do exactly as they please.
32

happyhibbie,

the Inch, Edinburgh 24/02/2008 10:45:22
Control freakery gone mad. First the fags, now the booze and gambling. What next? These control freaks will always have to target something that makes the lives of ordinary punters more pleasant.
33

jdships,

trinity 24/02/2008 11:07:25
One qustion I never hear answered is where the youngsters get the cash to buy "booze"
In late 40's ealy 50's I didn't drink because I could not afford it
Went dancing , "pictures " etc and didn't "need" to carry a knife.

Speaking to a few local teenager it seems pretty well unanimous that if they want alchol they get it from small licensed grocer's - certainly none spoke of "shopping" in large supermarkets
34

Gothic Rose,

24/02/2008 11:09:29
So whats new????
35

Gothic Rose,

24/02/2008 11:12:45
And listening to World Music Awards 2004
36

EK,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 11:18:44
I feel very strongly about the problem of alcohol abuse. The people in this country - teenagers, AND older people seem to think it's clever and fun to drink so much alcohol (and "conventional" drugs) that they make life unbearable for everyone around them - rowdy groups screeching and shouting at all hours, broken glass everywhere, discarded rubbish, food, vomit, urine, violence, intimidation... Those are short-term consequences; in the long term, their own ill health (which frankly I don't care about, but the tax payer will have to fund their treatment when their small brains and liver get damaged at age 35), social collapse, lack of education, nothing contributed to society by these brainless people are and will continue to be problems for others. Nothing for young people to do????? Anyone who can spend money on alcohol can spend money on sports, go to the cinema, drink coffee, meals, library, art is free (what more do they want?) The police, government council are right to hound these people who have a total disregard for society. How long do you think tourists will come to Edinburgh and Scotland with this filth and disgusting behaviour? I for one would not recommend it. Come on wake up. You're sitting on a time bomb.
37

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 24/02/2008 11:20:10
#26 Shiltrum

Philistine!
38

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 12:15:01
Soo the general agreement here is!
Our young don't attend High School
Don't attend Universities
Don't Play football or Sports
Don't Work (it was an illusion you saw serving you at the shops)

All this because they are..'All-Drunk' and/or suffering..'Hangovers'

What Sad 'uninitiated' People you are!, sitting in your house all day believing all you see in the Media!

'Get Real' and STOP Labeling all our young for the, 'FEW' that cause the problems.

And a 'tip' stick your TV in the bin! because its twisting the little minds y*u h*ve!
39

Gothic Rose,

24/02/2008 12:25:34
Oh Charles I do agree with you.Now Mellow down. xxxx
40

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 12:33:47
Gothic Rose @#8,
Nice to see you, hope you are well, I will try to, but it just maddens me!

The Hounding and Labelling is just getting past all levels of reason.
41

Max Born,

24/02/2008 12:40:47
Charles Linskaill,
You are a loud mouthed stoat the baw.
42

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 12:45:00
Max Born @#41,
Was that a complement,?
43

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 12:46:56
Anyway must go for now, if I am not back later,
'You-Win'!!
I got stabbed by one of your drunken youths!
44

Auckland Arab2,

24/02/2008 12:48:37
This man is the Gerald Ratner of his era. JD Weatherspoons are a significant contributor to the binge drinking culture with their £1 a drink and happy hour offers. That sort of thing hardly encourages sensible drinking with young people. No-one is suggesting closing pubs down but we do need to tackle this appalling social problem with under age and binge drinking. Off licences that are caught selling to under 18s should be closed and the licensee be banned from holding a liquor licence and sweep the drinking underagers off the street in a zero tolerance policy that has teeth. A night in the cells might sober them up.
45

Rulesbutnotrulers,

Federation, not separation 24/02/2008 12:56:17
Raise the price of drink and its consumption will fall. This is a truth generally acknowledged by common observation and experience, not to say research by economists and super markets.

Restrict the supply of drink and drunkenness will fall. Also observable in many ordinary situations.

Most people feel they can control their drinking and so self-righteously feel they should not be penalised by penalties aimed at the few.

Sadly, most laws are aimed at controlling the bad conduct of the few, but have to be framed to include us all, the just and pure. It is hard to see how drink can be withheld from a target group. Let's face it, drink and drugs get smuggled into prisons which one would have thought should be pretty well sealed up.

Personally I fancy the idea of compulsory drinking licences run along similar lines to driving licences, with tough penalties for those who drink unlicensed or badly. If this licence had to be shown every time drink was purchased it creates a paper trail to those who supply booze to the unlicensed. The breweries can meet the cost of setting up and running such a scheme.
46

busbyfh,

24/02/2008 13:26:05
It all starts on street corners and in parks when 13 year olds start drinking booze from corner shops - DID YOU HEAR THAT _ CORNER SHOPS !
Supermarkets that are getting the blame would not sell booze to 13-16 year olds.Ask kids - they will confirm this.
Adults will suffer from supermarket prices going up because the familiarity of kids with corner shop owners will continue to allow teenagers to get wasted on cheap - usually - cider.
Close the shops selling this booze to youngsters down.

It is all a govenment push to get taxes on drink put up by an extreme level. After all the money is short and it has to come from somewhere to fund all the military involvement throughout the Empire (OOPS forgot - there is not one anymore - still plenty wars though)
47

EK,

Edinburgh 24/02/2008 15:28:27
#38 Charles - All you need is "a few" people to cause meyhem - there is a large enough percentage of young or youngish people drinking too much and behaving badly to cause problems for our society. Of course many of our young people are well-behaved but it's not them we are talking about. And please don't assume i sit at home all day looking at the media's portrayal at the state of affairs - I can see it with my own eyes in the evenings, espically on weekend nights. It's a disgrace.
48

okanaganguy,

kelowna,b.c. canada 24/02/2008 16:19:30
We have strict laws here re: serving minors in bars, liquor stores, etc. You must have picture I.D. i.e drivers licence or what is called "an age of majority" photo i.d. to purchase or be served alcohol. Some folks who are of age but look younger can be asked for photo i.d. Birth certificates are not acceptable. The onus is on the serving establishment. Bar owners and even the wait staff can be charged for serving underage drinkers. The penalties can be severe fines or loss of licence to sell. It seems to me to be a simple solution to the underage pub drinking over there. regards
49

JoeMcT,

BlairsFantasyIsland 24/02/2008 16:28:49
It's a fairly crass comment for the Chief of a Pub chain to make, but maybe he's now dependent on underage drinker's to prop up the ever decreasing value of his Company's shares?
50

ex-labour,

24/02/2008 17:29:02
Charles Linskaill is absolutely correct. Every generation fears their youth. Leave them alone.

However, the type of things that our teens are exposed to are way beyond what went in the past. The media swamp them with images of lowlife celebrity druggies, sex and financial scandals, and hold out instant fame as a lifestyle choice - on the other side, there are constant reports of ADULT paedophiles, murderers, political corruption ad infinitum. This is their expectations of adulthood.

I'd get drunk and tooled up too if I was still a teenager. It's a scary world out there
51

Alan B,

24/02/2008 18:15:32
Better to lower the age that u are allow to go into a pub to 17. Not allowing access to pubs means u end up with people drinking on the street. There is nothing wrong with having a drink sensibly. It would be probably a good idea to put up the age for alcohol for spirits too. ie a beer only till 21 type policy.

This should be done in conjuction of properly enforsing alcohol sold to under-agers in off licenses etc.
52

Drum Major,

24/02/2008 22:21:25
The problem is to be able to teach teens about responsible drinking. We have already been through this part of the exercise. Keeping teens out of pubs is only the first part of the equation. When kept out of pubs and bottle shops they move to the streets or parties at homes as stupid adults buy them a heap of alcohol and leave them to binge drink. These adults are being proscecuted. Invitations to parties are not to be by email or text and not passed on. Those guilty of passing invitations on to people not originally invited get the damages bill and the bill from police. We only have responsible teens if they are supervised by responsible adults. There are to many alcohol soaked adults feeding teens alcohol to hide their alcohol dependance. The view of a pub chain owner is always going to be that of more bums on seats more profits. The next exercise is to provide activities for teens such as dances etc where there is either no alcohol or it is strictly controlled. Then and only then will they learn that binge drinking is not the only game in town.
53

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 25/02/2008 04:05:31
Pubs and retailers found to be selling alcohol to minors should suffer permanent and irrevocable loss of license and should be banned from ever being licensed again. That should be the minimum penalty. Those that serve alcohol to minors who go on to commit a criminal act should also be charged as an accessory to that offence. The attitude of these licensed drug dealers is appalling.
54

Drum Major,

Queensland, Australia 25/02/2008 04:14:17
#39 Gothic Rose Good to see you are drinking Queensland Beer XXXX.
55

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 25/02/2008 04:27:23
Marc Horne wrote:
"Across the road a baby-faced lad of around 16 attempts to scramble up some metal scaffolding. Cheered on by his beery mates, each of whom wears a strict uniform of checked designer shirts and jeans, the glassy-eyed, ginger-haired teenager swings from a bar like an inebriated chimp before being moved on by police officers." I wish to draw your attention to the unfair comparison of Scottish Teenagers to "an inebriated chimp", in Indonesia we don't have any chimps per see but we do have quite a few orangutan's. I have had the pleasure of drinking with a few of them and I can assure you that they behave much more sensibly after a few drinks than any Scottish teenagers. Them may share the same ginger colored hair but I have never seen an orangutan parade around wearing a traffic cone for a hat after a few drinks. Something I have seen drunken Scottish Teens attempt on many occasions. Please stop the comparisons to upper primates, there are utterly more sensible.
56

Drum Major,

Queensland, Australia 25/02/2008 04:52:47
#26 TimW1234 Philistines were found in modern day Gaza then known as Palestine. The remainder of the area was Judea in the south, Samaria in the middle, the northern kingdom of Israel. These three had been one kingdom under David & Solomon. Samson toppled the temple in Gaza. Philistines are known for making unfounded claims, destroying relics and refusing to acknowledge the land of the Jews. Nothing has changed in 3000 years.
57

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 25/02/2008 10:08:56
#58 Drum Major

Thank you VERY MUCH indeed for your exhaustive and pedantic explanation of just who the Philistines were.

Perhaps I should have used the lower case for the initial letter - you KNOW what I meant by that term.

Don't be so uppity. It was an interesting read though and we ALL thank you for your obvious erudition as must all your friends and family who are subjected to it on a daily basis. Oh joy!
58

Resolutions,

25/02/2008 13:07:17
Just catching up on this!

If our recent experiences are anything to go by, under-age drinking is and excessive drinking is out of hand. We used to occasionally meet someone out of their mind here - very occasionally.

Over the last year we've had youngsters running around all hours of the night, shouting, swearing running through gardens, vomit, broken glass, banging on doors, windows, chucking stones through letterboxes and so on. Why are these young kids -14 to 16 approx running around the streets at 1.30am, and behaving in such a way?
OK we got into mischief too, but if we had been out at that time at that age, our parents would have dealt with us pretty firmly.
We are not knew in this area so can see the LACK of PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY which is going to lead to greater problems as these brats grow older.
59

EK,

Edinburgh 25/02/2008 14:01:32
# 57 and #60 - Hear hear!!!!!!!!!

 

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