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UK troops 'should do longer Afghan tours'



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Published Date: 13 May 2008
VICTORY over the Taleban in Afghanistan would be achieved more quickly if British troops lengthened their tours of duty, according to the commander of Nato forces in Afghanistan.
General Dan McNeill, of the United States army, said longer tours would lead to a swifter victory against the insurgents, which could, in turn, result in a cut in the number of international troops as early as 2011.

He said soldiers on 15-month tours had outperformed British troops, who spend six months at a time in Afghanistan, and he revealed he had met British defence chiefs to discuss ways of improving the UK's counter-insurgency strategy.

He said: "Tour length does matter. If you can embrace a tour length that keeps your force on the ground for a longer period of time, but at the same time does not jeopardise the health of your volunteer force, you are likely to see better results in counter-insurgency operations."

The general, who is nearing the end of a marathon 17-month stint in Kabul, said longer tours were key to winning the counter-insurgency because they let soldiers develop a better understanding of the country.

Violence has increased across Afghanistan during his tenure, but he insisted the soldiers getting the best results were US troops on 15-month tours in the east of the country. British troops are mainly based in Helmand, in the south.

He said: "Counter-insurgency doctrine, applied in its purest form and having tremendous effects, is done best in Afghanistan in the east. The 15-month tour lengths contributed to that by allowing US soldiers, and their leaders, to establish and maintain relationships with the terrain, with the indigenous people and their leaders, and with the enemy – and then, over time, to fully exploit those relationships to the advantage of the alliance.

"Onerous as it was to the families and soldiers, it produced some good results."

Gen McNeill's remarks follow claims earlier this year by Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, that British, Canadian and Dutch troops do not know how to fight counter-insurgency operations.

British colonial officers in the 19th century used to spend years at a time in remote Afghan frontier posts, but Gen McNeill admitted longer tours today would put more strain on families and increase pressure on an already overstretched force.

"Everybody else's army has to figure out what works for them," he said. "Repetitive tour lengths, short dwell times back (home] is not necessarily in the best interests of the health of the force. I would simply point out that tour length does matter when you are fighting a counter-insurgency."

On the orders of President George Bush, US troops in eastern Afghanistan are switching in August from 15- to 12-month tours, to reduce the strain on soldiers. But they will still spend about twice as long on each tour as their UK counterparts.

British soldiers usually spend six months in Afghanistan, but the massive demand on the UK's armed forces means thousands of troops are getting less time at home in between operations.

Many of those currently in Helmand are on their second tour of Afghanistan, after enduring six months of ferocious fighting in the summer of 2006.

Lt Col Robin Matthews, the British forces' spokesman in Afghanistan, said senior officers worked hard to share what was learned from one tour to the next. He said: "An ongoing and comprehensive liaison is conducted between the in-place headquarters and that which will take over from it."

The Ministry of Defence said: "Personnel in a number of key appointments have had their tours lengths extended to allow for greater continuity, particularly in posts that involve building relationships with local Afghans. However, in order to allow a good balance between time spent on operations, training and at home, the majority of our forces will continue to undertake six month deployments."


The full article contains 654 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 May 2008 2:24 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Afghanistan
 
1

Navvy,

13/05/2008 01:15:31
What the general says rings true

We should start with Des and Gordon Brown(e) moving to Helmand for 18 months
2

Guga II,

Rockall 13/05/2008 04:24:27
Yet another general that hasn't read any history books.
3

,

13/05/2008 05:18:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Annlass,

Toronto 13/05/2008 05:44:16
#2.. Guga11 I totally agree, the General should read more history books. My Scottish grandfather served with the Seaforth Highlanders in Afghanistan at the end of the 19th century and was decorated for Bravery as well as receiving the Afghanistan Medal for actions against insurgents (translate Taliban). How do I know, I have in front of me a copy of "Caber Feihd" giving an account of his life. He was a well decorated NCO and received a Military Funeral from Maryhill Barracks(1932). Am I making my point? Why the hell are we still fighting in a lost cause?. Our government is well aware that sending our troops is just supplying cannon fodder. Bring the boys home.
5

Jim A,

13/05/2008 06:19:29
IMHO this General is talking crap, longer tours make for more casualties. At around the six month point the edge starts coming off, guys are tired which leads to mistakes which leads to deaths. Imagine everyday getting ready for a patrol, your wondering what's going to happen today, no one says it but it's there in the back of your mind. You'll do your job of that there is no doubt but your still scared, your not human if your not just a wee bit scared. Believe me, six month tours are long enough.
6

Pender Paul,

Pender Island 13/05/2008 06:42:03
The war is Afghanistan is a lost cause. It was trumped up by the Yanks, NATO was never intended to be used anywhere but Europe, it is a waste of lives and money and General Dan McNeill is a nutter if he thinks the key to success is a longer tour of duty. Bring the troops home and stop supporting Yankee Imperialism.
7

Pip10,

Kent 13/05/2008 06:53:00
1. The government would have to be willing and able to pay a significant increase in Army pay for longer tours (increased risk, increased time away from home disatisfaction too)
2. They could bring in conscription, but the Russians had the numbers in Afghanistan which conscription gives, but morale and preofessionalism are masssively lower then.
3.I have a son who like me has VOLUNTEERED for the Britich Army. He will not be fully trained for another 3 years nearly and I am (unrealistically) hoping Afghanistan will be stable by then (I know it will not be as Anlass at #2 said as like you I read my history (I read a higher form of Killing by Jeremy Paxman in 1983 before joining the Army which mentions the first use of Mustard Gas by the BRITISH which was in Afghanistan!!!!). I'll get to my point, half way thru his basic training, he is quite rightly for my mind looking at what he wants in life and whilst having very good reports from his instructors is seriously thinking of leaving because he's not sure that even six months tours away from what he wants in life are what he wants to spend his life doing.
4. As a nation, we need Armed Forces and committed, well trained and well paid good serviceman to remain whether we agree with Iraq or Afghanistan (I left in part due to the inevitable move towards the second Gulf War which I disagreed with in principle). Afghanistan is a more difficult one and I was in two minds whether we should get involved or not and remain of tgwo minds whetehr we should withdraw or not. I hope my son stays EVEN if we stay in Afghanistan (I will just have to live with it). If we are still in Iraq when he's fully trained, I would hope and expect, (like me), he will look at the priciples of an Illegal invasion of an unfailed but hostile Sovereign State and consider buying himself out (if that is still possible)
5. This Government have not realised the implications of paying a Police Community Support Officer (PCSO) MORE than a Serviceman who ma
8

Major (Retd) Michael Hamilton, KOSB,

Cyprus 13/05/2008 07:16:23
Great in theory but our troops are overstretched already and to send those recently back from a 6 month tour on a fresh tour of 15 months would simply accelerate the loss of trained personnel.
9

Dbxsteve,

West Kilbride 13/05/2008 07:30:10
Why are we there again?

Oh yes, post 9/11 the Americans needed someone to hit back and on the basis that someone said that Osama was hiding behind a tree somewhere in Afganistan we went in.

Nearly 7 years later we have checked behind all the trees and guess what Osama is not there but we are now trying to prop up an American imposed regime....the lessons of history? The Americans aren't that sophisticated....they still think they can defeat an ideology.

The BBC reported in 2000. "But it was not purely a question of ethnicity. Ordinary Afghans, weary of the prevailing lawlessness in many parts of the country, were often delighted by Taleban successes in stamping out corruption, restoring peace and allowing commerce to flourish again."

This is a war that cannot be won.
10

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

THORNHILL 13/05/2008 07:54:49
Repeat-Repeat-Repeat.Our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan were based on he whim and doings of less than truthful POLITITIANS. The same strangers of the truth will never get us out until they are voted out of office. I pray for the troops and their families that the electorate remember all the lies.
Where are the sons of the polititians? Certainly not supporting the grandsons of HM, although the same mactakers will grace HM company at Sandringham, perhaps begetting a wean.
Broons and Blair, grow up, face the real world resign and remove to anonymity.
11

sam the god,

13/05/2008 08:05:57
We need the other countries that are out there to do more rather than leave it all to the UK and the USA.
12

margo,

Falkirk 13/05/2008 08:08:01
what do you mean longer tours of duty I thought our boys were coming home, and let them protect their own country over here in alliance with the police, the US are all for the glory last man standing and all that, they say jump we jump eh right
13

scottish person,

paisley 13/05/2008 08:31:04

Violence has increased across Afghanistan during his tenure, but he insisted the soldiers getting the best results were US troops on 15-month tours in the east of the country. British troops are mainly based in Helmand, in the south.

Another American talking crap. I think he wants to be the next president. Tell him we have read history and know it is an illegal war, our soldiers should not be there.
14

James Donald,

Newbridge 13/05/2008 08:59:31
From EURASIA INSIGHT 02/05/2007 which gives an insight into the kind of General McNeill is (as compared with his Britis predesessor Gen.

"Officials in several European countries have quietly expressed concern about placing an American general in charge of the NATO force. Richards tried to create a less harsh, more economic-development-oriented identity for NATO in Afghanistan, as compared to the ‘’kicking-down-doors’’ image that US forces have. Many local analysts expect NATO forces to embrace a more aggressive stance under McNeill, who is believed to oppose the type of local peace arrangements that Richards promoted. The danger at this point is that an overly aggressive NATO force in Afghanistan could alienate Afghans, and thus cause the Taliban’s support base to grow"

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav020507.shtml

McNeill already has more troops under his command than General Richards had but, like most Generals, wants more for longer. Since the British Army (including its reserves) is streched to breaking point, let him ask for more US troops for longer since their Army is many times the size of the British Army and better equipped.
15

Shug the Dug,

Edinburgh 13/05/2008 09:17:19
Point 1: Our lads are in Helmand Province. The US were there and had their a***s kicked. Our commanders in theatre are happy with our performance and achievements. I se no mention of their having recommended longer tours.

Point 2: Our Army is recognised as probably they most experienced and capable counter-insurgency army in the world today. The US has no history of any notable successful counter-insurgency action.

Point 3: From past and current methods and practices the US appear determined to adopt tactics that contribute nothing of significance to winning 'hearts and minds'. The Brits have shown repeatedly that their tactics and strategies are second to none in acquiring 'local knowledge', of learning their ground, of better training in cultural factors in inter-personal skills at even the lowest and most basic levels and in all rankse.g. no hiding behind sunglasses, accidental/deliberate cultural insults like placing soles of the boot on detainees etc. Watch the clips of the typical US soldier! You cannot engage with the people if you hide behind fast moving armour, most of the time inside beleaguered fortresses, physical and verbal aggression and cultural ignorance
as the social norm for any interaction with the locals!

I believe the advice should be given in the opposite direction - we have the more successful experience, the proven skills, a better appreciation and understanding at all levels.

Finally, to all those who refer to previous history in Afghanistan, the early British tactics were based on convention concepts of using military force - conventional warfare where superior numbers, better materiel, non-disciminating weaponry like gas which cannot identify friend from foe, guilty from innocent are the norm; where decisions are made in an imperialistic way working on simplistic culural stereotyping and an absolute conviction of their racial superiority. For British Empire with its outmoded tactics now read US empire with very much those
16

shivago8,

livingston 13/05/2008 09:20:20
More time in the Afghan,troops to quell trouble in schools,troops cant feed themselves and their families.The labour party hate the troops,they dont pay them,send them to war without the proper equipment.
PLACE THEM INTO A BLOB,do away with there regiments.
There actions mean that sodjers are walking away.
DO YOU BLAME THEM.
Lost there identity,uniforms,names,accoutrements,regimental area,s,regimental colours,stay in the one place for ever and a day.
By the govt,s actions all regiments are sadly depleted and overstretch now exists.
Have in the form of the MOD the worst employer in the universe.
Senoir officers worried only about their big handouts ,lucrative jobs on leaving,not worried about the jock.
Lions led by DONKEYS.
Do you blame the sodjers for walking,no-no-no-
I would not go near the ARMED SERVICES.
17

Boggle fey the Bog,

13/05/2008 09:20:26
Another Yank, with a 'Gung Ho' attitude, it didn't work against the NVA or the VC, so what makes him think that he , an invader, can make it work in Afghanistan?

The Yanks always seem to forget how hard they fought to defend and set up their country, because if they were to reflect on that, they would realise, that you cannot defeat people who are fighting for their freedom and retention of their sovereign rights, however they may see them.

Time for the Yanks and the rest of NATO to work out an 'exit strategy'.

The Yanks have failed! Poppy production has never been higher, under their stewardship. When the British wanted to napalm the poppy fields and bring in 'cash crops' for the farmers the Yanks 'vetoed' the plan.

They only have themselves to blame for the mess they have got themselves into.

Blind Faith is not good, and Blind Faith in your leaders will get you killed.

In the words of that old 60's anti-Veitnam war protest song ---

BRING 'EM HOME!!!
18

AJ Fife,

13/05/2008 10:01:49
How is the pipeline in Afghanistan coming along anyway?

Is the Bush dynasty coffers starting to swell with blood money yet?

Bring the boys home now!
19

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 13/05/2008 10:28:12
#16

Just as well as they wouldn't want you.
20

ddmc,

13/05/2008 10:54:45
7 years in Afghanistan & what has been achieved ?

Opium production through the roof & protected from destruction by the US (who says the CIA don't smuggle drugs !)

Thousands of innocents killed

DU contamination for the next millennia
21

bluehead,

edinburgh 13/05/2008 11:17:39
British soldiers should be brought back to patrol the streets,! this country is becoming a war zone with all the crime that is being committed.
let the americans get on with it,the troops should be
brought back home to this country where they are needed.
it would seem that we are always doing what other countries tell us, it is time to tell them to take along walk of a short pier
22

scunnin,

Germany 13/05/2008 13:03:10
I think this American General has lost touch with reality. Our troops work hard, endure tough experiences that none of us could ever understand and work in extremely difficult circumstances. Just because we are fighting this American war, why should our troops suffer?

I mean we are already giving so much to the Americans as their Allies, I am sick and tired of people who are overpaid like this General critising our troops who are some of the best in the World. I think its high time we pull our troops out of these places and let the Americans get on with it if they think they know better than everyone else.

Our Officers, crew members, infantry etc of every part of the Armed Forces work hard. Listen to BFBS radio which you can get on sky or www.bfbs.com .. this is the Forces Radio on a Sunday between 10-2 and you will hear their families giving messages to their loved ones who are just aching to have them home again.

I also know in my own work that overworked people just burn out faster and you have to replace them much quicker, thus creating a void where knowledge was. Keep doing what we are doing guys!

And keep your heads down the guys out on Patrol and come back safely!
23

scunnin,

Vienna 13/05/2008 13:09:09
#10 Jock ex 45Cdo RM - I want to say thankyou to you for putting your life on the line for us and doing what your orders asked of you and your country. Thankyou for risking so much for us and any ex-forces and present Forces. We have lost enough troops because of being in a war that isnt winnable and like others have said, arent we meant to be bringing troops home rather than increasing times on deployment....
24

scunnin,

Vienna 13/05/2008 13:10:25
#23 maybe the General shoul "go boil yer heid" ... I think its appropriate here ..
25

Graham Barnes,

Gravesend, Kent 13/05/2008 14:19:43
I think 21 Bluehead got it right. Our troops are fighting an illegal war, short of equipment, and one which they cannot win. They should be pulled out and deployed over here, in this increasingly hostile environment of ours. The closure of police stations over here means that we no longer have bobbies on the beat, and our own streets need policing properly. Our troops would do a much better job than those currently trying to do it, where litter bugs or people putting rubbish in the wrong bins are regarded as the real criminals. This country is becoming a very violent one and someone needs to take hold of the reins and police it properly. Our boys shouldn't have to be shot at and killed fighting a war for something that doesn't concern them.
26

Phil1,

Edinburgh 13/05/2008 14:27:34
The problem with American generals is that they want to re-make the world - and do it the American way.In an alliance different forces do things differently.When you are an American General in A NATO appointment it is not for you to compare one country's troops with another, you command what you are given. If any one wants your Amercian General's opinion they can wait until you get back to America. The general should act like a NATO member not a 'Yankee'.

British Forces can read and write when they join, they are used to making decisions themselves by showing initiative. American troops are often uneducated and certainly never use their initiaitive. Just because they are there for a long time doesn't make them any use or any good?

It's what you do when you are there that counts. So let the American's stay for 24 months - they need the time to learn how to do a good job.
27

Boggle fey the Bog,

13/05/2008 14:37:18
21 bluehead,edinburgh 13/05/2008 11:17:39

You've really lost it owld son, haven't ye.
This country is nothing like the criminal war zone you are fantasising about. Anyway that's what we have a Police Force for, if the problem is not enough on the 'beat' to tackle crime then dig the lazy fat B'stards out of their cushy orfice jobs, as the Chief Constable of Strathclyde is already doing.

As a former member of HM armed forces, I can attest that the last thing that any of them want to do is 'patrol' the streets of 'Britain' to keep crime down.

You are obviously a right wing loon, with little or no comprehension of the purpose of the Armed Services, and there raison d'etre.

However, I do agree with you on one thing, that being we should 'bring 'em home' from this Illegal and unjust war.

27 Phil1,Edinburgh 13/05/2008 14:27:34

That about sums up the yanks Phill, there 'kill rate' is actually quite low, when you exclude 'friendly fire' incidents, and the amount of 'rounds' they fire that are ineffective.

US strategy has always been 'shock and awe', but the only people who are 'shocked' by them are generally their allies, and they always hold themselves in 'awe'.

They are probably one of the most inefficient armed services on the Earth, with an over reliance on electronic gadgetry.

However if the General, thinks that our Forces are 'not up to the job', then he should ask for them to be 'removed from theatre'. After all he is the Supreme Allied Commander Afghanistan, is he not?
28

maintenancejason,

Pennsylvania 13/05/2008 14:54:09
I'm an American Libertarian who said this "war" was illegal from the beggining. Everyone now is acting like they have always been against it but 95% of you were all for it initially. Only when it's clear that there is no winning does everyone flip-flop opinions, now that it's politically correct to object. If the public didn't buy into everything that's fed to them, there would have been much more opposition back in 2001 and maybe we wouldn't have gone in to begin with. Stop being sheep and think! Politicians want your vote. Tell them want we want, don't let them tell you what you need.
29

mike - across the pond,

pardon me.... 13/05/2008 15:12:52
but I think you guys are missing the point...

LOOK at your casualty rates, vs missions over time...

I'm not saying that 15 month (or 12 month) tours of duty are the greatest thing since sliced bread, BUT... it is a FACT that the casualty rate/mission is HIGHER in the first 3-6 months than it is later on, and those casualties result in higher casualty rates in the more experienced troops as well...

what the general was saying is that the longer you are there, the more effective you will be in ALL phases of your job.

that said, there does come a time when it is time for a soldier/marine/airman to come home... 12-15 months seems adequate...

I want YOUR guys to come nome in one piece just as bad as I want MINE to.... if longer tours mean ALL our boys come home sooner... then lets all be adults about it... ok?
30

mike - across the pond,

ah jason 13/05/2008 15:37:02
are you a conspiracy theorist?

apparently you want a quick & simple solution... I'm surprised you arent jumping up and down on the table screaming "nuke the whales, nuke em all!!!"

try THIS on for size... the 9/11 hijackers 14 of them were Saudi (as is BinLaden)... WHY... why would citizens of one of our "allies" feel compelled to do this kind of thing?

because they feel "disenfranchized"... they dont feel they have liberties... they dont believe they have the freedoms WE have... they are JEALOUS...

"we hold these truths to be self evident, that ALL men are created equal"

do YOU beleieve that THEY do not deserve those freedoms?

if they lived those "freedoms", would they have ended up on those planes?

if they LIVED those "freedoms", would they embrace the whackadoo teachings of the extremist mullahs?

THAT is why we are there, to install democracies... those democracies will take time to take hold... THAT is the "hearts & minds" battle we fight

"if it takes 100 years, so be it"

- or -

"cut and run".... and hope that they will just leave us alone....

like clinton did in Afghanistan...
31

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 13/05/2008 15:42:14
#30

Mike we haven't lost anyone in contact this year, all casualties have been IEds or suicide bombers. Malaya,Kenya,Cyprus,Yemen, Sieraa Leone, Northern Ireland(you guys funded that one). We know what we are doing!
32

PJ,

Edinburgh 13/05/2008 17:10:33
#30 & 31

Afghanistan or the mujahideen another pet that bit the hand of their owner were significantly financed, armed, and trained by the CIA during the Carter and Reagan administrations as they fought against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan during the 1980s and then fought against each other in the subsequent Afghan Civil War. Osama bin Liner was a prominent organizer and financier of an all Arab islamist group of foreign volunteers; his Maktab al-Khadamat funnelled money, arms, and Muslim fighters from around the world into Afghanistan, with the assistance and support of the Saudi and Pakistani governments.

An interesting fact that about the 1993 World Trade Centre bombing, they used a manual written by the CIA for the Mujahideen fighters in Afghanistan on how to make explosives. Also one of the conspirators involved in the bombing, was allowed to go over to the US and recruit Arab-Americans to fight in Afghanistan against the Soviets. The early foundations of al-Qaida was built in part on the relationships and weaponry that came from the billions of dollars in U.S. support for the Afghan mujahidin during the war to expel Soviet forces from that country.

The resulting problem, "Blowback" which is a CIA term used to describe the unintended consequences of their covert operations abroad.
33

getinnnn,

Scotland 13/05/2008 17:35:51
Well:.....as long as We are at the beck & call of the U.K Government; We Scots can expect to "jump to it" whenever someone else decides that We Scots are needed for fighting: Time to rule Ourselves.....300 Years ago......
34

shivago8,

livingston 13/05/2008 18:26:59
#19 politit.
I did for forty years,but that was when the sodjers were led by lions and not as donkeys as they are now
35

should have gone to specsavers,

Thurso 13/05/2008 19:00:30
'#23: "Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, that British, Canadian and Dutch troops do not know how to fight counter-insurgency operations"

Would that be the same Robert Gates who flew into Iraq after the invasion, strutted around as if he'd had something to do with conquering the place, told the generals how to do their job, and then recomended disbanding the iraqi army which duly caused chaos?
36

mike - across the pond,

#32... 13/05/2008 19:07:28
good for you...

you dont object to extening "tours of duty" then?
37

mike - across the pond,

33 PJ... 13/05/2008 19:14:09
and good for you too...

I take it that you agree that leaving the afghans to the tender mercies of the soviets would have been a BAD thing...???

the problem with the CIA aid during carter/reagan/bush-1.... is not so much that they helped them... its that when the soviets gave up and walked away... CLINTON turned his back on them and decided that they could "go it on their own".... Afghanistan turned into a political cess pit.... we all got the Taliban.... now THERE is some "blowback"...

keep connecting the dots & painting the picture... it'll all come into focus...
38

indune1,

Canada 13/05/2008 21:47:10

Our troops in Afghanistan do a 6 month rotation.

In the four years we have been there we have been, for the most part, in the most dangerous province.

We have taken a number of casualties - over 80 killed and almost 400 wounded.

I have several friends who have now done two tours. They are professional soldiers and would do a third tour.

None of them agree with tour extensions. However, they say the increasing frequency of tours could amount to the same thing and result in the negative effects that previous posters have noted.

All of them say that they have witnessed progress in improving conditions for the Afghan people.

However, on another point. I find it curious that the military support of the Karzai government is described by numerous posters as being illegal. In what sense?

The overall mission has been sanctioned by the UN and NATO - unlike the war in Iraq.

As to the possibility of lasting stability for Afghanistan brought about by the military campaign - that is another matter.

39

Pip10,

39 Indent 13/05/2008 22:19:48
I know what you mean re Afgahnistan, hence why on that one I was an still remain in two minds.
Lot of good posts on here which actually sounds like we are all in basic agreement, just some are focusing on different facts and or have different experiences/level of knowledge. The internet can be a very useful thing now and has levelled up the knowledge levels of politicians and voters.
I feel guilty for resigning before Iraq on principle and having to watch friends go out there who didn't view the conflict in Iraq in the same way as me and then finding that I can no longer do my bit in Afghanistan simply becuase my principles meant I could not pick and choose on my commitment and willingness to fight different wars.
40

Thistledhu,

13/05/2008 22:20:44
year plus tours brings complacency, pattern setting, and morale fatigue issues.

the six month tour is a tried and tested period of time
when the US can show a single conflict where they have done well against terrorists i will rethink my veiws but that i think is some time away
41

Thistledhu,

13/05/2008 22:27:11
pip curiouse to know how you managed to resign before Iraq with the way terms of service are now are
42

Anne,

Eaglesham 13/05/2008 22:40:28
Perhaps worth noting that the only army to be wholly successful in counter-insugency was the British Army in Malaya.

Had the Amricans taken on board the lessons learned there, they might not have been so humiliated in Vietnam.
43

indune1,

13/05/2008 23:04:15
43 - Excellent point. However, there is no way the American military could have got away in using the tactics that the British forces sometimes employed in Malaya ( perhaps explained by the omnipresent media in Vietnam).

Hearts and Minds - yes. But when they disagreed, Special Forces usually got them by the bal*s to ensure that the latter followed.

It was at times a very vicious and brutal campaign.
44

"Scotty",

Minnesota, Usa 13/05/2008 23:31:26
Trust a Yank to criticise the British troops. Daddy Bush was the one who didn't finish things off when he was in office - - - anyone in their right mind does not want any of the troops from ALL over the world to be in Afganistan and especially in Iraq, George "Jr"s war. All we've done is make many, many more enemies.
45

Pip10,

14/05/2008 07:26:49
Thistleedu - TA, not Reg, Resigned in 2000 after 16 years service (knowingley signing contracts each time, including the change after GW1 from Queens proclomation to individual call up and like most other NCOs, willingley changed to the new contract despite still being part way thru old style contracts as to stick on teh old one would have been immoral when recruits were coming in on the new one). Resigned 2 weeks after signing another four year contract. Had friends just back from Kosovo and wasn't too convinced about that and looking at the way the political wind was blowing I could no longer commit morally to all the conflicts this government looked likely (and then did) get us in to.
I couldn't quite work out why I didn't get a call in 2003 or later in some ways, but personally thatw as probably good as had I have been recalled for Afghhan I would have gone, but for Iraq, I would rather have gone to prison.................
and oh yes I have to agree with 45 Scotty in Minesotta.
46

Subodai,

China 14/05/2008 12:02:16
UKUS must stay in AFghanistan
47

Thistledhu,

14/05/2008 22:08:17
speaking as retired regular soldier haveing completed 22 years service in 2006. profesional soldiers can not and do not pick and choose there conflicts.
if you cant handle the thought of being deployed you should not have joined
48

PJ,

Edinburgh 15/05/2008 12:13:05
# 38

The problem with that theory is you end up with the fiasco you have now and as they say people playing with matches get burned!

By the way I have done operational tours, have you?

 

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