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Why is anyone surprised ? Children's Panels are a complete waste of time for young offenders. They have no powers whatsoever !! They simply don't work. A youngster who is a habitual offender is well aware that there is nothing that can be done to him/her until they are old enough to be dealt with by the adult court system.
Children are running around the streets of the Capital and most members of the public are totally unaware !.
Kids are committing serious 'adult' crimes - assault, reobbery, car theft, house breaking to name a few and nothing happens to the little thugs. Why not ? Namby pamby do-gooders who think that the little toads suffer from bad parenting. Rubbish. There are far to few secure places and even a child who has committed an attempted murder will not necessarily get a secure place (and those fools in the public who cry foul at the merest suggestion that the little thugs be locked in an adult prison !!). Society gets the kids it deserves and we are allowing a generation of kids to literally get away with anything.
I've long since not bothered notifying the police when I see a youngster committing a crime. What's the point. Nothing is going to be done about the child........
I've learned a simple rule. The public needs to take the law into its own hands. We can no longer rely on the police to deal with young criminals. Police are excellent at charging drivers (it's about all they seem to be able to do) but catch a crook - no chance !!!
Next time you catch a kid committing and offence, take him into a dark corner and give him a good hiding !!!!! Make sure there are no witnesses !!!!!
15 year old boy commits 800 offences - says it all really !!!!!
Isn't there a spare island off the Scottish coast that might be used to house them?
#1,#2. syntax,Gosh you have a cynical view of our youngsters, believe me, they are, NOT 'all bad'You make them sound like, 'Wild Animals', which I assure you, the 'Majority' are not!Maybe you have a 'Gripe' or are 'just-old' ??As for your comment,"take him into a dark corner and give him a good hiding !!!!! Make sure there are no witnesses !!!!!"..Thats up to you, just dont get caught! because, it is a serious offence and makes you, NO better, than the 'Few' that do cause trouble!
I have had personal experience of a 'social work department' with reference to having children's details sent the the Children's Reporter. They are trying everything in their power to remove my children from my estranged husband. The children are happy staying where they were. They sent the children to the Panel unneccessarily and now how the social work department have been found out as writing lies in their reports. I will not name which social work department but they do not know the meaning of the word professional. They goad my estranged husband then write how he is aggressive. They tell one thing to my estranged husband and a totally different thing to my children. It is a waste of money and time having the children refered to the Panel and they should be channelling the resources in more needy cases. No doubt there are cases where children need to be protected but all the time they are hassling innocent people then the children who really need the care get forgotten about.
#4, Charles for god's sake wake up man. 40 years of liberal hand wringing has given us an underclass of feral youth growing up with no idea of responsibilities and living in harmony with others. We've pandered and made it easy for these criminals they don't understand and we have to now take a different approach.
No they're not all bad and no they're not all wild animals, but you don't have to be "old" to have a "gripe" when you're a crime statistic and the trouble makers don't even get a telling off. Try living on an inner city estate and I know you'll change your mind
#4its time you grew up and looked at the real world, there is no discipline at home or in the schools, the police dare not say a word to the little thugs for fear of legal action against them.A security guard beaten to death by a gang of children, some as young as 10 , as they set fire to a primary school.The parents tell them not to worry , the cops cant touch you because your too young.All the touchy feelie do gooders stand around wringing their hands and saying the poor wee lambs are misunderstood.WRONG, all we do these days is bow to minority rule, rather than stand up and say we will not tolerate this, we allow a minority of useless goody two shoes morons to dictate that the majority of us should suffer rather than take action against to stop this behaviour.
If you think that this sounds alarming just think on - in only a few years these young thugs will be parents themselves (some already are!!). Just imagine what the next generation of children are going to be like.
I have to put up with the little B@ST@RDS at work,taking all sorts of abuse.I was walking in the street the other day,when one recognised me and started his usual "banter"."Ah'm no at work noo ya wee cee word"Said I,walking towards him.Should have seen him run:-)
Rose99,
Time your husband got some legal advice I think, going to pre-panel meetings within the SWD is he aware he can take a friend along to offer him support, the same friend can go along to the panel meeting as well. Depending on the childrens age, they to can have a befriender with them for support at meetings, children also have a right to complain, Social services hold the required form. Your husband may also wish to ask for a copy of all minutes of meetings he attends. Parents have significant rights under the law:
* to determine where a child should live, who can have contact with the child and other issues affecting the child's welfare.
* where there are child protection concerns and social services get involved. For example, if a child protection case conference is called, the parents have a right for their views to be heard at such a conference.
* if the courts are involved under the Children Act or Adoption Act. Only courts can remove the most fundamental legal rights of a parent, such as parental responsibility, where the child should live and parents' right to see the child.
Sexual assault, bodily harm and cruelty - that's a paddlin'
Syntax, you are a complete eejit. As a member of a children's panel i can assure you that we DO have legal authority and powers and we DO use them. If you can read properly you will see that nearly 40,000 children are in the hearings system as they are being abused, neglected or are at risk. Tell me that you have a better solution for getting these children the help, support or the appropriate action required...we volunteer (and give up a lot of time for training etc) as we care about children. No doubt you'd be the first on here if there was a baby/young child left with a drug abusing parent who came to harm due to neglect and nothing was done about it. Well WE are doing something about it, what are you doing? Yes there are some (read again - they are in the minotity) who are on offence grounds, but being a 'big man' and using violence against them is not exactly the intelligent solution is it? You may want to turn a blind eye, but some of us have a conscience.
comments of PANEL GUYI have attended many panels and the members have no authority to make descions only to refer to sheriff court, all they do is read a report and some being blown out of proportion ie 17stone 6ft 1in officer assaulted by 11 year old 6 stone weakling (panel) very serious offence. cant some of you realise that many reports sent in by the police have no evidence nothing to corroborate and on their part its the usuall suspect and all I say educate instead of inncarcerate experienced visitor
30TH NOVEMBER 2007
HOOTSMAN BOYCOTT DAY
AM2 WILL HAVE NOBODY TO TALK TO!!! YAY!!
reply to roseI completely agree with you some swd employeesare completelty two faced and if you have there names should report them I had the experience of one when I recieved information in a letter that she was suggesting my son go to residential and yet telling me a different story
The only way to deal with the wee neds and thugs is to birch them, preferably in public stocks. If they do it again, then use the cat o' nine tails, and gaol the parents too. Then bring back borstals.
The borstals can be built using convicts from our allegedly overcrowded prisons. The overcrowding there can be cured by transporting all violent offenders, drug dealers and perverts to South Georgia.
The way to ensure this gets done, is to change the law to allow wee neds and thugs to be sentenced to a term in the houses of some of the bleeding hearts, trendy lefties and tree huggers.
Most homes tend to be 'average' rather than 'good or 'bad'. How 'good' is yours?
14 panel guy - I'm with you.
15 rbnr - a bit over-simplified but, yes, children from 'bad' homes are facing an uphill struggle. How are they to learn what 'right and wrong' or 'good and bad' are?It's not fair to condemn them - but who is going to take responsibility for making a difference for the better in their lives, and thus in ours?
I have a sneaking suspicion that 'beating up', bullying and violence are still a self-perpetuating, downhill, vicious spiral. As a society, do we still not have the wit and humanity to catch them while they're young, and give them enough love and care to make a difference? Evidently not.
13 NB - "a 'paddlin' "?? Hmm - covers a multitude of evils, doesn't it?What proportion of parents have the wisdom, good judgement and self-control to exercise discipline in a helpful manner?On the other hand, what proportion of parents exercise any discipline at all?
We need a license to drive etc. Maybe we ought to have a license to become a parent?
Django, no idea where you have your information from nor in what capacity you attended hearings. In some instances cases are initially referred to the sheriff for proof, usually where the child is too young to understand the grounds as to why they are in the Hearing system (i.e lack of care issues) and once grounds established, returned to the Hearing system, but the vast majority are dealt with by placing a child on a Supervision Requirement, either home based OR with conditions of residence elsewhere. We also issue Place of Safety Warrants, as well as recommending secure. What exactly would you prefer for a child who is in the same house as a known sex offender....that we leave them there?...that we rely purely on social work departments who may be resource driven rather than care driven?...We have no motive other than that of the welfare of the child, and if that means going against what social work departments recommend then that is what we are duty bound to do. If you are unsure of the Hearing Systems powers, why not try looking at their website.
The problem here seems to be about the lumping together of violent offenders and at risk children in the same category. Seen it from both sides:
The local yobs taking over our garden (meaning my children couldn't use it), throwing things at our family and dog, shouting abuse, vandalising everything in sight, and the police only taking an interest when I noted they were leaving cans and bottles in the garden. Suddenly it was serious: because the poor wee lambs were putting themselves in danger from alcohol. Our family - and people in the street also having metal poles etc thrown at them - really counted for nothing, but the idea of these yobs coming to any harm was a real issue for the police!
The other side of this odd categorisation is that there are families put under suspicion of neglect or abuse on completely spurious grounds - the most nebulous of which is the 'emotional abuse' tag. Emotional abuse, like the implication of madness, is unquantifyable so a tremendous wheeze for dodgy public sector workers looking for an excuse to label someone negatively for their own ends - hence this tag is used more and more. It would be interesting to know more about the breakdown of the figures, and how many families have been accused of this.
A year or so ago I watched in horror then disbelief as this tag was used on a friend by corrupt deceitful social workers (with the complicity of the cops), when my friend complained of the genuine abuse of her child by her ex partner (who may or may not be a mason, v friendly with the cops - and certainly Mr Teflon). This turned into a vindictive little power game to keep control over someone who might otherwise have been in a position to complain loudly about discriminatory behaviour by those in the public sector charged with child protection but more than happy to look the other way. Once accused (what proof, the word of a couple of dodgy social workers?) the victim of this allegation lost all credibility an
Like # 14 I was also a panel member (6 years) and concur with much of what he/she says. I also agree with the sentiments expressed by # 15. It is the parents, from all sections of society, who are the most important role models for their children. I was frequently amazed by the large number of problem parents many of the kids coming before the panel had (eg serial criminals, alcoholics, drug addicts, child abusers; some very violent tendencies). Most of the problems then (1980s)were to do with non-attendance at school. The reason was often that they were having to look after often sad and unfortunate, but thoroughly incompetent, self obsessed parents who were unable to give them to the care and attention that all children need. What surprised me most was that, given the problem parents they had and the multiple deprivations they suffered, they didn't commit much worse offences than they did.
What many of the posts here seem to forget is that the Panel's terms of reference cover not only child offenders but also children who have been offended against, many of whom, as the article indicates, have been physically and sexually abused. I don't see here much condemnation of the adult perpetrators of such offences
There is no doubt that there are some really difficult children causing misery to many, and the system should deal with them appropriately, but it requires an attempt at a deeper understanding of the whole problem rather than a knee jerk reaction, or over-reaction.
#20 Actually it's just a quotation from Jasper in the Simpsons.
I have only two questions for those members of the panel who don't think they give bad parents too many chances. Would they be happy to have THEIR CHILDREN living in similar circumstances or being raised by such people? If they would remove THEIR CHILDREN right away, why should other children not be?
Idiots and neds exist everywhere -in every society however the decreasing morality and lack of responsibility evidenced by the courts ,law , and a growing number of parents in Scotland is a major consideration for immigration .These are people we need to rebuild Scotland not to sit in a place where they can reminisce on the glories of the past ,true or not,which gets more attractive by each passing year
These little thugs are rewarded with foreign holidays for being bad whilst hard working kids like mine get nothing. I can't afford to take my kids abroad as I am paying for these little sods through my tax 'donations'Where is this society going? Penalise the good kids and reward the thugs. It's a topsy turvey world.
There is an adage that the apple does not fall far from the tree.
Many of these feral children come from deplorable living situations where the parents are drunks, drug-users, petty or major thieves, con artists, prostitutes, adulterers, "swingers", wife and husband swappers, etc., etc.
Is it reasonable to expect a child or youth to become a model adult citizen when their background is so deficient and appalling?
And STOP picking on Charles Linskaill. He has a right to his opinion, as we all do, and if you disagree with him then couch your comments in a reasoned and calm manner and don't fling insults and demeaning words about. It is counter-productive.
Yes indeed there are wild children, and there are also bad parents. But both of these groups have always prevailed in our society. The difference now is the lack of discipline in the home and in society in general. Many homes lack a strong father figure and others have no parental guidance at all. But in my opinion and I don't mind telling you this from a personal point of view. There is an over reaction by many social workers who see themselves as a master race who use the legal system to promote the ideal of this ever increasing nanny state. They are indeed a major contradiction. As they do not appear very social and do little worthwhile work.
#28 You missed TV watchers from your list of miscreants.The problem for a lot of kids is they are brought up by imbecilic Children's television and English media soap operas, not parents.In some instances that may be a blessing but on average it hasn't done a lot for society. When we coach your population to behave like the characters in Eastenders and the like what should we expect.
Your surprised, No, me niether.
This is the chickens coming home to roost, weve been to leinient on young adults for too long, these ill educated young adults go on to produce even worse offspring, care little for what they do, and the cycle goes on increasing. Im not saying bring back the birch or anything of that sort, but our social policing in the last 20 years has been appalling. Kids get into trouble parents should be made to pay. Why should my children be scared to go to the fair because the idiot down the street has brought up a couple of thugs and is proud of it. Im sorry if I could wave a magic wand and give every child in scotland a loving home and caring responsible parents I would. But now old and young alike are scared to walk their own streets, Free society perhaps in the areas of Kelvinside, most of us feel like we are being punished because of the neighbours we are getting.
Time to get tough, I know its not perfect or fair but I want the lives of my friends, family and fellow scots to be free of fear, aggression and intimidation. Time to turn up the heat, the liberal system has had 20 years to effect a change, IT AINT WORKING
"28. Tim Hi, thankyou for your words, my comment was NOT on the article its self, it was a response to #1,2 as for the other negative comments, its a case of 'little they know', as I am in constant touch with childrens issues, so its them that dont know a 'Child from a football' that should "grow up" You cant 'tar' every child, with the 'same brush' otherwise we would have, 'NO TOMORROW', As for the 'inner city' housing estates? 'suprise suprise' I live in one!!
As a parent I feel continually discouraged by the insistence of what seems like darn near everybody that I should not be looking out for my children, sticking my nose into the schools' business, generally keeping track of what my kids are doing, or otherwise actively caring for my children. Parents need to hear that there is a reason they must bother about doing a good job. Most people I know have given up in favor of making more money, or enjoying more alcohol and sex, and not having to confront challenges like telling their teenagers "no". I believe that for some parents just hearing about it isn't sufficient anymore, and now we have to make parents pay for their negligence. It won't happen voluntarily with parents who have been encouraged for too long to just let the system take care of raising their children for them.
Perhaps if kids got the appropriate punishment for their deeds they'd think twice before they inflicted bad behavior on others.This will always be a problem if these kids don't have responsible adults to look up to.
#28 yep the apple sure doesn't fall far from the tree.
Charles, what world do you live in? there are children out there I would prevent from breeding and I would do it by putting them down NOW!!
#1. . . . . Well said, I agree wholeheartedly with every single word. Something now has got to give as we cannot let things carry on this way. Children need discipline and they need to be SCARED to do any wrong. As long as they see that they have RIGHTS (an effing joke in my opinion) nothing will change. However, the damage is now done by all the dogooders that we can't really change it all back, can we? Bring back the belt in schools and all ow teachers to give some little upstart a clip around the ear if need be. I also think women should not be allowed to give birth if they can't afford to give up their job to look after their children full time. I gave up work to have my two girls and I am so proud of the way they behave plus I have a husband. I think you really cannot beat a two-parent family that stays together.
#36. cazza,It IS an offence to drop litter in the street and not pick it up after you!....You said,"#1. . . . . Well said, I agree wholeheartedly with every single word."...1. syntax said,"Next time you catch a kid committing and offence, take him into a dark corner and give him a good hiding !!!!! Make sure there are no witnesses !!!!!".....Let us hope, you dont have to 'eat what you say' as it in being any Child of yours!!
35. Sanity is relative,"Charles, what world do you live in?"ANSWER...... THE REAL ONE!!..Why not just 'get rid' of all our Children now?? Did you learn 'Nothing' from history on Hitler?Or are you another one that 'tars' every Child the same?
Is this article not ample proof that the Children's Hearing system is an unmitigated flop. So soft it actually encourages juvenile offending.
#37 - Dear Charles, what on Earth are you on about? Why do you talk about dropping litter in the street? I said nothing about litter dropping......however, I do agree with you about giving a kid a good hiding - it's not something I would personally do as I am not that way inclined. I could understand someone doing that who has suffered at the hands of some of these brats but you only have to look at the headlines to see some poor guy that has taken them on and lost his life. So I take back my "wholehearted agreement of every single word" written by #1 and say I agree with most of it. Also, I don't really need to worry about that happening to one of my darling daughters as they are, like me, not given to being violent, destructive or disrespectful.
~40. cazza, Fair point its the way you came across!Everyone seems to be saying that 'ALL' our Children, need 'put-down' or 'thrashed', no matter what they have done wrong!Its unfair and 'blatantly' MENTAL to assume this!!!The 'synopsis' from most comments, is every child you see is a 'thug' and you should 'beat them up' or worse still, 'put them all down' as some say on here!I have had two Children (girls) one now a teacher, one now a Dentist!'HOW DARE' People come on here and call all our Children, 'Scum of the Earth'!!Granted, we have a problem with some, it give us,
NO, 'GOD-Ridden-Rights', to condemn them all!!!... Thankyou, for the feedback ~40. cazza, I know now you, don't think the above,Even our worst behaved Children have, 'Good in Them', If given the chance, some may never learn, 'granted', but lets NOT generalise.!!
