How interesting Hootsman! No comments allowed on the Council Tax announcement or the Commonwealth Games but comments allowed on this load of old tosh. Oh well as usual the obnoxious unionist commentators will be well chuffed. Re the Council Tax announcement well done John Swinney a great deal for Scotland as usual and yet more proof of a Scottish Government doing what it should do i.e. look after the Scots not like the monkeys with red rosettes who can't blow their noses without permission from London. Re the Commonwealth Games well done Alex Salmond for promoting Glasgow's bid - again no hidden agendas just looking after Scotland's best interests. Anyone (and their were some hate filled comments yesterday) who doesn't believe that he is doing the right thing for Scotland should move somewhere else where their attitudes might fit in better - perhaps outer Mongolia (with apologies to the outer Mongolians).

Labour have had ten years to address the challenges and opportunities posed by globalisation and they've failed miserably.

"BREAKING up the UK would risk Scotland's place in a new world order, Alistair( I'm on another planet) Darling, the Chancellor, said last night."

New World Order !!!!!!!!!!!

The fascists are here, lets get out quick.

Oh the unionists are scared, very scared, what will they do if they can no longer steal our resources, plunder our taxes and our trade?

Poor wee english parliament, there, there.

Independence is imperative.

If there is constitutional conflict between North and South, it would be down to Mr Darlings' party.

Really it is like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted to be posturing at this stage.

I'm from South West Embra and he certainly doesn't represent me. Ok dahling. New World Order doesn't mean bushey eyebrows for everyone and a different coloured barnet, does it:-0

#5 you don't give up, I respect your doggedness. The point you are making is all well and good, the conclusion is mental. The fact is that devolution started to allow Scotland wiggle room and that's what is transforming things and that wiggle is morphing into a Scottish Salsa and that in turn transforms the economy.

Independence is on the back burner, but events dear boy conspire against your Union;^)

"Giving the Andrew Willi-amson (what an unusual double barreled name) lecture at Stirling University last night, Mr Darling said the Union was key to survival in the global economy."

What he means is: Scotland is the key to the survival of the union in the global economy.

Darling: ""Go to India and China - these economies are growing every year."

Whereas Scotland's economic growth is being held back to preserve the union. An independent Scotland would be the third richest country in Europe. The union as it stands comes in about eighth richest. This means that if Scotland leaves the union England will slip down to about twelfth.

Darling: " "I believe Scotland and England are far better off together than apart - especially when, all over the world, new opportunities are arising which we can seize if we have the will to."

But to do this we need Scotland's mineral resources.

"In the first keynote speech on the independence issue Mr Darling has made since becoming Chancellor, he said Scotland must move on from the debate over the constitution."

As having this debate is very frightening for Westminster MPs, who may soon find themselves redundant.

"The Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats are currently working together to find ways to strengthen devolution within the Union."

This would be the anti Scottish three-party alliance working together for political self preservation.

Currently Scotland has the same 'voice' as Yorkshire.

Only independence can give Scotland it's own voice -which will no doubt say,'No wars ,please'

Breaking up the UK means just that: a break up.

And possible emergence of civilisation.

There are plenty of positive reasons to stay in the Union. The labour government should cheer up. =;D

Many of Scotlands current industries are truly global. Oil, whisky, finance education, medicine etc

Can the same be said of England? Defintiely not. Without us the English cannot feed, water or produce enough energy to be enterprising. Without us England becomes a third world nation.

#13 I can't think of even one positive reason to stay in this archaic and anachronistic union. But I can think of thousands of reasons not to.

Scotland shall thrive and prosper absent english oppression,as is beginning to happen now.english should be seen as a none too competent competitor same as most other countries see them.darling profound mistake was 2 fold: he showed up then he opened his silly mouth.Same old english lies same old way.Outright manure and half truths don't work if the muskets aren't pointed at the propaganda target.It would seem english is short a loaf.Scotland need only vote them out as we shall see.

INDEPENDENCE NOW & FOREVER

Slovakia has broken free and now actively participating in world economy. Scotland should go for it, follow Slovak example.

Scottish Independence does NOT mean we can't work with England on several issues, including facing up to the economic challenges of the future!

Indeed, #18, indeed - as it should be - working together as equal partners, as sovereign states, as the Gods intended.

#14 lols sheila, keep taking the pills otherwise reality might kick in

T Macintosh - Darling is Scottish, keep up

#15 Spot on Guga

Darling is a Charlie. He also said the London Olympics would benefit Scotland

He also said they would benefit London !

Risking Scotland's place in the "new world order" is perhaps the best reason I can think of to get out and stand on our own two feet. The scaremongering by those in power, wanting to hold onto their expanded powerbase, is transparent. China is the coming power of this century, and the idea that Scotland can somehow "stand up to China" if part of a minuscule union with England is laughable.

The Union IS a good thing........for england, why? Because it holds the real power over Scotland, that is why we must break free to reach Scotlands full potential.
AM2, At the end of the day, if a country can't even control things like corporation tax, it's got no chance to grow. And Scotland has been dying slowy for a long time now. It's a pity that most Scots don't seem to see that.
It's time!!!....well it was about a hundred years ago.

Now what could the new world order be? Orwell's Oceania, waging endless wars against the faceless masses of the east? American style flag waving and God's own country? Re independence, you don't think that the English will let the Scottish oil go, not after they started a war to get at the oil in Iraq?

Give my country Independence now, enough of this farce

Alas poor Union, we knew it (too well).
AM2, the fellow, an infinite pest, of most excellent fancy cut'n'paste. He hath bored us rigid a
thousand times, and now how abhorr'd in our imagination he is!
My gorge rises at it.

Thanks for the idea Donald #24.

Now all of you ... sing after me ...

Darling is a Charlie
A Charlie, A Charlie
Darling is a Charlie
A cr*p Chancellor!

AM2 ... go stand in a corner for not joining in with the rest of your peers!

#31 gawd, can we lay this to rest that it was the English who went into Iraq ? I recall it was a UK govt led and helmed by Scots. Yes, Scots. Cease the denial it was a Scottish led UK govt that took us to war.

Of course what Alastair Darling really means is "when Scotland regains her independence, Labour will be stuffed in Westminster, unlikely ever to form another government".

Better get used to it, Mr Chancellor, cos it's going to happen!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXqj9epGEas this is about the new world order.

#8 There is a big difference between devolution and independence.
Considering that of the 5 million Scots who are of working age, more than half work for local or national government and a large number of the other half don't work for one reason or another, who will create the wealth needed to run an independent country?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo This site tells you about the New world order and The North American Union its worth lookin at

lol well he would say that wouldn't he.

What's the Scottish word.. is it numptae?

This is a boring thread not even a third of Scots favour Independence it aint going to happen. Indpendence occurs not through economic arguements but when an overwhelming majority in acountry want self determination. Most Scots are quite comfy with the status quo. As for all the English war threads i know lots of Scottish service personnel and none of them hold that opinion.

If Darling believes what he says he is an idiot, if he doesn't he is a liar. The Republic of Ireland would be better in the Union? No, that mere fact alone shows Darling for the treacherous scum that he and his like are. One fine day this nation will gain its freedom and we can get out the executioners - we will need a lot.

... I grow weary of the allegation that Westminster is led by Scots.

The Scots MPs in Westminster are all Labour toadies looking for their main chance - to advance themselves by adhering to the edict of their party. Once there, they are overwhelmed by the opportunity to prance on the world stage, something that they couldn't do as easily if Scotland was independent.

They do not represent Scottish interests AT ALL - we would have noticed otherwise! At least Brown, in his bid for accpetance by the English, is frank in his stance.

As for Tony Blair, who allowed Bush to suck us into Iraq - just because he was born in Edinburgh and educated at Fettes College, that doesn't mean to say that he sees himself as a Scot any more than he sees himself as English - he is an opportunist who represented only himself when he was in parliament and seeks a prosperous future in the good old US of A.

Sorry - I forgot that some of the Scots MPs in Westminster are LibDem. Much the same thing but without the discipline.

AM2 5 and 12

What difference does it make to Scotland whether we florish within the Union or not when the benefits of that florish end up in London and we get the Barnett formula instead? isnt the Barnett formula managed in such a way as to give us only what we need no more or less? so where is the benefit for Scotland in having a florishing economy that fills the coffers of Westminster??

5 AM2

Of course AM forgot to conclude his statement by including the fact that the GDP and growth in the Economy was achieved in spite of the mismanagement of Scotland by the London Controlled Numptie Parties.

He also forgot to clarify that the biggest increase in GDP was credited to the SNP Scottish Governments achievements in lifting the confidence. Lets just have a look at the next 6 months figures to see how well they stand up to a full year of the new governments strategies.

Its time this censor of open discussions is shunned as nothing more than a paid leech of the Unionist cause.

Yes Independance will be coming and Alistair Darling will feel the rath of the Scottish People when his boss the Bottler Broon grows a spine. Lets see how Darling and the other London Centric traitors go when they are no more than former pollies who cannot be elected to their first love that is Westminster unless they follow the failed Scottish Tories by moving to their true homeland, if London qualifies as a country by then.

The fascist New World order is commited to creating a class society that makes beggars of the average person, who have absolutely no choice on whether they and their family may be starved to death on a basis of whether your location is deemed overcrowded and needs a cull. Of course the New Rich and the political classes will survive very well.

Perhaps we should tell the Faroe islands, Iceland, Greenland, Norway to join England as they are in danger from a new world order or something. Perhaps we should warn the small Baltic states to rejoin with Russia as they are exposed. Perhaps we should warn Monaca, Luxemburg, Andorra, and Lichtenstein they are going to go down the tubes. Perhaps we should tell Belgium to join up with France and Holland this will solve all their woes—or will it.
I think the only thing to beware of is tumchies

A strong economic European Union is the only way the UK or an Independent Scotland will continue to be a force in the global economy. Within that Union
as much political power as possible should be devolved to the member states including Scotland.

All of which means the UK Union is obsolete.

45

Its only rarely that we see Scots at the top. Obviously too many people are either forgetting or ignoring the Thatcher years or the Wilson years or the Heath years etc etc etc. For every Scot that made it to the top there are 10 English persons plus that made it also and none of them either Scot or English ever put Scotland top of their agendas. Only under the threat of Independence has any interest at all been shown to Scotland and any and all concessions comming our way only came about because of the threat the SNP posed to Westminster.
Think about that and ignore the bulls*** and unionist propaganda prevelant on these blogs.

I don't think Darlings speech seems likely to convince anybody of anything. I do wish though that the Scottish and English nationalists would grow up, realise that we live on a very small island and carving it up make neither economic or common sense. This obsession with narrow nationalistic goals does nobody any favours. It is a sideshow and distraction and I really wish David Cameron and Alex Salmond would try to focus on something else.

I will read [and perhaps remark on] comment carrying a time stamp of 0900hrs onwards.

I'm a bit concerned that we have a man in charge of macroeconomic policy that doesn't seem to grasp that, as a result of being in the EU, a member state's products and services are open to a huge market, no matter the size of that country. It's the quality and competitiveness that counts. It's a shame that, thanks to his party, we have become a nation of State dependents and numpties, not of innovators and entrepreneurs.

"Andrew Willi-amson"

Why the hyphen?

GLOBAL LEADER...IN WHAT ?....bad housing,poor health,low educational standards,short life expectancy.....we need policies that are beneficila for the Scots ,not pipedreams of a 'place in the world' while people at home suffer.

Between Darling and his 'new world order' and Maggie Broon and his 'British jobs for British people' I'm wondering if Enoch Powell is really gone....

How can any nation prosper under a financial formula calculated to give it only what its supposed to need and that need being determined by another country?
For a nation to prosper it has to acquire a sustained growth how is that even possible under the Barnett formula when any profit from any growth goes to Westminster and we get the same amount back calculated from a fixed formula?
Is this really the way to run a country?

Me thinks Labour (and the rest) are running a wee bit scared)
don't worry Mr Darling; i am sure the first minister will produce a formula similar to the Barnet formula to ensure we ensure England does not slide into abject poverty once we control Oil Revenues, fishing revenues; and many other natural resources.

you are probably worry over nothing, but thanks for convincing another swathe of Scots that Independence is the way to go forward for Scotland.

1 somerferg, oz

" Anyone who doesn't believe that he is doing the right thing for Scotland should move somewhere else where their attitudes might fit in better - perhaps outer Mongolia (with apologies to the outer Mongolians) ".

I as a native Scot who has stayed on in this country and helped its economy ( even in a small way), take great exception to you telling me and thousands of others that we should move because we do not share your political beliefs.
I imagine you call yourself a democrat as well ?
Wow !!

Why did you move ?
I might add I have visited Oz and thirty other countries , in the course of my work, on many occasions and would still rather live in Scotland !!!

Reading your post again , methinks a village somewhere may have lost its idiot

P.S.
"How interesting Hootsman! No comments allowed on the Council Tax announcement or the Commonwealth Games but comments allowed on this load of old tosh."

You must get a different version" Down Under " !

Plenty of comments posted if you take a look

Would'nt pay too much arrention to Darling, come the next election both he an Brown will be consigned to the dustbin of history, he should be concentrating on reversing the con trick revealed by Broon in his last budget viz. doubling the tax on the first £2000 of taxable income which will have a greater effect on pensioners on a modest income rather than those on £30000 PLUS.

Someone should inform Darling that this kind of claim is old hat.

All we need to do is look at Norway, Ireland, Iceland, Belgium, Holland, Switzeraldn (take you pick), and ask "But why don't they need a union to connect them to the global economy."

Of course, they don't. And, what's more, it is perfectly obvious that, in being without absurd restraints imposed upon their sovereignty, they are able to flourish in ways that Scotland within the union can only dream of.

The union is a constraint on Scotland's ability to act. Anyone can (or should be able to) see that.

Unless, of course, they are desperately seeking to further their own career or look after their party's interests like Darling is.

#63/64

Shame only a third of the population can see that though. It must be difficult being so much more intelligent than non rabid Independence supporters.

I'm sure AM2 means well but the Office for National Statistics reported today that the goods trade deficit reached £7.754bn in September compared with £6.948bn in August.

The trade gap with non-EU nations also hit a record at £4.711bn from £3.953bn.

It is inevitable therefore that seeing that this country continues to fail to invest adequately in our own productive capacity and therefore underutilises our own engineering and scientific talent that there will be a rise in inward investment and in R&D projects.

This is not something to be proud of but something to be extremely concerned about. In a global economy we cannot continue to underpin our competition using talent we should be using it ourselves.

Measuring Scottish growth against other regions of the UK is of course irrelevant and pointless. We don't compete with them. We compete with Europe and elsewhere. Unfortunately, the World Economic Forum shows the UK plunging from 2nd position last year to 9th today.

The UK was praised for its sophisticated financial markets but criticised for “public sector deficits and rising levels of public indebtedness, spending today instead of saving in order to meet tomorrow’s burgeoning liabilities”.

The WEF says The US gets its leadership position through a winning combination of highly sophisticated and innovative companies that lead the world in research and development and operate in very efficient and large markets. This is buttressed by an excellent university system that works closely with business, a very flexible labour market, a unique ability to attract talent and a financial sector that supplies the needed capital for risky innovation ventures. These strengths allow the US to overcome weaknesses related to its macroeconomic imbalances.

The latter of course includes their trade deficit.

• Scotland was second to London and SE England last year for inward investment, and in fact equall

Can any unionist drone out there explain how Scotland or any other country for that matter is supposed to prosper under a politically allocated financial formula as opposed to generating and living under their own incomes?

Mr Darling is an irrevalence to the vast majority of Scots, unfortunately he still has sway over our finances. Once removed this so called new world order myth can be exposed as such and world trade can become free for all.

#67 The Bruce2

We'll never know until it changes. But Scotland could have complete fiscal autonomy from England and still remain part of the Union. A truly federal country with Westminster only responsible for defence and foreign affairs. The Scottish exchequer would contribute our share towards that, for everything else, England and the other nations would raise and spend their own dosh, we ours. The links between the four constituent nations are more than just fiscal.

Sorry... was so annoyed by AM2's economic claptrap I inadvertantly included his four bullet points..

"I believe it would be a profound mistake to spend the next four years in constitutional conflict north and south of the Border, when we need to meet the economic challenges we face," he said.

And I agree. Why wait four years for independence. It's coming anyway.

#69

"with Westminster only responsible for defence and foreign affairs."

Totally unacceptable. We want no nuclear weapons and no more illegal invasions. We can handle our own foreign affairs much better than those Whitehall bunglers.

Like we're gonna listen to Broon's bitch!

Never trust a man with black bushy eyebrows and silver hair -there's jist something no right aboot that configuration!

#72 as long as you dont have a crew from Scotland like the ones currently running the UK

Stewart Hosie, the SNP's treasury spokesman at Westminster, said:
"Alistair Darling's assertion that Scotland is better off as part of the Union flies in the face of the facts.
"Research published by the Scottish Government shows that, with our fair share of North Sea resources, Scotland would be the third-wealthiest nation in the European Union."

Well, good for you if you’ve convinced yourself of that, Mr Hosie! This subject is a veritable quagmire of arguments about the division of oil and gas resources between Scotland and England etc. What is clear is that by no means as much oil and gas revenue would come to Scotland as the Tartan Taliban like to make out. Sorry, but the people of Scotland just aren’t gullible enough to take what you say at face value, Mr Hosie! Why do you think that support for independence persistently hovers at round abouth the 23% mark? Give it a rest and change the record, man!

Sometimes I wonder why I left. Not very often though.

I remember Alistair Darling as a fellow student at Aberdeen University.
This was in the 1970s, when the Kilbrandon report was published, the Other One locked away for 30 years, and the time when North Sea oil extraction (after the '73 OPEC price hike) began to look not only feasible but highly profitable, long term. I wonder if we were living and studying in parallel universes...?
Didn't he know back then that Scotland had its own, excellent education system? Didn't he know that Scotland had already been 'globalizing' for several generations? Some called it emigration: exporting doctors, educators, bankers, engineers, and so on?
But then, maybe he came from that private-schooled Edinburgh microcosm, which prepares so well for Westminster.
Nevertheless, if he is indeed an able man, we should welcome him back to work for Scotland after independence.
Thanks to my studies at Aberdeen plus 30 years' experience since, I haven't made a wrong political prediction since the 1970s - including the present Scottish Government. And long-deserved independence.

Where has Alistair Darling been these last 20 years or so? The World Trade Organisation (WTO) is the governing body for the global economy. It is not just Scotland that is not directly represented there, but also the United Kingdom, because all members of the European Union are represented in the WTO by the EU Commission, which puts forward a single case for all the member countries irrespective of iindividual variations of interests. The likes of Norway, on the other hand, has its own voice in the WTO. That would be the position of an independent Scotland - unless the SNP's lunatic policy of EU membership were to be realised.

#78 Dr K G

How was his breath? I went to see Alistair Darling as my MP years ago. He wouldn't answer my question (hasn't changed) and he had bad breath. Hopefully that has changed.

Is Mr Darling a Scottish person?

Is Mrs Brown one too?

If Scottishland was independent they would lose thir fancy jobs in London, they would have to put up with being in Edinburgh full time, it is evident that wouldn't be too happy with that, why? Is it such a dour place? Is it as bad as Gwynedd in Wales? Are the nationalists so blinded with the prospect of power that common sense goes out the window, assuming there is any in the first place of course.

69

What do you mean we will never know? do the sums for yersel. The funding for the Barnett formula comes mostly from NS oil revenue.
Why do you think it was implemented just after NS oil was exploited?

The Master," Why do you think that support for independence persistently hovers at round abouth the 23% mark?" Maybe it's because the Scots have had it f@cked into their heads, for a very long time, that they're just too stupid to run their own country.

I remember years ago that this English lad in an Aberdeen branch of the Halifax, (he was giving me imfo on a mortage) told me that if Scotland went Independant it would be a third world country OVERNIGHT!!!
Well I guess some people would believe him, but I sure as hell would'nt.

#69 The Bruce2

It's all statistics. They can be made to say anything. Maybe we DO get subsidised by the English through the Barnett Formula. Who can really tell, until we get full fiscal autonomy.

#82 Evan

I may be wrong (and can't really be ersed Googling) but I seem to recall that Darling was actually born in London.

82. Evan Owen, Upper Gumtree / 12:38pm 9 Nov 2007
Is Mr Darling a Scottish person?
Is Mrs Brown one too?
If Scottishland was independent they would lose thir fancy jobs in London, they would have to put up with being in Edinburgh full time, it is evident that wouldn't be too happy with that, why? Is it such a dour place? Is it as bad as Gwynedd in Wales? Are the nationalists so blinded with the prospect of power that common sense goes out the window, assuming there is any in the first place of course.

What about the demagogue Salmond? Isn’t he the only politician who currently has a dual Westminster/Holyrood mandate? Why was he so keen to stay in London before his almost messianic return to Scotland as FM? Why is he immune from criticism of politicians who just love Wesminster? Come to that, it is quite common for Scots of working age to spend a considerable amount of time in London for business reasons but to maintain a home in Scotland. Why take it out on politicians, just because they don’t support the SNP’s increasingly untenable and ludicrous independence agenda?

By the way, even you Nutty Nats have probably twigged by now that rumours of my demise on the RBS thread were greatly exaggerated last night! Like my Dr Who namesake, I always manage to resurrect myself. This just shows that none of the Tartan Taliban supporters' predictions ever come true!

#87 The Master: just how low can you sink? Now you’re boasting about the fact that you weren’t deleted for taking a pick axe to the moderation rules last night! You are well named with your Dr Who moniker: you are evil personified!

75. The Master

"What is clear is that by no means as much oil and gas revenue would come to Scotland as the Tartan Taliban like to make out."

95% of the oil is in Scottish territorial waters, that is established under International Law. Revenue goes to an Independent Scotland, not too complicated.

" Why do you think that support for independence persistently hovers at round about the 23% mark? "

The actual figure of support for Independence will be established in a referendum.
At present Unionists are against a referendum.

It's a strange logic really not supporting a referendum, after all with your figures that only 23% of Scots support Independence, you would think that Unionists would be breaking their necks trying to establish a referendum as soon as possible.

Of course logic may not be one of your strong points.
After all, you are someone who had Thomas Hardy and Keir Hardie figuring in the contemporary political scene....! ! ?
Presumably the 'appearance' of the latter in Scottish politics must have influenced you into thinking that somehow the Union has a future.
Such is your belief in the power of resurrection !

If Sweden can be a prosperous country then why cannae oor Scotland be independent,
Its time for independence wee need a referendum.
Why not have it after wee beat those greasy pasta munchers, then wee would have freedom fae the brittish.

The Master (Bater) sorry could'nt help it.
Anyway Darling and Broon? I really don't care about.
What I care about is Scotland getting off it's knees, and the only way to do that is through independance. As for Slamond he is not important, Scotland is changing and for the better. It's time England did, and stopped their whinging.

The big difference between Darling 30 years ago and those that he was lecturing is that he had a FREE university education.

89. European Scot / 1:20pm 9 Nov 2007

Didn’t I hear that most of the really valuable gas fields were located just off Newcastle? I know that the Geordies are jocks with their brains knocked out, but…In any event, whatever the share which would eventually go to Scotland after protracted negotiation, evidence as to the median line of the oil and gas fields and other no doubt excruciatingly complicated legal arguments, the fact remains that oil is a finite resource: that much is beyond dispute, even to ultra Nats!

I’m more than happy to enlighten you as to why unionists are against a referendum: it’s because it would shoot Salmond’s fox for him! What I am trying to whisper to you is that, without the deadweight of the unpopular independence agenda, the SNP might well go from strength to strength (not that I’m implying that their other undeliverable promises and bribes have any credibility whatsoever, so don’t tar me with that brush!)

The other reason for opposing a referendum is that no-one’s really all that interested except the Nats, and there’s always the possibility that any result would be skewed as a result of a low turnout! I am on good form today – I’ve found a new life since my resurrection! (I just hope that the poor old spook in leith can find it in his heart to forgive me for my perhaps intemperate harassing of him!) By the way, I am at a loss as to why certain posters considered that I may be jealous of him when we had our little spat on the RBS thread last night and I threatened to have him sacked from his bank for misusing the internet during office hours! The mere fact that he can’t afford anywhere better than Leith whereas I possess flats in good areas of both Edinburgh and Glasgow, in addition to other property, about says it all!

#93 The Master: aha! So we now have enough biographical detail to know that you are a typical toffee unionist snob who looks down on someone such as the poor old spook in leith merely because he lives on the wrong side of town! I notice that you give no details as to your employment situation though: no doubt you fear that the Spook or one of his accomplishments will give you a taste of your own medicine and try to use this against you!

It sounds to me like England is worried . If Scotland leaves her side , who will fight her wars ? Did you know the largest oil reserve in the UK is off Barra Head capped by Esso in mid 70s. Salmond has to get some cahoonies. EG: Balls
and PRINT some Scottish Passports. and build the New
Scottish Republic Today.

Note: And paperboy if you don't post this I will post it in every post on the globe and it will look like your paper belongs in tenimen square .

The Barnett formula

HOW DOES IT WORK?4
This formula … provides that, in settling new plans for public expenditure, Scotland and
Wales should receive a share of the planned cash changes in provision for equivalent public
services in England which is proportionate to their population. In other words, Scotland's and
Wales' shares of changes in relevant planned spending in England are the same proportions
as their populations represent of England's population. The formula applies only to changes
in spending plans, not to the underlying baselines which remain unaffected. (HM Treasury,
1999, p.36).
For programmes of expenditure that are comparable between Scotland and
England, English spending departments reach agreement with the Treasury in the
traditional manner (i.e. through departmental negotiation and bargaining). The
Barnett Formula then ensures that Scotland and Wales receive increases in the
same spending areas, on the basis of their population share. Traditionally, for the
Scottish and Welsh Offices, this has meant that they played a minimal role in
negotiations with the Treasury, other than to support the relevant spending
department in England in making their cases.

can somebody please explain to me how Scotland Wales or NI are supposed to prosper under this doctrine?
We give up our entire national assets in exchange for this.
Where is the benefit? anybody!!

95. Raspberry Ripple / 2:08pm 9 Nov 2007

How dare you call me a “typical unionist snob” unless you mean that, like most people of education, I am able to see right through the so called nationalist case (which by the way is hardly given credibility by the support of the odd academic or banker: a few grains of sand don’t make a beach!)

99# Scottish Eve

I THINK, the people of Scotland should demand the independence of the Bank of Scotland from the (evil, and yes they are coming across that way in their phone calls and letters) Halifax.

And they say that the SNP is a modern, social democratic party which has nothing to do with the politics of exclusion and resentment (or am I missing something here?)

A Briton first and then a Scott.Seems simple doesn't it.It is the same view as most of the civilized world ie the European countries and North America.
Why is there more support for Scottish Independence in England (60%) vs Scotland 52%?
Do they know something that we dont?
For all of those who would break up the Union--Go for it but do it by voting constituancies pro or con. Would there not be a change in the map?
This would be democracy in the simplest form would it not?

#100 Caligula: Going by the best available opinion poll evidence, I think that it’s about 23% of the Scottish population that are “missing something”!

#104 The Riddler: you are an absolute disgrace! I’ve had it up to here with the childish mudslinging of you unionist no marks and will have you know that a recent study by Strathclyde University found that only 40% of SNP supporters are actually anti English! This kind of bile does your case no favour whatsoever! In fact, some of you unionists have become so ridiculous that I’m beginning to wonder if a lot of it isn’t cause by Nat trolls trying to discredit you!

#105: ????

What a reliable and honourable scource for such a forecast to emanate from?
Darling has been a total failure in every one of his previous cabinet positions which he only inherited because off belonging to the pre- 1997 cabal set up by the late John Smith MP. There were a hard core of them, and he was one off that core. Along with Blair, Brown and a few more well known, and still prominent in New Labour; he was always amazingly and conveniently absent on important political debates to escape the voting record. His record off attendances of the important debates are freely available and recorded in Hansard.
What were his notable achievements I wonder when
a Lawyer - come - Solicitor before dabbling in the political arena.
I just wonder?

#5 AM2 is right; Scotland has done well under Labour over the last 10 years. Shame when the Tories get back in it'll be business as usual.

I was born in London so I've nothing against the place; but Scotland should control the remainder of the oil profits rather than outsourcing our economy to another country.

#22 Even a wrong vote is better than a no-vote!. I think yer hied is full o wax and the rope should be round yer neck.

18. Boy Wonder / 6:59am 9 Nov 2007

" Scottish Independence does NOT mean we can't work with England on several issues, including facing up to the economic challenges of the future! "

Quite.

Funny to see old world orders and new world orders in attendance here:
http://adam-buxton.com/ad/wp-content/ANEWPOPE2SCRENDER.mp4

My personal favorite, with the institutional, imperial ,unionist death worshipers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5xnznFzLek

# 15 Guga II, Rockall

Its a shame, but actually i can think of 1,000 resons why we should stay in the union and 1,000 reasons why we should just break. I guess that's 2,000 reasons for refrom. Maybe a federal solution is the way to go.

I read a lot of these comments, Guga and AM, seem to be equal and opposite. There's bound to be some middle ground somewhere. Alot of your comments too each other area ctually polite and passiond. A very healthy debate.

40. whatsyourname / 8:55am 9 Nov 2007

The last 20 seconds are vitally important.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo

Amero, Euro ..... Stick it up your ***

Centrally controlled world police state. NO WAY.

Scotland will lead the world out of enslavement.

NEVER FORGET WHO YOU ARE.
NEVER FORGET YOUR TRUE HISTORY.
NEVER FORGET YOUR IDENTITY.

NEVER SELL YOUR LIBERTY FOR ANY PRICE.
NEVER AKNOWLEDGE FACELESS POWER
NEVER ACCEPT ID CARDS

DESTROY YOUR CREDIT CARDS
SET UP CASH TRANSACTIONS AT ALL TIMES
BUY WHAT YOU NEED, NOT WHAT YOU WANT.

IF EVERYBODY SAYS INDEPENDENCE CAN HAPPEN, IT WILL HAPPEN.

FULL INDEPENDENCE WILL HAPPEN,
WHEN IS ONLY THE QUESTION.

109. Scottish Eve

The Halifax ceased to be a building society several years ago. As it is has not been regulated by the Building Societies’ Act for some years, it is in fact a bank. As a building society, it was by far the largest in the sector and, as a bank, it was only marginally smaller than the Bank of Scotland. You say that the Halifax has more prevalence, but isn’t the organisation known as “HBOS” to reflect the contribution of both institutions? The impression may have been created that the Halifax has a higher profile in the revamped organisation because the B of S had very little presence in England prior to the merger. The Halifax by definition is therefore able to exploit its greater profile throughout Britain.

If you’re angered at the trend towards consolidation and rationalisation in the financial sector, then you’re trying to stand against an inevitable trend towards economic globalisation. I’m glad to hear that you completely dissociate yourself from the poisonous grievances which the SNP peddle and apologise without reservation if I mistook you for a Nat.

113. Ard Righ

Sig Heil, mein Fuhrer!

115# Caligula

113. Ard Righ
Sig Heil, mein Fuhrer!

There’s no need for that! You unionists who have so few arguments that you have to resort to Nazi jibes really are scraping the bottom of the barrel! Just look at that poor “Miss” H who had no idea that many outside the SNP see them in that way until she came on to this forum and came across characters such as the Master and kimba. I’ll also have you know that many SNP supporters have their eyes opened when they come on here and learn that their party’s known in some disreputable quarters as “the Tartan Taliban”.

#116 The Riddler: forgive me but, judging by the unadulterated excrement you posted at #104, you are as guilty as anyone else who hates the SNP with abandon, if not more so! This is a classic case of “do as I say but not as I am”!

#117 Caligula: I think the poo I did at #104 will leave a hell of a stink on this board long after someone finally bothers to clean it up!

#118 The Riddler: YOU ARE NAUGHTY BUT I LOVE YOU!

The only people who need the union are the London based political parties and their hangers on. Without the union the Tory party in Scotland will go into oblivion, the Labour party will never again be a political force in England and for the Lib Dems they will jump into bed with any party to offer a ministerial car.

Hey you Lardy Lot, in the Land Without Sun....
Change your Currency to the Euro.......That should attract attention from the the Chinless..Stop importing those Goofy Hats from the Windsor Hat Co'..........Weird and Freaky..Sorry gals it's true,
any Dude tell you other wise, well, best check out his ulterior motive...(You know what I mean)
What happens when the Oil runs out?????????
You could...Sell permits to the Amis..to hunt Haggis..That should bring in a Ton of diminished value green backs$$$
Don't forget to tell em' NO AIR STRIKES ALLOWED.
They are motivated when on the hunt..
Think Thin..Look for SUN!!!!!!!! Shalom

I think I read a book about a new world order that didn't turn out so well. Does anyone really want to take part in this new world order? Remember when things were simple?......

122# The Lib Dems did jump into bed with the Labour party and what for-- ministerial cars.

Labour's new song (as they bask in the warmth of Thatcherism)

Tomorrow Belongs To ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll cross-examine My Darling with my own questions on:
". . . Mr Darling said the Union was key to survival in the global economy. . . . He said: 'I believe Scotland faces a stark choice today. Is Scotland's priority constitutional change, or the urgent task of addressing the challenges and opportunities posed by globalisation as we try to secure a sustainable, prosperous future for Scotland and Britain?'"

Why do you insinuate falsely that Scotland could not be an independent nation yet part of an U.K.?

Why do you insinuate falsely that constitutional change must be a non-priority even if not the top priority?

Aren't you insinuating that the U.K.--with or without Scotland--should become/remain yet another plantation for the new global plutocracy to plunder?

Are you blind to the plight & lessons of the U.S.A. in "globalisation"?

Excuse me, my Chinese contamination levels require me to sign off and rest.

Soon the concept of Scottishness and Englishness etc will be irrelevant. Immigration will take care of that.

Conclusion: ditch devolution - strengthen a single multicultural country: Britain.

21-eddylongshanks

ALISTAIR DARLING WAS BORN IN LONDON. NOVEMBER 28th. 1953

121- grouch. WHAT ON EARTH WAS ALL THAT RAMBLING ABOUT?

21-eddylongshanks

RUMOUR HAS IT THAT ALISTAIR DARLING'S MOTHER WAS WENDY DARLING AND HIS FATHER WAS PETER PAN. IF SO NOT ONLY IS HE ILLEGITIMATE, BUT A FAIRY TOO.

21-eddylongshanks

RUMOUR HAS IT THAT WENDY DARLING WAS ALISTAIR DARLING'S MOTHER AND PETER PAN WAS HIS FATHER MAKING HIM NOT ONLY ILLEGITIMATE, BUT A FAIRY ALSO.

128. McTaggert-Skye / 7:07pm 9 Nov 2007

"Soon the concept of Scottishness and Englishness etc will be irrelevant. Immigration will take care of that.
Conclusion: ditch devolution - strengthen a single multicultural country: Britain."

Ignorant cak.

Being a Scot is a way of life, an outlook informed by the land, our past and a way to a better future with empowering structures NOT oppressing structures.

Enforced demographic change has always and always will be one of the largest causes of hundreds, even thousands of years of unrest.

There is no such thing as "multicultural" there is only multiracial. New York could well be argued to be "multicultural" yet it is not. All the different cultures that partake stay in groups, practice their rituals and engage with their customs, this is multiracial, indeed multi-tribal. Of course those whom deny/lose/forget their culture are those who meet in the middle as human discourse, with out cultural base. Lost in a sea with out direction in a capitalist wind.

You need to dig a lot deeper englishman.

3 wealthiest nations per capita in Europe. Norway. Luxembourg. Ireland. None of them exactly giants.

I think that Alistair Darling is more concerned about the future of an independent England that an independent Scotland. He better represent an English constituancy in the next elections.

#128
Who wants a multicultural country, other than the politicians. Get real. Has there ever been a referendum on that issue?

Away wae ye and yur 'union' - oo've hun unuf o' yur 'union'. It wuz nivur oor 'union', bit wuz impozed oan us. Oo'll dae jist fine whin oor INDEPENDENT and at that time oo'll treat yooz English as oor guid neeburs and lit bygone be bygones. A new start wib be a braw thing fur aw o' us.

None of these politicians have the balls to tackle immigrations, not when it's easier to hand out passports like confetti to illegal criminals. Illegal = criminal, get over it lefties.

# 137, be glad that the illegals can't cross on foot as they do here.

135 Who wants a multicultural country, other than the politicians. Get real. Has there ever been a referendum on that issue?

Well, for example Polish immigrants (nothing against them) are numerous enough for supermarkets to cater for their needs. A different cultur?

In 20 years Scots will be a minority - thank God. decrease in whingeing and blaming the weather on the English (who will also be a minority).

I have a brilliant idea. Scotland will no longer demand independence if you give in to our demands.

1) Transfer the whole of the governmental powers over to the Scots, and parliment is now on Scottish soil.

2) We are no longer called British. We (even the those South of the border are now Scottish subjects. The name shall be UNITED SCOTLAND.

3) The queen admits she is actually Scottish and be done with it.

4) We wear our kilts without ridicule.

5) We are made ammends for the clearences 200 years ago. (money will work)

Start with these and then we'll see if shes still a good fit in this time of an unstable economy.

16 imposed Union indeed.

Actualy something the English and Scots have in common. Th English resented Scottish entry into their affairs too. Demonstrations in London etc. Still, the Union with rich England saved Scotland - a bankrupt land. Scotland did very well out of Empire and many now lik t distance themselves by claiming Scotland was a colony. Hypocritical.

Lets brace ourselves now for the abuse.

I was born in Rothesay and when I was a lad all my family came to England for work, work wise I can’t complain but when I go up to I often ask myself why does England seem to have more opportunities in better wages or housing for example then Scotland if we are all British?

There is a good reason for that while Scotland is part of a British Parliament the English majority will always make sure policies that benefit England will come first and it wouldn’t matter if all the Scots MPS voted as they should do in Scotland’s interest they would be defeated in a vote.

You would have thought the Scots would have realised that a long time ago but it seems not, the English can move the boundaries between English and Scottish waters they can steal Scottish waters rich in fish and oil when does it all end.

I couldn’t care a toss if Scotland standard of living went down if Scotland went fully independent, but to make clear that certainly would not happen that’s why England gave Scotland devolution to keep control of our fish and oil and other assets they have not got.

Those Scots if they are Scots who favour the Union I say move down to England and see how they live compared to you in Scotland then maybe you might see things differently.

I fully support the SNP for an independent Scotland, I don’t agree with all their polices but at least the SNP are doing what Scots MPS should have being doing many years AGO. Some of my family have moved back up to Scotland a good number of years ago and I am in the process of following.

Last word I am very disappointed that the Newspapers in Scotland seems to support staying in a United kingdom but I assume they are being told what to say from their English master.

Scotland badly need a newspaper that will support the Scottish people and a Scottish Nation and as an independent Scotland I would assume we will work with the English as an equal part when our interest are the same that be

I think we all need to pay attention to the phrase "New World Order",a phrase which is very new in our mainstream political vocabulary and increasingly used by politicians and journalists who never really define what it is.
In fact,far from being new,it is a very old and very important concept in Britain and the USA.It is the basis of the real "Special Relationship" between our two countries.It is the common goal of the US Neo-Conservatives and the British Fabian Socialists.
It is important to understand that our countries are in reality run by a form of shadow government which has very little to do with democracy and has,for a very long time worked toward the creation of a World Government,a scientific dictatorship run by International Bankers and intellectual elites.
To understand how this unelected elite control and manipulate our countries and what their long-term goals are,you have to look into the history of the Rhodes-Milner Round Table organisations,(and their various off-shoots like the Fabian Co-Efficients Club)their relationship with International Bankers,the large tax-exempt foundations in the US(the "Big Foundations", Rockefeller,Carnegie etc),the US Federal Reserve and large influential think-tanks,especially the Royal Institute for International Affairs(Chatham House) and their American branch, the Council on Foreign Relations(CFR).
An American historian called Carroll Quigley(Bill Clintons mentor at Georgetown University)has written extensively about the history and activities of this network and his books "Tragedy and Hope" and "The Anglo-American Establishment" (both available as free e-books from Archive.org) are a must read.

"No country that values its safety should allow what the Milner group accomplished in Britain, that is, that a small number of men should be able to wield such power in administration and politics, should be given almost complete control over

To illustrate what kind of future this elite has in mind for us,here is a quote from David Rockefeller,a prominent globalist and member of the Council on Foreign Relations,as well as the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg..........

""We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."
(David Rockefeller, speaking before the Trilateral Commission in Baden-Baden, Germany 1991)

I like Anderson 140 Ha HA HAAaaaaaaaaa
And they get to keep the jonney walker.
And pal the Queen is German not a Scot.
Dianna was a Scot.

ONE FOOT ON NESSIE, THE OTHER ON THE DOORSTEP OF #10. HOW LONG CAN THIS IMAGINARY PERSON STAND WITHOUT FALLING DOWN?
THERE MUST BE A MAJORITY MINDSET, OTHERWISE IT WILL JUST BE A MESS OF COMPLAINING.
I THINK OF SCOTLAND AS FREE, BECAUSE OF IT'S SPIRIT, BUT THE BUREAUCRATIC NIGHTMARE MIGHT WIN THE DAY, IF INDEPENDENCE WINS OR DOES NOT. THAT IS THE REAL DILEMMA, HOW TO AVOID THE BUCRATIC BOG THAT STANDS BETWEEN REAL SUCCESS AND REAL FAILURE. ELECTED GLADHANDERS OFTEN HAVE LIMITED CHOICES, AFTER THE REALITY SETS IN. A KIND OF PSYCHOLOGICAL- POLITICAL FLATNESS STARTS TO CREATE COMPLICATIONS AND CAN ERODE NEW IDEAS, AND NOT MUCH GETS DONE. IF YOU CAN AVOID THAT, THEN SCOTLAND CAN BE REALLY FREE ENOUGH TO INTRUDE INTO THE POLICIES OF ENGLAND, AND MAKE A REAL STAB AT GETTING MORE AND MORE FOR SCOTLAND, UNTIL SCOTLAND IS NO LONGER BEING DRAGGED DOWN BY IT'S ASSOCIATIONS TO THE STAUS QUO IN ENGLAND. CHANGE FOR THE BETTER, THEN MAKE A BREAK FOR IT. NOW, IS TOO SOON. THE MINDSET IS STILL STUCK BETWEEN THE BOG AND THE DOWNING ST. DOORSTEP, I FEAR. JUST MY OPINION, WORTH NO MORE. SCOTLAND IS MY HEART'S HAME.