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This could only happen here.. pathetic.
For so long as a hundred....................
As far away as Australia, Scots are watching what this breed of helpless socialist politicians are prepared to sit back and allow. It is common knowledge that socialits have no sense of history beyond the Bolshevik Revolution. Everything else is reactionary.
This the chance, throw the uselss heap of miscreants out as soon as you have an election and get some pride back in the area where it matters, with the people who run it. But I remember my old father's reason for leaving Scotland was that the people would vote for a socialist even if they chose a cow standing in a field as their candidate.
NO doubt some of your councillors are going to reap the "benefit" that the rest of us won't know about!
"....No one can do anything about it..."Bruce and Bannockburn are the two most important items in Scottish history and those bunch of losers in Holyrood "....can't do anything about it's destruction?..."
If Scottish voters EVER needed a reason to vote SNP NOW THEY HAVE IT!
Has the National Trust done nothing to ensure that this site is not disfigured?
Wake up Scotland. Can you imagine Americans doing this to one of their battlefields or teaching Bolshevik history in schools? My nieces in Scotland are taught about the Russian Revolution but nothing about the Scottish War of Independence or anything else about Scotland for that matter. Throw these Labour bums out before they destroy us completely.
Typical New Labour numpties. They don't care about Scotland or its history. They would only do something to preserve the hill if their masters in Westminster told them to.
Wee Joke McConnel is saying nothing either as, again, he hasn't received any instructions on the matter from his masters in Westminster.
Roll on May so that we can, once again, decide our own destiny.
Saor Alba.
We must be realistic and practical. Pracically all of Scotland has at one time or another been the site of some event, or events, that had a major bearing on the way ahead for Scotland. Take edinburgh, for examply; the place is positively minging with history - so much so that you really cant do anything along the lines of modernisation. I think it is sufficient to know that a significant conflict occured and around at the site known as Bannockburn, but, there's no need to preserve it in aspic. In any case, the entire effort made there was reduced to naught by the self-centered activities of a bunch of treasonous whores a few centuries later when those people sold us out to the bloody English. Let's correct that monumental screw-up first, then we can talk about the real estate and other incidentals. Independence Now & Forever!
Why cant it be classed as a site of National Importance ? as usual money talks. The public can vote very soon, so boot them out of office and give a clear message to the labour party and Tarmac.It's hard to believe nothing can be done to save the site in this day and age.
Would Hanson and Tarmac be English companies by any chance? Shareholders 90% in England? Then it looks like the English have won the Battle of Bannockburn! As usual the Scottish elite, in this case Scottish politicians are looking the other way. Nobody has mentioned a tax of say 500 pounds per ounce for the whinstone removed from a major Scottish historical site. You know historical samples etc. This way Tarmac and Hanson could continue with the extraction of whinstone and no contracts or permission would have to be invalidated by our cowardly political friends. Of course, at 500 pounds an ounce historical tax it is going to be bloody expensive whinstone.
#10 Gaga, sorry, Guga. "Decide our own destiny". You mean, just like the animals did in Animal Farm?
If the hill is so important, maybe the SNO should use some of Brian Souter's money to buy it........
Oops SNP
Where's the other ninety nine?
This could never hapopen to England's Heritage Indusry - who also own Scotland's feeble Heritage Industry.
Absolutely Disgusting! This small piece of land is one of the most important places in Scottish and indeed British history. It is at least as important as Edinburgh Castle, Stirling Castle, The Wallace Monument, Culloden Moor the list is virtually endless.
Do the Ass-embly have any power to stop this desecration? Do they want to stop it? Do the 'powers that be' in Westminster want to chip away at our heritage?
Hadrian's Wall was made from whinstone why can't they use that instead?
this happened in midlothian with the siting of a huge glass recycling plant next to historic dalhousie castle now a very important tourist hotel attracting visitors from around the world. have you ever heard the noise glass recycling makes? the councillors should say no to this quarry .
can the stone come from anywhere else? Once this historic site is gone it can never be replaced but stone can come from other locatoins. Maybe they'll have to travel a little further for it but wouldn't that be a better solution?
There's a hill in the America state of Utah that's been historically known as 'the Point of the Mountain'. It actually divides the state in half and have been used for identification of the area it's in by, the Native Americans, since the before the 'white man' moved into the state.
Now there is no Point of the mountain, or 'Point' as it became know because the state felt it needed THAT sand and rock to build it's roads as well. There was a plentyful supply of the sand and rock about 40 miles away in an area without known history and away from communities. The point is now gone and only NOW are the road builders travelling the 40 miles to get what they need.
The 'Point' is gone and and what was once a beatuiful piece of landscape is now just a horrid hole in the ground. The sound of birds singing has been replaced with lots and lots of dust for the near by residents to contend with on a daily basis.
People who visit the spot are now left to ask, "What's the Point?"
That is what we must ask... what is the point of destroying such a historical place at Gillies Hill? Once that stone is gone they'll be forced to get it elsewhere so why don't they just get it elsewhere now?
Why has Bannockburn and the surrounding not been made a National Heritage site to prevent this kind of thing happening??
If we don't preserve our heritage, make Monument Parks to them, like this, probably the most imprtant site in our history since it virtually guaranteed our Independence from English Domination in 1314 ..... then maybe we deserve to lose it.
To all politicians who read these forums .... and we know you do ..... get the finger out and stop this .... or a few hundred of us will go and occupy that hill when the diggers come out.
Come on people, this is every bit as important to the Scottich psyche as anti-Trident demonstrations at Faslane!
If any of you think we Alec Salmond is going to do anything about it, think again. If he gets in and I think it's a big IF, just remember, the day after the election he'll be a politician in POWER (that's what it's really all about for All of them!) and whatever is expedient will be what's done. If Bannockburn isn't expedient he will be found somewhere, anywhere but near, looking the other way! And if either quarrying company has contributed a cent to the SNP there will be excuses, duck-shoving, obfuscation, call it what you like - but nothing done !#11 Conan, I heartily admire your Nationalism and Patriotism but never fear, my Celtic friend, if your SNP gets in come May it's leaders are POLITICIANS and not a ONE of them is worth a toss of anybody's national expectations. Salmond's no exception.
Yep - here we go again - we use history to bring cold cash in to the country, but we still have no idea whats good and crap - if this go's heaven help them!!
I am a fellow scot living here in England. I do go home periodically to Dalkeith and I am proud of my Heritage and COUNTRY. Regarding the break up of the Union I do not think this would be a bad thing we have been hoodwinked for long enough by Westminster and Hollyrood (puppet parliment) and to insult the Scottish nation further the destruction of a landmark which played part of a turning point in our Scotish History. Bannockburn must still nip the minds of some of the English Establishment I wonder if they would be as quick to churn up the Towton Battle Field(War of the Roses 1462) and may way for a housing estate . No I think not !!. The Labour Government have forgotten who they are who they represent and where they came from. Taxation gives them big wallets and a Private Pension scheme which is PROTECTED!!they think we came up the Clyde on a bannana boat and made the return trip on a bycycle. They are a bunch of Gangsters and the joke is they get away with it.
Scots Wha Hay
#24. And why not! My sister's boy buys comics and he tells me there's one coming out soon called Amazons Attack!!!
Now there's a war-cry for us!!!
Maybe to them, it's a type of mini coup for Labours masters down south. They need a good kick in the backside.
so, is anyone actually protesting or doing anything active?
If ever anything disgusts me more about Labour politicians in Scotland it is their hatred of anything to do with Wallace or Bruce or the Wars of Independence. Stirling brain dead have voted for Labour for years, the very politicians who want to obliterate everything Scottish from the map. Not only the Gillies Hill but in Glasgow, the Labour group have totally neglected the Roystone Monument to Wallace and Wallace's Well. This band of thugs allowed that very special place to be desecrated by a Stewart Milne's housing scheme. In any other country in the world these sacred places would be protected and preserved for posterity. But not Scotland, in a Union with the greatest nationalists the world has seen. Shame on you Labour!
AM Glasgow #28 Now I am with you!
AM#28 After we have voted out this Executive
Hopefully this doesn't go ahead, but if it does, then maybe Stirling Council can fix their roads with some of the stone. The SC must have the worst set of roads anywhere in Scotland. The quality control when fixing rounds is also appalling. A stretch of road recently fixed only lasted nine months before pot-holes started again.
They are currently working on the A811 the main route west of Stirling towards Loch Lomond. The standard of work is ridiculous. No hard edges to the road side and no proper drainage. This is a cosmetic patch. I'll give it three months before the surface breaks up again.
I agree with others above, Independence will rid us of the English shackles, but I can't see it will improve us any, as politicians are politicians regardless of their colours.
Cry FREEDOM
looking through this thread the xenaphobia is startling. from stating that the company that wanted to quarry had english shareholders to the rest of the stuff.. frightening. It would seem that most of you are content to wallow in a glorified past of failures than look at reality and look to the future.
small minded men who can only see as far as they own bigotry.
Looks like the Labour lot got up early this morning, must have had a restless night after hearing all the positive news over the last few days regarding the SNP.
Why is anyone surprised that this planning permission has been granted? The “What’s in it for us” Councillors will always put commercial interests before history or for that matter anything else. Come to Ayrshire and have a look at what Opencast Coal Companies have been allowed to get away with and then check the Council’s Register of Members Interests. Makes good reading to see who gets what, from whom. Futhermore I would wager that what is declared is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
Tarmac is 100% owned by Anglo American plc, a huge global business which ultimately will be owned by probably tens, maybe even hundreds, of millions of people spread around the world through collective investments, pension funds, insurance companies etc. Page 4 here:
http://www.angloamerican.co.uk/static/uploads/2006%20Noti...
Substantial shareholdings as at 20 February 2007:
Legal & General plc 4.12%Old Mutual plc 7.02%PLC Nominees (Pty) 24.84%
The 2007 AGM will be held in London on April 27th.
Much the same will be true of Hanson - another international company, and its ultimate owners will be millions of people around the world.
"Scots unite"; lets not let the government destroy one of our most important historic sites.
Interesting that these two companies are the same ones who are moving the Mendip Hills lock,stock and barrel and spreading them in a thin layer over the whole of southern England.May I warn the local residents that they can expect hundreds of heavy lorry movements every day, as currently happens in this area.It is company policy to have their drivers driving at 50-60 mph on 'B' roads where the National Speed limit is 40.ChrisPS Are you getting the improved roads, built with all this aggregate?
I hope this is not all just talk. If not, someone should launch a Save Bannockburn web site to add a focus.Spread the word to the Scottish community in the States and around the world.Has anyone thought of getting in touch with Billy Connelly(don't laugh) as he has the ear(a big sticky out one at that) of the Prime Minister.Andrew Neal, the editor of a daily rag. You know the thing.There is nothing like some "celebrities" shouting to get the public attention.And for God's sake, form an action group.Don't just talk about it.Once it's gone. It's gone.To add a final insult, someone from the local council will probably site Robert's statue in front of a public lavatory.
Jeff(in exile)
.......Another case o' Labour at Holyrood wi' a finger up their JACK-sie !! Gerrem out.......Finger as well !!
Sorry, the Anglo American AGM is on April 17th, not 27th, and "Only those shareholders registered in the relevant register of members at 11:00 am on 15 April 2007 shall be entitled to attend and vote at the AGM in respect of the number of shares registered in their name at that time" if anybody wants to go along and make a protest inside the AGM.
Corkhead, Has anyone thought of getting in touch with Billy Connelly(don't laugh) as he has the ear(a big sticky out one at that) of the Prime Minister.
Sorry Corky, Mr. Connelly is so far up the establishments erse (and rich), he probably has bigger and better things to do with his time. Allegedly.
Disgusting - but I hope any of you think the SNP will be any better at looking after such sites. They won't; in Falkirk alone just look at the record of their councillors in local government over this type of development.
#2 and #3 : so what is anybody going to do about it? The Declaration of Arbroath was a long time ago, and as far as I can see there are considerably more than 100 of us left alive.
Now is the chance to put up or shut up. If it is as important as you believe remove your fingers and take it back. There must be enough to to do it, it is a problem to prosecute 200/300 + people, and I am sure that there must be enough weathy clansmen to cover the fines.
The Proud Chauvanist
Revolution before lunch....
Of course you can stop it. You tell the companies involved that you made a mistake and invite them to find other areas to quarry. That can't be the only place in Scotland to find stone.
"there is nothing anyone can do to stop it."
UNLESS they want to
I think the entire story was actually summed up in the first five posts- this is another disgusting act by those idiots who are 'supposed to lead us!'
Hi Scotspatriot.I had a feeling Billy might have become sanitised.When Blair was first made leader of the Labour Party I had a funny feeling about him that he was a "wrongun". Out for himself so to speak like a loot of politicians.Salmond gives me that same feeling.You will need some big names to stand with you.
The English would never accept this , for example at Hastings - and they lost that one.There are plenty other places to quarry - not the site which is part of where Scotland was partially moulded.
I cannot believe Scottish people will sit back and let this happen -- but then again it's happening all over Scotland - even here on Arran where Jack McConnell comes from and Stirling was where he learned his trade.The battle for Scotland is really lost anyway -- just watch any roving report on EBC news--sorry BBC--and note the accents speaking on our behalf whilst wearing our national dress --they originate mostly from south of Hadrian's Wall -- it brings out the Nationalistic bit in me!!and I have always voted Labour but not any more! How much more are we going to accept our lands being raped by usurpers and our heritage ripped from our grasp? Scots are too apathetic to get off the mark and do something before it's too late. Oh William Wallace...where are you now to fire us up when the auld enemy is lurking again?Contrary to how this may read, I am not anglophobic but there is only so much a decent Scot can take !Lay the proud usurpers low-Tyrants fall in every Foe.LIBERTY in every blowLet us Do or Dee !!!
Nice one Scots Wha Hae
Mind you - If you were a devioust tumshie like Tony Blair , would now not be the right time for him to stand up and say "Stop the quarrying - you cannot destroy the past of such a marvellous country and race". Timely ingratiating himself to the upcoming voters that are slightly siding towards the SNP. Don't be too suprised if the slimey man times his intervention to perfection.If only the SNP would just put independance on the back burner for it to "be looked at and discussed in years to come" so that the waiverers that are frightened of change would take a chance to vote for a party other then "Labour". That party that is more like Thatcher's Torries than any other government in history.Do not vote for "Labour" because you and your family always have - that party is no longer anything like the Labour of old. No semblance whatsoever.
"The English would never accept this ..." For God's sake, do you really think this kind of thing is only happening in Scotland? Historical sites and buildings, and ancient woodlands and landscapes, are under threat right across the UK. They count for nothing when there are a) private profits to be made and b) increased tax revenues to be collected.
Bill McCall says "It is common knowledge that socialits have no sense of history beyond the Bolshevik Revolution. Everything else is reactionary. " Really? So you can't be a Socialist and appreciate the history of the Glasgow rent strike, the Campaigns of John Maclean against the first world war and for Scottich Socialism, to mention just a few. Don't mention Harry McShane, Keir Hardie or any of the struggles to form a Socialist Tradition in Scotland. Once again it is big business that it profiting from destroying the history of the scots, aided by the Scottish New Labour "Tories". New Labour thinking has nothing in common with Socialism and everything with a modified form of Thatcherism. It's not another set of rogues we need but a Scottich Socialist Republic as John Maclean believed.
Of course no Scots history was ever taught me as an American, yet somehow, even I know the historical signfigance of Bannockburn. Do something! Do it loudly!
Picket signs and public opinion change many things, including history, for good and bad.
It looks like the great god of capitalism is alive and well in the UK. In the USA, campaign costs are paid for by big business so each Senator and Congressman is "bought" before he enters these institutions to represent the citizens interests.This is how people like G W Bush get elected and they represent big business not the citizen. That is why you have the war in Iraq- for profit. The UK appears to be the same although the method such as illegal loans may be different. This is why nothing will be done about Bannockburn. As somebody in Canadian politics once said ' follow the money' One good thing about Prime Minister Chretien is that he banned campaign contributions from big business as far as Canada is concerned. But there are of course a miriad of ways in which the politician can be bought such as the example of the Olympics where Olympic committee members votes were "bought" by offering US scholarships at prestigious US Universities to their children. Oh by the way, enjoying the ballooning cost of the London beautification project known as the 2012 Olympics and your contribution from the charity lottery?
Why oh why won't the council, regional or national authorities take their balls in their hands and pass a new rule? Because there is NO MONEY in it for them.The council are scared of being sued, the regional (Lothian, I think) authority can pass the buck up or down, and the national parliament are too busy feeding at the big-business trough.its pathetic.Governments MAKE laws, even local governments. if the town council wanted to, they would pass a law protecting areas of historic interest from physical disfiguration, with no exceptions for past or current planning approvals. Simple.Clearly, they don't want to.
Yo! The_Big_Kev! Thought this would interest you, you being an emigre, and all. I'm a day late in getting your reply from yesterday, and thought you might like to have a look at my latest on that.
Hang your heads in shame!
No not the Government or Stirling Council!
You. yes you! Complaining about something you consider to be wrong is justified but why do you have to try to blame it on the ENGLISH?
I've made the point before but I fear no-one was listening. Go and read up on our glorious "history". There were Scots on both sides killed at Bannockburn and every other major battle allegedly between the Scots and the "English".
You all talk of big business and people profiting from their activities but would any of you care if the significant hill was in Northumberland or perhaps in Ulster?
Didn't think so!
This is not the site of the battle it is the site of something related to the battle. Battlefields tend to be located in places of economic importance or main roads, because that is what the armies came for.
We cannot allow the "heritage" industry to turn the entire country into a museum in which the needs of currently living people have no place. There can be few places in Scotland where followers of an army did not walk at some time.
TRY AND TOUCH IT AND YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER BANNOCKBURN ON YOUR HANDS,AND IT WONT COME FROM ENGLAND,IT WILL COME FROM SCOTLAND AND THE PEOPLE WHO CARE.SILLY PEOPLE EVEN TO SUGGEST IT.OFF WITH THEIR HEADS.
You poor deluded fools. Scots turn out in their hundreds to save the poor wee failed asylum seekers from rightful and legal deportation. When did you ever see Scots stand up and fight to save anything that is their own.
Surely stone for roads could be found elsewhere. It is a shame to lose such a historic site.
So, another historical site is being done away with, eh ? I remember when I still lived in Scotland, ( until 1981 ), they knocked down Elderslie Castle, reputed birthplace of William Wallace, on the grounds it was "unsafe." At the time, I said that I couldn't imagine Spain demolishing anywhere connected with THEIR national hero, El Cid. I can't imagine anywhere demolishing comparable structures, natural or man-made. But, and don't forget I am from Scotland here, what can you expect of a country of such complete no-hopers as Scotland ? The dole, unemployment, sectarianism, crime, alcoholism, atrocious health.......does the list stop ? I have to admit that to me, Scotland has been for many years sad sacks crying into their beer about how bad things are, but doing nothing about it. "Ye cannae dae that," is their reply to just about everything.
Do You really expect a first minster who sold off NHS land for £1.00 to a member of his family to step in and stop this--NO!
do you expect a first minister who cares more about sending £6 million of our money to Africa for a pet project he has no mandate to do---NO!
do you expect a fist minister who was behind Peter Peacock when he suggested dropping Scottish History from the curriculum to stop this---NO!
Do you really expect Labour to stop our heritage being eroded---NO!
Labour are only interested in themselves and what their offices can do for them financially, they are not interested in the people; our concerns; our history; our welfare or anything else Scottish.
destroy our historical sites and you eventually wipe history from peoples minds, and that is what they have been doing all along. they lie, they cheat, they ignore popular consensus; they rip us off at every turn and they will probably profit from this seal with Hansen and Tarmac, don't kid yourself!!!
TIME FOR A CHANGE FOR THE BETTER VOTE SNP
The reality of the situation is that no-one in any position of power will do anything down to sheer greed, they all stand to make a profit...And even with Scottish independence I fear that it shall not change as long as we have money obbsessed people running the country...As for "no-one do anything about it"...If anyone tried to protest against it they'd be arrested and charged with breach of the peace, so a poor man although he is supposed to have the right to protect his home (Scotland) has none whatsoever.Tarmac and Hanson...These are both multinational companies, so is this the only place in the world they can get whinestone?Oil companys find black gold in the middle of the ocean a profond depths and drill it out with extreme accuracy and these people can't find some whinestone anywhere in the world except Bannock burn?Where are these roads going to be built?In our country?Didn't think so, and even then if they were, it would takes years to do a job, that could be done in a matter of months...I hope independence will come with some form of self sufficency...Why should we sell our property to others to then be without?I seem to be missing the point anyway it's not really the fact that it is Bannock burn or any other historical site, it would be more that we are losing more of our green country side and our wildlife, by digging holes which we will never fill in, to build grey roads which being honest we have enough of anyway...Why don't we dig up all the stone from under the earth and tarmac the world?Try improving the roads we have...
It's nothing short of blasphemy. You'd be hung, drawn and quartered for despoiling an Aboriginal sacred site here. So why should ours be any different?
#8 Canads, our battlefields are under commercial attack. Gettysburg is a very good example but yes we do stand up and fight the money people. To my Scottish cousins, do not let this happened. There are some historical sites that should be protected and this hill has played too important of a part of your history to be destroyied, I read how many want independence and other items about your culture and historical past. Still I read how important tourism is to your econome and one of the mains reason for tourism is your rich historical site. From reading this article, I knew about Bannockburn from family history but not the hill. To me that hill is is much too important to be destroyied.
It is amazing that some "developer" can destroy things and is accountable to no one but his bank balance. It is equally remarkable that the local councils claim they cannot do anythiong to stop it. Have they never heard of compulsory purchase? Anorthre example of incompetence.
Oh, and i almost forgot the carnage that is caused to humans and animals on these roads each year is phenomonal so really there is absolutely no good going to come out of it whatsoever...Apart from profit of course which the average joe will never see...I think if they want to sell our country we should all have a share of the profit...
Quote from the article:
"local council admits far more extensive work is about to begin and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it."
This is democracy 21st century.
The councillors, the Scottish Executive want so who cares about ancient monuments, Scottish history or Scotland's scenery.
Who cares about what the people want, it's what the council/lors, the SE want, nothing else matters.
That's the message of democracy for Scots.
Scots ought start putting the "demo" back into democracy.
So when did Gillies Hill become an important piece of Scotland's heritage?
Well, surely it could not have been, when permission was granted to quarry it off of the landscape, could it?
What were the guidelines used when deciding on the appropriateness of this application?
WAKE UP SCOTLAND. I cannot believe this place is not on the historic register, ANY historic register. However, #23 is right; once a politician gets in, ANY politician) is it all over and all about the power, influence and of course, money. There is no such thing as an honest politician, anywhere. How very sad this story is but how typical.
I agree with #49. Save your historical monuments and sites. Change the laws or agreements. Or why can't the roads be made of something else. My family left Scotland to escape starvation and death, another triumph of the English. Take the country back.
23The problen with your coment is Alex Salmond visits this site EVERY YEAR Its called the Bannockburn rally, usually around Midsummers day.You are out of order.You are also out of Scotland.
This ladies and gents is the straw that gonna break the labour party. This wanton disregard of Proud Scottish Heritage will COST this shoe-scrapping of a politico his career. Check this Cretins background and I'm sure you'll find his ancestors stole sheep to escape the Potato Famine. SCOTS EVERYWHERE UNITE or wur awe doomed.
This story, like so many like it, is sickening. To lose so much history in a single blow is sad. All about money and politics Im sure. When these Quarry leaders are dead and gone will their children say, " Here is the place my father fought for to destroy and take away form Scotland, I'm so proud".
It is outrageous that a site of such importance in the history of Scotland and Britain should not be protected. Anyone who has Scotlands interests at heart must fight to preserve the sense of place at Bannockburn! This is one issue where we need to set aside our political differences!it
Can`t, Can`t Can`t,Won`t, Won`t,Won`t.The pathetic cries of those tired weary ineffective so-called leaders of this country who have`nt the guts to say NO to those companies who want to destroy a vital part of our heritage.They are so full of Westminster puddings they can`t see the change of mood in the people of this country who want leaders who actually care about this country.Hold on to your coups the SNP are coming!
Scotland is becoming more and more like America every day. Over here we tear down what is "old" and there's very little left of our young history--greed by politicians and companies, I imagine. What a shame to start the demise of Bannockburn. Your young people will be deprived of their history and lovely landscapes -all in the name of so called "progress". Shame on those who are allowing the quarry to open.
As an expatriate I cannot believe that an historically strategic part of Scottish history is to be broken down to make 'roads.' Has Hadrian come back to haunt us? Maybe someone should look and see if Stonehenge would be a good source for 'road making '. As much as these two scenerios look daft so must I think of the Plannning Department who gave carte blanche to do whatever they wanted in order to put money in the coffers of bureaucracy, without stopping to think of the disastrious effect and impact this would have later on.So what is our esteemed Scottish Parliament going to do about it ? Can the place not be placed under a'historical site' protectin order? Not only because of The battle but the fact that a stone age fort is also in the vicinity.Surely such historical significance would deem this be the course to take to preserve the sites and sends the 'carpetbaggers' back from where they came.
It seems that Scotland and her people are being given every opportunity to take back their country. We in America are facing our own dilemma with the immigration issue and neither political party seems to have the desire to resolve the problem…so far; we have to push them at the ballot box. Greedy, bloated politicians are trying to steamroller us but I predict by 2008 Americans will stop sending many of these offenders back to Washington. So can it be for Scotland. There are many patriots in Scotland of all political affiliations that I have met in my four years spent in Scotland…from Avoch to Ayrshire, Douglas to the Borders, north again to Fife…on and on… but unless or until the Scottish people unite in a statement of solidarity ‘FOR SCOTLAND’ England will continue to ‘have her way with her stepchild’. One day your wonderful country, the home of my ancestors will be free and independent again but that will take the perseverance of Patriots; a long difficult road of WORK not grousing in pubs and saying it can’t be done. The ballot box is the first step. I recently found this medieval proverb in Bower’s Scotichronicon; telling us that Berwick on Tweed will again be part of Scotland; food for thought: “When the Scottish people is fighting on the Holy Hill of its own free will, the English will fall at Berwick, (not) without guilt”.
I proposed to my wife in the shadow of Bruce. For me this spot is not an inspiration for nationalism but for the small person who wants to take of the might of bigger and more powerful people. Lets keep it -and the site.
There's the foundations of a grist mill and oat drying pit in Quebec that are the remains of my forefather's work who was born in Argyll Scotland and died in Quebec in 1829. I can go and touch these stones. Will those who live in Scotland no longer be able to go and touch the stones, grass and land of Bannockburn? Not likely if the politicians who are paid off by big industry have their way.
Is there another site for the quarry? There. Here:................................Is there another area to clearcut..rather than in eco sensitive or visible tourist areas?Yes ...us "tree huggers" are all the same... standing in the way of some one "making a buck" by destroying human historical land marks, or 500 year old trees.Only a few care ,the rest do not give a rat`s A$$
I dont know what has happened to Scottish pride I am beginning to believe that you need the English to keep you right.
But the need the aggregate tae build - the Edinburgh Tram link - EARL - the new Runways and airport expansions - motorway improvements - its absolutely essential for the economy of the country
aye - right!
I seldom respond to many articals but this one about digging on this Sacred Historical site got me jumping mad. A line has to be drawn Scotland. Stop this madness.
The first commentor said, "This could only happen here." Sadly this is not true.
A few years ago, over here in the U.S., a major housing project of five thousand single family homes was all set to obliterate a major portion of the battlefield at Gettysburg. All of the paperwork had passed and permission was given by the local county building commission without any public scrutiny. When people finally found out what was going to happen there was a national outcry, which luckily stopped it.
But all over the world, national and world heritage sites are endangered by potential land development, or by the extraction of natural resources. Historic and cultural sites can't choose where they are. So far, every site saved from distruction has had to be rescued one site at a time. Yet the pressure of expanding human use is always there, forcing us to cope with it.
So, Scotland! What are you willing to do to save Bannockburn?
Oh, come on..this is not real! No heritage, no backbone! I love Scotland for what it represents and hope to visit this lovely country one day. Please don't destroy this landmark. Mel Gibson...where are you?!?
I have had the privilege to visit the field of Bannockburn about 3 times now. I have felt the importance of what took place there. A sense of pride at what was achieved against all the odds. What happened at Bannockburn determined Scotland`s right to exist as a nation, despite Cromwell, the Act of Union, or Culloden. Bannockburn helped make Scotland what it is today. I believe that the site should not be tampered with in any way. Not a place where a victory against odds of 3 or 4 to 1 has made such a difference.
AS AN FORMER DOLLAR BOY I BELIEVE THAT#21 ,#88 TELL IT ALL.
the folks that approved the digging, should be buried in the hole that is left, what next..Wallace's Monument, then Stirling Castle..C'mon Scotland protect our heritage send them back, as they did in 1314...cherio the noo
Why do people give up so easily.
"There's nothing we can do!"
Bulls**t!
All it would require is a new law to protect the historical sites.
Phone, email, fax or otherwise harrass your MSP until they get the message!
WAKE UP SCOTLAND!
Protest, rallies anything but this has to be stopped, should Scottish heritage not take the site over
The population in Scotland and elwhere are on the war-path. Watch out everybody.
Justy
The English gits are always trying to take away what's ours.
The English do not want Scotland to realise thier destiny!
Independance from English scum NOW!
It is obvious that everything that is wrong in Scotland is all down to the English.
Having a truly patriotic, Scottish government would be far better for this country than a UK government.
Our own politicians care about this country.
The MSPs do not have the biggest expense bill in the UK and if Scotland was independant life would be so much better for the Scottish people.
We are stronger divided.
Scotland is full of suits who don't care about our heritage, drunks, drug addicts and criminals and it is all down to the English.
"Scotland what are you willing to do to save Bannockburn?"
Well, the same as usual - nothing.
Sit on our ass and complain about it and when it's all over we will blame it on the English.
104
Protest ?rallies?Absolutely!Its not thecomplete solution but its the start of a solution for sure.If you the people do not rise and occupy this land and refuse the quarriers access then they might as well take the stone of destiny again as well. This is your national pride at stake here. ARE WE A NATION? Im waiting for an answer Scotland.
Even if were not of Scottish descent, I would be outraged at this. On my first of several trips to Scotland, this was one of the first sites on my list of historic places to visit. Every Scottish-American who visits Scotland plans a trip to Bannockburn. As a member of Historic Scotland I'll also have my say on their website also.
Please stop them.
Why? Contracts are made to be broken. For Scotland's sake don't let the developer's do their what they do here. Scotland really doesn't want the landscape to change so much that ye would nae recognize it.
Stand up and protest!
Scots! Don't let it happen!
Theodore H (McClintock) Voth
Yes, yes, yes!!! Blast away until this hill no longer exists then we Englishmen will be happy. We get so angry when you Scots keep rubbing in our faces about how we lost.700 years is enough!I am thinking of starting a campagn in England to donate money so a McDonalds can be erected in place of this damned hill.
Come on Scots! Protect your heritage! I've also got Scottish blood in my veins.
Isn't it strange that on the one hand we have all kinds of memorials and memory days to celebrate WWII events and victims, yet on the other we do our best to destroy the memories of a more distant past that brought us where we are.
Foolish. foolish men who have the power to construct and will only destroy. Can't take that lying down. Protest!
This makes me sick.
I remember Ozzy Osbourne got thrown in the slammer for merely pissing on the Alamo and this bunch of dodgies are are getting away with raping the pride of scotland without challenge.
These eejits need strung up..
# 107 in Colorado - "Tell the Irish—they like a good fight and anything to stave off the English. :)" What the **** has it got to do with the English?
Scottish local authorities/Scottish Executive fail to protect an important historic site from exploitation by multi-national companies, and you say "stave off the English"? If it's "stave off the English" maybe it should also be "stave off the Americans"? I repeat:
"Tarmac is 100% owned by Anglo American plc, a huge global business which ultimately will be owned by probably tens, maybe even hundreds, of millions of people spread around the world through collective investments, pension funds, insurance companies etc. Page 4 here:
The 2007 AGM will be held in London on April 17th.
Much the same will be true of Hanson - another international company, and its ultimate owners will be millions of people around the world."
To Nowhere in Colorado @ 107
What has it got to do with the English.... please do enlighten me.
Or are you just running off at the mouth with the sentimentality of it all. Was there a little tear glistening in the corner of your eye as you wrote that load of old twaddle?
Most English people, if asked, have no idea and very little interest in what happened at Bannockburn .......... in fact, I doubt if you do either.
It was 700 years ago.... petal....... the English have better things to do with their lives trying to cope with this Labour government than worrying about some long, long ago battle.
Tell me ..... .how many viewings of Braveheart have you watched?
My god: The Romans needed stone to build there roads and no one gave a damm where it came from, and look how long those roads have lasted for, so stop bitching about the bloody stones and let them use it to build there roads,and if they last as long as the roman roads ,the Jocks will save a packet in the long run, GO ON TARMAC SEND IN THE DOZERS, we dont have any use for it any more.
From the Fat arsed, Beer bellied, over paid do gooders (M L A`s) We dont care. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL..
Come and take the stone from here lol lol lol loo....
By fair means or foul - this has to be stopped. Do not expect much real support from Councils or Histeric Scotland. Toothless tigers. The community councils are the foot soldiers.
Jees some folk would sell their grannies - you need to sort that out. This should be protected land. (Just read up on it - good win btw well played).
Perhaps Stirling Council should be sent "homewards, tae think again!"
Is the stone being taken south of the border????????
If the answer is yes can I suggest a large heap of stone that would be perfect for crushing into road making material - whats it called again oh yes!!!"STONE HENGE" ----
I think you will find that the reason the Russian revolution is taught in schools because it is a major historical landmark in world politics. As is the French revolution, again thus why it is given such great significance. What major political or social structures has the Scottish wars of independance brought to the world? the runrig system? which duely got replaced by a better and more sensible system. I would bet my bottom dollar that it is nothing close to the impact that communism has had on the world.
Oh, look, it's snowing - another wicked plot devised by the English ... :-)
As an Englishman I support the efforts of those who wish to save this important site in Scottish history. OK, my side lost on this occassion but we can't win them all.
There are too many very well paid petty little jumped up "officials" all over the country who have no idea of history and who seek to justify their position with these sort of stupid ideas.
If they couldn't knock down, or turn around the statue of the Duke of Sutherland who was responsible for the Highland Clearances they should not be permitted to destroy a statue/site like Bannockburn who, in the eyes of the Scots, was a far more worthy champion of their cause than the Duke ever was.
128John 2 You are a gentleman sir Thank You.121You are a guest here.Please show a little respect ,and do not shame Northern Ireland more than you already have done.
It would help if you learn the difference between their and there.
It is up to an organisation with media reach, like The Scotsman, to drive a campaign to stop this lunacy. Can you imagine the Engish allowing a quarrying company to desecrate Stonehenge, which has far less national significance than this.This is Scotland's fight and it needs a champion. Time for The Scotsman to live up to its name and step up to the plate. Are you The Scotsman or just another newspaper?
If you think this wouldn't happen in England think again! Big business calls the tune and whatever their pursuasion politicians dance to it. Incidentally, where do most of the Labour front bench come from? Certainly not from around Manchester - perchance a couple of hundred miles further north?
I think Steve, the very first post, flatters Scotland, by saying only here. This kind of thing is happening everywhere. The issues of history versus commerce are constant.Your history is just older.
Where is the Scottish leadership now? 700 years has made a notable difference to the quality of our leaders. Let us send the homeward……
It's all very well to moan about this on a newspaper site but those who don't want the quarry should write to their MSPs as well as the companies involved. If enough people complain something will be done. Be pro-active.
This has already happened in England the A14 was routed through the English Civil War battlefield of Naseby in 1992..... despite local and national opposition.
After Hastings and the Battle of Britain, which respectively began and ended the last millennium, Naseby was arguably the most important and decisive battle ever fought in England. Where those other battles were the result of challenges to the very basis of the kingdom by foreign foes, Naseby was the culmination of a bloody Civil War and the stepping stone for a political revolution.
Even more poignantly it is also happening on the battlefields of the Western Front of WW1. At Ypres and the Somme, buildings and roads are being built over the old battlefields, which is why, in recent years, there have been so many bodies of the 'missing of WW1' unearthed.
Their remains are treated with respect and reburied with ceremony. If identified, attempts are made to contact the descendents of these soldiers who may be from Scotland, England, Ireland, Wales or any of the other countries whose armies fought and died there.
Perhaps Scottish Heritage and the Scottish Executive should do more to save the hill at Bannockburn and preserve it as an important historical site.
135
YOu are correct of course.This happens in many places.
On this particular site,there is no need to do this.Scotland has so much stone we are in effect a mountain.New Labour would encourage this simply because it would annoy the SNP.Thats the level of some (but not all) that exists in that party.I would seriously suggest Union Jack stops this dead before it becomes an even more emotive issue,and if he thinks stepping in before polling day will save his ass forget it! We are removing you and your mates in perpetuity WAcko Jacko.Its just not official yet.IT WILL BE SOON
This is a link to a website which is dedicated to preserving and saving all the battlefields of the UK: http://www.battlefieldstrust.com/
They ask to be informed of any threats to battlefields so they can lobby the 'powers that be' ... perhaps someone who is concerned about the Bannockburn site should contact them.
#108 MorrisQuote:"ARE WE A NATION?"
Not if SNP are going to tell us porkies.
Now tell us the truth about the 3% council tax deal on the table.
The truth, no half truths!
What about those people in Scotland whose homes are worth a fraction of their value because of wind power companies who are changing our rights to roam Scotland.
Their developments are changing free roaming Scottish countryside into industrial no go areas.
The ancient peat bogs, our wonderful Golden and White tailed eagles, meant to be protected by EU legislation but so far ignored; our spectacular and historic landscapes that are being developed by wind companies; the 4,000 odd turbines planned for Scotland, near castles ancient monuments battle fields, etc. How can SNP help?l
In spite of massive objections by the people the councillors ignore the people. The current Scottish Executive appear to ignore the people.
Who are our current councillors working for if they are not working for the people of Scotland?
Will it be any different under SNP?
What's the SNP answer? Come on Morris, the truth, no half stories please.
The Turkish govt, declared the Gallipoli battlefield a National Park many years ago, in tribute to ALL the soldiers who died in that disasterous campaign!! It was the starting point for modern Turkey (Mustapha Kemal came to prominance), and they realised the importance of this site in the development of their country!!
Maybe the authorities here should take note!!!
Surely we must look after our heritage!!!
#137 Joanne.
Try the Battlefield of Sheriffmuir which is targetted by wind developers.
Roads, turbines whatever. Unless the Scots waken up to the threat, it will be business as usual i.e. ignore ancient buildings, landscapes, castles, wild life etc because the council says: "no one can stop it!"
What about what the people say?
Will that be business as usual? Ignore the views of Scots!
Good Ness(?) whit a fuss. Its only bloody rock ... was that said when it first came up before planning ... we should dig up the unpatriotic clots that authorised this .... and .... stone them ... but with rock from at least 400 miles away, that not been genetically modified, handled or seem by anyone from E..land. God do we luv to blame other folk!
Get a grip...if you want to gripe about something important just look at what's happening to the PEOPLE in this country. Want to feel indignant about a few bloody rocks when we have so many people problems ... sorry your sick and we're so badly organised that we can't do your operation but never mind ... look at the braw hill over there! Our schools are going down the toilet, teachers are scared to talk about the +#*+ going on because no-one will support them. But thank God for the free press, without the top quality journalists, founded on ethics and truth keeping in the the big boys in check will never be a problem .. ever.Wake up people and focus on real issues.'Scotsman' - you should be ashamed of yourself!
The last piece of Scottish heritage the English destroyed was the Regiments.
Now Bannockburn.
If the Scots don't bring back the Flower and stop them, the English will eventually eradicate all Scottish heritage, and then all Scottish culture - leaving just one English nation from the Shetlands to the Channel.
Go and chew on a thistle eeyore @ 142.
Last time I looked there were a lot of Scottish MPs sitting in the seats of power at Westminster....... or have you been too busy living in fairyland with the rest of the characters from Winnie the Pooh to notice.
Which Flower do you want the Scots to bring back from the dastardly English btw? Why don't you pop down to one of the garden centres over the border -you don't need your passport.... yet! They have some nice spring flowers at this time of year and you could maybe get some of those to put where the sun don't shine.
Hi eeyore (just in front of where I was yesterday)- why blame us - what's that big, grand, new £430 million building by Holyrood Park for.
Hows about going to stand "just in front of where you could be tomorrow" to see what your elected SMP's are doing about it.
Make them work for their generous salary, housing allowance, indexed link pension, and very very generous car allowance (40p per mile) or are they just taking the usual easy way out by blaming the English ?
Disgusting. Once again, something important and lovely is set to be destroyed in the name of making money. There is no excuse for why permission to quarry at Bannockburn was given. The town where I grew up had a town planning board that couldn't/wouldn't say 'no' and now the lovely fields and woods have been knocked down and paved over and buildings that look like so many others have sprung up in place of the trees and flowers. The developers won't be happy until every single inch of avaliable land has been built upon. Who cares if it's a historical site? That's in the past. Go read a book if you want to remember history. Let's make better use of the land and build a store upon it so you don't have to drive five miles to buy your milk and bread. What's wrong, they say, with destroying a site that has so much meaning? Why bother going a bit to the east and quarrying there? The Bible is right, the love of money is the root of all evil.
I won't be original as regards my comment; I'm also disgusted, because I thought these sorts of things happened here in South America with only 500 years of Spanish history. First they got rid of the true inhabitants of the place...oh yes, someone will argue that there are a few survivors; not many here in Argentina.Sorry to hear that there are chumps who think a lot of rock to improve roads or whatever is more important than a symbol of what my ascendant (from the wrong side of the bed!) and so many other Scots did to move the English back to where they belonged.What is there an independent parliament for? And what are those £500,000 donated going to be used for? Good questions to get a decent answer...
73 Jimbu
Hi Jimbu,Not quite accurate, the Govt here is allowing removal of large quantities of Aboriginal art to make way for development of the North West Gas project.
Defacing Bannockburn is a national disgrace. There has to be enough concerned people to rise up and protest. Surely even the usual student 'rent a crowd' could be mobilised.If this is not stopped it could be the thin end of the wedge. What's next, digging up Drumossie Moor for peat?I have not seen any links to a petition against this, not that I think they do a helluva lot of good but surely worth trying.Come on Scots, this is your land and heritage, get off your erse and protect it.
#141. Petty Lip Service at your Disposal, Troll land
Quote:" But thank God for the free press, without the top quality journalists, founded on ethics and truth keeping in the the big boys in check will never be a problem .. ever."
Wow, the people in troll land really are naive!
What kind of journalists inhabit your land?
Must be the best investigative journalists around. Did they leave Scotland to inhabit your land?
I happened to be at a recent meeting and I read the dross the journalist wrote and I thought : was this guy at the same meeting I was at?
Where is troll land? Btw it sounds as if life is perfect there.
#137 Joanna
Used your link and emailed the National Coordinator--seems to have got there.Also sent one to The Project Officer but got message saying undeliverable--could he be snowed under or fed up!
Wiz
Why in the world can't the Scots Exec expropriate the land for the national interests: if the local council is so daft as to give consents for its destruction? Tourism is a major business in Scotland: and Bannockburn is worth far more as a tourist attraction than as road paving.
"tHE WEE FOLK" who came out of the woods with their ptichforks and spades at the last stages of the Battle of Bannockburn is one of the best recorded 'fairy tales' in Scottish History.It is indeed remarkable that someone of the stature of Fiona Watson should continue to uphold that fable.
The "We folk" were not stragllers or locals with an itch to get in on the battle to save Scotland from Edward 11 and is mighty armoured knights, infantrymen and Welsh crack archers.
King Robert Bruce was realying on and waiting for his great stalwart Angus Og MacDonald Rex Insularum to arrive with a force of similiar Scottish Knights Templar and Highland Gael warriors under this command. Arrving on the second day of the battle, the King put him in charge of his 4th Division the Reserve Division, thus freeing the King to take overall charge of the battle. When he saw Angus arrive with his warriors and knights he rejoiced and hailed him thus "Angus Og my hope is constant in thee". Handing charge of the 4th Division over to Angus, he went to cry out "Now's the time. Now's the hour". The resulatant charge of Angus and his warriors was so fierce the broke the van of the English army and even the highly competent Welsh Archers found the backs of their own allies the English infantryment .
Bruce was heard to shout again "On them! On them they fail!" and on they went into chasing the heavy clad knights and armoured cavalry into the boglands wet with heavy rain. MacDonalds were to the fore. Like the fierce warriors they were renowned for,they did not stop at the mire. They kept chasing and slaughtering the foe on into the nearby village. Read General Phillip Christionson's accunt of "The Battle of Bannockburn". The original copy I have in my library,while an update version may still be available in the Visitor Centre at the Bannockburn site.
This account was sent to the National Trust of
Thats only the HALF of it. with the area flattened the government plan to build cheap housing for 500 pakistani asylum seekers.
You want to get a BIG crowd at Bannockburn? spred the word to all the wee Neds that there's FREE Bucky on site and you'll get thousands.
The USA regularly dynamites, tears down, and destroys the history of this nation as often as your government does. Battlefields put up for sale to whomever will pay the most to develop it into a shopping centre, or cineplex....farms that held either union or rebel forces are torn down to give rich people 'barn wood' for thier houses. The trust saves only a fraction of what NEEDS to be saved. It's a shame,really.oh WAILY WAILY!
So here we stand again Scotland! Letting money and power walk all over our BACKSIDE! They have mowed over enough of our history sites as it is...they will hear my voice...why you ask? My kin has died there on that site, so that I can be here now! Tell the american people that there is a Quick-Mart being built dead center of the LITTLE BIG HORN BATTLEFIELD (in the USA) and see what happens then.
Can we have the perpetrators of this crime exposed? Let's not focus on old enemies but concern ourselves with the traitors within our local government. This hill is not a source of gold or diamonds, nothing really special at all, except for monumental historical importance. Let these stone diggers find their gravel somewhere else! Can some intrepid reporter dig out the councillors/planners who agreed to this travesty.
This is the worst thing that could happen;Please all the towns people stand up for your right to be heard.I live in the states and can't do alot from here;but believe me when the word gets out here in the states you will have the backing of all to help.Long live the History of Scotland. A true Scotsman at heart.Signed Randy Lyons
This threat to your land made sacred by our forebears' blood shed for our freedom could not have come at a better time to remind us of the price we must on occasion pay for that most precious earthly quality good folk prize above all else. We are lucky, because this time it is not soldiers but only greedy conniving fools who want to wipe our memories out. They can be defeated by any of several means that put that land in the hands of the NTS. The SNP can use a small percentage of their recent windfall to buy it for the nation. A worldwide campaign for donations toward the purchase would raise thousands. Petitions can circulate. The higher the percentage of voters in Stirling District who sign, the greater moral effect it has. What will the SNP do for this cause, if elected?Before being elected? It sounds like Labour is hopeless, though I would be happy for them to prove me wrong. Scotland has a rich history of popular movements, many of them quite successful. Perhaps a vigil on the hill will keep attention on this issue. Above all, please remember it is your country and you are its owners. You have an absolute right to decide what happens in it. You now have your own Parliament with power over just such matters. This is one of those times when, if the people lead, the leaders will follow. "Wha for Scotland's King and Law..."
I had the privilege of being at the 650th anniversary of the battle of Bannockburn to see QE1 & 2 unveil the statue of Bruce.
I am shocked that any thinking Scotsman would dig it up for gravel - complete madness.
I visited the website for Murrayshall Quarry Liaison Group:http://www.ecommunitycouncil.org.uk/cambusbarron/
There were only TWO comments yet this article is up to 160 comments. Come on you letter writers, let Murrayshall Quarry Liaison Group know what you think.
Scots Wha' hae do what the women did to protestTrident and other indignities, occupy the bloody place and show a physical protestand occupy the land put your arse where your mouth is or better yet put up or shut upWi Wallace Bled and Scots wha Bruce etc etc..or leave it to the lassies!
Captain (No. 159): You point out one glaring omission in all this protest - why haven't the perpetrators of this crime been exposed? The second major point (totally ignored so far) is that the SNP (or any significant MSPs) haven't gone on record in this matter. I wonder if independence can ever be achieved while Scotland's so-called moral leaders remain silent? They not only fail to lead, but those of us who participated as so-called radicals in the '60s and '70s know that they acted to suppress those of us who tried to alert our countrymen to the likelihood of the movement being neutered. They succeeded in motivating many of us to leave in desperate frustration. It is sad to see the suffering they continue to induce in their people.
Living as I do in a fine example of a New Labour/Corporate-governed, resource-greedy place myself, this story sadly comes as no surprise to me. The distasteful facts however don't make the news any easier to bear. Heritage values and history are bunk to corporations, and past mistakes enshrined in approvals the bolt-hole of beauracrats seeking to cover their backsides. Still, remember, the Poll Tax, there's always civil disobedience
Poor Wallace, wealthy landowners and political elites gave him over to the English those many years ago. No wonder liberals don't want kids to learn history or to protect it. The parallels here are just too close. Perhaps if American news were to do a special?
just read the article about the SNP receiving big funds.
As I posted on that site, they should use some of the money to SAVE BANNOCKBURN.
If they don't, they are not worthy of the title SNP.
When I was planning a trip to Scotland for my mother in 1992 we focused on sites of historical significance and especially those with connections to family connections. Doing the research we found repeatedly that the site of the battle at Bannockburn was not well documented and that there was significant doubt as to the identity of several of the features and particularly Gilles Hill.
That being said it makes little difference whether Gilles Hill is the place from behind which the samll folk emerged. It now stands for that feature of the landscape because tradition has made it so.
The country that my Scots forfathers adopted is engaged in the same kind of controversy as it weighs economic development against historical preservation of the battlefields of the American Civil War.
The resolution is most often a compromise, but that hardly seems possible in this case. It is a matter of values - family values. I suggest that it is Scots' values that must be balanced and not coporate greed.
How can the people of Scotland stand by and watch an important part of their history disappear? Unforgiveable, this place should be a Country's treasure, forever a historic monument or park like the US has done with battle faught on US ground. No excuses to satnd by Scots and watch your history disappear. Malcolm Wallace asked Robert the Bruce to take over Willaim Wallace's army after John Wallace had been captured and executed. Robert the Bruce may not have help William when he needed it, but he did take up the sword when no one else would. He's as much a Wallace as anyone. William Wallace would want you to preserve this landmark site with all your efforts people of Scotland, gets some balls and say no. They can get their damn rock somewhere else. Be Brave Scotland, be brave.
Willaim Wallace
#150 Weeshooie 1
Was a wee bit worried when you finished that with 'Luv"
Did you see my post yesterday about The Veterinar Times?
#172 Weeshooie 1
It certainly has and so it should. It's hard to believe that something like this could even be suggested, never mind allowed to proceed.
Re the post I mentioned. If you have a friendly Vet who subscribes to 'The Veterinary Record' try to borrow the 20th January 2007 edition.It has an article about reproduction of 'Dux Magnus gentis venteris saginati' which translated means 'Great Chieftain o' the Puddin race'
Its really funny. I got my copy from a friend who is a Vet.Just been fishing, no luck. Met a guy on the beach from Woolongong-is that how you spell it?
cheers
This is unbelievable! Well perhaps not so unbelievable but absolutely shocking ... so next will be a certain statue near a certain station because the space could be utilised for something else and the materials could be used for something else?
How full is St Giles on Sundays? They'd better watch out, it could happen to it too. And the land that the castle's built on at Stirling could be used for many low cost houses for the poor!
Please please do not let this go ahead.
Although I now live in England, I am Scottish and lived in the Stirling area for 18 years. I always think that too much is made of the Battle of Bannockburn in Scotland, especially to whip up anti English sentiment. I have lived in England in the past and never encountered any anti Scottish jibs. I am embarassed by the way some Scots act towards the English. Having said that I do think that the battle site should be preserved as it is an important part of our history.
With regard to post 7 about the National Trust I wouldn't place much faith in them now. I recently visited Ossians Hall at the Hermitage in Dunkeld. where the NTS has renovated the hall and made a pigs ear of it. You can see their work here:http://www.europealacarte.co.uk/blog/?p=236
Support the Scottish Knights Templar in protecting our historical sites:
http://www.scottishknightstemplar.org/
Is it normal to have planning consent which is valid for 25 years?
What are these people thinking ? I have lived in Australia for 35 years, Istill call Edinburgh home , my last time in Scotland was in 1992 , I visited Stirling Castle , and Banockburn , what beautful and historical sites , how could anyone even consider desecrating these sites ! Shame on them !!!!!!
#179 Andy
How right you are.Like you, I have been here for 35 years. I go home every few years and while there are changes that I don't particularly like, it's my home and the thought of this type of desecration make me shudder in disbelief.There has got to be some way of stopping it but the people have to get off their bums and protest.
It has been suggested (possibly mischief making) that the SNP use the funds from the Stagecoach boss to "save " the field.
Those funds were given to redress the balance of funding and try to create a level playing field betwen the parties.They cannot be used for the purpose other than which they were intended.plus there is an election looming in a few weeks.This suhhestion irrespective of why given is a non starter.Its up to you the people to stop this.!
I suspect that a few days before May 3rd the Labour group will myseriously gallop to the rescue and save this .If you dont smell a rat there go and see the doctor Your nose has been cut off!Its obviously stage managed if that happens.
The people have one choice now
SUPPORT SCOTLAND or oppose her Theres NOTHING in betwen.
ARE WE A NATION? Answers on a ballot paper please on May 3rd
Its a slow news day obviously. Pathetic little quotes at the end of a story to stir all you dossers into buying a copy.
Pathetic and childish from the scotsman. This article carefully avoids saying anthing to be quite frank.
"There has long been confusion as to the exact location of the battle (see battle map above). This is probably due to the fact that much of the site is now covered with the present village of Bannockburn, where one would find it harder to envisage a medieval battle. "
I have never been to scotland. My great great grandfather came from glascow as a stone mason.I have seen plenty of pictures of scotland and there seemed to be plenty of stone.I have seen the movie Brave Heart.They did not fight to have history erased.They fought for the people of scotland.Is this a british operation.Of all scotland they narrow down to this site pathetic.
I'm so glad that I got to visit the site last time I was is Scotland. It sounds like it won't be worth see in a few more years. What a shame for local folks and tourists.
HEY McConnell how does it feel to be a SCOURGE.
scottish born and bred 185 commnts? scotsman paper get off your ass and make this front page headlines ask the people in scotland to petition against this farce ( m0ney maker 4 council probably full of foreniers anyway) also print or show all these comments from people who are abroad i,e working or living abroad wake up too ur selfs councils nowadays are only out 4 money and if they are not locals with a pride of there ancestory vote tham out ( WHY U VOTED THEM IN BEGERS BELIEF)
MAKE THAT 188 NOW INCLUDING MINE ??
I'm not in favour of this work, but I'm not sure just how important this particular hill is but I'm guessing that a major part of the site will remain intact (in fact I'd not be surprised if nobody would've even realised the hill was an important part of the overall site if it hadn't been pointed out). what DOES amuse me is that the same people who seem to live on a soapbox complaining about the 'socialist nanny state', 'too much legislation', 'too many taxes' etc etc are now realising how important legislation can be (although I'm sure they'll forget that when the next conspiracy theory comes along).
Unfortunately, the corporate world always finds a way to buy the public servants charged with defending and preserving their nation's heritage and history. We have the same problem here in the U.S. So many of our Civil War battlefields have been gobbled up by industry and commercial businesses. Perhaps I'm in no position to speak, considering the tyrant of a president the people in my country have allowed to take power, but the truth of the matter is universal...until the public stands up to their leaders and demand accountablility, corporations and big business will hold sway.
How very, very sad that politicians don't think this site is worth keeping. I've visited this site often and do feel that history is worth keeping. It's not creating a museum living environment but keeping an area as part of history. To say nothing can be done about it now is simply a lot of rubbish. If there is enough backlash from this, I'm sure something could be done. Greed, greed, greed.
As Mason Stone (#192) pointed out, this is not just a Scottish thing. This is happening all over.
The CNN web site, over the weekend, put out an article about the Civil War Preservation Trust's efforts to save endangered American Civil War battlefield sites. About two hours from where I live is a site that's losing important land to a quarry. Gettysburg, probably the best protected of the battlefields, had to fight to stop a casino being built nearby and is in danger of losing land to housing development. Harper's Ferry is in danger due to land development, too, which is a major problem on several battlefields.
In Japan, several important battlefields have been overrun mostly due to apathy.
In the case of Bannockburn, the fault lies with the council in 1982, who gave the companies permission to quarry the hill. I don't know what legal recourse there can be.
Local people can have an effect on these things. After years of selling bits of the battlefield at Franklin, Tennessee, the city council went too far when they built a library on an important section of the old battlefield (and hauled away the excavated material to a protected site; some suggest that they were worried some of the ground might contain remains). A pro-preservation council was elected, throwing out the old town council.
Changes can be made, but it requires people to make their voices heard and hold their politicians accountable.
Your government micromanages you to the point where you can not smoke in a pub, but is willing to let this despoiling of your heritage occur?
Lots written here. But you realize none of the pol's. will read this. That's what they have assistants for. And be assured the assistants will not inform them of this dissent. Reminds me of the Taliban blowing up the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan. Every body complained but no one did anything. BUT... something can be done in Scotland, the complaints can be heard. Write, phone, demonstrate in front of the homes of the pols. Go for it
If this isn't a wake -up call to a vote for SNP then you are all doomed.
Can you imagine this happening at Vimy Ridge or Gettysburg?
Time to get off the computer and in front of the Quarry Gates
Most postwar buildings in Edinburgh - and certainly in Stirling - would provide first-class rubble for roadbuilding AND an excellent opportunity for real architects (are there still any around?) to build something less disgraceful than these monuments to idiocy, philistinism and political corruption...
#153: Many thanks for speaking up for the MacDonalds of the Isles, and Angus Og in particular. Too often overlooked.
Over two hundred comments are well worth further news from The Scotsman, plus a commentary of sooo many people from all parts of the world giving their disgusted opinion on this business.People of the newspaper, see and keep the news on the front page, amybe in this way some decent politician (if there's any one left), can see that people's desires are sometimes worth listening to!
Gentlemen:Please do not destroy this magnificient monument to freedom. To destroy this place would be like we in Texas destroying the Alamo. Your decision now to destroy your national treasure can not be undone later.Thanks for this opportunity to give my opinion.
It was stated that the quarry product was whinstone for road making.
Where is the executive buiding bl**dy roads? There's only been a couple of road built equivalent to 5% of the road tax rip-off that GO ANYWHERE in Scotland the last 30 years.
There are two possible answers1. An election is due and some roads will be repaired soon.2. The politicians' driveways to their big hooses are to be repaired.
The executive could save Bannockburn and get all the stone they need from the new tunnel under the Forth that's 10 years overdue.
Scots Wha Hae,Don't let this happen. My ancestors fought at Bannockburn and Culloden. We are Frasers, we are Scots. This is our history, our heitage, once gone never retrieved.This must be stopped, no matter the cost or sacrifice.
