Wake up all you un believers!

Independence for Scotland - it’s the profitable way forward!

Blah Blah Blah go all the ranting Unionists in the pathetic attempt to decry any INDEPENDENT thought!!!

Never mind just a countries!

Watch them pathetically rant on!

Everyone gone to bed tionite?

I’ll be back as Killiecrankie for I am sure to be MODERATED (BANNED) by the morra!

no Jean Brodie, some of us are still up reading the posts! This is a magnificent boost to the SNP, and on the back of the 3p tax story from yesterday, this couldn't be better.

It's time Scotland rejoined the rest of the world and became a normal nation once again with control of our own economy.

I'd love to hear Labour try to spin themselves out of this one...come on Scotland, it's time to bite the bullet and have confidence in our own abilities...independence is the ONLY way things will improve in our country...vote for it!

Miss Jean Brodie go to bed. It is time:>)

The most significant statement yet from a man who knows what he is talking about.

"Key quote
"It's difficult to forecast the future, but I see no circumstance where independence would be a serious [economic] disadvantage" - Sir George Mathewson."

Well said Sir. You are a star.

This man is supporting what Alex Salmond has been saying for decades - we CAN and SHOULD become an independant nation. Can you imagine if we had all turned out in force at the devolution vote? Remember the 40% rule imposed on the result? When we get our referendum for independance, we simply must turn out and vote - this is so exciting - I for one can hardly wait to be living in a proud and succesful nation.

Thank god someone with a bit of credibility has at last talked sense.

I am not an SNP supporter at heart but they will be getting my vote in May.

I am sick fed up with Brown, Reid, Blair, Alexander and McConnell feeding us complete keech about Scotland and its (lack of) ability to make its own decisions. As this guy points out, their language and reasoning is absurd and reeks of self-interest.

The Scottish Parliament is a powerful institution that had been made into a complete waste of time by McConnell, Wallace and Stephens complete lack of ambition and vision for Scotland.

Whether we remain in the union or go it alone, one thing is for sure. WE NEED A CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT.

For those of you who intend to stick with the Lib/Lab disaster, I have only one thing to say. Please, please, wake up - your country needs you on May 3rd!

It's a big coup no doubt about it!

Now on to Glasgow!

See you all there!

48 days to go until...

IT'S TIME...

Scotland can stand alone
There are several reasons why I shall vote SNP at the forthcoming Scottish election, the foremost of which is that I believe the SNP offers Scotland the best chance of escaping from the dependency culture that is currently all-pervasive at every level in Scottish life.

I do not share the fear of independence which is currently being fostered by those who have most to lose by a change in the status quo and those who see Scotland as a source of safe seats, thus guaranteeing their rule over the United Kingdom.

In addition, comments that have been made on access to the English market are patently absurd. Currently, a huge proportion of the English financial services market is supplied by companies in the United States, in Holland, Germany, Ireland, etc.

Globalisation is here and Scottish companies have embraced it and indeed have benefited from it.

Finally, our votes will choose the new First Minister of a parliament which has consistently disappointed since its creation, partially due to the lack of high-quality leadership. The outstanding candidate must be the SNP leader, Alex Salmond.

(SIR) GEORGE MATHEWSON, Ballintrium, Perthshire

Sounds like he very badly wants to get rid of Jack McConnell and that really is the main issue in this election.

Time to grow up Scotland and take your rightful place in the community of nations and not as a child through Westminster. Right now you have less autonomy than a Canadian province, less self government than Saskatchewen. How proud does that make you feel? Jock McConnel and his old labour council cronies are long past their sell by date and a national embarrassment. The rest of the world views the Scots as a proud, ancient, but progressive people. Be proud of your nation and take your proper place in the world. Or does a prophet like the honourable banker have no honour in his own land? Scots have lots to be proud of, being underlings is not one of them.

Please, Please, go Independent Scotland. it will save the remaining, British tax payers a great deal of money!
As things stand, when I get old, I will move to Scotland to receive free health care and old age institutional care. My children will get free University education and if I get ill I will receive the best medication, no expense spared! Furthermore, it is still considered OK if you are patriotic to fly the flag and you are not classed as racist if you object to Foreigners like many English do! New Labour propaganda has not yet taken a hold north of the border. But beware! If this New Labour lot, totally govern you, like they do us, you might as well emigrate to the New World.
You lot make me laugh, you have it easy!

Sorry #15 but the rest of the world has not heard anything about Scotland for the last 300 years. During this period, the Scots have been screwed by their own elite looking after their own interests and not by the English. One thing they will have to do is to get competent men and women in Holyrood who have business and international experience. This may be a bigger problem than you think. But there is no way Scotland will survive if the procedures and personel that ran Holyrood construction are typical of the future. Remember 40 million pounds blew up to 541 million pounds using open ended contracts and politicals who had never been in charge of building a dolls house.

I'm far away from Scotland but it does appear that is the ‘movers and shakers’ that back independence such as
Crawford Beveridge, Sir Tom Farmer and now Sir George Mathewson - not the ‘quakers’ -with a small q).
Those Unionist like David Murray remind me of the 'doomers and gloomers' in New Zealand when the UK joined the Common market (as it was then). NZ was they said 'stuffed' without the British market, we might as well lie down and await starvation and death. Instead NZ matured and found new markets., ,wrote its own foreign policies (important for Scotland) and is ahead of the UK and certainly Scotland in the Quality of Life rankings.
In another forum the ‘Usual Suspects’ are going on about taxes and the economy and etc., etc., but how many nations sought sovereignty solely because of economic reasons. That comes later when the people have self-government and decide what type of economic system they wish and more importantly which nations in the World they wish to deal with and in what way.

16: It's we Scots that keep the rest of the UK going mate.
Media 1 where are you????

By making his view public, Sir Mathewson is helping to make the truth known. It takes this sort of boldness to help allay the fears in people instilled by unionists like Blair, Brown, and McConnell. Those men know nothing about love of one's country. Alex Salmond is the only candidate with a genuine love for Scotland and her people. I am looking forward to a new era in Scotland. Here's to the future! - SimplyScottish.com

#17 williamx: Just to let you know that you have some of your facts wrong.

The Scottish Parliament construction contract was sourced and set up by a Westminster department, with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown being fully involved in the decision.

They "lied" about the cost to the taxpayer. At the time that the contract was signed, you could not get an office building constructed in Edinburgh for less than £100m. And yet these clowns came up with £40m.

The construction costs for the Parliament were shocking, but they are a direct result of Westminster decisions. As much as I think that our current MSPs are a sorry bunch, you cannot blame them for that whole episode.

Blair, Brown and Dewar were the ones who @rsed that one up. Their lies were politically motivated, just the same as Blair and Brown are lying to people now about the consequences of an SNP vote.

7. Freeman Stand “ It's time Scotland rejoined the rest of the world and became a normal nation once again with control of our own economy.”
Apologies for repeating your post but it so right it saved me typing it up myself.
For those of us, part the Scottish Diaspora - it is the normality of sovereignty that has put so many (apart from a few SA friends) firmly in the camp of Scottish independence. It is not emotive patriotism, definitely not a Hollywood movie starring Mel Gibson of which we get accused on so many forums, it is simply the ‘NORM’ to be indeopendent.
For any nation not being in control of its own economic responsibility and not wishing to have a voice at the United nations is really ‘weird’. Many nations suffered and sacrificed in blood to gain their independence (note not freedom - as no one claims Scots are not socially free) but the Scots have only to go to the polls and vote.
Sadly no matter what you, Freeman Stand, and all the other ‘independence‘ supporters debate there are few that actualy hear our words or even care. These non-voters are the really scourge of Democracy rivalled only by the non-thinkers.
BTW ‘non-thinker‘ epithet dose not include those Unionist who although in my opinionare not ambitious nor forward thinking for their country at least debate and put forward arguments; -‘non-thinker‘ is one who has no interest in debate and either does not vote or votes inter-generationally as their family has always voted.

21. Robbie, NZ
Can't believe the Tyyyposss.
At least most poster are snoring at this time.

22. Robbie, NZ
Went before I'd finished .
Can't believe the Tyyyposss.
At least most poster are snoring at this time and won't be reading this.
Perhaps I should persevere with 'Dragon' voice recognition and give up typing.

For the first time in a long time it sounds and feels like Scots are regaining their inherent self-confidence that has so long been repressed for generations by pro-unionist propaganda. At last Scotland appears to be awaking to the truism that it is not as we have been told continually an inferior country amongst nation states which uniquely is incapable of governing itself, but is just as capable to successfully run it's own affairs as any other small sovereign nation. It will be so much more positive for the Scottish nation to focus on how we make independence work as efficiently as possible rather than dealing with negative whining of
the unionist as to how we are uniquely incapable of managing our own affairs.

Time for Scotland to regain it's rightful place a fully fledged sovereign nation.

The tide could well be turning but there is a long way to go yet. Still Labour is pretty well running themselves out of power as fast as they can possibly go. With the latest robbery of Scottish lottery money going to London the arguments for independence are proved correct again and again and ............

I was just going to bed! But I could not help commenting on some of you sad Scottish people. Most of the comments have been from ex-colonials from Canada or NZ or even America. They do not know New Labour! propaganda. You, Scots are so typical, arrogance and ignorance and 'Chip on your shoulder' that the Scots are renowned for.
Everyone has ignored my comments about England, and the fact that we really want rid of ye! Because you are so full up your own ar..s.es! That's why soft lads we English had dominance on you! ,You could not agree amongst yourselves. I know my history! Shame on the lot of you, you can just about govern a highland brewery without causing a kick off! But without English subsidies you will be lost and you know it!
Become Independent Scotland, we in England are all behind you, it will save us money!

Ah, here we go again ...

From Nirvana sometimes known as Milton Keynes, Steve [26] reiterates the tired petulance of saying, "We English, have brought you, Scotland, to maturity and good health, and are delighted to see you leave to take your place in the world making your own decisions - but hey, you'll never ever survive without us.

Bizzare psychology.

When a chairman of the Royal Bank of Scotland states the opposite, who are we to argue? If any company knows how to generate growth, make serious profits and stand on equal terms with other financial institutions it's the Royal Bank of Scotland. Any day now he'll be telling us how we can invest in and support English companies.

Good man.

#25 David MacVicar: I am not sure that there is that long to go. Either Scots will do it for themselves or else the dopey English will waken up to things when they get Gordon and Dr John as their next leaders.

The English are a sad lot in that they are more concerned with failing at cricket, rugby and football than they are about their own countries future. Recently, 20 times more English folk signed a petition asking Tony Blair to stand on his head and juggle ice cream compared to one that asked him to scrap the Barnett formula for sponging Scots.

Scotland, England and Ireland have lots in common, but when it comes to social issues, ethics and morals, we are poles apart.

Scotland also has lots of things that England wants, and I am not talking about oil.

But it is time for an amicable split and slowly but surely people are wakening up to that fact. Either we do it ourselves the way we want or we wait for the English to start with there world famous xenophobia when Gordon Brown is elected.

The Union has done wonders for the English and there is no doubt that, in days gone by, it has also benefited Scotland. But when something comes to a natural end, it is best to let it die gracefully as opposed to keeping it in a vegetative state on life support.

It's time for Scotland and all those who have chosen to make their home here.

Sorry for my typos and bad grammar. It's just my way...

Why is the BBC not carrying this story on their website? Is a business leader of world class status, slagging off the intellect of the Chancellor and Prime Minister-in-waiting not headline news?

Good post, Colin. Incidentally, my home is still in Edinburgh as well work in Los Angeles, Caledonia and California, if you like. Nce to see streets in Los Angeles with names such as, Edinburgh Avenue, and Glasgow Boulevard. And a certain John Muir is venerated here ....

Our American cousins don't have a problem with Scots ingenuity and achievement ....

Rise now and be a Nation again

It's in our hands on May 3rd, to get this moving and release Scotland from the oppression of Blair, Brown, Reid and their fellow "Scots" turncoats who prefer to take the English Queens shilling and tell us what to do from afar.

Anyone that believes politicians run things is an idiot ......go back to sleep or do some research http://www.scottwebb.co.uk/15.html :)

#31 Rulesbutnotrulers: "look what happened to Zimbabwe"

Are you comparing Alex Salmond to Robert Mugabe? LOL - You crack me up.

That is a class posting!

Perhaps if people were able to give a well thought out reasoned argument for staying under Westminster rule then people would not be turning to the SNP in the numbers that they are.

Sadly, as your post shows, that reasoned argument just does not exist. If you are not already doing so, might I suggest that you consider writing speeches for Dr John "I'm a Fascist" Reid. Remember his "border guards at Gretna" routine. Your Zimbabwe joke would site nicely alongside that.

When the man who signs the banknotes says "It's Time", it's time.

Scotland is a wealthy nation but the economic case has always been muddied by the Unionists! The argument no longer has anything to do with the economic case, and is now purely political! Sooner, or later, the Scots will take the final step towards independence. and Unionists are very naive if they seriously believe the people behind the movement for a sovereign Scottish State are simply going to pack up and go home! The yearning for Great Britain no longer exits as the present unitary state
is no longer a significant world power and it is no longer fit for Scotland's purpose in the 21st Century! This has has been proved by recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan and merely proves it is just another client state of the U.S. Since Devolution, the U.K. is now a quasi-federal state in everything but constitutional name! No doubt Westminster will do everything within its power to prevent Scotland seceding! After the generation who lived through the fag-end of the Empire and the Second World War pass on, living memory will cease to have any effect and some form of con/federal arrangement will be the next step? In all likelyhood Scotland and England will revert to their original soveregn status? Lachie Todd.

#35 Harriet. It's well past time.

#31 Your comments about Mugabe merely serve to illustrate the level of your intellect, and your single digit IQ.

#26 It's people like you that give the English a bad name.

Saor Alba.

Good to hear that there are some sensible bankers oot there.
As for the rest of the *ankers - let's show them what Scotland can do on her own!!
Roll on May

I think there is no doubt that Scotland can stand on her two feet.

The fear, I would guess, in business leaders minds is any attempt to form the People's Independent Republic of Caledonia. Thankfully, at least outside handoutsville in Glasgow, it seems to be accepted that socialism is NOT the way forward.

So much for Scotland being to the left of England!

goanyerselbigman!

Comment@37 Guga, hehe nice one mate :)

Great news, let's see Blair and Brown lie their way out of this one.
When the day comes for Independence, can we tear down the statue of Donald Dewar " father of the nation"...my arse!! that blights Buchanan St in Glasgow.

So...will I need a passport to go to England? WIll GB still have an Olympic team with Scots in it? Bovvered.

Interesting to keep an eye on this website http://www.fraser.strath.ac.uk/fai.php?page_id=1 Fraser of Allander Institute for Research on the Scottish Economy.

It WILL happen with VOTES. The practical way forward at this time is to 'get out there' and canvass. Anyone can do it and it is easy. Minimum Input - You don't have to talk to anyone, you don't have to broadcast your opinions - It's as simple as posting an 'election flyer' through anyone's letterbox. It's time.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - is all I can say to all those pathetic saddos that have been spouting all the business is terrified of indpendence p!sh on this board since God knows when. Let's hear it from you today, G dundy, Upbeat, Mari M.............

Sir George Matewson is arguably the biggest scalp in the business community in Scotland.
This is not good news for the SNP.
This is the hand of God!

The Unionists cannot possibly produce anyone who even begins to rank alongside the man who turned RBS into a global brand name,and made them the most successful Scottish company ever.

The Unionists will not admit it because they play to an agenda which personally benefits them,but the case for independence is overwhelming(but then it always was) ,its just that we have too many eejits in Scotland who learn everything the hard way.

43

The SNP has never wanted border posts with England. Norway and Sweden have a perfectly happy arrangement where they continue to travel back and forward as they did before Norway became independent.
If we are remaining in the EU (and we have to declare that we are leaving before we can leave) then border posts between EU countries and customs checks are minimal (if any) anyway
The Labour Party put this scaremongering about.Its complete garbage.
You have two choices
a) Advertise the fact that you believe any crap the Labour Party tells you
OR
b) Vote SNP

Your choice!

Ha! To hear all you dreamers yafflin' on about how great "it's gonna be" when you don't know the half of it yet makes me laugh! Independence means you wont have anyone else to blame when it goes t1ts up - can you take that? Well, can ya? More toffs in funny claes, more of your taxes going to spongers in suits, less going to the ordinary man. Nationalism isn't always good for the ordinary people and the Zimbabwe comparison is very valid - IT IS, ya numpties! Partition a wee bit o' your tiny brains off and mull that thought over.

And when a bloke like this one sees value in independence, he's thinking of himself and not Scotland. He's no dreamer - he's a tartan buccaneer and after independence, him and his awfy mates will have more of the cake than ever!

Wake up you Bravehearts! God save you from what you want!

26
You should read the Proffessor Gavin McCrone Report . from 30 years ago,not to be confused with a more recent report of a similar name into teaching
When Scotland leaves the UK guess who is going to get the economics lesson of a lifetime?
Has it ever entered your thick Anglo Saxon skull that maybe the UK government told Scotland a pack of lies and had to tell you the same also.No? Well that just shows how thick you are !
IT HAPPENED and its a fact of history.You dont even begin to know what you are talking about sunshine!

Comment@48 IanB, the last time i heard a rant like that......the guy was sitting in a clock tower :)

48
The Zimbabwe comparison.
There is no comparison !

University lecturers teachers business leaders and academics back independence in increasing numbers.
What qualifies you to call others a numpty I ask?
Do you have a degree in Economics or a comparable discipline?
Sounds to me like you have a membership of the Labour Party which is a disqualification in my opinion!

#48 - IanB ... Did you really get up early to post that "warning?" You sound like a minister that's lost his congregation. "God save you from ... "

31 - Rules....

You DO wear a bunnet when you're driving!

TOO MANY RANTS AND RAVES, TOO MUCH CANT AND POLITICAL HYSTERIA...THE QUESTION OF INDPENDENCE SHOULD ONLY BE DECIDED BY ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND IN A REFERENDUM, THE ONLY QUALIFICATION FOR VOTING SHOULD BE THAT VOTERS MUST BE ACTUALLY RESIDENT AND LIVE AT LEAST 40 WEEKS OF THE YEAR IN SCOTLAND.
MANY PEOPLE WERE FORCED TO THE WALL BY SIR GEORGE WHEN HE TOOK OVER THE ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND, GOT RID OF MANY MANAGERS OVER THE AGE OF 45, BROUGHT IN COMPUTER 'SCORING', DID AWAY WITH 'TRADITIONAL' SCOTTISH BANKING ...AND PROMISED THE SHAREHOLDERS A SUBSTANTIAL INCREASE IN DIVIDEND YEAR ON YEAR WHILE THOUSANDS OF SMALL BUSINESSES WENT TO THE WALL...I'd rather NOT have the man making 'political promises' thanks all the same.

David BA - "Live at least 40 weeks of the year in Scotland," Who are you to narrow the voting constituency - go take a hike!

I like the Scotsman bit at the end...

'To be fair, the SNP has also scored several significant hits of its own.'

To be fair, indeed!

7
You said something which Ive not heard used before ......................and you are correct!

A NORMAL NATION (again)

Thats exactly whats wrong.WE ARE ABNORMAL!

Nobody in their right mind wants to be ruled by colonialism or imperialism.

What does that make the UNIONISTS I wonder?

Well it is the best news SNP supporters have had yet, so i won't send along a cloud to rain on your parade. I'm happy for all you supporters who want indepedance but would ask one thing of you, remember not everyone shares your opinion so try and be tolerant of others views. Scotland is a cosmopolitan country now, not just full of Scots clambering for independance and the biggest obstruction to getting what you want is and always will be voter apathy. I will be voting SNP for the first time but i do not like Salmond and never will so my vote is more of a protest vote but i suspect i am not alone.So show some humility to others not of your persuation because if we get idependance we have all got to live together.

At long last... A great many thanks to Sir George!

A dyed-in-the-wool neo-liberal supporting a self-styled left-of-centre party! Things could not now be any clearer.

More curious still: was it me, or did Alex Salmond say during the 22 February Question Time programme on the Beeb that the economic case either for or against independence was neither here nor there, and that what mattered was that Scotland was a nation and therefore needed a state, full stop?

It's time indeed ... we addressed this crucial question (and its vital implications for the European connection, among others). Just in case the SNP's notions of nationhood are as slippery as their economic "vision"...

with this mccrone report, wii scotland be able to take the westminsret government to the world court to claim exemplarydamages for lying to the p[eople of scotland as regards oil revenues
#16 steve milton keynes dont forget that you will then need to subsidize the london olympics all on your own

Sir George has hit the nail on the head. Whatever one may think of the SNP, a massive victory for the party on 3 May is the only way of moving Scotland forward. I want to see Alex Salmond firmly installed in Bute House as First Minister. That is the first essential.

Some of us are already looking forward beyond 3 May to the day when the London parties disappear from the Scottish political spectrum. That is the reason we founded the Scottish Enterprise Party (SEP) to take their place, and to cover a part of the spectrum where a gap is presently disenfranchising up to a quarter of the electorate. We are keeping out of the SNP's way as far as possible this time round, but still hope to have one or two MSPs elected on the list vote as a basis for future development.

Sir George has conclusively exploded the myth that independence would have an adverse effect on the Scottish economy. The other myth that has been assiduously propagated by vested interests is that Scotland is financially dependent on London handouts. The SNP has already done a creditable job of demolishing that myth.

Now the fledgling SEP has carried out an exhaustive exercise in forensic accountancy that has revealed a Scottish surplus on balance of accounts with the rest of the UK of such a magnitude that the prospect of losing it must be ringing all the alarm bells in London. The analysis will shortly be posted in full on the SEP's website (still under development) under the title of The Great Deception. We intend to continue in this vein. Please see:
www.scottishenterpriseparty.org
info@scottishenterpriseparty.org

48. IanB, Edinburgh

No the Zimbabwe comparison is not valid.
Tell you why.

They ain't got oil, if they did, the UK, US Uncle Tom Cobbly and all would be falling over themselves to 'save' them.

Westminster is dead keen to save Scotland, in the same way she's so desperate to save Iraq.

We do have oil.

I can't wait to see what garbage Labour come up with to try to talk their way out of this one!

I sense a sea change in Scotland. The mood of the people is now that independence is the natural state and that we should move to achieve that. The unionist propaganda is now seen as lies (McCrone report on oil revenues, anyone, for a start?) and the impetus has become virtually unstoppable.

When the best Labour can do is proclaim support from David Murray and Willie Haughey, two men associated with the cancer on society that is the Old Firm, you know they have run out of valid arguments. If they ever actually had any.

Alex Salmond as First Minister. What a depressing thought, even worse than Jack continuing. Judging by the opinion polls and what has happened at past elections it is not going to happen.

"There are several reasons why I shall vote SNP at the forthcoming Scottish election, the foremost of which is that I believe the SNP offers Scotland the best chance of escaping from the dependency culture that is currently all-pervasive at every level in Scottish life."

Given that the SNP are a left wing party I would be interested to know how they plan to help people escape this dependence culture? I suspect that, given their record of voting with Labour on most social issues, it'll just be more of the same but with King Alex instead pushing the same failed policies down our throats as we've seen from all the other left wing parties since devolution.

If this proves one thing, it's that Alex Salmond is as good a snake-oil seller to the heads of industry as Tony Blair, telling them what they want to hear and then never delivering.

And it's funny how it's suddenly OK to like RBS when I suspect that loads of you were decrying 'immoral profits' and all that not so long ago.

At last a positive statement by the head of a banking institution ..... and these guys WOULD know if we are economically sound enough to stand as an Independent nation.

As Scaramouche has said, we are not natural SNP supporters in our household, but we're fed up with McConnell, New Labour intransigence, and a coalition we did not vote for. We don't want failed Tories or mouthy "socialists" who couldn't even lie in bed straight. Nor do we want to stay in a Union that has treated us Scots as a region of North Britain. Which is why we're voting SNP and Independence .... and we need businessmen like Sir George to fully back the will of the Scottish people (and residents from elsewhere with a vote) should the majority decide to take the road to Independence.

"Tog" What sort of anonymous web name is that? No abode either?

Come in Number 65 - your time is up!

Stephen B - Land of Hysteria - Sheesh.

#17
' Remember 40 million pounds blew up to 541 million pounds using open ended contracts and politicals who had never been in charge of building a dolls house'
Actually, this was the result of Westminster planning in setting things up before Holyrood was up and running, and London is still at it - Olympics 2012 anyone!

By the way ..... Scaramouche is still barred from the forum! It's a disgrace (he says). His many fans (?) are being denied his awesome talent (?) he says!

I could go and put a pillow over the silly old sausage's head you know ..... you have no idea how often I have been tempted in recent days!! Imagine living with a Victor Meldrew who thinks he is a singing diva!!!!

RBS might be a nice metaphor for what a Scotland, with her headquarters in Scotland run for the benefit of Scotland, could achieve.

I remember the Royal Bank of Scotland when it was 'too wee, too poor and too stupid' to compete with the 'Big Four' based in London.

Foreigners were poised to 'get her'.

RBR, 20 years ago, now look at her.

How many more 'Sir Georges' are ready and waiting in the wings to take the stage when Scotland resumes her proper place in the world community?

69 - Notice you didn't actually respond to any of the points though...

How does a lefty party reduce dependency? It's as likely as a right wing party nationalising industry.

#66. AM, Glasgow

Come on then, you keep telling us how easy it is..

Fire away!

I'm fairly new to these columns but it doesn't take much to spot the argument against independence is generally pitiful. It takes three distinct lines:

Yous are awe doomed! (Scots)
You'll never survive without us. (English)
I like things as they are. (Mr Invisible - sssh! You didn't see me, okay?)

It's time to stoke the fire.

Poll Blow for Bliar

http://www.snp.org/press-releases/2006/poll-blow-for-blair/

Not one post on this thread challenging what the man has said.

That is the real problem for Labour - they have been caught out telling lies yet again.

They are morally, practically and ideologically bankrupt.

The SNP is the only positive option for Scotland

26. steveg9, Milton Keynes, England
“I could not help commenting on some of you sad Scottish people. Most of the comments have been from ex-colonials from Canada or NZ or even America.”
Bit of an oxymoron there ‘sad Scottish people’ - ex.-colonials from Canada or NZ or even America’
Scottish ‘colonials’ or exiles are seldom sad. Not in their own lives; only in what they see in the lives of the citizens of their homeland. Scottish emigrants (not temporary ex-pats) prosper in their adopted home countries and so often take top decisive positions. They are aware of the lack of initiative decisions allowable in Scotland and we wearily shake our heads as the Scots continually refused to join the sovereign nations of the World.
‘steveg9,’ there is no anti- English feeling among SNP supporters (most have English relatives) but the Union has never been a ‘biggie’ or actually understood amongst the majority of English people and independence for Scotland would not be consider page two news in England. The UK, Great Britain and England have been not only synonymous in the southern province but throughout the world and never has the special circumstances of the Union ever been explained either to the youth of England through the educational system or by ‘our ‘ Government ‘ from Westminster. Please don’t consider Scottish sovereignty as a challenge or any of the other things you mentioned, “arrogance and ignorance and 'Chip on your shoulder' that the Scots are renowned for.”
Hey! I sincerely believe Scotland, England, Wales and New Zealand will understand each other better and have improved relationships when we are all independent - not just little remote new Zealand which at present is the only one completely sovereign or tell me is England?

Changing your number and address Stephen [73] won't help you avoid detection. And who told you the SNP was a Left party?

YYYEEEEESSSSSSS......!!!!

Back of the net.....!!!!!!!!

The English only want to keep Scotland in the UK for her oil and if you adjusted their figures regarding contribution because of oil it is very clear Scotland takes out less than it really puts in. Labour keeps the English going and has never served Scotland ever. They are lackies totally devoid of any ideas for the good of the Scottish Nation and its people. Boot the lot of them out and send them south over the border to take their corrupt ways and bankrupt ideas with them.

We can do anything if we have the will especially if we are not held down by a London only economic policy

What a banker.

What a contrast between the achievements of Sir George Mathewson as chairman of the Royal Bank of Scotland and one of his predecessors as chairman of the bank, the late Conservative Secretary of State for Scotland, Sir George Younger.

The former, a supporter of Scottish independence, turned the Royal Bank into the fifth largest bank in the world, whereas the latter, a unionist, tried to sell the Royal Bank to the Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation, as the Royal Bank was supposedly too small to be developed further. Only an outcry in Scotland resulted in this being prevented by the Monopolies Commission.

The message is this-unionists have no ambition for Scotland and will achieve nothing of value. Give those who truly believe in Scotland the opportunity to fulfil our nation's potential.

63
You wont have long to wait!

Blair gave this warning :

" With the SNP comes independence,and it comes with a price"

Okay ,and what price would that be then?
According to McCrone (your own independent report )you are talking rubbish,plus Brian Wilson claimed that Labour had explained the strength of the SNP case to the scots and they rejected it.(The opposite of what Blair is saying).
I seem to recall the comarison was made with Albania!
Is that what Brian Wilson calls honesty?

It surely is a new meaning in my dictionary!
I can picture all the wee labourites wandering around now repeating this total garbage which does not mean anything at all,let alone of any consequence!
With the SNP comes independence .Oh my God I had not realised that the Scottish National Party was a scottish national party! Thank God we have Westminster to think for us!
This is a Prime Minister defending the Union? You could have fooled me!
Blair will decide whether he leaves after the Scottish elections according to the BBC.
Sorry but I think you will find that the Scottish elections will decide whether Blair is leaving or not!

Bye Tony Have a nice day !

65. Stephen B

Even the 'Labour' and Tory parties don't recognise the left - right divide any more.

In Scotland the debate has been at least four ways for some time now.

These days the debates have got a wee bit more involved than 'if they're for it then we're against it'.

Like an old general, you get caught with your pants down because you're preparing for a battle based on the last war, invariably it is nothing like the next war..

Socialists with cloth caps and whippets fighting the class struggle went out with the euthanasia of Scottish 'heavy' industry.

The biggest reason to support independance is this war on terror debarcle. This laughable notion has serious implications - any day Glasgow, Edinburgh or any Scottish city could be 'targetted.' I think Scotland should disassociate herself from the war mongering Westminster and step up to the European plate before all our oil is gone...

75 - Actually there's another position: it says that the independence is workable (Scotland is hardly likely to become a banana republic after independence is it?) - it's just a question of what difference unimaginative centre-left Edinburgh fudge from unimaginative centre-left London fudge.

So, to take your three lines, I guess my take is:

- No Scotland isn't doomed - there will be costs and benefits.
- Scotland will survive (unless it really does want to become North Korea or continually invade Northumberland - both of which are highly unlikely)
- No, I'm not happy with the way things are but can't see them changing with this lot of SNP chancers.

Also "And who told you the SNP was a Left party?" Well, they did in the metatags for their website: "The SNP is a democratic left-of-centre political party committed to Scottish Independence." They also voted with Labour more often than they vote against.

Stephen B - are you claiming Labour is a left party too?

am...I disagree with your analysis that the income tax proposal as a replacement has been shot full of holes...the only thing that is shot full of holes is the status quo which is unfair in the least and is a very regressive tax...but very glad that this is your only fault found against the SNP today instead of your usual rant and repetition of the labour/unionist lies..

To 84:

What will be the price of independence? It seems like all we'll need to do is pay for the re-designing of the stationary in the government (which happens with every new government anyway), and the changing of the signposts at the border (which will have to say "drive on the right" or something similar).

Brilliant. Milton Keynes, anyone ever been there? Is this what we (scotland) would hope to aspire to? Not me. Grey and lifeless is how I would describe it so have pity on the poor chap posting from there. He has proven there is life, albeit confused.

Many people have given comments as to why they want independence, not many are offering a decent argument to stay in the union. So I will give them one or two ideas.

If I were English living in England I think we should stay in the Union because.
1: I would like to help our Scottish cousins stay afloat, for without us they would sink.
2:I don't know I just would.
3:We give you money back for your oil, ah yea that will get me votes.
4: We didn't and wouldn't charge water rates because you have lots of it and we have....well some.
5:We will allow you to keep nulear submarines in Scotland...well we don't really have the room in Milton Keynes.
6:We allow you to treat our radioactive waste without camplaint (taking our jobs but you are welcome).
7:We allow you some powers to keep you happy. Like Jack who said "introduce a smoking ban" was his idea. Ok Ireland did it first but Jack told them to.
8:If we stay in the union we will allow you to pump your lovely Scottish water down to us and in return we will.......eh....allow you to....eh......well we just think it will be good for the union.

I would welcome ANY, even half decent ideas as to why the Union is better.......

84. morris

Spot on!

The Scottish elections will decide when Tony(and Joke) leaves, sooner not later.

Then watch the Labour fur fly!

As far as I can see from these columns the only folk who feel Scotland should NOT be independent are taxi drivers and computer geeks.

89
Near enough everybody else disagrees with him also Bill.You are the only one who could be bothered reading any more of his ravings,I suspect.
I wonder if hes called AM in the hope that one day it will dawn on him?

Left-wing; Right-wing - Can never agree - adversarial - stubborn to the bone wing. Independence and sovereignty are the World wide 'norm' and are the Correct-wing.

# 93.
There is another group of people that do NOT want independence, um I think the English is their collective name.

90
Im curious as to why we would drive on the right? I noticed years ago that former British Empire nations retained driving on the left,whilst nearly everybody else drives on the right.
Presumably change over is expensive cumbersome and achieves nothing?
I doubt that we would share the island and want open borders but drive on the other side of the road.Do you know something I dont I wonder?

#91

The Union is better because
- it encourages neighbouring states to cooperate rather then solve problems by conflict
- for example it was a monetary union before the EU existed
- allows Scots and English to live, work, study and travel freely within the Union
- it doesnt force hundreds of thousands of British people to decide if they are Scottish or English
- recognises that we have been one country for longer than the USA has even existed

Much the same advatanges as being a member of the EU/

The problem that the Unionist argument has is that the points used in 1979 were used again in 1997 and were shown up for what they were, McCrone et al.

2007 and the same discredited claptrap is trundled out again.
http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument....

Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice shame on you.

Salmon is an outstanding candidate? What drugs are the SNP putting in the tea of these people? Salmon like the rest of the SNP are a bunch of lightweight 'pie in the sky' jokers.

Independence would be a disaster, regardless of what all the Braveheart lovers would like to think.

For one thing we can all kiss our nice house price increases good bye, right now a lot of Southerners are coming up here buying cheaper property, it will certainly put a crimp in that, not that I would blame them because we are becoming a nation of xenophobes.

Room 101 - Doh - I am not English. I share very few of English cultural quirks and interests outside a wish to protect my heritage. Now stop being silly.

Ever had a back seat driver tell you how to drive? That's what the union feels like for many Scots.

101 Doh

INDEPENDENCE is better because;

- it encourages neighbouring states to cooperate rather then solve problems by conflict.

- allows Scots and English to live, work, study and travel freely within the world.

- it doesn't force hundreds of thousands of British people to decide if they are Scottish or English.

Plus, we would have the ability to make decisions for Scotland, in Scotland, and be responsible for those decisions.

101. Doh
No it isn't because;

Where ever there is a conflict there's the UK right in the thick of it.

Monetary union with the Eurozone is not an economic symbol of virility, but sensible business practice with our biggest potential customers.

We can travel freely within the European Union.

300 years of Union with England forcing us to be North British did not stop us being Scottish.

We have been a country longer than England has existed.

Exept that we have proper international recognition and say in policies affecting our people.

Sonofahamish - go join the "We are awe doomed" line.

Thank you.

On 31/03 there will be a mass demo for a referendum on independence. This is an opportunity just before the election for the Scottish independence movement as a whole to make clear that we DEMAND a democratic referendum on our future.

www.independence1st.org

We only need one million votes for independence to get a clear majority for the Scottish independence supporting parties, ie SNP, SSP, Greens and Solidarity. It is well within our grasp if we work together.

Sonofhamish what a sad brow beating unionist view of things!!

Did you make your way home from Pamplona ok on Wednesday night?

I have made up my mind where my vote will be going, the pathetic Unionist scaremongers need to learn that they are now a positive tool for the SNP!

Your doom stories do noting but inspire and encourage those of us who are free thinking and hard working.

Sonofhamish, please keep up the good work old bean, we are positively counting on it!

sonofa

So you are just a greedy b#ast#rd.

In it for yourself.

So my house doesn't go up in value any more, big deal. It means if I sell it I can go buy another I can afford makes no difference unless you speculate on property.

If YOU do you know the risks.

Says it all go join New-ish Labour.

Are the posts here an indicator of the intellectual standards likely to prevail in an independent Scotland. Oh dear!

#39 and #65 I agree with you. Scotland needs independence so that Scots can make their own financial decisions rather than 'drawing the dole' in the form of Westminster grants, which go towards nurturing dependency in places like Glasgow.

True, the independence movement is, by and large, left-of-centre. After independence we can move back towards reality rather than living in a subsidised fantasy land and blaming the English.

Feel sorry for Gordon Brown though. He's waited so long!

103
Firstly the mans name is Salmond! Hes an economist.
We are talking about the economics of an independent nation. and just what house prices and English people coming here have to do with anything Im a bit lost to understand.
Id criticise what you say more,but you aint said ought!
Salmond was voted parliamentarian of the year and all parties acknowledged him as a skilled performer who they would rather not face .
You on the other hand are a total wazzak!

Steveg9 Milton Keynes - all posts:-
Like a lot of the engish who post on these topics, you try to tell us that we should be grateful to the english. What do you wnat us to do? Not control our own resources and destiny but to bow and thank the english whom you seem to regard as our masters.
Yeah, life is better in Scotland - we do get more per head of capita fromt he UK than the rest - this is to placate us into staying in the union. Even still, we are net contributers and you lot of whingers would lose out big style if we left. So instead of slagging us, you really should be pleading for us to stay.
And you declare that WE make YOU laugh! Really?

111 All except yours yes

PWD - No the only post is yours.

Nice reposte, Morris - if only I knew what a "Wassak" is.

Out of curiousity - has anyone south of the border written here imploring the Scots to stay in the Union. Has anyone actually said, "We love Scots; we'd hate to lose you. Can you not co-exist with us a bit longer?" My mum was forever saying love conquers all.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

114
You hit it on the head of course.
The Uk is full of bird brains who think that England subsidises Scotland because we currently contribute more per head to Scotland than English regions (if you use the method of calculation currently used).They completely fail to understand that the telling comparison is not that of expenditure at all,but that of income and expenditure.Scotland contributes MORE into Westminster than she gets from Westminster.THIS IS FACT>When Scotland leaves England has a big hole in finances to fill because the oil revenues go North of the Border,and any share that England could even hope to claim she has already squandered!
The best part is the English want rid of us OH YES PLEASE

#101 Doh
Is that really your reasons for maintining the Union?
If it is you really need to waken up!
'- recognises that we have been one country for longer than the USA has even existed' Sorry but how long has Scotland been in existance???
'- it doesnt force hundreds of thousands of British people to decide if they are Scottish or English '
Sorry Im Scottish, I live and work in England, that will not prevent me from having either a Scottish or English passport, nor will it prevent me from freely travelling from or to Scotland!
'- it encourages neighbouring states to cooperate rather then solve problems by conflict'
What copuntries are going to come into conflict with either England or Scotland post independence??
I think its time that you woke up and smelt the coffee!

119
Yes They are called the New Labour Party Conservative Party and Liberal Democrat Party,(but they are all liars and we are not listening anymore)

#118 - My linguistic advisor has just informed me that a wassak is very similar to a git.

ps - no need to thank

#99: No-one really knows whether Scotland will be financially better or worse off after independence. The point is, Scots will be making financial decisions for Scotland, rather than 'outsourcing' these decisions to England.

Remember when Eddie George from the Bank of England admitted that unemployment in the north was 'acceptable' if it meant growth in the south of England?

PS I consider myself British: I hate 'Flower of Scotland'!

So what s**** as the scotsman going to print now that the RBS think that independance is ok.
I cant wait to get independace and say to Gerri peev hay you talk s****

Nice one, Sir George and well done Alex Salmond"!
I've voted SNP for years but have always been slightly concerned as to whether they have the depth or breadth of talent in their ranks.
Recently there have been some fine performances by key SNP figures in public debates against Bliar's crew, and they really are showing that they have the gravitas and passion to form a credible and good majority party in Holyrood.
Let's face it our three previous First Ministers will hardly go down in history as worthy leaders of this great nation. Salmond would.

101
Doh
If you knew any history at all, you would know that Scotland is one of the oldest nations in existence (even older than England) and we joined the UK under threat of invasion and being put to the sword by the English army camped at Carlisle in 1707.YOu might also learn that in 1711 we voted to leave again! We were not allowed to and the vote taken by all UK MPs overruled that of Scots MPS who voted YES!
You know even less than Edward has given you credit for Im afraid!

Should this not perhaps be the key quote?

"In contrast to other business leaders, who last month delighted Labour leaders when they questioned the impact that breaking up the Union would have on Scottish investment and employment, Sir George said he had no fears about independence. "

Just because one business lead says that he sees no problems with Scotland being independant doesn't mean its all rosie. What about all the business leader that do foresee problem that Sir George is contrasting?

Typical pro SNP crap from teh Scotsman, blowing everything well out of proportion. Don't count your chickens yet.

Hey @93 I'm a computer geek and I totally want Independance for Scotland. The taxi driver comment is still valid

I don't think the English parties understand; Scotland cannot wait for independence. We are going ahead without it.

Hehehe.

#99 AM

Still mired in your own desperation I see AM!

To the point that you would still rather discuss yesterdays headlines rather than today's?

We all know that your proposals for Local Government Funding is an ever-increasing Council Tax. You admitted so yesterday!

You also prefer to ignore your party's own support of Trident while paying nurses a below-inflation pay increase!

No doubt you also want to ignore the increasing costs of the London Olympics ( now worth 20 Scottish Parliament buildings!) and which will now take £1 in every £5 from Good Causes and the most vulnerable individuals and groups in Scotland and the UK.

You and your likes have nothing to preach about and its not unreasonable to expect you to stay on topic!

#126 Who believes in worthy politicians any more? Salmond looks like Rab C Nesbit.

Banana Heid, you can call me LA. "93" makes me sound like a take-away.

The Union is good for England. Is it good for Scotland? certainly no. The nature of the genesis of England/Scotland Union was to profit England and some nobles of Scotland, and that remains the case to date. No wonder Gordon Brown would come and tell us "we are stronger together and weaker apart". The facts that Gordon Brown is happy to see England winning the world cup bid host in 2018 speaks it all. As a supposedly to be a scot, Gordon Brown has completely written off Scotland towards any possibility of hosting the event, why? Only Gordon knows.
Scots should have their own aspirations and full control of their destiny as a nation. Under Independent Scotland, Scotland will be stronger and Gordon Brown weaker.
Come scots men and women, seize the opportunity to move the country forward.

I, like most Scots, am not a nationalist but more so a rationalist, and it would appear that our own self-confidence and belief is growing.

Not in our own abilities as they have always been world class but in our rights as an enlightened nation to enhance the lives of all those who live here, visit here and do business with us.

Scotland consistently leads the way not only in business but in science and education and these are trademarks which other nations identify in our culture.

In the past, while we have strived to make things better at home and across the world, we have slipped up the attention we have paid in our rightful destiny to choose our own leaders and our own future.

That time has come to an end as the people of Scotland, as successful as they are at home and across the world, have realised that life can be a whole lot better under or own independent government.

However, don't be brought into the old "colonial" argument because companies in Holland, Germany, England and the US don't care about our nationalities, they only wnat the best product for their customers. And fortunatley, with our enlightened and progressive culture, we are able to deliver that. RBS being a good example!

But it is the improvemnet in our quality of life that we are after and within that quality we seek the freedom to choose and freedom to govern being paramount in our happiness!

We created the enlightenment and we are still at the forefront in world terms.

Let us move on! Let's take "Scotland" and all the good that it brings, to our own people and to the world!

Let us not be afraid!

It'll be interesting to see how many of the these failed 'Unionists' will run away to their spiritual home when independence arrives.

It will be even more interesting to see how many become parasites a few years later when they see Scotland doing well in the world and their spiritual home going down the tube.

"I've always been Scoatish, pal! I only went to England efter independence coz my joab sent me there!

"Salmond looks like Rab C. Nesbit"? Help ma boab. That's a scunner tae swally. Is he his brither, like?

Also for all the people that go on about Alex Salmond being a great candidate heres a ittel thing to consider...

He goes on about making decisions for Scotland in Scotland. So why is he in Westminster? Pot, kettel and black springs to mind.

Nice one Boab! but Rab C is a fair bit more beleviable and respectable than that salmond fool. Looks like a fish out of water, gasping for air whenether the economy pops up. Face it you jake alex, putting independence on scotland will be like putting it through a seive - you'l lose all the quality and keep the crap!

I don't think many of the people above have bothered to read what Sir George Mathewson actually said. He says that independence would be good because it would end our "dependency culture". In other words, he is a Tory who thinks we all expect to sponge off the (English) taxpayer, don't work hard enough, and should be busy setting up small companies. Think about it....

Don't get me wrong. I would vote for independence come the referendum. But I'm not a tartan tory either.

My fiscal loyalty remains firmly with the Bank of Scotland at Gairloch here in Wester Ross. The local staff have a commitment to service that's second to none. But this ringing endorsement of the SNP from the man who steered the rival Royal Bank of Scotland to global greatness would tempt me to switch a fraction of my meagre funds to the RBS if there was indeed a branch in Gairloch itself.Gosh , Sir George , you've fairly made my day.Your views will go a long way towards securing victory for the Scottish National Party at the polls on May the 3rd.It's all about self confidence.

ATTENTION ATTENTION. WILL AM GO QUICKLY TO #124 WHERE BOAB HAS HAD AN OUTBREAK OF HATE. Oh it's OK he's a unionist. Stand down AM.
IN THE MEANTIME:>}

Poll Blow for Blair
snp - 2007-03-15
The SNP's Depute Leader Nicola Sturgeon MSP today (Thursday) released new polling figures from YouGov, commissioned by the SNP, which shows that the majority of Scots believe that the Prime Minister lied when taking the country to war in Iraq, and that they now trust Labour less on other issues.

The poll results were released on the eve of Mr Blair's planned visit to Scotland tomorrow (Friday).

Other results from the poll published by the SNP today show that:

Over two thirds of Scottish people believe Blair lied when making the case to go to war in Iraq
The majority of Scottish people do not believe Blair cares about Scotland
A sizable majority of Scottish voters think Tony Blair has not been a good Prime Minister for Scotland
Over two thirds of the Scottish public are disappointed with the performance of the Labour government
Over two thirds of the Scottish public feel let down by the Labour Government
The majority of the Scottish voting public are less likely to vote Labour in next election if Blair is still in power

Speaking as she released the figures, Ms Sturgeon said:

"These results are devastating news for Labour's election campaign as Tony Blair prepares to come to Scotland.

"Labour's lies on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq are coming home to roost, and the party looks set to pay the price with Scottish voters at the polls in May.

"Not only do Scots believe that Blair lied, but they don't believe that he cares about Scotland.

"Scots are turning to the SNP because they feel let down by Labour after Iraq, and these results are the stark proof.

"Scottish voters want a fresh start for Scotland, not more of Labour's scaremongering, lies and nega

Ruaridh [140] Osborne - with a name like that you must be a man of divided loyaties.

Tell me ...

How do you keep an idiot in suspense? ..................................................................................... I'll tell you tomorrow.

Do you agree or disagree with the following statement? 'Tony Blair did not tell the truth when making the case for Britain to go war in Iraq'

Agree 69
Disagree 16
Don't know 15

Tony Blair cares about Scotland

Agree 20
Disagree 58
Don't know 22

Tony Blair has been a good Prime Minister for Scotland

Agree 22
Disagree 58
Don't know 21

Do you agree or disagree with the following statements?

I am disappointed with the performance of the Labour government

Agree 64
Disagree 27
Don't know 9

I feel let down by the Labour government

Agree 63
Disagree 28
Don't know 9

Do you think Tony Blair made a mistake taking Britain into war in Iraq?

Yes, he made a mistake 73
No, he did not make a mistake 19
Don't know 8

If Tony Blair is still Prime Minister at the time of the Scottish election does that make you more or less likely to vote Labour in that election?

More likely to vote Labour 5
Less likely 21
No difference – I would vote Labour anyway 21
No difference – I would NOT vote Labour anyway 44
Don't know 9

I like the stories about border posts and passport controls between Scotland and England. I drove from Malta via Italy, Switzerland, Luxemburg, France Belgium to Rosyth without once having to show ANY documentation. The scare stories will drone on but the Scottish electorate aren't as daft as these ar$eholes from Labour/Tory/Libdums think.
Show them on May 3rd. Vote SNP

The gloves are off!!!!!!

It's very early for the SNP to bring out their big guns but this man's conversion to SNP politics must be a boost for their arguments.
I hope they have the stamina for a long haul - they'll need to keep pushing this for the whole election campaign - the econmic argument is the key!

However this is one ex-businessman who has obviously become a SNP admirer - but one expert doesn't make a consensus - he ranks in my opinion along with all the experts that the SNP said were discredited because they were "unionist" or had previously supported the labour party.

What did Westminster vote on the other day? Trident. Was there a majority of Scottish MPs in favour? No. Does Scotland want to have the biggest concentration of nuclear weapons in Western Europe sitting on our shores. No. How do we get shot of them? Vote SNP and then sit back and await developments! I can't wait to see Broon's face- not to mention Des Browne, John Reid and the rest of the warmongers. Aye there's a grand come uppance just roound the corner.

Very interesting-personally I am more likely to be convinced re the benefits of independence by the comments from people like SGM than any politician-on either side of the debate.

As to the argument about jobs that will be lost if the status quo is changed-just look at the Prudential story to appreciate the fallacy of this argument. In a global economy global companies will locate to wherever they perceive to be the most favourable location to service their customers. Most favourable in terms of market accessibility, availbility of a skilled and flexible workforce including hire and fire legislation, the appropriate fiscal policies-tax rates incentives and labour costs etc

Whereas previously being part of the UK was undoubtedly a great benefit to us, it is fast becoming a serious handicap due to a parliament that is incapable of responding to our needs, the involvement in unjust wars, etc. In pursuing this policy the UK spends an unsustainable proportion of its GDP on defence as it hangs on to the US's coat-tails in the vain belief that it is still an imperial superpower-like some faded Holywood starlet still yearning to be back centre-stage as this year's glamour pin-up. Result is a NHS that no longer functions and the worst pensions in W Europe as money is diverted to fund Trident.

PS Anyone else think that McConnell is really secretly a nationalist, as along with Phony Tony, he has actually done more to further the cause of Independence than any other living Scot in the past three hundred years?

#139 - Caning - the SNP need to be represented at every political forum that has power over Scotland so they can deliver their message. The sooner Scotland sends no MPs to Westminster the better - the time is coming - believe

www.scottishindependence.com

#141.

When people refer to the "dependency culture". It is generally recognised as referring to the people who have the misfortune to be on the scrapheap, living in poverty and in receipt of state benefits. A union dividend that the SNP will eradicate.
The other culture you refer to is the "subsidy junkie," myth perpetrated by the likes of Thatcher, Tebbit, Livingston, McKenzie and other Scots hating racists, not forgetting the vilest of them all Bernard Ingham. They seek to cover up the gorging black hole that London is on the UK scene, by lying about the true fiscal wealth of the Scottish nation, stolen from us, and acknowledged in the McCrone report in the seventies.
Do try and keep up.

Encephalon - good comments but less of the "faded Holywood starlet," stuff. And it's spelt "Hollywood."

31. Rulesbutnotrulers:

I’ve read many of your posts and thought them somewhat infantile or perhaps a joke. This latest contribution is in a class of its own. Zimbabwe indeed!

Do remember it was an English government who put that disgusting piece of filth in charge of that once very rich country. And the man who campaigned tirelessly on his behalf is now a Labour Government Minister – Mr. Hain.

I ask you to look at the small European countries that have gained their independence. That is of course assuming that a moronic cretin such as you has the ability to draw conclusions from facts. Otherwise I suggest you accept the word of SIR George Mathewson as a man who has far greater knowledge and intelligence than you.

G#147

The difference is that Sir George Mathewson wasnt wined and dined and begged to speak out in favour of Independence. He done so of his own accord!

This is unlike Gordon Brown and company holding secret meetings with businesspeople pleading with them to speak out against Independence, with only two of them doing so.

The Labour party has no rabbit in the bag. Its already expended every scare-story and threat it can muster.

The SNP campaign has only just begun!

What will be funny is Tony Blair and Jack McConnel on the campaign trail in Scotland (today?) when they come out with the same old tired scare stories about Independence!

What a great day for such a headline!

Sanny, I think Rulesbutnotrulers was thinking of "The Last King of Scotland" when he made that stupid remark.

George Mathewson is not alone in recognizing that the current Labour/Liberal Democrat administration have failed us miserably.

Scotland desperately needs a jolt. Some of us have become hopeless and cynical and have given up on the future. Others are just too comfortable for their own good.

One of the best things to have happened in the last 50 years is the independence debate which sets us all thinking and talking about the future, rather than dwelling on the past or whingeing about the present.

The fact is there is something seriously screwed up with our economy, when roughly half of the working population are employed by the government and large chunks of the urban population are on state benefits of one kind or another. There is an urgent need to radically reform public spending.

He is absolutely right in his view that the Scottish National Party are the only political party currently who display the economic policies and the people of real ability to form a Government which will move Scotland forward successfully after May's elections.

#143 / #151 Gonna backpedal now: 'Flower of Scotland' is a nice song, but it's embarrassing to define Scotland by it's wars with England. I'm British but I feel the Union's time has passed.

#121 Edward
Yes they are some reasons for staying in Union that I was able to toss of over a copy of the rabidly pro-independant Scotsman.

If the two nations become seperate then it is likely our intrests will diverge and lead to conflict of interest (I wasnt meaning war).

For example why should England pay for English students to study in Scotland (and vice versa of course) - this isnt scare stories just reality.
You cling to the comfort blanket of the EU but that can change - just as you wish Scotland constitutional position to change.

The British Union was an earlier attempt at multi-national integration, not a military conquest - no wonder so many SNP have an inferiority complex. I dont feel sibjected I live in a free country with free elections.

Morris - as it happens I do know quite a lot of history - I am just no obsessed by 1707. Yhe last 300 years is more important and relevant its why are economies and societies are so inter mixed.

I dont think the world or Scotland will be a better place for more "balkanisation".

Should New York leave the USA?

I am not in the least surprised that the head of one of the biggest players within the global economy is joining the SNP. This confirms the true class nature of the SNP which aims to work wholly within the present system run by the bosses and big business. Believe me if Mr Mathewson thought that the SNP was a “left of centre party” he would not be throwing his lot in with the Nats. Along with Tom Farmer, he will sit in very nicely within the bureaucratic centralist structure of the SNP and will act as a check on the more “radical” elements within the SNP who wish to move the party more to the left and he will have a strong voice in ensuring that the SNP will stay within the control of the global economy - in the interests of the RBS of course. Thus, really, there is no real difference between the SNP and the other parties and the word “independence” against this background is a total fallacy. The reason why the SNP have delayed any referndum on independence is that they are being careful not to scare away potential big players like RBS who operate within the global market. Mathewson will serve as an excellent gatekeeper for capitalism in the absence of the the natural party of big business, the Tories. The irony of all this is that the growing support for real socialist policies within the Labour Party through the John4 leader campaign, for those looking for an alternative to New Labour , now looks far more radical and exiting than anything the SNP and the sectarian parties of the SSP and Solidarity can offer. John4leader.

New Labour is trying to win over voters by parading Tony Blair up and down the country. Never mind, the present PM in Scotland will only help independence.

But what I'd like to know: will an independent Scotland still have a foreign army on its soil? Or will it send the US troops back to where they belong?

The scottish economy has already been damaged and neglected it is far too dependant on the public sector. Development and entrepenuership in the scottish economy are curtailed and hidebound by the planning process -particularly in rural scotland and the highlands and islands, where (colonial)organisations such as SNH which have inculcated an anti development agenda (perhaps this is what they want to turn us into trinket sellers for tourists and let us die off and they will have there wildlife nirvana). This is why the economy of the highlands and islands will remain a basket case -overly dependant on the public sector subsidy constrained by the planning system into accepting only tourism related development -poorly paid highly seasonal employment (a niche now being increasingly filled by migrants from eastern europe) and shafted by poor infrastructure, high transport and ferry costs. Do these civil servants cocooned in their edinburgh bubble or offices in Inverness understand how hard it is to create suatainable jobs and wealth in the highlands and islands? Probably not as they will get well paid however badly they perform. No wonder the population of the highlands and islands is decreasing and those that are left are ageing and not economically active.
Whatever the make up of the next parliment a minister for the highlands and islands should be appointed, the planning process should be liberalised to be pro development SNH should be tasked to control and curtail the power of large landowners to leave huge areas of scotland as biological deserts and an economic marshall plan for transport and the economy in the highlands and islands put into action.

The sad fact of the matter is the Labour government both in England and Scotland have been Infiltrated by Evil hobgoblins. to find out more about these hideous creatures which are currently running rampant around the world go here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvmOppuw4y8

scottwebb this is one for your archives.

#151. AM.
When the word hate is used it is generally because the user is being hateful, unless he is unionist then it is allowed, in AM land.
Unless my ID has been cloned I see reference to other subjects from me on here. I was just trying to be helpfull to you in your mission. Remember, be alert, the union needs lerts.
Now you are detesting Flower o Scotland, the adopted anthem of the Scottish Nation, (can you explain the devisive bit's?) what a crazy mixed up unionist you are. Unless you mean that we are being beastly to Longshanks for kicking his a** and sending him homeward to think again. But then coming from Northern Ireland, detesting and hating will come easy to you, which really explains a lot of your irrational and bizarre ranting.
Bizarre is it not that a person from a tiny corner of the long gone Empire of Britain should try convincing pro independent Scots that they cannot exist on their own merit as a proud vibrant nation. Your island, that is the part that is not maintained at vast cost by the UK, is doing very nicely, it took some time, but look at the pride and the dignity that the people of Eire now have. The yoke of British imperialism has finally been cast of, and despite the best efforts of the British to prevent it, Eire has flourished and taken her place among Europe's small independent successful nations, what a fantastic happy ending to centuries of brutality and oppression. And yes I acknowledge we Scots are as guilty as any for that.
Your dilemma is understandable AM, but alas you are p***ing into the wind. Not nice is it :>)
You have a nice shift now, seek, seek them out:>)

#17william x - sorry, you're wrong about the world not having heard of Scotland for the last 300 years. Read "The Scottish Enlightenment; the Scots' Invention of the Modern World" by Arthur Herman (who is not a Scot, nor of Scottish descent, he has a PhD from Johns Hopkins and is Co-ordinator of the Smithsonian 's Western Heritage Programme).

Anyone else out there who hasn't read this, should.

141. Buccaneer:

May I suggest you lose the politics of envy, that attitude belongs to a long past era. May I suggest that you again read the article and take time to understand the content. That there is a culture of dependency in Scotland is without doubt the greatest damage that has been done to our country by successive Westminster based governments.

Look around you; how many do you know are on some type of benefit. Worse, how many have never worked to earn their keep. We now have families in Scotland comprising two or more generations that for all of their life have relied on DHSS benefits to survive.This is demeaning and must be changed.

This is not about a particular Party; it is about human dignity! As individuals and as a country we need to stand on our own two feet! And that requires a change in the in the hand-out culture.

I always felt that George Mathewson was a first class chief executive of the Scottish Development Agency, aside from his exemplary performance at RBS. It seemed to me the old SDA was very effective in attracting high technology companies and in many ways showed the way for Ireland. When George moved on we held our breath in Silicon Glen and it is now but a shadow.

We are well aware how successful Ireland has been, leaping past Scotland. (It is not true to say this is a result of EU subsides which are a but small part of the total investment). Ireland has invested greatly in a range incentives for incoming business, winning inward investment at the expense of Scotland and moreover, retaining it. In the world of Strictly Scottish Commercial Dancing we have four left feet and are left to wonder at Riverdance.

We have lost our way in a fog of complacency. There is an enormous iceberg out there called economic failure and we are just shuffling the deckchairs. We are preoccupied with how well or badly the deckchairs have been shuffled, who should shuffle the deckchairs next, dare we cut off our bit of deck to shuffle on. Meantime the country is sinking.

I would dearly like to see George Mathewson take a hand, and a big hand, in showing the way again. Scotland needs an injection of must do and can do like never before. The political leader that can make that happen gets my vote. The leader that tells me it will be damned hard work and it will cost money gets my vote.

SNP tax position hasn't upset many people
68% of Scottish taxpayers questioned by Labours paper-in-Scotland (the Scotsman) said they didn't care that the SNP would NOT implement the 1% tax cut offered as bribe by London to keep the Scots voting labour.

Most people seem to agree that the 1% could provide about $400million (250 million pounds) per year in better public services instead.

Tony Blur, the man who has cut income tax , but raised all other taxes, and scrapped mortgage relief and help for students said
"It is totally dishonest for the SNP to pose a false choice between their unfair tax rise and investment in public services."

Thats it Tony, just keep those delusional lies rolling from that silver tongue of yours.

Doh

"England" doesnt pay for English students to study at Scottish Universities (and vice-versa"

Students pay the fees for their university studies whether they come from or are studying in Scotland, England, Belgium, France or China or the USA, or anywhere else.

These individuals students simply qualify for available grants, or whatever, in their country of origin or from the country from which they come!

That wont change!

It seems to me that the two countries, Scotland and England, clinging on to each other is the cause of any such existing problems.

You say that "The British Union was an earlier attempt at multi-national integration, not a military conquest"

that might be true but a military invasion was on the cards had Scots not agreed to the Union and besides, most Scots opposed it. The unelected Aristocracy supported it.

History aside, The Benelux Union between Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg was the precursor of the EU. All three got together for their mutual benefit, but maintained their respective national Independence!

What is wrong with that?

#161 Eh? So are you operating from a radical cell looking to overthrow the Labour Party from within?
I'd make a quip but nothing seems worthy.

Wonder when THE Scottish Labour MP will jump ship to SNP?

Old Tom #135 - excellent!

Morris #120 -cheers!

Canning #139 you can do better - I do not believe you are that naive. Your question has been done to death over recent months - anyway, in simple terms, here goes-

The reason Alex Salmond is at Westminster is because this is the best platform from where he can fight for Scotland's interests.
Westminster is where the real action happens and decisions made. You should be delighted we have someone of Alex Salmond's qualities in there.
Meanwhile, back on the holyrood gravy train, Jack McConnell and his cronies are allowed to take decisions about the colour of bus stops and whether or not people can smoke in pubs. Jack has no vision for Scotland and even if he did, he can;t do anything of susbstance. Absolutley nothing. He can't makme decsions about infrastructure, he can't stop ship to ship oil transfers in the forth, he can't discuss nuclear power, he can't discuss defence, he can't influence what countries we decide to go to war on, he can't vote on whether or not we need a new WMD blah blah blah...
Comprehende? Westminster = the government. Holyrood = the puppet show (currently!)

Must do better Canning - 0/10.

Scotland should look forward to a real Scottish Government. Labour party has been in power for 8 years. I think Scotland should look at real powers for the Parliament and vote for SNP and have it's Independence (we be better off)

Vote SNP in May
Blackford

#160

The term Balkanisation is far from appropriate when discussing the aspirations of so many Scots. I (and I’m sure others) would appreciate it if you would refrain from using jingoes spewed out by the Labour Party.

I live in England and have done for 10years. This doesn't stop me from wanting what's best for Scotland. I travel the globe extensively and it pains me to see nations of similar size and populations doing far better than my homeland.

Most of your arguments are nil and void within an EU context.

160: Quote "If the two nations become seperate then it is likely our interests will diverge and lead to conflict of interest (I wasn't meaning war)." Unquote.

You assume that the interests of Scotland and England are the same. They aren't. Under the union, England's interests over-ride Scotland's interests. Think interest rates, think Trident, think Olympics.

You have actually stated another good reason for independence - congratulations on your conversion to our cause.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6456319.stm

Prime Minister Tony Blair has dismissed a top businessman's support for the Scottish National Party as "self-indulgent and absurd".

Sir George Mathewson, former Royal Bank of Scotland chairman, announced his support in a letter to The Scotsman.

He backed SNP leader Alex Salmond for first minister and argued that the SNP and independence could liberate Scotland from a "dependency culture".

Mr Blair, who is in Edinburgh, claimed separation could bankrupt Britain.

The prime minister launched a Labour campaign which warned that without Scotland Britain could "end up broke".

Sir George, who helped make the Royal Bank of Scotland the world's fifth biggest bank, claimed Labour was creating a "fear culture" about independence.

"It's difficult to forecast the future, but I see no circumstance where independence would be a serious [economic] disadvantage," he wrote.

He also accused the Labour and Liberal Democrat coalition at Holyrood of having a "lack of high quality leadership".

Mr Salmond said: "Sir George personifies the success in business and public service that we want to see for the whole of Scotland."

The SNP leader added: "He speaks with great knowledge, authority and credibility, and I am hugely encouraged that he has decided to make his views public."

Sir George backed the SNP to take Scotland forward

Dismissing Sir George's comments, Mr Blair told a business breakfast: "You talk to real businesses, talk to the types of people I have just been addressing, and look at the impact of separation on real businesses and real families.

"It's absurd to say that there is not going to be a cost and a penalty - particularly when the SNP have got unfunded commitments, p

#171 Maxie

The governments subsidise universities according to student head count - that will change after UDI, directly paid students fees are only partially cover the cost.

Are you saying English students can come and study in Scotland for free? Cool, that really is open hearted.

Of course the Act of Union pre-dated universal suffrage but it has been accepted at every general election since - by the large majorities supporting as you call them "unionist" parties.

I agree that the history argument is pretty lame - why stop in 1707 - why not earlier - what was the tribe in the Lothians called - bring back the Roman Empire at least the trains ran on time.

#118. Los Angeles, Los Angeles / 9:59am
Here's an instance of the use of the Northern English colloquial term wazzak, or wazzock, you might enjoy.

From Capstick comes home.

""Ee, mi father went crackers. He reached out and gently pulled mi mam towards 'im by t'throat. "You big fat, idle ugly wart", he said. "You gret useless spawny-eyed parrot-faced wazzock." ('E had a way wi words, mi father. He'd bin to college, y'know).""

http://www.arar93.dsl.pipex.com/mds975/Content/funnies6.html

No 26 Steve..
I'm afraid you are way off the mark.
I suppose you also believe all Scots are Stingy, and any other stereotype your average clown believes down south.
Ya Fud

One has to fully acknowledge the brilliant track record which Sir George Mathewson has mapped out in steering the RBS to its present prominence as one of the worlds premier blue-chip banks.
If only Scotland could have more of his calibre and mindset engrafted within its workplace population then that would be a diferrent story (Let us just remember - that one swallow does not make a summer).
Bottom line, whether we like it or not Scotland has over the period of time become a haven for Socialism and Labour have certainly sown the seeds. Unfortunately we have a few other parties that fall into the self-same category. We, as a nation, sadly have far too many of our citizens that are quite happy to live off (milk) the Nanny State - by getting as much - for as little input or contribution as possible. Ask any employer these days of how the enthusistic and hardworking the imigrants that we now have in these shores are in puting most of the indigenous Scots workers to shame in the workplace. (No reflection on those Scots that do pull their weight). Socialism is a man made ideology that indirectly encourages sloth, inefficiency and simply produces mediocre nations. Great nations get their greatness from having the Glory of God, first and foremost on their agenda, whether it be in the sphere of home/family, work, community or whatever.
Scotland has unfortunately for many years now, failed to heed the sovereignty of God, His majestic rule in the affairs of men and nations and our accountability towards Him, to our shame. Whether Scotland vote SNP into power at the forthcoming elections or nor, or whether it gains independence from the UK - THE BOTTOM LINE IS - " its prosperity and that of its people" rests wholly on whether it once again becomes and is seen to be - the land where the Bible is once again made the blueprint and rule of our daily lives. Anything else is built on sinking sand..........

well what a dilemma - Ian MacMillan and George Mathewson can't both be right about an Independent Scotland. So who's right? Hmmm, difficult...

It always makes me laugh when Lab/ Lib (Tories don't count, they're still trying to work out the difference between their a**e and their elbow) tell us we're not able to run our own country when we've been running England for decades. Not just the fact that the current English Government is Scottish but their Civil Service, Broadcasting and Newspaper companies, Banks and Investment companies are mainly run and managed by Scots or Scots educated people. Scotland, time to wake up and get rid of the rubbish currently in Holyrood, put McConnel and his cronies in the bin.

#180 SCOTLAND RULES

Interesting post with such great quotes:

"Mr Blair, who is in Edinburgh, claimed separation could bankrupt Britain. "

The prime minister launched a Labour campaign which warned that without Scotland Britain could "end up broke".

Makes quite a change from the "subsidy junkies" jibe that usually emanates from England!

Interesting that he also ridicules Sir George Mathewson statements as "self-indulgent and absurd".

I'll bet that's not what Gordon Brown thought when RBS recently released that they had made a £9 billion profit, much of which goes to the Treasury in Corporation and other taxes!

174. JEFF, DUNDEE

It wouldn’t be so much jumping ship as a return to first principles. Keir Hardie set up the Independent Labour Party – later the Scottish Labour Party – with the political objective of “Home Rule” for Scotland. I recall in the immediate post WWII era this was still a stated objective! So if Labour MSP’s cross the floor to join the SNP or just support them, they will not be betraying their party, simply returning home to their original principles.

I wonder how many of Blair’s New Labourites are aware of their history – or has Blair re-written this as part of his legacy?

There is an air of desperation creeping into the unionist postings this morning. Canning -was he not a member of the CABAL -is clutching at straws.

Surely those who support the Union should not try to downgrade the role of the House of Commons? SNP politicians have had to go there but few enjoy its restrictive working conditions and its archaic procedures. As Winnie Ewing observed, "Scottish (sic) Labour politicians go to Westminster to settle down. We go there to settle up."

Today we are enjoying yet another of Tony Bliar's flying visits to the last colony. It is astounding that the Labour Party in Scotland has not yet grasped that these are highly counterproductive. Perhaps they are given no say in the matter. that would be the norm.

#172 boab ,any better ideas? judging by the quality of the posts, not many.

#171 Alstair

At the moment we have a framework (the union) for resolving
our differences. After UDI England and Scotland will diverge and conflicts of interest will raised as national issues.

So if the English put Trident right on the border of Scotland you will have no say in that matter. At the moment you do - but you/we just didnt form the majority,

What is your problem with the Olympics?
Scotland could never old the Olympics on her own - best we could do is beg the English to lets us stage some events.
Better to dicuss as equal citizens within the union.
Cooperation can be mutually beneficial

#181 Doh

No. I dont think English students should receive free university education in Scotland.

Your increasing sarcasm and misrepresentation almost doesnt become you!

English students should pay for their university education in Scotland and vice-versa.

Belgian students should pay for their university education in Scotland and vice-versa.

French students should pay for their university education in Scotland and vice-versa.

Chinese students should pay for their university education in Scotland and vice versa.

If students come from outwith Scotland to our universities then its up to the authorities of their respective countries to help fund their education.

And when Scottish students attend universities elsewhere then its up to Scottish authorities to fund them or not!

Not only does that currently happen but it will continue to happen!

The "only" exception to this rule, is when we accept students from the more deprived, developing parts of the world, when Scottish Institutions and charities help pay their university education.

Not that difficult to understand is it?

I know you want it to be, but, it isnt really is it?

191 yes England can't put Trident right on the border they need a deepwater port.

I would regret it if England decided to go ahead with Trident after Scotland became independent. But that is their decision.

The view of most Scots however demonstrated in numerous polls and by their elected representatives in Westminster is that we don't want it.

We don't want it in our country and we don't want to pay for it.

So there you have an example of interests which diverge.

Why should the interests of the Union - if that is what Trident represents - take precedence over ours?

"Nearly one-third of senior RBS managers were sacked immediately, and 60 per cent of the bank's staff left in the next three years."

Hmmm. Bet all the people mentioned think he is a real gem of a guy. Why shout about a company that overcharges and earns obscene amounts for a privilaged few. A Socialist Scotland is what we want and a Republic at that. Salmond sucking up to the evil German telling her she can be Queen of Scotland, makes me sick. Wake up and see what is happening in Scotland.

181 Doh

You are out of touch mate.

have you never heard of the Lisbon strategy?

#184. John N. Gillies

Get with it, the world, Scotland, and Scotland's politics have changed since the days when 'Clyde Built' was synonimous with quality and reliability.

Even Starships once had to have a Scottish Chief Engineer.

Socialism, the love that New Labour dare not speak it's name

Doh..."the union was an attempt at multinationalism"...I think you are living in your head... That first attempt by having an army at the borders, blockading our ports, stopping us trading with our partners in europe, bribing our supposed leaders...sorry but that sounds just like imperialism...

"Gordon Brown fired the first shots in an interview with The Scotsman in January, arguing that the Scottish financial services industry could shrivel in an independent Scotland, with English investors withdrawing billions of pounds from Scottish banks, insurance firms and investment houses."

Quite why a business world flee a country with lower corporation tax (than England) is anyone's guess. Indeed, we are more likely an influx of business, just as the previously puny Irish financial services sector has experienced.

#195 Dancer

Companies all over the UK, Europe and the World are making huge profits by various means.

Lets attack them all and not just the Scottish ones!

I tried to copy all these new labour taxes and found it frustrating because I didn't want to leave anything out and there was so much.

I suggest anyone scared of honest taxes being introduced in Scotland under the SNP really should read this.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/garbagegate/item2/stealth.htm

#199 AM

I thought you did get some answers to your post at #99

I repeat my response below:

"Still mired in your own desperation I see AM!

To the point that you would still rather discuss yesterdays headlines rather than today's?

We all know that your proposals for Local Government Funding is an ever-increasing Council Tax. You admitted so yesterday!

You also prefer to ignore your party's own support of Trident while paying nurses a below-inflation pay increase!

No doubt you also want to ignore the increasing costs of the London Olympics ( now worth 20 Scottish Parliament buildings!) and which will now take £1 in every £5 from Good Causes and the most vulnerable individuals and groups in Scotland and the UK.

You and your likes have nothing to preach about and its not unreasonable to expect you to stay on topic!"

It's good to see that we are getting a debate going, instead of summary dismissal from centrist parties. Given the Millenium Dome, Holyrood and, now, London Olympics, who should be lecturing who on who adding up?

What intrigues me is, if Holyrood goes substantially SNP (or other party not governing in Westminster), how will the Scottish administration fare? Labour in both places is very cosy but I'd be interested to see how it would work out with different administrations.

No administration gets it all right first time, except New Labour, who blame all the problems on the Conservative legacy (ten years on and with a majority in the Commons!). Trying new things, getting some right and some wrong, is always a step in the right direction.

Let's not try to burst the ball in a strop to stop the game.

Let's have a grown up debate, with all views evaluated and countered only with substantiated evidence!

Those with their fingers in their ears can go play in the sand pit.

The man's barking. Has he done a deal with Salmond to become the President of the new Scotland under EU rule.

The Royal Bank of Scotland were so inefficient that they closed down my ISA without my permission.

Now I'm really going to close it down.

# 184 - a rather curious post. Bush and Blair have conspicuously attempted to reintegrate religion and politics just as you say and with considerable human cost. Surely, for believers, that's a sign of God's wrath?

#190 I think I'll vote SNP rather than voting Labour and counting on whatever armed coup it is you're planning in order to replace Tony Blair!

#199 True, AM, the SNP are probably being optimistic with their figures. They have the interests of Scotland at heart and want to get elected.

Maybe it's down to you to dispute posts #100 to #198 which are mostly all arguing for independence, for a whole range of economic and political reasons.

Brace yourselves!

Must be one of the best hidden taxes this one......

Grave-Robbing Tax : July 2006 Buried under the cover of the World Cup coverage, the Communities Sec. has sneaked out a new rule allowing local councils to seize inherited properties if they are still empty 6 months after the death of the owner. The council will have the right to break into the house, carry out alternations/refurbishment, and let it out as social housing.

91-Rain Again-Will reply to you after work! Bate your breath!
Robbie NZ-isnt it past your bedtime?

191: What a load of drivel you post!

If England puts Trident on the border, we have no say, agreed - however that would be better than having it foisted on us and sited in the Clyde because we are outvoted by English MPs who wouldn't dream of having it sited in the Thames. Again you have made the argument for independence.

As for your drivel about the Olympics - under the union, we are allowed to pay for a big shindig in London. Whoopee!

Keep it up. You and Blair are doing a fine job turning people to independence. All your arguments point towards ending this debilitating union.

What's this?
A positive story from the Scotsman about the SNP?

Am I imagining things?

Read up to about post #40 and kept asking myself - where are all the unionists. Keeping pretty darn quiet.

This is great news - this man is a major, major player and his vote of confidence will do a great deal to sway any undecided business voters from an economic angle (and maybe even some who had already made up their minds).

What I also found telling was the business leaders and their views. The SNP had three major players. The unionists had the chairmen of Rangers and Celtic. I know which I would have snatched up if I had been offered before this campaign.

It's time to move forward.

As an Englishman, I'd just like to say we aren't all against Scottish independence and we don't all take the attitude "go on then see if we care" either.

I think Scottish independence would be broadly positive for both Scotland and England, I think Scotland would prosper on it's own and almost certainly take a much better political direction under self-determination. And maybe then so many English will want what you have that OUR political masters will finally have to listen to us! You in Scotland aren't the only ones ignored by a powerful, out-of-touch elite. Don't listen to Blair and think he speaks for England - he doesn't! Not even a majority of the English voted for him, let alone a majority of the UK. That's the trouble with the electoral system but that's a whole other story....

BBC report begins --
Prime Minister Tony Blair has dismissed a top businessman's support for the Scottish National Party as "self-indulgent and absurd".

Mr Blair told a business breakfast: "You talk to real businesses, talk to the types of people I have just been addressing, and look at the impact of separation on real businesses and real families.
-- ends

If that means Tony Blair has dismissed George Mathewson view or suggested that he is not in real businesses, it is an ill judged remark that is as graceless as it is ill-informed.

God - some of this was hard reading this morning. A lot of vitriol kicking around.

I still think that the SNP's biggest challenge will be turning protests against Labour/Lib Dems into votes for themselves.

I do not know one friend, ex-colleague or family member that intends to vote SNP this May. Salmond may be their biggest vote winner but also vote loser I think. People I speak to don't dobnt that he is a good "politician" but entirely too slippery to be trusted.

Ask yourself one question about trident.

Do you sleep better knowing that if in the middle of the night someone somewhere for whatever reason launches a nuclear strike on us we will have one already on the way back? mmm that will teach em eh?

Yea thought not, just more b#llsh#t

Independence it is then!

Well #217 I know many so that I suppose cancels that argument.

sorry #217 just noticed the bit about trust at the end of your post. Oh well if it is based on trust I suppose we better go for that honest trusworthy labour guy Gordon (the stealth) Brown.

I know you didn't go look at his stealth taxes still see no comments on them. They are horiffic. Here go look.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/garbagegate/item2/stealth.htm

It's amazing to see the ammount of people having wet dreams about Alex Salmond and the SNP. LOL

Isn't it just name (less).

Better than waking in the middle of the night from a nightmare that could be Tony Blair.....oh it isn't just a nightmare......

Someone asked if any English people would implore the Scots to stay- will implore is a bit of a strong word but I'd prefer the Union to continue. As a combination I've always felt we were stronger and, in the main, our best efforts have been as the UK (slave trade abolition, WW2)- maybe this has changed going by the comments here.

I would say this to all those in favour of independence (fair play to you as it is a gutsy decision)- I wouldn't rely to much on the EU as it may go bankrupt within the next decade through enlargement.

Another option could be to make the Commonwealth our 'big' economic club- England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland (N&S) could all exist as independent nations with this framework yet work together in a beneficial manner which would include our SANZAR mates. If you must go, think big, think global.

Either way if you do go good luck to you, but I will feel a bit choked when the Union flag comes down across the country.

#214 Dan

Well said. Good luck with independence down there. I truly hope you achieve it. Hopefully we can help you along.

If you can get a hold of Billy Bragg's book about English national identity it is well worth a read.

It's time.

#224 Nick

I appreciate what you're saying and you are definitely looking at it in a mature way (unlike Blair, Brown, Reid etc).

Re the Commonwealth - the problem most Scots would have with that is that the monarchy would be the face of it. There is little respect for the Royal Family up here.

I'm not someone that votes SNP, but I can only applaud Sir George for his comments.

The Labour put-downs and scare-mongering actually have the opposite effect on me - it makes me want to say 'oh yeah, we'll show you we can run a small country successfully'. I hate the put downs and scare tactics.

I wonder if the Labour Party think that Denmark (pop. 5.5m) would be better off asking to be run by Germany???

Can anyone enlighten me please on the subject of Scottish independance.
The recent report stating even if we achieved a SNP/coalition in Holyrood that would not necessarily mean we would get the referendum most folk want?
Or are we in danger of exchanging one bunch of incompetants with another with the same self interest.
I'm genuinely puzzled as to who to believe.

Stealth Taxes – the first 90
New Labour promised not to put up income tax to get elected. So instead of in-your-face direct taxes, Chancellor Gordon Brown gave us new, indirect, Stealth Taxes and he abolished tax concessions. His attempts to fund New Labour's Fat Government Policy have savaged the pensions and savings industries and had cost the nation the equivalent of 16.5 p in the pound on the basic rate of income tax by 2004.

Here is a list of New Labour's first 90 Stealth Taxes with the date of introduction where known.
Tax & Waste Rules, UK!

July 1997
01 • Mortgage Interest Tax Relief At Source (MIRAS) reduced from 15% to 10%
02 • Dividend Tax Credits for pension schemes abolished
03 • Income tax relief on health insurance abolished
04 • Insurance Premium Tax extended to some health insurance
05 • Road Fuel Tax escalator increased to 6%
06 • Vehicle Excise Duty increased
07 • Tobacco duty escalator increased to 5%
08 • Stamp Duty raised to 2%
09 • Carry back of Corporation Tax losses limited to 1 year
10 • Windfall tax on utilities

March 1998
11 • Tax relief for the married couple's allowance (MCA) cut to 10%
12 • Top rate of Insurance Premium Tax extended to travel insurance
13 • Exceptional increase in tobacco and alcohol duties
14 • Duties on casinos and gaming machines raised
15 • Road Fuel Tax escalator increase brought forward
16 • Tax on company cars increased
17 • Tax relief on foreign earnings abolished
18 • Tax concessions for certain professions abolished
19 • Capital gains tax imposed on certain non-residents
20 • Restriction of Capital Gains Tax relief on reinvestment
21 • Corporation tax payments on account brought forward
22 • Stamp duty increased again
23 • Certain hydrocarbon duties increased
24 • Additional diesel duties introduced
25 • Landfill Tax increased
26 • Double tax credits on certain dividends restricted

March 1999
27 • National Insurance Contributions earning limit raised
28 • NI Contributions for self-employed increased
29 • Tax relief of Married Couple's Allowance abolished
30 • MIRAS abolished
31 • Self-employed contractors to pay NI and income tax as if employees
32 • Company car business mileage discount limited
33 • Double escalator on tobacco duties
34 • Insurance Premium Tax increased to 5%
35 • Vocational training relief abolished
36 • Employer NI Contribution base broadened to include all benefits in kind
37 • VAT on some banking services increased
38 • Tax on reverse premiums paid to tenants by landlords introduced
39 • Duty on domestic fuel oils up
40 • Vehicle Excise Duty for lorries increased
41 • Landfill tax escalator introduced
42 • Stamp Duty rates raised again to 2.5/3.5%

March 2000
43 • Tobacco duties increased above inflation
44 • Stamp duty raised for 4th time, scope of duty extended
45 • Extra taxation of life assurance companies
46 • Rules on tax havens tightened up
47 • Company car taxes raised

2001
The Chancellor gives the exhausted nation a year off – no new stealth taxes!

April 2002
48 • Personal tax allowances frozen
49 • National Insurance threshold frozen
50 • NI Contributions for employers raised
51 • NI Contributions for employees raised [Class 1 up 1%]
52 • NI Contributions for self-employed raised
53 • North Sea taxation increased
54 • Duty on some alcoholic drinks raised
55 • Stamp duty thresholds frozen
56 • Tax relief on investment in film industy restricted
57 • Rules on corporate debt tightened
58 • Nil-rate threshold for inheritance tax raised by less than the rate of inflation

April 2003
59 • VAT imposed on electronically supplied services
60 • Domestic staff on £89/week to pay NI & income tax, employers to pay NI
61 • Betting duty increases
62 • Tax on red diesel and fuel oil increased
63 • Anti-tax haven rules tightened to cover more UK firms with Irish subsidiaries
64 • Vehicle excise duty raised
65 • Personal tax allowances frozen again

July, 2003
66 • £35 added to all fines and £3 added to the cost of a home insurance policy

September, 2003
67 • Price of petrol raised 7p per gallon (with the VAT)

October, 2003
68 • Up to 8 times increase in the stamp duty on leases for retail premises
69 • Airport Tax doubled

December, 2003
70 • 40% extra Council Tax on second homes was sneaked in while the Westminster Wonders were breaking up for their hols a whole week before Xmas.
Additional info : It has been pointed out that a number of councils gave an even bigger discount for second homes and the increase for some people can be 80%. Plus the usual 6-18% annual rise, depending on how bloated the council's operations have become.
Exemptions may be granted if the second home owner (1) has to live somewhere because of his/her employment, (2) the dwelling comes with the job, or (3) there are special threat/security reasons involved. All of which excuses apply to 10, Downing Street, the home of a certain Mr. Anthony B. Liar. (Thanks to M.K.)

January, 2004
71 • £60 per day fine for late submission of self-assessment income tax forms
72 • Traffic wardens to receive powers to impose fines for a whole bunch of offences to keep poor people off the roads. The offences will include parking more than 19 inches from the kerb (£100) and dithering by people who are lost over, and who don't know whether to make a turn or keep straight on
73 • A 'Victims Fund' surcharge fine on everyone who passes through the courts. £5 for speeding up to £30 for murder.
74 • Legal Aid for the middle classes abolished

February, 2004
75 • £40 per week charge to middle-class parents for formerly free nursery places
76 • £200 per year charge to middle-class parents for places on formerly free school buses
77 • £250 per hour charge from the fire brigade for non-fire-related call-outs, e.g. clearing up after road accidents and rescuing pussy cats from trees

#228 barbour

The referendum will happen within four years of the SNP taking power, as long as the Lib Dems agree to a coalition. This is what we have said all along. Anything else is a fabrication or a story taken out of context by whichever newspaper.

March, 2004
78 • £550 tax rise (at standard rate) for people using a company van or people-carrier out of work time
79 • Council Tax will rise at least 7.4% next year (according to the Budget)
80 • The tax incentive for owner-operator small businesses to become companies abolished
81 • Tax on cross-border payments for goods and services between multi-divisional companies extended to transactions within the UK
82 • Tax on trusts up from 34% to 40%
83 • Duty on red diesel up 1p/litre above inflation (57% rise)
84 • Duty on liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) used as fuel up 1p/litre above inflation (45% rise)
85 • Personal allowances for taxpayers under 65 frozen

April 2004
86 • PEPs and ISAs containing shares lose their tax break on dividends and the annual ISA allowance cut by £2,000 to £5,000
87 • The 100% tax allowance for small businesses & self-employed on new computer/advanced telephone equipment cut to 50% for 2004/5 tax year
88 • Passports – in addition to costing twice as much as the present price of £42, the new 'biometric data' passports will be valid for half as long. They will have to be renewed every 5 years instead of every 10 years, which doubles the cost yet again.
89 • £100 per year 'lighthouse tax' on small boats over 8 metres long. Commerial shipping lines think they should pay £2.6 million per year towards the annual £73 million cost of maintaining lighthouses and navigational equipment.

Time to calm down, I suggest.

The English will stop Scots independence if they possibly can, especially since Brown will desperately need Scots MPs at Westminster to have any hope of forming and maintaining a UK government.

Look at all the Scots MPs in senior Ministerial positions. They and Brown will be vast into the political wilderness if Scotland becomes independent. And those who decry the lack of talent in the Holyrood Parliament should not get excited about all these political giants coming home, because they're no great shakes anyway. Donald Dewar was a terrible loss to the nation, and we will not see his like for a very long time.

So do not be surprised if Westminster refuses to pass an Act of Dissolution of the Union. Remember that dissolution requires not only the consent of the majority of the Scots, but also the consent of the Westminster Parliament. And Westminster will not allow it to happen, if it can prevent it.

UDI for Scotland? Can't happen under international law. But if not UDI, Scotland is trapped in the union unless it can raise a whirlwind in Westminster of such strength and ferocity that the London MPs believe they must give in.

For any Scot to be able to say about the union, "There's an end to an auld sang" (as was said of the Scots Parliament when the Act of Union was passed in 1706), it will take a lot more than 51+% at the polls in Scotland in May 2007.

Expect the mother and father of all constitutional battles if the SNP do win and hold a referendum.

Accident Tax • September 2004 Building on the success of the Vehicle Insurance Premium Tax (see below), which raises £105 million per year, the government is planning to extend the idea to accidents in the workplace. The government hopes to raise a further £150 million per year from insurance companies when people are treated in NHS hospitals after accidents at work. Employers can expect their liability insurance premiums to rise by 5%. Some firms have already seen their premiums rise by 20-50% in 2003/4 thanks to the current compensation culture. The rate of business failure is expected to increase steeply when this new stealth tax is imposed.

Air Passenger Duty (a.k.a. Skyway Robbery) • December 2006 Doubled from February 2007 in the pre-budget statement. This is (im)purely a tax on travelling and nothing to do with saving the planet. The rates will be £10 for shorthaul flights rising to £80 for longhaul flights.

Business Rates • September 2005 As a result of a revaluation of commercial premises, which the government promised would be 'revenue neutral', business rates will rise by 8% this year – 3 times inflation. Businesses, and their customers, will have to find £1,200,000,000 to throw into the Chancellor's Black Hole.

Childcare @ School Tax • New Labour wants all schools to stay open from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. by 2010 to allow mothers to work. The scheme has to be self-financing, so as a consequence, schools will have to charge for all out-of-hours activities, e.g. outings, sports coaching, and dance and music classes.

Company Vehicle Taxes • These taxes have been raised by increasing charges on both cars and fuel, and also by reducing high-mileage discounts.

Michael Green, you sound like the late Hughie. I'm sooooo frightened, look out the ghostie's are out, woooooh.

#193 Maxie
So Scotish Universities are likely to see a decrease in the number of students applying from England I am glad we are agreed on that.

#194 Miss H
So you agree we would have no say about what happens just across the border. At the moment we do have some say and vice versa of course. Same for interest rates, monetary policy and so on. We will still be in bed with an elephant but will have relinquished any influence on English policy.

#196 Miss H
Lisbon strategy? Go one enlighten me - is it thou shall not form unions?

Now where was I, ah yes.

Computer Tax • (March 2006 Budget small print) Anyone who uses a computer at work for checking personal emails or private pottering on the internet, and anyone who uses a company PC or laptop at home, will be liable to pay the Computer Tax unless they can prove to the Revenue Dept. beyond a shadow of a doubt that the computer is used for work only and nothing else.
A £2,000 computer bought after 2006/04/06 will cost employees in the higher income tax band £160 more per year, and the employer will have to pay an extra £51.20.

Congestion Charging • This scam raised a lot of cash in London and other big cities are wondering about cashing in.
June 2005 Congestion Charges for rush-hour trains. Apparently, the Department of Transport has this weird notion that only rich people travel by train and paupers use buses. So they don't think any Labour supporters will be affected. The tax is necessary because the rail companies have been doing too good a job of selling their product and road pricing is expected to force a large number of poor motorists off the roads. Eventually, the government hopes to introduce Congestion Charging for pedestrians to stop people wandering around unnecessarily and make them stay at home, where the government can keep an eye on them with in-home CCTV [which will be installed as part of a multi-billion-pound scheme to crack down on antisocial behaviour.].

Dental Tax 1 • Despite increasing National Insurance, which is supposed to pay for the Health Service, the government is forcing dentists out of the NHS system and obliging their customers to seek private treatment via a dental plan costing, typically, £19 per month. [Thanks to N.B. for this one.]
Dental Tax 2 • 2006/04/01 The cost of a dental checkup on the NHS rose threefold from £5.54 to £15.50. The cost of a filling went up fourfold to £42.40 and the price of a gold crown doubled to £189.

'Didn't Vote' Tax • July 2005 Ge

Dividend Tax Credit • This allowance was abolished in 1997, reducing income to charities, pension funds and anyone living on income from dividends. Pension funds and non-taxpayera can no longer recover the tax credit on income from UK dividends. The effect has been described as compound interest in reverse as pension contributions must be increased to provide the same level of benefits.

Driving Licences • The cost of the driving test written test and the driving test itself have been increasing relentlessly, and now there is a charge for changing from a provisional licence to a full licence. [Thanks to N.B. for this one.]
Driving Licence Photocard Tax : From 2008, driving licences will have to carry a photograph to comply with EU regulations. The government is offering 3 options:
1. An extra charge of £3 for everyone, which is expected to rise to £10 very quickly;
2. First-time drivers will pay for everyone and the cost of a driving licence will rise from £38 to £68; and
3. The cost of a driving licence will rise to £45 and the cost of registering a new car will rise from £38 to £45.

Excise Duty • Consistently raised above the rate of inflation on tobacco and alcohol, tax of fuel and fares.

Fines, More Widespread Use • Everything from motoring offences, anti-social behaviour, truancy and binge drinking is seen as a means of raising revenue by New Labour.

Fiscal Drag • Gordon Brown, seeking to fill the monstrous Black Hole which he has created in the nation's finances, is adjusting tax bands relative to an inflation rate which has been massaged down rather than the rate of increase of earnings. As a result, 3 million of the 28 million taxpayers are paying the 40% rate, an increase of around 10% since Gordon Brown became Chancellor.
Fiscal drag includes Stamp Duty on property purchases, which is now at five times the 1997 level (£3,600 million compared to £675 million) and twice as many people are paying it as in 1997 (1,200,000 versus 607,000).
Inheritance Tax is another growth area. Thanks to the government's failure to allow for rising house prices, it has risen 75% since 1997 to £2.8billion per year.
Income tax has doubled under New Labour due to Fiscal drag – Chancellor Brown's policy of not raising tax thresholds year by year. The amount of income tax for 2006/07 will reach 109% of the amount raised in 1996/97. [£145 billion compared to £69 billion]

Free Travel Tax • Gordon Brown announced free off-peak travel for people of 60 and older in the 2006 budget. But he failed to provide the cash to pay for the scheme. So Council Tax and/or fares had to go up to bridge the gap.

Home Information Pack Tax • July 2005 From 2007/06/01, New Labour will require home owners to give prospective buyers details of their dwelling's structural condition, title deeds, energy-use efficiency, planning consent status (if applicable), e.g. for a conservatory, and details of guarantees for central heating, double glazing, etc. Reports for the packs will be compiled by 7,500 home inspectors, who will join New Labour's vast army of public servants with jobs that make them indebted to the Labour party.
March 2006 The information in these packs will be 'stored electronically' and made available to inspectors looking for excuses to raise the Council Tax on homes which have been improved or repair

Identity Tax • After getting us used to Stealth Taxes, the government wants to give its customers Stealth ID cards by building personal data into passports and driving licences, which will cost at least £35 more than the current price as they will become multi-purpose documents. Anyone who doesn't drive and who isn't planning to go aboard will be required to buy a straight ID card for £35.
October/November 2004 The idea of adding biometric data to passports and driving licences to turn them into identity cards has been junked. The latest big idea to come out of the Home Office is a stand-alone biometric ID card. Everyone will have to have one, paying a Stealth Tax of £35, but no one will be obliged to carry it.
So anyone wanting a passport in and after 2007 will have to pay £85 for a non-biometric passport, which will be valid for 5 years. The price includes the £35 Stealth Tax for a biometric ID card, which will be valid for 10 years. [See also Stealth Tax 88 above.]
At present, a passport valid for 10 years costs £42. As a result of the changes and Stealth Taxes, travellers wanting the same deal will have to pay £135 for two 5-year passports plus a 10-year biometric ID card.
May 2005 : The government's first guess was £5.8 billion for the cost of the ID card scheme. A more realistic estimate is that the cost is on course for being 3 times as much at around £18 billion. And if the scheme has to be self-financing, the government will have to charge £300 per card! If the government chooses to conceal the true cost of the card by sneaking in taxpayers' money from another account, then card-holders can still expect to be ripped off. This year's guess for the cost of a card is £93, which is 20% up on the guess for 2004. So the likely price in 2008, when everyone applying for one of the new biometric passports will be obliged to get an ID card as well, is £160.
December 2005 : The price of a standard passport was raised from £42 to £51.<

• The Home Office says that card readers will cost £250-750. A more realistic estimate of the cost is £3,0000-4,000 each.
• Processing a card and its owner will take about a minute. So anyone at the back of a queue of 30 people will have to hang around for half an hour – assuming everything goes smoothly with the verification process for the other people in the queue.
July 2006 : The price of a standard passport will be raised from £51 to £66 on October 5th, an annual rate of increase of 62%. Part of the increase is to pay for biometric identity-card data, even though New Labour's ID card plans are in disarray and unlikely to be implemented as planned.
December 2006 : Fines connected with ID cards will go to the government's coffers for general spending, not toward running the ID card scheme. They will include £1,000 for failing to surrender a dead relative's card within an arbitrary period and the same amount for failing to supply 'all current addresses', which is aimed at students living away from home.
There will be a £30 fee for a new ID card for married women who take their husband's name, which is expected to generate £9 million per year, and the same fee for a replacement driving licence to replace one lost or stolen, which is expected to yield £30 million per year.

Hospital Car Parking • Our correspondent C.O. has pointed out: "At our local hospital, parking over the last four years has increased from £1 per 24 hours (come and go, midnight to midnight) to £2 (maybe more now) for every visit of more that 30 minutes." This is a shameless tax on the sick.

Information Tax • The Chancellor is planning fees of £50-575 for material made available when the Freedom of Information Act comes into force in January 2005. The fees will be 666% to 958% higher than those given in the Bill which Tony Bliar and his cronies placed before Parliament.

Inheritance Trust Tax • From 2006 Anyone who tries to pass on savings and property (all taxed to the hilt by New Labour) via a trust will have to pay out 6% of the inheritance every 10 years plus massive entry and exit penalties. New tax changes will force a change in the inheritance age from 25 down to 18 if people want the trust to remain tax-free. The tax will attack life insurance police. It will also grab from the assets of those who die intestate and terminally ill people who make a settlement, and also from trusts created as a result of court orders arising from divorce cases.
There will be a Will Tax as a spin-off from the trust tax as a million or so people will have to have their will redrafted to take account of the new tax laws – at an average cost of £250 a time.
June 2006 – Chancellor does U-turn
1. The exemption allowing assets left to a spouse in a trust in a will is to stay free of Inheritance Tax.
2. Children receiving the contents of a trust will be liable 'only for a small tax change' if they inherit between the ages of 18 and 25. The charge will still be 6% for every 10 years but the clock will start when the child reaches 18, not when the trust is set up.
The remaining tax grabs remain in place.

Licensing & Registration Fees • Thanks to New Labour's willingness to go along with any new red tape that the Eurocrats of Brussels dream up, more and more people are having to pay a registration fee for being allowed to do their job – doormen, electricians and school dinner ladies to name but a few. And homeowners, who allow a job to be done by someone who isn't licensed to carry out electrical work in the home, are liable to

#236 Tarten Army
Thanks for the info.I must have developed selective reading,agenda's seem to change by the week,or the speaker.

Even further, pubs, clubs, restaurants, takeaway shops which serve food after 11 p.m., concert halls, village halls and any venue which holds events at which drinks are served are all required to renew their licence this year because New Labour changed the rules in 2003/4. And as this process involves a lot wrestling with jargon-filled forms, and time is running out for the August 2005 deadline for filing applications, there's a shambles in the making.
Anyone who misses the August deadline will find things get a whole lot more complicated for the October filing date, and the government will require them to jump through a lot more hoops. Worse, as processing the forms involves a lot of work, councils will have to shove up their Council Tax to pay for it. [Thanks to V.M. for this theme.]

Manure Recycling Tax • Riding stables and other businesses using horses have to buy a licence to make compost (used as fertiliser) from horse manure. And from 2005/07/01, businesses doing so will have to spend thousands of pounds on installing a leakproof concrete flooring beneath muck heaps with a sealed holding tank for the liquid which runs off.
The average horse produces around 9 metric tons of manure per year. Muck heaps of between 5-50 metric tons will cost £252 for the first year and £174 for subsequent years. Heaps of 50-400 metric tons will cost £482 for the first year then £402 per year. Manure has been composted and spread on farmland for thousands of years. It has taken New Labour until 2005 to identify this source of a new stealth tax. [Thanks to V.M.]

Married Couples' Allowance • This allowance cut further in 1998 (after being reduced by the Tories) and abolished completely in 1999.

Mortgage Interest Relief • Cut in 1997 then abolished in 2000.

National Insurance • The rates were increased by 1% plus a new charge on income above the previous upper cut-off limit.

National Lottery, The • Chancellor Gordon Brown is breaking the rules for the lottery by diverting profits to the NHS and Education. This money should be raised by direct taxation and stealing from lottery funds reflects New Labour's fundamentally dishonest attitude to taxation. And what next? A lottery precept to pay for the illegal war in Iraq?
June 2005 The government has already diverted National Lottery cash to irregular purposes such as training teachers and school librarians, buying hospital equipment, buying fruit for school meals and the Jamie Oliver school meals improvement plan. The next step is using the National Lottery Bill 2005 to take formal government control of the Big Lottery Fund, which distributes one-half of lottery profits. The Bill will allow government ministers to set the amounts of grants and specify which causes can have a grant.
In 1997, Tony Blair said: "We do not believe it would be right to use lottery money to pay for things (health, education & the environment) which are the government's responsibility." But he seems happy enough about breaking that promise in 2005.

Noisy Pub Tax • October 2006 Pubs & clubs which create a noise nuisance between 23:00 and 07:00 on one single nice face either an on-the-spot fine of £500 or a fine of up to £5,000 if prosecuted successfully. The tax is a form of apology from New Labour for wishing a 24-hour drinking culture on the country.

Passport Tax • The government's ambition used to be to build identity card data into passports but the wheels are coming off this scheme due to practical difficulties over collecting, storing securely and verifying the data. Even though plans to go biometric are in disarray, the price rises to pay for a programme which isn't happening continue to go ahead. Thus the price of a standard passport went up from £42 to £51 in December 2005, and a further increase to £66 on October 5th 2006 was announced in July.
If the

#245 Duncan

Stop cutting and pasting in SNP policy and try thinking for yourself.

If you think ID cards will be costly do you think there will be no cost in issuing Scottish passports establishing righst of citzenship - for all the residents and the diaspora?
Have the SNP costed that?

BTW the are the SNP pledging to reverse all of the stealth taxes raised by Labour or are you just whining?

Peak-Time Rail Fare Supplement : When he was Transport Sec. in 2005, Alistair Darling did an under-the-counter deal with new train operator First allowing them to double fares on busy routes in the London area. Cheap day return tickets were rendered invalid between 4:30 and 7 p.m. as a means of forcing poor people off overcrowded trains. South-West Trains also has the same deal for some of its services.

Pensions • The Chancellor's assaults on the pensions industry have removed £5billion per year via abolished tax concessions and made worthwhile personal pensions unaffordable for many people.
Pension & Means Testing • The more the customer saves, the lower the nett private pension he/she will receive after means testing to determine his/her entitlement to a supplement to the state pension. In effect, savings are taxed at a rate of 40-100% and most people would be better off enjoying a higher standard of life during their working life instead of depriving themselves by saving for their old age.
'Anyone not in the top 40% of earnings is wasting their time putting money into pensions savings if the present policies continue.' – Help The Aged
Pension Tax Relief • Flexibility rules were abolished to stop people taking advantage of unused allowances from previous years.
Pension Term Assurance Tax Relief • December 2006 pre-budget statement To be abolished on new policies and >80% of any pension fund (Alternatively Secured Pension) bequeathed to children to be grabbed by the Treasury.

Planning Tax • January 2005 Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott wants planning fees to go up. So, for example, the fee for a domestic extension will rise 23% from £110 to £135; the fee for a new house will go up 20% from £220 to £265; and the maximum charge for a housing estate will rocket by 355% from £11,000 to £50,000.
Planning Gain Supplement Tax • February 2006 If someone gets planning permission for an extension or a new building, t

Poor Performance Penalties • When the government's regulators impose fines and poor performance penalties on the railways, the post office, bus companies, etc., fares and prices go up to cover the cost of the penalty. And if the service provider promises to provide a better level of service, the regulator can sanction higher than justified price rises to 'encourage improved service standards'.
Businesses can be hit by all sorts of fines ranging from penalties for failing to meet targets to punitive fines for causing death(s) through negligence. If no particular individual is blamed, and charged separately, then the fine is passed to the customer. Or, if this is not done, then the firm goes out of business, increasing unemployment and its collateral costs, and reducing services still further. [Thanks to V.M.]

Premium Bond Tax : From June 2006, the government is dipping in to the premium bond prize fund to the tune of over £1 million per month. The amount distributed in May was £76.6 million. The amount due for distribution in June is just £75.4 million as a result of a stealth tax of £1.2 million.

Premium Rate Phone Lines • Nine government departments (at the last count) are using 0870 lines as their sole means of direct contact by the public, who are charged 10p/minute for calling from a landline or up to 35p/minute from a mobile phone. HM Revenue & Customs collected £2.4 million from its 0870 numbers in 2005 and the DVLA "help line" raked in £2.3 million. The Home Office, the DTI, the Foreign Office, the Dept. of Education & Skills, the Dept. for Constitutional Affairs and DEFRA are also operating this scam.
Some departments, our correspondent M.K. lists the Inland Revenue and the Pensions Service, use the 'soft premium' 0845 numbers, which cost ntl customers 5p/minute on a landline from October 2006 – plus the rip-off connection charge.

Recycling Tax, Failure to Recycle • August 2004 The government is plann

I don't know if anyone mentioned this above as there are way to many posts to get through in a lunch break.

Surely the problem Scotland has, and this is whether independent or not, is getting quality people into the parliament and the executive to be able to run the country well.

The impression you get is that too many of them are career politicians with little or no idea of the real world. So either they will be incompitent or will be as slimy, smarmy and self serving as Blair, Brown, McConnell et al.

The other point I'd make from not much north of the border is that most English folk don't care whether Scotland is independent or not. Most of them, rightly, get p***** off at the incompetencies of the Westminster brigade more than what Scotland is up to.

#215 DaveJ
I couldnt beleive the crap that Tony Blair was coming out with accusing Sir George as being Self indulgent and absurd, why is that Tony, he he being absurd in not believing the Labour lies, after all Labour is the god send to all people isnt it! (not)
Watched the press conference he had on the BBC Scotland news at lunchtime, with Pimpernel Jack simpering in the background, saying nothing
Blair coming out with that old nutmeg, that independence would endanger families, breaking them up. He stated '"You talk to real businesses, talk to the types of people I have just been addressing, and look at the impact of separation on real businesses and real families"
So Blair what real business have you been talking to, if any? or the 'types' of people, you mean labour supporters!
So Blair has clearly no respect for for Scottish businesses or businessmen that support independence. And belittles the likes of Sir George Mathewson, who made RBS what it is today a global brand, that all Scots are proud off, wether they bank with them or not.
The message is clear for Labour, you either support them and the union or your classed as being absurd and self indulgent.
Well give me absurd and self indulgent every time as for me Scotland comes first, Labour and Blair can take a hike

Road Tax • Is consistenly raised above the rate of inflation.

Savings Credit Tax : Pensioners with a low income and modest savings receive a savings credit on every pound of income between the basic state pension and the guaranteed minimum pension (currently £114.05 per week). Chancellor Gordon Brown is planning to increase the basic pension in future years but use fiscal drag to reduce the amount awarded as the savings credit. As a result, pensioners on low incomes can expect to see their total pension drop in the period between 2007 and 2050.

Small Sailing Craft Tax • A registration fee on all previously unregistered small sailing craft as an 'anti-terrorism', cash-raising wheeze.

Speed Cameras • The money raised from them is either used to buy more cameras or paid to the Treasury. As the government has no intention of removing cameras from sites where the death and serious injury rate rises after the camera is installed, it is obvious that speed cameras are there to raise revenue by stealth rather than to improve road safety.
February 2005 The revenue from speed camera fines in 2003/4 was up 63% compared to receipts in 2002/3.

Stakeholder Pension Tax • November 2004 Having stolen £5 billion per year from pension funds every year since 1997, the Chancellor is planning to make employer contributions to its stakeholder pensions compulsory, which will cost the country an estimated £22 billion per year and constitute a Stealth Tax on jobs.

Stamp duty • The rate of this tax has been pushed up since 1997 but the thresholds have been maintained at unrealistic levels, given the large increases in house prices. The lowest threshold was a mere £60,000 until the 2005 Budget, when it was raised to £120,000. The increase in the £2006 Budget was a paltry £5,000 to the present rate of £125,000.
In 2007, the rates are:
• No tax on house sales up to £125,000
• 1% on houses valued at £125,000 to £250,000
• 3% on hous

LETS NOT MISS THE PENSIONERS ANOTHER NICE SOFT TARGET FOR NU LABOUR TORIES.

State Second Pension Tax 1 : The government is planning to limit the amount paid out as the State Second Pension (S2P) but not the amount raked in as National Insurance contributions. At present, NI collected on income up to £34,000 counts towards the S2P. New Labour plans to collect NI at the same rate on income above this threshold, but not provide further pension benefits in return. Thus all contributions above the S2P threshold will become just another Stealth Tax.
State Second Pension Tax 2 : At present, people have the right to contract out of the S2P and have the NI contributions paid into a private pension. Gordon Brown intends to abolish this concession.

Tax-free savings • The upper level for savings which can be made in each year has been reduced relentlessly. The limit for PEPs/TESSA was £12,000 (£9,000 for PEPs and £3,000 for the first year of a TESSA). They were replaced with the ISA and an annual limit of £7,000, now reduced to £5,000. And PEPs and ISAs can no longer recover the tax credit on UK dividends.

Time Limits • The time limits for paying many fines, e.g. those for speeding and parking, have been drastically reduced. As a result, the government is taxing more people with its increased ranges of fines and also extracting charges for late payments. [Thanks to V.M. for this one.]

Utility charges • The prices of gas, electricity, water, public transport, the BBC licence fee, etc. are all being allowed to soar above the rate of inflation.

VAT • Every time the government raises the duty on tobacco, fuel, vehicles, etc., there is always VAT to pay on top.

Vehicle Insurance Premium Tax • In 1999, the law was changed to let NHS trusts reclaim treatment costs from motor insurance companies in cases where fault had been established and compensation paid. Insurance premiums have risen by at least £5 per year to pay for the charging regime.
Before 1999 hospitals could only recoup £21 from road accident victims towards the cost of their treatment. The 1999 act set fixed rates of more than £400 per day for patients who were not admitted, and more than £500 for those forced to stay in hospital.
In March 2004, the rates were raised, allowing hospitals to recover up to £34,800 per case. As a result some major hospitals are now claiming more than £500,000 a year from insurance companies. In effect, patients are now paying twice for the NHS – through both taxes and increased insurance premiums.

Vehicle Registration Tax • September 2004 An annual registration fee of £4.50 per year for all cars whether or not they are on the road.

Vehicle Tracking Tax • May 2005 In exchange for cuts (not abolition) in fuel tax and the cost of the road fund licence, motorists will have to pay several hundred pounds to have their vehicle fitted with a tracking device, which will record where they go using a satellite navigation system. They will then have to pay (monthly?) anything from 2p/mile on rural roads to £1.34/mile for inner London.
The scheme will cost £3 billion per year to run and the government is lying about it already, saying it will be 'revenue neutral'. At present, Britain's motorists pay £40 billion/year in taxes, of which only £6 billion is spent on the road network.

Yesterday I suggested in a discussion that the proposal by the SNP to cut Corporation tax in an Independent Scotland just could be a big thank you from a former economist at the RBS to his erstwhile employers.

Today we have the FORMER chairman of the RBS giving his PERSONAL support to the SNP,

you couldn't make it up. !

AND IF THE SCOTS LET THEM BACK THERE IS MUCH MORE TO COME.
On the cards:
Second Home Tax : New Labour would like to see owners of second homes paying a special TRIPLE rate of Council Tax – to which could be added an Absentee Tax on homes left unoccupied for 6-8 months per year.

Nuclear Tax : Every household will have to pay an extra £3,400 on its electricity bills over the next 20 years (£170 per year) to pay for new nuclear power stations and nuclear waste disposal.

Crime Tax : Lord Goldsmith, the New Labour Attorney General, would like to let violent criminals and people arrested in possession of drugs and knives & other offensive weapons buy their way out of a gaol sentence and a criminal record by stumping up £500 to the government's coffers.

Bed Tax : The government is eager to add a further 10% tax to hotel bills – in addition to VAT (currently 17.5%). The tax would make Britain the highest taxed holiday destination in Europe.

Insulation Tax : Householders who fail to have their windows double-glazed, and their loft and cavity walls insulated, will have to pay more Council Tax for causing global warming. Those have made their home more energy-efficient might just get a rebate (but don't hold your breath).

Obesity Tax : To be applied to 'junk' foods in the name of combatting obesity and getting the nation 'fighting fit for the Olympics'.

Global Warming Airline Tax (a.k.a. Skyway) : The amount of the tax will vary according to the distance flown, e.g. £10 for a trip to Europe rising to £50 for a journey to the United States. Foreign Sec. Margaret Bucket thinks this tax will prevent Britain from descending into 'climage chaos'.

Planning Gain Supplement : Announced in the 2006 December pre-budget report, this is a new stealth tax (to be introduced within 3 years) on land sold by home owners to developers based on the difference between value of the land itself, and the value of the land with planni

Duncan
Stop cutting and pasting in SNP policy and try thinking for yourself.

If you think ID cards will be costly do you think there will be no cost in issuing Scottish passports establishing righst of citzenship - for all the residents and the diaspora?
Have the SNP costed that?

BTW the are the SNP pledging to reverse all of the stealth taxes raised by Labour or are you just whining?

Duncan
Stop cutting and pasting in SNP policy and try thinking for yourself.

If you think ID cards will be costly do you think there will be no cost in issuing Scottish passports establishing righst of citzenship - for all the residents and the diaspora?
Have the SNP costed that?

BTW the are the SNP pledging to reverse all of the stealth taxes raised by Labour or are you just whining?

Duncan
Stop cutting and pasting in SNP policy and try thinking for yourself.

If you think ID cards will be costly do you think there will be no cost in issuing Scottish passports establishing righst of citzenship - for all the residents and the diaspora?
Have the SNP costed that?

BTW the are the SNP pledging to reverse all of the stealth taxes raised by Labour or are you just whining?

Duncan
Stop cutting and pasting in SNP policy and try thinking for yourself.

If you think ID cards will be costly do you think there will be no cost in issuing Scottish passports establishing righst of citzenship - for all the residents and the diaspora?
Have the SNP costed that?

BTW the are the SNP pledging to reverse all of the stealth taxes raised by Labour or are you just whining?

Duncan
Stop cutting and pasting in SNP policy and try thinking for yourself.

If you think ID cards will be costly do you think there will be no cost in issuing Scottish passports establishing righst of citzenship - for all the residents and the diaspora?
Have the SNP costed that?

BTW the are the SNP pledging to reverse all of the stealth taxes raised by Labour or are you just whining?

Somebody get that spammer Duncan banned.

Mr Matthewson has just echoed my feelings on devolution.The key to getting the economy going is
for full independence and a Government running the
country for the needs of Scots. There are serious structural problems that need addressed locally and
the Parliament needs to attract the best brains. I find it quite ironic the best businessman in Scotland is an Engineer.

In Blair's response to the media today he attempted to degrade the worth of Sir George Mathewson as not being "a real business man" compared to the ones he (Tony Blair) speaks to .... like the Saudi Arabians !!!

269 - You are so Dull!

271 Il Penserosa - don’t you mean the ones he is in the pay of ha ha ha !

Tony Liar !

Let's hope they start taxing internet postings too. Idiot.

Everyone slags off Labour but they gave us what we wanted - increased taxes for more spending on health and education. Was it just me who voted for them the first couple of times?

I only switched to SNP after that Iraq debacle ... hey, that rhymes!

#251 DOH. You continue to emulate your super hero. My sons introduced me to Bart Simpson and I am a big fan. I think I will join your fan club also. Between you and the AM thingy you have made this forum really entertaining and I thank you for that. Please both of you do not change your id again you are fine as you are.
DOH, I have suggested this to you before, use the preview button and read what you are writing. The cut and paste job I have just done, described by you as SNP policy, for God's sake, do you read or understand anything? I am showing people what a stealthy lying deceitful con has been played on UK tax payers, by a party that came to power on a pledge not to raise income tax, a cheap nasty con trick, which the voters will not forget.
After your "piece de resistance," came your "coup de grâce," "start thinking for yourself."
It has taken me some time to compose my self after that one.
If your post is an example of you thinking for your self, then I am surprised you make it to the keyboard. I would have thought that someone with the skills to operate a PC and connect with the WWW would be capable of much more originality. Keep posting DOH, you do wonders for my moral. Scotland and the SNP needs you. You have to be a party member?

#272 Jean

I think he meant to say "spanner".

What about California seperating from the USA - so that Arnie can become its first President?

I'm sure there must be a historical precedent.

I'm sure Mr Mathewson will be okay in independent Scotland but he will want some pay-back in the form of very low taxation for his bank. What does this mean for Scotland's ageing population?

AM Glasgow #268 You really do talk drivel. We've already had eighteen years of Conservative, disastrous management. In my life, never a Liberal government and if those Libs. representing us at Holyrood are anything to be judged, I hope never. Labour, as I knew it, is no more, so what is wrong with a centre left party now considered politically and financially acceptable to the likes of Sir George Mathewson being trusted?

Jean @ 273 Precisely! The same gang of thugs!

Actually the Scottish economy will never realise it's full potential until the most three important elements - Govt, industry and the financial sector - are pulling together in the same direction.

This is why Norway and other countries have succeeded where Scotland - and the UK for that matter - have failed.

To that end it's encouraging to read what Mathewson has to say although it should be pointed out that his successors at RBS have never shown the slightest inclination to wave the Scottish flag other than by sponsoring rugby.

#272

Go cry then.

Well said Sir George, may many more top business men come out and say bravely what you have said.

Wonderful news today.

In one corner we have Sir George, a factually eminent economist, highly respected and admired.
In the other corner we have Bliar,Brown,Reid and other scum who try to dictate our lives.
Who is telling the truth or who do we believe?.
No contest, - Sir George is a knock-out and wins by a knock-out.

Scotland: a bairn still at school,
So, let the English master rule

#282

"NO-ONE does comedy better than the English."

Please add Simon Pegg to your list.

I agree the English gifts to the world has been their language, humour, football and of course tartan.

What about independance for Texas?

As long as Scottish independence doesn't stop me putting up your rents, then go ahead.

270: What's ironic about top businessmen being Engineers? If we had more people with an engineering background running the country, we'd be in a far better position than leaving it to lawyers and accountants. I speak as a Chartered Engineer so maybe I'm biased, but engineering teaches you to think through problems and solve them.

Engineers for Independence: that has a nice ring to it....

#279

/ {:>0 Ow!

[hollow thud]

(289)
OK, correct, studied and qualifed as an engineer, - will you accept that he (Sir George) became one of the most admired and respected 'businessmen' of his day?
At any rate my real point is that he has more 'savvy' about business and economy than most politicians, and certainly more than our dictators in Westminster and Holyrood .

WONDERFUL NEWS FOR THE S.N.P.
( COME THE HOUR COMETH THE MAN).

LETS GO FOR IT SCOTLAND.

NOW WE HAVE LOGIC THINKING FROM THE HEAD. ( FROM A MAN WHOSE KNOWS THAT ITS POSSIBLE FOR US TO RUN OUR OWN AFFAIRS FINACIALLY).

NOT JUST EMOTIONAL FEELINGS FROM THE HEART. AS FROM THE FAMOUS SEAN CONNERY.

ROLL ON THE MAY ELECTIONS.

AS BURNS WOULD SAY ABOUT OUR PRESENT PARLIAMENT - ( SIC A PARCEL O` ROGUES IN A NATION).

76. Aged SNP Voter

Aha! I voted in that poll, I was wondering who comissioned it and when I would hear the results.

I was in the majority then, good stuff.

#101

Britain is not a country as you state it is a geographical area like the far east, scandinavia etc etc.

The other benefits you forgot to mention are ethic cleansing, mass slaughter post culloden, cannon foder for the empire, the systematic eroding of the gaelic tongue.

The list is endless.

Independence please

#294 Robin,

Politcians dont run businesses they make laws and represent the people. Thats democracy.

#296 Masie - you voted SNP in a poll done by then SNP. Blimey.

#297 The Antifascist

Hey Antifascist. Why dont you change your name to Lord Elgin?

He's lost his marbles as well!

This is a re-post of an earlier note.

I always felt that George Mathewson (PhD Elec Eng) was a first class chief executive of the Scottish Development Agency, aside from his exemplary performance at RBS. It seemed to me the old SDA was very effective in attracting high technology companies and in many ways showed the way for Ireland. When George moved on we held our breath in Silicon Glen and it is now but a shadow.

We are well aware how successful Ireland has been, leaping past Scotland. (It is not true to say this is a result of EU subsides which are a but small part of the total investment). Ireland has invested greatly in a range incentives for incoming business, winning inward investment at the expense of Scotland and moreover, retaining it. In the world of Strictly Scottish Commercial Dancing we have four left feet and are left to wonder at Riverdance.

We have lost our way in a fog of complacency. There is an enormous iceberg out there called economic failure and we are just shuffling the deckchairs. We are preoccupied with how well or badly the deckchairs have been shuffled, who should shuffle the deckchairs next, dare we cut off our bit of deck to shuffle on. Meantime the country is sinking.

The priorities are Economy, Economy, Economy.

I would dearly like to see George Mathewson take a hand, and a big hand, in showing the way again. Scotland needs an injection of must do and can do like never before. The political leader that can make that happen gets my vote. The leader that tells me it will be damned hard work and it will cost money gets my vote

299, DOH

What a pure tosser you are, I wasnt aware who the poll was comissioned was, for all I knew it could have been any of the parties or even the media.. you are such a blatant sh*t stirrer, what is it you get out of putting people down on this board, its a good job we all see you for what you are, I should really have just ignored you but just want to let you know I despise you.

Doh

The poll was commissioned by the SNP but "conducted" by Yougov, which carries out polls for a great many others.

Its sad that you hold the views you do

Doh, Anti-Fascist, Royster, Sedov and AM!

Were you to knock their heads together youd be lucky to find a Scotsman!

Well said Maisie! 269 Doh Aptly named - enough said.

Personally, I'd rather go to hell in my own handcart than be pushed there by England...it is time we had the courage to take control and if there is a risk, so be it!

303 - Or a brain for that matter! (But I bet you'd find an orangeman, a pound to a penny)

#302 Masie
"What a pure tosser you are"

Well I practice a lot. I think you are letting your feelings to me cloud your poor judgement. You sound like you have just been jilted.

#303 Maxie1

What about after UDI all members of the SNP are awarded a medal and given a small pension from the government in recognition of your struggle.

Duncan can get an award for free thinking.

305. Eddie D

"How much more lies, deceit and propaganda will be put out in the weeks approaching the Scottish Parliament elections by this discredited Labour Government."

I myself expect a bucket load of lies, deceit and propaganda, so much so that I feel they could even reel out another 'terrorist' threat to scare us, wouldnt put it past Labour at all, there is too much at stake here for them.

There is so much at stake for us Scots as well, it looks likely that England will vote Tory next election, if we do not vote SNP, we are beween a rock and a hard place. What will become of us then?

#303 Gill

probably!

But did you hear the joke about the Englishman, the Englishman and the Irishman?

305* most excellent post!

yeah, right on, citizen smith, it 'reeks of fascism'.

lay off the pot.

311. The Antifascist

Many Psychologists could be right, there again, they could be wrong!

No doubt some people have an inferiority complex but others are perfectly well balanced in just wanting to stand on their own feet come what may.

Cannot for the life of me see where facism fits in though?

AM: "303 Gill: Actually, I'm an agnostic, married to a Scottish Catholic and with kids being raised at least nominally RC. How many orangemen do you know fitting that description? But why let facts get in the way of your fun?"

Me thinks thou dost protest too much.

I doubt very much whether any of this is true - and, to be honest, I don't care - and you should not care either (that you do says it all).

#311 The Anti-Fascist

Thanks for your pearl of wisdom about the basic human right of self-determination being a psychological problem!

I had no Idea the Danes, Dutch, Belgians, French, Italians, Irish, Norwegians, Swededs, Finns, Portueguese, Swiss, Greeks, Estonians, Latvians. Lithuathians, were all psychologically damaged?

In fact there must be thousands of psychologically damaged nations all over the world!

Dont tell me!

Have you got to be governed from London in order for you not to be psychologically damaged?

Thought so!

Perhaps you might also name these psychologists that make such claims?

I would like to question such a fascist proposal if indeed they are expounded that.

Ghandi was a nationalist.

Nelson Mandela was a nationalist

Any basic understanding of history would have told you that!

Tosser, stupid, liar.

Welcome to the new Scotland.

#96 - You are joking - we want independence more than you do - check the polls. If you go we lose Labour for good, it's you lefties who have kept them in power.

Again Doh,

You are ever only prepared to see one side and ignore the equally as strong language that comes from your own unionist side!

And in fact. This is not yet a "new" Scotland but the same Scotland that it has always been! Such a comment doesnt in fact make sense!

#319 Maxie1

Ghandi, Mandela - you missed out Salmond.

The first two struggled for human rights rather than nationalism, South Africe was actually an independant country.

We can rename George Square - Sturgeon Square,
Princess Street can become Salmond Street.
Actually stuff that -lets rename Livingston Salmond City.

Thanks Malc, for keeping the side up, whilst I was away making hubby's dinner. I couldn't have put it better myself!
Once a Unionist....always a fool, it would seem (and easily wound up at that!)
Tiocfaidh ar La - AM!

Sorry Doh.

Such nonsense isnt worth commenting on!

PS - PORKY, awra best man. I hope you get it - and soon!

From the bbc:-

Liberal Democrat MP Malcolm Bruce said it was "well known" that Sir George supported the SNP, and had campaigned for the Nationalists in 1970.

"It is unfortunate that the SNP spin machine is using certain sections of the media to present this as some sort of conversion, in order to score political points,"

Maybe the Scotsman should give us all the facts. This is all just an SNP stunt after all. Poor journalism!!

#321

How apt.

If Scotland gets rid of England then Scotland shall have no more Nuclear Weapons.

Nuclear weapons have been forced on the people of Scotland by English MP's.

A Majority (and a big one at that) of Scottish MP's voted NO to Trident renewal and I suspect that the only ones who voted yes (19 of them I think) are probably three quarters of the UK cabinet.

English hypocrisy yet again.

Heres the people behind fascism :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8coxnHKaplk

#323 famous15

What did I say???

Anyway if you are talking about Poland, there are plenty Poles in Scotland. I think they are coming here to take jobs in our economy - which is is presumably in better shape than their own - is that despite our membership of the union?
Maybe sedov could comment on this.
sedov4leader

Great to hear such positive comments from Sir George. When I hear some of our other business leaders foretell doom and gloom if we were independent, I'm not too sure what they are telling me:

Is it that 300 years of the Union have left Scotland in such a poor state that we could not survive and prosper in today's world?

Or is that they do not have the business acumen to compete with business people in other countries where a small population and independent status do not appear to be barriers to success?

I'm only surprised you are surprised Ferrylad. What else would you expect from the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation OR Malcolm Bruce?!
I'd trust a thief with my dosh before I'd trust a Liberal Democrat with my country!

I don't mind you blaming the English for all your problems, but for f#cks sake remember that leaders of the Westminster lot are mostly scottish - and precisely what you will get (and deserve) when you are independent

#326

I concur.

It is truly laughable the lengths that the Unionist will now stoop to.

They can see that they are now Rats on a sinking ship.

Doh, I wonder how funny you will be feeling come 4th of May. No very I suggest and I for one shall toast with a dram of our finest when that day comes.

See Scotland Doh, the door is over there is you should want to leave us at any time, nobody here will try and stop you..xx

#143
As I said BLAIR is Scottish, so take the blame yourselves

333 I'd agree with you there. I despise any party that did stand behind me when I was risking all in Iraq!

Imagine those dastardly SNP types getting publicity from people that are nationalist!

You dont see Labour people supporting the Labour party and Lib-Dem people supporting the Lib-Dems.

Its a conspiracy.

I demand a recount!

#322 Maxie

There are plenty fruit loops in favour of the union -
but on balance most of the arguments against independance are more tempered, not just complete rants, cut an pasted from some other web site or end in some vapid political slogan.
For example:

Its teatime.

sedov4leader

#334,

where on this debate have you seen much about us blaming the English for anything?

I did just blame the English for placing the burden of Nuclear weapons on Scotland, a decision which the elected representatives of the Scottish people voted overwhelmingly NO too.

But then the English like to shout about REALLY important matters like top up fees and feck the NUCLEAR ARSENAL!!

Get real. Blair is no more Scottish, than he is a Socialist, Porky!

He may have been educated at Fettes, but if a pig is born in a stable, you still canni canni call it a horse!

Porky Blair is as English as you can get so dry your eyes.

Also most Scots dont blame England for anything although with people like you contributing you are hardly making the English look intelligent!

Its good to see someone of such business standing come out with an opinion on Independance one way or the other.

When I was younger most pro-independance people appeared a little bigoted and had the chip on the shoulder. These days its the Unionists and Anti-Scots English that have all those attributes.

Its probably a reflection on who is winning the argument. I dont believe the public at large know the whole argument and I think if a referendum were held tommorrow Scotland would stay in the Union.

I dont mind the Union as a concept but I dont like the way its been used.

Ill be voting SNP for the first time in 10+ years this May even if as a party they are not really for me - they are the only ones with some sort of positive input that can make a decent change - whether they will is a different matter.

Brilliant music vid :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUJE49-u1aM&mode=relat...=

#340

Rats on a sinking ship!! I see plenty of Nazi/BNP looking types in Scotland, just they tend to go to their place of worship (Ibrox) and tend to wear a Union Flag round them........

Rather Ironic no?

#355 Mark1
"Doh, I wonder how funny you will be feeling come 4th of May."

I'll be fine thanks, I beleive in democracy regardless of the result.

"See Scotland Doh, the door is over there is you should want to leave us at any time, nobody here will try and stop you..xx"

Ethnic cleansing? Or would you rather I just wore a red,white an blue triangle? Facist.

Anti Fascist,

I suggest you drop the pretext "Anti" from your name.

You sound very much like a British nationalist to me and a not very well educated one at that.

The swaztika is an ancient "Indian" symbol.

The SNP symbol, like the Greepeace symbols, and many others is a runic symbol.

You are just a plain daftie!

#348

you are funny!

I didn't suggest you left because you are a Unionist, just thought you may prefer to live elsewhere given you attitude for this county.

I would expect your tickets for the Broomloan End would be snapped up too without to many problems.

Toodlepip.

it's time...... to stop saying it's time

stupid slogan. time that bunch of culloden peter pans grew up and realised that there is no need to shake the boat. anyway whether or not snp win, independence will NEVER happen in next 500 years. they wont have a ref anyway as tom farmer said by which time they will be booted out after one term as dont have a traditional support base - any win this time will merely be a blair protest vote.

it's time to smell the coffee - internet, no job clowns (why are all you nats not contributing to the econmomy and spending all day on a board you only read?) . should be thinkin how you are going to get heard in glasgow cos you got laughed out in cathcart which was real chance to show any potential.

c'mon annabel and her mob i say. some common sense. also jack is miles better op than smarmy alex whose charm would vanish when was made accountable day in day out and his ideas and lazy boy personality ran thin.
at least jack gets things done - sectarianism, smoking, new schools oh and as a staunch tory it pains to say this but how you clowns can snigger at the strongest economy the country has ever seen is beyond me. we'd be in the euro quagmire by now if you'd got in under no clue swinney.

Both Blair and Brown prove the old adage and in so doing make the case for independence, that the only way to succeed and prosper is to leave Scotland for London. Once there you have to renounce your Scottish roots and tell folk you are a hundred percent English.

#354

Lets all join in....

"Huuuuuuuullllo Huuuuuuuullllo ".........................

turgid little vermin.

it IS time, and it has BEEN time for many years.

Ps, I think you meant Bannockburn above, slight difference (just a small one mind)

Archie, Gourock - it's been a while since I resported to being a cheeky fecker but here goes anyway.
I personally can't wait to see the back of you and your likes. There are plenty of Scots who will be able to fill the tiny vacuum you momentarily create. Just who the feck do you think you are?
If you would move from Scotland to save a few pennies when you are already in the rich 10% then that says a lot about you and how much you value our country. You will be no loss at all.

I see "Archie from Gourock" is back with his "yer all aff yer heids except" me outlook.

How convenient.

It's that attitude that makes Scots appear to outsiders to be terminal moaners, without any constructive outlook, or ambition.

touchy touchy Anti-Fascist

You might have no truck with Scottish nationalism but your doing your bit for the British nationalists.

The fact that you dont even realise is self-explanatory.

You have to laugh at alll those idiot unionist clowns
that for some reason are now stating that the Scotsman is pro SNP, well thats a new one. Obviosly there devoud of proper arguement (something like the idiot on posting #354) to put the case forward for not being independent

#353 Mark1

Actually I live in Edinburgh and I dont support Rangers.
Are you really a bigot and a fascist? Sorry misplet that last time and forgot the question mark.

I love my country - and by that I mean Scotland - I have never denied our nationhood or capability for being independant.

I am proud that our two nations can live as one in peace as an example to the world. Like Belgium but without the beer and chocolate.

Just been listening to BBC Radio Scotland.

The main headline is Sir George Mathewson and Tony Blair's rant against him. Great stuff.

Every listeners comment has been pro Mathewson and condemnatory of Blair. So much so that the presenters had to point out that they had received no texts or emails supporting Blair!

Doh

You really are a person of double standards.

Earlier you criticised others for using colorful language.

And now. Your happy to use terms like fascist and bigot.

tsk tsk.

Typical Lib-Dem!

Rain Again 91. Why the Union is better...

1 The Unions origins date back 400 years to the joining of the Crowns and Flags. It is one of the oldest political entities on earth.Reason alone not to embark lightly on its destruction.
2 The Union allows u to be Scottish and British-to be part of a strong respected nation that counts in the world. The SNP offer you one smallidentity.
3 Despite the ravages of the Labour Govt. we still have a Navy that was able to rescue our citizens from the Lebanon for eg.. If you were an Irishman or Icelander you would have had to beg help from another country. If youwere a Brit in trouble in Ethiopia/Eritrea you would have a powerful diplomatic service to come to your aid. If you were a Finn or Lithuanian or Scot from Salmonds Wee Republic you wouldnt even have an Embassy to turn to.

4 The fracturing of the UK would result in the need to duplicate literally hundreds of institutions-Broadcasting,Armed Forces,Scientific organisations,Business organisations etc etc etc.
5 The divorce itself would be messy,divisive,bitter and totally unnecessary not to mention costly and disruptive.
6 The island of Great Britains fifty odd million people share History,Geography,Culture, Languages, Institutions,Blood, Infrastructure.What would Independence give Scots that they dont have already and why is it deemed necessary to unscramble these eggs?
7 Alex Salmond-shiny new boy on the block-I can picture him in front of the cheering crowds and have a vivid similar image in my mind-the orange revolution,Ukraine cheering crowds. Then a year later same old same old. What do the SNP really offer the people of Scotland that they can not have with the Union?
8 Britain still has a dozen overseas territories. In places like Gibraltar and the Falklands and St. Helena the people regard themselves as BRITISH not Scots Welsh Irish or English. How do you deal with them? Also Salmand would not in the true Socialist, anti colon

It is good to note the support shown by Sir George , he leaves nothing for lesser mortals to complain about .His achievements speak volumes ,as for Blair his star turns are to align himself with gunslingers that bring us to the brink of war and encourage terrorism ,to the point where decent British people are constantly under surveillance, and afraid to go outside their doors . I have stated many times in this column , that it is high time "the claith wiz o'er the parrot " and SCOTLANDS VOICE WAS HEARD AGAIN

I must admit that #26 has a point!

Geoff, I sincerely hope you are first generation Scots

I think that a democratic solutin would be to parttion Scotland into Unionst and Independent zones depending on the leanings of the respective electorates.

Geoff - South Africa - you spout the old spurious argument together we are strong ... but on whose terms?

Let's look at the supposed dissolution of the broadcasting companies in the event of independence.

When was the last time the Scots saw an historicalk drama on their screen? The BBC, run from london, will happily spend ten million on dramatising an obscure Trollope novel not not half of that on a Scottish historical novel, no matter how well it has sold in contemporary times.

And as for times of war - are you suggesting Scotland won't choose who it will support but simply lie down to be bombed?

351 - Archie

"Stephen Hendry has already been quoted as saying he'll move to England if Scotland increases it tax.
Archie from Gourock also. Anyway, to my point, I'd say at least 50% of all owners who I have spoken to are considering moving abroad to avoid this."

Strange that, last week you said you HAD left Scotland:

"Archie, Gourock / 4:01pm 10 Mar 2007 #86 Sophia

I would gladly stand if I hadn't left Scotland, in disgust."

Archie, Gourock / 5:08pm 11 Mar 2007 #45, Bill... Sorry for the delay in replying, just back in from playing ruggers.

Neither is a lie. I have left Scotland AND I still pay tax here ergo I still have a vote."

You also said you had given up your business, (can't be bothered going back through all your posts) yet now you seem to be saying the opposite?

Like to clear up the confusion?

Scotland will never be alone it will be part of the EU ,furthermore does Geoff BELIEVE THEN that South Africa should not be an autonomous State but should align itself with Zimbabwe?

374 Addendum

Or is "Qualified Democracy" similar to "Qualified Truth"?

McTaggert-Skye

I dont think you're getting the reaction you want lol

Bill - Archie has to stop using the Scotsman Internet columns as personal therapy. It's obvious he holds himself in low regard to the point of despising himself, but he really should look elsewhere for specialist counsel.

#373 Los Angeles

The people of Scotland pay £250 million in BBC Licence Fees but BBC Scotland (Radio and Television) receives only £90 million for Scottish domestic programming.

You are therefore correct. There is a lot of "hidden" subsidies that go from Scotland to London, which, in the case of broadcasting, would in itself be a boon to our economy.

mactaggart if your refering to me then your right

Sorry Mactaggart misread that your wrong

188. Sanny, Portugal
"Labour originally a 'Home Rule' for Scotland party.......I wonder how many of Blair’s New Labourites are aware of their history?"......
Originally the Tories were against the Union. It was their foes the Whigs who promoted the idea who wanted to bring Scotland in, to prolong the War of the Spanish Succession (1701-1714). Many Tories still had Jacobean sympathies and hoped for a restoration through Scotland. 'Conservatism in England' (Hearnshaw).
“Why not resurrect that opposition - return the party to its roots - campaign for an independent, self-reliant sovereign Scotland.

So, Sanny, if Tory MSP’s joined the SNP or just supported them, they would be simply returning home to their original principles ie against the Union.

Count Scotland's most valuable exports . They have always been its ideas and its people , there is enough talent and ingenuity left at home to uplift the country under independence to make it blossom and rise far and above it's English "masters"

375 Russel-no I do not believe that SA should align itself with Zimbabwe but then again I dont believe Kwazulu Natal should leave the(union of) South Africa and become a "wee" nation on the eastern seaboard of Africa!!

188. Sanny, Portugal
"Labour originally a 'Home Rule' for Scotland party.......I wonder how many of Blair’s New Labourites are aware of their history?"......
Originally the Tories were against the Union. It was their foes the Whigs who promoted the idea who wanted to bring Scotland in, to prolong the War of the Spanish Succession (1701-1714). Many Tories still had Jacobean sympathies and hoped for a restoration through Scotland. 'Conservatism in England' (Hearnshaw).
“Why not resurrect that opposition - return the party to its roots - campaign for an independent, self-reliant sovereign Scotland.

So, Sanny, if Tory MSP’s joined the SNP or just supported them, they would be simply returning home to their original principles ie against the Union.

# 182. livilion
‘Capstick comes home’- brilliant - but tell that to the kids to day and they won’t believe you.

118. Los Angeles - what’s a "Wassak".
Wazzak + "Similar meaning to pillock. Someone who has proved themselves to be a bit of an idiot. Is usually irritating. The term is often used as an insult against someone who has caused the insulter harm in some way.
Somewhat outdated the term is rarely used today.
Urban Dictionary comes in handy for slang words. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=

Robbie, much obliged for the information on "Wassak."

In sound it's a little like cassock, or Garthamlock, hard and dull.

The trouble with such words is they are meaningless to most thus impairing their affect. Mind you, the Scots are adept at making the most innocent words sound like swearing.

#Robbie

A couple of fairly notable Tories (both writers and journalists) have recently said that they now support an Independent Scotland.

There has always been a small minority of their vote (about 10%) that do support Independence.

However, other Tories (including the aforementioned two) now no longer see the sense in having both a Scottish and British parliament. They consider it to be a costly and uneccessary tier of Government.

I suspect a section of Scottish Tories will begin to support Independence, bearing in mind that most of their ordinary voters, arent the unyielding British nationalist/unionist types that you see on these message boards.

Anyway. I'm off for A while...

If it wasn’t bad enough we had to pay through the nose for the privilege to ‘host’ the ‘London Olympics’, and now have the privilege to do this now ‘three’ times over, we now find our young Scottish swimmers having their chances put in jeopardy too, in said Olympics. Why on earth is it not possible to build at least one small temporary flow pool in the short term, to keep the swimmers up to speed with their training? If we had been in smelling distance of London, I’d bet a replacement facility would have been built already, so not to inconvenience the English members of the British Olympic team. Those negligently responsible for this gross incompetence will surely pay, if there is any justice, with their council seats. Council planning in such matters, with the Olympic and commonwealth games coming so close together should have taken all of these events into consideration, and acted appropriately.

ITS TIME MR BLAIR WAKE UP TO REALITY!

its time mr blair to say sorry so the royal bank of scotland isnt a real buisness???

well im sure SIR George Mathewson would have been offered a seat in house of lords if he gave blair a donation?? oops cash for seats in lords,
its time for balir to shut up and go away, its time for jack the national joke to listen to the country- NO TRIDENT,
Its time scotalnd shands up for our rights, its time blair relised that Ireland, Norway, new zealand, austria, australia, canada, belgium, norway, finland, sweeden and the hundreds of other countrys have self determination its time for scotland to take a seat at the un.
Im with the snp now go scotland.

Let us now hope that Sir George Matheson will draw out more financial and advanced minds to join him. As an Independant Scotland handling its finances,especially for the first ten years,will be crucial. The new government will need to be able to draw in the best brains and expertise that is possible. At present the Scottish parliment is a deterrent to all but the inept. It is probably the only thing I am ashamed of in Scotland. With Sir George's comments and coming on side Scots should go ahead and ask him to head the SNP with the veiw that he becomes the first Prime minister of Scotland or maybe President ??
Then watch what would come out of the woodwork- an amazing array of talent

285 - so Dull!

383

Indeed Labour fielded a candidate (Keir Hardie) in Dundee in 1936 and his card read HOME RULE (which was indeed one of the aims of the party) Its interesting to note that George Cunningham Graham who was a founder with Keir Hardie of the Labour Party later founded a party which evolved into the SNP!
Both the Liberals and Conservative Parties have contested Scottish seats on a platform of home rule,and both of them have proved to be opportunist.
The truth is most Labour party members know very little about anything!

We're on our way
from mysery to happiness today
Aha Aha

Canuck - no need to be ashamed of our parliament. Everything has to have a beginning, and in any event, it was sure to be a repository for Labour "deputies" ... until we take our independence.

They are all a bunch of parasites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WhJUjhequ4

389
Appologies for the confusion I caused with WAZZAK or is it Wassak?
I often wondered what it meant!

I hope life in the city of angels is good to you.

#329, Mark: "A Majority (and a big one at that) of Scottish MP's voted NO to Trident renewal and I suspect that the only ones who voted yes (19 of them I think) are probably three quarters of the UK cabinet.

English hypocrisy yet again."

It's not "English hypocrisy yet again" because, as you say yourself, it's Scottish Labour MPs who "are probably three quarters of the UK cabinet" and the Labour party is kept in power by it's dominance in Scotland, and to a lesser extent Wales. Who's to blame for Trident then... English hypocrisy, or Scottish voters?

Come to think of it, who's to blame for Scotland NOT being independent already? English hypocrisy, or Scottish voters? You haven't actually mustered a majority in favour of independence yet (unlike the English, who show solid majorities in favour of both English independence from the whole UK, AND Scottish independence irrespective of the situation in the rest of the UK).

Anyway I've succumbed to the heat of debate when really I wanted (see earlier post) to say how much I think Scotland deserves independence and thrive off it! But really, 'English hypocrisy yet again' is looking for a rise and you got one.

Hi Morris - You bet it is.

Did you know that the main newpaper, The Los Angeles Times [which sells in millions] had a large colour pic [colour!!!] on its front page of Scots folk waving the Saltire flag on the day we got our parliament back?

As I said before, our Americans cousins believe in our ability to run our own country.

367. Geoff, South Africa You must have time on your hands writing all that today.
You say “Why the Union is better...” Here’s why it’s not:
1) 400 years of Union - matters little the age. It never practiced what it set out to do, become a new united country of equals. Scotland became insignificant in English eyes (this is not anti-English).
We have been here before. The majority of the people and nations of the World know little of Scotland. The UK and Britain are Synonymous with England. Geoff that’s a fact.
2) We must disagree on the Union offering Scotland respect (see 1). Virtually all old political unions have disbanded as the individual nations sought and gained independence which is the ‘norm’. Not being sovereign, which neither Scotland or England are officially but which England behaves as if it were, is abnormal.
Scotland = small identity. Again been there before. Most of the nations with a high quality of living have smaller economies then the UK which come 29th (Scotland would be further back). I have listed them before there rankings are: ; Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Luxembourg, Sweden, Australia, Iceland, Italy, Denmark, Spain Singapore, Finland, United States, Canada, New Zealand, Netherlands……[The Economist]….
To most of their citizens this is what is important the quality of their life not how powerful they are and who the can terrify.
3)