Would the last person to leave...........

how many peerages does it take to change a lightbulb ?

3 - Peter

That could vary depending on how many are 'charged'. ;)

These bulbs are only efficient in places were they are switched on for long periods. Places in the home where lights are switched on and off again shortly after don't give these lamps long enough to warm up and become bright and efficient.

We need out of the EU :)

What about the real producers of these gasses (USA, China, India etc) cutting their emissions ? Then we would see a realistic difference to the worlds greenhouse gas levells.

And what, pray tell, is the estimated reduction in temperature that will result from this folly? My guess is that even on the woefully inaccurate climate models I'd figure some thing measured in the thoudsandths of a degree. At what cost to the population?

Trust The Scotsman to quote that alarmist McLaren rather than any real climatologist!

I am not yet convinced that this is joined up thinking

These bulbs have about 10 times the glass and metal in them that traditinal incandescent bulbs do. So what about the energy to make them. Then ther is the trnsport, they are much heavier so that is more fuel. They are also much bigger and will not fit in many fittings so we are all going to have to change many lamp holders, desk lamps and and and....

As the salty says, they take a long time to reach their intensity so that will waste millions of hours each day as people wait for the light to be bright enough and to read by they need to be ginormous. Given this, people are likely to leave them on ths negating the notion.

What about the standard fluorescent tubes?

We could save much more by more logical street lighting policies and by turning of offive lights

Dimmer switches would also have to be replaced. These bulbs aren't compatable with them.

Massive disposal problems in a few years, tiny amounts of mercury multiplied by millions of bulbs. All the extra electronic ballast and plastic. Another useless gesture to solve a non crisis.

Most people I know changed to low energy bulbs years ago on cost grounds. Of course there's no such thing as a free lunch as Harbinger (#12) correctly flags up.

Judging by the nightime illuminations in Edinburgh's public and private sector ioffice blocks a great opportunity for 'light wardens' and 'fines' will soon be implemented by an EU directive.

So what happens to all the dimmer switches in the country? They don't work with energy-saving bulbs.

Anyway. there's nothing wrong with incandescent bulbs, as every 50 watts of non-light heat they produce is 50 watts LESS for your home heating to output before the thermostat cuts it off - so it all evens out anyway. And in the summer when you don't need heat, the days are long - so we don't turn the lights on anyway.

If the bulbs were made with thicker tungsten wire they would last a lot longer, there is a early 1900's bulb still working in a fire station in the US, it even has it's own webcam. But thinner tungsten means shorter life, so good news for the bulb manufacturers.
Incandescant with thicker tungsten would outlast & be more eco friendly than fluro's. In terms of electricity usage i don't think theres much between them.

more garbage from the greenwash and big businesses who are driving the climate change agenda,hyped news articles,does no one look at the previous cycles of weather,carbon burning absolute garbage theory

It is all mad.
There would no doubt be the emergence of an underworld supplying the good old bulbs at a price. Could be a new market for drug dealers to explore. Much less hassle than doing business with junkies etc.

Whose bright idea is this? Some dimwit no doubt. Choice should be left to the populous.

"19. Nitwyt, in the dark
Whose bright idea is this? Some dimwit no doubt. Choice should be left to the populous."

HA HA Ha. You trust the same "poulous" that have put Blair into power three times running?

(Or is it four? Time flies when your having fun).

I'm going to switch back to ordinary tungsten bulbs and start a collection. If they are banned from sale then everybody will want them.

How many MSPs does it take to change a light bulb.

MSPs can't change anything.

#6 Hi Scott. The EC should be scrapped as, apart from some of their more "brilliant" ideas such as straight bananas, getting rid of them would cut out massive amounts of CO2 production, eliminate the wastage of vast amounts of energy, and cut global warming by 50% due to the elimination of their hot air.

We should all go back to using candles and we should stop using electricity and coal/gas. We should all have nice open wood-burning hearths in our homes.

Stop Global Warming - Burn Trees!

Channel 4's documentatry 'The great global warming swindle' the other night convinced me that the debate is very far from over. The 'inconvenient truth' is that carbon dioxide is less than 0.42% of Earth's atmosphere - and man-made CO2 represents less than one percent of that - so 0.042%. The gas is present in our atmosphere at about 400 parts per million. Tha's a tiny trace element!

Secondly the programme gave very strong evidence that there is no correlation between CO2 and temperature rise. In the four decades from 1940 - 1980 - what was called the post-war boom - industrial production went exponential and CO2 levels rose dramatically. But temperatures fell for 40 years.

The only TRUTH we know is that at Ice Ages with massive ice sheets covered half the planet on at least a dozen occasions. Edinburgh's Arthur's Seat was buried beneath a 1500ft thick ice sheet just 10,000 years ago - but that was eventually melted by huge amounts of heat from the sun. This was long before humans existed in anything but tiny numbers and industry was unthought of. So twenty odd Ice Ages covered the planet with millions of cubic miles of solid ice - and then each time it all melted. And there is no evidence that CO2 was involved at all. There is strong evidence that fluctuations in the sun's output and the effect of cosmic rays on cloud formation are the 'engines' which produce the warm and cold cycles. Course, there's no money for programmes and research grants if you have to admit it's all beyond our control. Politicians would have no mandate to tax us even more if they had to admit that climate change is compeltely natural, has always been going on and is nothing whatever to do with man made CO2 outputs. If you can find the C4 programme I urge you to watch it.

This is another mad EU idea. Yes, sure, on the face of it appears to save energy at the point of use but unless you look at the whole life cycle, adding in the cost of manufacture, embodied energy, transport and disposal, then it's a pointless exercise. Fact: these bulbs cost a lot more in life cycle terms than traditional incadescent - in exactly the same way that a small diesel car is far more 'green' than a Toyota Prius. Anyways, I have a couple of these bulbs and the light from them is harsh. They emit a different range of the spectrum to incadescents. This is just gesture politics at its worst. They must think everybody is an idiot.

Did anyone else watch the great global warming swindle on thursday night.

One of the things it exposed was the misinformation of Gore's "An inconvenient truth" or should that be called A convenient lie.

Gore's misinformation shows that there is a link in the pattern of global tempratures and CO2 emmisions, what he didn't mention, but the doc on thursday night did was that there is a lag in the graph, the earth heats up first and later causes an increase in co2 in the atmosphere,(earths temp rises,CO2 then rises, temp drops CO2 drops) so it is not a case of co2 causing global warming but an increase in temprature that causes an increase of co2. The facts have been skewn so out of context to fit the agenda.

This entire climate change debacle is a nonsense, there is nothing wrong with the planet, nothing at all!!

Its all about new technology and the need to sell it for mass amounts of money..The planet is healthy and there is no need for panic, hence the reason I insist that my staff members drive 4x4 gas guzzlers on the company petrol card.

Tweedmouth,
You are completely correct in your statement
"Course, there's no money for programmes and research grants if you have to admit it's all beyond our control. Politicians would have no mandate to tax us even more if they had to admit that climate change is compeltely natural,"

And to all the government scientists who go against their better knowledge in order to recieve government funding, using foney science to promote political agendas, there is a song by the dead kennedy's called well paid scientist, the lyrics are verry fitting to this situation.

http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/PrintLyrics?OpenFo...

#15 DDMC: With energy saver you use about 1/12th the energy, that's why they are called energy savers. Using thicker tungsten would result in higher energy usage, as you would require more energy to heat it up to produce the same light, and it would take a lot longer to "warm up" than an energy saver bulb.

Not bright enough? replace 100w ordinary bulb with 2 75W equivalents, still uses about 1/10th the power.

#14 Most of the heat from bulbs is lost into the ceiling and walls unless you have a very well insulated house. Use table lamps instead and the heat goes into the surrounding air.

Can someone tell me. Do Dimmer Switches just divert the power used rather than reduce it?

I welcome this move. We switched to low-energy bulbs 7 years ago and our bills are much lower.

Energy conservation isn't just about climate change: it's about energy security.

Energy use has grown massively over the past 30 years: all those domestic appliances, cars, air conditioning, computers - we now regard as commonplace a variety of energy hogging devices that the majority of people did not own in 1977.

We have reached Peak Oil. Most of Europe is now dependent on Russia for gas, and anything that lessens that dependency has got to be positive.

#10 and 12 One Energy Saver bulb is equal to 10 ordinary bulbs, so you arguments about less glass and metal, and the energy needed to produce them are wrong.

Me I've converted over and it had nothing to do with global warming or saving the environment. I wanted to save my money. They last longer and don't cost a much to run. I have weak eyesight and cannot read unless there is bright light, and I have never found any problem with the new bulbs.

"ORDINARY light bulbs are to be banned across the European Union within two years in the fight against climate change. "
So we are to be banned from buying or using ordinary light bulbs within two years.
And how does the EU propse enforcing this new ruling? Of course I forgot, Britain will enforce the ruling but Italy,Germany and France will ignore it as per usual! This will of course be followed up by the British "Light" police force who will have the powers to enter every home to ensure that only compliant light bulbs are being used. Those who are not complying will face a massive fine and jail time. Don't worry about the space we'll release a murderer or two to accomodate you. Oh, if that is not enough a certain ex Chancellor will ensure his new chancellor will bring a new Light Tax. Buty hey its all for our own good!

Banning the incandescent bulb is a huge saving of energy and carbon emissions. The EU must be congratulated on this historic move. However, the installation of efficient insulation in homes would be an even greater energy saver. It would pay governments to substantially grant-aid attic insulation and double glazing. In Ireland there are no grants for insulation.
http://wood-pellet-ireland.blogspot.com/

2350 politicians can't change a light bulb all on their own. We need training courses set up for light bulb inspectors who will be authorised to break-in to homes of offenders. Supply them with Prius's to go around in the evening to check up on all these stupid citizens who have failed to get "on message".Some of you guys aren't taking this seriously! :)

"23. Roo-barb, Woopwoop
The EC should be scrapped "

Please feel free to go.
WE never wanted you in the first place.

As is shown here, from all the whingeing and moaning, the U.K has only been out to cause trouble from day one.

A foot stamping screaming till they're sick child unless they get their own way.

GO! And as soon as possible.

We will throw the biggest leaving party of all time to celebrate your pathetic little lands demise.

THE U.K, HOWEVER, WILL NOT BE INVITED.

#26. Well said. I did indeed watch the fine C4 program.

Planet Earth has got on just fine for 4.5 billion years without humankind's help and the arrogance of the green brigade is quite breathtaking.

Last week I went up to Torphin to watch the lunar eclipse. The Galaxy Song came to mind:

(with acknowledgement to The Pythons)

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.

This is all about choice and control. Apparently it was Bliar who pushed this through, no doubt so that in a cople of years time when it comes to enforcement, he can say it isn't us, it's the EU.
Speaking of choice, I presume Bliar and his cohorts chose either not to watch, or to ignore the content of the Great Global Warming Swindle.
Speaking of which, don't you think the national press have been strangely silent on the issue!

Perhaps the best thing for Scotland would be
1) Vote SNP in May
2) Vote for Independence (Double, from Britain AND E.U)
THe best wee country in the world has been treaded on under foot for so long by Britain AND Europe with all their stupid and inept laws that if we became totally independent then the Scottish parliament could then put all their energies into one thing, Governing Scotland without worrying about stupid E.U. rules and regulations. ( and boy do they bring out some real stupid rules). Lets reclaim Scotland for the Scots, after all anytime E.U. rules are introduced by Brussels Britain is the only country that implements them. It is noticeable that certain countries (You all know who you are!) regularily blatantly ignore these rules.

for #31, dimmers are variable resistors, they work with standard blubs because they reduce the voltage thus decreasing the current, ie , dimmer light production with a wire. they use the same amount of power, whether full on or 10% on. They don't work with tubes because it is a different system that requires a large voltage spike to ignite the gas, then a stable voltage to continue the reaction with the gas producing the light. Drop the voltage below miniums and the tube shuts down. For #40 a hydrogen light, only the sun dose that well, the necessiary equipment would be about the size of a medium sized apartment bldg. Tubes will never duplicate sunlight, but some gases are easier on the human sight system than others. Cheap ones are terrible causing strain and in some cases permanent eye damage.

Of course once they're "banned" anyone found to be still using, or even storing, filament bulbs will be liable to a fine and/or imprisonment.

42/43 - Most modern dimmers use thyristors not resistors. These work by cutting off part of the ac cycle before it reaches its maximum output, effectively acting as a very high speed switch switching on and off 100 times a minute. So it should save power, although a small amount of power is needed for the electronic control.

Could you imaging modern theatrical lighting boxes full of resistive dimmer circuits? And there also lies a rub, are all these lamps to be banned as well, along with car head/side/tail/brake lamps. Granted many could be changed to LED (Light Emitting diodes) as many cyclists use, but these are not yet suitable for headlights required for long range lighting.

Comment@25 Reading Public, hi mate.....yup it's pretty handy, lets you focus on what you want to say as apposed to the doubt of spelling it right :)

Guess the French will turn off all the lights in Paris as the occupying Germans did for them in the '40s. Surely the tourists will still come to the "City of Light".
And the ever-increasing number of politicians, fat cats, and bureaucrats will of course turn off all their lights as well.
(It is worth comparing the Nazis of old and the EU masters of today- ask what sacrifices the French are prepared to make?)
The EU is an asylum, and only the warders profit.
Yet, many responses posted here indicate that compliance will be a problem. These folk sound like Scottish-Americans. Welcome!...still lots of room here...still free.

Thanks 42, 43 and 45.

Is there any bright sparks oot there that can help with my conviction and appeal.
Never mind changing bulbs, read my comments on link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WhJUjhequ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_GPX41Yt9U

Jahwohl, Zeig Heil and other expressions of subservience. Of course we will do as the Germans tell us and be delighted to do so.
Definitely time we got out of this dictatorship called the EU.
As other posters have remarked, "energy saving" bulbs will cause extensive changes to existing bulb holders and light control systems. They will also cause problems of manufacture and transportation.
Instead of complying with such hare-brained schemes why don't we just switch off every other light on motorways and expressways. Think of the energy that would save.

#49: Just logged on to your youtube links. What atrocious camera work and unintelligible commentary. Is this the best youtube can do?

Dear von-Scharnhorst, #37

I assume that you are German or expressing a view on behalf of German people - if I am wrong then forgive my error.

Your comments are entirely misplaced - I quote:

'We will throw the biggest leaving party of all time to celebrate your pathetic little lands demise.

THE U.K, HOWEVER, WILL NOT BE INVITED'

Your choice of words is offensive and demonstrates a lack of European spirit.

It seems to me that there was a time about 70 years ago when Germany had a similar attitude to the UK., in the end after a great deal of strife, waste and horrific bloodshed, not to mention pollution, the UK and her allies proved their point. Indeed, unlike Germany which received aid to help her rebuild, the UK has only just finished paying for the costs incurred in defeating German aggression.

The point surely is that any change such as the light bulb decision needs to be carefully thought through and implemented so as to achieve its aims without resulting in other unintended consequences. So for example the price of the incandescent bulbs could be increased by a certain percentage each year over a period of years to encourage the purchase of more efficient bulbs and the revenue raised could be used to subsidise the price of the energy efficient bulbs - that way the change would be effected by market forces and not by EU edict and there would be time for people to adapt their fittings.

Regards,

The question is, when are we going to rebel against this total madness!

This decision shows again just how little the people making these decisions know about anything!

as many before have said regarding this.

Energy saving bulbs only SAVE, when they are on for long periods.

Putting them in places where lights are being switched on and off if just total nonesense. They then use more power and don't save anything!

Too many politicians, with nothing to do but make up stupid regulations!

In the UK we won't only enforce it, we will employ more environmental wardens, who will be given authority to enter our homes and issue, fixed penalties for using non compliant bulbs!

This is environMENTALism!

Somebody somewhere must be making big bucks out of all the things they are forcing us to change and all the "green" levies!!

Get out clause (i'm semi pished so the next comments are probably what I really think).

Global warming, pretty sure this is actually happening due to the fact that I remember playing silly buggers in deep snow (Burntisland). By this I mean chucking friends kid brother off a 40 ft cliff into a snowdrift then having to walk 2 miles to get a rope to extract said brat from the 10 ft deep hole he'd punched through said drift. I have not seen the same conditions freezing weatherwise since 1978 less snowfall year on year since, so yes things are warming up.

What is causing this? At the moment I am between 2 camps, I understand the arguements that humans are responsible due to burning fossil fuels and adding c02 to the atmosphere which traps more of the suns energy in the atmosphere, which adds energy to our ecosystem, which results in stronger storms, more heat helping to melt planetary ice and so raise sea levels.

Thing is, we are on a bloody big planet, which is very tectonically active ie volcanoes belching who knows what into the atmosphere in megaton amounts.

We are orbiting a g5 star (yellow dwarf) whose output varies on various cycles the shortest of which is the 11 year sunspot cycle which directly affects our climate.

I feel we should take one long step back then really take a long careful look at our enviroment, take into account natural changes, energy input from interplanetary sources ( the sun) Look at natural volcanic gases. Planetary albedo ie ice sheets reflecting solar energy back into space ( if these are reducing how hard will it be to build huge mylar mirrors to compensate?) And perhaps trap and use the energy reflected from these mirrors.

Ok rant over me pished, night all.

Alec # 51

Police would not let anyone film so it was filmed by Phone hence the quality

Alec#51

If you please take time and read all comments on both videos you will be able to see what most of the posters are saying.
My issues are written as comments on both videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_GPX41Yt9U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WhJUjhequ4

The utilities in the states have been giving these bulbs away for the last 20 years so that they wouldn't have to build more capacity. They work fine, last forever, and save a good part of our bill. I've got a regular 3 way and 2 bulbs on a dimmer, all the rest are CF. They sure work for me!

The utilities in the states have been giving these bulbs away for the last 20 years so that they wouldn't have to build more capacity. They work fine, last forever, and save a good part of our bill. I've got a regular 3 way and 2 bulbs on a dimmer, all the rest are CF. They sure work for me!

Regarding the Channel 4 mocumentary, every point in it was a distortion, long-since corrected science (falsely presented as recent), and outright lies. The major points are debunked here, by actual scientists:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swi...

But hey, you'll believe what you want to, I'm sure.

Regarding the compact flourescents using more energy if turned on for short periods, that's based on a myth. The start up power surge is only milliseconds long:

http://www.seattle.gov/light/Conserve/Resident/cv5_lw2.htm

The 20 million ton possible savings listed above would be about a 4% reduction. That's signficant, and worth it.

It seems the insanity is spreading. Australia is also talking about banning incandescent lamps, and it is one of the most ill conceived ideas that has been presented so far.

I have an article that covers this topic in considerable detail - see

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm

Don't get me wrong - there are lots of places where CFLs are ideal, and I use them wherever possible. It was claimed above that a CFL uses 1/10 the energy of an incandescent. Wrong - 1/4 to 1/3 is the right answer, but there are many places where CFLs simply cannot be used.

They need good ventilation, because the electronics will fail if they get too hot (there's a photo in the above article), and over 50% of all existing light fittings cannot be used because they are not adequately ventilated.

#43 said a dimmer is a "big resister like a low power transformer" (sic), but it is nothing of the sort. Dimmers use a TRIAC (thyristor) with a phase controlled firing angle, and dissipate almost no power (generally less than 1W, but it depends on the load). They operate 100 times a second (120/second for 60Hz mains), and control the real power applied to the lamp.

The EU, Australia, California and anyone else who thinks banning incandescent lamps is a good idea needs to obtain ALL the information, and consider all the effects. This is a complex topic, and I suggest that those who really want to know read the article.

Cheers, Rod

This is a 'quality of life' measure.

Flourescents are a brutal and ugly light source, almost the diametric opposite of the lovely glow of incandescent.

Incandescents on a dimmer can and do spare lamp life while maintaining an in-room atmosphere of non-clinical ambiance.

As some still use valves or vacuum-tubes to hear a more musical sound, there are those who will never switch to the "laboratory" look of floro lamps.

Incandescents and their very human --painterly, even-- glow... need not fall victim to conservation efforts. A combination of 'neutral' Led wash and background illumination along with key incandescent sources will go a long way to dropping energy use.

Making all of us feel and look more ugly, and increasingly stressed, under the monstrous glare of flourescent, compact or otherwise, is NOT the answer.

Consider.

B&N

I can see the black market in old style bulbs! In the U.S. congress put into law the low flow toilet. The idea was good but the technology was a little shaky. Some Americans now search junk yards and even go into Canada to buy regular 5 gal. toilets (lieus I think you call them).
I can visualize organized crime buying high wattage incandescent bulbs and selling them just like booze was sold in the U.S. during prohibition. Who knows what more crimes this will cause!

Because of available time - I have only scanned briefly thru the comments but,did not notice one of them mention the disposal of theses so called marvelous bulbs/GLOBES.THESE GLOBES HAVE TO BE DISPOSED IF IN A WAY THAT THEY WILL NOT CONTAMINATE OUR WATERWAYS AND HARMOUR ENVIROMENT - THEY CONTAIN MERCURY AND YOU SHOULD BEAWARE OF THE TOXICITY OF THIS MATERIAL.They will create more problems in the future which, will be more costly to reverse than what they are supposedly saving the community.
As for those who believe in global warming and that they can do something about,must be members of the flat earth society,so how about going to the edge and dr.. off.

It doesn't matter a damn what the truth is, about climate change, or about the merits of different light sources, because as the article says:

"ORDINARY light bulbs are to be banned across the European Union within two years in the fight against climate change. The 490 million citizens of the 27 member states will be expected to switch to energy-efficient bulbs after a summit of EU leaders yesterday told the European Commission to "rapidly submit proposals" to that effect."

Anybody who doesn't fall into line with that will be liable to a) fines and then b) imprisonment. Houses will be inspected, secret stocks of illegal bulbs will be seized, punishments will be handed out, and no excuses will be accepted, and don't let anybody pretend "Oh no that wouldn't happen" because it would. Remember that we're now engaged in a desperate fight to save the planet! The eco-fascists are taking control, through the EU.

"52. English and Proud,
Your choice of words is offensive and demonstrates a lack of European spirit."
It is not ME, or the German population, that squeals like a stuck pig every time the E.U is mentioned.
NOW tell me who has the "anti European spirit".

Where are all the old lightbulbs going to landfill then?

"66. Reading Public,
The gas is not ignited but excited much the same as a good woman I believe."
WHAT? With 240 volts? Your other name Frankenstein, by any chance?

Any bright sparks with ideas on my case please contact through you-tube.
Never mind how long it takes to change bulbs while there are real issues of concern.
Check out below to see how corrupt our system really is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WhJUjhequ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_GPX41Yt9U