Is the Scotsman sure about reporting this story in this way?

May this brave pair rest in peace. They have ended their life in a wonderfull, beautifull way: together and as peacefully as possible. Soon we will have some deranged "right-to-life" campaingers peddling their hatred and oppression of others freedoms on this page. Its is undeniably every persons basic human right, to choose to die, how, where and when they please and denying someone this is a breach of their human rights. I sincerly hope the law has changed before I get ill.

Sad, Just think of all the goodness, and kindness he cannot show too the world of him and his wife now he is gone. He , Her and Us have all lost.

Humbling, and love actually.

#2 Agree totally. It's time the law was changed. If we forced animals to suffer the way we force people to suffer, we'd be locked up for cruelty.

Yo Mr Horse
I danced drunken and sweaty to your tunes and heard of you through many of those I know.
I once sat in an Edinburgh kitchen and chatted with you. Im so sad to hear you are gone. True love does exist.
C

Love is stronger than death. Rest in Peace Richard & Mandy. God bless.

This tragic and yet touching story gives new meaning to the words 'in sickness and in health, until death do us part' - their love for one another could not accept the final parting - may they rest together in peace. Mau God bless them and their famillies

Why call this a "double tragedy"? These people clearly decided to do what they wanted, guided by their circumstances and their love. That seems a much better end that most have.

Newspapers seem to report every death as "tragic". Death is just the inevitable end of life - the only choice is whether we have a good death or a bad death. It is a bad death - lonely, in pain, lingering after years of illness - that is potentially tragic. Some deaths are just the full stop to a happy and full life, and no more tragic than life itself.

We are so frighted by death in our modern society - in which almost all dying takes place in hospitals long after the person has lost contact with their life and friends, with their dignity and (often) with their own minds. With medical advances ever expanding doctors ability to keep the very ill alive, one day we are going to have to face the issue that life should end with dignity rather than at the last possible moment granted by medical science.

This has all the ingredients of a "Romeo & Juliet" type tragedy. A tragedy that she was inflicted with this horrible condition that was untreatable so felt compelled to end it this way. He obviously could not think about life after she had gone. It is indeed a tragedy of monumental proportions.

Life after she had gone, if he assisted her death, and why not for heaven's sake, would have a double torment of her loss and the full force of the law.

The law must be more compassionate about this.

A truly courageous and loving couple . Their love lives forever, death cannot hold them. May they rest in Peace, and Rise in Glory

May their family and friends know the unconditional love and comfort of God, and be forever proud of their life and love.

God Bless them

#12...lovely speech...that's it in a nutshell

Harry and I had several intersting conversations when I worked in one of his watering holes, The Grand in Lerwick. Although we have not spoke for several years, He was always in my thoughts and will be forever more!
Dan

its sad to see such a loving couple have to go like this we can send rockets to the moon but we still cant find cures to keep loving people like this alive on this planet i hope they go to a better place with the animals they so loved

I can understand the pact, but why kill the pets, what have they done wrong? Other loving homes may have welcomed them.

Been in your position Richard. witnessing and caring for a loved one, month after month,year after year can take a terrible toll.

God bless them.

http://platosway.blogspot.com

Of course it's sad but if this report is true, it sounds like an extremely dignified end for these guys.

I can't agree more with those making the point that animals are given mercy, yet humans aren't. Obviously I can only speak from my own perspective but I fear an undignified death far more than I fear death itself.

I know far too many people that have been traumatised for life by having to watch relatives slowly deteriorate till they were unrecognisable.

It's funny, my own father died suddenly when I was ten and sometimes I think I was lucky.

Anyway, I hope these guys have gone to a better place....

Leaving aside the Pact.

I just want to tell you that Swamptrash were a Phenomenon.

Possibly the cultiest cult band to ever exist its nigh on impossible to get a hold of any of their recordings.

Quite simply they were the best Live Band I have ever seen. You would sweat about 3 stone off during a Swamptrash Gig and I remember one night in Calton Road where things got too hot inside the Venue and the gig spilled into the street, stopping traffic.

The music is very hard to describe bluegrass , pyschobilly . Johnny Cashs Ring of Fire at 25 MPH for 15 minutes.

Id just like to thank Richard/Harry for that from the bottom of my heart.

You and the rest of the boys that went on to become Shooglenifty were at the top of the tree then, Ive never seen or heard anything comparable and I probably never will.

Kick Ass wherever you are now.

Rock on number 9. Couldn't have put it better.

25 MPH should read 250 MPH !

My heart goes out to his family. Respect to Harry for his brave decision. Nobody knows what went through his mind. Harry entered my life through the fantastic Swamptrash, and through his cartoons and I thank him for the pleasure he has given me.
RIP Harry and Mandy.

Bodhi (what a nice name for a nasty person) you must be a very warped person. Harry and Mandy will either be reborn as Higher Beings or be in Heaven depending on your beliefs. How much pleasure have YOU given the world? Crawl back under your redneck stone

Here you go.. it wont appeal to everyone i know.. but give it a try

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.view...

Sad & so young - They should change the law so that any one in the same position does not get charged.

Bodhi , get a grip.

#16
No! You don't understand.

Lovely.

It still doesn't mean we should re-open the so-called 'mercy killing' or 'assisted suicide' debate. Helping someone to end their life, regardless of the circumstances is wrong.

May their spirits rest in peace.
RE: bodhi
Please when leaving comments let's remember that friends and relatives of the couple may read this stuff too, and maybe it's appropriate to use more moderate language.
The name Bodhi has many Buddhist connections, although there seems to be no correlation to Buddhist philosophy in Bodhi's comment. May Bodhi find interior wisdom of a nature that precludes the necessity to judge other beings.

How very sad for their families.

May their spirits find the peace they could not find in this life in the next.

27. "Murder"? You clearly have never been in a situation where a loved one was suffering a debilitating disease, or I'm sure your opinions would not be the same - or at least I certainly hope so, for your sake.
Try to stop restricting other people's freedoms with your own narrow-minded opinions - although I suppose if you're really narrow-minded, and not just unthinking, this will be a problem.
And pray that you don't ever suffer from Parkinson's Disease, Multiple Sclerosis, Dementia, or any of the other slow but irreversible wasting diseases. Or at least pray that the people who care for you hold different opinions from those you yourself want to impose on others. You're really no better than the Religious police in Iran!

27. Suicide is not against the law in Scotland, BTW.

Are this loving couple victims off the undignified and uncaring society our country has become in recent years?
Is it an indictment of the degeneration of care and help lacking for so many of our unfortunate citizens?
What a sad country we have really become/
And what a depressing future lies a head for the many
younger generations, unless we ?????????????

Sad and brave...

#37 What an thoughtless irrelevant rant, am sure there is a point in there somewhere... but I just cannot find it!

Life is a gift, it is not ours to give or take.

Very sad. I saw Swamptrash in the late eighties - fantastic. Sincere sympathies.

However, this is not the kind of example that highlights the dilemmas of euthanasia.

Unthinking sympathy/compassion can lead to conclusions that are, actually, misguided in terms of their wider significance.

What stymies euthanasia more widely is the fact that people will be inclined to euthanasia because of their concern for others. If it was institutionalised, old and sick people will see their sickness and suffering as an emotional and financial burden on their families and will feel that to volunteer for euthanasia will makes the lives of those around them easier.

The door opens to persuasion. . . .

Acting on behalf of a patient here is very problematic in terms of medical ethics.

Suffering is a terrible thing -and we have a duty to comfort those in need and to ease their suffering when we can.

But suffering is also a natual part of life and has values for the individual and for society in how people learn to practice compassion, patience and care.

Euthanasia is wrong in the bigger picture.

Totally agree with no. 21 - great live, brave forerunners of much Celtic fusion that we hear today. Harry - a man of many talents, true Renaissance figure. I'm sitting listening to 'Bone' & smiling at memories of those times. Richard & Mandy: glad you're still together.

Guga, nonsense, nonsense, nonsense

Intelligent people , and Richard was undoubtedley one of them - do not make these descisions lightly.

I just feel that it is wrong to make any kind of judgement of people who do this.

Ive just been looking at his farewell messages to his friends on Myspace.

Its heartbreaking.

What a position for Richard and Mandy to find themselves in. Knew and loved them both. I hope that whatever is next, enables them to be together. I have not seen Mandy for years, Richard more recently, when we talked about the horror of MS, I wish that conversation had been about a miracle cure. I keep alternating between sadness and happiness for them. What I am trying to say is you'll be missed and there will always be a place in my heart that belongs to you two.

42. Something worth replying to at least.

"Suffering is a terrible thing -and we have a duty to comfort those in need and to ease their suffering when we can.
But suffering is also a natual part of life and has values for the individual and for society in how people learn to practice compassion, patience and care.
Euthanasia is wrong in the bigger picture."

Don't agree. Suffering is NOT a natural part of life, and luckily most people in this part of the world don't have to experience very much in the way of suffering. What makes suffering a natural part of life? You may be thinking of the example of Jesus, but that is quite different - that was an example of chosen suffering to help others, whereas illness is obviously not something that sufferers have chosen.

You are saying that individuals HAVE TO suffer so that those around can learn from them.
I wonder if you would volunteer to form an object lesson for your family and friends. By your words that would be beneficial for them.

In general people that express this kind of opinion have not experienced life-threatening situations themselves.

You might as well say that's it's good to have a tsunami from time to time so that people can learn to be charitable. Or that medical research should no longer be funded so that we will not become starved of valuable object lessons!

My wife has MS, she has recently been confined to a wheelchair for any distance further than 20 feet. She is constantly racked with pain.

This leads to doubt, despair and depression. I have had to hold her head as she sobs her heart out due to the pain and feeling that she is worthless... she has on several recent occasions told me to leave, I'd be better off with out her, and the most frightening of all - she knows how those who have taken the step of committing suicide feel.

In the end I believe that it is a blessed release for the lady and that her husband who could not bear the future without her.

May they both find peace where ever it may be...

The Scotsman is right to report this story in this way.
In order to have a 'right to life' there needs to be a 'right to death'

N. Smith - I'm at work and won't be able to get into a discussion.

Suffering is always there to one degree or another for all human beings. That is a fact. It always has been - from nettle stings to psychological depair.

There are choices we can make about how we see suffering and how we can respond to it.

Euthanasia is an agonising dilemma as illustrated by this example and by 'living with it' and his wife to whom I send best wishes (for what its worth).

It is one of those moral conflicts where we don't have a formula - we are torn two ways - we can only make judgements in which different values are balanced against each other at some sacrifice to one or both.

There are sociological reasons for opposing the institutionalisation of euthanasia and there are also philosophical/ontological/religious reasons.

From a sociological point of view I oppose it.

From a philosophical perspective - medical ethics etc. the debate is complex - passive and active euthanasia etc. No time to get into it.

Suffering can have immense value when it is lived with grace, when it elicits compassion, when it brings out the virtues.

this does not mean that suffering is a good thing.

It is our response to this aspect of life, which is often inescapable, that has moral value or otherwise.

Peace

May they RIP together.
I never met Mandy but i knew Harry through all of the Swamptrash years and had a fantastic time at their gigs!!
Kashka and i used to listen to their practise sessions in our St Bernards Cres flat in Edinburgh! Our downstairs neighbours never complained!!
Harrys art work and music will live on 4ever. A very talented man!!
Look after 'Kashka the cat that walked alone' for me Harry. X

This is an extremely sad story, but it is also an inspiration to me that this couple had the bravery to make this decision, and touching that their love was so strong that one could not contemplate life without the other. They were extremely lucky to have found each other and to have really, truly loved. So many people never have that.

On another note, anyone who thinks that someone who assists a chronically ill loved-one to commit suicide should be open to prosecution has obviously not watched a much-loved family member waste away with a terminal illness. I lost my mother to cancer after a prolonged and distressing illness and it will haunt me forever. If I were to be diagnosed with the same cancer, I fear I would be making a trip to Switzerland while I still had the strength, as witnessing what my mother went through has put the fear of God into me.

My condolences to their family and friends. I suppose he couldn't stand the thought of living without her. A sad, yet inspiring, story.

#34 'wrong' is your opinion. Not all people hold the same views on life and death, on life worth living and life worth ending in dignity and respect.
I live in the state of Oregon in the U.S. where we have death with dignity laws, passed by the voters, and although that ridiculous attorney's general that Bush had for awhile tried to get our laws struck down, he failed in our courts repeatedly.
I should have the right to choose to die and I should be able to outline the circumstances whereby I would want someone else to do the deed for me if I were no longer able and I would not want them to also have to commit suicide in order to escape prosecution.
Just because some peoples ideas about dying and assistance to die are different than other people's, doesn't mean that those who want the choice should be denied it by the laws. If you don't want to do it don't, but let other people do so without prosecution if they believe it is the 'right' thing to do.

I knew Mandy and Richard. They were my neighbours and friends for several years. This is a very sad situation and I wish things had been different for them - but I am 100% sure Mandy would have hated being in the situation MS left her in. She was lively and active and loved being outdoors. Chopping logs for the fire was a pleasure for her and gardening was a favourite pass time. From what I understand these things hadn't been possible for a long time. Richard's devotion is something to be admired. I have some lovely memories of them both. I just hope they have found peace together.

Christians who oppose euthanasia should ask themselves this question. Would Jesus, the God of Love, condemn me (= them) if I were to help a terminally and debilitatingly ill loved one find comfort and peace through a death that they themselves yearn deeply for?

I see only one answer in the New Testament.

I only met harry and mandy once but i enjoyed their company immensely. They had animation, intellect and love. I am sorry to hear this news and i hope they are having a wonderful time without the pain and the suffering..

~55 Peter - get off your high horse - slagging off religious people for having an opinion. Not allowed?

There are good reasons (mainly abuse) which have very little to do with religious views.

N.Smith - be interested to see what your exegesis is of Jesus's views on euthanasia . . . .

So sad to read this.

Hello Scottish Woman

Words like 'fundamentalist' are bandied around wthout much meaning. People tend to use them when they disagree with a religious perspective and think that they've made a valid point.

In what way am I not letting anyone rest in peace?

This is a national newspaper which links this very sad and personal story with the debate on euthanasia. I've joined in the debate with my views.

Please don't go down the pointless name calling route again. No need. OK?

May you rest in Peace Harry,
You were, and always will be an inspiration to me.
You and Mandy were the definition of love.

#58 Would Christ condemn the action? Would the action be immoral? These are only two of the questions at issue.

Should it be a criminal offence to kill someone even with that person's consent? Under what circumstances, if any, should it be legally allowable to kill another person without that person's explicit consent?

These are among the other more important questions that we face. They are not easy questions to answer.

Following one's conscience is all one can do - in the end, if you are motivated by compassion, care and love, this is matters at a moral level.

However, to make euthanasia legal is another matter entirely - a very dangerous move for a lot of vulnerable people who will feel or be made to feel that their lives are best ended sooner rather than later.

Then dont try to answer them Dr Mclachlan. Each case on its merits and dont forget that these are people , not test cases.

Richard, you were the REAL DEAL in a world which settles for subtitutes and phoneys far too often.

Yee Ha.

I've nothing against euthanasia and all that but why did they have to kill there pets? a few other people have touched on it as well. That was a bit selfish of them.

.. and how would those who oppose it plan to arrest Richard or Mandy ?

GIve it a rest HCB.

How come you all start praising god after these people are gone. Where was you god while she was suffering a horribly painful debilitating disease?

Not with you balloon.

Not really fair to get personal - a bit out of order really. I'm talking about the policy, not individuals.

This is an important social issue and there are very good reasons for not making this a social policy.

That's all.

#68 We do not need to answer the ethical and theological questions. We can also, quite happily agree to differ over them. However, we cannot simply agree to differ over the question of what the law on the matter should be. There have be laws of some sort regarding the killing of other people.

It is not easy to frame a law that will allow only those people that we want to kill other people to kill them.

Scottish Woman

Weird of you to take it upon yourself to help people to understand the 'driving force of my debate'. Thanks very much - very much appreciated - since I'm such a sleekit person who tries to pull the wool over everyone's eyes . . . gee whizz woman, talk about stickin yer neb in . . . .

Why don't you actually read what is written and stop prejudging things, jumping to conclusions etc.

Also, don't take it upon yourself to censor . . .

I do not have a problem with Euthanasia-- for distressed terminally ill people,nor indeed with the circumstances of Richards suicide.
For some the death of a spouse is virtually the end of life -- "When the anchor fails" and I understand that,
but why the pets???

Dr MacLachlan - exactly.

cheers doll

As a friend of the family, I think the Scotsman has taken a grossly ill considered and extremely distasteful decision to open a public debate on this subject at this time, especially when all the facts regarding Mandy and Harry's deaths are not yet known

I'd like to remind people who leave messages on this site that there is potential to cause the bereaved family and friends a great deal of unnecessary distress by posting insensitive and misinformed comments. Personally, I have been angered and upset by reading many of the above messages

Please consider the feelings of the families before posting

Two people , at least one of them brilliant , and both very much in love - have died here and you want to discuss the law.

Stop trying to make yourself look clever, i dont really care for your opinion on Euthenasia right now.

No offence but I hope you can understand.

#81 BW
I agree. Apart from expressing condolences and everyone concurring on the tragedy of this, there remains no more to be said. I would hope the Scotsman terminates this comments page soon before someone IS upset by ill-considered remarks.

Alright Balloon - like I've said in #42 - this is not an appropriate linking of a tragic event with the debate but at the same time, i simply wanted to point out that individual examples, matters of conscience are exactly that.

The law on euthanasia is a potentially an extremely sensitive and dangerous area for a lot of vulnerable people.

A lot of people have used this example today to promote euthanasia as a valid choice. In fact Balloon, to be fair, you were also drawn into this. I have expressed the view that it is an agonising matter of conscience but that it would be a mistake to institutionalise euthanasia.

Sincerest condolences - may the beauty of their lives will be what is remembered and celebrated.

Leave the moralising and bickering for another (every) day.

Swamptrash were the soundtrack to life at the Edinburgh College of Art in the Eighties. Harry's drawings were a rare shaft of art and intellect in Scottland's media. I am saddened by this news and we are all the worse off for it.

Unless any of us have been married to MS or committed our life literally by marriage to our soulmate, we are not qualified to judge Richard or Mandy's final solution. Only #48 is closest to their fear. We don't have a choice whether we enter mortal existence but we do have a choice in how we end it. Man/sheman are so busy trying to control our world, we forsake real acceptance of a supreme guidance. Those that leave early and those that remain in pain have different kinds of strength but none of us are qualified to judge. If there is a heaven, I bet Mandy's chewing Richard up and down for forsaking God's gift. We don't control the gateways; even if you think you do, He/She knows different. And I'm sure Richard thought it best for Roo that he went too. Celebrate their life's play, for their exit was not for you.

The world is a poorer place without them both.
Went to numerous Swamp gigs and enjoyed them all. The band brought such joi de vivre and fun to the Edinburgh music scene at that time.

Their music is so hard to get hold of - anyone have a CD that they could copy for me? A recording of this is essential to appreciate such talent.

Son of Gramsci#9

What an excellent letter. the paradigm for good death , as you have said, begins with the fact of the inevitability of death.

Subsequent decisions about one's death are then about one's choice of when to die.

My daughter is almost four, and a huge fan of the 'Little Rabbit' books. As I read the paper today she asked me about the 'man and lady' in the pictures. Whilst we knew nothing of the man behind the books, we have been privileged to have known something of his work. Our condolences to family and friends.

Love till the end. May they rest in peace. An their pets too because ALL DOGS GO TO HEAVEN.

# 81 and 83

The posts here might be occasioned by the deaths of two particular people but there are not necessarily comments on them. One course, one should not pass disrespectful or needlessly hurtful remarks at any time.

I feel that we are all entitled to die with dignity..and dignity is the way WE perceive it. In the case of a couple who love each other so much that neither of them can envisage life without the other..I believe that they are perfectly entitled to end their lives together..if they feel that they should die together. Who are we to judge? The so-called lobbyist for this or that can only speak when they are in such circumstances otherwise they better keep their big mouths shut. I have the greatest respect for this couple and admire their courage and resolve.

#34:

Why is it wrong...explain with your reasoning

#41:

Live is not a gift...It is a biological chance

Chill - people - Chill

Mandy and her love did what they wanted to do with free wills.
What was wrong with that?

I think most of you should go and have your debates elsewhere. Leave the family, friends and small community of Burra to grieve and get over the terrible shock of losing such a wonderful couple Mandy and Harry. Hope you both have the peace you both so rightfully deserve.

To have loved is never to lose.

very hard to say why the animals were put down, are we talking about a cat and a dog, or were there many other animals , ei cows, sheep, sorry i dont know all the story, maybe there was no one who would care for them and that was the worry, that they would be left to starve . And for the gentleman, maybe there was no one to console him and help him past this tradgety , and on to a live that his wife may have wanted for him , ie to go on and maybe help others in his community who are also less fortunate, Im sorry it happened this way

A few things:

First, I support the right to die. If I were in pain and terminal, why should someone else have the right to tell me I have to live on and suffer, and to what end? So I can die but not now? For whose benefit would my life be strung out? Certainly not mine.

However, I was sorry to read the pets were killed as well. Animals can not speak for themselves. I wish they had given the pets away. That made me tear up.

Second, for those who bring religion in to this debate (and other debates as well), remember that not everyone believes in god and to assume so is rude. Why should I be forced to live under someone else's religious beliefs?

Third, some clarification. Someone posted earlier that "MS is a very debilitating disease," and I want to clarify that statement. There are two kinds of MS--Relapsing/Remitting and Progressive. I have R/R MS, and a mild case--I'm lucky in that respect. People with Secondary Progressive experience a steady decline without the periods of remission those with R/R have.

The relative quoted said Mrs. Horne could neither speak nor walk. I can only imagine what other hell she was in due to loss of muscle and motor control. Those who say the so-named suicide pact was wrong should imagine living as she was forced to and not be so quick to make statements of condemnation.

Oh, this poor family. My thoughts go out to them.

Although I have no issue at all with the couple taking their own lives, the choice to put down their pets was unforgivable. When becoming a pet owner, you undertake the responsibility for the life and happiness of that pet. Unfortunately, all too often, people don't consider that when making decisions.

It is painful to imagine the conversations they must have had to reach their decision. For them this was a release but legalising euthanasia is not the answer. Finding cures for debilitating diseases is.

Please stop trivialising this.
Harry was a genius who lived and died an artist. He and Mandy loved their pets more than anyone I've ever met. That they loved each other is obvious.
Harry's visual art is easy to find and appreciate, his music not so easy. I think it is likely that we will be releasing some of our recordings from the eighties with the proceeds going towards MS research - I wish we could do more.

Re 98: Dr Shipman was a murderer. As the latest research shows, so was Dr John Bodkin Adams. There have probably been other doctors in Britain who have killed their patients for gain rather than pity but have not been found out.

God bless them and their pets, but I wish they had made some contingency plans for the pets, as they surely had some plan in mind for their own future. Doubt it would have been too hard to find a new home for them as most Scots I know are animal lovers. But maybe they just all wanted to be together.
Rest in peace and love.

I sympathise with this couple and do understand them only too well. I was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease when I was in my 50's and now ,7 years later, I am quite bad, so thank you 48 for trying to make people unnderstand. I also use a wheelchair - and also an electric buggy. I can't walk unaided either - or even dress myself. My husband whom I met 40 years ago and married 37 years ago is the most adorable and wonderful man I have ever met but I can't help feeling what a burden I am to him. He isn't fullly mobile hímself either because his biceps múscles don't work and have wasted following an accident. Under these circumstances you both know that one day it might all get too much to bear any more, Idon't think any of you could help it if it was happeniing to you whatever you say. I think I wouldn't leave my pets either because you wouldn't know if you were going to make the rest of their lives unbearable. They might be ill-treated by someone or they might mourn inconsolably - think of the famous graveyard terrier.............

I know the helpless feeling MS can produce , my daughter has it , her stage is very mild right now if it gets bad some day and her quality of life is not there any more i really don't think i could watch her suffer ,i really don't know if i could help her end her life my selfishness to keep her here would stop me .His love for her made him go with her so she wouldn't be alone

98. Hugh V McLachlan, thank you for pointing out my clumsy phrasing, though this might be a semantic point.

Perhaps what I should have said is that I support the right of self-determination. It should be up to me whether to end my life. I feel it is obnoxious to force someone to suffer in pain with no hope of recovery. The person suffering should be the one to determine whether he or she can leave this earth. Or are you suggesting there should be some sort of court at which one must present one's case?

It is unfortunate you dragged Shipman into your discussion of my comments--I'm not sure what the motive there is. If you wish to discuss Shipman, please do it in another post. I dislike your insinuation that I somehow glorify a man like this.

To reiterate: I am not saying I would make the determination for others--as you, I am sure, understand--only for myself.

May they rest in peace.

Obviously they loved each other very much. I doubt if either would want to hear some of the anger that their action has taken whether one if for or against taking one's life. May all of us respect each others opinions.

thanks for the genius inspiration also a very generous witty person. love to the families

http://profile.myspace.com/swamptrashtheband

I feel that it is a terrible lose of life and that they could see no other way forward as life is so precious. They must have been so much in love that Harry could not live without Mandy but still it is very sad as they were so young. My heat goes out to their families and may they rest in peace free at last.

103-Please find a good home for your pets. They'll be loved. Your story touched me, and anyone who has a problem with euthanasia should really consider your post. Fight on dear.

104-I can hardly imagine what it feels like to be in such a position. My prayers are with you.

Well well, when the smell of death's in the air, the blowflies come a-callin', & there they are in their clouds, above. Shame on you who use this as a forum for a wider debate. Today we celebrate the lives of two talented, loving people. Memories & humanity should be recognised for now. All else can come later, but will never take away from how much Harry gave to the world, & a lot of this was inspired by Mandy. Religionists/creationists/god-botherers not in the know about such matters as affected them, save it for the sweet sherry & bridge on Friday night.

I think the dog may have died already.

As someone who got to know Harry, Mandy and Roo when they came to Fala (and Gifford) can I say how saddened the small village of Gifford is tonight even though they were only here for a few years. Some of the comments are clearly distasteful (and ignorant) so if you're new to this post can I just suggest the following (in this order)
#94
#100
#81
#85
#107
#108
#65

What a wonderful couple. They chose their way, that was their right, and took it one loving step further and took their beloved pets with them rather than abandon them to uncertain future.
How incredibly sad they could not share their decision with family and friends, possibly because of repressive religious-based laws and medieval punishments.
Not being burdened with religion I can only hope that such an opportunity would be available if I decide to shuffle off this mortal coil and avoid the keep-'em-alive-and-in-pain medical profession.
I salute you, Mandy and Richard, and your unnamed pets; would like to have known such people of courage who truly lived and died their own way.

#117

Are all Canadians as sickening as this?

Unbending Atheist, your last comment was in very poor taste. Hopefully the moderators will have the decency to remove it

Mandy and Richard are a family, and their pets are family too. They couldn't bear to leave them to the distress of a new family, and did what I would do too - they took them with them. I was in tears reading this story, even more so when I read that they had asked for replies to their blog on New Year's Day. Did they get any?
God bless them, their family and friends.

I have fond memories of Harry stampeding down the hill at Kineton Cricket Club and bowling his wild deliveries with typical flamboyance.

You could not have met a better bloke. Life and soul of the party with so many funny stories.

Mandy was a lovely lady, I just remeber being very pretty and very kind. I didn't know she was ill. She didn't deserve to suffer as she obviously was.

Harry knew that and did what he felt he needed to do.

I haven't seen Harry for a couple of years and have no idea when I would have seen him again, but I still miss him terribly. It is just completely tragic.

There was a programme on TV recently called something like Apes are People Too. Do the animal sentimentalists among us feel that human rights should be extended to dugs too? If so, were these unfortunate canines murdered?

Your comments are in extremely poor taste...for someone who has been working on maintaining their inner moral whatever.....

I haven't had a chance to read all of the comments in detail, as there are so many of them; however, I just wanted to say to Hair Care Baby McGhee that I appreciate the comments and the intelligent way you presented your view. I am torn about my feelings on the subject, but I do agree with you that sociologically there are too many potential negative outcomes to making euthenasia legal, and therefore I must agree that it is wrong. The 'slippery slope' is a scary path to go down... although I cannot imagine dealing with such pain on a daily basis, I also recognise the problems that legalisation could lead to.

As for the comment by Canuckgirl about being 'burdened by religion' - I doubt that many people following a religious path today would consider it a burden. I am sorry that you seem to feel such pity for those who have chosen to include religion in their lives.

Finally, I hope the couple rest in peace, and I send out my most heartfelt condolences to their family and friends.

Yes, killing old people is murder, Some people try to dress it up with fancy, innocent-sounding names - like euthanasia.

Stooshie - i don't think that it is shameful to discuss the wider issue. It does not mean any disrespect and I apologise if this was how this was interpreted. the Scotsman has used this story to stimulate debate (there are two parts to the article). I, for one noticed a lot of pro-euthanasia posts and felt that it was appropriate to introduce the point that the decisions of particular individuals can be understod with a lot of compassion and understanding - admiration - but I think that as a policy, it would be very dangerous for many vulnerable people. This does need to be said especially as these circumstances are very particular.

Peace and sincere condolences to all as well.

How can youse all say how beutiful it was for this pair of folk to die when you dont know how it happened? Beats me.How does any one who was not their know what happened? The police havent said it was a beutiful suicide pact like youse are making out. Truth could be diferent. Stop using this horibble thing for your own soapboxs.

#16 I too at first did'nt understand the pets but after thinking about it and how I feel about my own dogs I realized the dogs may have been older animals and were a part of a very loving family and perhaps the thought of leaving them alone was too much. They were family and the family is together now. God Bless them all.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20030608/...

unthinking atheist - have a bit of respect

#130

Nice one, Gibbo.

That dosent mean i support you and your views either Unbending Aetheist. Evryone should leave the familys alone now and stop all this thinking and plugging of there own egoes. And i will folow my own advice and leave them to greave in peace out of respect. I would ask youse all to do the same. Respects and kind wishes to the familys and freinds.

Hair Care Baby McGhee said that "the Scotsman has used this story to stimulate debate". I think the Scotsman have been at best nieve and at worst extremely cynical with how they have linked this story to a euthanasia debate and encouraged people to discuss the subject on the same webpage as the report of Harry and Mandy's deaths. As Gibbo correctly states, there is very little information regarding this tragic case in the public domain. Even the Scotsman uses the terminology of "Apparent suicide pact" and "One theory"

Inevitably, this has led to people jumping to conclusions, speculating and making moral judgements on circumstances they have little or no knowledge of. I think the Scotsman have made an error of judgement by using Mandy and Harry's deaths as a point of debate

Again, I urge people to think carefully before posting

True bw, but the horse has bolted. the scotsman is getting trashier and trashier and I really sympathise about the way your friends have been used in this way.

best wshes

What a beautiful place and way to go. You have my utmost respect for what you have done. All the best for your futures.

136 - shame on you.

139 - see BWs posts and mine, leave the romance out til you know it belongs. Leave them all in peace up their. its a small place and they are all very close, not like most otherplaces this days. They will all be feelling it so if youse all have the respect for these two folk that you claim, hows about proving it and stopping this topic now.

#52 Reading Public, #117 Cunuckgirl.
GOOD POSTS .."Right there" with both of you.

Dear Gibboo, I don't have a romantic side and if you're so concerned then stop "posting" and show a bit of integrity and reflect the community you're so sensitive about

I know Harry would have been very, very upset about some of the crap that's come out here.
And I'm very surprised and disappointed that someone from the Scotsman, a newspaper with which he was involved on and off for many years, saw fit to open this topic to public idiocy at this time.
Whoever made that decision should be very ashamed and should rectify their mistake as soon as possible.

What a lovely photograph. Sad to know they are dead. A personal tragegy for all those involved.

Hugh, I agree that it would be best not to read this nonsense. The point is that to open this to ignorant speculation and shallow opinionating shows absolutely no loyalty or feeling from a newspaper which Harry was involved with. It has obviously sunk even beneath contempt.

Ihave read all the comments on this page and should just like to express my extreme sadness and overwhelming confusion regarding this story.

Chief Inspector Malcolm Bell has stated that this matter is being treated as "suspicious".

I believe that we should all express our condolences to the family of these two beautiful souls who have departed this planet - whether they chose to die together or not their deaths must have come as a terrible shock to their family and friends.

Until the police advise that it was suicide I think it best to say "adieu and may you both rest in peace.

Discussing the rights and wrongs are not really important. What is important is that two people have passed away and we must allow them to be mourned. My heart goes out to all who have been touched by this tragedy.

Harry's music and art enriched the lives of all those who embraced it, with a wit, humour and joy of life.
His story's written and spoken fired the imagination of children and adults alike.
He was the most skilled artist it was my great fortune to know, and i always have and always will think of him when i hear the expression 'larger than life'.
That Mandy and he chose to end their time, is a validation of love that is more profound than any words i can find to write.

God bless you - Harry, Mandy & Roo

amen

To: #119 Unbending Atheist

"#117 Are all Canadians as sickening as this?"

Sad you find admiration and respect 'sickening'.

yes wreckage, life was so much richer for them

I want to add my wholehearted support to posts by Garry banjo and others who find this message thread disgusting.

The ethical values of the Scotman have been decling for years but to trivialise the death of a former employee by turning it into a cyber-circus largely populated by nutters is breathtaking in its contempt for the family.

Please, in the interests of common decency, close this thread NOW.

a modern love story?
he could not see her suffer any longer,
yet could not live with out her.

it sends a tear to my eyes.

How very sad. Wherever they are now I hope they see the 'tributes' that have come in to them. RIP and condolences to their family and friends.

99, well said.

Moaners, did you gripe as much when Jackie Kennedy/Onassis had a 'lethal cocktail' given to her? The father of a friend of mine had that, there was a wondeful celebration of his life in his bedroom for the previous 2 days and they all, including him, enjoyed that, and his death was a dignified one. Would you let any beloved pet suffer unnecessarily, or would you ask the vet to 'put him to sleep'?

48 and 104, please look into 'Jin Shin Jyutsu' (it's not a martial art LOL) sometime, the situation is not completely without hope for improvement.

I feel very sad about the physical agony - and the subsequent mental agony - that this couple (and their pets) faced. I believe none of us have a right to judge what they had to do. And as a former journalist, I can only say that The Scotsman reported this objectively (the reporter and editors must have agonized over that too).
The debate over the propriety of euthanasia is unfortunate (those with proper sympathy for the ending of these lives would not have brought it up). But as it has been raised, I'd like to tell folk of my personal experience. I have been seriously ill six times in my 70 years, and the thought of ending-it-all did haunt me now and then. My last "crash" (multiple organ failure, five years ago) put me in Intensive Care for six months and left me with a number of disabilities; if it hadn't been for my caring wife I know I would have died. But my point is that - while having morphine support - I truly wanted to die. I was a misery to myself, my wife and a few others. But my wife wouldn't allow me to consider ending it. I don't know if she was right, but here I am in the land of the living. I still believe in euthanasia for those in great distress (or those who have a reasonable expectation of subsequent pain and of their useless to others). But my own experience has shown that it can be very difficult to judge your own prospects (I'm enjoying life at the moment - and I love my wife). Life is a puzzle, and we deserve to have the right to direct our lives (or deaths)!

Yes, I do believe that gracefull exists are much preferred and taking their dog with them was not so cruel. Animals left behind, do not really do very well; there is more too them than food, water and walkies. I am happy they all went together.
MS is the most evil of diseases, a cure must be found. I don't think of this as a suicide, but rather an end to unbearable pain on all levels.
I hope to meet them oneday, when it is my time.
They sound like wonderful people, with great love and talent.

I said in #49 that the scotsman was right, in my opinion, to cover the story in this way, on second thoughts when i read some of these comments i don't know. Some rather insensitive things have been said.
I still believe we have a right to die but whether this could be made legal and free from abuse is debatable. this couple did what was felt was right for them and nobody knows the turmoil that was involved. as for the pets, animals grieve, i wouldnt want my dogs to be left pining and maybe even unwanted. I'm sure a lot of heartbreaking thought went into the decisions that were made. My thoughts are with the families.

I can understand the suicide pact, but why involve their pets, surely they could have been rehomesd?

Addressing the issue of the faithful, loving dogs:
Life for them, without their beloved master and mistress, even if they had been taken in by well-meaning friends and family, would have been unbelievably desolate and sad.
Dogs grieve just as we do but what makes it worse is we cannot sit them down and explain why their loved ones are gone.
Harry, Mandy, and pets are together forever in spirit.
Blessings on them.

I shared a flat with Harry in the mid-80s (when Swamptrash started) and I remember him as being warm, witty, charming, intelligent and simply full of life - the irony is painful. I never met Mandy but she must have been very special to him.

My deepest sympathy to both their families and their friends.

#128 "Unbending Athiest"
You ARE "tongue In cheek", I hope? If you ARE serious..do not know where you came from, But you might consider returning.
Most "confirmed Athiests" (Me) "attempt" to be pragmatic and understanding. We also view our "fellow animals"(dugs) in the same light.
You APPEAR JUST TO BE "BITTER",... SAD for you.
(and anyone connected with you)

I went out with Harry when I was a teenager and he not much older. He was a genius and a gentleman then, as I now gather he has been his whole short life. I am glad to know he found his perfect soul-mate, and I hope they and their pets will now be together forever. If as an artist I leave behind me the quarter of the great work he did I will think I've given the world its dues. R. I. P. Harry (Richard) and Mandy, and their beloved animals.

Re 160 I understand your worry but consider Greyfriar's Bobby a local legend that engaged Harry (richard ) in his younger years not all animals can bear rehoming, some are so very attached that it is but torture, only the associate of an animal can know how they would fare rehomed Harry was a gentle man, he would have not done any violence that could have been avoided.

Sunday Herald December 10, 2006 12:29 AM
Every Day is Like Sunday

All my heroes are dead :
Just like Schopenhauer said
A freely chosen Death
Is only waking up
From this nightmare
We’re prisoners to a savage god
Blind obedient from beatings
Ordered by Bush and Blair
Those times new roman converts.
All my heroes are dead :
Blake, Burns, Byron and
John Balance
Kurt Cobain
Hart Crane
Hemingway
Virginia Wolf
Sylvia Plath
Vincent Van Gogh
Cut his ear off
All my heroes are dead :
As Hugh Cornwell said
No more heroes anymore
Just Tom and Katie
Waving from the door
Of their retreat in Tuscany
A fame addicted nonentity
And none to rouse us
From the nightmare
And lead us to the morning

Harry Horse

This is a very sad human tradegy and I have no intentions of passing judgements on the actions of this familly because I have never been there.
As for #16&55, I guess you value the life of animals over humans as greater?