Bush Blair Maddies change allies again?

Bush and Blair have no idea what they have done, what they are doing, or what they are going to do. Unlike Olmert and the Zionists, who are set on hegemony like their mentors Hitler and the Nazis.

The world knows they are criminals and gangsters and are out for themselves. Get them out of office and put them on trial.

First its Mossadeq, then Nasser, then Khomenei, then Saddam, then Taliban, then Al Queda, now the Mahdi. All to do with oil.

No wonder the Middle East are enraged at us; no wonder the whole place is a terrorist factory; no wonder they want us out of the place so they can run their own lives without interference.

We've brought all this mess on ourselves, and our strategy should be to make amends, get out with te minimum losses, and not darken their doors again.

Instead we just go on from bad to worse, and beat the hell out of anyone who might pose a threat to our wealth. This might have worked in the days of Pax Brittannica or Pax Americana, but it will not work now when everbody and his dog have nukes, dirty bombs, biological and chemical weapons. Not unless we really do want to blow the world to pieces, in which case we are going about it the right way.

Get rid of the excrement that has worked its way to the top, and lets get some good leaders now before it is too late!

"There will be limited and targeted operations against members of the Mahdi Army," a senior Shiite official said.GET READY EVERYBODY!!!!!
Tit for tat. Schoolboy stuff really.
1and2, I agree. No3,this is not an american football match.

3. Infidel

I'm not convinced that Islam is any more of a problem than Christianity or Judaism or anything else. You will find all kinds of justification in the Koran and the Bible and the Torah/Talmud for oppression and we are all guilty in that respect.

The savagery on both sides in the crusades, the inquisition, 9/11, Israeli atrocitities, Taliban, Al Queda, etc are all evidence of perversion of religion.

The sort of stuff that Europe went through in the middle ages is pretty well the norm in other continents today. The people are easily led astray and stirred up with disastrous consequences, and we really need to keep our distance from their evolution.

I agree entirely with the second part of your posting. "We are up against Nazism in a beard but it needs to be tackled through words and ideas, more than guns and bullets, and the latter approach has to be done only where there is no alternative as it inevitably inflames the jihad and generates more recruits. Until our leaders and media waken up to the fact that it is ISLAM itself that is the problem and start ruthlessly criticising, ridiculing and denouncing it, we have no hope. Criticism is Islam's Achilles heel. Look at the way Mohammedans go berserk over mere cartoons. This is how we should hit them, and keep hitting them, hard. Our leaders and media are paralysed by political correctness as they desperately try not to cause offence." Exactly right.

"The alternatives are all out war, or submission and paying the jizya." The third alternative, of standing our ground, looking after our own patch, not being afraid to speak out against PC rubbish, and most of all keeping a dialogue with our supposed adversaries is the way to go.

All out war as a last resort is always there, but I don't think all the alternatives have been tried yet,
certainly not by Bush and Blair and their criminal colleagues whom we need to get rid of and put on trial for the mess th

"jaques chirac, the French Pres, said the US-led invasion of Iraq had destabilised the entire Middle East & caused terrorism to spread, adding the problems in Iraq had justified his country's strong opposition to the war" WOW!!! & all this from a "white flag waving", "dirty money laundering for oil w/saddam" guy.......keep coddling the radical muslims in your country & they just may take over some day. you twit............

More conflict & more international pain. It will all come back to hit the US & UK in the face at a later date.

6. Sandy

Reach for your history book. The French have a fine fighting tradition, and have some of the best troops in the world. The Foreign Legion strike terror into each other's hearts, let alone anyone else's.

You must have heard of Verdun, where the French in their valiant fight against the Boche lost the best part of a generation. Fighting again in WW2 was not an option. Having said that there were many brave men and women who gave their lives in the resistance.

I can assure you the radical muslims are not coddled in France; they leave that sort of thing to the CIA with their Al Queda and Taliban friends, with the results we are all familiar with.

It is not often I take the side of the French, but it would have been better if Bush and Blair had listened to them and not launched illegal invasions resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths already and many more to come, ours as well as theirs.

Bill #9

It would have been better if they waited 6 months longer before invading Iraq so that they could adequately plan for the post saddam-era. As I have said many times and will continue to argue, the invasion was not only justified but also very successful.

We won the war easily. Unfortunately, we lost the peace just as easily through a lack of cognicent forethought to what would replace saddam. If we had put one quarter of the effort into plans for the peace that we had into the invasion then Iraq could be very different today.

Oliver, Sandy...I agree with both of you...but this al-Sadr is one huge problem, that has to be dealt with for the Iraqis' sake. This is a militia with death squads killing Sunnis, and adding to the civil war. al-Sadr has gotten away with the murder of some man a few years ago, and was supposed to have been arrested.

Bill..You can assure all you want, but you obviously do not remember the riots in the summer, with cars burning and looting from the muslims, and how easily Chirac gave into them.

lynne #11

I totally agree al-sadr's militia are a huge problem exacerbating an already horrendous sunni insurgency. The sectarian violence is appaling and it needs to stop.

The French...in the words of that great Scottish thinker,Grounds keeper Wullie.."cheese eating surrender monkeys"

11 Lynne

The Frogs are keen on riots, revolutions and such; if you saw the way the CRS lay into troublemakers you would think differently. They don't let things go too far before they get the truncheons, tear gas and water cannons out; you don't see anything like that in the USA and we don't see it in the UK either.

#9--Bill--re-read #6, i was specifically referring to Chirac.............non better than the French Legion of yesteryear & the French resistance were the best.
Chirac is still a twit & a coward & does coddle the radical muslims...........
#11--Lynne--they should have taken al-sadr out in '04 when they had the chance..............
#13--absolutely...........

#14--Bill--your right, you don't see that in the USA for the Muslim community certainly won't speak out against the terrorists & they dare not start any riots for the American citizens won't have it, & they know it...............

'The problem with Iraq is....it is full of Iraqis', George "Longshanks" Bush...

He--and his predecessors--have tried to solve this problem by murdering over 1 million of them... by supporting Saddam in his war of aggression against Iran; Mad Dog Albright...with her child-murdering sanctions and, of course, Queen George...with his war based on lies, lies, lies and more lies.

It is well past time for the United States military to come home and assist in bringing Constitutional rule to the United States. We have no business in Iraq beyond trying to make amends for the chaos and carnage that the New World Order Oligarchy has instituted in that land and to bring these monsters to trial...sending them to bark in hell with their former associate Saddam Hussein.

Bring the troops home now! That is how we can best support them! Let the Iraqis sort things out for themselves--as 90% of them in a recent poll believe that their lives were better under the late Saddam....before we came to 'help' them-- perhaps, they should have the opportunity to rule themselves without American, UK, al-CIAda and other terrorists blowing up every parked car in Baghdad and the people around them.

Bring the troops home now! Al-Sadr and his militia are part of the 'new' Iraq...a force that in the grand scheme of Iraqi politics is checkmated by other power centers.

Bring the troops home now! Senator Joseph Biden, the noted plagirist, says that the creatures around our beloved Queen George want 'the surge' to prevent the ignomious withdrawal from Iraq from occurring while the Queen is still in the White House. That is is goal worthy of our Queen George's character and intellect, but not one that is worth the expenditure of one cent or one drop of blood!

No doubt al Sadr has WMDs ? Remember them. As for the Koran being full of hatred and violence I wouldn't know as I've never read it, so I'm in no position to doubt your word. But have a look at your Bible, if you have one, especially the Old Testament - 'Smite the Amalakites', 'Thou shall not suffer a witch to live' etc. Yahweh was a malignant old soandso . God botherers of various religions are dangerous creatures when they end up with power.

LAST YEAR "RESTLESS YOUTH' NEAR PARIS BURNED OVER 9000 AUTOMOBILES OVER A TWO WEEK PERIOD, YEAH CHIRAC HAS THEM UNDER CONTROL. SINCE 911 THERE HAVE BEEN OVER 7100, (YES 7100) DEADLY TERRORIST ATTACKS WORLDWIDE. SOME OF YOU NEED TO WAKE UP!

#18--David65----HEAR! HEAR!...............

#18 David 65..Great post!!!..
Where in Fla.?

Check out "Juba, Baghdad Sniper" on the web. Sniper/s attacks on US military personnel are having a negative effect on morale in the field and also on military families back in the US. The clip's still there if you persevere. US authority can trickle fatalities out at 2-3 day and it will not create waves with the US public. However, a pivotal even of say several 100 US casualties in one attack may swing public opinion. But perhaps this has already happened and the US military are keeping a lit on it. See Forward Operating Base Falcon attack on 12 October 2006.

# 18 - yeah, yeah, ok man...(yawn)

#9
Well said. I'm no Francophile but their military history is grand. The medieval wheel of fortune turns for all people and states.

It's dirty Harry time in Iraq. Finally, the streets of Iraq will be swept of those punks! And this time, there won't be rules of engagement. Islam is a backward religion. If you disagree, why is the GNP of Spain (population 40 million) at $800 billion while the whole muslim world (population 1.2 billion) GNP stands at $500 billion? Did you know that Spain published more books last year than islam has in the past 1000 years? Even Utah, the Mormon state in the US, with a population of 2.3 million, put out more patents last year than the islamic world EVER has. Islam doesn't belive in science, universities, entertainment, the portrayal of humans on paint, etc. Oh, sure, that's not ALL of the muslims, but from what the 'western press' reports, there's no hope in the muslim world of anything but to be rescued by the West. Egads, islam is for losers.

#22--Jason--in a recent "Gallup poll", 67% of the American people believe the media coverage of the war in Iraq & Afghanistan is not accurate, & that is one of many reasons the subscription#'s in the major rags are off, big time...............
.....i see your still pimping your FOBF/attack (wrong)info, trying to convince all.........give it a break! no-one is interested in your propaganda........

#21--Infidel--well put!! why is it so difficult for anyone not to understand this?........

#10--Oliver F---would you agree that it takes longer to obtain peace when you have many factions to deal with & in the middle of a territory where the neighbouring states don't want peace? i'd cut the coalition some slack on this one..................

#25--DeeMac---very good intelligent assessment...

Sandy #28

I would completely agree that it takes longer to obtain peace when there are many factions and the countries neighbours are interfering in order to create more instability and hatred.

However, it may not have been this bad if we had planned more thoroughly for the aftermath of removing saddam. I think we in britain hold a lot of responsibility for that as Blair should have slowed Bush down to make sure we did it right. I was one of those who also made this mistake. I wanted saddam removed as he was scum and wanted it doing as quickly as possible so I admit I thought it would be easier than it has been. As the saying goes, Hindsight is 20/20. I still feel removing saddam was the right thing to do, though.

#30--Oliver F---would you also agree that unlike WW1 & WW2, the enemy isn't easily recognized in this war-on-terror & aside from Iraq & Afghanistan the "radical jihadists" are recruiting people in most countries. re-read the last entry in post #21. it says it all........free speech is a wonderful right, however i believe the blatant, public,vitriol of our military & our President by many democrats, in time of war, has helped their recruitment, & is responsible for the loss of many of our soldiers...........

DeeMac, Oliver and Sandy...I couldn't agree more.There is some semblence of sanity here. I am so tired of these naysayers, and belligerants and their repeated words of the elite media, etc.
The problem with Americans is we want it done yesterday. We have the patience of a gnat. That is why we should take a lesson from our foes Al Qaeda..They can wait years and years to accomplish their goals...Almost 8 years to down the World Trade Center.
I resent our politicians thinking they are warriors who know more than the Generals. You have to actually laugh at Pelosi and Reid..the armchair generals of the century.. They can tell you how to retreat and accept defeat!!

What galls me the most is some of these folks who think they know Americans, what is best for us, how wrong we are, and how we are the cause of all the world's problems.
I am tired of reading about the hanging of Saddam, and how bad we were to let it happen. It wan an Iraqi court, Iraqi verdict, Iraqi justice...but still the USA is at fault.
Not once did these same people complain about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that were killed, and the untold amounts of women and young girls who were in the rape rooms, and the people thrown off buildings to die..But Saddam's hanging was wrong!!!
The UN Complained about it!! That's the biggest joke of all.
Did they complain about Rowanda and Darfur, and the peacekeepers who are now raping children as young as 12?

Some perspective has to be used to see what is happening here.
And as far as Iran goes..the documents that were found are proof they have been funding the Shias AND the Sunnis, along with Hezbollah and Hamas.
No one says a word about them. Forget they are sending in foreign fighters, forget they are training insurgents...forget all that...but blame the US for all the problems in Iraq!!
It doesn't take a MENSA to figure out that to keep Chaos in Iraq is taking the world away from thinking about th

And Sandy... 31...you are absolutely right.. and Oliver, if only we had known what was to happen after the war was won!! Like you said..20-20 hindsight.

Sandy #31

"#30--Oliver F---would you also agree that unlike WW1 & WW2, the enemy isn't easily recognized in this war-on-terror & aside from Iraq & Afghanistan the "radical jihadists" are recruiting people in most countries"

I could write many words in response but this one needs only one succinct word: YES!

#25-- perhaps we'll see Dubya getting doon on his haunches and bowing towards Mecca then ?

# 50 -- 60 % of the American people also believe God created the world in 7 days : )

DeeMac...do you get Aish.com?

No Alternative to Democracy
by Jonathan Rosenblum
Countering radical Islam.
Francis Fukuyama posed a trenchant question for those neo-conservatives who so ardently supported President George W. Bush's quest to bring democracy to the Middle East in the November 2005 Commentary symposium "Defending and Advancing Freedom":
"So much of what neoconservatives have written over the past decades has concerned the unanticipated consequences of overly ambitious social engineering, and how the effort to get at root causes of social problems is a feckless task. [So] why should anyone have believed we could get at the root causes of alienation and terrorism in a part of the world we didn't understand particularly well, and where our policy instruments were very limited?"
A good question. And it would be an even better question had President Bush awakened one morning, asked himself what he could do to make the world a better place, and hit upon the idea of bringing democracy to the Moslem world by any and all means, including the overthrow of despotic regimes. That, unfortunately, is not exactly how things happened.
Rather the United States was hit by a major terrorist attack on Sept. 11, 2001, which claimed nearly 3,000 lives and brought the country's major economic center to a near standstill. September 11 cast, and continues to cast, a shadow over the future of America and the free world.
In addition, it revealed with full clarity that the West faced a new enemy. For various reasons, the president defined that enemy as terror and declared a war on terror. What that description of the task ahead gained in dramatic flare, however, it lost in analytical clarity. Terror is not the enemy; it is one of the tactics employed by the enemy.
The real enemy, as the president well knew, is political Islam, and the dream of reestablishing an Islamic imperial empire across the globe that lies at its ideological core. Refu

That includes both those living in Moslem states, which by every measure of progress have fallen dramatically behind their non-Moslem neighbors, despite, in many cases, being endowed with untold riches in natural resources. (The GNP of Israel, for instance, a nation with few natural resources, is greater than all its Arab neighbors combined, despite their far greater populations and natural resources.) And it includes millions of Moslems living in Western Europe as second class citizens in their host countries.
President Bush and his advisors could not have failed to notice that terrorism has become something of an Islamic monopoly in recent years, and that the failed and deformed states of the Middle East have produced most of the world's terrorists. Terrorism, as David Brooks has noted, is what Moslem jihadis do, because terrorizing the West is the one thing that they do well, the one thing that gives them a sense of power.
The anger of millions of young Arab males simmers, and is ever waiting to erupt. And that anger feeds on itself. The more Moslems try to find salve for present failure in dreams of past and future glory, the more unpalatable the present becomes.
Suddenly aware of the new threat, President Bush faced two questions: (1) how to degrade the capabilities of already existent terrorist groups; and (2) how to drain the swamps that have produced a seemingly endless stream of recruits to the banner of radical Islam. The answer given by President Bush to the second question was nothing less than the transformation of failed Middle Eastern states by means of democratization and liberalization.
Obviously transformation of even one society, much less an entire region, is a vast undertaking. Nor could it yield results in the short-run. Indeed as Fukuyama points out, the immediate effect of the disruption of traditional, hierarchical societies could make more attractive highly structured, authoritarian sects that claim to have the di

Second, among those who acknowledge the Islamic nature of the threat, no one has offered any alternative to the liberalization and democratization of failed Middle Eastern states. As Charles Krauthammer said in a November 14 speech at the Foreign Policy Research Institutes annual dinner, "[The enterprise of changing the culture of the Arab world] was . . . a radical idea, an arrogant idea, a risky idea. But it was the only idea of any coherence and consistency that anyone has advanced on how to change the underlying conditions that led to 9/11."
President Bush has noted many time the failure of the United States' traditional Middle East realist policy, based on propping up pro-Western despots. Saudi Arabia and Egypt, the lynchpins of "realist" strategy, produced virtually all of the 9/11 hijackers, and the leading Islamist ideologues. And Saudi-exported Wahhabism inspires fanatical Islamic groups around the globe.
The Islamists themselves have tacitly acknowledged the threat democratization poses to their dream of a new world-wide caliphate governed by Islamic law. In a famous letter to Osama bin Laden, Jordanian-born Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the most vicious leader of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq, declares war "on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this evil ideology." In that same letter, Zarqawi set forth his strategy for preventing democracy in Iraq: trigger a civil war by terrorist attacks on Shiites, which will lead to Shiite retaliation against Sunnis, which will then force all Sunnis to join the battle. Though Zarqawi is thankfully no longer with us, we are pretty much watching that strategy play itself out today in Iraq.
But as Norman Podhoretz asks, "If this murderous collection of diehard Sunni Baathists and vengeful Shiite militias, together with their allies inside the government agreed that democratization had already failed, would they be waging so desperate a campaign to defeat i

To be sure, no one in his right mind would declare the effort at establishing a viable democratic society in Iraq a success. The real question, however, is whether that lack of success demonstrates the inherent incompatibility of Moslem societies and democracy, as many have suggested.
That verdict would seem, at the very least, to be greatly premature. Millions of Iraqis risked life and limb to vote not once but three times. A constitution has been drafted and approved.
It is hard to get a grip on precisely who is killing whom, and for what reason, or to know how many Iraqis are participating in the current violence. It seems hard to believe that most Iraqis would prefer the even bloodier civil war into which Iraq would certainly degenerate in the absence of American troops to finding some kind of framework for all ethnic groups in what would inevitably be a Shiite-dominated state.
Unquestionably, mistakes in American planning and execution contributed to the current morass. Precisely what those mistakes were is less clear. For every expert, for instance, who claims that the Iraqi army should not have been disbanded and that de-Baathification went to far, one can find another expert to argue that it should have gone farther, in order to restore Shiite confidence in American intentions shattered by the American abandonment of the Shiites to Saddam's butchers after having encouraged them to rebel in 1991.
Most experts agree that American troops should have removed Muqtada al-Sadr from the scene when an Iraqi magistrate issued an arrest warrant on murder charges. The Shiite death squads of his Mahdi Army constitute one of the most destabilizing forces in Iraq today. And al-Sadr is one of those who would definitely prefer a civil war to political rapprochement, as he believes that the result of that war would be to bring Iraq into the orbit of Iran. It is far from clear, however, that most Iraqi Shiites seek an Iranian-style theocracy or a clo

Lynne 32 And I am fed up with Americans posting on Scottish websites telling us you know better!
You spout your anti muslim drivel at every opportunity yet never touch the subject of Israel who you fund.
yadadada...when are you gonna stop sounding like your labotomised president???

I was in Iraq for over 2.5 years. I was around Basrah, and further north up to Balad. I was in Baghdad for months and spent over the last year and a half in Fallujah. Let me explain something to you people. Al Sadr is nobody. People only follow him because of his father, he himself has done nothing but ride his father's wave. Now that does not mean he is not dangerous because he is, but his followers are following him because of his name.

I fully support Bush and Blair in what they have done. Have there been mistakes? Of course there have been, you show me one war there hasn't been mistakes!

You can say what you want, but I will tell you that the press has lied so badly to the public. I have met tons of Iraqis and they have been so grateful for what we have done. I have also met many prisoners, and the large majority of them are not even Iraqis. In Fallujah, we captured tons of Syrians, some Saudis, Jordanians, Iranians, Turks, Chechnians, and even one American. You didn't hear about any of that in the press.

One of my favorite shows in Iraq was when they would interview captured terrorists. I saw to Active Duty Syrian officers that had been captured with the terrorists. One was a General, and the other was a Colonel. They later on captured a lower ranking officer, whom they hung with the first batch of terrorists that they hung.

If there were more time I could tell you lots of stories about WMDs and things. Don't lose sight of the fact that this was was mainly about sanctions that were being broken right and left. I cannot tell you how many French made things I have personally seen there. I mean military things. The Russians were making money hand over fist from Saddam, as well as the Germans. Of course the Frogs didn't want us to go to war, that would cut their income back considerably.

James Douglas..Please make the time.

A.K #42

Everyone here is entitled to his/her opinion, and to put his/her views across no matter whether he/she is an American or British or Australian...... That's what this forum is for from Scotsman. If you are fed up with Lynne, then very simple. Don't respond and stay out!!