Yeah, they'll talk like they talked about the smoking ban! Looks like the chickens are coming home to roost! All you health fascists who sucked up to the ban will now have to forego your favourite pub if it doesn't have enough seats!

There again, I doubt that you people would be seen dead in pubs with character! This WILL be the death of pubs in Edinburgh if it goes through!

How on earth is that going to work during Rugby internationals?

Good to see the council pandering to the big pub chains... This is the death knell for pubs with atmosphere and character. Absolutely shocking

It's a stealth law. By cutting numbers in pubs , the exec hope to reduce people drinking.

DO you see it , do you get it now ?

Why not just get folding chairs, does this state that 50% of the bar have to be sitting down?

First the smoking ban now the seating % the little pubs with character will be forced to close just like the corner shop before the supermarket.

Compare to pay and taxes: the first £X is non taxed, the rest is. That offset stops silly behaviour for low numbers.

Using the same system for this idea, allow a "tax-free" 20 sqr.m before calculating the customer area that "must have 50% seating".

#1 What are you talking about? This is nothing to do with the smoking ban

50% seating is a ludicrous idea. They cannot even enforce maximum standing arrangements in buses and trains.

Maybe the Council should be allowed to share in the tax revenues these premises generate? Then we'd have a lot less of these restrictions and a move towards the genuine, relaxed 24 hour continental culutre the Lib Dems touted they wanted before being elected.

Of course, if the Dagda was a strip joint it'd be liberty hall as far as the council was concerned. Maybe this is the future - just turn all the small, conversation friendly pubs into private members clubs. Membership available upon application. Cost? The price of a pint.

I somehow doubt that the number of seats in a venue is a direct indicator of how much trouble it will cause so what is the real motiviation here?

I would have thought that in the large "super pubs" it is far harder for the staff to monitor how much people have had to drink and much harder to refuse to sell them more. If this is the true source of the problem then this is what needs to be fixed.

How "vibrant" will some of the city's nightspots be if everyone is sitting quietly at their tables ? I'm with #9 - this is simply daft and therefore no surprise who is promoting the idea.

Wonderful news - when I've finished my gym work out every third Friday of the month I like to treat myself to a half glass of wine - now that all the horrid smokers are gone, it looks as though it will only be a short while before I can stroll directly to the spotless bar without some beer swilling oink getting in my way.........

LOL.

Will lying down on the floor count?

#13...

Only if your not trying to hold on.

Good point Conan.

I'm a clever scientist and I've done a lot of research using cowboy films which proves that providing seating actually contributes to violence in licensed premises with risks to customers being struck over the head by chairs and inevitable damage to any big plate glass windows nearby. Surely some simple precautions like not serving anyone wearing a dark coloured stetson and ensuring that bottles of red-eye etc are safely stowed under the bar rather than on that long shelf at the back would make more sense. Pianos should certainly be banned as there is an indisputable correlation between a tune coming to a sudden end and an outbreak of gratuitous violence.

I have to say with laws as ridiculous as this one I am starting to miss Ewan Aitken and his cronies looks like with the council its a case of rubbish out and even more rubbish in.

I just think this is really funny , you'll probably find there is a lot more to it than the wee moany bits that the EEN prints.

It's obviously not in this newspapers interest to publish a reasonable piece which argues for the Fors and Against , dammit , it doesnt even try to explain WHY it's being done.

The only thing it's interested in is keeping the good miserable citizens or edinburgh miserable by fulfilling their need to be miserable.

Works a treat , every time.

#16
And DON'T ask for sarsparilla.

I've already told Dagda that I'm prepared to get my top off at midnight if it'll get us an extra hour of drinking.

If the bar has a pool table and it's no your turn to play - would you have to sit doon, or if the seating quota was already used up, would you have to go and stand in the street with your pool cue and wait till it was your turn? Goin past a pub if there was a game of doubles on would be a scary thought - 3 punters wi pool cues standing outside!!

What about darts night......

#23
Are you suggesting we sit on oor darts?

They're at it again - Fer fecks sake can they not just........Please............ LEAVE US IN PEACE!!!

If folk don't like a pub or standing in it they will leave.

It's called FREEDOM of choice..........

OOps.sorry ........forgot.we don't have too much of that these days do we.

Stop trying to control our lives!!

#23 nice one Brendan ha ha

"Councillor Marjorie Thomas, convener of the city's licensing board, said: "This is a draft policy...." Keg or barrel?

As was feared/suggested by many at the introduction of the smoking ban, this could be regarded as an extension of that policy.

Why don't the licensing board just withdraw pub licenses and close them all down?

The adoption of this policy will mean the end of most pubs with any character, while the chain pubs will thrive unless the public boycott them.

Can we assume that in a pub with 28 seats and therefore 28 standing places that if all 56 slots are taken no one else will be allowed into the premises?

No real lose. Edinburgh has too many (crap) pubs.

I've asked this before but I'll try again. Who is going to police this? Will there be council head/seat counters patrolling the pubs and clubs of Edinburgh?

This is just bizarre. The average pub in edinburgh causes no trouble, no matter how many people are sitting or standing. It's the big crappy places that attract the p***-heads and allow them to get s***-faced that are the issue. Everyone knows which pubs these are and they alone should be targeted by taking away the licence when their customers cause trouble.
If they are going to do something like this then it the 50% seating rule should just apply to large capacity pubs. How do the powers that be propose to manage this during rugby internationals? Muppets!!!

Well the brewers couldn't let the market limit the number of pubs - hence the prevalance of happy hours and all you can drink for a tenner promotions - so presumably they won't worry to much if the number of pubs is cut.

i'll just carry a fold away chair about with me when out on the town and hey presto i will be allowed into any pub and bring a friend. Can also double up as a weapon if the need arises!!

Do you have a lobotomy once you join the council to ensure that any grain of common sense you hold is destroyed before making these decisions.

29 Its not that hard to police you just give bars a capacity based on number of seats available + standing allowed then the door staff have to count people in or out and if you exceed that amount an enviromental warden comes in and fines the bar.

That means every pub in the city will need someone on the door at all times keeping a count of how many customers are present and controlling entrance to the bar.
Will this affect hotels as well?
Will a hotel guest be told, sorry you cant go to the bar for a drink as we have reached the full number of customers allowed by law.

I think youll find generally that it is legislation that will be used further to get some of the shi@tty dodgy nightclubs closed when it's necessary.

As everyone can see there's no way people are going to be going round and counting how many people are standing up.

Dont take it so seriously , use your head a wee bit !

35 You get a sensor above the door linked to the till which monitors and reports how many people are in the bar. This also saves the enviromental warden from having to do a head count.

The fine will be set at such a level that the owners of bars will be so scared of overcrowding and the chance that a fine will put them out of business and therefore they will be willing to pay for the technology.

I just cannot take this seriously. The clubbers will have to be playing musical chairs in Ego on a saturday night. i was a barmaid in a past life and there is nothing like a good chair fight to finish the night off.
i would suggest bolted down seating but im afraid the high up yins might take it seriously.

# 16 you made me chuckle.....

The city chiefs (amature politicians) come out with this type of drivel in an attemt to convince the Edinburgh public the the city chiefs know best.
Unfortunately most most of the city chiefs have an IQ of around v-1

# 37 good idea Arnie

Obviously the cooncil think tank will give it some thought (not)

psst,

Don't mention 'Vertical Drinkers' whatever you do, don't want our wonderfully overpaid Cooncillors to get wind of this crazy notion from across the Forth.

I for one drink more whilst seated, and only when I stand up do I realise the true amount of alcohol I have consumed. This will make visiting 'small bars' highly dangerous. The cooncil should wait for my compensation claim for my injury after falling over after being forced to sit down and drink alcohol.

.....and another thing while I'm on my high horse..... if there has to be as many seats as standing places, who is going to determine what a seat is. I'll concede that a barstool is only to be occupied by one patron at a time - what about wallseating, will it have chalk lines on it to show how much of your chorus & verse you can spread - you could fit 10 skinny students round a nook seat but the same nook only takes big tam and his 3 mates in the afternoon. This could get interesting.....

If we're going to get silly , what happens when you stand up to go get your drink ? Are you suddenly counted as vertical ?

Cutting back on alcohol abuse, that's what everyone should be interested in. It seems there's a knot of people in Britain who cannot do anything without being 'boozed-up'.
Excessive alcohol intake is treated as a joke and something to aspire to.
Pubs have responded by clearing out civilised things like somewhere to sit, adding LOUD music, so people can't talk, that means they drink more - it's not an accident, it's planned.
So we have 'industrialised' drinking, that suits the pub owners, but it's the tax paying public that picks up the tab.
It's civilised to sit down, and drink out of glass, not stand shoulder to shoulder swigging from a bottle. The same people, who object to this, were also against the smoking ban.

#2 Who cares ? Rugby fans only surface about 3 times a year anyway

And what about wheelchairs? If someone rolls in will they be able to navigate all these extra seats that will have been pushed in?

Yet another case of Council interference.

if your suddenly vertical. you'll obviously be right out the door. i'm assuming every pub/club/hotel/ will have to have 'bouncers' (or door technicians. whatever the correct terminology is this weather) maybe they will have to have stop watches... you get 2 minutes to do what you gotta do. park it and look happy. dancing will that be allowed? only in the festival.

stoopid stoopid plan!!

This is a step too far.

I'll for one,will not stand for it...

45 If you want to sit and chat there are planty of pubs that cater for that. If you want to go to a bar that plays music you can also do so. Its called the free market.

The best way to solve alcohol abuse is through education the problem being people learn drinking at an early age and they learn to drink cheap strong alcohol with other young friends in parks or on street corners etc, rather that a more sensible enviroment such as with parents or other sensible adults.

As far as tax goes why do you think Scottish whisky is cheaper abroad than in Scotland. Its because it is highly taxed - do you think that monies is ring fenced to pay for problems caused by alcohol, is it nowt! it goes into general taxation which pays for the army of lazy non productive government workers who think up this rubbish, so the tax payer argument is a nonsense.

It is no more civilised to sit down or to stand, it is more social to stand as you can talk to more people. However as you probably are a nae mates sort you are probably happier sitting on your tod staring into space.

City licensing chiefs say pubs and clubs with little or no seating have a "significant bearing on the likelihood of crime and disorder".

So am I more likely to rob a bank just because I stand to have a pint?! For God's sake Edinburgh Council, get a grip.

To conclude
a) We know there's a problem.
b) We know what pubs / clubs most exhibit it.
c) This law won't help.

A hard line at the licensing board? If you let the nutters in / sell them too much booze? Your pub loses its license. They've already got the powers to do that: they just won't. Too many vested interests from the licensing trade in the council likely as not, who's particular bars won't fall foul of this silly proposal.

What happens when the National Anthem is played? Can everybody stand up at the same time, or is there a rota?

Guess what, smug anti smoking holier than thou cant go without a drink brigade, you're next on the hit list!!

OH not another Brigade.

Quiet now , everybody is in ra boozer, standing up no doubt.

#58
Mario. Shut yer gob

#16
I see your garbage follows you from page to page. Can you tell the rest of us here what planet you have been sent from? Nothing you say ever makes one single iota of sense.

8) Don't bother to go out drinking, your vision is already blinkered if you faill to appreciate the connection.

Such premises already have such restriction on them in terms of permitted numbers under fire regulations, thus keeping a head count should already be happening.
But enforcing such stupid legislation is as in this case will be impossible.
Quite apart from people playing games who may already have a seat, but need to stand to play, do you include people standing at the urinals, people dancing in
clubs, smokers standing outside etc.

Absolutely right to do this, though there's a case for making the rules apply only to bars over a certain capacity. Most of the problem drinking in town is caused by the huge bars that cynically force most punters to stand because they'll down more booze if they have to keep a glass in their hand. It's a well known trick of the trade.

#62
Meanwhile in Narnia....

sorry but this is getting ridiculous!! if a bar is too busy then people have the choice not to go in! some people actually prefer to stand and it's not the first time that I have been in a pub in Edinburgh and could not get a seat. For some this (used) to be a pain - where to put the handbag, jacket and smoke a cigarette!!?? However I have found that since the smoking ban came in I can now easily stand as I keep my jacket on, throw my handbag over my shoulder and hold my drink........problem solved....

#59
Soren B. Have you been standing too long?

Taking the unpopular view here, but I'm glad something is being done about Scotland's drinking culture - even if this is not the main purpose of the proposal. I'm not so familiar with the bars in Edinburgh these days, but I'm sick and tired of seeing people who are both very much under the age limit and already drunk being served. However, as has already been pointed out, the police don't want to have anything to do with it and that needs to change too.

I agree this is likely to hit the small pubs more than the larger chains, but ultimately it will hit them all in some way. None of them are entirely innocent in contributing to the activities late at night and especially after closing time. Having in the past lived a block away from a bar and still had to suffer the noise and abuse, I don't have sympathy for any of them. Very tory views I know, but this man's not for turning!

For those asking why this proposal has been made, the policy is available at http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet/Attachments/Internet... and this rule is discussed in paragraphs 9 (Overprovision [sic]) and 10 (Occupancy Capacity).

#67 - I know how that feels as I have been pregnant twice and have suffered terribly with piles. I can lend you my rubber ring if you think finding a seat will be diffilcult. Please don't worry as there are remedies out there - including gettig so sh*t faced you can't feel them!!

Yet mair control freakery.

Why dont these muthas go the whole hog and bring in prohibition ?
Killjoys of the world unite - Embra cooncil will give ye a job (superannuated of course)

Recently returned from three weeks in Scotland where I marveled at how those small, friendly corner pubs that offer live music can stay afloat at all with the price of alcohol being so low, no tipping, and no hustling the clientele for drinks. From my American perspective, if you start imposing restrictions on these folks, your city landscape will really suffer and older folks wil be relegated to big, swanky places where the young and loud cluster.

#65
Conan the Bore. Have you been drinking far too long?

Don't anyone be surprised, by another 'loony-law'
Let them away with the smoking Law, was only the start of controlling what we do, after-all give them an inch and they will take a mile and mile and mile!
Next we will be only allowed 2small drinks and you will get 'thrown-out' the Pubs, this of-course will monitored by compulsory blood/alcohol tests before you enter a Pub!
Think I am 'joking' No I am NOT, but the Council is 'Laughing' at YOU!

What happened to those 'Spit-and-Sawdust' Days?

I can't be alone in thinking that better enforcement of EXISTING laws (such as bars refusing to serve people who are drunk and incapable) would be far more successful than ridiculous and draconian rules such as the ones the Council are proposing.

Of course that would be far too sensible wouldnt it?