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Stuff the twenty year battle, its just a six hour flight home.
#1 has a point. On the other hand, the reason this may be a '20 year battle' is because insufficient resources and manpower are being applied to the task. This is a task that probably requires at least a half million boots on the ground. Its a matter is priorities. If no one wants to proceed, then bring them all home today and let the Taliban reassert themselves. Then we'll see where that leads. Leaving the Afgans in the lurch? It won't be the first time such a thing has ben done by the former colonial powers around the world.
See other thread;where are our NATO allies?The Germans don't go out at night...?Soldiers..?We are scraping the bottom of the barrel-Sailors in Afghanistan.Me quite drunk grammmer gone.must hold on...the French are ...coming....AArgh
Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.
No country has managed to beat the Afghanis, at any time in history. This will be an ongoing and costly war, and to what end?
Leave them to it and let them fight it out amongst themselves.
Guga - I think is that was to be the outcome - leaving them to kill themselves, only, that would be fine .... not really making a good faith effort to rid the planet of its bad players, but OK, we can maybe settle for that.
The problem was, as may recall, the Taliban became an incubator for the spreading of terror worldwide - the US happening to take the biggest, but not the only, hit.
I think it is not in our long term interests to share the planet with those who are hell-bent on the destruction of out 'western' societies and we should do whatever it takes to defeat and destroy them in that goal, using whatever means and methods may be needed.
The problem is not the Afghans, it's the crazies across the border in Pakistan.
I admit I haven't been following Afghanistan very closely. Perhaps we (the Americans) shouldn't have bothered turning that theatre of war over to NATO. It seems like many of the participants aren't really interested in making war on the enemy. Brigadier Mackay says there is no military solution -- not sure what he means, but he sounds like a defeated man before he's even taken command of the UK forces.
#3 - hi - just so the board can keep the 'Conans' straight, is Conan the Librarian actually Norbert Dentressangle? Just curious.
"the Taliban became an incubator for the spreading of terror worldwide - the US happening to take the biggest, but not the only, hit".
......When will you acknowledge that the US and its support of Israel against the Palestinians and anyone else the Israelis don't like was the main cause of "Terrorism?"
It seems the US is deserving of the "biggest hit".
#8 - you ask; '......When will you acknowledge that the US and its support of Israel against the Palestinians and anyone else the Israelis don't like was the main cause of "Terrorism?"'
As soon as you acknowledge the Islam has been a plague that started in the Arabian Penninsula in the seventh century and has spread like vermin from Indonesia to Western Africa, and had a brief foray into Europe, and as specified in the Koran serves the purpose of causing all of humanity to become Islamic - or else. I don't see the Torah making such a demand. Nor the Christian Bible. Nor whatever the Bhuddists, Hindus, or whomever or whatever else you care to mention.
The fact is that the State of Israel exists and is going to continue to exist - no matter what. And, in the unlikely even that Israel is taken down then I hope it will take as much of the Islamic world down with it when it does - if that day comes.
In your perverted mind I have no doubt that 'the US is deserving of the "biggest hit".'. How convenient for you that came after the US saved you sorry, worthless Oz ass last century. Although, I guess the chances are that you are a younger Oz punk - one who thinks that security is your birthright, while undertaking no action or investment to make it so.
However, you have a large Islamic land-hungry neighbour just across the water to the north that has a population of about a billion and getting larger each day. Some day they will cast an eye to the south and see an almost undefended landscape prime for the picking. It is only a matter of time before the poison of Islamism infects that country too - and soon Oz will be in their sights. Which may suit you just fine?
Let's hear what your attitude to the US and its foreign policy will be then?
Incidently, the US is in supprt of Israel and is not against the Palestinians. Although, I must say, the Palestinians have done nothing in the last 40+ years to make any freinds in
Incidently, #8 - so i understand, is it your position that if, for example, the State of Israel somehow 'disappeared' tomorrow than all Islamic-related terrorism would also disappear? Do tell.
#7 Now why would anyone with a great name like Norbert Dentressangle(another famous Belgian!) want to become 'Conan the Librarian' Conan?
All we need now is Conan the Barbarian and we'll have a full set!!!
#12,
No Afghans attacked the twin towers. Your point actually states that we should invade Saudi Arabia to 'police them on an ongoing basis' and leave Afghanistan as it is.
6 years already. Another 20 on to that. 26 years to catch Osama Bin Laden. That is the point, right?
#8 Using Israel as an excuse just panders to the anti-semitism of militant Islam.
A promise of 20 year battle will just a long and miserable retreat.
Afghanistan is lost to us - get the hell out NOW!
Guga #4
So, do these things work?
http://www.healthyandactive.com/top-selling-penis-pumps.html
"Posters"
Would applying 'Dioxin' to the poppy fields assist in an early withdrawl of US/UK troops et al?
Conan
....You are cursed with a reactive personality that also jumps to conclusions. That is not an admirable trait.
In regard to my comment about the US and Israel, I see that you habitually refer to situations that occured centuries ago and which have no bearing on today's world.
According to your logic, one might refer to the invasion of what is now known as Israel during the crusades as a catalyst as to why those of an Islamic bent still retain a bitterness toward the west.
Your assumption that my criticism of the US because of the uneven support toward Israel compared to the Palestinians is a desire to see Israel destroyed is also that of a reactive personality. I desire no such thing.
Even handed support and not the blatant jingoism as demonstrated by the likes of you and others in the US when Israel behaves in an inhuman way toward Palestinians, could have worked wonders.
It's called diplomacy, a quality in rare supply in US administrations. The rule of the gun is paramount in your neck of the woods and when US half-hearted "diplomacy" fails, which it genearally does, that is an excuse to go in all guns blazing.
Another conclusion to which you have jumped is the assumption that the US "Saved my ass" during WWII. The US may have contributed to saving Australia's ass but certainly not mine.
The US contibuted to the defeat of Hitler in Europe but it was the Russians who did most of the heavy lifting in saving my ass then.
I suggest you try to kerb your reactiveness and don't jump to so many conclusions. After all, jumping to conclusions by the Bush "administration" is what has destroyed Iraq.
#21You can say that about any religion,with the possible exeption of Buddhism,and even then the medieval Japanese manged to turn monks into warriors.
#7Norbert?I would never aspire to such a distinguished moniker.
#20 - a very weak and unsubstantive response, entirely sliding past the issues i raised - and your respons to my #10 - which you ignored as you instead vented ad hominum?
12. Wini
If a minority of inner city gangs cannot be trusted to behave in a responsible way and not go around attacking other people and their property, do we bring in Afghans to police them?
#8..the fact that Osama bin Laden had declared war on the United States..seems to have slipped your mind. In the context of whether we support Israel or not, what difference does it make? If we supported Timbuktoo, it would be the same thing. The US is always going to support Israel ALWAYS..get used to it. We will never abandon her.No terrorist is going to dictate who we support.
# 29
To assist you in your comprehension of the English language, I never stated that the US support for Israel was wrong. What I did state was that the uneven support for Israel was wrong.
You call the Palestinians terrorists, that is a view of someone who has been conditioned, either in their upbringing or by way of inbuilt prejudices.
You seem to be of the mentality that anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint is a terrorist.
You need to get out a little more and appreciate more facts about the world.
What has Osama bin Laden got to do with Israelis bulldozing Palestinians homes on Palestinian lands?
I afraid your thinking is somewhat twisted.
-- No country has managed to beat the Afghanis.
Have you seen South Afghanistan, have you been there? They are tough guys. You could certainly beat them with sufficient supply lines and modern artillery and air strikes which they don't have. Why?
I AM CERTAINLY NOT SUPPORTING THIS WAR.
29. Lynne
How can you say Bin Laden declared war on america, as america is declining to offer its alleged Al-Qaeda prisoners in Cuba the rights afforded under the Geneva convention as america claims 'it is not a war'.
Furthermore, america will only support israel until americans see the true cost - then israel is dumped.
Lastly, while you state "No terrorist is going to dictate who we support", you will find that in the near future america will negotiate with who it currently sees as terrorists, and a compromise will be reached in which both sides will make an agreement with the other and the error in your statement will be apparent.
However, despite your claiming "No terrorist is going to dictate who we support." the following shows america supporting no shortage of terrorists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_state_terrori...
Now if no terrorist dictated america to fund them, does that mean that american chose to fund all that terrorism on their own?
Recently an american court chose to award $2.65 billion damages in an undefended case against Iran for claiming it funded terrorism against america.
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1435682007
So with america creating this interesting precedence against funders of terrorism, and seems to have funded more terrorism than all other nations combined, then with all the damages america clearly owes, can it afford to keep expensive pets like israel?
#32 suck
suck said:
"How can you say Bin Laden declared war on america, as america is declining to offer its alleged Al-Qaeda prisoners in Cuba the rights afforded under the Geneva convention as america claims 'it is not a war'."
Lynne was quite correct. Bin Laden made his intentions clear. What you are doing, and everyone can see it, so if you're feeling very clever, don't, is taking a term out of one context and placing it in another as if it was the same thing.
Since Bin Laden does not represent a State a formal declaration of war is impossible. Everyone knows that. However, that is exactly what is required to the terms of the Geneva convention to apply. Consequently, the prisoners at Gitmo are entitled to nothing.
As far as what "America owes" you must be kidding. The source you cite makes no such claims. What it says is that others, and they are not specific as to who those people are, make those claims.
Nonetheless, you latch on to this nothing burger like it's the last supper and draw conclusions. You hate Americans and Israelis. That's your burden to carry and you're welcome to it. The gratuitous insults, delivered anonymously, like cowards always do it, only illuminates what's going on in your own pathetic little mind.
As to the prisoners in Gitmo, we'll do whatever we want with them. Don't like it? Tough luck, cupcake, we don't care what you like or don't like, impotent loser.
#30 LHT – “What has Osama bin Laden got to do with Israelis bulldozing Palestinians homes on Palestinian lands?”Lynne did not bring up anything as such in her post apart from Osama declaring war on United States. So why twist facts to change subject and put your own words into other people mouth?
LHT, SuckWhen are you going to take out your blinkered of hate at Americans and Israelis to acknowledge your Muslim brothers in Iran and Syria have been giving undue support such as training, supplying munition, bombs and funding insurgency, terrorism in so much as to cause havoc, that this has finally led to escalation of violence in the Middle East region?
Wake up! The States is at war with terrorism and you are coming here to tell us just the opposite!!!! What are you hiding? Do your homework first before littering the Scotsman with your crappy conspiracy theories and hate against the States.
Iranian bombs have been found in use by the terrorists fighting against the American and Alliance troops. Iran is the perpetrator of terrorism. Even your Iranian brothers have been generously feeding and keeping your expensive terrorist pets such as those from Iraq, Afghanistan, including Hizbollah and Hamas. Not only that, they also recruit terrorists from other places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan!
