Scientology is possibly the biggest organised scam on earth. Note the named celebs above. Hardly paupers, are they? But like so many "celebrities" it must be difficult to know what to do with your multi-millions and an otherwise empty life beyond the limelight.

I know one married couple whose lives and personalities were wrecked (lost home, lost assets) - and whose families lives were wrecked - by this pernicious organization. Church? Yeah right.

On the other hand, how many suicide bombers have they put out? Mind you, religions have never appealed to me in any shape or form.

#2. 2dogs in D.C.
Suicide bombers? Flippancy has no place in this argument. The Scientologists do it metaphorically by promising the earth. Religion, cult ... what the hell does it matter? They do what they do to relieve gullible fools of their money and their thought processes.

#3. SuckMcC
Religions ARE cults, in spite of what the media would have you believe.

So, not only a loony organisation, but a criminal one too!!

"...boasts ten million members..."
"claims" would be a better word. Non-$cientologist sources reckon 50,000~100,000. $cientologists count anyone who ever bought a book, took a course, took a personality test, etc. as a current member, including members who have left or even died.
It's not even a cult - it's a scam designed to make money.
More power to the Belgians.

What is it in certain minds that accepts such brainwashing? Is it a forceful message being impressed on a receptive psyche or is it that only the weak, infirm and vulnerable seek anything that offers solace and the more incredible it is, the better they like it.

The wikipedia article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversy

is quite interesting, including the section "Criminal behavior and allegations" which describes Mrs Hubbard's conviction resulting from her role in illegal "church" activities.

I reckon Hubbard dreamed all this garbage up for a laugh, and when people actually started to believe it, decided to turn it into a scam.

When are their spaceships coming to take them all away?

yes all religions except mine will be proved scams,

Warning to Scientology 'handlers' on this thread: Vacate or I'll expose and humiliate you.

I think they all need a psychiatrist! Their cult bans psychiatric care because they are afraid they will find out they are all nuts. By they way all you people out there buying their books--if you throw money my way, I'll write a book full of bull for you too!! And since I'm in a good mood, I'll only charge you half of what they do!

What on earth is a Scientology "handler?"

Am I missing some sort of sexual innuendo here?

"handlers" are culties sent out to participate in forums such as this in such a way that the negative impact (to the cult) of the original article or the comments it provokes is deflected onto somethiong else or to distract the debate. Hard Truth above is one such. He tries to change the debate away from "Is $cientology a criminal organisation?" to "Why are the Belgians attacking free speech?"
It's not about free speech - it's about a criminal organisation flouting the law.

#15:

While you are probably right about 'handler' activities on such forums, I suspect you are wrong about HardMouth. As the saying goes, he is just 'like a frog in a well'.

HardMouth loves the sound of his own voice, never mind that he speaks rubbish.

can't we all just get along?

#18 Conan...Probably not unfortunately!
I agree with the wierdo Handler HardTruth.

This is just a money making scam, not a religion. Hubbard called it a church when he saw some Yank churches making money! That was his only intention. His daft sci fi books fill the whole thing. It is dangerous and destroys folk.
It was banned once before in the UK, time to do that again.

Scientology is very much a scam and indeed If it's not criminal it's unethical. I know whereas I used to be involved with the "church" here in Denver. I was young and very disillusioned with myself and my life. Upon my realizing the scam that was being foisted upon me and after having wasted a great deal of money upon a brilliant fairy tale, I played hell trying to extricate myself and my life from the grasp of these very clever bloodsucking morons. I'm really not very big on psychology either, a lot of mind games there too. I did however enjoy both of the Star Wars trilogys a great deal! Scientology is and was a miserable pit stop wherein there is no truth to be found. L Ron Hubbard was a mastermind whom now weeps from the grave. Too bad.

As soon as you launch a belief system and people buy into it, its game over.

It becomes corrupt, deceitful and exists for monetary gain and power only.

Its probably best to form your own opinion regarding the universe, and then live according to your own philosophy.

Cruise should be in the dock for his acting alone!

Yes, #19, its easy to ban what you don't like - that's true.

Worrying that people can believe this nonsense, still it is up to them if they do nothing illegal.

# 25

Your comments could apply to Catholicism, Judaeism or ant other "religion" you care to mention.

#10. Spot on Guga!

A controversial multi-genre writer, Hubbard also wrote some sci-fi. He was in on the ground floor when it became popular and was freindly with Asimov, Norton and other giants of the genre. Read some of his stuff. It's all very entertaining.
'Battlefield Earth' is a fast paced book with 'everything' in it and is set in Edinburgh from around halfway through the book ... I'd avoid the film (made by Travolta) though ... it was a turkey!

He knew associates of Aleister Crowley and it's because of that I think, that he made up the Church of Scientology to show how easy it was to form your own church ... although Hubbard was always a bit of a con-artist at heart.

Unfortunately though, his own family members saw it as a way of making money and ran with it. They still are.

Scam? Don't be silly .... of course it is!

#27 it is moral and physical cowardice to tar the Islamic suicide bombers TODAY with the tired "all religions are just as bad" brush.

Just in case there are any Scientologists here -CULT, CULTITY CULT CULT.

It is an evil, insidious organisation.

#30 Well said my freind, well said...and here in the states tax exempt, my fat butt! L Ron Hubbard can weep from hell for all I care. CULT, CULTITY CULT CULT!

Religions in all their forms are essentially the same.

Each professes to know something about nothing, and each is surrounded in myth, heresy, blasphemy and lies. Each have the blood of thousands of innocent people on their hands, some (we all know who) more blood than others.

Each offers us stories about events that took place in the bronze age, and they use various books written by mortal men to excercise their indoctrination. Each exists for power, money and control, its always been that way, their consistency in that regard is unbelievable.

Churches sell religion, they market religion and take what they can from the unsuspecting flock.

The churches are like drug dealers, they sell you the hit that you think you cant live without, and fill you with fear, just encase you decided not to pay your dues.

Dianetics changed my life.
Or was it orthodontics?
Heaven knows!
Anybody seen my camel?

#32 If you knew anything about Scientology, then you'd know it's not a religion and that's my point and that's the point of the article. Since you know so much pehaps you could tell us all where to find "TRUTH" Is that to religious for you?

Is the girl with the headscarf who hangs around the Princes Street / Cockburn Street area with the clip board one of these scientologists? Most days she can be seen trying to con locals, but usually young couple tourists, out of a few quid in exchange for a pen or something. Or is she some other brand of loony?

Sometimes I think I should speak to her for a while on the basis that if I have her attention, she is leaving the tourists alone!

GB

#35
I think you fancy her and are just in the process of plucking up the courage to talk to her

#34 Ox Bramley:

So its not a religion. Ok then, lets call it a belief system, thus disguising the word religion in favour of philosophy. The bottom line is this, regardless of the systems category, once it begins attracting a number of people, it will inevitably become corrupt and decitful, thus existing to serve the interests of those who govern it.

Truth is personal, it cannot be shared with others.

I have found my truth, but I have no need to share it with you because its sacred to me. I dont need to share it in an attempt to try and justify it in the eyes of others. Its true to me and its not up for debate.

Religion and other philosophy does not operate like that. Instead they promote their belief systems looking for flock in an attempt to become more powerful and finacially secure.

It's Science Fiction for goodness sake! How anyone can call it a religion is beyond me. Personally I think they have such well known people associated with it is that I think the Scientologists bankroll them and their films.

From day one, dianetics book publication in 1950, Hubbard has promised things that have never never been held. Dianetics is a full pack of unheld promises, and scientology did add a lot to those: having myself gone to OT VII and having sold scientology for years, I affirm it is a fraud, and the number of people havcing left the cult is incredibly high. This number alone would suffice to prove that people realize soon or late that scientology is not holding its lying promises.

Personally I think all religon should be banned it alone has caused more death than any plague or disease.

The whole idea of the church wether it be catholic or protestant is the biggest lie ever perputrated.

These organisations are basically your original conglomerate industry whos only goal is to achieve power over the masses and amass huge wealth.

Scientology is just another wee branch trying to do the same thing and has nothing whatsoever to do with Science.

Ban the lot of them then let us see what free speach brings to the forum.

As for Ron L Hubbard this guy is a total fruit cake and people give this cult millions hahahahahah totaly fools and sheep every one of them.

IF you have a strong belief in something then why does it cost $33,000 to be accepted.

How much money does the vatican bank hold and why dont they want the truth to be known about this guy called Jesus who was by my readings just an ordinary guy who had a few great Ideas about how people should live their lives.

It was the church that turned him into this divine immortal person not the man himself.

As for Musilms well they have their belief the hindhus and bhuddist's theirs.

Im pretty sure that out there somewhere in the universe there are beings more advanced than us, they may be older and their technology is more advanced but it doesnt make them supreme.

Every one has their own belief I beleive we should ban religon.

#37 Ah, I see "Truth is personal, it cannot be shared with others." Then there's no point in responding to you whereas I can't share with you my personal first hand experiences among the deceivers within that "belief system." Perhaps we can agree upon this: Scientologists get out while you still can!

For every one else let's recognize that there is right and wrong and good and evil and somewhere in there if we could all find "the truth" and not just "our truth" then at least we would not be deceived and perhaps we would then have something more in common. To every one who has ever found some truth that you could share and maybe even congregate around, CHEERS! Everyone call it what you will, I'm going to bed! Goodnight!

no.31 linking scientology with human rights is taking things a bit far. The world would be a better place if scientologists stuck to themselves and left other people alone.

41. ppedersen, Los Angeles, CA

I take it you are employed by them?
How much money have you been conned out off?

40. Jay Kay, Burntisland

Personally I think all religon should be banned it alone has caused more death than any plague or disease.

I think you speak through blinkers.
Possibly you lack knowledge of Christianity, and think the 'church' that you know is Christianity. I fear you are misled.

Religion begins where reason ends.

To me it seems pointless viewing Scientology as a religion. Even calling it a 'sect' or a 'cult' seems inaccurate in my opinion, as even these terms have religious overtones.

Surely it's a business? It sells expensive courses to people who think they will improve themselves by buying what Scientology has to sell.

Well done that Belgian prosecutor, he'll end up on the list of famous Belgians...

#42 Ox Bramley:

I respect that, your truth is your truth and thats that.

Scientology to me, is just another form of religious indoctrination in an attempt to gain more power, control and financial gain.

The followers are merley sharing their truth because they cant survive on their own belief structure, partly because they dont have one of their own. So sad

...and whilst some might want to label all religions as businesses, the important distinction for me is that I can attend my local mainstream churches without having to fork out any dosh.

I'm a bit confused,can anyone tell me the difference between Scientology and any other religious delusion ?

The debate about $cientology aside, I have to agree with #8 HardTruth.

Setting up Scientology as something to hate or distrust is just disguising that fact that Governments, particularly European ones, like to tell people what is right and not right to think.

There are plenty of scams in the world, and they all have one thing in common - gullible punters who think they can getting something for nothing.

The "church" of scientology is a vicious, criminal organisation. they need to be Stopped. By all means allow individual scientologists to practice their beliefs, afterall, if they want to believe that they are infested with dead space aliens, that's their problem.

But the organisation is evil and needs to be removed from Europe.

Have to agree in part with #37 Media1, although not some of the wording.

"Truth is personal, it cannot be shared with others." I think "Truth" is universal. Your personal belief system is personal, and may or may not contain truth. There may be certain parts which cannot be proven (or disproven) and belief in those is called Faith.

Your personal belief system can certainly be shared with others, but it has to be a free-will choice whether someone else buys into it or not. That's the problem with Scientology; the accusations that free-will choice is being undermined in vulnerable people, and there is has to be a financial buy-in.

#49.
The trouble with having a belief system entirely devised by yourself is that you are never challenged and you are tempted to adapt it over time to suit your own selfish needs.

Hard truth, this isn't about telling people what to believe. It's about protecting people from fraud, false medical advice from an organisation with no medial knowledge what-so-ever. It's about preventing personal attacks, defamation, libel and harassment on ex-members. And it's about bringing justice to those responsible for those crimes.

I don't see anything in the report saying people can't believe in it. Just that the criminal activities of the organisation won't go unpunished.

I studied Scientology for 30 years and recently left the church last April, mainly because it was not the same organization that it was when I originally joined in 1977. everything changed when Hubbard died in 1986. Now it is trying very hard to look like a legitimate religion, it is actually more like a corporation without conscious and little ethics. It more closelt resembles a born again evangelico church than anything eles. The church members have been taught to have little tolerance with other practices and other religions, as they have had the " one way" attitude drilled into their minds with every thought that, there is NOTHING ELES OUT THERE THAT WORKS. The church is run on statistics, primarily the money recieved is the biggest push and the staff are all running around in circles stressing out on how they will increase their profits. Unfortunately the group has tried really hard to pass itself off as being close to Buddhism, saying that their practices are similar, but the purpose is totally different. ironically scientology is not in favor of meditation but the training routines for the communication course, are similar to meditation. I learned quite well how to be in Present time and actually sit for as long as 10 hours with no thoughts or anything cluttering my mind. This is a standard practice used for when one audits another, actually auditing means one on one, counseling where the auditor asks a question and listens and examines what is said. I have to say that all those years of getting auditing and auditing another, has helped to pave the way for the spiritual path I am currently on. I believe that all the experiences good and bad, are all lessons, and serve a purpose towards our path to enlightenment.
I don't believe that all the technology is corupt or cultish, only the organization is questionable. recently a man called the pilot was found dead in his swiming pool. this man was about to publish a book called "self

#60 - "cruelty to their children in depriving them of life saving drugs"

Really?

I'm aware that they refuse blood transfusions for religious reasons. This had led to many blood-less surgery techniques being developed. With all the problems Scotland has seen due to transfusions with infected blood maybe they had a point.

"But European countries have been criticised by the United States' State Department for labelling Scientology a cult or sect and enacting laws to restrict its operations."

I think the first question the US State Dept needs to ask is how many of these Scientologists are operating in that department?

A Government Body promoting the Scientologists?

It reads like the Da Vinci Code.

Weak willed actors brainwashed to front a recruitment organization that sucks up individuals cash and property for whoever knows what long-term purpose.

Hardly a ringing endorsement - imagine this lot take up a Scientologist Crusade and helping to promote technology as a means to control the masses.

Oh sorry... that's the Westminster Government... any of them Scientologists?

We know a few are in Opus Dei

'Personality test' 'No sir we dont want to sell you anything, an we are not a cult' they get you in the door, and try to force you to buy books after telling you that your personality test was poor and your a bad person..

#55 HV: Nonsense

You take the time to source something that makes sense to you personally, and then you accept it without question, remembering to never dispense it to others as truth.

Its not hard to do! and it does not mean you cannot respect other religions, it just means that you dont preach your belief system to others, not ever.

SCIENTOLOGY ia a sect and must be stopped at all costs!!! TOM CRUISE is weird this we all know......

It's amazing that so many people really don't understand Christianity. That wonderful thing about living in the US is that we are free to worship whatever or whoever we want. As a Christian, all I can do is pray for those who are involved in "cults" as Scientology (a rich man's religion with mind control). I can only share what Christ has done in my life. If other religions or non-believers are right, then we have nothing to loose, but if Christians are right, we all have everything to loose.

Have any of you stopped to pick up a dictionary and look up the word "cult" the word is defined as " 1) a system of religious worship" 2) devoted attachment to a person or principle. Let me ask you all this, how do you classify your every day religion, is it not a "system of religious worship"? or "not devoted to a person or principle"? I see on this site a lot of high horse riders, well I am not Scientologist but i do not go around putting down people religious belief either, if I were a hypocrate I could go on about how Christianity is one of the youngest religions in the world, how the Catholic is one of the most richest churches in the worlds and how they became the most richest, but why? Everybody has a right to their own religious belief. I definately do not support Phychiatry, anyone who supports the belief that electrical shocks to ones body is good medicine is a bit of the wall, or that putting an ice pick up your nose to pull out a "piece of the bad brain" is good for you....... well I will say no more. I believe that all people should have a right to their own religious beliefs.

#32 stated "Truth is personal, it cannot be shared with others. " Is that statement true? If it is then how can they share it on this forum? Truth is NOT personal. It is true for all people for all time. 2+2 = 4 for everyone regardless of if they think it is true or not. In regards to $cientology, it makes a mockery of truth. The fact that a $cientology convert is expected to pay large amounts of money to learn about it 's "special" secrets speaks volumes.
If you want to learn about truth check out one of the gospels in the Bible. In the gospel of John, Jesus Christ claims to be the truth. That audacious claim leaves only 3 valid choices for a person to make: he was either a lunatic; a con man; or a truly the son of God. Before you rush to make a decision on which one of these choices you think is true, keep in mind that hundreds of people saw him after he was resurrected in the first century AD and many of them were put to death for their eye witness testimony to this fact.
Truth can be known. Winston Churchill once said, "From time to time men stumble accross the truth, but most pick themselves up and carry on like nothing ever happened"

#59. Sounds correct. I met the child of someone who had been through scientology at the hq in East Grinstead during the 1960s. They managed to stop smoking as a result of the 'therapy'. However, it cost to go to ?higher levels and there was also that element of potential loss of privacy that #70 talks about. I don't recall any talk of pressure to continue on in the organisation -- at that time. I read Hubbard's books when at school, from the local library, and only picked up on very little, nothing that might have seduced me into signing up. More worrying were my classmates having table turning sceances. And Spiritualism doesn't have that wholesome a reputation either. Perhaps scientology has reached a developmental stage that affects all these belief movements, when the outside world says hey, look at all that money you're taking, and it has to be trimmed and go back to square one again.

They are a bunch of nutters. I'm sorry but anyone that joins them gets all they deserve.

(From the CIC website http://www.cultinformation.org.uk/faq.html#cult )

There are many types of cults. Some are religious cults and others are not; the first term does not rule out the other. Every cult can be defined as a group having all of the following five characteristics:

1 It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members.
2 It forms an elitist totalitarian society.
3 Its founder/leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.
4 It believes 'the end justifies the means' in order to solicit funds and recruit people.
5 Its wealth does not benefit its members or society.

#73 TCBK: When I said truth cannot be shared, I didnt say it cannot be discussed.

Truth IS personal. By that, I mean that my truth surrounding the universe is not something that I must preach to others. I must respect others by believing that they will find their own inner truth without me attempting to indoctrinate them with mine. When I say preach, I mean preaching in the true sense. Thats the problem, people get it in their heads that THEIR belief system, or adopted belief system is the one THAT ALL inhabitants of Earth must bow to. When that happens, you have disrespected others and entered a place in which money will need to transfer from the flock to the preachers. Power then becomes more important than the message, and the message is no longer sacred, how can it be, it was contaminated once it was spread as more than a personal belief.

I hear you, in terms of the Bible. But again, if I accept the bible's message as authentic, I must accept that my chosen god is a murderer of Egyptian babies and a genocidal maniac. I am not suggesting that people did not see a man rising into space.

But again, in 2007 we are almost able to travel at the speed of light. Almost being 200 years from now. When that happens and we arrive on a desolate planet and begin cloning humans in the image of ourselves, will it be unusual for the clones to see people rising up to space? I am NOT suggesting that is my belief, I am merely pointing out the possibilities, which is why it is better to adopt your own belief system, and then refuse to turn it into an organised call for worship.

Scientologists, don't come to Scotland. We'll set about you.

Now any views on Opus Dei and it's place in modern political offices?

"#40

Personally I think all religon should be banned it alone has caused more death than any plague or disease."

Actually, Marxism and its affiliates has caused more deaths than anything else. Why don't we ban that instead?

Or perhaps as HardTruth #8 pointed out, not let governments ban things they don't like. Except perhaps anyone who calls for things to be banned?

41. ppedersen, Los Angeles, CA

"I have seen many Scientologists in Belgium helping others, educating against drugs, personally catching thieves in the streets and working with local Brussels police, supporting human rights and many other forms of help."

I bet you have never been to Belgium, and could not even name the Belgian region with the capital Amsterdam, or the languages spoken there.

75. Mariangela, Boston, Massachusetts, USA

"The IRS conducted an extremely thorough investigation of the Church of Scientology for many, many years in the US, and in 1993 the end result: The Church was granted full religious recognition in the US"

The Belgian investigation was far later, and the downside with american investigations is they tend to find exactly what they are looking for, whether it happened or not.

Here is a good parody of Tom Cruise and scientology...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka5_3HZ8CSo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bim-05PfSLQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9EiKzp9Bh4

Tell you what, that Tom Cruise is the straightest man on the planet. None of that paying escorts to wrestle naked with you that some scurrilous types have mentioned in years gone by. 100% hetero, that's him, yes sirree.

Only the large intergalactic lizards have that answer Mr McCrunchie.

What about Jehovas Witnesses?
They are as loony as Scientologists.

Do you people not realize that the problem is not WHAT Scientologists believe - but rather the Cultish practices of its "Church of scientology".
Firstly unlike any other certifiable "religion", to be active in scientology you actually have to PAY a LOT of money.
Secondly Scientology dissasociates people active in its practices from their families - in nearly all cases if a family member speaks out against the Church of scientology - the church responds by effectively forcing the scientologist to break off all communication with that family member.
These two factors alone shows how drastically different scientology is to Islam or Christianity...
Also the older religions in my opinion came about as a primitive explanation to the wonders of our world (and universe) that had not yet been explained by science.
Believing in the space-opera about Xenu and that we are all inhabited by the souls of ancient space beings (in this day and age - with no scientific evidence) is far more nuts than believing an omnipotent being (god) created the universe.
We can provide archeological evidence to prove that in 600bc a group of people did not "discover" an extraterrestraial information that created (so called - by scientologists) the "lie" of christianity.

If islam and christianity are 5 to 7 on the crazy-scale, Then Scientology is a good healthy 10 out of 10.

#67 (and others) - Media1

I'm sorry you think I'm talking nonsense. But if one does as you say, and accept things without question, don't you become closed-minded?

There are many valid criticisms of the way Churches work. However, I don't accept they're all indulged in some cynical exploitation exercise - some are better than others.

However, any religion that promises enlightenment in exchange for a large sum of money must surely be viewed with suspicion.

If you want to believe that we are all integral with machines or whatever, then be my guest. You are neither more nor less bonkers than the followers of other religions. It is your choice. End of story.

If however you are prepared to pay extortionate sums of money in order to further yourself in your "faith" then either you seriously have several screws loose or you are in a position to capitalize on it by virtue of treating it as a business investment.

I have absolutely no sympathy for those who have lost thousands in pursuit of this "faith". They should keep their wits about them.

The scientologists tried to get me once. They start by telling you how good you are and how intelligent you are, then they introduce you to a book which they invite you to buy in order to channel your thoughts (or something like that). This book is not cheap and they keep on using subtle pursuasion techniques to try to make you buy it.

I sussed this fairly quickly and decided to get my own back. I therefore tried to keep them banging on as long as possible to waste their time. I spoke to about 3 or 4 different people and the whole process took nearly 2 hours!

When I had had enough, I told them exactly what I had been doing (wasting their time) and walked out. You should have seen the look on their faces!

HardTruth,

You raise some very good points…

Presume you live in a country where everyone drives on the “right” hand side of the road … A school opens teaching and convincing pupils to drive on the “left” hand side of the road … Should we change the directional flow of traffic to accommodate the “left” teachings or would you correct or prevent the school from “left” teachings?

Freedom of speech is an absolute must in ALL civilizations BUT there also needs to be limits/rules to abide by? Hence a democracy or 51% dictates to the remaining 49%?
Who or what constitutes religion and or freedom of speech? Majority?

Life certainly complicates right or wrong when situations become murky?

For those who seek the Truth, You must first obtain the knowledge to differentiate?

The Truth shall make you free BUT Truth is not found once and forever … Truth is Eternal and the Quest for Truth must also be Eternal…

Know thyself and be not guided by those who deceive…

My opinion, I think the majority of religions are corrupted by GREED … Hence I represent no religion but have evolved from many…

LOVE – PEACE & HARMONY, how complicated is that?? History answers that…

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THe HardTruth is that Scientology is fallacious and near crazy. That however is not the scary part of this story, which is rather that the Germans, et al, ban people for what they say and even lock them up if tehy don't like what they say.

Calling church doctrine prohibited free speech, such as telling people to drive on the wrong side of the road, does not apply.
This church hasn't advocated any actions that would result in damage to property or physical injury. (lets see those concepts stretched beyond recognition now)
I think the "established" cults are wanting to protect their turf.

91. MaxTN, Tennessee, USA

Hello 'guardian of the faith' - here are some better links too let you see the light

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka5_3HZ8CSo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bim-05PfSLQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9EiKzp9Bh4

How many people has scientology threatened to sue?

How many religions are based on the principle of pyramid selling?

Do you not think you should get out more - and getting out more does not mean to bear weight on non believers.

Do you think the weirdness of scientology will last beyond the copyright on hubbards works?

Furthermore, did ron not state....

"The homes, property, places and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to: suppress Scientology or Scientologists are all beyond any protection of Scientology Ethics, unless absolved by later Ethics or an amnesty ... this Policy Letter extends to suppressive non-Scientology wives and husbands and parents, or other family members or hostile groups or even close friends."

Sci fi comics are just for fun for geeky types - not to base religions on.

thoreau,

I make no implications as to the correctness of the Church of Scientology my reference is to gauging free speech?

""Investigators have spent a decade trying to determine how far Scientology went in recruiting converts after numerous complaints were filed with police by former members claiming they had been the victims of intimidation and extortion.""
----------------------------
I have no dog in this fight. Just an observation.
We're talking about grown ups complaining here.
There is no documentation provided for this statement. I cannot be checked for veracity. It may be true or it may be Mr. Dalton acting to discredit an organization which he dislikes.
At any rate, even if it were true, would it be any worse than taking advantage of a trusting toddler by filling its mind with unproven myths and outright lies that they will carry as truth for the rest of their lives and pass on as truth to their children?

I have read the comments listed and I feel that at issue here is the need for some definitions.

Religion is a belief system that encompasses a way of living with some degree of hope for the future.

Scientology is a belief system that does fit the requirements of being a religion.

This then begs the further question of how religions should be regulated by Government. If the religion is conducting illegal activities that are actually harming people, it must be stopped.

As a believer in Jesus Christ, I do not practice a religion but rather a relationship with my Lord. This should be the real goal of a belief system. It should be based on relationship rather than dogma. It should affect relationship with others and self in a positive and wholesome manner, not causing harm to anyone except in self-defense.

10. Guga II, Rockall

Mayber Scientology could help you with your wee willy problem.

Hey OSA Scientologists,

Your mission here is to lie, distract, spin, and mislead. You wouldn't know the truth if it was right in front of you, which ironically, it is. Do any of you dare step forward to debate with either myself or EdwardWoodward?

#72 Sounds exactly like a Scientologist.
I'm for free speech. Chasing the bad guys and condemnation is not a practical solution. Having spent 10 years in Catholic mind-prison, 5 years as a Jehovah's Witness and 5 years in Scientology (I signed a Billion year contract) I have my own opinion.
1) Keep your own counsel (oddly this is said in Scn. but not followed)
2) Keep open to the truth where ever you find it.
3) Don't join or trust someone that says you can't study/learn/grow from OTHER beliefs.
4) I'm sorry, but Jesus died.
5) Peace and evolution of the human race will come not from imaginary friends and religious mind control, but from each and every one of us taking personal responsibility to live conscious lives. And teaching our children not to control and condemn others, but to be capable of making their own healthy decisions. Religion has been found to be as practical and helpful to life as sun worship when we used to think the sun revolved around the earth.

Good. I am ecstatic that that cult has been shown for the criminal organisation that it truly is.

The greed and shysterism of Scientology is sometimes beyond belief.

And how can it be a "religion" when Hubbard was a snake-oil salesman who latched onto a make-money-quick scheme and has attracted such pitiful and sad characters as Travolta and Cruise.

They may be able to afford the whole kit and kaboodle but other unfortunate persons who are not wealthy have their savings drained and even their homes seized or sold to cover costs for their indoctrination into this pernicious and insidious cult.

Panoramas investigation into scientology, although it could be mistaken for scientology's investigation into Panorama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3pG49lg5AU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnG--NCL4KI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGecZssWc5M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv8IQ0Z_G_U

MrOzark

4) I'm sorry, but Jesus died

So did Hubbard.

I well remember switching on the television one afternoon, several years ago, I believe, too early for the weather forecast on the local news - (the only reason to watch the 'news.')

What did I see but a clip of this advanced and enlightened person jumping up and down on a couch, raving about his girlfriend (or wife?) during an interview.

Yeah, very much like Buddhism.

104. Alec in Chicago

I think you will find the religious character who jumped up and down was from the bible and was called Zebedee.

40 ban the dictionary !

If someone wants to believe in a wee tin god, who are we to ban him from doing so ?

and what does a Scotsman wear up his cult ?

#8 Hardtruth hit it the nail right on the head. The banning of filming because of one of the actors beliefs is scary. What's next? A litmus test on thought, beliefs, etc. Here is what you must think..here is what you must believe...

"Scientology branded a 'criminal organisation' and may face charges"

....Is it true that Ronald Dumsfeld is a scientologist?

109. Dr Rita Pal

The harassment you refer to from scientologists is referred to as 'fair game'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_%28Scientology%29

If you are posting fairly medical jargon to non medical forums, its fairly worthwhile to explain msbp is Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy. Munchausen Syndrome on its own being largely self harm for attention, and by proxy in harming a generally weaker third party they care for.

The most famous sufferer being Beverly Allitt the serial killer.

#110 - They didn't ban filming. The film is being made now in Germany. The German govt just refused the film-makers permission to use certain govt-owned buildings.

Remember the Belgians aren't prosecuting $cientology itself, just the Belgian offices and certain individuals working there because of suspected crimes (i.e. there are victims, people getting hurt in some way - it's not like the Belgian prosecutor just woke up one morning and decided to persecute a religious minority and pulled the $cienos' name out of a hat).

Read more at www.xenu.net and www.lermanet.com

Norbert, you'll be delighted to know you already have $cieno culties in Scotland. Go picket.

You people complaining of people being told what to think: were you aware that $cientology persuades members to install its own software for creating web pages on their computers and that this software contains hidden programs to block access to certain sites (such as the two above) that are critical of the cult?

Whats with all of those "removed" comments? Did someone speak a forbidden truth?
Who removed them? Do you have a resident "truth inspector"?

115. HardTruth / 1:10am 6 Sep 2007

Bravo Hard truth. (applause...more applause)

WolfyRik #58. Back to your Beano's Book of Law! The HardTruth is that defamation, most fraud, personal attack, and libel (if you are English) are civil delicts. You can, if you have sufficient evidence, bring an action against whomsoever you wish. My point is that for the State to raise these to criminal offences is for the State to take the place of the indiviual and think for them, prosecute instead of them and ultimately convict as they choose. If you wish to live in such a distopian totalitarian nightmare then there are several around from which you might select. There are, however those who are prepared to accept that the price for freedom is that as individual we accept responsibility and have a "right" to be offended.

114. thoreau, USA

At least two of mine went.

One was...

"Did you hear the one about some religion based on some guy who was meant to be the son of some virgin or something, then he died and came back to life again or something like that, so they claimed.

Its amazing how people fall for these cults/sects/religious things!!!"

...and another was...

"If it has relatively few followers it's called a cult, but with millions its a religion"

Why, I see nothing here that is so perverse that it must be kept hidden away from human eyes.

Heres another thats taboo, hope I don't get banned for exposing it.

"No. 10119 Rifleman Tullbahadur Pun, 6th Gurkha Rifles, Indian Army.

This is completely off topic but is about a military matter of exceedingly great concern to those who serve, or have served the Queen.

A 90 year old Nepalese Gurkha, who won the Victoria Cross in WWII storming a Japanese machine gun post in Burma has been denied entry to, and medical care in, Britain "because he has no links to Britain".

This man was presented with his medal in about 1953 and used to have tea with the Queen Mother.

I'd appreciate it if this story could be posted. There are other measures being taken to get this horrific decision reversed. This man should be a Chelsea Pensioner.

I've served with Gurkhas in hot and rainy places and there are no finer men, as I'm sure you know.

119 Well, "Chuck"

Going around from article to article and trolling Djookers, then calling him a troll. How puerile.

Why don't you use your own name? or at least a creative pseudonym?

For all the wannabe "theologians"/bigots, get over it, Scientology is a RELIGION. Read what actual responsible academics and religious leaders have said about the religion.

This makes for a good start:

http://www.bonafidescientology.org/Append/05/index.htm

Yeah, Hubbard died. And no one has heard a peep from him since. If its a bonafide religion, then so is demon worship. Scientology and the worship of satan together would both be bonafide.

"is seeking to expand in Europe"

It would be alot safer to have scientology expand compared to having islam expand!

#123 You haven't got a clue how dangerous these people are. Last I heard, the Koran did not set down in writing (and put into practice) a policy of infiltrating govt agencies in order to subvert the political and judicial process. Read up on "Operation Snow White". It happened in your very own US of A.

As for #121, 'In 1962 Hubbard made clear again his motivation for seeking the religion label: "Scientology 1970 is being planned on a religious organization basis throughout the world. This will not upset in any way the usual activities of any organization. It is entirely a matter for accountants and solicitors" (Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, HCOPL, 29 October 1962).'
More here: http://web.uni-marburg.de/religionswissenschaft/journal/m...

I think we've spotted the OSA handlers of this forum.

I notice you conveniantly forgot to mention the part where I said that among the crimes of scientology are fraud and harassment. Are you demanding the right to be scammed for thousands of pounds? The right to be followed, stalked, attacked and have people make up lies about you, spreading those lies at your work, home and anywhere you're known to go?

I already said that people are and should be allowed free-speech and the right to religion. The CoS however denies thatright to it's members and would deny it to everyone else. That is totalitarian.

You also forgot to address the fact that I pointed out that the problem is not the religion, orwhat they say, but the crimes they commit.

www.lermanet.com www.xenutv.com www.xenu.net

Check out these pages, they will show you exactly why Belgium is doing what they must.

As you can see anything I write on the issue of scientology even if I have the evidence is removed from every media forum.

For more information do visit our website
www.nhsexposedblog.blogspot.com and we shall be featuring our experience of the Scientology issue on www.nhsexposed.com

Many thanks for the links - its useful for me to understand what is happening.

Dr Rita Pal
www.nhsexposed.com
www.nhsexposedblog.blogspot.com

109. Dr Rita Pal Comment Removed

Does anyone have a copy of comment 109 as I wish to repost it elsewhere.

Thanks

Rita Pal
www.nhsexposed.com
www.nhsexposedblog.blogspot.com

120. Alec in Chicago

Why are you defending a left wing troll? You must be one as well.

123. American, USA

You are posting in a UK forum. In the UK Islam is a religion - scientology is not.

Additionally many americans tend to interpret Islam as being a religion associated with terror, while third parties see it as people uniting under a religion to act against american foreign policy.

Only 20% of the worlds moslems live in the middle east, yet through arming them to fight each other, invading their countries, and starting wars based on lies is not likely to result in their being happy about this.

Seeing atrocities against people with a common belief, is hardly likely to make them yankophiles, and while terror can never be advocated by normal people, once enough atrocities have been committed upon those you can relate to - then hijacking planes to fly into tall buildings seems like retaliation.

The idea of hijacking planes for political ends is not new though, is it?

Was the USA not the first nation to consider doing this then blame a third party...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

So with a change in american foreign policy, you could see Islam as far less a threat than scientology.

I cannot help wondering now if 11/9 could have been a descendant of Northwoods, and the Northwoods 'drone' seems to fit in extremely well with the claimed attack on the pentagon.

121. Reality, USA

You are posting in the UK where scientology is not a religion.

Furthermore, in seeking credence you are unlikely to get it by posting links from your own organisation.

To help you understand, its like posting sites featuring naked children claiming their written content makes paedophilia acceptable.

# 85

"What about Jehovas Witnesses?
They are as loony as Scientologists".

.....Pseudo religions or what are recognised as real religions are all populated by loonies.

Christians, Jews, Moslems, all kill innocent people and claim "collateral" damage.

Religion, you can have it.

129

Djookers posts real comments. The mere fact that you don't like them does not make him a troll - unlike those people who appear only to attack individuals, but never have anything of substance to add to a thread.

#72 I don't have any problems with their beliefs. They are no more ludicrus than any other religions. I do have a problem with the actions of the organization.

105 Suck

Zebedee? The Magic Roundabout?

That's barely known here in the US, at least among the people I know. (A reference was made to that character and program in another BBC program shown here; nobody I asked could identify the character or the show without an internet search.)

Some programs we get, but many we don't. Then there are those of us who get fewer than others, as we don't have cable or satellite television, which is where you'll find the channel "BBC America."

I read one of the comments stating USA is the reason for Isalmic terrorism ,not the teaching of islam.To find out out the truth Pl read Koran.Islam is not a religion it is a cult & an organisation with a geographical agenda that is to rule the world & bring people to submit to its way of thinking by FORCE.Let us be aware of these truths.

Only Cults try to harm or harass those who tries to leave.In islam you are not supposed to ask questions only obedience to Mohammed. Islam a Relgion ???

134 Niadh

Indeed.

Although there definitely were some psychiatrists who supported Nazism and took advantage of some of its programs/policies to carry out unscrupulous activities, Nazism itself was not begun by psychiatrists. I suspect you'd find a lower percentage of German psychiatrists than Swiss bankers supported the Nazis.

As to your main point: some people neglect to distingush between crimes committed by someone who is an atheist and someone who commits an act in the name of atheism. Despite what religious adherents claim, "crimes in the name of atheism" would not include those actions meant to defend or expand a political system that includes atheism.

For instance, if an idividual who happens to be an adherent of religion X commits a crime, that does not automatically mean that he committed it in the name of his religion.

So, too, for atheists. Just because a crime was committed by someone who happens to be an atheist, that does not necessarily mean that it was committed in the name of atheism.

Defenders of religion often conflate the two concepts, I suppose because it's difficult, if not impossible, to find crimes committed in the name of atheism.

136. Alec in Chicago

It was felt that the US is not yet ready for Magic Roundaboutism although there are plans in future years for the high priests and priestesses Florence, Paul, Basil and Rosalie to visit and bring enlightenment to your nation. It is very expensive to see the true meaning of Magic Roundaboutism, so I suggest you start saving now. Or alternately you could just buy the DVD.

137. letusreason, Canada

All religions seem to be rather proficient at wiping out others, however it does not really tend to happen without major provocation, or government backing on at least one side.

Most books pertaining to religion tend to be written so long ago that the value of life was far lower than today, and have no shortage of reference that are or can be taken to directing harm at non believers.

This even applies as recently as scientology...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_%28Scientology%29

American foreign policy has committed many atrocities around the world, and is a major sponsor of terrorism. If many people with a common factor can use that as a way of addressing these attrocities then they will. Had Islam not been practiced in the middle east - the grouping would have fallen under another banner to address the actions of americans.

I think we've spotted the OSA handlers of this forum.
-------
Whats a OSA handler? and what does OSA stand for??

Scientology "Office of Special Affairs"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Affairs

Those who maintain PR and, police and punish those with views damaging to scientology.

Formerly known as the "Guardians Office".

Oh! I see, thanks. so OSA is the ADL of scientology?

Scientology "Office of Special Affairs"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Affairs

Those who maintain PR and, police and punish those with views damaging to scientology.

Formerly known as the "Guardians Office".

139.Mcrunchie
My point was committing atrocities in the name of religion. Now even the Hindus in india are doing the same.
They have no problem to propogate thier pagan religion in the western world but you cannot preach peace in their country.

What I am saying is Man has every right to choose what ever faith he wants to believe but never to be controlled or forced upon another.

The eugenicists' are still plying their ghoulish trade.
My baby will be taken from me the moment it's born

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html...

Speaking of Americans (I am one) and religions and Marxism, the problems mentioned here have one thing in common: Individuals giving up their reasoning ability to someone/something else. Whether you do it for Jesus, LRH, or George Bush or Hitler, the results are never good. When I truly understood war at the age of 8 or so, I asked my father where the nearest border was. I knew I would leave rather than attack another country in the name of 'The American Way'. I'll fight, I'll argue, I'll sign contracts, but not because of a cult or government tells me to, only because I have thought it through and will take full responsibility for researching the facts involved. Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses and the US Gov. (including most gov's) will prevent individuals from researching. They use imaginary beings and national security lies to deceive the believers. Think for yourself. Teach your children to do so. A world without religions, governments and the zombies that give them so much power.... what a dream. If that world scares you or you don't like it, too bad. It's coming.

143. letusreason

The ones who have killed or instigated most deaths in the middle east currently are christian.

Personally I could not susbscrible to either chirstianity, islam, or hinhuism.

Obviously the only true path for enlightenment is Magic Roundaboutism, and I am currently training under the all seeing Mr MacHenry.

..ah yes, one of the last reasons why I still love Europe :)

145. MrOzark, China / 6:18pm 6 Sep 2007 sez:

My sentiiments exactly MrOzark. Well that makes two of us. Were off to a good start.
-----

Individuals giving up their reasoning ability to someone/something else. Whether you do it for Jesus, LRH, or George Bush or Hitler, the results are never good.

Think for yourself. Teach your children to do so. A world without religions, governments and the zombies that give them so much power.... what a dream. If that world scares you or you don't like it, too bad. Its coming.

#143 "My point was committing atrocities in the name of religion."

Your point, mate, in #137 was Islam-bashing.

McCrunchie, MacHenryism smacks of totalitarian dilettantism. With funny accents. Dylan for President!

And remember, the Begians are going after the local organisation only. This is about crimes committed in Belgium, not whether or not LRH's writings class as religious doctrine or semi-plagiarised lunatic ramblings.
Seeing as the subject of eliminating undesirable elements in society was brought up, you might be interested to know that, according to Hubbard, a certain percentage (anyone got the quote?) of society would have to be eliminated once $cientology got its hands on the reins of power.