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"With spectacular disregard for the rules of economics..."That could have been written all over my last economics exam. Perhaps I have a chance for a career in Zimbabwe; oh, Dr. Mugabe...
Is 'Dr. Mugabe' still doctor Mugabe - or is he now just the criminal he always was?
bran flakes, disposable nappies?
"With spectacular disregard for the rules of economics.."
Since when have leaders who are socialists obeyed the rules of economics?
1) Kill your private sector2) Cause poverty3) Blame the USA4) Blame England's colonial rule5) Don't take responsibility for the state of your economy.
Simple.
Gosh, the hyper-inflation of currency begins to echo of olde pre-Nazi Germany Deutsches marks. Imagine lugging around suitcases of worthless money . . . You could blame all the multi-nationals for keeping countries like Zimbabwe unstable - or just poor mis-management by Mugabe and co.
Mr Mugabe should go to the USA for lessons on how to run up enormous debt, devalue your currency, and remain a world reserve currency.
Why did they mention disposable nappies most places I have been only use a re-usable shovel.
$300 000 for a litre of petrol?At the black market exchange rate of 75p per dollar, that comes to...let's see....£1.12.Know anywhere else that petrol costs as much?
Zimbabwe will be a depopulated, deserted country soon if Mugabe is allowed to continue. Why have his own people not seen yet that the man is clearly insane? For the sake of the people, I hope someone close to him will do their country a huge favour and do the only decent thing!
This is one of the very tragic stories in Africa, but there are many more. What happened to all the people who supported the government change in South Africa now? They did a good job of that but all of a sudden Africa must sort out their own problem. Could it be that there is not enough money for the west to be made out of Zimbabwe if they do something about a regime change?These poor people are suffering and the land grabbing was the start of it. Just wonder when that will start in other African countries.
W Smith - Your point is good except you weaken it by stipulating "socialist". Look around - nearly every country in the world has money inflating many times more quickly than economic growth, and "socialist" countries are far from the worst offenders.
It's tough to find a "leader" these days that isn't.
"Mr Mugabe is losing the inflation battle. "
Mugabe is the cause of inflation, not the solution.
#3 has it spot on.
#9 Mugabe is indeed a socialist. Socialism is the nemesis of sound economics.
11 Jethro's flute.
You said in response ." Socialism is the nemesis of sound economics."
Can you elaborate on this ? Interesting comment and i'd like to hear more .. to understand, as to be honest, I am not sure I do !
ta . S
There is just that much that people will tolerate before their fear of the guns and hoodlums employed by Mugabe to keep down the empoverished people. One day, they will rise and shoot him in the street like a dog, just like the people of Romania did to the Ceasusescu's back in1989
Strange how a man with such a socialist economic stance is 100% fascist otherwise!!
the white man is to blame one way or the other!he turned it into a success story and then gave it back to Mugabe who clearly is`nt fit to rule,the" jewel "of Africa that fed millions reduced to a begger state by a lunitic and to the utter shame of black Africa who now do not wish to become involved in the internal affairs of Zimbabwe yet were only to happy to gang bang Rhodesia at every opportunity African leaders have shown fairness, rule of law and good goverment is not a requirement, they know all they have to do is point a finger and shout racism and the PC brigade/do gooder`s in the west will fall into line."for evil to succed all it requires is good men to nothing"Congratulations to all a job well done!
Why all the surprise, from a continent inhabitated by tribal people who slaughter each other in the name of Allah or for shiny round beads,
GC
#3 - (4) It was the UNITED KINGDOM'S colonial rule - not England's. The two terms are not interchangeable.
#15 - What was all that about? A bit of punctuation would perhaps clarify your racist rant. Is it your position that only white men presided over life in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, and that Africans were somehow too indolent to take part?
Does this idleness then exonerate them or is their non-participation not partly to blame? Please explain.
#12 Simple. Socialism has been refuted in theory, many times, and failed, in practice, many times.
The results are described in this article.
I don't blame Muagbe (he's just a thick savage) I blame all the white do gooders who in the 70's made Ian Smith a pariah.
17. FLUB, Cowdenbeath
If you dont now the facts by now, "punctuation" its going to help.
#16 What an ignorant and quite frankly racist comment.
Respectfully,
Hezza.
19. Truth Finder. You are quite correct. Also the colonial leaders that set the example of how to be a westerner through shear dishonesty are to blame for a lot of these despots including the likes of Amin. Sadly Scots are equally as guilty as the English. maybe even worse.16. GalacticCannibal, Murrieta CA, you really are no too bright. where does abaqira worship Allah?????? Zimbabwe consist of Matabele and Shona people.Im sorry, I forgot.Your'e a yank, you guys dont know where Africa is.
#16 You are an oaf.
There was a discussion on the World Service the other day about this and the following joke was e-mailed in from Harare:
Q: What did Zimbabweans use to light their houses before candles?A: Electricity.
#12 . Nope , that didnt help much ...
So what is the alternative ? What would you suggest is the solution to these ills ?
I am not baiting you or being facetious, I am seriously perplexed as to what the the solution may be. Is socialism the wrong thing for the people or the wrong thing for those economists?
Is the ecomomy in such a dire mess due to failed socialism or corrupt and ignorant "leadership" ?
What do you think would fix it ?
rgdsS
sorry, that should have been #18 .
22. Maurice, Fife
16. GalacticCannibal, Murrieta CA
There are two tribes in Zimbabwe Shona and Matabele as you say Maurice.
GalacticCanniba
Zimbabwe is predominately Catholic, there are other denominations as well, very little of the Muslim faith, also there is a local african religion.
.
Calm down. Clearly our chum GC#16 talks through the non-oral hole and his opinions can be dismissed unread. See his other posts if you need proof.(touch of AM2 syndrome lol)
If Mugabe has any sense of history he will know what happens to economies in this situation and will know what the outcome will be.
Lets hope his people survive to talk of it.
4 million Zimbabwean refugees in SA, the highest crime rate, rape rate and HIV/Aids rate, yet Pretoria does nothing. Mbeki is a complete and utter bufoon. Quiet diplomacy will not work and Mr Mbeki should know that. Mbeki is a typical African leader who cannot understand the effects that refugees, crime and violence has on an economy. South Africa due to its incompetent governance could well be a Zimbabwe in the coming 10 years.
28. Conan,
Edinburgh has stripped him of his degree.
Oder - you're not making sense, "..punctuation its going to help"? What does that mean? Your sentence construction is really quite appalling.
Do you just feel that directing anger at a particular racial minority to accord with the received wisdom of liberal brainwashers is a sensible and considered contribution to an argument?
And where do you get this idea that Zim is predominantly (not predominately) Catholic?
"24. Scars, Hamilton / 10:39am 1 Aug 2007 #12 . Nope , that didnt help much ...
rgdsS"
Socialism is just wrong full stop.
A balanced budget and laissez-faire would return prosperity to Zimbabwe.
Marxist-Leninism has brought it to it's deathbed.
Mugabe is but one person and a tottering old man at that. He is the godfather of the Zimbabwe mafia, i.e. government. The situation he has created is the ultimate expression of the Government Class doing what it does best unfettered by the annoying buzz of outside opinion or domestic protest. Be assured difference between the Zimbabwe Government Class and that found in any other country (including Britain) is one of degree and not of type. All politicos and soulless bearcats who seek to wring their pay from honest men and women (be they naffies or bankers) are all cut from the same cloth.
The only thing that can save Zimbabwe is a white government and white systems. But I cant see that happening anytime soon.
If Zimbabwe can get rid of Mugabe. Hold democratic elections in which all parties can enter, find a leader and a constitution and then offer the farm lands to white farmers, that will solve the food shortage in almost no time. Zambia offered land to all the ex white Zim farmers and now they are thriving. But even Zambia could explode one day. Stability has been brought about through some good governance and foresight, but with that comes more wealth, which opposition parties want a piece of. Usually thats when the coups begin, then the country enters a period of uncertainty, then there is war, then there the government is overthrown, then the nation gets poor again, and so the cycle continues.
Its the way it is.
30. Media 1, cape town You make me want to sob. Why, because you speak the truth and I am scared I may never again see my homeland as i remember it ever again. (And I lived in the Transkei so you know what i mean - I hope)26. oder, the main "religion" or spiritual practise amongst the nGuni people, (including Matabele, Shona, Xhosa, Zulu, Sotho, Venda, Tswana people to name a few) is amaQira. More of a way of life than religion, and differs from region to region because it was always dictated to by a Qira. (dont try pronounce it as it is spelt, it is hard for the western tongue) qira is the equivalent of a shaman or to use a very bad description, witchdoctor. Catholasism is not too prevalent, more so is African Zionist Christian Movement.
32. FLUB, Cowdenbeath, you may want to go through my grammer and spelling there. ;-}
33. Jethro's flute, Unfortunately one of the solutions could be what I preach against on these forums constantly. That is: south Africa to start an all out invasion of the region and to include Zimbabwe in its administrative and economic control. I'm sure there will not be too much resistance and it may even be like the French or Polish or others welcoming the allied forces in WW2. Then to put Mug-ape under arrest and try him for crimes against humanity along with his phycophants.
#15 more of less said it all friend!.....Why cant the surrounding African Countries,help out,mabye they dont care,so much,but the West is supposed 2!! It beggers belief,the conditions the people live in,should I say exist in...poor buggers!
#39 cool: Surrounding nations are not in a position to help, except South Africa that is.
All the other nations have very serious problems of their own. They are all poor and hungry, they are all without 24 hour electricity and telephone access. All of them are incapable of assisting. The only one that can help is South Africa and they wont.
Mbeki remembers that Mugabe helped the ANC during the apartheid years. Therefore, the African response is to honour that past help, regardless of the loss of life, regardless that 4 million refugees are in SA turning to crime and murdering people. Mbeki is the most powerful man in Africa, but he is also one of the least intelligent leaders. Thats not to say he is stupid, obviously he isnt. But he is an irresponsible leader with no inclination of the negative effects that his support for Mugabe has on his own nation, either that or he doesnt care. Both are loser characteristics and both are dangerous.
You need to live Africa to understand Africa, she is an exasperating continent.
32. FLUB, Cowdenbeathyou said
#15 - What was all that about? A bit of punctuation would perhaps clarify your racist rant. Is it your position that only white men presided over life
Racist rant? I stated nothing racist ,I stated fact.Do you know anything about Southern Africa?I`ve spend thirty years of my life there.
50% of the population are of christian faith the rest follow other faiths and other local religions the highest number in the christians belong to th Roman Catholic faith, hence predominately Catholic, clear?check it if you dont believe me.
you said
Do you just feel that directing anger at a particular racial minority
you flipped your lid? I`ve directed my anger as you call it at black Africa, who by the way are the majority not the minority. my remarks aimed at the whites is a take off from the Africans/PC brigade and people like you who jump on the bandwagon and shout racist and blame the white man at the first opportunity given.I suggest you read the post again.
PS leave the Psycho analyis out. ok!
A bit of punctuation would perhaps clarify your racist rant.
I said
If you dont now the facts by now, "punctuation" its going to help. If you had already decided that it was a racist rant,that indicates that you "understood" what was said.also you would`nt need me to explain, as you asked in the last part of your post
Is it your position that only white men presided over life in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, and that Africans were somehow too indolent to take part?
Does this idleness then exonerate them or is their non-participation not partly to blame? Please explai
41. CarrotTop, Dumfries. as far as the 1st world is concerned, no oil, no help. Do not expect Britain to help. And as in the middle East, they wont be that welcome anyway.
#41 carrottop: Why should Britain step in?
And how can Britain be held accountable for the actions of a crazed bufoon like Mugabe?
Africa needs to sort their own nonsense out, Europe has done more than enough for them over the years, as has every other continent. Its time Africa stood on her own two feet.
Once she is forced to stand on her own two feet she will fly and never look back. But she needs to learn how to stand on her own two feet!
36. Maurice, Fife
Thanks for that, not to tuned up on the African religions.In Zimbabwe the highest number of Christain belong to the RC even Mugabe was raised a Catholic, altho`not something they would want to shout about.
Flub
predominantly not predominately apologies!
Lets take it back again. Surely even colonial rule was better than the existence the Zimbabweans have now. All that fighting just for the privilage of starving to death ............. only in Africa!!!
Does anyone remember a happy post independance Zimbawe under the rule of Joshua Nkomo, nDabalinge Sitole then the right Reverend Banana? They werent too bad. Mgabe then waged war against them and through force of numbers of the Shona people semi-democratically came to power with Zanu PF. Sitole I think was killed, Nkomo exiled or killed and Banana thrown in jail for shagging males (if a bad memory serves me correctly)which as a male is highly illegal there. (maybe not a bad thing. Appologies to all offended by my uncontrollable homophobia - i too am African) Zimbabwe was always destined for failure the moment Mugabe got into power. Interesting to note that his involvement in the war was close to zero.
Long gone the days when cigs were 2 shillings and sixpence for FIFTY!! What a dreadful fate for Zims poor millions-stuck with a madman in charge- and I use this word literally. What strange malady must aflict this bright articulate lunatic-what would make some one want to cling on amid such devastation after nearly thirty years in power?
Hi Maurice-the main man in the Zim-Rhodesia govt just prior to Mugabe was Abel Muzorewa. He arrived at the(then) Salisbury Airport to a huge crowd-several hundred thousand,as the liberating hero. Unfortunately less than a year later, he was heavily defeated at the polls by ZANU pf. Muzorewa paid heavily for his high profile contacts with the then SA govt, who gave him much in the way of cash and resources(choppers and helium baloons!) for his campaign. A good(incidentally Shona) friend of mine explains that the Shona people admire power and have a reverence for authority. Maybe that xplains their capacity for long suffering.
51. Geoff, South Africa Thanks Bru! Im maybe getting a bit old and memories fading. I supose I could have looked it up but as it goes, i didnt. What i wouldnt give for a box of Madison though.The admiration for power stinks of S Africa too with the politicians regarded as almost untouchable. the Daily Dispatch reports on the crisis at Frere Hospital materinty is a good example of how these people refuse to accept the truth in case it may offend those in power. It would be great if Tokyo Sexwale or even better Cyril Ramaposa decide to join the race for president. God help SA if Zuma gets in. Im sure him and Bob will get on fine though.
42. oder, Scotland
Dude ,are you an abandoned American living in wet soggy bonnie Scotland
"Have a nice day" in the rain ...indeed
49. Maurice, Fife
I remember my trips to Zimbabwe/Rhodesia priorto independence well, the Africans were the most friendly and gentle of people. As you say Mugabe has done nothing but brought calamity and ruin on this great country and great people.
Oh Yeh!! freindly and gentle
Try Rwanda and their machettes.
Gc
53. GalacticCannibal, Murrieta CA Welcome to California
No! I`am a scot, spent most of my life in Southern Africa we have California here in the borders, cattle country I believe.With all this gobal warming going on the weather is actully getting better. (I think)have a nice day!
sorry should read "actually"
Surely we have the SAS and tomohawk missiles for some reason?Mugabe is an inhuman monster who has commited so many 'war crimes' as to be commited to The Hague like Milosovic without delay.Or, sadly, take him out, with a surgical strike, and get the freedom party in place, get the IMF to supervise a new currency and sort this mess out.Zimbabwe could be a great country again, but only when the country is free of this man.Dont forget, when his people were starving, his wife chartered Concorde to go shopping in Paris.I am against murder, and assination. But surely, there is a case here of someone needing to act, as the UN seem to have lost the balls to act in the interests, both short term, and long term, to help the starving millions, and indirectly help the surrounding countries who cannot cope with the 35,000 refugees each week who manage to leave the country with nothing but the clothes they stand up in.
Had a holiday in Zimbabwe in the mid 80s. Everywhere we went we found the local people friendly and helpful. Stayed with friends in Bulawayoand they explained that even then Mugabe was having hundreds of his opponents killed.We heard rumours of a unit called the 6th Brigade, don't know how true they were.It's a beautiful country and it's sad to see how it has all gone so wrong.
On another topic, is it possible to have that lunatic GC banned. His posts show he is mentally disturbed and should have no access to a computer, he be forced to take his medication or kept permanently in his padded cell.
59. The Wizard, OZ /
You wrote
"On another topic, is it possible to have that lunatic GC banned. His posts show he is mentally disturbed and should have no access to a computer, he be forced to take his medication or kept permanently in his padded cell."
Hey Dude,
Did you have a bad dream , The possibility of the SNP getting shut down by G Brown.
Happy Kangaroo day
Zimbabwe's never going to be wealthy. The average IQ of the population is in the mid 60s. This helps explain how a tyrant like Mugabe can take and hold power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations
I hate to say it because its racist. Since the european powers gave africa back to the natives, its been nothing but a disaster. Perhaps its really time for the west to go back in and save the people from their incompetent and corrupt rulers. It really is a shame that virtually a whole continent is mired in poverty.
55. GalacticCannibal, Machettes dont kill as many as m16s or bunker bombs or jet fighters or in fact just about any standard US issued equipment. So I suggest you give a bit of thought to your posts or just shut the +£"&% up. You just seem to be spouting a load of drivvel and destroying sensible conversation amongst grown ups
