It looks like the UK MOD are as usless as the US Pentagon are, at planning and executing an illegal war.

Tax payers money down a bottomless well, and young soldiers getting killed for what ?

Respectfully

Galactic cannibal

In this day and age,the least one would expect when
going to war,is a reliable backup, when, and if you are
unlucky enough to be wounded.
It is unbelievable that our soldiers are left with so little
cover.
War injuries are so often quite horrendous,loss of limbs ,severe burns,etc. It's all very well transporting them out to hospitals elsewhere,but the importance of immediate help is essential.
These poor Drs and Surgeons need the "time out" after
they have had to operate.
Can you imagine how you would feel in the NHS Hospitals if the Dr or Surgeon treating you had been working 48hrs non stop ?
They cannot possibly give of their best.
What's wrong with the MOD. our soldiers don't have
sufficient arms,we know about the lack of basic body armour originally in short supply--------If money is needed anywhere,it should be given,firstly to arm our boys correctly,and give them the confidence of the families having a decent wage when they are away fighting. Surely the medics should get moree pay if the are in a war situation?
Perhaps if the pay was better you might attract not just more soldiers, but Medics as well.

What between shoddy and insufficient equipment, shoddy accommodation, and now insufficient medical assistance, the treatment of our troops is a national disgrace.

Bliar promised the troops everything they needed, and Broon, as his off-sider was supposedly financing these needs. Broon is now the man responsible, and appears to have no intention of keeping that promise.

Ignoring the fact that the Iraqi war is illegal, the point remains that our troops have been sent overseas to fight, by a government that is not doing its bit to support them. The New Labour numpties, and Gordon Broon, are an utter disgrace, and should be held in contempt by the people.

The troops should be brought home immediately, and Broon should resign.

#2--withit---""if money is needed anywhere, it should be given, firstly to arm our boys correctly,""

i agree, & is the single most important spending of tax monies while the troops are at war....this, i fear, will not happen there, if the public isn't behind it...
the US citizens demand that our Congress fund the troops in every way, regardless of support or not of the war....we also in the individual cities, towns across the country, see to it that their families are cared for...that's a good thing:)
there are times when things go awry, then we scream & holler until it gets done...our voices do make a difference...big difference..

#3--Guga II---""Blair promised the troops everything they needed,""....were the people holding him to that promise all the years he was PM?

""and Broon, as his off-sider was supposedly financing these needs"".....were the people holding him to this?

i'm not wanting to be rude...i just don't know how the UK citizens have or have not acted on this...

4. sandy, USA land of the free, home of the brave
you wrote
...our voices do make a difference...big difference..
I think your head is buried in the proverbial sand box sandy dude,

In 2000 in the USA, The voices of the people were ignored . And the idiot Bush was handed the presidency of our country. More Americans voted for Gore than for Bush. .. fact

But like so many things in our country, manipulation is a key component in electing the President . Its called the Electoral College, and has nothing to do with democracy.

Our country the USA- Land of the conditioned -Home of the hypocrite.

Respectfully dude

Galactic Cannibal

The problem of shortages of medical staff goes back to the early 1990's when the then Tory Government virtually wiped out the Service Medical Services. The period of Brown as Chancellor with ever reducing funding for the Services has not helped, Blair throwing troops into action willy nilly has been the final straw and in reality politicians do not like to consider facts and talk about casualties.

#1 The MOD is a lot worse than the PEntagon and Des Browne is a lot worse than Donald Rumsfeld etc - the MOD take years to get proper kit eg armour to Iraq and Afghanistan yet Browne and that ned Ingram chase the civil sevant vote by complimenting them-remmebr MOD lies over the Cockpit video. Brown and Blair bear a lot of responsibility for this - they pick up the services as marketing tool when they want it and think they can throw away lives like rag doll when they are finished- however brainwashed voters in Scotland and north of England let them away with it

The way that successive governments have treated our armed forces is an absolute disgrace.

Now they send them into illegal wars and fail to look after them or their families when they are wounded or killed.

Blair's legacy is safe in the hands of the murdering Brown and his criminal gang.

But still our gullible electorate puts and keeps them in power, and rewards them royally for their perfidy and treason.

We live in a scatocracy, governed by our excreta.

It appears £150,000 has already been spent keeping a creature alive in a Glasgow hospital bed, just to keep 'the community' happy. Money that could hire a medic or two for the good of our troops. Twisted, sickening priorities from our NuLabour leaders, but not surprising.

The failure of the Government to provide sufficent medical services is Mr Brown's fault- he has continuously failed as chancellor to fund the equipment, vehicles, weapons, helicopters and specialist personnel needed for al the military operations that HE also supported use of British Troops in.

Mr Brown may be a new Prime Minister but as he keeps telling us he was our long term chancelor and look what he did to the Armed Forces, Tax Credits, Pensions, Stealth Taxes rather than medics - he should be ashamed of putiing troops in harms way without proper support - and so should we for allowing it to go on.

Conservatives under their Goddess Thatcher, which they still venerate to this day started the rot in our military and it has continued ever since, and as it is proveing the cold war is not really over and we should have kept our military at cold war levels, short of pulling all of our troops out of the engagements they are involved in and concentrating our small limited resources on one conflict at a time, because if they don't they will be calling up our reservists just to man our bases back here which means our troops will be on permanent deployment to conflicts around the world, with our limited resources including medics which are vital to our troops survival our military would just collapse.

+Grizz 12

- Perhaps it was Churchill's Fault or Pitt the Youngers - surely your favourite Labour Party Government for the past 10 years must take some responsibility for the state of the Armed Forces and their overstretch.

The Labour Government in which Mr Brown has been No2 for the past 10 years they sent them to fight in two places when they couldn't support them properly - Not Mrs Thatcher.

Medics presently staffing NHS Direct and NHS 24 should be released to assist the Army shortage. They may be doing more harm than good where they are at present. See my Comment 3 under item "NHS lowers bar for recruits" elsewhere in this editoin.

+Phil 13
to answer your question i have never supported labour as i think they are just as much to blame as the conservatives,i'll give you another answer to to the Thatcher question (The Falklands) if it was'nt for the Americans we would have toiled there as well she did start the rot in our military buy turning them into another Plc full of penpushers and desk jockeys our military should be given the best kind of support and the equipment available to do their job and that includes training as well, never again should this be a problem our military should face.I'm SNP supporter and proud of it and ex -Army and as i still have family still in the forces and friends still in, it is something that is close to my heart and always will be.

I spent forty years in the army and I can assure that this problem is not a new one.We had for many years no doctors,untrained staff and it was a bigger threat going to see a medic than standing on the front line.

16. Dragonhead

Glad to agree with you, entirely.

T..A. Soldiers have been turned away from serving abroad because of bad teeth, if they want you to serve abroad surely army Dentist's should be sorting your teeth before you go,the MOD want them to go away get their teeth sorted at the individual Soldiers expense basically they want you to pay to fight for your country,or is the Army that short of Dentists,if they are that short send them to RAF or NAVY Dentists. No surprise the Government trying to fight a war on the cheap.I think our new nuclear weapons programme should be put on the back burner for now and make do with the ones we have already and use the money for something else.Like giving our military decent kit.

#20
As far as I'm aware there are no military dentists anymore, certainly not based in UK. Serving personnel in UK have to go to an NHS dentist. As for Medical Officers...so few and far between these days because the medical provision has been cut back so much. Another reason for me to continue to persuade my family member to leave the army and take one of the cushy numbers he's continually offered in civvie street.

And Labour closed all the military hospitals leaving returned wounded with inadequate NHS care and military staff with no career path.

Should, heaven forfend, there be more civilian bomb victims them the trauma skills of military doctors would be a Godsend

And we can keep the bomber alive with lots of money spent on his care for what?
For human rights lawyers to crawl out of the woodwork and defend him??
It was'nt an 'alleged crime 'he was seen to do it by hundreds of witnesses.
He should be deported now to his country of origin and let their medics take on the task. As if they would!!

I don't much care if the war is illegal, undeclared or what ever. If a country send their military into harm's then that government should make sure that they have the best medical program available to be to take care of them. No excuses accepted.

As for the veterans that need continued medical or physcological treatments that should also always be available to them. No excues or budget cutbacks accepted.

#6 Galactic Canibal. Also remember that Lincoln, or JFK would have won the president either, plus some others. For more information study the making of the constitution. This not the thread to go into that.

Oops sorry missed a word on#26.

I said that Lincoln or JFK would have won, should have read would NOT have won. Thank you.

National newspapers are reporting today that a MOD adminstrator got £414,000 for repetitive strain injury ( no doubt surfing /shoppoing on line at the office when no t off sick) while Soldiers who lose sight, limbs etc get £18,500 - New Labour beholden to civil service unions for you and two very poor Defence Secretary's John Reid and Des Brown each of whom has no sense of decency

Hardly suprising that there is a shortage of Docters in the Military given the recent lucrative salary and bonus awarded to civilian GPs by this incompetent
labour Goverment .

I was against this conflict in Iraq But are troops need best Medical staff the expensive is nothing amount of soldiers who have died out in Iraq
The Government thought this was going short war.
Now they know the problems the cost of "Agency Staff" Bombing in Iraq and many of Medical staff have left the country. This is the problem a peace conference only way out of this problems the cost going up and up every day.

I recently left the RAF Medical Services after 31 years loyal service. I exercised my right to PVR 6 years early (signed on to age 55) and am now working as an Offshore Medic (more pay and less pressure). Why did I leave early? I became disillusioned with the way the Services, particularly the RAF were being managed. Lack of funding, equipment, resources, manpower, restraints on training and an ever increasing workload with no reduction in the operational tempo (overseas or at home) all have an impact. Having reached the rank of Warrant Officer, I have honestly never seen the RAF morale decrease so quickly in a relatively short period across the force (to mention the RAF Regt & Engineers as examples). As a former member of the RAFMS, yes they too are strapped especially in Primary Health Care. Unfortunately, if some of my former colleagues think its 'hard' now, I think they are in for a fright very soon! If it wasn't for expensive locum doctors plugging the gaps at home bases they would be stuffed! Some flying bases are lucky if they have 1 uniformed Medical Officer at all. Not to mention the humble Med Asst or Duty Medic working long hours for a relatively modest wage. I would also like to point out to Subrosa (No 22) that Military dentists do still exist having looked after my gnashers for many years. Also Navvy (No 23) it wasn't Labour that commenced the closure of military hospitals but the Conservative Government under Defence Cost Study 15. Nevertheless the point is successive governments have been cashing-in cheques on the Loyalty and Commitment of the Armed Forces, and frankly quite a lot, especially in the Medical Services are 'tired of it'. Remember loyalty is a two-way steet. Daily events in Iraq & AFG don't help the recruiters one bit. Thankyou for taking the time to read this.

Better start getting another generation of doctors ready to meet the consequences of this:

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1182482007

Our serviceman deserve the highest standards of care both at home and abroad. It is shameful that first class medical facilities are not available.

Gordan Brown has a duty of care - where is this care?

Members of parliament are very well paid - plus generous expenses - each and every MP should donate a percentage of their earnings to the members of our armed services who are incapacitated - refusal will reveal they have no conscience - after all who sanctioned this illegal war?

Such donations not to be taxed!

Most concerned

Ken Rogers

#31--Rock Doc---""I recently left the RAF Medical Services after 31 years loyal service""

then, you are the most qualified, with credentials, to scream & holler & shake-up the fat/cats, in & out of the military, to get these soldiers the services they need......make waves!!...ruffle feathers!!...bring them to their knees!!!

No 1 & No 6; absolutely right. It is criminal that soldiers (men and women) went in on this invasion under-supplied - - nothing seems to have changed. They deserve the best if they are there to die for the United Kingdom and the United States. They don't even have decent hospitals for the injured; we recently found out how bad the Veterans Hospitals are in America - - it is shameful.

#35--"Scotty"---agreed, w/one exception...we recently found out how #18-building of Walter Reed Army hospital was run.....one building out of that huge hospital complex....that was a disgrace & is being taken care of..........the Commission hasn't reported others, & i suspect they won't...you know we have very good Veterans hospitals here..at least i hope you know....so unless you have specifics, a link perhaps?, don't give the impression all Veterans hospitals are bad here...thanks:)

I suggest that the lives of British troops are being placed in risk because of the UK government's insistence in fighting an illegal war and the sooner the troops come home the better it will be for all.

We've come a long way from Grandfather's days in the British Army. He joined as 15-yr old bugler sent to NW Frontier, Injah in 1907, 2nd Bttn, West Yorks - the Old and Bold - served there before Regt posted to Malta for garrison duty. Aug '14. Regt then shipped to France in same month.

He was an "Old Contemptible": Association # 8650 (his regimental #). The only picture I have of him is when he was a CSM and it shows him wearing 3 wound stripes on his tunic sleeve. It was taken in early 1918. He received his fourth and final wound at the Battle of Cambrai in Aug' 18., a shell splinter in the back that eventally necessitated the removal of his left lung.

He always marvelled at the fact that he survived the wound, the trip to the casualty clearing station, the French hospital and the trip back to Blighty.

He had nothing but admiration for the RAMC chaps in the field but nothing but contempt for those who served in the large hospitals. He said that the title RAMC stood for Rob All My COmrades!!

Nothing to do with today's issue which though is depressing is not surprising but just thought I would ad a bit of historical perspective.

And I agree with Sandy USA - for your soldier's sake - start rattling the cages of these political REMFs.

Given the choice of earning £100,000+ in general practice or serving in the army the real surprise is that they actually have doctors willing to serve in the army.

All who advocate properly staffing the medical, dental & ancillary services of the armed services of the UK & USA have spoken well. I wonder if this topic will ever be addressed at "Question Time" in the UK when the House of Commons meets. "Question Time" is carried by some US TV stations. I watch it. It would be enlightening to hear how such a question would be answered.
I have no hope of seeing US legislators addressing the problem.
As for the troops-perhaps prayer does some good.
There does not appear to be any relief coming from the politicians.
When one is wounded in battle- the US forces award the wounded trooper a decoration called the Purple Heart. Both the USA & the UK give all troops the purple shaft constantly.

#42) That is an, "ABOMINATION"; according to
Leviticus.
Also, what has that got to do with shortages
in the British Army, with regards to, too few
Medics/Corpman to come to the assistance
of our wounded and dying Hero's?

42 - and yer point is ?

Once again it's the puir bloody squaddies who cop it.

~31 Thank you for the information about dentists. I know my family member who is presently serving in UK and also moving between the two current theatres has to visit an HNS dentist when in UK. I appreciate your superior knowledge though but perhaps the RAF and Army have different schedules regarding this. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong :)

Ooops sorry I should have typed NHS dentist. My apologies. Meanwhile may I thank 31 for his most informative post. I too benefitted for some years from army dentistry which is far superior to what is provided today in civvie street.

It seems there has been a such a shortage of personnel and equipment and we must blame Bush's puppet Blair. I think perhaps the biggest problem was probably shortage of brains (our politicians').

#42 - you're a sick, sick puupy.

sandy
as usual you are way off the mark! the public in britain were told the usual lies. the politicians say a headline but it never means the real story is being fullfilled. they say things like ;safety is paramount! but never say I say safety is paramount. that would mean they are telling the truth, but that is never their intention. being truthful as a politician is not going to happen with our and your self- interest politicians.

#1, #6, Galactic is starting to truly write like Galactic has an education. Wow.

#13, if missy Thatcher had not been in bed with Ronnie Reagan, your statement might have been true. But we know Ronnie stole an election by brainwashing the American Public via a media takeover and democratic party smear campaign headed by Coors and gang in Colorado. It was Bimbo Ronnie who, out of the blue, in a climate of world peace polcy, decided to doo a little Red White and Blue muscle flexing, under the guise of "return to religion" which stirred up un-necessary dust in places no so favorable to Reagans brand of fundamentalism. This is Reagans fault and the fault of all the idiots who kissed Reagans A$$, including Margie baby, and all the fools who let the Republicans take office even after Reagan "cleaned-up" government by being the biggest taker homer of a pot of bacon (Star Wars) in USA history under the guise of military spending which was in reality military industry spending, while starving the ground forces of long overdue due. When the British PMs stop having sex with the Conservative party of America, British politics just may start to make some sense.

Expensive short-term contracts to plug gaps at home. How about using some of the doctors that are treating & trying to keep the glascow airport attack "suspect" alive. I would think care for the soldiers would seem alot more important than for a "suspected" terrorist!

#50 - Dragonhead -

Step off your soapbox.

You didn't really understand - or want to - my posting.

By the way - that is the second time you have tried crudely tried to describe my nickname - in the most parochial way.

So my bombastic and self-indulgent chum - let me put in terms you can only understand - if my nickname is the receptacle then you gotta be the contents!

Oh by the way, please top using this site for your pathetic musings.

What else can one expect from New Labour's pathetic amateurs most of whom wouldn't get a job in a supermarket, stocking the empty shelves. Browne; the gormless looking one (how many more of them are there) is another Christian believer; so he claimed on BBC.
Now wonder so many Churches have become Bingo Halls over the past few years when most Christian nutters seem to seek refuge in Brown's Champagne socialist New Labour Party.
Are the voters in the UK really that thick to keep electing these dreadful sham characters; especially those from politically radical Ayrshire?