So , Frank Glancy and Terry Morton , the two "booze fags and mags" shop owners asked by your hack, are calling for a change in the law.

This is very poor even by your own rather lax standards EEN !

Right so along with stopping terrorists, it is the only way to stop kids buying fags!! IF you think they are too young DON'T sell them. If they look young and you don't sell them, even if they are of age, what difference would that make? Too many " corner shops" sell anything to anyone regardless of the law, what's going to change?

That,ll be the ID cards kids can buy on the internet for a couple of pounds. So at 16 they can marry, have kids but not buy fags. More unworkable legislation that is virtually unenforceable, jeez they get there booze easy enough. Whilst i applaud efforts to discourage youngsters from smoking we really dont need more laws to justify Holyroods existence.

#3 Would you also scrap the 16 age limit for buying fags as it is unenforceable?

Why not just ban the sale of cigarettes altogether? It's a totally anti-social habit and costs the NHS millions every year because people inflict illness onto themselves. Seriously though, if a few of the big supermarkets had the bottle to say enough is enough and we won't be selling tobacco products any more....I'd be giving them my total support and probably spending a few quid extra just because what they were doing was a positive thing.

#5 - The reason why they don't ban it outright is the same as with most aspects of this issue: money. Rather than cost the NHS money smokers pay in 5 times as much as they cost to treat. To the tune of 10 Billion in fact.

Why not just ban the sale of ALCOHOL altogether? It's a totally anti-social habit and costs the NHS millions every year because people inflict illness onto themselves. Seriously though, if a few of the big supermarkets had the bottle to say enough is enough and we won't be selling ALCOHOLIC products any more....I'd be giving them my total support and probably spending a few quid extra just because what they were doing was a positive thing.

Because the earn too much money from booze bernard.

To all the capnaphobes out there, you may be interested in this: http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=33...

'Who needs fags'
said a skinhead Gentleman in tight fitting jeans outside Ladbrokes yesterday.

#5 - should we ban food as well since some people eat too much of it and end up fat? they cost the NHS a fortune each year and are still allowed to eat inside!

ID cards would be very useful - I used to work as a barmaid and we were always having problems with people using fake ID. a universal card would be effective. People need to be more tolerant towards those checking their ID - I got heaps of abuse from people when I asked to check their age. in America you expect to get asked for ID for drink if you look under 30 so everyone carries it and accepts it as part of their culture.

#11 - nobody wants to carry their birth certificate as there's a high risk it could be stolen (all those police out catching underagers rather than the thieves!)

There's nothing to stop my 16yo son using my 21yo son's birth certificate as identification.

A birth certificate is not proof of ID or age. Anyone can go to Register House and buy a copy of anyones birth certificate. The only workable form of ID is some sort of photo ID.

Oh Gawd, here we go again.

Last time I looked I didn’t see ASH on any of the voting forms. Did they put up the £500 without us knowing it? Also:

Anyone out there know of a country that I can retire to and live my life as I see fit, preferably someplace with a modicum of liberty and freedom?

Also (again):

HELP……..
LOST……..
Goes by the name of FREEDOM
Last seen near the Scottish Parliament
Hasn’t been since.

who actualy buys fags from a shop these days anyway with the £5 tag for 20. ive been smoking since i was 12 and since then ive never had an issue in 18 years with buying them although ill stick to paying half that amount from the old bootleg bargains wink wink

I'm with Eddie D, are ASH accepting public donations
for research? or to head up a campaign?. Surely this sort of involvement at least to this extent is not a "charitable activity" seems to me that they may be operating ouside their remit.
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/registeredcharities/s...

Why not just ban BIGOTRY altogether? It's a totally anti-social habit and costs a massive amount in wasted energy every year because people inflict it onto themselves as they are totally unable to accept other people if they act, think or disagree with them. Seriously though, does this type of behaviour remind enyone of another movement - the nazi's? If you do not do as we say or think as we think, we will wipe you off the face of the world. Perhaps a harsh analogy, but apt, because these anti's are trying to make us feel just as unclean and unworthy as non arians were made to feel. We do not want to associate with this type of person, we just want equal rights and the freedom to choose!

Yeah right..So the illicit tobacco dealers,to be found on almost market stall in england,every inner city corner shop,every jack the lad whos out to make his fortune,by selling hookey goods,and drugs is going to care less who they sell to,or their age..quite honestly tobacco is not the problem..its the crazy new laws are the problem, grasping at straws springs to mind from this Fashist state.

#14 Eddie I didnt think that charities were supposed to be involved in politics but ASH are and they are joined up with SCOTH. There are members of ASH who are also members of SCOTH. To whom are they responsible, the big pharmacueticals that pay them. See below they are raking it in at other peoples expense. Check out Prof Martin Jarvis for one

http://www.advisorybodies.doh.gov.uk/scoth/members.htm

The thin end of the wedge. ID cards for fags, then for drinking, then for what?? - everything. The Labour government wants ID Cards, so what kind of reporting do you expect we will get from this rag.

# 20.... The following just about sums it up and confirms the point you make in your post......

"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights
and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed"

- Adolf Hitler

If kids want to buy fags and booze they should be able to pay for an id card to let them,otherwise they don't get served.

I think that this is ridiculous. When you are 16 you are legal age to smoke but now they are trying to say you are not going to be able to buy them. Where do they stop.?

22, Donnie, this from ASH audited accounts 31/03/06

(a) This project provides an information base and communications to support further progress on tobacco control policy and smoking cessation following on from the White Paper "Smoking Kills". The Department of Health made a Section 64 grant of £180,000 to this project. Hands up! who was/is waiting for urgent treatment? and being told there's no money for the NHS? that's carried then?

I wonder why the NHS is going tits up- perhaps with all these antismoking waste of money!

29, Chuckles, yep! I am AMAZED at the number of tolerant non smokers who are in a word furious at the forthcoming ban, they realise that when they go out socialising once or twice a week many of their friends may be smokers, so the ban will crap all over their social life as well. It's not rocket science to see the damage this will do to businesses, communties, and FRIENDS!!!!! their friends will be "social outcasts" the smoking "figures" will drop because surveys will show not so many out smoking (they'll be at home) smoking "smuggled" stuff if ONLY, HMG would put as much money into helping the hospitality industry to invest in high quality ventilation systems and stop smuggling they just might get some support. Stay safe Scotland the brave.

30. Eddie, my latest info is that 200 pubs are on the case, this will make the poll tax rebellion look like playtime. The tolerant non smokers are being very kind/supportive, I'm amazed!. Maybe this paper will be brave enough to investigate further, a rerun of a poll? how many non smokers will suffer by not being able to socialise in their local with their smoking friends "just come round to mine" with some cheap tinnies. It must be very much the case already in Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Odd though England the "gobby is the last.

national id cards are a danger to our civil liberties
they should be opposed at every opportunity.
people who are 18 and are likely to be asked for identification to buy cigarettes etc should carry some form of id eg drivers liscence, shopkeepes who sell to underage children should have their shop closed

33. James, they (kids) GRT "big kids" to buy 20 keep ten, as with alcohol, it's called a proxy purchase, but the "seller" gets the slap.
eg kids nick some tins from dad's stash at home, get told to piss off from mine, are picked up drunk, tell cops last place they've been is mine, = 20 questions. This is where it's at and your pub gets bad press. Licence holder!

Eddie, ASH are a political charity (just googled) so why have Cancer research donated money to them.
I will no longer give to research or foundations.
Are these ID cards a step nearer to what HMG want us to have?
The 16 year olds will find a way around it, hopefully it will not be from Joe Bloggs in the street selling dodgy ones.
I would never promote children smoking or anyone else, but it is for them to decide, it is their choice.
Any ID card could be forged surely, like passports.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The sooner they bring in ID card sthe better. The sooner I'll be able to hack and copy them (and then leave it lying at home).

Who cares about ID cards or indeed any form of identity check - they are so easy to copy. Same with the trial of satellite detectors fitted to cars (being developed and trialled by IBM) - so (allegedly) we can be charged by the mile - however the real agenda is to track the population - Jeez - we've already managed to crack these and they aren't even fully marketed yet !!!

The police state has no chance of keeping up with the hackers........................

Truly - Hack the planet !!

So we have a new state police being formed,, 'The Grocers', along with the 'Publicans' ...perhaps we should extend this policy by making them wear uniforms..My 16 year old daughter has been smoking for the past year, I don't want that, but unlike 'The State' I have no intention of alienating or disowning my own child. If I buy her cigarettes,,, would that make me, a criminal or 'a drug dealer'... or do I just leave her to the 'seedy street people'???. She says she is not concerned about this legislation, she will get past it she explains.. Clearly the 16 year olds are smart enough to overcome this small problem. Thanks ASH for another one of your great, failed 'social engineering' experiments. You have demonised and alienated the adults, particularly the elderly and disabled, the softer targets of compliance and now you're targeting our kids.
ASH and all their sinister sponsors are a despicable organisation and their relationship with both this and the previous Holyrood junta is all very dubious???.

I would ask if there are any independent Investigative Journalists out there prepared to fully investigate 'this right wing unelected fascist group undermining all the freedoms many have in the past have given their lives for.
Obviously, following ASH'S statements, our 16yr olds that are caught smoking a fag are dealing with rogue elements, and their life is in danger from the smoke.. Get real!!!
Perhaps Frau Maureen Moore IC (Iron Cross) should be perhaps be more concerned about the 'crack' and all the other horrible substances as opposed to 'the fag'. Clearly hard vocational work is not Maureen's job, especially at her time of life. ASH pay her well, look at all the money they get,, dealing with the real menaces doesnt bring in the big cash..
Someone said to me that if we follow the cash we will get nearer to the truth.
Of course the cocaine that is so predominant on the streets is ok,, 'Cat

#16

Oops, Sorry, meant to say:

HELP……..
LOST……..
Goes by the name of FREEDOM
Last seen near the Scottish Parliament
Hasn’t been seen since.

Stef, I agree with all you say, but SS might be more appropriate than IC which was meant to be awarded for valour.

Someone sent me this this mornining, thought I'd share it with you all.
Obituary
The Very Sad Passing of Common Sense

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old common sense was since the birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
Common sense will be remembered as having cultivated valuable lessons such as knowing when to come out of the rain, why the early bird catches the worm, that life isn't always fair and that just maybe it was my fault. Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults not children are in charge). Common Sense's health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place....Reports of a six year old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing his classmate, teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student , only worsened his condition.
Common sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer panadol, sun lotion or sticky plasters to a student, but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from an intruder in your own home and the burglar got the right to sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live after a woman working in her office failed to realise that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled some in her lap and was promptly awar

S,G. #37
Well said and how true it is.
Perhaps it might sink into the tiny and unreceptive minds of "you know who".
If the cap fits, wear it.

The only thing I hate worse than smokers is all these damned gingers cutting around, when's the executive going to do something about THAT??